The Syndicate

Ricochet wrote:

G-Man wrote:Ah, but what if Roslin was NK'd? When did the amnesty act take effect?

*looks back at Golden's ISO*

It was Day 3. We had the missed kill on Night 3 and Scotty and Spacedaisy got NK'd since then. If one of them was Roslin, then maybe sig was next in the line of succession?

Honestly the impeachment angle makes more sense to me than Gaius have a mechanic to get himself elected. What say those knowledgeable in show lore? Anything there to help us on this one?

Gaius Baltar was never in the line of succession.

Good eye.

Rico, top five suspects GO

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

G-Man wrote:Ah, but what if Roslin was NK'd? When did the amnesty act take effect?

I suppose that's also plausible. I don't know what'd cause the delay though since the line of succession is pre-determined. There should be no need for an entire day to progress before Roslin's replacement is determined.

And why wouldn't it take effect immediately? Say Roslin gets NK'd one of those nights and sig is next in line of succession. Someone thought the Marmot Protection law was rooted in a prophecy of Roslin's, which makes sense for something so specific and cryptic.

If Roslin was NK'd Night 4 or Night 5, the replacement (sig?) could have taken effect immediately. That would still allow for the theorized impeachment mechanic when Glorfindel claimed and made sig the lynch poll leader. An impeachment mechanic would add a level of protection to a PotC, possibly as a check and balance to the rezz ship thing. Instead of dying, they are just impeached? Maybe Gaius has a mechanic where he can usurp power in the event of an impeachment or maybe there are no more successors left after sig, leaving things wide open for someone else to jump in?

I think the impeachment theory cannot work since Baltar is not in the original Presidential line of succession. An impeached Roslin would likely be replaced within that line, unless Lee Adama and Tom Zarek are somehow both dead.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I think the impeachment theory cannot work since Baltar is not in the original Presidential line of succession. An impeached Roslin would likely be replaced within that line, unless Lee Adama and Tom Zarek are somehow both dead.

And why couldn't that be possible with four people having been NK'd? If there is no one left in the line of succession (which was a short list to begin with), why couldn't someone else fill the power vacuum?

You say sig makes no sense as Roslin because he was so opposed to the amnesty law. I agree. So maybe Roslin died at some point after the amnesty law and sig took over but the other person in the line of succession was already dead. With a line of succession so short, the chances of becoming leaderless at some point are pretty fair. Given all the crazy antics we've seen so far, don't you think Golden the Coward would have something in mind for such a situation?

G-Man wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I think the impeachment theory cannot work since Baltar is not in the original Presidential line of succession. An impeached Roslin would likely be replaced within that line, unless Lee Adama and Tom Zarek are somehow both dead.

And why couldn't that be possible with four people having been NK'd? If there is no one left in the line of succession (which was a short list to begin with), why couldn't someone else fill the power vacuum?

You say sig makes no sense as Roslin because he was so opposed to the amnesty law. I agree. So maybe Roslin died at some point after the amnesty law and sig took over but the other person in the line of succession was already dead. With a line of succession so short, the chances of becoming leaderless at some point are pretty fair. Given all the crazy antics we've seen so far, don't you think Golden the Coward would have something in mind for such a situation?

I do figure there'd be a solution to that problem, yes. It strikes me as rather unlikely that two or three of the four night kills would happen to be the entire Presidential succession line, but it's a possibility.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Rico, top five suspects GO

rabbit
...and
...

Ugh. Can I, like, read into the Day Six affair tomorrow and get back with a fresh list? If sig and Glorfindel are to be deemed good out of this outcome, that makes two of my prior suspects gone. Although, if both sig and Glorfindel were headed for a mislynch, ISOing their lynchers could equally prove inconclusive.

I'm looking at the poll and there's, like, half of it on which I don't recall when I last had a read, update or suss on them.

I find Gaius' ascent to the PotC rank could be a predetermined lore event (save for Gaius dying until then), just like Cain's arrival was. No idea what to read into G-Man's theory.

Ricochet wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Rico, top five suspects GO

rabbit
...and
...

Ugh. Can I, like, read into the Day Six affair tomorrow and get back with a fresh list? If sig and Glorfindel are to be deemed good out of this outcome, that makes two of my prior suspects gone. Although, if both sig and Glorfindel were headed for a mislynch, ISOing their lynchers could equally prove inconclusive.

I'm looking at the poll and there's, like, half of it on which I don't recall when I last had a read, update or suss on them.

No, you can't. You're not legally obligated to read sig and Glorfindel as good. If you're not sold on that then say so.

