[END] Talking Heads Mafia (RYM #90)

[Diiny]

BY POSTING 1000 POSTS, YOU, JJJ, HAVE AWOKEN THE MAFIA GENIE.

Spoiler: show

He speaks in a booming, yet calm voice that resonates deep within your soul:

"WHAT IS YOUR WISH?"

[Diiny]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Reassessment of RadicalFuzz:

Spoiler: show

This is strange.

Diiny, I need you to talk to me. If I have developed any ability to read Syndicate games at all yet, I'd say you're the most likely player on Day 1 to be lynched right now as a direct result of your recent content. If you're town, I need you to give me confidence of that with open and continuous dialogue. You're an asset if you're on my side, but for the moment I harbor doubts.

This and several other posts from J3 are almost literally asking Diiny to townread him. Is this common for J3, or have they worked together extremely well in the past?

You're a town read now, congratulations.

Thanks? I'm concerned about how quickly you're forming your conclusions, though. I've made a few posts and, unless you're basing your opinion of me on what Reywas said or did when he was here, that's not very much information. I get that you're looking for town reads, but you're almost too hasty, it's disconcerting.

For most of Fuzz's time in this game he has been a consistent town read, so I think it's important to review his content to try to determine why -- and whether those town gut reads should stick now in a later situation independent of whatever evidence-based case might be built. I highlight this post first because I think it illustrates the perspective that initially read town to me (indeed, more town than I would anticipate from a player just replacing in). I threw a challenging and weird read in his face moments after his arrival (called him a town read when he had like four posts) and let him handle that however he may.

He responded with trepidation and said my hasty read was disconcerting. This is the kind of thing I like to see: he doesn't know me at all or what kind of player I am, so to be confronted with an abrupt town read like I gave him should be disconcerting. I think most mafia-aligned players are more inclined to shrug this off quietly or with a joke, but not all. If Fuzz is mafia, he has already shown a fantastic skill for portraying the townie mindset in the earliest portions of his post history. It's why I read him as a townie for so long.

Spoiler: show

Thanks? I'm concerned about how quickly you're forming your conclusions, though. I've made a few posts and, unless you're basing your opinion of me on what Reywas said or did when he was here, that's not very much information. I get that you're looking for town reads, but you're almost too hasty, it's disconcerting.

The most important role you play as a newly replacing in player in a game this massive, especially for a player with nearly no posts, is to assert yourself in such a manner that you can be read fairly. Moreover, the rest of us are especially tasked with assessing your content, whether it's substantive or light, and getting you the heck out of the neutral pile.

The fact that you've bothered to look deep enough into the older sectors of this thread to find the post of mine that you highlighted -- and raise a point that I can understand you raising since you don't know me -- is a good look for you. It shows me that you're invested in your position as a replacement in this game, and in trying to figure out how to get a read on people. It's good enough for me to say you're a town read now.

Doesn't mean I will love you forever and we'll drift away into the sunset, but for now I think you're headed in a positive direction.

That's a much more logical answer than I'm used to getting. I like you. I'll be sure to change your mind at some point.

By the way, you never did answer my question. Is that common for you, to want to cooperate with as many civilians as possible, or is it specifically Diiny?

I suppose Fuzz was rather quick to accept my explanation. At least he continued pressing me on my Diiny interaction though.

Spoiler: show

bcornett, I know you're finishing your post right now, but I have a question after you're completed. Why do you have Wilgy as "possibly scum?"

I also disagree with you on your suspicion of J3, at least regarding post count. Having more posts to analyze is always a good thing. It can definitely be tricky because there's so much information, yes, but you have that player's opinions and analyses on essentially everything.

Brian had expressed suspicion of me because he thought I might deliberately inflating my post count to insane heights to dissuade people from actually reviewing my ISO. Fuzz turned this accusation aside, though his reasoning for doing so might not be totally consistent: it seems to imply that there are advantages to town for a mafia JJJ to have so much information in his posts. This is not the same thing as seeing the town side of JJJ posting so much, which is what I'd expect to be the focus of this soft defense.

Spoiler: show

@Wilgy & J3:
What was your opinion of Reywas before he had to take his leave?

Two trends from Fuzz's early ISO are visible in this post. First, he has repeatedly addressed specific players in the thread with specific questions, and second he has sought people's perspectives of him. I think there are two fronts on which this can be read:

1. Fuzz is a townie who thrives on direct communication with other players as a means of adding substance to his read on them. I consider this a staple of my own methods, so I understand the mindset well.

2. Fuzz is a mafioso who has elected to simulate his hunting interests by isolating questions to specific players, with those questions often being somewhat bizarre.

