The Syndicate

Thank you for that Spoiler post DH. I was going to go with Mac today anyways. Be back later to expand on this if I get off at a decent time. But I stand by my theory that Mac, Wilgy, and Sorsha are a team.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Matt, I see you listed Draco and DrWilgy as my potential partners?

DrWilgy?

Linki @Rico:

Nah. I agreed with DH that you're most likely not on Wilgy's team, assuming that Drac and Zebra are your teamies. Because I firmly believe Wilgy/Lorab were partners, that would mean 5 mafia on one team, which I hope is not the case.

FZ - Yes, please, let's lynch MM.

juliets -

I don't think he's a very bad indie. I think he's Mafia. There is no "lost window of opportunity" IMO.

Omg lol, nobody is going to lynch this guy. Bwahahahaha. I'm almost tearing my hair out over here.

Blah. I'll be back later.

Draconus wrote:"Covered on a beach" damn! So close

Just realized my phone auto-corrected cavorted to covered. Derp

Ricochet wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

FZ. wrote: I'm kind of disappointed in Wilgy. I hate that people don't play when they are bad and only when they're close to being lynched, they suddenly have time to play. I don't think it's cool and I expected more from him.

Funnily, that is also what happened with MM, so now, I'm starting to wonder whether Matt is right in wanting to lynch him. I think it's pretty safe to assume he's not on Wilgy's team, or am I wrong?

This and that are not the same.

I was ready to give up and be lynched on Day 3 before I was talked out of it.

Explain.

Jay asked me for reads and thoughts, and persisted that I stay determined, so I did.

I didn't think I'd have a chance at survivng. But then also decided that there's more to this game then me winning or not. I decided that I would support anyone who believed in me or gave me a chance. DH was the first person to give me a chance and say "Hey guys, MM might be telling the truth".

To those who think I'm a malevolant Indy, I want to hear why they think that.

Matt wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Matt, I see you listed Draco and DrWilgy as my potential partners?

DrWilgy?

Linki @Rico:

Nah. I agreed with DH that you're most likely not on Wilgy's team, assuming that Drac and Zebra are your teamies. Because I firmly believe Wilgy/Lorab were partners, that would mean 5 mafia on one team, which I hope is not the case.

FZ - Yes, please, let's lynch MM.

juliets -

I don't think he's a very bad indie. I think he's Mafia. There is no "lost window of opportunity" IMO.

Omg lol, nobody is going to lynch this guy. Bwahahahaha. I'm almost tearing my hair out over here.

Blah. I'll be back later.

Because right now it's more important to go after known associates of the confirmed baddie. Mac defended the fuck out of Wilgy. Ergo, Mac.

You barely have any hair left anyway, Matt, as far as I can tell.

The only ballswalls level of confidence I can see in Mac or Sorsha claiming together as Wilgteamies that Wilgy is good because "LC trusted him" is if they'd expect the lynch to fail and the civ numbers to fall again during the night or to lynch to not go Wilgy's way and win yet another, possibly crucial cycle against the civs. If so, then yeah, the night kill really got them dunked on.

Additionally, The MetalMarmot seems to be just as interested as the rest of us in eradicating team Wilgy (at the very least), so why not keep his vote around for a little while longer?

Linki Rico

I think Mac and Bea are good places to look at. Both were very fast to use the LC trusted us and put all three in one group. I don't know if Bea's claim that this was the first time she really felt she could trust LC was genuine or not. When she joined she said how much she wanted to trust LC but gave reasons when we discussed things to why he may be bad. A few days later, she was ready to be "the FZ to jjj" meaning she would defend him with everything she had. It could be that they had BTSC and he managed to convince her he was good. It's weird that knowing everything she does on LC's game when he's bad, she didn't hesitate to defend him, but maybe the BTSC really had that profound effect on her.

As for Mac, he started the game quite strongly, and then had too many days when he wasn't involved enough. He said he was really busy, but hey, Wilgy said that too. Then we have the let's tie every lynch now just for fun. I wouldn't be that obvious as a baddie, but my biggest mistake when letting baddies off the hook is expecting them to act as I would when bad. I'm done with that, after the Wilgy fiasco.

I don't know if both could be bad, if not, it's their turn to convince us who among them is telling the truth and why the other one it the liar.


linki: I think we can leave MM for now, and see if we need to lynch him later on.

I need to go. I'll check in tomorrow. Hopefully, Bea and Mac will talk more.

I don't recall if anyone else has asked.

Hostess/Host: Will we be informed if an opposing faction (or any faction) is eliminated?

