The Syndicate

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:22 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:18 pm I promised to talk some more about my c4 suspicion. It seems he has gained sufficient momentum since last night anyway, but I will still dump my thoughts into the thread.

Something that I feel is sometimes true about mafia members is that they struggle to actively pursue suspicions. It is one thing to name suspects and place votes, but it is another to flesh out reads and have them develop in real time. Making up fake arguments about a person about why they are lying when you know that they are not can be a difficult thing to do, especially when the person you are targeting is capable of being more vocal than you about it. The result is a bunch of stagnant suspicions that fail to take off, with more energy spent arguing (truthfully) about why certain players are town instead of mafia.

I think I see this trend playing out in c4's posts. Observe:

Spoiler: show

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:53 pm [VOTE: Creature] aubergine

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:23 pm The fact that Creature can only bring himself to talk about one thing so far is wolfy.

The fact that he's clearly beenfollowing along live for a reasonable amount of time given how quickly he voted nut makes it wolfier.

The fact that it's a piece of mechanical information also makes it wolfier.

The fact that it's an obviously fake redcheck also makes it wolfier.

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:39 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:34 pm Is soup kill a thing?

Derp denied

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:05 pm @Sloonei post

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:20 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:14 pm I feel like I shouldn't be the one towncasing myself

Then lemme do it

Creature's strings of posts of talking to himself came off as pure and more drawn out than w!Creature would bother with

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 5:04 pm

Porscha wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 5:03 pm

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 5:00 pm [VOTE: Porscha] aubergine

Sup

hey gamer what's poppin

You feel wolfy from a glance

Are you a wolf?

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 8:12 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 8:10 pm C4, shoot:

Scotty (scummy)

Bo (as KZA wanted)

or

Wilgy (as he requested)

Could totally shoot Scotty

Bo seems to be genuinely enjoying himself and is decently polarized but since both of you know him better do you have specific insights?

Wilgy lolno

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 8:26 pm Yeah Mac isn't towny lul

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 9:19 pm Ender townreaders talk to me about Ender pls

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 9:30 pm [VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine

Where's that spark I saw in RYM 96

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 9:46 pm

alexa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 9:44 pm i think paopan may be town rn based on his response and my spiritual vote is not on him, just haven't figured out where to go yet

@dyachei what's your read on me rn?

I have an idea of where you can go

Were you paying attention to Sloonei's posting in RYM perchance? It was miles townier than this even with low engagement.

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:59 pm I'm very tempted to just shoot Sloon

Etc.

C4's most substantive Day 1 posts are an exchange with Porscha that lists reasons to suspect her, but never develops in any meaningful way. The rest of c4's Day 1 feels like aimless prodding and asking for direction on who to shoot. I am lacking the full context leading up to his decision to shoot Bo, but based on c4's posts alone I do not find his process to be all that convincing.
The suspects c4 does prod for most of Day 1 are easy options. He starts with Creature, whose playstyle invites suspicion, especially early on. Then he shifts to Porscha, an unfamiliar face with light activity. Then he spends a few posts prodding me with no direction because of my absence/lack of spark. But c4 never actually put real pressure on me. He demanded that I post and then didn't have anything to say to me when I did.

Compare all of this to the amount of time and energy c4 puts into townreading people on Day 1. I am having trouble finding any evidence that he is making a sincere effort to uncover suspects. He steps in to declare town reads every once in a while, and then gropes around listlessly at potential suspects. I'm uninspired by all of this. If c4 is town, I need to see him demonstrate that he is actually trying to develop reads on players.

Finally gonna properly cover this thing.

The actual point you're making and how you're landing at the expectations you have are beyond me.

In terms of the specific pushes you describe,

The Porscha push developed into exactly what it was meant to develop into, which was a wolf read and push, and saying otherwise just looks like word salad. It was literally "this is why Porscha is a wolf" followed by voting Porscha followed by asking people to vote Porscha followed by getting people to vote Porscha. I'm stunned that I have to explain this.
Creature, sure, but we can agree that doesn't mean much on its own.
My push on you was not to pressure you. I voted you and called you a wolf because I thought you were a wolf. Extrapolating more and then saying "But why didn't c4 follow my manual on pressuring players in order to pressure this player he wasn't trying to pressure?" is just disingenuous.

