GAME OF CHAMPIONS 2021 Endgame (town and 3p win)

[LinearPoint]

It feels more like Dizzy was trying to get Wiggly chopped.

I might actually feel the other way about the second of these two quotes. Dizzy's language feels very labored there. It could be a sign that he was overthinking it when addressing Wilgy's presence in the game.

Maybe, but don't Mafia overthink a lot even when it's not addressing their partners?

[Sloonei]

It feels more like Dizzy was trying to get Wiggly chopped.

I might actually feel the other way about the second of these two quotes. Dizzy's language feels very labored there. It could be a sign that he was overthinking it when addressing Wilgy's presence in the game.

Maybe, but don't Mafia overthink a lot even when it's not addressing their partners?

This is a fair point.

[LinearPoint]

Can anyone on the 112 wagon explain it? Neeko still doesn't see where it's coming from.

[ilario]

Tsp probs a wolf
Guillo probs town but I’m gonna vote him anyways lol

[Sloonei]

112 is the player on the poll I have paid the least attention to.

[LinearPoint]

112 is the player on the poll I have paid the least attention to.

same

[Master Radishes]

112 is the player on the poll I have paid the least attention to.

same

same

[Paopan]

I’m trying to conceive of the mastermind of a wolf team filled with the people who seem just out of reach — Paopan, Wilgy, maybe JPIC? Wolves ought to be more likely here. Not sure what would make that machine function.

Yeah... I might be scum but what are you going to do about it?
Will the question is...
Will they kill me tonight after claiming a protective role or would mafia risk having me alive for being a LHF?
Now, choose your poison:

As town, here is my defense:
- Mafia Capt most probably hand-picked the players
- If Mafia Capt randomed, I am also cleared because they can choose from a pool of roles. So why would I choose a protective role as Mafia? I have big balls of steel

Today, Here's how we should proceed
Lynch -> HK, Sabie, Sig, and DrWigly/112

Deep wolves are probably between Belzy, Ilario, or alexa

Feels like an old crank. But here we go. See u all on day 3 ^^

"Why wouold they choose a protecitve role as Mafia?"
No offense, but have you seen the amount of vigilante shots?
There's pretty good reason to want to not die to Vigilantes.

I don't mind the Vigi shot. But as I have stated before.
If you're going to shoot me. Mention it publicly first ^^

[Paopan]

Can anyone on the 112 wagon explain it? Neeko still doesn't see where it's coming from.

I'm scumreading 112 and Sabie since day 1 and day 2 for the same reason. Weak - No reads
Well, at least we got some traction now so I'm quite content on my votes...

[LinearPoint]

That's not...Even remotely the point of that post.
Mafia can have protective roles. They are useful.
Not to mention, one can just lie about their role?
So "Mafia wouldn't ever pick a Protective role" is just not a defense.

[Paopan]

Can anyone on the 112 wagon explain it? Neeko still doesn't see where it's coming from.

I'm scumreading 112 and Sabie since day 1 and day 2 for the same reason. Weak - No reads
Well, at least we got some traction now so I'm quite content on my votes...

Sabie for not having a read and 112 town read that doesn't make sense from my PoV

[Paopan]

That's not...Even remotely the point of that post.
Mafia can have protective roles. They are useful.
Not to mention, one can just lie about their role?
So "Mafia wouldn't ever pick a Protective role" is just not a defense.

Okay may I ask you a question.
As a mafia player that could choose any roles from the game.
Why would you choose a protective role?

[Sloonei]

That's not...Even remotely the point of that post.
Mafia can have protective roles. They are useful.
Not to mention, one can just lie about their role?
So "Mafia wouldn't ever pick a Protective role" is just not a defense.

Okay may I ask you a question.
As a mafia player that could choose any roles from the game.
Why would you choose a protective role?

It is Day 2 and 10 players are already dead. We are about to lose 4 more.

