The Syndicate

so what’s the theory for what happened at EoD?

is jack a wolf too? did wolves bus? were they just AWOL/off wagon?

i personally never really found jack wolfy but can’t say i’ve paid too much attention

Hally wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:09 pm so what’s the theory for what happened at EoD?

is jack a wolf too? did wolves bus? were they just AWOL/off wagon?

i personally never really found jack wolfy but can’t say i’ve paid too much attention

Jack is not a wolf. I honestly think it is reasonably likely the wolves weren't around at EoD, or positioned in such a way that they couldn't block-vote.

Legit, if there was another wolf vote on my wagon, Pyxxy is scumiest

honestly that dz/vivax interaction is kinda crazy

is there some buildup or history to it i’m missing? or did vivax actually start ranting about liberalism and dz’s endless obsession with him in response to a single naked vote?

it seems so absurdly over the top it’s comical

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:38 pm

Inawordyes wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 7:19 pm If Hally is a player, then their vote carries weight ofc, and unvoting was probably about the scummiest thing they could've done in the scenario. They could've voted Jack, Jack maybe flips or it at least ties with Vivax. They could've voted Vivax, did not. They could've stayed on Falcon, did not

Considering the idea that Falcon/Vivax were W/W, it looks even worse because this would be the "mafia is confident that Vivax won't flip" protection move to throw your vote off the other buddy in the tie expecting that Jack would go rather than there being a tie rand between Jack and Falcon

Eeeeeeeeh

Is that agreement or disagreement?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:12 pm Legit, if there was another wolf vote on my wagon, Pyxxy is scumiest

I'd kill Pyxxy.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:45 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:43 pm anyone got a read on dz?

I'd elim them

I thought Vivax spewed DZ town when I read his ISO, what’s your take?

Inawordyes wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:14 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:45 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:43 pm anyone got a read on dz?

I'd elim them

I thought Vivax spewed DZ town when I read his ISO, what’s your take?

I didn't read Vivax's ISO and probably am not going to.

pyxxy wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 7:59 pm

Inawordyes wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 7:56 pm ahhhhhhhhhh, and there's the outcome I hoped for

Jack: becomes top wagon

the thread: doesn't care

Iawy: ties Vivax with Jack for top wagon

the thread: doesn't care

Iawy: switched vote to Falcon, tying Vivax and Falcon for CW

the thread: immediate pushback and multiple players come out of the woodwork including to vote Vivax

it's like clockwork haha

you're discounting that a lot of that jack wagon thread time was without a recent vote count, so I think people didn't realize he was an actual wagon

This is kinda valid but also yuck to take an argument for a townie and a wolf being townies and then arguing the argument doesn't apply to the townie.

Neon wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:05 pm I am sorry but you know first hand this isn't my scum game. I'm better than this.

I've defs slanked as town before though.

At no point did I say this is alignment indicative, nor scum indicative for you.

And you still didnt correct me. If you say I am misrepresenting, then correctly represent.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:15 pm

Inawordyes wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:14 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:45 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:43 pm anyone got a read on dz?

I'd elim them

I thought Vivax spewed DZ town when I read his ISO, what’s your take?

I didn't read Vivax's ISO and probably am not going to.

Well that’s problematic considering he’s literally a flipped wolf

Inawordyes wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:13 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:38 pm

Inawordyes wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 7:19 pm If Hally is a player, then their vote carries weight ofc, and unvoting was probably about the scummiest thing they could've done in the scenario. They could've voted Jack, Jack maybe flips or it at least ties with Vivax. They could've voted Vivax, did not. They could've stayed on Falcon, did not

Considering the idea that Falcon/Vivax were W/W, it looks even worse because this would be the "mafia is confident that Vivax won't flip" protection move to throw your vote off the other buddy in the tie expecting that Jack would go rather than there being a tie rand between Jack and Falcon

Eeeeeeeeh

Is that agreement or disagreement?

Disagreement. Like I don't get why a wolf specifically unvotes Falcon there.

I guess I should specify though, I wasn’t meaning “what’s your take of DZ based on Vivax’s ISO”, just “why do you think DZ is worth killing?”

Inawordyes wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:16 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:15 pm

Inawordyes wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:14 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:45 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:43 pm anyone got a read on dz?

I'd elim them

I thought Vivax spewed DZ town when I read his ISO, what’s your take?

I didn't read Vivax's ISO and probably am not going to.