It is true of me in general that I townread more people than I scumread, and villagers have pushed me plenty for it historically, but like, what the fuck is this? Was there a word minimum you were shooting for here or something? It's like every time you almost say a reason I'm a wolf, you stumble, then say, "Hm, I don't know what to write here. Let me add the nearest objective observation and word it dramatically."

Regretting saying this in some amount because your posting has improved a lot and I think you're town.

ilario wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 8:59 am Soup mechanics are so incredibly frustrating to play around

If I learnt anything from this game it’s that

Creature wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:01 am

ilario wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 8:59 am Soup mechanics are so incredibly frustrating to play around

If I learnt anything from this game it’s that

Wolves can also easily fake green checks on each other

ilario wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:00 am

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:22 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:18 pm I promised to talk some more about my c4 suspicion. It seems he has gained sufficient momentum since last night anyway, but I will still dump my thoughts into the thread.

Something that I feel is sometimes true about mafia members is that they struggle to actively pursue suspicions. It is one thing to name suspects and place votes, but it is another to flesh out reads and have them develop in real time. Making up fake arguments about a person about why they are lying when you know that they are not can be a difficult thing to do, especially when the person you are targeting is capable of being more vocal than you about it. The result is a bunch of stagnant suspicions that fail to take off, with more energy spent arguing (truthfully) about why certain players are town instead of mafia.

I think I see this trend playing out in c4's posts. Observe:

Spoiler: show

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:53 pm [VOTE: Creature] aubergine

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:23 pm The fact that Creature can only bring himself to talk about one thing so far is wolfy.

The fact that he's clearly beenfollowing along live for a reasonable amount of time given how quickly he voted nut makes it wolfier.

The fact that it's a piece of mechanical information also makes it wolfier.

The fact that it's an obviously fake redcheck also makes it wolfier.

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:39 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:34 pm Is soup kill a thing?

Derp denied

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:05 pm @Sloonei post

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:20 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:14 pm I feel like I shouldn't be the one towncasing myself

Then lemme do it

Creature's strings of posts of talking to himself came off as pure and more drawn out than w!Creature would bother with

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 5:04 pm

Porscha wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 5:03 pm

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 5:00 pm [VOTE: Porscha] aubergine

Sup

hey gamer what's poppin

You feel wolfy from a glance

Are you a wolf?

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 8:12 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 8:10 pm C4, shoot:

Scotty (scummy)

Bo (as KZA wanted)

or

Wilgy (as he requested)

Could totally shoot Scotty

Bo seems to be genuinely enjoying himself and is decently polarized but since both of you know him better do you have specific insights?

Wilgy lolno

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 8:26 pm Yeah Mac isn't towny lul

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 9:19 pm Ender townreaders talk to me about Ender pls

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 9:30 pm [VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine

Where's that spark I saw in RYM 96

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 9:46 pm

alexa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 9:44 pm i think paopan may be town rn based on his response and my spiritual vote is not on him, just haven't figured out where to go yet

@dyachei what's your read on me rn?

I have an idea of where you can go

Were you paying attention to Sloonei's posting in RYM perchance? It was miles townier than this even with low engagement.

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:59 pm I'm very tempted to just shoot Sloon

Etc.

C4's most substantive Day 1 posts are an exchange with Porscha that lists reasons to suspect her, but never develops in any meaningful way. The rest of c4's Day 1 feels like aimless prodding and asking for direction on who to shoot. I am lacking the full context leading up to his decision to shoot Bo, but based on c4's posts alone I do not find his process to be all that convincing.
The suspects c4 does prod for most of Day 1 are easy options. He starts with Creature, whose playstyle invites suspicion, especially early on. Then he shifts to Porscha, an unfamiliar face with light activity. Then he spends a few posts prodding me with no direction because of my absence/lack of spark. But c4 never actually put real pressure on me. He demanded that I post and then didn't have anything to say to me when I did.