#1 resonates with me a lot like I said, and that also contributed to my early town read on him. #2 is not a stretch though, I think it's perfectly believable that a person could adopt this strategy (especially when replacing into a highly active game thread) as a mafioso to appear involved and engaged without necessarily getting into the dirty work.

Spoiler: show

Floyd, I have a question. How much of the game have you read?

And, to others, Floyd is not a replacement, correct?

Floyd, I have a question. How much of the game have you read?

Do you mean the thread text?

Yes, Floyd, how much of the thread text have you read?

I highlighted this exchange for reasons already stated in my prior cases. I'm not going to say more about it now, it may come up again later in this review. Highlighting for my own reference.

Spoiler: show

Mac, if you're confident all three are bad vote J3 with me.

By the way J3 I'm voting for you.

Day 4 vote for me, as well as a call to MacDougall to help take me out.

Day 4 vote: JaggedJimmyJay (2nd of 2)

There's content in his posts that suggests suspicion of me. There's also a mild defense of me. And he asked me questions. I am the central focus of his earliest content, which I suppose would make this an unsurprising vote. This was the day when Sorsha was lynched with Devin as the primary counterwagon, so Fuzz's vote was off-wagon.

Spoiler: show

Mac, if you're confident all three are bad vote J3 with me.

By the way J3 I'm voting for you.

Can a man get a reason?

My home site, Jesus Toast Mafia, is named after a term we coined "Jesus Toast." It's seeing Christ on rye, so to speak, some big conspiracy that ties everything up in a neat little bow when there's really nothing there.

That's what I'm seeing with you. You're holding to your Long Con analyses, which are good sources of information, but seem to be almost ignoring new, relevant information. You're quick to call people town, which on its own isn't a bad thing, but it's off-putting for some reason I can't put my finger on. You play the cooperative townie, not confrontational but prodding with just enough frequency to get responses.

I know there's no fair defense to what mostly amounts to a gut feeling, and I apologize for that.

Explains his vote to me. He grants that it's essentially a gut read but he does try to put it into meaningful words. This is another example of a Fuzz post that bears a townie appearance on the surface and influenced my early gut town read on him.

Spoiler: show

Matt, I'm not quite following you. You say that specifically because you underlined the word "job" MacDougall believed you to be the role "Found a Job" and backed off? Do you think that's more likely than Mac backing off simply because he was being ridiculously aggressive?

This still reads awkwardly to me, not because of how it's worded but because of its place in this ISO. Fuzz did say at one point that it is his preference to play the game in the present (meaning he is less likely to engage in lengthy reviews instead of maintain real-time dialogue), so I guess that would suit him communicating with Matt about his SK theory for Mac. I think the reason I am bothered by this is that Fuzz found a way to cast doubt on Matt's perspective and indirectly defend Mac's play in one sentence -- a sentence that doesn't serve to affect Fuzz's actual read on Mac. I'm struggling to convey this thought clearly though, it's a lot of gut at work. I think I'm trying to say that this post can only function to benefit Mac and that it doesn't evidence Fuzz has a personal investment in getting a read on Mac's alignment.

Spoiler: show

If you're going to be an ass then I'll let you deal with your situation. You've convinced me, so you're doing swimmingly so far. Best of luck.

Criticism is not what you posted, Mac.

Mafia that don't kill every night can inherit a killer's powers when that killer dies and can then kill every night? I am apparently unfamiliar with certain trends on this site, including the "must be alive to win" clause present in most games. I don't get it.

Fuzz's interaction with Mac at this point is otherwise only mildly adversarial. They exchange a few barbs but it never escalates into anything serious.

Spoiler: show

On the topic of espers, he was the first to respond to me. He asked why I was concerned about getting lynched, when I had posted that I would still be mostly silent for about two days. He has not responded or otherwise engaged me since.

For what it's worth, I believe that Mac's reaction to Matt F's accusation looks good. Timeline of his responses spoilered below:
10:58 - Laughs at how "tragically hilariously wrong" Matt F is.
10:59 - Responds to me, saying the entire scenario is too likely, implying Matt F is the real Serial Killer.
11:03 - Sarcastically asks the hosts to confirm that the Mafia cannot be the Serial Killer.
11:04 - Explains that making the poster for Matt F's lynch was for amusement.
11:05 - Says he didn't notice the italics on the word "job" because he was too busy teasing Matt F.
11:06 - Says he might make a big post giving reasons why everyone in this game is an idiot.
11:08 - Suggests the possibility that the failed kill was performed by the civvie kill role and made to look like the SK's kill by some other role.
11:18 - States anger at Matt F for sucking at Mafia and begins looking through the roles for an explanation.
11:25 - First attempted explanation of the events of last night.
11:30 - Gloats.
11:32 - Claims his theory (his words) is in fact an explanation.
11:37 - Responds to MM's overeager prods by calling the rest of us dumb shits playing like idiots.
11:41 - Goes back to not giving a shit.
11:54 - Calls MM, Epi, and I jerkwads who are confirmed scum.

