Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [GAME OVER]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

G-Man's final Day 2 vote was for Sloonei, not Mac.

Which is, frankly, gross.

[VOTE: G-Man] aubergine

Jay: We can’t afford a mislynch.
Also Jay: Here is the weakest excuse ever to vote my counterwagon.

It doesn’t matter what GMan’s alignment is.

This is NOT town Jay

juliets Juliets tedxtr

G-Man is compatible with both mafia teams. G-Man has done nothing overtly civilian. G-Man's greatest efforts have come via easily-fudged vote analysis. G-Man's day 2 vote for Sloonei sucks. G-Man is in the POE. I see very few universes left where G-Man is not mafia.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I don't believe I have ever seen a civilian lynch himself when the game is in as precarious a state as this one.

And yet, we just lynched two townies for not giving a damn and we currently have town ghost SVS not giving a damn and we lynched Sprityo for not giving a damn.

You don’t believe this. You’re lying. You’re a wolf.

[Sloonei]

It’s obviously Jay and Sloonei. Like annoyingly obviously Jay and Sloonei.

Oof

When you ignore my Mac case and ignore my Jay case and they both flip masters side, you look obvious.

You’ve townread me all game. I’m lynching wolves.

I’m getting nothing from you but awkward distancing plays with Jay.

This is the second time you’ve suggested that I ignored the case on Mac and it’s the second time it hasn’t been true.

That’ll be real convincing when Jay flips wolf, I’m sure.

I don’t see how that’s relevant.

You’re a smart guy.

I can’t seem to drag you to a wolf lynch.

Why is that?

I lynched radishes and I lynched sig. Today I had a tinfoil theory that Jay was the anti-monitor. I care less about that than I did earlier. No one else cared about it while I cared about it. He is back to being a town read.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I don't believe I have ever seen a civilian lynch himself when the game is in as precarious a state as this one.

And yet, we just lynched two townies for not giving a damn and we currently have town ghost SVS not giving a damn and we lynched Sprityo for not giving a damn.

You don’t believe this. You’re lying. You’re a wolf.

Turnip Head gave a damn. Colin put up a fight. Neither of them self-voted. Neither of them self-voted on Day 7 with 6 of 11 players as civilians. Take off the blinders for one damned second and think. You're not attending to the basis of what I am saying.

[Michelle]

I don't believe I have ever seen a civilian lynch himself when the game is in as precarious a state as this one.

And yet, we just lynched two townies for not giving a damn and we currently have town ghost SVS not giving a damn and we lynched Sprityo for not giving a damn.

You don’t believe this. You’re lying. You’re a wolf.

Can you get out from the tunnel please? I feel bad no matter JJJs AI :/

[Jackofhearts2005]

Master
Epignosis
G-Man
Tranq

Anti-Monitor
speedchuck

Hot garbo.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I don't believe I have ever seen a civilian lynch himself when the game is in as precarious a state as this one.

And yet, we just lynched two townies for not giving a damn and we currently have town ghost SVS not giving a damn and we lynched Sprityo for not giving a damn.

You don’t believe this. You’re lying. You’re a wolf.

Can you get out from the tunnel please? I feel bad no matter JJJs AI :/

Do you need me to fake a red peek or what?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Master
Epignosis
G-Man
Tranq

Anti-Monitor
speedchuck

Hot garbo.

If you're a civilian you're going to need to reset hardcore, so you'd better take that "hot garbo" seriously later if not right now.

[Michelle]

I don't believe I have ever seen a civilian lynch himself when the game is in as precarious a state as this one.

And yet, we just lynched two townies for not giving a damn and we currently have town ghost SVS not giving a damn and we lynched Sprityo for not giving a damn.

You don’t believe this. You’re lying. You’re a wolf.

Can you get out from the tunnel please? I feel bad no matter JJJs AI :/

Do you need me to fake a red peek or what?

Would you?

[juliets]

Ok I see ted saying he is changing to Jay so I'll stop with the G-Man posts. Sloonei, I will read what you wrote.

I guess we need to resolve Jay this lynch. The people I trust as town are voting for him, I think Dom thought he was bad and we keep talking about it and talking about it. I think we have to get past it to sort the rest out. I can't be the only one thinking he is town - it's too much like what happened with Radish and with Elephant in Inception.

[VOTE: Jay] aubergine

Ok lol, I'm happy to change my vote to G-Man.

These two posts give the impression that juliets is just bouncing around between whichever wagons seem viable.

I'm not going to leave but @Michelle your post was hurtful.

