The Syndicate

gfishfunk wrote:

S~V~S wrote:

gfishfunk wrote:Right now, my topic scum pick is Epignosis for a simple reason.

Epi was pinging some of the syndicate and did not vote. I targeted Epi with a role block. Only one kill occurred last night, and there should have been two (see the roles in he beginning). With no doctor and no bodyguard, the lack of a kill is indicative of a role block.

Quite the leap there. Alenko, Legion, either could have been at play, not to mention all the roles with once or twice powers.

That's even if the second killer or any of those roles are in the game.

It is just as possible that the killer did not send his/her PM if in the game. And Wrex is the actual bodyguard. Bob's role was a non lethal protection role.

It is certainly possible, but it is one possibility amongst many.

This is standard practice at the realms: expecting two kills and one doesn't go through? Especially if the doctor is known to be dead? You immediately go to the blocked targets.

Its cool if you don't jump to that same conclusion, but the outright dismissal of playstyles is frankly getting old.

So you immediately rely on circumstantial evidence. When a third of the population missed the vote.

Forgive me if I too do not think highly of your "playstyle."

Epignosis wrote:So you immediately rely on circumstantial evidence. When a third of the population missed the vote.

Forgive me if I too do not think highly of your "playstyle."

Neat use of quotes.

You were posting actively up through the end of the phase so I targeted you. Its circumstantial -- like all other evidence in mafia. I blocked you, we are missing a kill. Is that really your response? Deflect and insult the person that revealed information and is trying to provoke discussion?

gfishfunk wrote:

Epignosis wrote:So you immediately rely on circumstantial evidence. When a third of the population missed the vote.

Forgive me if I too do not think highly of your "playstyle."

Neat use of quotes.

You were posting actively up through the end of the phase so I targeted you. Its circumstantial -- like all other evidence in mafia. I blocked you, we are missing a kill. Is that really your response? Deflect and insult the person that revealed information and is trying to provoke discussion?

Hello. I'm Epignosis.

I've been really busy, and I have the Lost Again game in a crucial stage ending with EoD tonight.

I may be in here before then, but probably not. I'll be around tomorrow for sure firing on cylinders as much as I can between PhD work.

DrWilgy wrote:Hey SVS, generally I think you and I read e/o well (unless I'm in a bad place irl that affects my mood here lol). What do you think of me right now? What do you think regarding my suspicions?

Something that isn't sitting right in my stomach is that I have a civ read on LC. Idk why I do, but I do. Oh well.

Why would you having a town read on LC be not sitting right? Do you think he is not town?

gfishfunk wrote:
Bad town picks realizing that this is just my thought process: thellama73 (Don't tell me what to do), CaptainNifty (MovingPictures07), Jackofhearts2005 (MovingPictures07), and Adam (colonialbo). The commonality is that they all mentioned someone that had already been mentioned. (Yes, Adam, I was spamming so that the prior results were always close by). I hardly care who they picked, but I do care that they picked someone that already was posted. I give you a 90% chance one of these people is mafia.

I'm compelled to point out that this is ridiculous argument against me. I pointed out MP well before Jack did.

Fredwood wrote:So Saren is in the game, I'm vanilla now.

Kinda sucks, not as much as EDI dying (sniff)

I didn't initially follow this, but Wigly(?) connected the dots for me. Still, Why would you jump to the Saren thing instead of reading your own damn role? This might have been a mistake (Lord knows I've made similar in mafia), but I don't think you'll ever be able to get out of the yellow now for me.

gfishfunk wrote:Right now, my topic scum pick is Epignosis for a simple reason.

Epi was pinging some of the syndicate and did not vote. I targeted Epi with a role block. Only one kill occurred last night, and there should have been two (see the roles in he beginning). With no doctor and no bodyguard, the lack of a kill is indicative of a role block.

Epi is pinging me as well, and it's not a playstyle thing. If I had a roleblock I probably would have used it on him to. I know Syndicate people aren't used to info dump, but I'd like one from Epi. That's where my vote is going to go.