There's no attempt at any sort of logical defense for roughly half an hour. I believe if he was Mafia then there's a good chance he would've attempted to explain away the accusation, even if with the same response, earlier. He reads chaotic, but not panicked, to me. You others who know him can decide if that's "normal" behavior or not.

Roxy, I'm sorry for your loss. Pets are family too, and it's hard when their time is up.

Mac, the reason I'm frustrated is because I don't see a standard. I don't know what is and isn't allowed, all I know is there are rules about not being an ass. Then I see you calling people jerkwads, idiots, dumbshits, saying someone's penis will shrivel up inside them. I don't care about the language, my home site has zero filter and I honestly prefer it that way. This is infuriating because I'm trying to adhere to these rules that I have no objective measure of while you clearly don't care what comes out of your mouth and have made a game of spouting shit out of boredom. That's why I got fed up with you yesterday.

He made this defense of Mac when the thread was largely turning against Mac. One can give Fuzz credit for taking a stand against the thread's momentum and providing a substantive case for why, or at least I can since I did the same thing. He was obviously just as wrong as I was though so his motivations can be fairly questioned.

Spoiler: show

J3 do you find town boring?

Splints the first engagement I had in thread was someone trying to insinuate that I was Mafia. I'm not going to pity you for biting off more than you can chew when you signed up to be a sub or for nobody answerinf a question you asked once. Don't just ask once then get annoyed, ask again, ask until everyone gets so sick of seeing the question that they answer it just to make you stop.

This was the second time he asked me this question. Again I like that he was persistent about seeing his thought process all the way through to a conclusion even if the question doesn't seem to offer much opportunity for real insight.