[LinearPoint]

That's not...Even remotely the point of that post.
Mafia can have protective roles. They are useful.
Not to mention, one can just lie about their role?
So "Mafia wouldn't ever pick a Protective role" is just not a defense.

Okay may I ask you a question.
As a mafia player that could choose any roles from the game.
Why would you choose a protective role?

There can be many reasons depending on the strength of the role.
A Jailkeeper is still useful as a roleblocker for example.
A Doctor is just a straight upgrade to Bulletproof which is already a strong Mafia role.
Given the roles that have flipped though it could have any number of weird mechanics that make it strong.
Not dying is surprisingly a very good ability to have.

[ilario]

Tsp/sig/mac/[redacted]/x is probably the solve

X I’m unsure of, thought it was guillo since he has awful interactions with wolves and have being trying to debate whether he’s just a heavily pocketed villa or just a wolf doing theatre, it’s hard to discern but lowkey leaning more on it being a pocketed townie I think

I’m not really interested in convincing anyone of anything, moreso just doing this for myself, dunno if I’ll make any more posts before eod, too tired etc etc

[ilario]

I suppose x could be someone like lp or jpic

[Sloonei]

I've wavered a bit on my previously-unwavering town read on Mac.

[ilario]

Jpic was somewhat trending up though but I maintain he still hasn’t been as towny as I think he can be

[Sloonei]

LP feels town at this exact moment.

[ilario]

I've wavered a bit on my previously-unwavering town read on Mac.

Fwiw if ur only reason to think mac is town is because good interactions with wolves but nothing towny outside of that, then he’s probs just a wolf lol

[Sloonei]

I've wavered a bit on my previously-unwavering town read on Mac.

Fwiw if ur only reason to think mac is town is because good interactions with wolves but nothing towny outside of that, then he’s probs just a wolf lol

This is not the only reason, but it has been a big one. But then as I was driving home from work earlier I suddenly remembered something very important: he's Mac.

[ilario]

He’s also probably a wolf

[Sloonei]

Another way to phrase that sentence would be this:

[Paopan]

That's not...Even remotely the point of that post.
Mafia can have protective roles. They are useful.
Not to mention, one can just lie about their role?
So "Mafia wouldn't ever pick a Protective role" is just not a defense.

Okay may I ask you a question.
As a mafia player that could choose any roles from the game.
Why would you choose a protective role?

There can be many reasons depending on the strength of the role.
A Jailkeeper is still useful as a roleblocker for example.
A Doctor is just a straight upgrade to Bulletproof which is already a strong Mafia role.
Given the roles that have flipped though it could have any number of weird mechanics that make it strong.
Not dying is surprisingly a very good ability to have.

I agree with Doctor and Jailkeeper being good. But for a unli pool roles. I would rather choose a killing role instead of protective role...
And this is assuming the Capt picked the roles, in which is already proven to be NOT!
So if veterans in this site can't pick who are scum that would've associated Marmot and Dizzy. Then IDK what are we doing here

That's not...Even remotely the point of that post.
Mafia can have protective roles. They are useful.
Not to mention, one can just lie about their role?
So "Mafia wouldn't ever pick a Protective role" is just not a defense.

Okay may I ask you a question.
As a mafia player that could choose any roles from the game.
Why would you choose a protective role?

It is Day 2 and 10 players are already dead. We are about to lose 4 more.

I doubt. I'm currently assuming 2 wolves flip here

[Guillotine]

As town, here is my defense:
- Mafia Capt most probably hand-picked the players
- If Mafia Capt randomed, I am also cleared because they can choose from a pool of roles. So why would I choose a protective role as Mafia? I have big balls of steel

I care about neither of these things.

You care neither of those things as his defense or as subject of discussion?

[Sloonei]

As town, here is my defense:
- Mafia Capt most probably hand-picked the players
- If Mafia Capt randomed, I am also cleared because they can choose from a pool of roles. So why would I choose a protective role as Mafia? I have big balls of steel

I care about neither of these things.

