The Syndicate

Russtifinko wrote:Rico, I see your point here. If you think this is such a big deal, though, why are you bringing it up 8 days later? I agree that not posting a case is a faux pas, but I think the statute of limitations has run out, there.

Diiny wrote:Rad for now, big rereading emphasis on choutas rico and straw

But I really don't want to reread rico.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:b) Long Con, as others had stated, has an incredibly complex game that he is hosting right now that he needs to look after. Also, his plan on Day 1 appeared to backfire. So going into Day 2, he had plenty of reason to want out of this game, and for other people to want his head. Still, it's a bit hypothetical, and we've already seen that 3 of his 8 voters are not mafia. On the other hand, let's take a look at the numbers. There were 30 players alive at the time of his lynch, and 11 alive now (36.6 %). There were 8 players that voted in the Long Con lynch, and 5 of them are still alive now (62.5 %). I'd argue that offers a decent likelihood that there is at least one mafia on the Long Con lynch with there being such a drastic difference in survival percentages.

c) MacDougall was a very vocal, and also a well-vouched for player in the thread. His lynch was extremely close, and he had several vocal supporters in his defense, and he's a damn good mafia player. If he was bussed, it certainly wasn't planned, and is more likely to have been a late attempt. Let's look at numbers here too. 21 players were alive when MacDougall was lynched, and 11 are alive now (52.4 %). 7 players voted for Mac on his lynch, and 4 are still alive (57.1 %). Those numbers are significantly closer together, and suggest that MacDougall was not bussed.[/list]

motel room wrote:Oh yeah, and oh yeah Bullzeye was sanmateo.

Ricochet wrote:

Choutas wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

Choutas wrote:

Ricochet wrote:Choutas, why did you vote LC without a vote post? I think your vote came after the last post you made on D2, so why did you not return till the end of that phase (apologies if I don't remember any specifics about this absence)? Why did you return and took a "oh look I caught a scum" stance, considering you've said nothing about hunt LC - so, de facto, you haven't done any real hunting?

I get your suspicion about that frankly I didn't think much about it at the time. It's my first Syndicate game after all. Living in Europe I voted in case the day ended without my vote(on rym you get modkilled for missing two day votes). Regrettably I didn't post it in the thread and I need to take the blame for that for sure, however in the end it wasn't a damning vote for a townie lynch but rather a pretty deciding vote for a scum lynch. I was lucky, I skimmed through most cases and for some reason I don't even remember tbh LC stood out as the most suss. To answer the last sentence I read other player's reads, I didn't make my own case but the final judgement was mine so you have to take my word for it.

An "I agree with others on LC" or something like that would have sufficed, for the stuff you say in the second half. I can't take your word for something not posted in-thread.

Also, I can relate myself to 3-4-5am deadlines being a total bitch, but really? That's your justification for always voting early? Your D2 departure didn't even happen on the EoD day, but with more than 24 hours before! Judging by the posts, you voted around that time as well.

Nah I've said why I believed Floyd was scum. I made my case on different days also. You compare two completely different things. Just because I voted LC early without my own case doesn't mean I voted the subsequent days without a case. Today haven't I put forth reasons to vote for Bullzeye? The comparison is dangerous and misleading. I vote early to create my own wagons on people I consider scum. I don't like to hop on other player's reads unless I am completely AWOL all day or clueless on reads.

Either we misunderstand each other a bit, or huh? I've asked you questions specifically about LC's lynch Day and you now claim you've given me an answer that related to Floyd and to your game in general?

Yes, I pushed a bit too much the voting mentality you mentioned into questioning if it's your tactic at any time, sorry about that. Nonetheless: How can "Living in Europe I voted in case the day ended without my vote(on rym you get modkilled for missing two day votes)." apply to D2? That's my dillemma. You voted and vanished with more than a day to go. That's hardly danger of missing an EoD.

Ricochet wrote:

Diiny wrote:Rad for now, big rereading emphasis on choutas rico and straw

But I really don't want to reread rico.

Re-read JJJ, then.