I feel like I've just walked into a movie theatre 2/3rd's of the way through the flick, but from what I've read since I've joined the game, I'd agree with the idea that sig/glorfindel (which is a fun name to type) do seem very similar to Baltar/Six. Enough so that it makes me kind of wary of going fully against them, just in case they are good and can help the civvies.

Ol' Weasely Wabbit is being extra Wabbity so far this game, enough to make me cock an eyebrow his way.

That being said, it'll probably take me a while to come up with any worthwhile theories, since I don't have any past knowledge and only half-understand the game at all. The most I'll be able to do is point at things and say "Yeah, I agree with that!"

insertnamehere wrote:That being said, it'll probably take me a while to come up with any worthwhile theories, since I don't have any past knowledge and only half-understand the game at all. The most I'll be able to do is point at things and say "Yeah, I agree with that!"

I think that's an advantage for you, honestly. You're not going to be subject to any of the biases that the rest of us might have after six game cycles of nonsense. You have the unique ability to just read every player at face value, independent of prior game circumstance, and state your perspective. I think that's a valuable asset.

If you should happen to make an assertion that is contextually implausible or unlikely I'm sure someone'd say so anyway.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Rico, top five suspects GO

rabbit
...and
...

Ugh. Can I, like, read into the Day Six affair tomorrow and get back with a fresh list? If sig and Glorfindel are to be deemed good out of this outcome, that makes two of my prior suspects gone. Although, if both sig and Glorfindel were headed for a mislynch, ISOing their lynchers could equally prove inconclusive.

I'm looking at the poll and there's, like, half of it on which I don't recall when I last had a read, update or suss on them.

No, you can't. You're not legally obligated to read sig and Glorfindel as good. If you're not sold on that then say so.

I haven't properly re-analysed their content to say if I'm sold or not on the idea. Re: Glor as Cylon I could say I'm still wary of him, based on his discourse during rebuttals, claiming and game input. Sig's survival would point at mechanics (a lynch stop? a one-time lynch survival? something else?) and maybe place him in civ camp, although couldn't the mafia also have access to a stop, in light, for instance, of Dee's potential to mess with one of their night kills. So I find this not concludent, either.

I have no other suspects in the back of my mind besides these three.

There's definite potential for the baddies to have some kind of lynch immunity/prevention beyond the amnesty act. If it weren't for the Baltar election coinciding with sig's "lynch", I might suspect him even more than I did before.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:That being said, it'll probably take me a while to come up with any worthwhile theories, since I don't have any past knowledge and only half-understand the game at all. The most I'll be able to do is point at things and say "Yeah, I agree with that!"

I think that's an advantage for you, honestly. You're not going to be subject to any of the biases that the rest of us might have after six game cycles of nonsense. You have the unique ability to just read every player at face value, independent of prior game circumstance, and state your perspective. I think that's a valuable asset.

If you should happen to make an assertion that is contextually implausible or unlikely I'm sure someone'd say so anyway.

Like Epi said, we've lynched three Cylons (Epi, Nute, Lorab), currently know about two other specific cylons among us (Wilgy, Glorfy), we effed up Admiral Cain...

Why call it nonsense?

I'm pretty proud of town tbh.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:There's definite potential for the baddies to have some kind of lynch immunity/prevention beyond the amnesty act. If it weren't for the Baltar election coinciding with sig's "lynch", I might suspect him even more than I did before.

Agreed. Sig was my #2 suspicion. It's very difficult for me to do a complete 180 on him but I am trying to keep an open mind. Glorfindel could have voted for sig to save himself but he did not. I'm unsure if that is just his higher-level nobility or trying to avoid bussing a teammate. Call me crazy but, given everything else we've seen out of Glorf this far, I feel more inclined to believe it's the former.

Matt wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:That being said, it'll probably take me a while to come up with any worthwhile theories, since I don't have any past knowledge and only half-understand the game at all. The most I'll be able to do is point at things and say "Yeah, I agree with that!"

I think that's an advantage for you, honestly. You're not going to be subject to any of the biases that the rest of us might have after six game cycles of nonsense. You have the unique ability to just read every player at face value, independent of prior game circumstance, and state your perspective. I think that's a valuable asset.

If you should happen to make an assertion that is contextually implausible or unlikely I'm sure someone'd say so anyway.

Like Epi said, we've lynched three Cylons (Epi, Nute, Lorab), currently know about two other specific cylons among us (Wilgy, Glorfy), we effed up Admiral Cain...

Why call it nonsense?

I'm pretty proud of town tbh.

