The Syndicate

Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 10:53 am What if there is modposter in this game.... but that would be bastard though... never mind.m

that would be hilarious.
Also, it's a role that I dream of randing.
It might lead to too much fun, however.

@Sloonei I'd shoot Garden Gnome.

Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 11:13 am @Sloonei I'd shoot Garden Gnome.

Are you scum reading Sloonei?

Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 11:14 am

Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 11:13 am @Sloonei I'd shoot Garden Gnome.

Are you scum reading Sloonei?

No. I'm townreading you and if what i think it's correct, i'd be negating scum an easy mischop. Forcing them to kill a lurking inno child (you) at night than a town leading voice.

Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 11:18 am

Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 11:14 am

Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 11:13 am @Sloonei I'd shoot Garden Gnome.

Are you scum reading Sloonei?

No. I'm townreading you and if what i think it's correct, i'd be negating scum an easy mischop. Forcing them to kill a lurking inno child (you) at night than a town leading voice.

Oh, all right! Understood.

And if you are scum Gnome then it's good for us too. It's a win-win

Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 11:20 am And if you are scum Gnome then it's good for us too. It's a win-win

Agreed.

Gnomey my casual bae, I’m going to wait for Sloonei to make his choice before I consider our agreement

@Sloonei I suggest using your shot with at least 12 hours left in the day or so. We’ll need time to regroup and reorient the poll. Maybe even earlier depending on your own schedule.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 11:23 am Gnomey my casual bae, I’m going to wait for Sloonei to make his choice before I consider our agreement

Oh, you are in my heart, even if just casually.
The tea will be hot and ready for you.

Sloonei is going to have 13 notifications of me tagging him.

Im thinking the poisoner is 3P with unlimited shots, and town/mafia roles are all one shots.
Hawk was town healer and Martin is the mafia healer who either fake claimed to have tried to save town!alison, or attempted to actually save scum!alison.

I an working all day today, so we won’t have me shooting for quite some time.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 11:57 am I an working all day today, so we won’t have me shooting for quite some time.

All right! Have a good day!
I'm going out now to help repaint a mural!!!

I want everyone to continue telling me who they think I should shoot.

Remember that I die if I’m wrong, so my target should be the safest; the person most likely to flip mafia. Do not volunteer to be shot yourself. Do not give me your deepwolf tinfoil suspects. I want to know who everybody believes has the highest chance of being on the mafia team.

I will shoot with plenty of time left on the clock for people to adjust their reads and votes accordingly before the deadline.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 12:12 pm I want everyone to continue telling me who they think I should shoot.

Remember that I die if I’m wrong, so my target should be the safest; the person most likely to flip mafia. Do not volunteer to be shot yourself. Do not give me your deepwolf tinfoil suspects. I want to know who everybody believes has the highest chance of being on the mafia team.

I will shoot with plenty of time left on the clock for people to adjust their reads and votes accordingly before the deadline.

And if you tell me who you’d shoot without giving any reasons, imagine i’m here and asking “why?”

And also if someone could @me with the new claims on the board, that’d be super. Don’t have time to go looking for them now.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 8:47 am [VOTE: Jay] aubergine

Sheeping Bad Bunny's read.

this is the first time ive been sheeped in my life omg :O

bad bunny wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 8:24 am Mafia being a backup in this situation is a bit weird, because if they become a desperado then its suicide or dont shoot right? That seems weird mechanically. So would this mean Sloonei is likely town for being a backup or not?

Universal backup can only inherit a role from their own faction.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 8:24 am

Alison wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 8:23 am does anyone have a coherent argument for not shooting orangecrush beyond "their extremely qualified readslist was good" and "they didn't talk as much so we don't get as much spew if they flip red"?

they asked to be shot

I don't think this is a good reason to think Orange shouldn't be shot. If Orange is in their first game as mafia, I think this is a very natural reaction. Scum!Orange obviously doesn't want to be shot, but would realize that if they look too desparate to not be shot, they will look like mafia, so they try to look like they don't mind being shot.