Day 5 vote: espers

He contributed to the espers wagon that I got rolling, with Devin as the doomed counterwagon. There are a few mentions of espers earlier in Fuzz's posts, but he doesn't quite convey clear suspicion or a case. The closest he came was to engage me about the matter of espers's alignment. He did lament that espers was not interacting with him after their initial exchange though.

~~~

I'm content with where I stand on this review. I've illustrated that Fuzz has done a good job of conveying a town-seeming mindset. On this front I think he might be the opposite of Russ (passed the evidence test, failed the eye test). Fuzz fails the evidence test and passes the eye test. There is one key moment where he fails the eye test though, at least for me, and it continues to be a massive hangup in my ability to read him as a townie:

I'd like to hear what everyone thinks of Fuzz in light of a specific point. When asked why he didn't pursue Floyd after his "thread text" slip (which occurred in a conversation between Floyd and Fuzz), these were Fuzz's answers:

Diiny I didn't push him because I didn't want to lynch him in his first game for that. It was emotion-driven ignorance. I thought he might become engaged in his defense, but that was not the case. I don't regret not pushing him, I'd do it again every time.

Diiny you are correct. I thought I made that abundantly clear at the time. I posted that I found it objectively scummy but wasn't going to personally pursue it. I attempted to be clear that I was aware my decision was an illogical one.

It's not being nice, it's wanting to give him a chance to fail. My first game I was Mafia and made a comeback for the win. I have a large ego and enjoy it when other people fail things I succeeded at. It falls under "illogical" all the same. I'm curious though, are you going to vote me for it?

He has made a claim that must either be taken or left at face value. I'm going to leave my own perspective on the matter at the door for now. I just want to hear what the rest of you think when you read these responses.

It isn't immediately alarming to me that Fuzz did not mention Floyd's scumslip as a slip until two day phases after the fact. I didn't mention it as a scumslip when it happened either and I was active in the thread. The problem here is his explanation for why he didn't mention it.

If he'd said: "Well, J3, I honestly didn't register it as a scumslip until later. It didn't really occur to me in the moment."

I might be okay with that. Instead, he said that he knew it was a bad-looking potential slip, and that he declined to mention it as a nice gesture to Floyd the new player.

I don't know how I am supposed to believe that at face value. That sounds like a lie. And a lie in this scenario is not a good look. The only other moment in this game that made me feel this way was when Black Rock claimed she was only throwing shade at Roxy to "get her in the thread". This just a dubious way of explaining away a point of suspicion that I don't think fits inside a townie mindset. How could it? Heck, if it is to be believed, then I would sooner attribute the maneuver to the serial killer than to a townie.

If I can't reconcile this problem, I can't be anything but suspicious of RadicalFuzz. Even for all of the town-inclined gut reads I've had on his exploratory/investigative posts, this problem is too significant for that to change my perspective.

Conclusion / TL;DR

Is this guy mafia-aligned? More likely than average

Is this guy the serial killer? Average likelihood

[Strawhenge]

No sleep until we find all the scum, Diiny.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I won't be able to review everyone like I wanted to before the day phase ends. I will have to prioritize certain players above others tomorrow night. I am willing to field requests though from anyone who might want to see a full reassessment of a specific player. I may or may not comply.

Based upon my current perspective of this thread, I am most inclined to endorse a lynch of RadicalFuzz or Bullzeye. I might be able to be convinced on Russ. I still need to look at what Strawhenge has produced on Choutas, because that was not a lynch I entered this phase wanting to pursue. I pledge to do so Straw -- bug me about it tomorrow if I forget.

So much to do so little time. At least Day 11 will be a weekend.

When I get this invested in a game I start to actually emotionally hate the mafia. Despise. I feel bad now, y'all are just playing your roles and having fun in a Mafia game. I'm sorry. But please die.

[Marmot]

Jay thinks 630 posts is just something to sneeze at.

[Marmot]

But seriously bed calls.

[motel room]

i've gone Bullzeye for now.

[Ricochet]

Syndicate new record! Wooooo!

apparently the inception noise is one of the horn stabs from slowed down a bazillion times in accordance with dreams going super slowly or whatever

Yeah! I know! Isn't that rad?! #shameless #nolanfanboy

I just watched it again recently and seriously I could watch it any time of any day, just to have it on. I love it and I don't care who knows it or thinks it's bandwagony to like a popular Nolan movie. My love knows no bounds. GAHHHHHHHHH

(imagine that I haven't taken a breath this whole post)

Link

See you there, Straw.

Who I Think Is Scum: A Rainbow List

Ricochet ★★½

God...dammit!

Top secret:

In past games, most of the time when I have made a "rallying cry" type of post to try to motivate the town to action, the people who have been most willing to take me up on that have been bad guys.

Hi Russ, hi Choutas, hi Marsh, hi Rico.

Just don't prove to be bad, k? I like the stuff in my house.