Sloonei, my feeling about a Jay lynch are summed up in my post. I still don't see bad Jay but I understand for the good of the game and based on my assessments of Radish and Elephant his lynch might be the best option.

Meanwhile, ted re-kindled my interest in G-Man in a big way. I have been off and on about him the whole game. I started looking at some of his posts and posts about him but then when ted changed I thought he was not on the table for today. Then he was back ON the table and I changed my vote. As I indicated in my answer to Jack, I'm not sure I'm going to stay there. New people have entered the thread and have new thoughts that I will consider. The night is not over.

There’s no elephant in this game.

Walk me through your read on Jay, independent of the game-state or anyone else’s thoughts on him.

Elephant was in Inception. He was bad and I stood up for him until he was lynched. Just like Radish in this game. I had a blind spot with both. This is relevant because I'm saying I may have a blind spot with Jay.

I have seen Jay as town. I already posted why I see him as town in a long post. Some of those reasons don't hold up when comparing him to a game where he was bad but some of the things I think are hard to fake did hold up. I made a post about that also.

I know you said independent of the "game-state" or "anyone else's thoughts" but its very difficult to do that. Jack who is at the top of my trust list is seeing bad Jay, and he is adamant. I am not as adamant about seeing good Jay because I do not trust myself. It's not an easy position to be in.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Oof

When you ignore my Mac case and ignore my Jay case and they both flip masters side, you look obvious.

You’ve townread me all game. I’m lynching wolves.

I’m getting nothing from you but awkward distancing plays with Jay.

This is the second time you’ve suggested that I ignored the case on Mac and it’s the second time it hasn’t been true.

That’ll be real convincing when Jay flips wolf, I’m sure.

I don’t see how that’s relevant.

You’re a smart guy.

I can’t seem to drag you to a wolf lynch.

Why is that?

I lynched radishes and I lynched sig. Today I had a tinfoil theory that Jay was the anti-monitor. I care less about that than I did earlier. No one else cared about it while I cared about it. He is back to being a town read.

I feel like there’s a pattern there.

You voted Sig and Radishes but not Mac and Jay.

I’m sure the reason will come to me eventually.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I don't believe I have ever seen a civilian lynch himself when the game is in as precarious a state as this one.

And yet, we just lynched two townies for not giving a damn and we currently have town ghost SVS not giving a damn and we lynched Sprityo for not giving a damn.

You don’t believe this. You’re lying. You’re a wolf.

Can you get out from the tunnel please? I feel bad no matter JJJs AI :/

Do you need me to fake a red peek or what?

Would you?

Sure. I’m the cop and I red peeked Jay.

Don’t check the role list tho.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Ok I see ted saying he is changing to Jay so I'll stop with the G-Man posts. Sloonei, I will read what you wrote.

I guess we need to resolve Jay this lynch. The people I trust as town are voting for him, I think Dom thought he was bad and we keep talking about it and talking about it. I think we have to get past it to sort the rest out. I can't be the only one thinking he is town - it's too much like what happened with Radish and with Elephant in Inception.

[VOTE: Jay] aubergine

Ok lol, I'm happy to change my vote to G-Man.

These two posts give the impression that juliets is just bouncing around between whichever wagons seem viable.

I'm not going to leave but @Michelle your post was hurtful.

Sloonei, my feeling about a Jay lynch are summed up in my post. I still don't see bad Jay but I understand for the good of the game and based on my assessments of Radish and Elephant his lynch might be the best option.

Meanwhile, ted re-kindled my interest in G-Man in a big way. I have been off and on about him the whole game. I started looking at some of his posts and posts about him but then when ted changed I thought he was not on the table for today. Then he was back ON the table and I changed my vote. As I indicated in my answer to Jack, I'm not sure I'm going to stay there. New people have entered the thread and have new thoughts that I will consider. The night is not over.

There’s no elephant in this game.

Walk me through your read on Jay, independent of the game-state or anyone else’s thoughts on him.

Elephant was in Inception. He was bad and I stood up for him until he was lynched. Just like Radish in this game. I had a blind spot with both. This is relevant because I'm saying I may have a blind spot with Jay.

I have seen Jay as town. I already posted why I see him as town in a long post. Some of those reasons don't hold up when comparing him to a game where he was bad but some of the things I think are hard to fake did hold up. I made a post about that also.

I know you said independent of the "game-state" or "anyone else's thoughts" but its very difficult to do that. Jack who is at the top of my trust list is seeing bad Jay, and he is adamant. I am not as adamant about seeing good Jay because I do not trust myself. It's not an easy position to be in.

