The Syndicate

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Trust me, I already have the most difficult meta on the Internet (my own fault) to deal with as a baddie. I'm not interested in welcoming additional challenges. I am usually a successful baddie, but I get there by being quite boring. Unfortunately all I have is my word there, because there've so few recent examples of me being bad. I think the random number generator even finds me boring and doesn't give me those roles.

insertnamehere wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Quin wrote:If he's referring to 3J, marmot and Golden specifically, all of them had already claimed. I don't think controlling the conversation is something baddies 'will do', rather I think it's just a constant approach to the game. I don't really see it.

He's not talking about claiming, he's talking about them controlling/influencing the direction we take based on them being the map holder. Which, if it were going to happen... well, it would make more sense to keep quiet about it and catch them in the act, rather than blurting it outright and making sure it doesn't happen.

I'm like Tom Cruise in Minority Report. I'm trying to stop crimes BEFORE THEY EVEN HAPPEN.

But seriously, if I suspect civilians are being misled, I'm gonna say so. I'm not one to hold back until someone screws up, and complain after the fact.

Quin wrote:

Fredwood wrote:Well, if it was just the slip, there wouldn't be an issue I think. However the interaction with Silver, and the one about lady's being town Sorsha I think? (name of the player escapes me), and INH the interaction (Which I actually think Quin is correct for putting him to taks). Basically anything that flared up or was debated Quine was in the middle of it.

It's something to keep in mind not something to take as gospel. Just my experience with good players. Quin may just be the thread enforcer in general, and this probably just increases my likelihood of being scum in their eyes.

I do not understand how being something 'in general' can enforce the likelihood of being scum. Can you elaborate?

Dyslexicon wrote:This is not so much a point of suspicion to me as the logic is just bugging me. You're using hindsight here.

Golden wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:This is not so much a point of suspicion to me as the logic is just bugging me. You're using hindsight here.

Yeah, he said something like 'why would I draw golden's ire' as well, but he knows that I'm quite willing to say that someone who suspects me is doing so from a genuine town perspective if I think that they are. I'm a big opponent of the false 'if you come after me, you must be bad' logic, and I like to believe I don't fall into that trope.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Color me extremely unimpressed by Dizzy's reads.

Yeah, they're fair reads but they don't incorporate the fakeslip that much, making it a semi useless and less believable tactic.

Currently of the opinion his real slip turned into a "fake slip" and the three reads/no reads thing was done after the fact to reinforce the "fake slip."

Zebra never convinced me last game (especially given her scum role in the end) that being scummy for the sake of getting a reaction was a good idea when there are plenty of better ways to get reactions. Hard to tell pouncing scummers and pouncing townies apart when you make yourself a juicy target for both.




Proud of Fred for giving early reads. Disappointed in Fred for reading me as scum without giving reasons. Play more better. I know you can. Why do you suspect me, Fred?

Silver Lantern wrote:The Posts here don't have post #s or am I just not looking in the right spot?

Complaint # 7 JJJ!

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Golden wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:This is not so much a point of suspicion to me as the logic is just bugging me. You're using hindsight here.

Yeah, he said something like 'why would I draw golden's ire' as well, but he knows that I'm quite willing to say that someone who suspects me is doing so from a genuine town perspective if I think that they are. I'm a big opponent of the false 'if you come after me, you must be bad' logic, and I like to believe I don't fall into that trope.

I do think you return accusations upon your accusers more often than many, or at least more often than other high volume posters similar to you. It isn't meant as a criticism, just an observation of your meta. It's actually the main reason I ended my share of the discussion -- your treatment of me in response to my questioning, whether my questions were fair or not, was in line with behavior I've often seen from you (recently in particular).

Silver Lantern wrote:Can Dyslexicon please answer this question?

Long Con wrote:Dyslexicon: Is it over? Your fakeslip plan? Should we keep discussing it, or drop it and move on?

Fredwood wrote:Man, I'm dizzy, so many posts, so much arguing. That Dale Cooper flashing avatar isn't helping in the dark.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:And for my next trick, I will ignore Fred's last post.