[Strawhenge]

Who I Think Is Scum: A Rainbow List

Ricochet ★★½

God...dammit!

That's a neutral read!

[Strawhenge]

i've gone Bullzeye for now.

Por quoi?

[Strawhenge]

Jay thinks 630 posts is just something to sneeze at.

how the hell am I in the top 10 posters? how?

[Strawhenge]

i've gone Bullzeye for now.

Por quoi?

Additionally, I don't really buy Choutas's case on Bullz. It seems like the most superficial case, perhaps in the entire history of this our planet earth.

Convince me, Keej.

[Strawhenge]

wow there arent even guests in here

im all alone

help

[Ricochet]

DrWilgy

Start up position in relation to LC

	LC with others	others on LC
Wilgy	Neutral	Negative

Votes according to Marsh

Spoiler: show

DRWILGY

Spoiler: show

Day 1 - birdwithteeth (1st of 7) (5th of 31)
Day 2 - Long Con (4th of 8) (11th of 29)
Day 3 - Sorsha ---> Golden (4th of 7) (21st of 26)
Day 4 - bcornett24 ---> Devin the Omniscient (8th of 9) (22nd of 24)
Day 5 - bcornett24 (1st of 1) (1st of 23)
Day 6 - MacDougall (1st of 7) (1st of 19)
Day 7 - bcornett24 (1st of 1) (12th of 18)
Day 8 - Metalmarsh89 (4th of 4) (16th of 17)
Day 9 - Choutas ---> sig (4th of 5) (14th of 16)

Wilgy - Black MacCon - Wilgy

Spoiler: show

Interactions with LC
-- votes LC bad D2, not reading his bea interaction genuine; returns with a proper case
-- (post-lynch) D2 wagons analysis;
comes up with Sorsha as suspect, although at the same time disputes the idea of another defenders, Golden, being so blatant
-- (post-lynch) inquires JJJ and Seaside on b24 revision, post-LC-lynch
-- (post-lynch) jumps off Sorsha vote after revising LC wagon
-- (post-lynch) finds Russ wagon on D3 "dumb" based on his analysis that Russ is unlikely busser; only sees Russ bad if b24 flips bad as well
-- (post-lynch) quotes a Diiny post in which Diiny suspects him, but addresses Fuzz's interactions. que?

Interactions with MacBaddie
-- questions Mac D4 on keeping vote on Sorsha; further read on his Sorsha statements
-- asks for a Mac lynch. on D4!
-- questions Mac on his Sorsha lynching policy, demands clear viewpoints
-- questions Mac after Sorsha's mislynch on info results
-- D5 would vote for Mac, but prefers b24
-- D6 inquires Mac's targets the previous Night
-- votes Mac
-- defends against him and Mac pulling stuff together in the thread, still calls Mac scum, regardless of believing his SK theories
-- further input on how baddie/SK theories might fit
-- emoji fending of Mac voting him
-- emoji fending of Mac agreeing with Fuzz on Wilgy suss

Interactions with Black Rock ("briefcase", "bribe", "brunette"...no "BR" though; sounds like a doctor alright)
-- reads her bad in D7 GTH

LC interactions with Wilgy
-- congratulated Wilgy on becoming CEO, finds votes for him natural
-- only comments on Wilgy's suss of gameplay claimers

MacBaddie interactions with Wilgy
-- reads him bad in D3 GTH
-- questions Choutas on finding Wilgy good
-- displeased with Wilgy's color vote analysis, referencing a scum gambit
-- D4 OMGUS
-- fends off Wilgy's post-Sorsha-lynch inquiry by saying he should be lynched
-- demands comments from Wilgy (and Sig) D5
-- doesn't have Wilgy in his D5 GTH top 6
-- D5 reiterates that he finds Wilgy's efforts pretty smokebomb-ish
-- compares Wilgy's analysis with Rico's, calling on both throwing BS at him with these techniques
-- jumps on RF's suspicions of Wilgy
-- puts Wilgy in his final top 6 scum list
-- self preservation vote on Wilgy
-- asks motel to vote Wilgy

Black Rock interactions with Wilgy
Nada.

Votes
D1 votes BWT for gameplay claims
D2 votes LC for bea case and flip
D3 votes Golden for coming off the worst in his math analysis
D4 votes Devin for...???
D5 votes b24 over Mac
D6 votes Mac
D7 back on b24

Read
Couple of pinges (his midway analysis leading to no good results or any discernible interpretations; the GTH on Black Rock without any prior mention of her or his suspicions on her; the D4 Devin unreasoned vote), but otherwise I don't feel there's that much dirt in his pockets. Elaborating a case on LC instead of leaving a vote hanging on him reads good (instead of potentially cooked) in my book; his Mac casing feels based on confirmed scumtells, so again it makes me feel he had a good interpretation of it rather than trying to rip a crevasse between the two of them (although he still felt less inspired to go with Mac on D5, compared to D6). Mac's hissing at him feels cooked, tbh. Future doctor in music Rico recommends mildly keeping Wilgy in check, perhaps upon any flip on b24 (which he keeps suspecting) and Russ (which he rather exonerates based on D2 lynch).

Wilgy - Floyd - Wilgy

Spoiler: show

Interactions with Floyd
-- D3 incomprehensible analysis of votes including Floyd
-- D6 inquires Floyd (alongside Mac, Matt, Fuzz) who did he target last Night, thinking... he was one of those who prevented the double kill?
-- continues to mention Floyd in night kill questionings
-- judges Fuzz on not inquiring Fuzz directly and not voting Floyd until he is more involved
-- reads him bad in D7 GTH
-- has b24 higher than Floyd on "would lynch" D7 list
-- has Choutas higher than Floyd on "would lynch" D8 list (instead voted MM)

Floyd interactions with
-- N4 OT "fan" post about Wilgy's reaction...to b24's agenda...?

Read
My read was null to bemused (I mean, that inquiry on Epi was borderline requesting info-dumps, right) until it turned slightly sour reading his D7 and D8 brush by constant mentions of wanting to lynch Floyd, but not more than others. Not sure what to make of this. I'd probably add to the other few pinges I got from his other interactions.

