The Syndicate

Epignosis wrote:If I had another vote, it'd be on Glorfindel.

If I had a request, it would be that people would pay more attention to DrumBeats' posts.

If it makes you feel better, if I didn't have to vote for OA or BR I'd vote Drumbeats or JJJ...

Somewhere around page 25 in the catch-up that I probably won't ever finish.

For a lack of knowledge or better ideas, I'm gonna honor my predecessor's vote and stick with Glorfindel.

*still hasn't heard a single actual argument against me since about Day 2*

Epignosis wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Epignosis wrote:If I had another vote, it'd be on Glorfindel.

If I had a request, it would be that people would pay more attention to DrumBeats' posts.

I don't agree with your read on DrumBeats.

You don't agree with me? That surprises me.

Why not?

I don't think your interpretation of his two-way Polo read fits his description of that read. On one side he sees a strong mafia case, and on another side he sees a lesser mafia case. I don't think that has to be manipulation. I haven't struggled to follow DrumBeats's thought processes as he presents them in his rainbow lists and other provisions of reads.

rabbit8 wrote:The town win a lot of games on this site?

That's irrelevant, thanks for nothing.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Epignosis wrote:If I had another vote, it'd be on Glorfindel.

If I had a request, it would be that people would pay more attention to DrumBeats' posts.

I don't agree with your read on DrumBeats.

You don't agree with me? That surprises me.

Why not?

I don't think your interpretation of his two-way Polo read fits his description of that read. On one side he sees a strong mafia case, and on another side he sees a lesser mafia case. I don't think that has to be manipulation. I haven't struggled to follow DrumBeats's thought processes as he presents them in his rainbow lists and other provisions of reads.

This surprises me because I recall a certain Prisoner grilling me for a manufactured trap on Nerolunar, and what DrumBeats is doing to Polo is very much the same thing.

There's your first argument against you.

Matt wrote:The True Identity Act

All players who have been lynched or will be lynched shall have their faction revealed in the form of civilian, mafia, or independent.

Epignosis - Yea or Nay?

Epignosis wrote:This surprises me because I recall a certain Prisoner grilling me for a manufactured trap on Nerolunar, and what DrumBeats is doing to Polo is very much the same thing.

There's your first argument against you.

Your treatment of Nero in Turf Wars came in the form of an impossible ultimatum. DrumBeats did not do that. He put a read in the thread.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

rabbit8 wrote:The town win a lot of games on this site?

That's irrelevant, thanks for nothing.

Sure, you telling me what is pro town on a site where the town rarely win is irrelevant. But please do go on believing your civvie ways are effective.

rabbit8 wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

rabbit8 wrote:The town win a lot of games on this site?

That's irrelevant, thanks for nothing.

Sure, you telling me what is pro town on a site where the town rarely win is irrelevant. But please do go on believing your civvie ways are effective.

You have no idea who I am or where I come from.

rabbit8: instead of answering a simple prompt, let's discredit JJJ (with a humorously ignorant statement) for his ability to serve as a productive townie.

Moreover, he just acknowledged that I have "civvie ways" in the very same game he's just accused me of being bad in.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Epignosis wrote:This surprises me because I recall a certain Prisoner grilling me for a manufactured trap on Nerolunar, and what DrumBeats is doing to Polo is very much the same thing.

There's your first argument against you.

Your treatment of Nero in Turf Wars came in the form of an impossible ultimatum. DrumBeats did not do that. He put a read in the thread.

No sir. DrumBeats said Polo was bad regardless of that outcome of Wilgy's alignment, which can't necessarily be known anyway given this set up. He makes Polo out to be bad no matter what transpires. That was something I would have expected you to jump on, but you didn't. I did instead, and it's weird to me that I have to point it out to you.

insertnamehere wrote:so there's like 160 pages here

would anyone be super nice and give me some basic cliffnotes?

Lol.

Matt wrote:The True Identity Act

All players who have been lynched or will be lynched shall have their faction revealed in the form of civilian, mafia, or independent.

This sounds plausible
in light of circumventing
Host's design how?

rabbit8 wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

rabbit8 wrote:The town win a lot of games on this site?

That's irrelevant, thanks for nothing.

Sure, you telling me what is pro town on a site where the town rarely win is irrelevant. But please do go on believing your civvie ways are effective.

Note prolonged bitching
instead of giving reads for
Day called near useless.

Epignosis wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Epignosis wrote:This surprises me because I recall a certain Prisoner grilling me for a manufactured trap on Nerolunar, and what DrumBeats is doing to Polo is very much the same thing.