Currently reading Silver, Jtrips as slight town, Scotty and Sorsha as slight scum. Might change those reads when I get further. Like Silver's growling at Quin. Dislike Scotty's fake read and redirect thereof. Dislike Sorsha's two almost random map nominees and defense thereof. Like Jimmy pointing it out.

Wilgy and Marmot are being amusing. Null read so far.

Caught up to this point. Still feel this way about all these players.

Feeling positive towards Fred but that may just be because I want him to play more better (i.e. more scumhunting, less waiting around for night results) and I know he's capable of playing more better cause he's a bright fellow (falling into the middle of the "clutch realmser" tier who can solve games once all the clues are out but rarely gets out there and creates the clues during the day) and I see him trying to play more better.

But does that make him a townie? "Probably" says other people. "We'll see" says me. Same for Silver but with the added fearless townie bonus.

I don't like Nachos's "okay, I've found scum" and "these folks are obviously town" posts. Like, bro, you had me fooled last game but I don't get the impression you're THAT good, know what I mean? Has Sorsha/Sonjei's problem of me only ever playing with scum Nacho (and 10 years ago over the top bulldog townie Nacho) so I can't answer "but would he do this anyway as a townie?"

Loving everything from JJJ and Nutella


Half rainbow:
GREEN
Jack
JTrips
Nut
Silver
No avatar guy. Speedchuck?
LIGHT GREEN
Quin
Fred
Golden
YELLOW
Marmot
LC
Sig
ORANGE
Sorsha
Nacho
Sonjei
That guy who looks like Scotty but isn't Scotty. Who was like "I lied about my town read"
RED
Dizzy

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Color me extremely unimpressed by Dizzy's reads.

Yeah, they're fair reads but they don't incorporate the fakeslip that much, making it a semi useless and less believable tactic.

Currently of the opinion his real slip turned into a "fake slip" and the three reads/no reads thing was done after the fact to reinforce the "fake slip."

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I'm okay with giving the newcomers a Day 1 pass. My vote is likely to land on one of the low-tier contributors. I think this has been a very good first day for dialogue, and it's left me feeling okay about most of the people who helped make that happen.

Dyslexicon wrote:

Long Con wrote:Dyslexicon: Is it over? Your fakeslip plan? Should we keep discussing it, or drop it and move on?

I mean, everything in the thread is information. I guess you should focus on what seems interesting and important to you, and thenI will judge you hard and see if you're scum for it things develop from there.

Long Con wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:

Long Con wrote:Dyslexicon: Is it over? Your fakeslip plan? Should we keep discussing it, or drop it and move on?

I mean, everything in the thread is information. I guess you should focus on what seems interesting and important to you, and thenI will judge you hard and see if you're scum for it things develop from there.

Your overall tactic with the fakeslip, then, is to send it out into the world and let it develop on its own through the eyes of others?

Dyslexicon wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I'm okay with giving the newcomers a Day 1 pass. My vote is likely to land on one of the low-tier contributors. I think this has been a very good first day for dialogue, and it's left me feeling okay about most of the people who helped make that happen.

Can you name specific names? Who's "most people"?

Dyslexicon wrote:

Spoiler: show

Strawhenge wrote:Response to Dyslexicon:

1. I flagged you but didn't vote for the same reason Jay did: to wait for your response. I did mention this, but kind of in the second degree because I was advising someone not to pile votes on you until you responded.

2. Unless the marmot has actual reason to suspect me, I wouldn't read into his vote for me too deeply. He and I have history: in the Talking Heads game I tunneled him hard out of desperation and game-fatigue. He owes me many, many lynch votes. That is, unless he has actual reasons to vote for me pertaining to this game.

3. Mentioning my paranoia was a fluff post, and not at all sincere. I haven't played Mafia in...like, a year? More? That was just me saying it was good to be back.

4. Brusquely saying, 'No,' to my posts without explanation felt almost like you were trying to alienate me or something, because I've played only one game here before. I was taking it personally, I'm disregarding it now, never mind.