I don't think town is in a bad position. This is a confusing game with a lot of nonsense, some of the nonsense might even be perfectly valid. :P

G-Man wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:There's definite potential for the baddies to have some kind of lynch immunity/prevention beyond the amnesty act. If it weren't for the Baltar election coinciding with sig's "lynch", I might suspect him even more than I did before.

Agreed. Sig was my #2 suspicion. It's very difficult for me to do a complete 180 on him but I am trying to keep an open mind. Glorfindel could have voted for sig to save himself but he did not. I'm unsure if that is just his higher-level nobility or trying to avoid bussing a teammate. Call me crazy but, given everything else we've seen out of Glorf this far, I feel more inclined to believe it's the former.

Let's ask Glorfindel himself.

Glorfindel:

Why did you vote for Black Rock instead of attempt to save yourself (and perhaps aslo your immunity) with a sig vote?

G-Man wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:There's definite potential for the baddies to have some kind of lynch immunity/prevention beyond the amnesty act. If it weren't for the Baltar election coinciding with sig's "lynch", I might suspect him even more than I did before.

Agreed. Sig was my #2 suspicion. It's very difficult for me to do a complete 180 on him but I am trying to keep an open mind. Glorfindel could have voted for sig to save himself but he did not. I'm unsure if that is just his higher-level nobility or trying to avoid bussing a teammate. Call me crazy but, given everything else we've seen out of Glorf this far, I feel more inclined to believe it's the former.

Glorfindel was leading 5-4 against sig. Save himself from being tied (which rabbit incidentally did, afterwards), I presume?

As far as nobility goes, sig voted Glor, though, in case they're actual lovers or whatnot.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

G-Man wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:There's definite potential for the baddies to have some kind of lynch immunity/prevention beyond the amnesty act. If it weren't for the Baltar election coinciding with sig's "lynch", I might suspect him even more than I did before.

Agreed. Sig was my #2 suspicion. It's very difficult for me to do a complete 180 on him but I am trying to keep an open mind. Glorfindel could have voted for sig to save himself but he did not. I'm unsure if that is just his higher-level nobility or trying to avoid bussing a teammate. Call me crazy but, given everything else we've seen out of Glorf this far, I feel more inclined to believe it's the former.

Let's ask Glorfindel himself.

Glorfindel:

Why did you vote for Black Rock instead of attempt to save yourself (and perhaps aslo your immunity) with a sig vote?

Cuz they're teamies. Good or bad, I dunno, but I'm leaning good.

But yes, Glorfy, what up?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

rabbit8 wrote:I evade stupidity at all costs.....

If only it worked.

No, you evade sound arguments.

Sure, go with that.

Good to have you back Rabbit.

Dex wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:I think both Dex and Polo deserve a very close look

That is the soooouuuuuuuund... of cylons

Cylon and Garfunkel?

Matt wrote:Cuz they're teamies. Good or bad, I dunno, but I'm leaning good.

But yes, Glorfy, what up?

I've a thought: if they're known team mates (regardless of alignment), the implication would be some kind of BTSC, yeah? If so, wouldn't Glorfindel know whether sig has any kind of mechanical lynch immunity in his role, which would influence his willingness or non to vote for sig?

Matt wrote:

rabbit8 wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

Matt wrote:Also, President Gaius (whether that be sig or rabbit or even Epig)...

lolque!

Yeah... I finally agree with you on something.

I literally just threw out two random names.

I don't have any reason to believe that Rabbit and/or (especially) Epi are president material.

Matt wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

G-Man wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:There's definite potential for the baddies to have some kind of lynch immunity/prevention beyond the amnesty act. If it weren't for the Baltar election coinciding with sig's "lynch", I might suspect him even more than I did before.

Agreed. Sig was my #2 suspicion. It's very difficult for me to do a complete 180 on him but I am trying to keep an open mind. Glorfindel could have voted for sig to save himself but he did not. I'm unsure if that is just his higher-level nobility or trying to avoid bussing a teammate. Call me crazy but, given everything else we've seen out of Glorf this far, I feel more inclined to believe it's the former.

Let's ask Glorfindel himself.

Glorfindel:

Why did you vote for Black Rock instead of attempt to save yourself (and perhaps aslo your immunity) with a sig vote?

Cuz they're teamies. Good or bad, I dunno, but I'm leaning good.

But yes, Glorfy, what up?

Why did sig vote for Glorfindel?

These are all fantastic questions.

I don't have the answers to them.

If sig knew that Glorfindel was a friendly Cylon (and I don't know how he would know that), voting for him instead of pushing someone else's lynch makes zero sense.