Not saying this points to Scum!Orange, but I think anyone asking to be shot is 1.) anti-town, and 2.) NAI, so IMO it does not fit into an arguement for not shooting Orange.

Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 1:12 pm

bad bunny wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 8:24 am Mafia being a backup in this situation is a bit weird, because if they become a desperado then its suicide or dont shoot right? That seems weird mechanically. So would this mean Sloonei is likely town for being a backup or not?

Universal backup can only inherit a role from their own faction.

I think you should not just assume all the roles are exactly the roles you are familiar with. Universal backup can do whatever Marmot and Dizzy allow them to do, so this assumption is dubious.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 1:31 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 1:12 pm

bad bunny wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 8:24 am Mafia being a backup in this situation is a bit weird, because if they become a desperado then its suicide or dont shoot right? That seems weird mechanically. So would this mean Sloonei is likely town for being a backup or not?

Universal backup can only inherit a role from their own faction.

I think you should not just assume all the roles are exactly the roles you are familiar with. Universal backup can do whatever Marmot and Dizzy allow them to do, so this assumption is dubious.

Universal backups can only inherit roles from their own factions in normal games, PERIOD!!

This is mot a bastard game so it applies.

So from what I can tell the collective shot pool is essentially

{Actv, Allcrab, Gnome, Made, Martin, OC}

To take a leaf out of JJJ's book, perhaps better than trying to say who SHOULD be shot here, lets try to figure out who shouldn't. I personally think Made is risky, so I'd remove him from the shot pool, and I know a lot of others have said Martin is probably town, so he is reasonable to remove as well

{Actv,Allcrab,Gnome,OC}

I think Gnome is a crapshoot at best.

{Actv, Allcrab, OC}

I still think OC is the best choice. I am kind of paranoid about Allcrab right now though, and I'm not sure how others are feeling about him, so good question for the thread:

Should Allcrab be in the shot pool?

(note, I am not asking if Allcrab should be shot necessarily, I'm asking something weaker: if he fits with Actv and OC in a small shot pool)

Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 1:36 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 1:31 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 1:12 pm

bad bunny wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 8:24 am Mafia being a backup in this situation is a bit weird, because if they become a desperado then its suicide or dont shoot right? That seems weird mechanically. So would this mean Sloonei is likely town for being a backup or not?

Universal backup can only inherit a role from their own faction.

I think you should not just assume all the roles are exactly the roles you are familiar with. Universal backup can do whatever Marmot and Dizzy allow them to do, so this assumption is dubious.

Universal backups can only inherit roles from their own factions in normal games, PERIOD!!

This is mot a bastard game so it applies.

Please link me to the TS page where it says this.

I didnt know The Syndicate had a page?

If we go to MS which most hosts refer to get info about running roles, we'll find the definitions for Universal Backups in NORMAL games:

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... sal_Backup

If this game was bastard i would consider it, as well as i'd consider a modposter and a torturer, but im playing the game as advertised by the hosts, not bastard.

If the game turns out to be bastard then we never had a chance.

Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 1:48 pm I didnt know The Syndicate had a page?

If we go to MS which most hosts refer to get info about running roles, we'll find the definitions for Universal Backups in NORMAL games:

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... sal_Backup

They don't, that's my point. You're making faulty assumptions about what is considered "bastard".

To use your own reference, under "variations", they clearly mention that a universal backup could be designed which inherits power roles from either side. If you think all role variants are bastard... well your definition of bastard would not fit with what I think almost everyone else uses to describe bastard.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 1:54 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 1:48 pm I didnt know The Syndicate had a page?

If we go to MS which most hosts refer to get info about running roles, we'll find the definitions for Universal Backups in NORMAL games:

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... sal_Backup

They don't, that's my point. You're making faulty assumptions about what is considered "bastard".