Compare all of this to the amount of time and energy c4 puts into townreading people on Day 1. I am having trouble finding any evidence that he is making a sincere effort to uncover suspects. He steps in to declare town reads every once in a while, and then gropes around listlessly at potential suspects. I'm uninspired by all of this. If c4 is town, I need to see him demonstrate that he is actually trying to develop reads on players.

Finally gonna properly cover this thing.

The actual point you're making and how you're landing at the expectations you have are beyond me.

In terms of the specific pushes you describe,

The Porscha push developed into exactly what it was meant to develop into, which was a wolf read and push, and saying otherwise just looks like word salad. It was literally "this is why Porscha is a wolf" followed by voting Porscha followed by asking people to vote Porscha followed by getting people to vote Porscha. I'm stunned that I have to explain this.
Creature, sure, but we can agree that doesn't mean much on its own.
My push on you was not to pressure you. I voted you and called you a wolf because I thought you were a wolf. Extrapolating more and then saying "But why didn't c4 follow my manual on pressuring players in order to pressure this player he wasn't trying to pressure?" is just disingenuous.

It is true of me in general that I townread more people than I scumread, and villagers have pushed me plenty for it historically, but like, what the fuck is this? Was there a word minimum you were shooting for here or something? It's like every time you almost say a reason I'm a wolf, you stumble, then say, "Hm, I don't know what to write here. Let me add the nearest objective observation and word it dramatically."

Regretting saying this in some amount because your posting has improved a lot and I think you're town.

jpic thoughts on this post?

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:10 am @ilario

Not sure if you saw my post about the interaction between c4, marmot and dizzy?

ilario wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:13 am

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:10 am @ilario

Not sure if you saw my post about the interaction between c4, marmot and dizzy?

If it’s in the last 10ish pages then nah I’m still catching up

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:14 am

ilario wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:13 am

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:10 am @ilario

Not sure if you saw my post about the interaction between c4, marmot and dizzy?

If it’s in the last 10ish pages then nah I’m still catching up

cool, was on the last page

ilario wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 3:29 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 2:49 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 2:35 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 2:33 pm

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 2:31 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 2:31 pm I'm failing to pinpoint even one wolf

towny

This shade is annoying me

I will always find "hope we lynch a wolf, gosh this game is sooooo hard, I can't find wolves!" type of posts scummy

i will never understand how ur mind works lol

ilario wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 7:55 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 7:55 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 7:52 pm I've misread falcon a bunch lately, thinking scum when he's town. This time he doesn't feel like either, at least not his usual meta. But in a vacuum I find him a bit too appeasing. His read on me is too confident. Unless there are raisins I just don't know how long I can keep ignoring him and hoping something happens to help me settle on an opinion.

Oh FFS



I have a green check on you



Go ahead and soup me Maf

this seems kinda abrupt? i have thoughts about this but wont out it out loud for a specific reason

ilario wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 6:55 am Guillo has asked alota questions today that’s sorta went nowhere

ilario wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 6:55 am I’m voting him again

ilario wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 6:58 am Fwiw I can possibly see town!sig shooting Nutella, I can possibly see town!sabie shooting ender, but I can’t see them both being town with wolves having almost no kp if that’s the case. So I kinda wanna blast them both and see which one flips wolf (idt both are )

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:06 am

ilario wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:01 am

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 8:58 am

ilario wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 8:53 am True, it does involve me doing some preflipping but I also felt like you didn’t really believe in any of those pushes as you were doing them, maybe I’m just confbiased rn

Which trs and srs do you feel strongest about rn?

I feel strongly about Creature and belzy from the non-confirms.

Feel mildly decent about c4, nutella and MR and others that i can't remember from the top of my head.

I don't have any super strong scum reads so far over than im casting my eye at TSP who knows how to read me well and hasn't really made an attempt to solve me as far as I can tell.

Aighttt Ty for this

Can you elaborate on why u tr those people?