You care neither of those things as his defense or as subject of discussion?

As his defense. And without that value, they serve little to no purpose as topics of discussion.

[Guillotine]

That's not...Even remotely the point of that post.
Mafia can have protective roles. They are useful.
Not to mention, one can just lie about their role?
So "Mafia wouldn't ever pick a Protective role" is just not a defense.

Mafia would def pick a protective role in a game with a 3P faction. Ask Alexa how much she hated to lose as scum because she got killed by the serial killer, exposing her as the deep wolf, i bet she wished they had a protective role.

[Paopan]

As town, here is my defense:
- Mafia Capt most probably hand-picked the players
- If Mafia Capt randomed, I am also cleared because they can choose from a pool of roles. So why would I choose a protective role as Mafia? I have big balls of steel

I care about neither of these things.

You care neither of those things as his defense or as subject of discussion?

As his defense. And without that value, they serve little to no purpose as topics of discussion.

What kind of defense do you propose? Should I plea?

[Sloonei]

As town, here is my defense:
- Mafia Capt most probably hand-picked the players
- If Mafia Capt randomed, I am also cleared because they can choose from a pool of roles. So why would I choose a protective role as Mafia? I have big balls of steel

I care about neither of these things.

You care neither of those things as his defense or as subject of discussion?

As his defense. And without that value, they serve little to no purpose as topics of discussion.

What kind of defense do you propose? Should I plea?

I do not require any defense from you at the moment. Just continue trying to solve the game and I will judge your efforts in that regard.

[Guillotine]

As town, here is my defense:
- Mafia Capt most probably hand-picked the players
- If Mafia Capt randomed, I am also cleared because they can choose from a pool of roles. So why would I choose a protective role as Mafia? I have big balls of steel

I care about neither of these things.

You care neither of those things as his defense or as subject of discussion?

As his defense. And without that value, they serve little to no purpose as topics of discussion.

I do care, i think the Captain picked players. Given how tight this community is with one another, it’s hard to believe anyone here eoukd pass up on the opportunity to play with their dream team.
I wish i had that chance, im so jealous.

[Sloonei]

I think the decisions of the mafia captain depend entirely on who that individual is, and what level of deception they went to in their choices. I think there are way too many variables there to make any assumptions about what would or would not have occurred.

[Guillotine]

And if Dizzy and Marmot were picked, it has to be someone who respect their play and love playing with BOTH of them, as in having a special affinity

[Sloonei]

I would have picked roles, for instance.
Guillo just said that it would be a no-brainer to him to pick players so that he could be with a dream team.
Somebody else might have picked players and gone for a variety of familiar faces and unfamiliar ones.

[Guillotine]

Specially Marmot, who tends to be PoE. What player would pick Marmot?

[Guillotine]

I would have picked roles, for instance.
Guillo just said that it would be a no-brainer to him to pick players so that he could be with a dream team.
Somebody else might have picked players and gone for a variety of familiar faces and unfamiliar ones.

I have three dream teams. I already posted one.

Wanna know my other two?

[Guillotine]

I would have picked roles, for instance.
Guillo just said that it would be a no-brainer to him to pick players so that he could be with a dream team.
Somebody else might have picked players and gone for a variety of familiar faces and unfamiliar ones.

What if they sucked.

[Sloonei]

I would have picked roles, for instance.
Guillo just said that it would be a no-brainer to him to pick players so that he could be with a dream team.
Somebody else might have picked players and gone for a variety of familiar faces and unfamiliar ones.

What if they sucked.

If I was in a position where I was responsible for picking the members of my own mafia team, I would let a random number generator decide for me. I would want no discernible pattern in the construction of my crew.

[Sloonei]

I’d go so far as to say that “no discernible pattern” would be my #1 priority.