Diiny wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

Diiny wrote:Rad for now, big rereading emphasis on choutas rico and straw

But I really don't want to reread rico.

Re-read JJJ, then.

don't even joke

(tfw Eloh's not here anymore to laugh )

Diiny wrote:@Choutas, that stuff about playing better if you were scum is both wifommy and not that true when you consider how floyd was doing some pretty nooby stuff despite having the scum team on his side to help him.

Strawhenge wrote:Order of operations:

Lynch Metalmarsh
Lynch Choutas
Celebrate a town victory

Choutas wrote:

Ricochet wrote:Choutas, why did you vote LC without a vote post? I think your vote came after the last post you made on D2, so why did you not return till the end of that phase (apologies if I don't remember any specifics about this absence)? Why did you return and took a "oh look I caught a scum" stance, considering you've said nothing about hunt LC - so, de facto, you haven't done any real hunting?

I get your suspicion about that frankly I didn't think much about it at the time. It's my first Syndicate game after all. Living in Europe I voted in case the day ended without my vote(on rym you get modkilled for missing two day votes). Regrettably I didn't post it in the thread and I need to take the blame for that for sure, however in the end it wasn't a damning vote for a townie lynch but rather a pretty deciding vote for a scum lynch. I was lucky, I skimmed through most cases and for some reason I don't even remember tbh LC stood out as the most suss. To answer the last sentence I read other player's reads, I didn't make my own case but the final judgement was mine so you have to take my word for it.

Choutas wrote:Nah the other post is the same post where you quote yourself. It isn't another person. My response covers both since it's the same post with one additional post. You seriously need to start using logic and not accuse me why I quoted one post and not the other when my response covers both since it's the same quote pyramid with one additional quote with the same goddamn question. You must be horrible playing this game. I can't attribute it to any other reason.
I told you I thought I was targeted. You ask me why. You want proof. Do you want me to give you my role pm? Seriously do you want me to screenshot and post? Do you? I don't use another's material to make that point, I use mine. You have to take my word for it. But you clearly won't. Until apparently I break into MP's mod and uncover all the pms regarding the case and post them online I'll forever be your suspect. Again you're really bad at playing this game. You can't call a bullshit when someone says he knows something that can not be proved by any lawful means.

Seriously if you're scum golden raspberry of the year.

Choutas wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Choutas, you're telling me that we've been reading and going back and rereading and making cases all day today, and 5 minutes before the deadline, you're going to "put your neck out" with an obscure comment that looks borderline OB?

What?

JUST TRUST ME. Seaside is town. This lynch will end up killing a townie.

Choutas wrote:You either trust me or you don't. Seriously I am fuckin' putting my neck right now.

Strawhenge wrote:
Also, no one has answered me this entire game about why some people are so sure that the SK has only killed townies. Why the [censored]ing [censored] are some people so certain of this? Answer me dammit. What are the odds that...

Strawhenge wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Are there any players you think should be off the table for this lynch, Straw?

At this point, no. I think y'all are scum. Every last one of you.

Nah, but really, everyone has given me reason to think they're anti-town. Maybe Russti the least so, but that's based on a gut read I had about six, seven years ago.

Strawhenge wrote:Also, no one has answered me this entire game about why some people are so sure that the SK has only killed townies. Why the [censored]ing [censored] are some people so certain of this? Answer me dammit. What are the odds that...

Diiny wrote:Everyone voting for choutas, are you assuming his infodumping thing was a gambit/lies? How are you handling that part of his history?

Choutas wrote:

Diiny wrote:@Choutas, that stuff about playing better if you were scum is both wifommy and not that true when you consider how floyd was doing some pretty nooby stuff despite having the scum team on his side to help him.

You're right it's WIFOM. It doesn't matter much since I've taken responsibility for that action anyway.

Choutas wrote:MM was right I can't ball.

Diiny wrote:Everyone voting for choutas, are you assuming his infodumping thing was a gambit/lies? How are you handling that part of his history?