Vote record stands at three mislynches (BWT, Golden, sig), one vote on a civvie wagon (Devin), two baddie lynches (LC, Mac), one recurrence (b24, three times), one unconfirmed (MM).

Vote timing varies quite a bit: midway on LC, rather late on Golden, very late on Devin, first voter on D5 and pretty left field too (b24), first voter again on D6 on MacBaddie, late vote on D7 in the midst of seaside wagon, very late again D8 and D9.

Entourage-wise, he's still

-- in company of four players (Choutas, motel, JJJ, Russ) on the LC wagon D2
-- in my company on Golden wagon D3
-- in the company of JJJ, Bull and myself on Devin D4
-- solo on b24 D5
-- in the company of myself, MM and Russ on the Mac lynch D6
-- solo on b24 D7
-- in the company of Strawhenge and myself D8
-- in the company of Choutas, motel, Fuzz and myself D9

So the greatest recurrence would be...me! But knowing I'm good, I don't get any other voting-alonside-teamie vibe from this, to be honest. Actually, if sig had scum votes on his the previous Day, I feel Wilgy's vote was civilian, compared to others, who look more suspicious in my book. This correlates also well with some of the players (Choutas, motel) showing up together with Wilgy on the LC vote, but showing up on the Diiny counterwagon on D6, whereas Wilgy voted for MacBaddie to go down. Circumstancial, of course, but who knows.

I still have Wilgy down with a few pings - his several analyses that didn't go anywhere or seem to be understandable; his CEO reference subtle but insistent thing; his occasional vote drifts - but not much worse than that. From the interactions, only the Floyd one looks a bit iffy, meanwhile my feeling of his LC and Mac casings and votes remains that they feel proper, certainly better looking that how most of us come out looking for those particular angles.

If there's one thing I'd probably go back and check is how genuine his decisions to drift with his in b24's direction were - especially on D7, when his vote can read like utter refusal to participate not just on seaside's wagon, but any of the three wagons.

Alas, no time left this morning. Later.

[a2thezebra]

wow there arent even guests in here

im all alone

help

I'm dead, no can do.

[Diiny]

Went to sleep, woke up, went to uni cafe and some time during those actions remembered that I don't like it when people 'reset their reads.' I distinctly remember scum sloonei playing that card, and, just as J's doing now, is backing away from previous suspects, using the read reset as his reasoning.

Why was Rad your OH MY GOD YES LET'S LYNCH HIM vote if he gave you these town pangs from the beginning? Why are you no longer even prepared to lynch him today?

Very unnerved.

[Diiny]

MOTEL ROOM

RADICAL FUZZ

RICOCHET

ROXY

Good

Good

Good

Bad

Surprised to see fuzz listed as good here, wilgy

[Diiny]

Let me get this straight, Wilgy. You:

Had fuzz as good
Flopped on him and considered him a scum read due to unspecified 'mafia interactions', the celebration posts and the 'I wouldn't do that' post, although, for all the terribleness leaking out of that latter wifomy post all wilgy actually said about it was:

Choutas made it a point to say "There is a first for everything." Why? unless there was actual purpose to it?

Which I think is actually a weak as fuck case.

But then a bunch of weird underhanded shit happens that's borderline illegal and he's town again.

I want to get off Dr. Wilgy's Wild Ride.

[Diiny]

Lecture in 5. More random spouts of investigation l8r. Save me some work, wilgy, and, alongside all the other shit I've thrown at you, provide me of an example of you bringing up some original, subjective content or leading an investigation or something to make me think you're not just responding to stuff if you know what I mean

[RadicalFuzz]

Diiny J3 still wants me lynched. This time he's specified the reason down just the Floyd interaction. As an aside, J3, you don't know how funny it is that you're crediting all of these "great townie mindsets" to a supposedly scum Fuzz. My scum game is pretty poor. Just got a chuckle out of that.

J3, weird question, but could you tell me your cleanest 3 players? Excluding yourself, of course.

Wilgy voted to break my tie and save me, so from a purely personal perspective I almost have to believe he's civilian at this point.

[Diiny]

My bad, read Jay's ''most inclined" as "not inclined"

[Choutas]

Cast my vote for Choutas for now...And the other two of my top three scumspects are the only other ones on the vote. Way to make me second-guess my entire life, guys.

Let me picture this. I am your second scummiest player at 1 and a half star and MM is the worst with half a star and I take the vote for the day? OK bro.

[Marmot]

RadicalFuzz to put everyone on an even playing field.

Linki: I'm not on the poll Choutas.

[Choutas]

I have no problem with you lynching me I am cool with that. Really. It's just hilarious everyone bothered to case me on Day 10(some did the previous day, it isn't directed to everyone). I wanted out of the game anyway. The only sad thing about my lynch is that town will get fucked and most likely lose the game.

By all means guys lynch me. Call my reads laughable, bully me and spit on me and lynch me like Jesus.

Then Choutas said, "MP, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." And they divided up His garments by casting lots.

[Choutas]

RadicalFuzz to put everyone on an even playing field.

Linki: I'm not on the poll Choutas.

If I ever see a marmot again I'll kick it in the stomach