Belzy - I think they were the first one to call dizzy scum? Doubt a partner would bus dizzy that early when they had potential to go very deep imo. There was a derp they had iirc and i remember a post from them on day 1 whcih made me snap townread them.

C4 reminds me of his town game in Yolo's invitational. Do you feel the same way there?

ilario wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:04 am

Creature wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:01 am

ilario wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 8:59 am Soup mechanics are so incredibly frustrating to play around

If I learnt anything from this game it’s that

Wolves can also easily fake green checks on each other

There’s so many bs claims and no way to verify them

Next game I play with soup I’m gonna policy anyone who does a claim for no reason other than they’re on their deathbed and it’s 10 mins away from being voted out

Guillotine wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 11:11 am

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:06 am

ilario wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:01 am

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 8:58 am

ilario wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 8:53 am True, it does involve me doing some preflipping but I also felt like you didn’t really believe in any of those pushes as you were doing them, maybe I’m just confbiased rn

Which trs and srs do you feel strongest about rn?

I feel strongly about Creature and belzy from the non-confirms.

Feel mildly decent about c4, nutella and MR and others that i can't remember from the top of my head.

I don't have any super strong scum reads so far over than im casting my eye at TSP who knows how to read me well and hasn't really made an attempt to solve me as far as I can tell.

Aighttt Ty for this

Can you elaborate on why u tr those people?

Belzy - I think they were the first one to call dizzy scum? Doubt a partner would bus dizzy that early when they had potential to go very deep imo. There was a derp they had iirc and i remember a post from them on day 1 whcih made me snap townread them.

C4 reminds me of his town game in Yolo's invitational. Do you feel the same way there?

Two things about the bolded statement.

1) Why did you think Dizzy could have deep wolfed if not stopped by Belzy?

2) Did you think this before or after Dizzy flupped.

3) Proof that Belzy would bus Dizzy early as scum: https://www.mafiacafe.net/forum/standar ... ame-thread

Im giving Belzy temporary credit for putting shading Dizzy but if she outlives you when she should be dead because she is hard spewed town by Dizzy and wolves gotta kill that, then slmething must be up.

alexa wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 8:11 pm i am clearing HK for meta reasons NGL. he feels very different than the game he was a wolf. but i did the same thing to lag last game and was very wrong so i'm getting paranoid, especially because the way he claimed earlier felt like something i'd do as wolf to divert pressure. does anyone have good meta/a good read on HK?

Phil and Gloria wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 7:19 am @Guillotine I'm sorry I betrayed you to make it up to you I will not vote you now lol

ilario wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 3:03 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:45 pm have work to do
but want to outpost alexa

make meme

@alexa this feels like tsps derpy town game idkkkk

ilario wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 7:53 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 7:50 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 8:18 pm [A bunch of town reads on people]

In any case, I feel the game is in a pretty ok spot consensus-wise.

I have some concerns about Mac. Feels like he's not really landing any of his thoughts, and they seem to be a bit all over the place, which I find scummy for him.
I'm also suspicious of Scotty, feel like his posts are just awkward, trying to chime in but not really going anywhere.
Sabie is meh.

I think these are the things I've been thinking about the most.

The Mac suspicion is new here. It feels oddly placed if they are teammates, unless they had cooked up a plan to distance from one another and then Dizzy suddenly realized he'd forgotten about it.

I'm tempted to throw a townie point at Phil & Gloria here because Dizzy specifically names Mac as a suspect. I feel like if this is distancing, Dizzy would have naturally referred to the hydra account as a hydra, rather than singling out one of its two heads.

Everyone’s called the slot mac all game

I bet u 80% of the slots here don’t even know the name of the other head if u asked them on the spot so imo that’s just nai

alexa wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 11:38 am i could be convinced to swap to 112 but still think he looks good in relation to dizzy/marmot

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 11:38 am alexa do you just want to kill me because you're upset that i keep voting you

112 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 7:44 pm uhh, recanting my seanzie read if it matters at this point

marmot, sabie, dizzy are all good suspects imo

and i could easily see BK as a wolf in this one

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 11:44 am @ilario how many more posts does Alexa need to be SBPC cleared