DrWilgy wrote:I think it's safe to assume we will lynch a baddie if we choose either Gfish today, or Hazelnut Spread friend.

Discuss.

While above I agree with gfish, that doesn't mean that he's not scum. I'm not sold hes civ. I'm leaning to them both as orange right now. I think there's a good chance one of them is scum, but I (and I hate to say this) agree with Jack that it is definitely not safe.

Unless you have some info or special insight - in which case please share.

For what it's worth, I don't think bob got killed because people read him as civ. bob got killed because someone from the Realms told their buddies that the longer bob stayed around the worse it would be for them. Jack is prone to having the town turn against him, I_R was too quiet yesterday to be a factor in the decision, gfish was too suspect to be a good target. I'm never a N1 kill, I don't become dangerous until the midgame. Silver is also under a lot of suspicion and is likely to set himself on fire and take people with him. From a Realms perspective a non-faction cbob or adam are the best first night, and adam has been off his game.

I'll post a rainbow in a bit.

gfishfunk wrote:

S~V~S wrote:

gfishfunk wrote:

Bad town picks realizing that this is just my thought process: thellama73 (Don't tell me what to do), CaptainNifty (MovingPictures07), Jackofhearts2005 (MovingPictures07), and Adam (colonialbo). The commonality is that they all mentioned someone that had already been mentioned. (Yes, Adam, I was spamming so that the prior results were always close by). I hardly care who they picked, but I do care that they picked someone that already was posted. I give you a 90% chance one of these people is mafia.

Maybe you didn't notice, but I posted a full list of reads, including two town picks, right before you started playing your game. If anything, you copied me.

I_R
MP
LC
SVS
dom
dys
Fred
sprit
wigly
adam
Jack
TSP
Silver
nutella
gfish
Epi

Tuck and roll bitches.

DrWilgy wrote:I think it's safe to assume we will lynch a baddie if we choose either Gfish today, or Hazelnut Spread friend.

Discuss.

You just shot to my top list of suspects with this for the bit on gfish.

He put himself out there. We can discuss the likelihood of a second hit. Regardless, he claims to have blocked someone and strongly feels that he blocked a killer. It's a very likely town play as he has almost nothing to gain from that play as scum. A known blocking power and two dead protector rolls? Any scummer would be smart to hit him tonight. Nutella is a different story, but this theory makes me think you want us to lynch a blocker. Especially when you seemingly glossed over Epignosis, the blockee.

@ JoH Look at how it turned out. I'm doing a happy dance right now even with the red card I got yesterday.
For any curious parties: http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showpost. ... tcount=963

I made a post of all the roles and a breakdown of what Epi could possibly be claiming in the Alliance section. It's in Saved Drafts, I wasn't sure if I should reveal it, or if it would end up hurting the Alliance if he's telling the truth.

Adam wrote:Is there an easy way to multiquote that I'm missing?

Give this thread a read. I do lament that we don't have the ability to just click a button on chosen posts as we read through, and find the clicked posts quoted when we finally Reply.

Epignosis wrote:Tuck and roll bitches.

You worried?

Jack and rainbow list controversy:

Why would he even lie about that?

He's been all about rainbow lists since I started playing mafia again ~6 months ago, and it doesn't particularly surprise me he'd do one in mobile and in quick reply.

Also, I'm not a big fan of using actual font colors, because the yellow unavoidably is impossible to read without highlighting the text.

gfishfunk wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:I'd like to know why Gfish would hard claim role blocker with no doctor.

Because I'm scum hunting?

I don't understand why you WOULDN'T say that you role blocked someone when fewer kills than expected occurred and you KNOW the doctor is gone. There is a good chance you blocked a kill, meaning that there is a good chance you hit scum.

There are OTHER possibilities, but this is a pretty good lead.