Epignosis wrote:If sig knew that Glorfindel was a friendly Cylon (and I don't know how he would know that), voting for him instead of pushing someone else's lynch makes zero sense.

sig was the last to vote, I think, so pushing anyone else's lynch at that point would be futile.

Again, the only way these two are good, IMO, is if sig is Gaius. The way they've been town reading each other since Day 3/Night 4 (Glor reading sig good, sig reading Glor good respectively) makes me think Glorfy could be Six IF sig is Gaius.

Does town believe sig is Gaius?

Matt wrote:

Epignosis wrote:If sig knew that Glorfindel was a friendly Cylon (and I don't know how he would know that), voting for him instead of pushing someone else's lynch makes zero sense.

sig was the last to vote, I think, so pushing anyone else's lynch at that point would be futile.

Again, the only way these two are good, IMO, is if sig is Gaius. The way they've been town reading each other since Day 3/Night 4 (Glor reading sig good, sig reading Glor good respectively) makes me think Glorfy could be Six IF sig is Gaius.

Does town believe sig is Gaius?

sig didn't have to be the last to vote, and if he knew Glorfindel would not be lynched, he knowingly wasted his vote. What I am saying is that if he knew Glorfindel was good, then his vote in any context makes no sense.

G-Man wrote:Honestly the impeachment angle makes more sense to me than Gaius have a mechanic to get himself elected. What say those knowledgeable in show lore? Anything there to help us on this one?

I'm going with 3Js idea that sig winning the lynch was the trigger for the New Caprica event. It just rings true to me. At the same time I feel it is of little consequence and am not worked up enough about it to debate the point.

Matt, your idea of the sig/glorf connection is a lovely idea and seemingly has actual thread proof to back it up, but is only spoiled by being wrong. For the first time, we have a Cavil faction cylon's throat under our heel in Glorf. Please let's not let this opportunity wiggle away. Crush him.

Matt wrote:

Epignosis wrote:If sig knew that Glorfindel was a friendly Cylon (and I don't know how he would know that), voting for him instead of pushing someone else's lynch makes zero sense.

sig was the last to vote, I think, so pushing anyone else's lynch at that point would be futile.

Again, the only way these two are good, IMO, is if sig is Gaius. The way they've been town reading each other since Day 3/Night 4 (Glor reading sig good, sig reading Glor good respectively) makes me think Glorfy could be Six IF sig is Gaius.

Does town believe sig is Gaius?

Second to last.

Epignosis wrote:sig didn't have to be the last to vote, and if he knew Glorfindel would not be lynched, he knowingly wasted his vote. What I am saying is that if he knew Glorfindel was good, then his vote in any context makes no sense.

Agreed. I think the Gaius/Caprica Six civilian BTSC thing is extremely speculative anyway. Gaius is already an cylon checker, I doubt he's a mason too.

Golden wrote:Cylon and Garfunkel?

Well, we DID lynch Simon...

Dex wrote:

G-Man wrote:Honestly the impeachment angle makes more sense to me than Gaius have a mechanic to get himself elected. What say those knowledgeable in show lore? Anything there to help us on this one?

I'm going with 3Js idea that sig winning the lynch was the trigger for the New Caprica event. It just rings true to me. At the same time I feel it is of little consequence and am not worked up enough about it to debate the point.

Matt, your idea of the sig/glorf connection is a lovely idea and seemingly has actual thread proof to back it up, but is only spoiled by being wrong. For the first time, we have a Cavil faction cylon's throat under our heel in Glorf. Please let's not let this opportunity wiggle away. Crush him.

Why sig winning and not Glof losing? If he is a bad cylon it makes more sense from a balance sense that after the first cylon to claim is saved the act would be repealed and bad shit would happen.

rabbit8 wrote:

Dex wrote:

G-Man wrote:Honestly the impeachment angle makes more sense to me than Gaius have a mechanic to get himself elected. What say those knowledgeable in show lore? Anything there to help us on this one?

I'm going with 3Js idea that sig winning the lynch was the trigger for the New Caprica event. It just rings true to me. At the same time I feel it is of little consequence and am not worked up enough about it to debate the point.

Matt, your idea of the sig/glorf connection is a lovely idea and seemingly has actual thread proof to back it up, but is only spoiled by being wrong. For the first time, we have a Cavil faction cylon's throat under our heel in Glorf. Please let's not let this opportunity wiggle away. Crush him.

Why sig winning and not Glof losing? If he is a bad cylon it makes more sense from a balance sense that after the first cylon to claim is saved the act would be repealed and bad shit would happen.