[Paopan]

As town, here is my defense:
- Mafia Capt most probably hand-picked the players
- If Mafia Capt randomed, I am also cleared because they can choose from a pool of roles. So why would I choose a protective role as Mafia? I have big balls of steel

I care about neither of these things.

You care neither of those things as his defense or as subject of discussion?

As his defense. And without that value, they serve little to no purpose as topics of discussion.

What kind of defense do you propose? Should I plea?

I do not require any defense from you at the moment. Just continue trying to solve the game and I will judge your efforts in that regard.

That's rather unfair. Why are you shutting me off

[Paopan]

I would have picked roles, for instance.
Guillo just said that it would be a no-brainer to him to pick players so that he could be with a dream team.
Somebody else might have picked players and gone for a variety of familiar faces and unfamiliar ones.

That's what Dizzy said
Guess what alignment the slot turned out to be?

[Sloonei]

As town, here is my defense:
- Mafia Capt most probably hand-picked the players
- If Mafia Capt randomed, I am also cleared because they can choose from a pool of roles. So why would I choose a protective role as Mafia? I have big balls of steel

I care about neither of these things.

You care neither of those things as his defense or as subject of discussion?

As his defense. And without that value, they serve little to no purpose as topics of discussion.

What kind of defense do you propose? Should I plea?

I do not require any defense from you at the moment. Just continue trying to solve the game and I will judge your efforts in that regard.

That's rather unfair. Why are you shutting me off

Paopan, I never asked you to provide any sort of defense. I just chimed in to respond to a couple of points you raised in a conversation that did not involve me. I am not shutting you off from anything.

[sabie12]

Two things that's been on my mind:

Creature and TSP had this thing about drafting, where they simultaneously seemed to think that mafia had picked roles, but also wanted to draft teams. It struck me as a weird thing to care about at the time. And if mafia really did pick teams, and as others also have mentioned, Marmot's role doesn't seem like the strongest. This seems like one of these things that strikes me as important that nobody else will care about. I'm just thinking that mafia knows how the team was formed, and this might be visible in the conversations around that, which sounds really vague lol. But I found that whole conversation around when Creature and TSP brought it up to be kind of weird and pointless and it has stuck with me.

Second thing, and that is Ilario has twice done this thing where he places town as having a better position than scum. Once he said that 7 mafia seemed like not a lot in such a large game. Later he said town would probably win this game easily. This is a typical red flag for me, because it's unusual for town to think they're getting the "better end of the deal". There's a lot of reasons why this is the case, and I've seen it many times before, BUT it's a tell that has failed me a couple of times as well. But it bothered me enough that I wanted to say something and just leave it there. SHADE

Some of Dizzy's comments on the mafia team formation discussion. Points out that marmots role doesn't seem the strongest so more likely team was picked and mafia knows what happened so pay attention to how people talk about it. Does this seem more significant now that we know he is part of the mafia team? I guess he wanted to say it was weird and pointless because he didn't want to give anything away as part of that conversation. He then went on to say he shouldn't pick a team because he would pick too many people. I guess he wouldn't think town has the better end of the deal because he isn't town.

[Porscha]

Would Belzy fake a check on Porscha? I'm really unsatisfied with Porscha this game and I get the impression they're getting away because of the green check a la Boston last MU game.

I don't know what this means

[Phil and Gloria]

im not scum

[Phil and Gloria]

I've wavered a bit on my previously-unwavering town read on Mac.

Fwiw if ur only reason to think mac is town is because good interactions with wolves but nothing towny outside of that, then he’s probs just a wolf lol

ive been obvious town at times tbh

[sabie12]

Where did the Dizzy suspicion go? Was it killed?

A shot rings out!

@Dyslexicon has died! They flip MAFIA! They reveal as:

Palantir

At night, target any player to learn their role, OR target yourself to learn two random roles that are present in the setup. You may only do this once per game.