[Sloonei]

When you ignore my Mac case and ignore my Jay case and they both flip masters side, you look obvious.

You’ve townread me all game. I’m lynching wolves.

I’m getting nothing from you but awkward distancing plays with Jay.

This is the second time you’ve suggested that I ignored the case on Mac and it’s the second time it hasn’t been true.

That’ll be real convincing when Jay flips wolf, I’m sure.

I don’t see how that’s relevant.

You’re a smart guy.

I can’t seem to drag you to a wolf lynch.

Why is that?

I lynched radishes and I lynched sig. Today I had a tinfoil theory that Jay was the anti-monitor. I care less about that than I did earlier. No one else cared about it while I cared about it. He is back to being a town read.

I feel like there’s a pattern there.

You voted Sig and Radishes but not Mac and Jay.

I’m sure the reason will come to me eventually.

And you’ll vote for Mac but not Radishes and sig. You’ll also insist on goofy ass connections that don’t exist.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

This dialogue has become pointless. I am not a mafioso. I cannot waste anymore of what may be my last day in this game arguing about my own posts.

I feel better about my G-Man suspicion than I did an hour ago.

[Michelle]

I don't believe I have ever seen a civilian lynch himself when the game is in as precarious a state as this one.

And yet, we just lynched two townies for not giving a damn and we currently have town ghost SVS not giving a damn and we lynched Sprityo for not giving a damn.

You don’t believe this. You’re lying. You’re a wolf.

Can you get out from the tunnel please? I feel bad no matter JJJs AI :/

Do you need me to fake a red peek or what?

Would you?

Sure. I’m the cop and I red peeked Jay.

Don’t check the role list tho.

okay I got it.. you have nothing solid

[Sloonei]

My point is, Jack, that I think you’re town and are burrowing deeper and deeper into a self-made tunnel right now.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I will revisit Mac now at least quickly. I have already spent too much thesis time in this miserable thread.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Master
Epignosis
G-Man
Tranq

Anti-Monitor
speedchuck

Hot garbo.

If you're a civilian you're going to need to reset hardcore, so you'd better take that "hot garbo" seriously later if not right now.

There are at least two townies in your four player list even if you were magically town.

I don’t need to re-evaluate shit.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I want to reiterate that Epignosis has done absolutely nothing today beyond put a vote on me. Be mindful of that later, whatever happens to me. And recall that he said he was going to get more involved. Nope.

[Jackofhearts2005]

My point is, Jack, that I think you’re town and are burrowing deeper and deeper into a self-made tunnel right now.

I don’t believe you believe that.

[Michelle]

Tonally, as vibe and as wording, JJJ doesn't sound wolfy. I can't find a reason to vote him Jack, none at all.

[Jackofhearts2005]

But not as much as I don’t believe Jay is town.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Cleaning up all this wine is gonna be a hassle.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Tonally, as vibe and as wording, JJJ doesn't sound wolfy. I can't find a reason to vote him Jack, none at all.

Then go beyond time and wording because the man lead a lynch on a townie and is purposely throwing out nothing reads because he’s in antispew.

[Sloonei]

My point is, Jack, that I think you’re town and are burrowing deeper and deeper into a self-made tunnel right now.

I don’t believe you believe that.

Exactly.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

General note: Jack's suspicion of me now is almost a carbon copy of what nutella and Mac did to me in Dogs vs. Cats. They were both 100% certain, they pushed and pushed and yelled and screamed, and they were wrong. They broke my zen. I was a civilian and so were they. I don't think Jack's coming from a dishonest place. I think he's too far down the rabbit hole to find his way back up.

[Michelle]

I fell from GMan's Ate so hard that I want a CFD. Can't bring a good name for this and I am brainless from tiredness.

[Jackofhearts2005]

My point is, Jack, that I think you’re town and are burrowing deeper and deeper into a self-made tunnel right now.

I don’t believe you believe that.

Exactly.

Yet Jay’s fur remains. What am I supposed to do but suspect you? If you’re town, don’t tell me to get out of this tunnel cause it leads to a wolf. If you’re town, get out of Jay’s pocket.

[Michelle]

Tonally, as vibe and as wording, JJJ doesn't sound wolfy. I can't find a reason to vote him Jack, none at all.

Then go beyond time and wording because the man lead a lynch on a townie and is purposely throwing out nothing reads because he’s in antispew.

and you never lead a mislynch as villager Jack, you are always right, isn't it?