Except LoRab and Wilgy were saved before by this very act.

rabbit8 wrote:Why sig winning and not Glof losing? If he is a bad cylon it makes more sense from a balance sense that after the first cylon to claim is saved the act would be repealed and bad shit would happen.

I'm not worked up enough about it to debate the point, but Glorf was not the first to be saved by the Amnesty Act.

You all may be correct, but I still think it's possible sig is Gaius, and if so, I think it's possible Glorfy is good.

Again, who thinks sig could be Gaius?

Anyway, I'm out for the night. Good luck town, evade those NK's k?

Matt wrote:You all may be correct, but I still think it's possible sig is Gaius, and if so, I think it's possible Glorfy is good.

Again, who thinks sig could be Gaius?

Anyway, I'm out for the night. Good luck town, evade those NK's k?

I think sig is Gaius, but I'll say otherwise if that makes you entertain the idea the Glorf is anti-Cavil.

Matt wrote:Again, who thinks sig could be Gaius?

For the moment I think he's more likely to be Gaius than anyone else. I don't think that implies anything about Glorfindel though.

Rabbit8 suggested the event could be triggered by the first bad cylon being saved, which could be Glorfindel. It's plausible.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Rabbit8 suggested the event could be triggered by the first bad cylon being saved, which could be Glorfindel. It's plausible.

Holy fuck, I will actually respect you now. I couldn't before because I've never been able to fuck with you.

I'll give you an answer to at least 1 question you ask, any one? Maybe...

A countereffect of a law that's in no way mentioned in that law sounds like too much crazy stuff happening backstage.

rabbit8 wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Rabbit8 suggested the event could be triggered by the first bad cylon being saved, which could be Glorfindel. It's plausible.

Holy fuck, I will actually respect you now. I couldn't before because I've never been able to fuck with you.

I'll give you an answer to at least 1 question you ask, any one? Maybe...

Who do you think looked good and who looked bad emerging from the nutella lynch?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Rabbit8 suggested the event could be triggered by the first bad cylon being saved, which could be Glorfindel. It's plausible.

I concede the point. I'll even endorse it if it means accepting that Wilgy is anti-Cavil.

Dex wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Rabbit8 suggested the event could be triggered by the first bad cylon being saved, which could be Glorfindel. It's plausible.

I concede the point. I'll even endorse it if it means accepting that Wilgy is anti-Cavil.

You keep saying anti-Cavil -- do you literally mean "not aligned with Cavil" or "on Cavil's team"? You called Glorfindel anti-Cavil too.

Ricochet wrote:A countereffect of a law that's in no way mentioned in that law sounds like too much crazy stuff happening backstage.

Balancing effect. I used them in a lot of my games.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

rabbit8 wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Rabbit8 suggested the event could be triggered by the first bad cylon being saved, which could be Glorfindel. It's plausible.

Holy fuck, I will actually respect you now. I couldn't before because I've never been able to fuck with you.

I'll give you an answer to at least 1 question you ask, any one? Maybe...

Who do you think looked good and who looked bad emerging from the nutella lynch?

Okay. I will reread the lynch and you will get an answer before night ends.

rabbit8 wrote:Okay. I will reread the lynch and you will get an answer before night ends.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:You keep saying anti-Cavil -- do you literally mean "not aligned with Cavil" or "on Cavil's team"? You called Glorfindel anti-Cavil too.

I'm trying to come up with replacement terms for civ and mafia, which I think are murky in this game. We have two sets of cylons, though; the Cavil faction (mafia), and the anti-Cavil faction (civ).

Glorfindel is Cavil faction.

Dex wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:You keep saying anti-Cavil -- do you literally mean "not aligned with Cavil" or "on Cavil's team"? You called Glorfindel anti-Cavil too.

I'm trying to come up with replacement terms for civ and mafia, which I think are murky in this game. We have two sets of cylons, though; the Cavil faction (mafia), and the anti-Cavil faction (civ).

Glorfindel is Cavil faction.

Agreed.

Every time I look back at my Black Rock case I become more sold on her being bad. Her treatment of LoRab during the nutella lynch is nonsense.

Polo wrote:

Dex wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:You keep saying anti-Cavil -- do you literally mean "not aligned with Cavil" or "on Cavil's team"? You called Glorfindel anti-Cavil too.

I'm trying to come up with replacement terms for civ and mafia, which I think are murky in this game. We have two sets of cylons, though; the Cavil faction (mafia), and the anti-Cavil faction (civ).

Glorfindel is Cavil faction.

Agreed.

Add me to the list who hold this view.