There's your first argument against you.

Your treatment of Nero in Turf Wars came in the form of an impossible ultimatum. DrumBeats did not do that. He put a read in the thread.

No sir. DrumBeats said Polo was bad regardless of that outcome of Wilgy's alignment, which can't necessarily be known anyway given this set up. He makes Polo out to be bad no matter what transpires. That was something I would have expected you to jump on, but you didn't. I did instead, and it's weird to me that I have to point it out to you.

You're not acknowledging the variance in the read DrumBeats proposed. He didn't say "If Wilgy is town, Polo is the worst. If Wilgy is scum, Polo is the worst". His assertion was that Polo's treatment of Wilgy was generally suspicious for its degree of confidence, and that suspicion would be made even worse in the event of one of the potential outcomes.

I've made similar reads myself many times. Sometimes people say things that just seem suspicious at face value regardless of context, and certain contexts make that suspicion more significant. I don't really agree with DrumBeats on this point about Polo, but I don't think he's suspicious for presenting it.

Epignosis - What do you think of the True Identity Act?

Also, officially all caught up! I have to leave for work in less then 30 so I'm gonna take a smoke break and think over who I should vote for.

(probably gonna be one of those unclaimed folk, tbh)

insertnamehere wrote:Somewhere around page 25 in the catch-up that I probably won't ever finish.

For a lack of knowledge or better ideas, I'm gonna honor my predecessor's vote and stick with Glorfindel.

Insert, this game has particular voting rules, the official vote is in the thread and not in the poll, and it must be posted in dead red. This is so Goldama can time-stamp the vote.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:rabbit8: instead of answering a simple prompt, let's discredit JJJ (with a humorously ignorant statement) for his ability to serve as a productive townie.

Moreover, he just acknowledged that I have "civvie ways" in the very same game he's just accused me of being bad in.

Yes, I'm very ignorant. It's one of my endearing qualities.

Ricochet wrote:

Matt wrote:The True Identity Act

All players who have been lynched or will be lynched shall have their faction revealed in the form of civilian, mafia, or independent.

This sounds plausible
in light of circumventing
Host's design how?

rabbit8 wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

rabbit8 wrote:The town win a lot of games on this site?

That's irrelevant, thanks for nothing.

Sure, you telling me what is pro town on a site where the town rarely win is irrelevant. But please do go on believing your civvie ways are effective.

Note prolonged bitching
instead of giving reads for
Day called near useless.

A few notes...

Sokoth is really playing up the noob card by his "read" on Einstein. For realz.

Epi not insulting my question towards him immediately...is giving me the heebies.

Also, I'm not sure what to think of Glorf. He had a post (somewhere, yeesh) saying "I am civvie Glorf as always" (paraphrasing obvi) and I actually straight up believed it. HOWEVER...he hasn't claimed yet. And lots of people are thinking he's bad, so in honor of SilverWolf my vote is going to...

Glorfindel

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Epignosis wrote:This surprises me because I recall a certain Prisoner grilling me for a manufactured trap on Nerolunar, and what DrumBeats is doing to Polo is very much the same thing.

There's your first argument against you.

Your treatment of Nero in Turf Wars came in the form of an impossible ultimatum. DrumBeats did not do that. He put a read in the thread.

No sir. DrumBeats said Polo was bad regardless of that outcome of Wilgy's alignment, which can't necessarily be known anyway given this set up. He makes Polo out to be bad no matter what transpires. That was something I would have expected you to jump on, but you didn't. I did instead, and it's weird to me that I have to point it out to you.

You're not acknowledging the variance in the read DrumBeats proposed. He didn't say "If Wilgy is town, Polo is the worst. If Wilgy is scum, Polo is the worst". His assertion was that Polo's treatment of Wilgy was generally suspicious for its degree of confidence, and that suspicion would be made even worse in the event of one of the potential outcomes.

I've made similar reads myself many times. Sometimes people say things that just seem suspicious at face value regardless of context, and certain contexts make that suspicion more significant. I don't really agree with DrumBeats on this point about Polo, but I don't think he's suspicious for presenting it.

I don't give a damn about variance. Neither do you, Mr. Null Notallowed.

INH, for where you are caught up to, do you agree with Silvers vote on Glorfindel?

Matt wrote:Epignosis - What do you think of the True Identity Act?

That it doesn't matter what I think.

Oh, and to whom it may concern..."Chaos Age"...LOL...