[Michelle]

Tonally, as vibe and as wording, JJJ doesn't sound wolfy. I can't find a reason to vote him Jack, none at all.

Then go beyond time and wording because the man lead a lynch on a townie and is purposely throwing out nothing reads because he’s in antispew.

and you never lead a mislynch as villager Jack, you are always right, isn't it?

[Michelle]

oops this double posting -_-

[Jackofhearts2005]

Tonally, as vibe and as wording, JJJ doesn't sound wolfy. I can't find a reason to vote him Jack, none at all.

Then go beyond time and wording because the man lead a lynch on a townie and is purposely throwing out nothing reads because he’s in antispew.

and you never lead a mislynch as villager Jack, you are always right, isn't it?

So far so good.

I just mean, if you wanna give everyone a pass for dishonest pushes, we’re gonna have a hard time catching scum.

[Sloonei]

My point is, Jack, that I think you’re town and are burrowing deeper and deeper into a self-made tunnel right now.

I don’t believe you believe that.

Exactly.

Yet Jay’s fur remains. What am I supposed to do but suspect you? If you’re town, don’t tell me to get out of this tunnel cause it leads to a wolf. If you’re town, get out of Jay’s pocket.

I’ve played more mafia games with JaggedJimmyJay than anyone else. I briefly suspected him today. I have done plenty of homework in here. This is not a blind town read. If Jay is bad then he has fooled me. I think that you are wrong.

[Sloonei]

General note: Jack's suspicion of me now is almost a carbon copy of what nutella and Mac did to me in Dogs vs. Cats. They were both 100% certain, they pushed and pushed and yelled and screamed, and they were wrong. They broke my zen. I was a civilian and so were they. I don't think Jack's coming from a dishonest place. I think he's too far down the rabbit hole to find his way back up.

Broken zen is the reason I abandoned my suspicion, for the record.

[Michelle]

ok. What if he flips town?

[juliets]

[mention]TonyStarkPrime[/mention] what do you think?

[Jackofhearts2005]

This is only even a contest because Jay has teammates.

If GMan has teammates, they’re bussing. Yet there are five votes for town Jay?

No way that’s happening. Just look at the vote count and tell me Jay can even be town here.

[juliets]

I know you're voting for Jay Tony, I just want you to talk a little bit about your vote. If you did this, sorry I missed it just point me back.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I don’t wanna hear “I don’t see it.”

I don’t wanna hear “Jack is in a tunnel.”

You wanna save Jay, get yourself on record really defending him before he flips wolf.

Go ahead.

[Sloonei]

This is only even a contest because Jay has teammates.

If GMan has teammates, they’re bussing. Yet there are five votes for town Jay?

No way that’s happening. Just look at the vote count and tell me Jay can even be town here.

All it takes is one or two vocal civilians promoting a case and the wolves can start circling.

[Sloonei]

I don’t wanna hear “I don’t see it.”

I don’t wanna hear “Jack is in a tunnel.”

You wanna save Jay, get yourself on record really defending him before he flips wolf.

Go ahead.

hi

[Jackofhearts2005]

Big brain play.

“Jackofhearts2005 fell down the well!”

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm just going to be extracting small handfuls of posts for these Mac reviews. Also refer to Sloonei's ISO of Mac beginning there.

Epignosis

Spoiler: show

"Epi, why?"

Okay, serious attempt at self-analysis and then I'm going to bed. (GMT, fyi.)

I've definitely evolved my style over the years, and activity/engagement will vary game to game, but generally as town I rely on analysing votes and wagons (and therefore hate D1/spend it town-clearing more so than anything). I like to re-read the flow of the thread at certain points (e.g. as wagons form/EoDs) rather than ISO individual players, though of course I do that too sometimes. It's time-consuming, though, so when I'm busy (as I am these days) I will rely more on waiting for posts to ping me and then hounding that player.

As scum I'm not afraid to bus to keep up any town cred I've gained, but otherwise try to keep my game simple and sneak into a towncore by trying to play to my town meta. If I don't succeed in that, I'm a fairly useless scummate and quite easy to find. But if I do succeed I'm pretty decent at deepwolfing, I like to think.

As indy I just make it up as I go, as Jay and Sloonei can confirm.

Galaxy brain. You are both scum.

Lol I feel like there are quite a few people who are just falling in love with the idea of catching me and not actually reading my play. Namely Dom, Nanook, Jack and now Nutella. Dom especially only really amped it up on me when I came back to thread live and a bunch of others (Jay, Nanook, Sloonei) all simultaneously started hounding me. It was too opportunistic and I do not trust.