Spoiler: show

@ 112
@ alexa
@ Belzy
@ c4e5g3d5
@ Creature
@ DrWilgy
@ dyachei
@ Dyslexicon
@ falcon45ca
@ Guillotine
@ hollowkatt
@ ilario
@ Justplayingitcool
@ LinearPoint
@ Master Radishes
@ nutella
@ Paopan
@ Phil and Gloria
@ Porscha
@ sabie12
@ sig
@ Sloonei
@ TonyStarkPrime

Day continues!

oh hell yes

Trying to look through wilgys iso. Both wilgy and dizzy were saying it's probably ender EoD 1 and dizzy chose to vote for ender not wilgy. Then after ender flips town dizzy says wilgy looked bad for EoD. Wilgy hadn't expressed suspicion on dizzy then threw in a noncommittal where did the suspicion go then soon after dizzy gets shot and he makes it a point to seem excited about it and then asks if the suspicion on him can go away now as if he had been suspecting him. So I don't see why wilgy and dizzy couldn't be teammates after these interactions.

[Porscha]

Where did the Dizzy suspicion go? Was it killed?

A shot rings out!

@Dyslexicon has died! They flip MAFIA! They reveal as:

Palantir

At night, target any player to learn their role, OR target yourself to learn two random roles that are present in the setup. You may only do this once per game.

Spoiler: show

@ 112
@ alexa
@ Belzy
@ c4e5g3d5
@ Creature
@ DrWilgy
@ dyachei
@ Dyslexicon
@ falcon45ca
@ Guillotine
@ hollowkatt
@ ilario
@ Justplayingitcool
@ LinearPoint
@ Master Radishes
@ nutella
@ Paopan
@ Phil and Gloria
@ Porscha
@ sabie12
@ sig
@ Sloonei
@ TonyStarkPrime

Day continues!

oh hell yes

Trying to look through wilgys iso. Both wilgy and dizzy were saying it's probably ender EoD 1 and dizzy chose to vote for ender not wilgy. Then after ender flips town dizzy says wilgy looked bad for EoD. Wilgy hadn't expressed suspicion on dizzy then threw in a noncommittal where did the suspicion go then soon after dizzy gets shot and he makes it a point to seem excited about it and then asks if the suspicion on him can go away now as if he had been suspecting him. So I don't see why wilgy and dizzy couldn't be teammates after these interactions.

I'm open to this read even though I had been town reading wilgy more after my interaction with him

[Justplayingitcool]

Jpic was somewhat trending up though but I maintain he still hasn’t been as towny as I think he can be

Are you still comparing me to the game where I was heavily spewed town by two wolves who died early and when JohnCarter townshielded me from the first page?

[sabie12]

i am convinced that nobody who plays mafia with me knows how to read me these days.

i do not even know how to read myself.

i am unreadable.

i am god.

Join the club lol. Didn't you nag all game that I was scum last GoC, and then you turned out to be some cult anti-town monster 3p or something? HMMM

i do not remember more than 5 minutes ago generally, so not sure

i will townread you for the rest of the game because of this interaction, however

i do not remember more than 5 minutes ago generally, so not sure

i will townread you for the rest of the game because of this interaction, however

I think you've done it twice as scum actually. You should probably choose a different tactic next time. The north remembers.

I will note this in my memory logs.

Looked through 112 iso and this was the one notable odd interaction I noticed. What is the pattern that dizzy is referring to like that 112 picks someone to tunnel all game as scum? Is that a thing?

[sabie12]

Town:
Alexa
Ilario
Belzy
Guillo
Sean
Nutella
Alison (think she cares about the game in a town way)
Paopan (don't know them, but surface level this just seems like town)

Jpic and Radish also seem ok.

If you are night killed and flip town, i will sheep your reads.

Went through guillos ISO. With regard to dizzy they went from super suspecting each other to then townreading each other. The wording here made sure to say night killed assuming dizzy could be night killed. Are the town reads on guillo for his claim about his role? Meh that's all I have time and energy for I need to go back to sleep.