Idgaf if Glorfy is on your list. Come at me.

insertnamehere wrote:Somewhere around page 25 in the catch-up that I probably won't ever finish.

For a lack of knowledge or better ideas, I'm gonna honor my predecessor's vote and stick with Glorfindel.

Never mind, I just found this.

Matt wrote:Epi not insulting my question towards him immediately...is giving me the heebies.

Enjoy your heebies. Some of us have other things to do than acknowledge your foolishness right away.

Matt wrote:A few notes...

Sokoth is really playing up the noob card by his "read" on Einstein. For realz.

Epi not insulting my question towards him immediately...is giving me the heebies.

Also, I'm not sure what to think of Glorf. He had a post (somewhere, yeesh) saying "I am civvie Glorf as always" (paraphrasing obvi) and I actually straight up believed it. HOWEVER...he hasn't claimed yet. And lots of people are thinking he's bad, so in honor of SilverWolf my vote is going to...

Glorfindel

One could almost say
you followed another vote
yet a-matty-gain.

Epignosis wrote:

Matt wrote:Epi not insulting my question towards him immediately...is giving me the heebies.

Enjoy your heebies. Some of us have other things to do than acknowledge your foolishness right away.

See that's more like it.

But it's not foolishness. I think this may be one of my best ideas ever!

On that note, off to work peeps. Good luck town!

Matt wrote:A few notes...

Sokoth is really playing up the noob card by his "read" on Einstein. For realz.

Epi not insulting my question towards him immediately...is giving me the heebies.

Also, I'm not sure what to think of Glorf. He had a post (somewhere, yeesh) saying "I am civvie Glorf as always" (paraphrasing obvi) and I actually straight up believed it. HOWEVER...he hasn't claimed yet. And lots of people are thinking he's bad, so in honor of SilverWolf my vote is going to...

Glorfindel

Glorfindel

Whoops, I quoted the wrong thing. Here's what I meant to quote:

Dex wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:Somewhere around page 25 in the catch-up that I probably won't ever finish.

For a lack of knowledge or better ideas, I'm gonna honor my predecessor's vote and stick with Glorfindel.

Insert, this game has particular voting rules, the official vote is in the thread and not in the poll, and it must be posted in dead red. This is so Goldama can time-stamp the vote.

A toast and a vote
to enduring qualities.
rabbit8. Good night.

Ricochet wrote:A toast and a vote
to enduring qualities.
rabbit8. Good night.

Now if I can get JJJ riled up enough he'll throw his vote my way too, hopefully.

Catching up, since it confused some people last time when I responded to current and old simultaneously, I'm just going to make sure I go chronologically for clarity's sake.

Polo wrote:@Drumbeats so, if my guess was right, then I'm mafia to you? That is utterly ridiculous and I'd expect a solid accusation from anyone who doubts my civness.

It's not ridiculous. Mafia likely knows who their teammates are. Civs do not have this type of information. Should Wilgy be town, a mafia member would know the following after the failed lynch:
1) Wilgy is not a mafia cylon
2) Wilgy is a cylon

That would leave a Mafia cylon to know that Wilgy is either a town cylon such as Cap Six or the Leo dude Dex mentioned, or one of the final five. Based on the nature of Wilgy's claim, it was pretty clear that he knew he was a cylon, so that would mean that either the final five twist has started behind the scenes or that he is a town cylon. I cannot see a way to believe that strongly that he is civ without having this mafia inside knowledge. If anybody else can come up with another way, I would love to hear it.

All of the above depends entirely on how Wilgy flips though. If Wilgy flips mafia later, then all of this has no meaning.

However, the bolded and underlined here, I find suspcious. From my experience, scum players are much more likely to get frustrated when they are suspected for reasoning that they find flawed.

Matt wrote:So wow, I've been super busy and still haven't read anything except LC's flip. Going to try and catch up tonight, starting now.

President Roslin (or whoever at this point), I had an idea for a law! Don't know if Goldama would allow it but something like...

The True Identity Act

All players who have been lynched or will be lynched shall have their faction revealed in the form of civilian, mafia, or independent.

Or heck, you're the President so why not go for the NK'd too?

I dunno if you can make a law for dead people but hey thought I'd share! Off to catch up now...

I love this idea. Do this please Presidente

Epignosis wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

Glorfindel wrote: I am definitely motivated, my friend. As poor as the chances are of us winning this, I won't give up! And no, if you'd bothered to read my last few posts at all, I NEVER said that I suspected G-Man of being Mafia. In fact, I said the opposite and if you don't believe me, look back a couple of posts to the GTH reads that I did for 3J and you'll see there in black and white that I judged him to be Town. The answer I gave to 3J's hypothetical question was unrelated to his alignment - that's why it was posted in green font. It seems you make a habit out of misrepresenting my comments (like you did last game) so I'm frankly hardly surprised at your new voting intention.