If, by some cosmic miracle, Sorsha is not Wilgy's teammate, and Mac is Wilgy's teammate, he would know that lynching Sorsha first kills the Wilgy case in it's crib. But the thing is I think Sorsha is Wilgy's teammate so I dunno what to make of Mac going after her.

Still haven't gotten to the part where bea votes Dr Wilgy in my catch up.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I don't recall if anyone else has asked.

Hostess/Host: Will we be informed if an opposing faction (or any faction) is eliminated?

Yes.

So what do we make of indies not being announced as eliminated?

@Rico - Independent roles by definition are factionless.

Also, bea initially voted for Draco, but once she came under pressure by Rico and myself she switched to Dr Wilgy.

That looks pretty dern sketch.

Linki w/ TH Bah

And by "once she came under pressure" I mean immediately after Rico questioned her and I called out a Wilgy save. Immediately after.

What I'm seeing is a Wilgy/Sorsha/bea Trio makes more sense than Mac/Wlgy/Sorsha but that's just me.

DharmaHelper wrote:@Rico - Independent roles by definition are factionless.

Also, bea initially voted for Draco, but once she came under pressure by Rico and myself she switched to Dr Wilgy.

That looks pretty dern sketch.

Linki w/ TH Bah

I agree that her jumping in with the Wilgy is LC-certified pitch, despite me never asking her in the first place, coupled with her completely wishy-washy, flippy-floopy D8 vote doesn't speak well for her. But would she be Wilgy teamie or Wilgy non-teamie, in this case?

Ricochet wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:@Rico - Independent roles by definition are factionless.

Also, bea initially voted for Draco, but once she came under pressure by Rico and myself she switched to Dr Wilgy.

That looks pretty dern sketch.

Linki w/ TH Bah

I agree that her jumping in with the Wilgy is LC-certified pitch, despite me never asking her in the first place, coupled with her completely wishy-washy, flippy-floopy D8 vote doesn't speak well for her. But would she be Wilgy teamie or Wilgy non-teamie, in this case?

If she knew Wilgy would survive the lynch and had reservations about how a civ Draco flip would look for her given her vote and her history of claiming Draco is civ, I could see her reflexively changing her vote to Dr Wilgy in order to save face. Bet your ass she knows I wouldn't have given up on Wilgy till he got lynched and I think she'd know better than to go down with that ship.

My defense of my defense of Wilgy is that I know LC had tricks he was using that were pretty clever + his long term survival really convinced me. Also I think the fact I stayed with my gut and didn't just flip my opinion to get cred on the day he didn't get lynched and my tie stuff isn't careful Mafiaesque play.

Also there is the interractions with Lorab and Zebra as Rico documented. I think even a cursory glance at those shows them to be genuine.

I still believe that Drac is the scummiest player here and isn't getting the attention he deserves.

I reeeally need to see this tricks after the game.

Would it not be the greatest thing of all time if LC had btsc with Wilgy AND one of his teammates. Vouch city.

MM still didn't tell me what pulled him back in the game D3.

Ricochet wrote:

Story of my game, btw.

Ricochet wrote:

juliets wrote:

Matt wrote:

juliets wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:Anybody curious why Sorsha seems to think being off the poll means she can not contribute anything to the discussion?

I scrolled through Sorshas posts and most all of them seem to be at night or the wee hours of the morning. It could be that she works during the day.

juliets, as someone I believe is civ based on Dom's posts about you, I would like to ask...

Would you like to vote MM with me? Dom clued us in that he was the ultimate baddie, after all...

Matt, I have come to believe MM is a very bad indy as opposed to a straight baddie and as such I would love to get rid of him. The problem is we've lost the window of opportunity with him, we probably should have lynched him shortly after Dom died but we had other leads then too I suppose. Anyway, now we're in a position to have to lynch baddies or we're done, if we're not already done, while MM is still in a position to do us harm. A sad state of affairs.

Why is MM's level of badness "very bad" and what harm do you foresee him doing to us?

I think he's as bad as a baddie and as such is out to do us harm. I have a strong hunch based on his vibes that he's a bad indy- can't explain it any better. i understand I could be wrong and Matt could be right.

Draconus is still scum for all the reasons he was scum when I already said he was less the possibility he's on Team Wilgy.

Bea flipping from Drac to Wilgy for barely any reason seemed like an "okay fuck you it won't work anyway" type vote.

FZ voting for Draconus over Wilgy, again her vote doesn't make sense in light of her previous play.

I would go as far as to say the only Drac vote that wasn't haphazardly placed there is mine. My vote is the least Wilgy savey on the wagon. I have a case on Draconus and I had been defending Wilgy, if there's something positive to be said for my behaviour around that it's that it was consistent.