Well that’s problematic considering he’s literally a flipped wolf

I tried last night, but I found it... absurd. Haven't tried again since.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:16 pm

Inawordyes wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:13 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:38 pm

Inawordyes wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 7:19 pm If Hally is a player, then their vote carries weight ofc, and unvoting was probably about the scummiest thing they could've done in the scenario. They could've voted Jack, Jack maybe flips or it at least ties with Vivax. They could've voted Vivax, did not. They could've stayed on Falcon, did not

Considering the idea that Falcon/Vivax were W/W, it looks even worse because this would be the "mafia is confident that Vivax won't flip" protection move to throw your vote off the other buddy in the tie expecting that Jack would go rather than there being a tie rand between Jack and Falcon

Eeeeeeeeh

Is that agreement or disagreement?

Disagreement. Like I don't get why a wolf specifically unvotes Falcon there.

I talked about it more a little later, Hally really only has wolf equity in a world where Falcon is also wolf, with the unvote being an attempt to save Falcon from a potential tie

There’s a lot of layers into it that you’ll see, but that’s general premise

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:15 pm

Inawordyes wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:14 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:45 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:43 pm anyone got a read on dz?

I'd elim them

I thought Vivax spewed DZ town when I read his ISO, what’s your take?

I didn't read Vivax's ISO and probably am not going to.

it’s the posts i just quoted

Inawordyes wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:17 pm I guess I should specify though, I wasn’t meaning “what’s your take of DZ based on Vivax’s ISO”, just “why do you think DZ is worth killing?”

Oh, just vague feels along with them having ended up on Jack at a very bad time after having seemingly pushed Vivax (not being there when it counted)

Inawordyes wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:16 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:15 pm

Inawordyes wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:14 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:45 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:43 pm anyone got a read on dz?

I'd elim them

I thought Vivax spewed DZ town when I read his ISO, what’s your take?

I didn't read Vivax's ISO and probably am not going to.

Well that’s problematic considering he’s literally a flipped wolf

I'm not going to read vivax's ISO either

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:16 pm

Inawordyes wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:13 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:38 pm

Inawordyes wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 7:19 pm If Hally is a player, then their vote carries weight ofc, and unvoting was probably about the scummiest thing they could've done in the scenario. They could've voted Jack, Jack maybe flips or it at least ties with Vivax. They could've voted Vivax, did not. They could've stayed on Falcon, did not

Considering the idea that Falcon/Vivax were W/W, it looks even worse because this would be the "mafia is confident that Vivax won't flip" protection move to throw your vote off the other buddy in the tie expecting that Jack would go rather than there being a tie rand between Jack and Falcon

Eeeeeeeeh

Is that agreement or disagreement?

Disagreement. Like I don't get why a wolf specifically unvotes Falcon there.

In context, it reads like Hally not knowing what to do because they weren't caught up so they removed the Falcon vote to get out of the way of more read players.

Porscha wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:19 pm

Inawordyes wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:16 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:15 pm

Inawordyes wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:14 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:45 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:43 pm anyone got a read on dz?

I'd elim them

I thought Vivax spewed DZ town when I read his ISO, what’s your take?

I didn't read Vivax's ISO and probably am not going to.

Well that’s problematic considering he’s literally a flipped wolf

I'm not going to read vivax's ISO either

Read my ISO, and give me thoughts.

Inawordyes wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:18 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:16 pm

Inawordyes wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:13 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:38 pm

Inawordyes wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 7:19 pm If Hally is a player, then their vote carries weight ofc, and unvoting was probably about the scummiest thing they could've done in the scenario. They could've voted Jack, Jack maybe flips or it at least ties with Vivax. They could've voted Vivax, did not. They could've stayed on Falcon, did not

Considering the idea that Falcon/Vivax were W/W, it looks even worse because this would be the "mafia is confident that Vivax won't flip" protection move to throw your vote off the other buddy in the tie expecting that Jack would go rather than there being a tie rand between Jack and Falcon

Eeeeeeeeh

Is that agreement or disagreement?

Disagreement. Like I don't get why a wolf specifically unvotes Falcon there.