Town has low chances
To win? *takes a look at the
lynch results* Huh. Why?

I want to know why Glorfindel is so gloomy at this stage. What facts indicate poor chances of a civilian win?

Not sure if you're serious...?

Have yopu not read anything I've said in this game?

You say you suspect 3J. He says that your reads are generally very reliable. I find that he exudes very strong Town vibes. What am I to conclude from this Epi?

I've read everything you have posted and I am serious.

Please answer the question. What facts indicate poor chances of a civilian win?

Then please read again my posts over the past 24 hours or so. If what I said last night is true, please tell me where there is any room for optimism? Take a look at the players we've lost so far - where is there hope among that list? LoRab? I don't believe so. Nutella? Perhaps, but I've no great confidence they were Mafia. On top of that, it seems to me that we maybe at a 'tipping point' this Day phase that could easily plunge us into a mire further mislynches fueled by misinformation and lies. I'm normally pretty optimistic as a rule, I still have hope this can turn out right but I still think things aren't looking great for us.

You didn't offer me facts. You gave me opinions and perceptions.

Fine. I'll work with that. What roles are bad?

Morning tea...

I never claimed to have facts Epi and if you think you have any more than the rest of us you're kidding yourself. The absence of them I think is what makes this game so 'challenging'. Your other question is interesting and I do have an opinion or two but I may not have time to get back to you before my lunch/EoD (and potentially EoMe) but I'll try if I get the opportunity.

DrumBeats wrote:I cannot see a way to believe that strongly that he is civ without having this mafia inside knowledge. If anybody else can come up with another way, I would love to hear it..

Sure you can see a way, if you want. It really isn't that hard. A little read, a little thought, a little search, a little logic, and hey presto!

Matt wrote:A few notes...

Sokoth is really playing up the noob card by his "read" on Einstein. For realz.

Epi not insulting my question towards him immediately...is giving me the heebies.

Also, I'm not sure what to think of Glorf. He had a post (somewhere, yeesh) saying "I am civvie Glorf as always" (paraphrasing obvi) and I actually straight up believed it. HOWEVER...he hasn't claimed yet. And lots of people are thinking he's bad, so in honor of SilverWolf my vote is going to...

Glorfindel

Dodgy as all hell... I don't know whether to be angry or just disappointed in you Matt...

Don't want to quote it because I'm afraid of causing the weird spoiler quote glitch, but I really like JJJ's case on BR in the ISO. Specifically, wanting to lynch Lorab based on the idea that nutella is mafia, but hesitating to vote nutella until it picked up steam. Black rock has moved to a scum read for me right now, though based on Glorf's heavy push for BR today I only think one of the two would be scum.

Glorfindel wrote:

Epignosis wrote:You didn't offer me facts. You gave me opinions and perceptions.

Fine. I'll work with that. What roles are bad?

Morning tea...

I never claimed to have facts Epi and if you think you have any more than the rest of us you're kidding yourself. The absence of them I think is what makes this game so 'challenging'. Your other question is interesting and I do have an opinion or two but I may not have time to get back to you before my lunch/EoD (and potentially EoMe) but I'll try if I get the opportunity.

Well, I'm not nice like you.

You claim civilians have no chance, but you have nothing to back it up. I think you are deceptive and bad. I hope you get lynched.

Here's a smiley face to prove I'm being nice when I say that.

DrumBeats wrote:Catching up, since it confused some people last time when I responded to current and old simultaneously, I'm just going to make sure I go chronologically for clarity's sake.

Polo wrote:@Drumbeats so, if my guess was right, then I'm mafia to you? That is utterly ridiculous and I'd expect a solid accusation from anyone who doubts my civness.

It's not ridiculous. Mafia likely knows who their teammates are. Civs do not have this type of information. Should Wilgy be town, a mafia member would know the following after the failed lynch:
1) Wilgy is not a mafia cylon
2) Wilgy is a cylon

That would leave a Mafia cylon to know that Wilgy is either a town cylon such as Cap Six or the Leo dude Dex mentioned, or one of the final five. Based on the nature of Wilgy's claim, it was pretty clear that he knew he was a cylon, so that would mean that either the final five twist has started behind the scenes or that he is a town cylon. I cannot see a way to believe that strongly that he is civ without having this mafia inside knowledge. If anybody else can come up with another way, I would love to hear it.