Diiny wrote:

Diiny wrote:Everyone voting for choutas, are you assuming his infodumping thing was a gambit/lies? How are you handling that part of his history?

this should read 'suspecting' tbh.

Also marshy and wilgy I want answers

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Diiny wrote:Everyone voting for choutas, are you assuming his infodumping thing was a gambit/lies? How are you handling that part of his history?

I've never heard of this before.

I recall the craziness at the end of the Day 8 phase though, in which he pleaded us to switch off of seaside.

Diiny wrote:

Diiny wrote:Everyone voting for choutas, are you assuming his infodumping thing was a gambit/lies? How are you handling that part of his history?

this should read 'suspecting' tbh.

Also marshy and wilgy I want answers

What's your beef Diiny?

Diiny wrote:He was pleading us to NOT vote seaside, but couldn't say why because it'd be illegal or some shit. Lemme get the quotes

Choutas wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Choutas wrote:Fwiw I am not down for a seaside lynch. I am putting this now cause there is a strong wind to that direction.

Neat, why not?

Infodumping.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Linki: what Choutas?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Diiny wrote:Isn't using 'infodumping' as an answer just infodumping?

Yes, and so is lying about having info, or fake-infodumping.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Diiny wrote:He was pleading us to NOT vote seaside, but couldn't say why because it'd be illegal or some shit. Lemme get the quotes

Fixed.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Quick note: had we appealed to Choutas's cries for us to not lynch seaside, we'd have probably lynched TheFloyd73 instead. Let that settle in your little tummies.

Ricochet wrote:I don't give green skittles (read: defend) to my teammates, if I happen to be mafia with them. This is my 10th mafia game on this site, if you think I'm that much of a dumbass to do that, then you clearly don't know a single thing about me.

Diiny wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Quick note: had we appealed to Choutas's cries for us to not lynch seaside, we'd have probably lynched TheFloyd73 instead. Let that settle in your little tummies.

Too close to call between floyd and yourself that day, but good shout.

Surely this guy looks terribad from your perspective?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
--- Russtifinko ---

I don't have anything against voting early. But in Choutas's case, he's placed his vote early consistently, and left it the rest of the day. It looks like he has his mind made up going into the day phase that he wants to vote so-and-so, but never strays. If something else comes up during a day phase, he doesn't act on it, with the one exception I pointed out.

And I understand he lives in Europe. But these are 48 hour day phases, and he consistently votes early in the first 24 hours. The one time he did change his vote recently, he did it within an hour of the deadline.


But my suggestions disagrees with the idea that Strawhenge would have information on me. So I'm asking what everyone else thinks and why he still managed to convince three players to follow his vote on Day 8. I already have an idea in mind, but I'm still going to ask.

Spoiler: show

Russtifinko wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:b) Long Con, as others had stated, has an incredibly complex game that he is hosting right now that he needs to look after. Also, his plan on Day 1 appeared to backfire. So going into Day 2, he had plenty of reason to want out of this game, and for other people to want his head. Still, it's a bit hypothetical, and we've already seen that 3 of his 8 voters are not mafia. On the other hand, let's take a look at the numbers. There were 30 players alive at the time of his lynch, and 11 alive now (36.6 %). There were 8 players that voted in the Long Con lynch, and 5 of them are still alive now (62.5 %). I'd argue that offers a decent likelihood that there is at least one mafia on the Long Con lynch with there being such a drastic difference in survival percentages.

c) MacDougall was a very vocal, and also a well-vouched for player in the thread. His lynch was extremely close, and he had several vocal supporters in his defense, and he's a damn good mafia player. If he was bussed, it certainly wasn't planned, and is more likely to have been a late attempt. Let's look at numbers here too. 21 players were alive when MacDougall was lynched, and 11 are alive now (52.4 %). 7 players voted for Mac on his lynch, and 4 are still alive (57.1 %). Those numbers are significantly closer together, and suggest that MacDougall was not bussed.[/list]

Science!

So has anyone done or seen an analysis of survival rates among a player's voters before? This is totally new to me.