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Went to sleep, woke up, went to uni cafe and some time during those actions remembered that I don't like it when people 'reset their reads.' I distinctly remember scum sloonei playing that card, and, just as J's doing now, is backing away from previous suspects, using the read reset as his reasoning.

Why was Rad your OH MY GOD YES LET'S LYNCH HIM vote if he gave you these town pangs from the beginning? Why are you no longer even prepared to lynch him today?

Very unnerved.

Even considering your misinterpretation this post reads as a manufactured attack. You know how I play town, and carefully reconsidering each read late in a game is definitely within my "meta". Even scum Sloonei doing that is not meaningful because careful reassessment is his town M.O. It was his effort to match the right meta.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

J3, weird question, but could you tell me your cleanest 3 players? Excluding yourself, of course.

Entering this phase I would have said Strawhenge and Choutas. I still need to continue reassessing though. I can't think of a third name that deserves to be mentioned in this post.

[Marmot]

Jay, can you stop posting for like 5 hours? I'm counting your votes. :P

[Diiny]

I dint recall you ever explicitly wanting to reset your reads or going for a blank slate thing. Of course you go over shit and ISO like mad but my emphasis is on the reset. By all means show me you have done it before as town and I'll stop worrying. Or maybe someone else can vouch for this? But I don't recall you ever resetting, and that plus my experience with the term is unnerving.

How exactly is that manufactured?

[Marmot]

I dint recall you ever explicitly wanting to reset your reads or going for a blank slate thing. Of course you go over shit and ISO like mad but my emphasis is on the reset. By all means show me you have done it before as town and I'll stop worrying. Or maybe someone else can vouch for this? But I don't recall you ever resetting, and that plus my experience with the term is unnerving.

How exactly is that manufactured?

I've seen mafia Jay twice, but those instances aren't good examples. One was in RYM 86 where he was recruited to mafia, and almost immediately nightkilled by a civilian. The other was in The Syndicate Mafia, where he played as a sock (so did not play as typical Jay), and again was nightkilled fairly early in the game.

So... no idea.

[Marmot]

I was kidding Jay, you can keep posting.

[Diiny]

Cast my vote for Choutas for now...And the other two of my top three scumspects are the only other ones on the vote. Way to make me second-guess my entire life, guys.

Let me picture this. I am your second scummiest player at 1 and a half star and MM is the worst with half a star and I take the vote for the day? OK bro.

Tactical voting is a thing. You'd rather someone you thought was bad was lynched over someone you thought was less bad, right?

Do you actually think Strawhenge is being disingenuous?

[Strawhenge]

Cast my vote for Choutas for now...And the other two of my top three scumspects are the only other ones on the vote. Way to make me second-guess my entire life, guys.

Let me picture this. I am your second scummiest player at 1 and a half star and MM is the worst with half a star and I take the vote for the day? OK bro.

Tactical voting is a thing. You'd rather someone you thought was bad was lynched over someone you thought was less bad, right?

Do you actually think Strawhenge is being disingenuous?

If either of you see a way for me to vote for Metalmarsh, please, by all means.

[Marmot]

Jay's posts are going to take forever...

It's taken 2 hours so far, but I'm only on Day 4.

[Diiny]

Cast my vote for Choutas for now...And the other two of my top three scumspects are the only other ones on the vote. Way to make me second-guess my entire life, guys.

Let me picture this. I am your second scummiest player at 1 and a half star and MM is the worst with half a star and I take the vote for the day? OK bro.

Tactical voting is a thing. You'd rather someone you thought was bad was lynched over someone you thought was less bad, right?

Do you actually think Strawhenge is being disingenuous?

If either of you see a way for me to vote for Metalmarsh, please, by all means.

Oh god he's off the tally I forgot

[Ricochet]

Jay's posts are going to take forever...

It's taken 2 hours so far, but I'm only on Day 4.

Would you believe if I'd told you I'm on it?

(Could still use the double-check, though).

[DrWilgy]

At home from work. Going to answer some questions and make some responses.

JJJ there's a relationship between you, and several other players. Some are dead now, but I'm pretty sure you established that relationship. I want to know from you why those players.

Coutas, there's no bad accusations there, nor would I want someone to break the rules. Kind of insulted that you think I would do that. Breaking game rules is something I wouldn't do. It hurts the game for everyone, and that's not why we play. Let's think "logically" as you would like. If you were really wanting to bait mafia. Why reveal the bait as bait? If there was actual purpose behind it that could've been used as scumbait, why revoke it? I see it as you going "Oh sheet, this was a bad Idea, so lol jk it was bait." Also, I still don't know what makes those two responses townier. I don't know what about responding to that bait makes them look townier. Elaborate on that. I think this is the 4th time I've asked you that specifically and you haven't answered.

You seem to be overly worried about the case itself. I don't know half of what your previous post is referencing, and I would just like some direction as to what you are responding to.