I'm not really one who generally believes/trusts when people make self meta reads but if you've seen my GoC play, or really the vast majority of my mafia play, before (and I have been mafia in multiple), I can't see how you look at this game and think you're seeing the mafia version of Mac.

I'm not saying that I'm playing well or anything, quite the contrary, but mislynching me today would be a poor result. We should lynch someone who sucks more at Mafia ergo if they are mislynched would be no loss. Someone like Jay, Epi, or Sloonei.

I think Sabie is on the Radish team. The way she was addressing Radish was sparse and awkward. She didn't respond to Radish when Radish picked her vote on Nut out as the worst vote. But every time I say something anti-Sabie she's there to comment on it.

Turnip also looks bad from this. The way he ended up on Nut D1 even though he supposedly suspected Radish. And also D2 built counter wagons to him. Not a great look. Though I've been reading Turnip more town otherwise. Idk.

I can vibe that. I think Dom, Jack, G-Man and Sprityo are more likely to be radishes teammates but Sabie could be on either team fmpov.

I think the non radishes team are more likely to have been laying low once the wagon formation became clear. It would be needless for them to participate. I'd say that the other team are more likely to be among the people voting earlier or off wagon entirely since they were coasting by the end. Sabie profiles here.

I think Michelle and Tranq profile as suspects too. I'd be interested to hear nutella's feelings on Michelle given she had a strong town read on her earlier.

I think most of the people who voted late are relatively clean with the exception of Sprityo because his vote was on me. So that's TH, Colin, Juliets, Epi and TSP I think. I think it's unlikely any of them would make that vote if they were scum, even if they weren't on MR's team.

I'd like to hear some non Mac talk from people who haven't said much. Epignosis and JaggedJimmyJay you guys have been unusually low key. Care to express yourselves?

@MacDougall talk about players who aren’t voting for/heavily suspecting you. Who are your town reads? Is there anyone you think isn’t getting enough attention?

A great deal of people. The constant focus on myself (and now Sig) is very much allowing for a game environment where people who are absolutely failing in their basic civilian duty, or not living up to their usual standards are receiving little to no pressure. I have reservations about all the below;

Epignosis - Does not appear to be earnestly attempting to achieve a civilian wincon.
ColinIsCool - Only appears to be trying when there is pressure on him.
Michelle - Does not match her meta. Hasn't helped the civ cause really at all.
speedchuck - Does not appear to be the same speedchuck that I am used to seeing.
sprityo - Appears to be totally laying low outside of intermittently FPS reading me scum.
Tranq - Has literally made 5 posts or something.

Epignosis - Does not appear to be earnestly attempting to achieve a civilian wincon.

Go on.

I have yet to see you take control of the game in the way that I am used to. I have seen the same tone that I am used to but not the same impact.

This is the gist of it. When Mac built reads lists, Epignosis was in the dark green twice. When Mac mentioned Epignosis earlier in the game, he often tacked his name alongside other people -- particularly other perceived "Big Fish" people like Sloonei and/or myself. Mac eventually went gray on Epi as you start to see in the last post there. He never did anything with this of consequence. I didn't like Epi's Mac content, and I don't think Mac's Epi content does him any favors.

Still compatible.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I don’t wanna hear “I don’t see it.”

I don’t wanna hear “Jack is in a tunnel.”

You wanna save Jay, get yourself on record really defending him before he flips wolf.

Go ahead.

hi

Has your read not progressed in a week?

[Sloonei]

Jay’s behavior today is also exactly what I’d expect from him as a civilian. He got some pressure on him and it flipped a switch. He started pressing everything and re-examining things. He lost his zen and reclaimed the crown of fuck mountain.

[speedchuck]

I will, in fact, be shocmked if Jay is town.

But G-man self-voting is a terrible look.

[Jackofhearts2005]

This is only even a contest because Jay has teammates.

If GMan has teammates, they’re bussing. Yet there are five votes for town Jay?

No way that’s happening. Just look at the vote count and tell me Jay can even be town here.

All it takes is one or two vocal civilians promoting a case and the wolves can start circling.

Who are the wolves on Jay’s wagon?

[speedchuck]

Jay’s behavior today is also exactly what I’d expect from him as a civilian. He got some pressure on him and it flipped a switch. He started pressing everything and re-examining things. He lost his zen and reclaimed the crown of fuck mountain.

I don't know what thread you're reading.

[Epignosis]

"Hello we're all diseased let's have meetings all day about it."

I am five pages behind. What did G-Man do?