All of the above depends entirely on how Wilgy flips though. If Wilgy flips mafia later, then all of this has no meaning.

However, the bolded and underlined here, I find suspcious. From my experience, scum players are much more likely to get frustrated when they are suspected for reasoning that they find flawed.

Perhaps what I'm saying just make sense? Drumbeats did you judge me based on my postings vs me just being a cylon yet? if so point me to it please.

Golden wrote:You can always link a post you don't want to quote, by copying and pasting the url link and using the url tags above. All you have to do is put "url=(the pasted link)" in the first tag and you have a linked post. Try quoting one of my posts with a link to have a look if you want to see how it's done.

Also, I do commend people for restraint in quoting spoiler tags lol.

Epignosis wrote:Well, I'm not nice like you.

Quoted for out of context truth.

Additional time is needed to process DrumBeats. Sorry Epi. The extra day hasn't provided me with too much extra clarity but it's been nice being able to take another look at a few people.

I'm staying true to the cause since he's a viable option today. Vote = Glorfindel

insertnamehere wrote:Somewhere around page 25 in the catch-up that I probably won't ever finish.

For a lack of knowledge or better ideas, I'm gonna honor my predecessor's vote and stick with Glorfindel.

You need to post your vote in dead read in order for it to be valid.

Polo wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:Somewhere around page 25 in the catch-up that I probably won't ever finish.

For a lack of knowledge or better ideas, I'm gonna honor my predecessor's vote and stick with Glorfindel.

You need to post your vote in dead read in order for it to be valid.

EBWOP: didn't read the linki, sorry

DrWilgy wrote:Quiet day today.

I like the spread of votes. Generally it means we are on the right track.

I wonder when BR will show up. I wonder if OA or Sokoth will discuss with me. I'm havin an itch that JJJ is bad.

Marmot, why are you being so quiet?

Linki - I think he did both...

I'm interested in your case on JJJ. I haven't found anything to scumread him on, but I would love to hear what you've got and see if I missed anything.

Matt wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Ah but you need to go back and read how I replied to that post of BRs you quoted, Rabbit. I DID think all cylons were bad at the start of the game. I never saw this show. No one made any mention of potential civ cylons until after Epi was rezzed that I can recall.

I did.

Specifically listed Athena too, as I recall.

3J asked why I believe Wilgy is a confirmed civvie...I don't. But Dex (and maybe someone else, I think it was Rico who said I was on drugs) asked me to read the rest of the thread before I do that, so I thought maybe he became one.

Derp.

Yeah, he's definitely not. Basically my understand of things is that Dex provided very solid reasoning as to why we likely have two more civ cylons other than Epig, Cap Six and Leo. However, I have seen nothing that points to Wilgy being one of them.

Glorfindel wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Glorfindel, when I asked you who you'd lynch above all others this day phase, I meant for you to provide a name that you suspect. Whatever you might think of G-Man's accusations, if you don't suspect him then I don't have any use for that.

Who among your suspects would you lynch?

It shouldn't be this difficult to get an answer.

I'm sorry 3J. Youi asked me a question that I took at face value and answered in all honesty. I'm sincerely sorry, I don't read minds and assuming what you wanted is beyond my humble deductive powers.

In answer to your question above, if I'd known what you were asking at the time, I'd have said Black Rock for the reasons that I stated at the time. Given subsequent posts however, I'm increasing inclined to be suspicious of Polo. I'm really not feeling the push against either yourself or Ricochet.

I'll pop back later, duty calls...

Drop off your reasoning on Polo, 3J, and Rico please.

Epignosis wrote:If I had another vote, it'd be on Glorfindel.

If I had a request, it would be that people would pay more attention to DrumBeats' posts.

I have the same request, but I want people to look at my posts and actually consider my opinions :P

DrumBeats wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Quiet day today.

I like the spread of votes. Generally it means we are on the right track.

I wonder when BR will show up. I wonder if OA or Sokoth will discuss with me. I'm havin an itch that JJJ is bad.

Marmot, why are you being so quiet?

Linki - I think he did both...

I'm interested in your case on JJJ. I haven't found anything to scumread him on, but I would love to hear what you've got and see if I missed anything.

JJJ stated that the event with my defense reminded him of the GoC, his lynch survival, and his defense. I feel that it's more likely for him to be reminded of that incident if he were to know I was civ and genuinely defending myself, similarly to he did in the GoC. The only way for him to know this? he's with Cavil.