5. Most importantly: your response to the 'slip'. Your initial responses read as aloof, as if to laughingly blame us for misreading an obvious and dumb mistake. You insisted that you weren't dumb enough to make such a mistake--something backed up by Jay, who said that not even most beginners would slip such information.

But as Jay also said, even vets mistakes. Egregious ones. I've done it. Jay's done it. Most vets I've played with have done it. I think that the true mistake is not so much in your original slip but the manner in which you responded to it. First aloofness, and then explaining yourself.

Also, citing other games and saying, 'But look at my meta! See? I've done this before!' is a classic scum move.

Vote Dyslexicon

1. Will look back at it. Here it is.
2. I didn't mention Marmot voting you. Any particular reason you bring this up? Yes you did. Bottom of this post.
3. It was not sincere? Why would you make an insincere post about you being paranoid as town? Can you expand a bit on this point? Obviously it did stand out to me Day 0. Because mafia is about paranoia? And as town one is paranoid because you don't know who to trust? And as scum you're paranoid about being found?
4. I'm sorry if you took it personally. Nothing I write in games is meant to be personal, it's all within the game. I've also only played one game here.
5. I don't think I said all those things, and I'm not trying to blame anyone. I was surprised by the gravity of suspicion, but it was interesting. Jay is actually saying something entirely different than you about the situation. I find it very hard to see how you can't understand that it was done on purpose. Do you actually believe I just happened to have my most recent game doing the exact same thing? You are picking out individual parts to form your suspicion on me, but the whole picture does not make sense. I'm obviously biased, as I'm me, but an argument of me being scum making an elaborate play of pretending to be town fake slipping would make much more sense to me, personally, than what you are arguing. After thinking about this the past few hours at work, I realized my theory made less and less sense as I applied it. I was wrong about it being an outright slip. However, I started thinking about what someone (I forget who) said about your goal being to start a discussion. And now I'm concerned.

Making a fakeslip was going to get a lot of attention, regardless. I want to know WHY you wanted all attention on this situation. Shifting all attention onto one person on a Day 1 seems counterproductive.

I also want to hear about other reads you have. Does anyone in this game seem town to you? Golden and Silver (ha...) seem the most town to me. Long Con has made some weird posts that I want to look into if I get the time tonight. Having played with TownJay and ScumJay and observing that there is very little difference, I wait until he starts delivering scum to the gallows before trusting him. So jury's out on Jay. Quin seems okay. Nutella also.

Honestly your thing happened when I had the most time to devote to the game, so I've only been focusing on that.

Strawhenge wrote:OH MY GOD THERE'S A SIRENGIF BUTTON I LOVE IT I WILL NOW DIE HAPPY

Wow that is hilarious. Good one Marmot, assuming that was you.

Strawhenge wrote:My previous post hidden in spoiler box to shorten post.
My responses to Dys in bold.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:DrWilgy

Dyslexicon wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:DrWilgy

What's the basis for your Wilgy read?
Iirc he played in the one game I played here like a year ago, and I'm pretty sure he barely posted, was fluffy and not very caught up most of the game, but he was town. I'd say his play this game day is fairly NAI.

Dyslexicon wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:

Long Con wrote:Dyslexicon: Is it over? Your fakeslip plan? Should we keep discussing it, or drop it and move on?

I mean, everything in the thread is information. I guess you should focus on what seems interesting and important to you, and thenI will judge you hard and see if you're scum for it things develop from there.

Your overall tactic with the fakeslip, then, is to send it out into the world and let it develop on its own through the eyes of others?

Sure, that too. Everything in the game belongs to the game. Do I look like someone with a grand plan?



Finally fully caught up. Still can't make my head deal with the map thing, but I don't know if it makes any real difference anyway and is certainly less important than finding scum.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: Soneji
Strawhenge
Long Con
JOH
speedchuck
Elohcin

Long Con wrote:I don't like your answer, friend. I was hoping I'd see something from you that tries to use the "data" you generated. I gave you a couple of chances to come forward with something like that, but it looks to me like it was actually very hollow. If you were honestly using a ploy to generate reads, then you... should be doing that. I think you are false, Slex, and it's time to update my vote.