I wouldn't argue to lynching any of the aforementioned. The only player right now who I'm civ reading is DH. I could see a case against everyone else.

Does a Wilgy, Lorab, Bea + FZ team make sense?

Ricochet wrote:MM still didn't tell me what pulled him back in the game D3.

Yes I did.

juliets wrote:I think he's as bad as a baddie and as such is out to do us harm. I have a strong hunch based on his vibes that he's a bad indy- can't explain it any better. i understand I could be wrong and Matt could be right.

This is kind of a baseless accusation, isn't it?

What is this harm that I wish upon you?

Hey Metalmarsh. Can you still win the game? Do you have a solo win con or can you win alongside others? What's the capital of Maine?

Augusta.

Why did you blatantly ignore the other questions?

I'm not explaining my win condition, sorry. It is true that I tried to get lynched Day 1 (but was thwarted). I stand by my neutral claim, but I'm not exposing myself any more than that.

Linki: Those took longer to answer. :P

How can we justify not lynching you?

If you are benign what reason would you have for not saying so?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Ricochet wrote:MM still didn't tell me what pulled him back in the game D3.

Yes I did.

juliets wrote:I think he's as bad as a baddie and as such is out to do us harm. I have a strong hunch based on his vibes that he's a bad indy- can't explain it any better. i understand I could be wrong and Matt could be right.

This is kind of a baseless accusation, isn't it?

What is this harm that I wish upon you?

So my accusation that you're an indy is baseless? I think the only part we disagree on is that I think you're bad. And as i said it's a gut feel, but if you're not a bad indy you're a baddie like Matt says. Funny you call me out because based on my gut we can't afford to get rid of you whereas based on Matt's case we need to lynch you. There's always the possibility I'll go back to believing you're a baddie - I guess that would make you happier. And quit calling yourself a neutral to make it look better.

MacDougall wrote:If you are benign what reason would you have for not saying so?

Because my role description is the only thing I have in terms of self-preservation. And also, I don't owe anybody that information.

I don't know what the civ's win condition is. But Ricochet suggested that it is to eliminate opposing factions. TH stated that Independents are not a faction, so

juliets wrote:So my accusation that you're an indy is baseless? I think the only part we disagree on is that I think you're bad. And as i said it's a gut feel, but if you're not a bad indy you're a baddie like Matt says. Funny you call me out because based on my gut we can't afford to get rid of you whereas based on Matt's case we need to lynch you. There's always the possibility I'll go back to believing you're a baddie - I guess that would make you happier. And quit calling yourself a neutral to make it look better.

Actually, I'm looking at the consistency of your gameplay. You've made it a point to ISO players and bring evidence forth on their baddieness throughout this game. But your evidence that I am a bad Indy is a "gut feel".

I think anyone who can make the accusation that I am both Independent and bad has a very good chance of being on the mafia team I am accused of being on.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

MacDougall wrote:If you are benign what reason would you have for not saying so?

Because my role description is the only thing I have in terms of self-preservation. And also, I don't owe anybody that information.

I don't know what the civ's win condition is. But Ricochet suggested that it is to eliminate opposing factions. TH stated that Independents are not a faction, so

Well, that blew up semantically in my face.

Also, I can't actually find TH or SVS ever clarifying what I thought they did.

Carry on.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Ricochet wrote:MM still didn't tell me what pulled him back in the game D3.

Yes I did.

Where/when?

I still can't shake the heebie jeebie that juliets is a Godfather.

@Ricochet. Link. If you're looking for an event that happened or something like that, you're out of luck. It was a personal decision.

Ricochet wrote:I still can't shake the heebie jeebie that juliets is a Godfather.

well, keep shaking because I'm not

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

juliets wrote:So my accusation that you're an indy is baseless? I think the only part we disagree on is that I think you're bad. And as i said it's a gut feel, but if you're not a bad indy you're a baddie like Matt says. Funny you call me out because based on my gut we can't afford to get rid of you whereas based on Matt's case we need to lynch you. There's always the possibility I'll go back to believing you're a baddie - I guess that would make you happier. And quit calling yourself a neutral to make it look better.

Actually, I'm looking at the consistency of your gameplay. You've made it a point to ISO players and bring evidence forth on their baddieness throughout this game. But your evidence that I am a bad Indy is a "gut feel".

I think anyone who can make the accusation that I am both Independent and bad has a very good chance of being on the mafia team I am accused of being on.