To use your own reference, under "variations", they clearly mention that a universal backup could be designed which inherits power roles from either side. If you think all role variants are bastard... well your definition of bastard would not fit with what I think almost everyone else uses to describe bastard.

BRUH! UNDER VARIATIONS IT SAYS OUTSIDE OF NORMAL GAMES yada yada yada

Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 1:50 pm If this game was bastard i would consider it, as well as i'd consider a modposter and a torturer, but im playing the game as advertised by the hosts, not bastard.

If the game turns out to be bastard then we never had a chance.

Also, Sloonei indicated that they have a choice of which role they choose, so unless Sloonei is just lying, the role they have does not fit the role on MS's wiki.

Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 1:57 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 1:54 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 1:48 pm I didnt know The Syndicate had a page?

If we go to MS which most hosts refer to get info about running roles, we'll find the definitions for Universal Backups in NORMAL games:

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... sal_Backup

They don't, that's my point. You're making faulty assumptions about what is considered "bastard".

To use your own reference, under "variations", they clearly mention that a universal backup could be designed which inherits power roles from either side. If you think all role variants are bastard... well your definition of bastard would not fit with what I think almost everyone else uses to describe bastard.

BRUH! UNDER VARIATIONS IT SAYS OUTSIDE OF NORMAL GAMES yada yada yada

Sure, but the "normal games" thing is a MS defined term, not a universally recognized mafia thing. You're being hardheaded.

Can we just chop Guillo? I'm kind of done with him.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 1:58 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 1:50 pm If this game was bastard i would consider it, as well as i'd consider a modposter and a torturer, but im playing the game as advertised by the hosts, not bastard.

If the game turns out to be bastard then we never had a chance.

Also, Sloonei indicated that they have a choice of which role they choose, so unless Sloonei is just lying, the role they have does not fit the role on MS's wiki.

Seanzie, mafia cannot inherit Desperado because it forces them to either shoot town commiting suicide and then revealing its flip as mafia, or having to play against their wincon and shoot one of their own. Or if there is a inno child in the game, mafia cannot inherit that role then post to the thread for mod confirmation, forcing the hosts to lie to us. Only in bastard games that could happen.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 1:59 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 1:57 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 1:54 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 1:48 pm I didnt know The Syndicate had a page?

If we go to MS which most hosts refer to get info about running roles, we'll find the definitions for Universal Backups in NORMAL games:

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... sal_Backup

They don't, that's my point. You're making faulty assumptions about what is considered "bastard".

To use your own reference, under "variations", they clearly mention that a universal backup could be designed which inherits power roles from either side. If you think all role variants are bastard... well your definition of bastard would not fit with what I think almost everyone else uses to describe bastard.

BRUH! UNDER VARIATIONS IT SAYS OUTSIDE OF NORMAL GAMES yada yada yada

Sure, but the "normal games" thing is a MS defined term, not a universally recognized mafia thing. You're being hardheaded.

Can we just chop Guillo? I'm kind of done with him.

Dont chop me, shoot me with the desperado shot instead. What do you think?

Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 1:59 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 1:57 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 1:54 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 1:48 pm I didnt know The Syndicate had a page?

If we go to MS which most hosts refer to get info about running roles, we'll find the definitions for Universal Backups in NORMAL games:

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... sal_Backup

They don't, that's my point. You're making faulty assumptions about what is considered "bastard".

To use your own reference, under "variations", they clearly mention that a universal backup could be designed which inherits power roles from either side. If you think all role variants are bastard... well your definition of bastard would not fit with what I think almost everyone else uses to describe bastard.

BRUH! UNDER VARIATIONS IT SAYS OUTSIDE OF NORMAL GAMES yada yada yada

Sure, but the "normal games" thing is a MS defined term, not a universally recognized mafia thing. You're being hardheaded.

Can we just chop Guillo? I'm kind of done with him.

Seanzie. Mafia Scum is universally recognized. It is the oldest forum mafia board in the planet. It's like the bible of mafia.

Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 2:02 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 1:58 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 1:50 pm If this game was bastard i would consider it, as well as i'd consider a modposter and a torturer, but im playing the game as advertised by the hosts, not bastard.

If the game turns out to be bastard then we never had a chance.

Also, Sloonei indicated that they have a choice of which role they choose, so unless Sloonei is just lying, the role they have does not fit the role on MS's wiki.

Seanzie, mafia cannot inherit Desperado because it forces them to either shoot town commiting suicide and then revealing its flip as mafia, or having to play against their wincon and shoot one of their own. Or if there is a inno child in the game, mafia cannot inherit that role then post to the thread for mod confirmation, forcing the hosts to lie to us. Only in bastard games that could happen.

I don't disagree with you, but that isn't what you said. You said that universal backups can only inherit roles from the same faction as them. It is not at all clear that this is the case here. I'm done talking about this though because it doesn't matter for the situation at hand.

If it wasnt because he hard pushed Owner for her yeet, going out of their way to yeet her, i'd think Seanzie is scum.

Maybe Seanzie is the hellbusser.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 2:09 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 2:02 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 1:58 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 1:50 pm If this game was bastard i would consider it, as well as i'd consider a modposter and a torturer, but im playing the game as advertised by the hosts, not bastard.

If the game turns out to be bastard then we never had a chance.

Also, Sloonei indicated that they have a choice of which role they choose, so unless Sloonei is just lying, the role they have does not fit the role on MS's wiki.

Seanzie, mafia cannot inherit Desperado because it forces them to either shoot town commiting suicide and then revealing its flip as mafia, or having to play against their wincon and shoot one of their own. Or if there is a inno child in the game, mafia cannot inherit that role then post to the thread for mod confirmation, forcing the hosts to lie to us. Only in bastard games that could happen.

I don't disagree with you, but that isn't what you said. You said that universal backups can only inherit roles from the same faction as them. It is not at all clear that this is the case here. I'm done talking about this though because it doesn't matter for the situation at hand.

Universal Backups can only inherit roles from their own faction, again, PERIOD.

Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 2:06 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 1:59 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 1:57 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 1:54 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 1:48 pm I didnt know The Syndicate had a page?

If we go to MS which most hosts refer to get info about running roles, we'll find the definitions for Universal Backups in NORMAL games:

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... sal_Backup

They don't, that's my point. You're making faulty assumptions about what is considered "bastard".

To use your own reference, under "variations", they clearly mention that a universal backup could be designed which inherits power roles from either side. If you think all role variants are bastard... well your definition of bastard would not fit with what I think almost everyone else uses to describe bastard.

BRUH! UNDER VARIATIONS IT SAYS OUTSIDE OF NORMAL GAMES yada yada yada

Sure, but the "normal games" thing is a MS defined term, not a universally recognized mafia thing. You're being hardheaded.

Can we just chop Guillo? I'm kind of done with him.

Seanzie. Mafia Scum is universally recognized. It is the oldest forum mafia board in the planet. It's like the bible of mafia.

So do you think this is a bastard game, or do you think Sloonei is lying about being able to choose which role he inherits?

Again, you're being hardheaded. It is definitely not the case that every forum just follows MS's wiki to a T. Argument over.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 2:11 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 2:06 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 1:59 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 1:57 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 1:54 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 1:48 pm I didnt know The Syndicate had a page?

If we go to MS which most hosts refer to get info about running roles, we'll find the definitions for Universal Backups in NORMAL games:

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... sal_Backup

They don't, that's my point. You're making faulty assumptions about what is considered "bastard".

To use your own reference, under "variations", they clearly mention that a universal backup could be designed which inherits power roles from either side. If you think all role variants are bastard... well your definition of bastard would not fit with what I think almost everyone else uses to describe bastard.