Unvote insertnamehere

Vote Lynch Dyslexicon

Long Con wrote:Also, Slex, are all those big-hair women from the same source? You seem to have a lot of them in stock.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Infrequent posting isn't a big deal for Wilgy. I wouldn't say fluff is a solid town indicator for him though. Even in limited content he usually finds unique ways to hunt within his own bubble, to find connections or points of interest and probe them in his own way. He likes to have fun, but he also likes to play the game. In this game he hasn't done anything with his posts.

Also it looks like I am missing Scotty in the rainbow. Stick him in the orange pile.

Dyslexicon wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: Soneji
Strawhenge
Long Con
JOH
speedchuck
Elohcin

I'm particularly interested in reasoning for read/thoughts on these players if you have anything past gut level?

insertnamehere wrote:

Long Con wrote:Also, Slex, are all those big-hair women from the same source? You seem to have a lot of them in stock.

RuPaul's Drag Race.

It's kinda like The Wire, but with drag shows.

Dyslexicon wrote:I kind of don't like that you feel good about this day, cause I don't feel super great about it nearing it's end without a very strong scumspect. And you don't seem to have that either, so what's so great about it?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:I kind of don't like that you feel good about this day, cause I don't feel super great about it nearing it's end without a very strong scumspect. And you don't seem to have that either, so what's so great about it?

There has been a great deal of interactive content. Many players have directly conversed with many other players. Even if reads right now aren't super conclusive, I think there's a wealth of data in this Day 1 which will be valuable for mining later.

I'm used to less.

Dyslexicon wrote:

Long Con wrote:I don't like your answer, friend. I was hoping I'd see something from you that tries to use the "data" you generated. I gave you a couple of chances to come forward with something like that, but it looks to me like it was actually very hollow. If you were honestly using a ploy to generate reads, then you... should be doing that. I think you are false, Slex, and it's time to update my vote.

Unvote insertnamehere

Vote Lynch Dyslexicon

I AM using that as well as everything else in thread to generate reads. What is the reasoning behind your vote? That I should have better and stronger reads than other players because I used a play that is unconventional on this site? Do you think that makes me more likely scum?

Dyslexicon wrote:You have an answer for everything.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I would describe Dyslexicon's post history this way:

There was the slip thing. They provided a link which validly nullifies it. It doesn't make them town, but I do think it renders that accusation uninteresting. So I remove the "slip" from the posts and assess beyond:

I see a player playing loose, providing relevant content both related to the controversy and to other portions of the continuing dialogue. I see quite a few clearly stated reads. I don't take issue with the tone or the language at face value. I think these are positives. So, if the "slip" is null and the rest is better than that, I land at a read more in the town direction than not.

Dyslexicon wrote:What are my clear reads? I don't even know at this point.

Long Con wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:

Long Con wrote:I don't like your answer, friend. I was hoping I'd see something from you that tries to use the "data" you generated. I gave you a couple of chances to come forward with something like that, but it looks to me like it was actually very hollow. If you were honestly using a ploy to generate reads, then you... should be doing that. I think you are false, Slex, and it's time to update my vote.

Unvote insertnamehere

Vote Lynch Dyslexicon

I AM using that as well as everything else in thread to generate reads. What is the reasoning behind your vote? That I should have better and stronger reads than other players because I used a play that is unconventional on this site? Do you think that makes me more likely scum?

Maybe I didn't make my point of view clear. You are using your (tried and true? go-to?) ploy to seem like you've got an angle and are being town-helpful in your own way, but there's not follow-up to justify it, which makes the whole thing thread-filler. Worse, it has quasi-dominated conversation with opinions on why you did it, and what you could be doing it for... Silver has spent I don't know how much time, searching the linked thread for "evidence"... and in the end you're just like " Take from it what you will!"

I find the sum total of your contributions to be a negative number.