I talked about it more a little later, Hally really only has wolf equity in a world where Falcon is also wolf, with the unvote being an attempt to save Falcon from a potential tie

There’s a lot of layers into it that you’ll see, but that’s general premise

save falcon from a potential tie with who? vivax? or jack?

if i was a wolf with falcon and vivax i’d want falcon to die more than vivax cuz vivax was scout, and unvoting but not voting jack just makes that less likely to happen

But we can always yeet Falcon (who has not improved) and then take that into consideration later if Falcon flips w.

like, no matter how you slice it unvoting falcon just made it more likely vivax the wolf pr would die lol

so it’s dumb to do as a wolf regardless of falcon’s alignment

!votecount @Lumi

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:15 pm

pyxxy wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 7:59 pm

Inawordyes wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 7:56 pm ahhhhhhhhhh, and there's the outcome I hoped for

Jack: becomes top wagon

the thread: doesn't care

Iawy: ties Vivax with Jack for top wagon

the thread: doesn't care

Iawy: switched vote to Falcon, tying Vivax and Falcon for CW

the thread: immediate pushback and multiple players come out of the woodwork including to vote Vivax

it's like clockwork haha

you're discounting that a lot of that jack wagon thread time was without a recent vote count, so I think people didn't realize he was an actual wagon

This is kinda valid but also yuck to take an argument for a townie and a wolf being townies and then arguing the argument doesn't apply to the townie.

I mean I also responded in 3 min at EOD and it was more that I thought IAWY was being super self-congratulatory e.g. the cape guy from sailor moon which annoyed me

Porscha wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:16 pm

Neon wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:05 pm I am sorry but you know first hand this isn't my scum game. I'm better than this.

I've defs slanked as town before though.

At no point did I say this is alignment indicative, nor scum indicative for you.

And you still didnt correct me. If you say I am misrepresenting, then correctly represent.

Nah I don't care enough

Not sure how I'm supposed to take "why are you being so defensive" as not you trying to say it's scummy

ftr i considered voting vivax when i popped in because i town read his wagon more

but then i just didn’t lol

I think Porscha not interacting with me is outing for her.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:28 pm I think Porscha not interacting with me is outing for her.

Why?

Neon wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:30 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:28 pm I think Porscha not interacting with me is outing for her.

Why?

Because town!Porscha would interact with me.

Helpful I truly love how you explain things with so much detail I always see your view of the world

Hally wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:23 pm like, no matter how you slice it unvoting falcon just made it more likely vivax the wolf pr would die lol

so it’s dumb to do as a wolf regardless of falcon’s alignment

The argument that I could make, which I don't necessarily believe, is that wolves hate w/w wagons because they're required to fake two important reads at once and if they come down on the Wolf 1 wagon and Wolf 2 gets yeeted, they can get broken clock wagoned for defending a flipped wolf and vice versa. So by taking things out of your control, you avoid that.

Neon wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:31 pm Helpful I truly love how you explain things with so much detail I always see your view of the world

town!Porscha actually has a pretty good read on me, and I think she'd be willing to try to figure me out.

Not long ago I played a game with Porscha and I pushed her for a read on me and she was scum and kind of got outed in the process of me pushing her.

I think town!her would not be worried about talking to me, but scum!her would.

Thank you. I mean I don't disagree so.

Hally wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:43 pm anyone got a read on dz?

Likely town

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:37 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:43 pm anyone got a read on dz?

Likely town

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:32 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:23 pm like, no matter how you slice it unvoting falcon just made it more likely vivax the wolf pr would die lol

so it’s dumb to do as a wolf regardless of falcon’s alignment

The argument that I could make, which I don't necessarily believe, is that wolves hate w/w wagons because they're required to fake two important reads at once and if they come down on the Wolf 1 wagon and Wolf 2 gets yeeted, they can get broken clock wagoned for defending a flipped wolf and vice versa. So by taking things out of your control, you avoid that.

that seems pretty silly? with w/w wagons you wanna be bussing one of them because even if the one you bus doesn’t flip right away they probably will soon and then you get some cred

if we’re w/w/w unvoting falcon does nothing to save vivax who i’d want to save over falcon and also stops me from getting any cred when falcon inevitably flips

seems like a bad move regardless of what happens

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:37 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:43 pm anyone got a read on dz?

Likely town

can you remind me who you wolf read?

Hally wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:45 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:32 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:23 pm like, no matter how you slice it unvoting falcon just made it more likely vivax the wolf pr would die lol

so it’s dumb to do as a wolf regardless of falcon’s alignment

The argument that I could make, which I don't necessarily believe, is that wolves hate w/w wagons because they're required to fake two important reads at once and if they come down on the Wolf 1 wagon and Wolf 2 gets yeeted, they can get broken clock wagoned for defending a flipped wolf and vice versa. So by taking things out of your control, you avoid that.