BRUH! UNDER VARIATIONS IT SAYS OUTSIDE OF NORMAL GAMES yada yada yada

Sure, but the "normal games" thing is a MS defined term, not a universally recognized mafia thing. You're being hardheaded.

Can we just chop Guillo? I'm kind of done with him.

Seanzie. Mafia Scum is universally recognized. It is the oldest forum mafia board in the planet. It's like the bible of mafia.

So do you think this is a bastard game, or do you think Sloonei is lying about being able to choose which role he inherits?

Again, you're being hardheaded. It is definitely not the case that every forum just follows MS's wiki to a T. Argument over.

@Sloonei do you hardclaim Universal Backup?

@Seanzie am i being hardheaded or do you scumread me? You cant have it both ways. I need to know for once where do you stand with me. All this constant discredit of my theories and solutions from you is making me paranoid and i want to determine if this is an ego clash or if you scum trying to opaque me with openwolfing tactics.

Modern family had a backup role that could choose what role they wanted to inherit, and got all the shots of that role even if it was an x shot that was spent.

I see no reason to think sloon couldn't have that role or that it couldn't work as a town role

This entire discussion is deeply dumb, either sloon is gonna shoot (and if he's town with a shot it better be soon), or he isn't. Railing about whether this game adheres to ms definitions is a waste of everybody's time

Nutella tried to discredit me and i bagged her on day 1, with Mac's assistance.

Many will keep trying and failing.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 2:28 pm Modern family had a backup role that could choose what role they wanted to inherit, and got all the shots of that role even if it was an x shot that was spent.

I see no reason to think sloon couldn't have that role or that it couldn't work as a town role

This entire discussion is deeply dumb, either sloon is gonna shoot (and if he's town with a shot it better be soon), or he isn't. Railing about whether this game adheres to ms definitions is a waste of everybody's time

No Nook, i'd appreciate for once some support here.

I'd wait for Sloonei hard claim. I need to know the desperado shot is real,or just another reaction test gone too long.

Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 2:26 pm @Seanzie am i being hardheaded or do you scumread me? You cant have it both ways. I need to know for once where do you stand with me. All this constant discredit of my theories and solutions from you is making me paranoid and i want to determine if this is an ego clash or if you scum trying to opaque me with openwolfing tactics.

You are definitely being hardheaded, and that is independent of my thoughts on your alignment. I have you in my outer PoE. I think you have reasonable scum equity, but there are bigger things I am worried about right now.

Trust me when I say my ego is not threatened at all by yours. I've just pointed out places you are making faulty assumptions, and you don't seem to be able to accept that you can be wrong at times.

Someone kick me before I start worrying about how much of this Guillotine is doing

Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 2:32 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 2:28 pm Modern family had a backup role that could choose what role they wanted to inherit, and got all the shots of that role even if it was an x shot that was spent.

I see no reason to think sloon couldn't have that role or that it couldn't work as a town role

This entire discussion is deeply dumb, either sloon is gonna shoot (and if he's town with a shot it better be soon), or he isn't. Railing about whether this game adheres to ms definitions is a waste of everybody's time

No Nook, i'd appreciate for once some support here.

I'd wait for Sloonei hard claim. I need to know the desperado shot is real,or just another reaction test gone too long.

I think it is a super longshot to assume this is a reaction test from Sloonei.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 2:40 pm Someone kick me before I start worrying about how much of this Guillotine is doing

How much of what is Guillo?

It wouldn't surprise me if its a reaction troll from sloon to try and focus the game and he rescinds in an hour or whatever

It also wouldn't surprise me if it's real

Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 2:41 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 2:40 pm Someone kick me before I start worrying about how much of this Guillotine is doing

How much of what is Guillo?

Solving with material that can’t solve anything

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 2:41 pm It wouldn't surprise me if its a reaction troll from sloon to try and focus the game and he rescinds in an hour or whatever

It also wouldn't surprise me if it's real

You really think Sloonei would waste half a day on a reaction test?