Linki: I didn't disappear. I'm just also in the Champs game... and also catching up on TV shows. Jesus, how long since my last post?? Now you're decrying me as some sort of sniper guy?

speedchuck wrote:

Strawhenge wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Strawhenge wrote:And the game he said it in had information in the OP of how many scum there were.

*runs off to investigate*

Strawhenge I don't see it, please help.

Discrepancy between number of player pairs and role powers. It's 6, and I tried to find where there might have been a scum caught, but that website is awful to navigate and I hate it and it's bad.

It's not concrete, but there's some information. Unless I'm massively misunderstanding it.

And so it just happens that he was right that game, based on dubious info.
It just happens that the other game has the same number of scum that he suggested this game.
It just happens that he slips with the exact same thing he said just a month ago, for similar reason.
It just happens that he remembered the other post, even though this one was an accident (which would leave the two posts with no correlation in his mind. Do you remember every post in this topic that you've made? That other game was longer.)

I don't believe in the power of coincidence quite that much. Though 5 is probably a good number of scum (for one team, anyway) in this game. Probably.

Scotty wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: Half rainbow:
GREEN
Jack
JTrips
Nut
Silver
No avatar guy. Speedchuck?
LIGHT GREEN
Quin
Fred
Golden
YELLOW
Marmot
LC
Sig
ORANGE
Sorsha
Nacho
Sonjei
That guy who looks like Scotty but isn't Scotty. Who was like "I lied about my town read"
RED
Dizzy

I have no idea where I am in that rainbow.

Probably because I'm munching on all the lucky charms at the end of it

Yellow.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Golden wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:The parallel is close, but it doesn't inherently make Dizzy a townie. I have to ask the following question though:

~ Does Dizzy have any reason to fake fakeslip as a bad guy to appear like their town self (typing that feels hilarious) in this environment where nobody really knows their town self anyway? I'm going to say no.

This is the other Jay post that pinged me.

Why did you come to the 'no' conclusion, Jay?

If Dyslexicon's initial intent was to fake-fakeslip so that he might appear as his town self, it wouldn't ever work on this website because nobody here has a clue that's something he does a townie. Indeed the only way for Dizzy to get that information to us is to make the slip, get suspected, and then respond with the link to the past game.

That's a more complex mindset than I am inclined to associate with a Day 1 goofball fakeslip.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:But...he did get suspected and link to that post.

The first is predictable. The second is controllable.

Fredwood wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Color me extremely unimpressed by Dizzy's reads.

Yeah, they're fair reads but they don't incorporate the fakeslip that much, making it a semi useless and less believable tactic.

Currently of the opinion his real slip turned into a "fake slip" and the three reads/no reads thing was done after the fact to reinforce the "fake slip."

Zebra never convinced me last game (especially given her scum role in the end) that being scummy for the sake of getting a reaction was a good idea when there are plenty of better ways to get reactions. Hard to tell pouncing scummers and pouncing townies apart when you make yourself a juicy target for both.




Proud of Fred for giving early reads. Disappointed in Fred for reading me as scum without giving reasons. Play more better. I know you can. Why do you suspect me, Fred?

I believe I said slight scum, and that was because I've never seen you passive. Granted you said you lost the e-mail, but the even in the posts following that statement I wasn't sure to make of them, felt out of character and in the face of the unknown I distrust it.

With the dizzying flurry of posts since I've last checked the thread, you've returned to what feels familiar to me, so I'm back to a neutral read. Now I just distrust you out of habit not because of a misread behavior.

To be fair I was just voicing my gut, early cold reads are not things I readily share because I don't like making judgments without context, but it seems to be en vogue here.

Dyslexicon wrote:

Quin wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:

Quin wrote:I've got some stuff to say too, if you'd be so kind as to answer to the contradiction I pointed out in your posts, Dys.

I didn't understand what you meant, so please explain?

You said earlier that you had three scum reads, but you later denied having any. Why?

Oh. I mentioned the "three reads" so that the post would look somewhat natural so it would be believable. Or else I wouldn't have any reason to talk numbers at all. So "There's five scum, but I only have three scum reads" would read more natural than just randomly state five scums in isolation.