that seems pretty silly? with w/w wagons you wanna be bussing one of them because even if the one you bus doesn’t flip right away they probably will soon and then you get some cred

if we’re w/w/w unvoting falcon does nothing to save vivax who i’d want to save over falcon and also stops me from getting any cred when falcon inevitably flips

seems like a bad move regardless of what happens

actually i’d go further and say if i’m a w/w/w with them falcon is exactly where i want to be voting

because then i get cred when falcon flips but i avoid having to outright bus or save vivax the wolf pr

so i can’t see why i’d ever unvote falcon as wolf regardless of his alignment, i think i just wouldn’t post and would leave my vote there

but anyway, wifom etc nobody cares

Hally wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:45 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:32 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:23 pm like, no matter how you slice it unvoting falcon just made it more likely vivax the wolf pr would die lol

so it’s dumb to do as a wolf regardless of falcon’s alignment

The argument that I could make, which I don't necessarily believe, is that wolves hate w/w wagons because they're required to fake two important reads at once and if they come down on the Wolf 1 wagon and Wolf 2 gets yeeted, they can get broken clock wagoned for defending a flipped wolf and vice versa. So by taking things out of your control, you avoid that.

that seems pretty silly? with w/w wagons you wanna be bussing one of them because even if the one you bus doesn’t flip right away they probably will soon and then you get some cred

if we’re w/w/w unvoting falcon does nothing to save vivax who i’d want to save over falcon and also stops me from getting any cred when falcon inevitably flips

seems like a bad move regardless of what happens

I don’t think the scout role is that important and it becomes less important as the game goes on.

I honestly don’t think the removed vote does much because Falcon was iirc third top wagon.

So I’m kinda denying it as wolf indicative per IAWY and denying you towncredit for it.

#enlightenedcentrism

i don’t think i should get town cred for it (there’s much better reasons to town read me i’m sure)

it’s just not wolfy

i still can’t really bring myself to iso people and try to get a good wolf read

there’s just so much noise itt relative to how little hard info we have

difficult game to get fully invested in but maybe tomorrow

Day 6 Vote Count
SoD: #6768 EoD: #0

Not Voting (4): MacDougall (6), DrWilgy (8), Hally (31), Porscha (12)
inawordyes (3): Lumi (10), ilario (8), Michelle (8)
pyxxy (3): DeeZees (35), Neon (23), Jackofhearts2005 (45)
ilario (2): nutella (84), Inawordyes (44)
porscha (1): Seanzie (71)
unvote (1): pyxxy (23)
sprityo (1): Ricochet (5)
manny (1): Manny (7)
nutella (1): NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME (7)

if someone has a strong wolf read that hasn’t been talked about since i got here lmk

Hally wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:45 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:32 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:23 pm like, no matter how you slice it unvoting falcon just made it more likely vivax the wolf pr would die lol

so it’s dumb to do as a wolf regardless of falcon’s alignment

The argument that I could make, which I don't necessarily believe, is that wolves hate w/w wagons because they're required to fake two important reads at once and if they come down on the Wolf 1 wagon and Wolf 2 gets yeeted, they can get broken clock wagoned for defending a flipped wolf and vice versa. So by taking things out of your control, you avoid that.

that seems pretty silly? with w/w wagons you wanna be bussing one of them because even if the one you bus doesn’t flip right away they probably will soon and then you get some cred

if we’re w/w/w unvoting falcon does nothing to save vivax who i’d want to save over falcon and also stops me from getting any cred when falcon inevitably flips

seems like a bad move regardless of what happens

The basis of the read, as it was originally presented at the time that Jack quoted my post, was that Vivax should've been saved at EoD, but the way Mafia didn't care to save Vivax - and even Vivax didn't care to save Vivax - potentially indicated that if the team wasn't just inactive, they didn't care because they didn't think Vivax was actually going to die. So you didn't have to vote Jack to save Vivax, that wasn't the argument; you were unvoting to save Falcon from a presumed tie vote, which would either cause a Jack chop straight-up or prevent a 3-way Jack/Vivax/Falcon tie were 2/3 of the tie was mafia

Things have changed and and evolved beyond that as of now, but that was the basis for the thought at the time it was written

what’s with the iawy wagon? his posts have seemed pretty good to me since he started playing

pyxxy i could lunch whenever tbh, nothing villagery there afair

Hally wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 10:01 pm what’s with the iawy wagon? his posts have seemed pretty good to me since he started playing

pyxxy i could lunch whenever tbh, nothing villagery there afair

Sean led a strong "vote Iawy because of his EoD shuffling" charge at SoD, the people who have been posting have moved past it but everybody left haven't been back yet since they voted except Michelle IIRC, who just hates me tbh