Sometimes I have gut feels, thats just the way it is with me. Sometimes I'm right and sometimes I'm wrong. It doesnt mean I'm on any mafia team - I don't even know how you think that is logical. Gut feel = must be mafia. Even though I argued that we shouldn't lynch you because you are indy. Anyway, I don't really have anything more to say on this subject. I'll let you know if I change my mind and go back to you being bad.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

FZ. wrote: I'm kind of disappointed in Wilgy. I hate that people don't play when they are bad and only when they're close to being lynched, they suddenly have time to play. I don't think it's cool and I expected more from him.

Funnily, that is also what happened with MM, so now, I'm starting to wonder whether Matt is right in wanting to lynch him. I think it's pretty safe to assume he's not on Wilgy's team, or am I wrong?

This and that are not the same.

I was ready to give up and be lynched on Day 3 before I was talked out of it.

Explain.

Jay asked me for reads and thoughts, and persisted that I stay determined, so I did.

I didn't think I'd have a chance at survivng. But then also decided that there's more to this game then me winning or not. I decided that I would support anyone who believed in me or gave me a chance. DH was the first person to give me a chance and say "Hey guys, MM might be telling the truth".

To those who think I'm a malevolant Indy, I want to hear why they think that.

Tell me why the first underline answers your question in the second underline.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. You're not indy bad, just bad. Btw, did you seriously just accuse juliets because she thinks you're indy/bad as opposed to just bad? Like, did Dom's top suspect just tell the player who Dom proclaimed to be civ that she may be on the mafia team he is accused of being on?

Juliets, why do you currently think that I am a bad Indy as opposed to a regular baddie? And why do you think you could easily sway on that opinion?

Matt wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

FZ. wrote: I'm kind of disappointed in Wilgy. I hate that people don't play when they are bad and only when they're close to being lynched, they suddenly have time to play. I don't think it's cool and I expected more from him.

Funnily, that is also what happened with MM, so now, I'm starting to wonder whether Matt is right in wanting to lynch him. I think it's pretty safe to assume he's not on Wilgy's team, or am I wrong?

This and that are not the same.

I was ready to give up and be lynched on Day 3 before I was talked out of it.

Explain.

Jay asked me for reads and thoughts, and persisted that I stay determined, so I did.

I didn't think I'd have a chance at survivng. But then also decided that there's more to this game then me winning or not. I decided that I would support anyone who believed in me or gave me a chance. DH was the first person to give me a chance and say "Hey guys, MM might be telling the truth".

To those who think I'm a malevolant Indy, I want to hear why they think that.

Tell me why the first underline answers your question in the second underline.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. You're not indy bad, just bad. Btw, did you seriously just accuse juliets because she thinks you're indy/bad as opposed to just bad? Like, did Dom's top suspect just tell the player who Dom proclaimed to be civ that she may be on the mafia team he is accused of being on?

Baddies have attempted to get me lynched. I have no intent to support them. I also stated several days ago I'd much rather see the civs win in this game than the baddies.

As much as I don't like your continued pursuit of me Matt, I do admire your effort and think you are sincere.

DharmaHelper wrote:Anybody curious why Sorsha seems to think being off the poll means she can not contribute anything to the discussion?

You're convinced I'm bad so why would anything I have to say mean anything to you?

I could be convinced to vote for almost anyone at this point. Draco and motel being higher on the list... I'm almost inclined to follow matts vote for mm but I'm not sure I trust Matt either. Matt could be right about the Dom/mm thing and just be on the opposite team though. I still think Mac is civ, despite his defense of wilgy, although I think it's kinda weird how easy Mac has been on Matt this game.

Matt wrote:Anyway, it doesn't matter. You're not indy bad, just bad. Btw, did you seriously just accuse juliets because she thinks you're indy/bad as opposed to just bad? Like, did Dom's top suspect just tell the player who Dom proclaimed to be civ that she may be on the mafia team he is accused of being on?

You think my neutral claim is convenient.

Believing that I am a Bad Indy is also convenient.

As a baddie, this would be a method to promote my lynch while also conceding some accuracy after my flip. As a civilian, I don't see an obvious way to state that someone is a bad Indy instead of a baddie, especially since juliets admitted she could easily sway the other direction. What do you think about that statement from juliets?

Why are you so upset that someone thinks you're a baddie indy? I'm not promoting that we vote for you. Shouldn't we be talking about baddies instead of going around in this circle?

I'm not at all upset.

I think I have found a baddie, and want to discuss this idea.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I'm not at all upset.

I think I have found a baddie, and want to discuss this idea.

If you think it's me you are wrong. The role checker for god's sake said I was civ. I don't understand why you would think a gut feel that calls for NOT VOTING FOR YOU is some kind of baddie move.

I find it strange that only now is Metalmarsh drawing an OMGUS line in the sand. I think juliets is totally onto something.