Also, why do you keep backtracking? I thought I had responded to all inquiry, but I KNOW for a fact that I asked for everyone to use my name in a post if they had questions to ask me questions or if I missed something. How are percentages on the LC lynch relevant to this conversation?

They aren't but you clearly haven't responded to them. You can't accuse me of not responding to your proddings when you clearly have ignored other players. OK let's end that.
You might have a point for the timing of my reveal but if you think I considered Rico as one of my suspects at the time. It yield results to me, it helped Rico get townier points from me for the response. As to why the responses look townie to me it's because a scum wouldn't respond to my post. If a scum came out and said "I think you were targeted" it would be fessing up. He/She would be still and ignore my post. A townie is more likely to claim his towniest read as the possible victim.

bullzeye. More after I'm done catching up.

And you are omitting the option of a scummy scummerdoodle "fessing up?"

Also...

You still haven't acknowledged the fact that bcornett responded to your "who was targeted?" questioning before he died.

[DrWilgy]

I think I finally figured out what Doc was trying to convey to me with the whole "why they have in common" and not "what" thing. Was that meant to be a rhetorical point Doc, one that I cannot expound upon publicly but still mull over privately? Is that what you intended of me?

Not really, I was wondering if you had any thoughts on why they had things in common.

[DrWilgy]

MOTEL ROOM

RADICAL FUZZ

RICOCHET

ROXY

Good

Good

Good

Bad

Surprised to see fuzz listed as good here, wilgy

Fuzz and I are soulmates. There is nothing that he has done this game that surprises me as I explained earlier.

[DrWilgy]

Let me get this straight, Wilgy. You:

Had fuzz as good
Flopped on him and considered him a scum read due to unspecified 'mafia interactions', the celebration posts and the 'I wouldn't do that' post, although, for all the terribleness leaking out of that latter wifomy post all wilgy actually said about it was:

Choutas made it a point to say "There is a first for everything." Why? unless there was actual purpose to it?

Which I think is actually a weak as fuck case.

But then a bunch of weird underhanded shit happens that's borderline illegal and he's town again.

I want to get off Dr. Wilgy's Wild Ride.

What? Fuzz vouched for Floyd, (which I could still see him doing as town, because that's the way he is) and that's what set off my scumdar.

His declaration, that made me put him back in most likely townie territory is that he responded to a previous question of "Who do you think the SK is" with JJJ, and I can believe that.

"There is a first for everything." was pointed out, because it was a fallback. A way to not lie. From what I've experienced, players are more comfortable when they don't need to lie so they may purposely (or sometimes completely accidentally and mindlessly) slip in these "OH! I'm not lying now!" fall backs.

plus, that's just a small bit of where my thoughts on Chou come from. I'm not sure why you singled out that bit.

I get the feeling that a majority of my posts aren't being read. Kinda upsets me, but whatever.

[Diiny]

I was looking for more stuff on choutas, but couldn't find it. I'll check again after dinner because I was on mobile + at uni.

[DrWilgy]

Cast my vote for Choutas for now...And the other two of my top three scumspects are the only other ones on the vote. Way to make me second-guess my entire life, guys.

I mean, you were the one to join us...

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think I finally figured out what Doc was trying to convey to me with the whole "why they have in common" and not "what" thing. Was that meant to be a rhetorical point Doc, one that I cannot expound upon publicly but still mull over privately? Is that what you intended of me?

Not really, I was wondering if you had any thoughts on why they had things in common.

Then I'm still completely at a loss.

[DrWilgy]

I think I finally figured out what Doc was trying to convey to me with the whole "why they have in common" and not "what" thing. Was that meant to be a rhetorical point Doc, one that I cannot expound upon publicly but still mull over privately? Is that what you intended of me?

Not really, I was wondering if you had any thoughts on why they had things in common.

Then I'm still completely at a loss.

[Marmot]

Jay's posts are going to take forever...

It's taken 2 hours so far, but I'm only on Day 4.

Would you believe if I'd told you I'm on it?

(Could still use the double-check, though).

Yes I'd believe you.

[Tangrowth]

Two questions for my remaining players:

1) Does the EoD time work or would you prefer if Sloonei and I shortened Night 10 to push it back to 7 PM or so Eastern time like it was before?

2) At any point between now and end of the game would you prefer that Days are shortened to 24 hours instead of 48? If the answer is Yes 24, tell me when you would like that to switch.

Just let me and Sloonei know in thread or via PM. Thanks!

[Marmot]

I don't care either way, as I'm on the west coast.

I know some players who live in Europe prefer the early end-times.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I vote to keep everything the way it is. The late deadlines are good for me and 24 hour days favor anti-town.

NO NO NO NO NO to 24 hour day phases.

[Tangrowth]

We will not be switching to 24 hour Days unless everyone is agreement, so that is off the table.

Still be sure to weigh in to let me and Sloonei know about the EoD time. Thanks folks!