The idea appeals, since baddies have an NK. If they bus a teammate, they can't kill themselves, so statistically they're less likely to die than everyone else (although that's somewhat mitigated with an SK in the game). Is there actually an effect we can observe where bussed baddies' voters have a higher survival rate than non-bussed ones'? Or could this also be attributable to early game vs. late game or some other factor.

--- Russtifinko ---

I've never seen nor heard of this sort of number-crunching before. It just occured to me that there were a lot of players left that voted Long Con on Day 2, and so I just decided to compare numbers.

Feedback is very welcome to this idea.

Also, Bullzeye is not actually sanmateo. He just replaced him in this game, so Bullzeye from RYM for the sake of this game.

Diiny wrote:Fuzz is only looking worse after the sig result, probably my scummiest read. I'm also looking at rico as hard as I can without ruining my quality of life significantly. Still looking at straw pretty hard, too, my tinfoil companion is enjoying itself there.

Choutas is difficult as fuck for me, becuase I really don't know how to feel about his infodumping thing. But as I was typing this, something occured to me: it would be really, really easy for scum to fake knowing that someone was town because of infodumping because scum know exactly who scum is by default, sans the possibility of sk-ness. I really want to ask more about the infodumping lark but I don't want to get modkilled. How far can I go?

Russtifinko wrote:

Diiny wrote:Fuzz is only looking worse after the sig result, probably my scummiest read. I'm also looking at rico as hard as I can without ruining my quality of life significantly. Still looking at straw pretty hard, too, my tinfoil companion is enjoying itself there.

Choutas is difficult as fuck for me, becuase I really don't know how to feel about his infodumping thing. But as I was typing this, something occured to me: it would be really, really easy for scum to fake knowing that someone was town because of infodumping because scum know exactly who scum is by default, sans the possibility of sk-ness. I really want to ask more about the infodumping lark but I don't want to get modkilled. How far can I go?

I think MP said to PM him if you're ever not sure. I obviously can't speak for him, but the rule of thumb I use is: If it's game related, and it is something I know or was presented to me as fact (like those role checks that can be wrong), then I don't reference it or even reference the fact that I know it in thread. I know others are a little looser about this, but I'm a hardliner against info dumping so I've never pushed it.

Choutas wrote:Wilgy don't use yellow when you colour sentences it hurts my eyes. Go for blue or orange.
Also Wilgy would you catch me if I fall?

Diiny wrote:Everyone voting for choutas, are you assuming his infodumping thing was a gambit/lies? How are you handling that part of his history?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Finally home. I'm going to jump right back into my project here, but if y'all have pressing concerns for me just stick 'em in my face and I'll try to maintain dialogue as a I go. My focus will be on ISOmania though.

Matt F wrote:Bullz is here! Bullz, look at my case on Rico. A lot different then my "wild theories", am I right?

Bullzeye wrote:

Matt F wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:It certainly isn't wild. Or crazy. Some of it is even reasonable. I dunno how I feel about it personally though, I like and dislike it. I would have to think on it more to reach a satisfactory conclusion.

You're killin' me smalls.

Well, I mean, I know Crazy Matt very well. Sane Matt I'm not as familiar with. The fact I think your case isn't Crazy must mean something right? I expected you'd be happy that I don't think you're insane for a change.

Russtifinko wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: Linki: Diiny, which shenanigans? Info dumps? I'm always against them, categorically. When info dumps have happened in previous games, I've decided to play as closely as I could to pretending they never happened. (See Mikhail Rasputin in the X-Men game for an example of me doing that and people hating it. Luckily I was immune to lynches!)

Did you see my post asking you for your current suspicions? Any definitive ideas on specific players?

Russtifinko wrote:Wait, JJJ is going to post MORE of those enormous cases?? Lord ha' mercy.

DrWilgy wrote:

Diiny wrote:Everyone voting for choutas, are you assuming his infodumping thing was a gambit/lies? How are you handling that part of his history?

I don't think that it's genuine, you have to take my word for it though.