So wouldn't you build a case on him that doesn't involve getting yourself killed? Unless you aren't afraid of dying tonight.

A roleblocker is vital for civilian success when the doctor is dead. Why stick your neck out? You can accomplish the same without hard claiming.

I'm goimg to review roles during lunch today. Lemme see if I can find out who you are.

Linki - LC, I think Epi is good, and think you should keep that info to yourself for now.

Adam wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Hey SVS, generally I think you and I read e/o well (unless I'm in a bad place irl that affects my mood here lol). What do you think of me right now? What do you think regarding my suspicions?

Something that isn't sitting right in my stomach is that I have a civ read on LC. Idk why I do, but I do. Oh well.

Why would you having a town read on LC be not sitting right? Do you think he is not town?

Idk. I was too accepting of it. I still have a hankering that he is town, but I was quick to come to that.

Re: DrWigly: I am not terribly concerned about not getting killed tonight.

Just a quick ctrl F search shows all possible roleblock roles on the front page if you all want to take a look. There are six roles that can roleblock, all alliance. I think all are one-shots (if I am not misreading or skipping one). There are no dedicated Roleblocks.

Long Con wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Tuck and roll bitches.

You worried?

About?

CaptainNifty wrote:

gfishfunk wrote:

Fredwood wrote:So Saren is in the game, I'm vanilla now.

Kinda sucks, not as much as EDI dying (sniff)

I didn't initially follow this, but Wigly(?) connected the dots for me. Still, Why would you jump to the Saren thing instead of reading your own damn role? This might have been a mistake (Lord knows I've made similar in mafia), but I don't think you'll ever be able to get out of the yellow now for me.

Like I give a shit, I'm pointless now anyway. Lynch me or don't who gives a fuck all I am is a vote, which is silly on a player who doesn't vote that often. Don't really care if you or LC think it's impossible to make a quick assumption in the moment, overlook something, and then be wrong, yep impossible. There would be no point for me to claim Joker if I wasn't fucking Joker.

CaptainNifty wrote:

gfishfunk wrote:
Bad town picks realizing that this is just my thought process: thellama73 (Don't tell me what to do), CaptainNifty (MovingPictures07), Jackofhearts2005 (MovingPictures07), and Adam (colonialbo). The commonality is that they all mentioned someone that had already been mentioned. (Yes, Adam, I was spamming so that the prior results were always close by). I hardly care who they picked, but I do care that they picked someone that already was posted. I give you a 90% chance one of these people is mafia.

I'm compelled to point out that this is ridiculous argument against me. I pointed out MP well before Jack did.

I pointed out MP before either of you. For the record. Good to have complete records.

Fredwood wrote:So Saren is in the game, I'm vanilla now.

Kinda sucks, not as much as EDI dying (sniff)

I didn't initially follow this, but Wigly(?) connected the dots for me. Still, Why would you jump to the Saren thing instead of reading your own damn role? This might have been a mistake (Lord knows I've made similar in mafia), but I don't think you'll ever be able to get out of the yellow now for me.

I thought about this more. Logically, someone who is "Joker" should take this opportunity now to roleclaim and prove that Fredwood is lying. Having recently become vanilla, that player would likely jump at the chance to nail a baddie and be useful. Unless that player is afraid of getting nightkilled for it, but why would Fredwood, as a baddie, open himself up to that possibility? To nail a vanilla Civ?

I think Fredwood might be telling the truth.

gfishfunk wrote:Right now, my topic scum pick is Epignosis for a simple reason.

Epi was pinging some of the syndicate and did not vote. I targeted Epi with a role block. Only one kill occurred last night, and there should have been two (see the roles in he beginning). With no doctor and no bodyguard, the lack of a kill is indicative of a role block.

Epi is pinging me as well, and it's not a playstyle thing. If I had a roleblock I probably would have used it on him to. I know Syndicate people aren't used to info dump, but I'd like one from Epi. That's where my vote is going to go.

Will you believe it?

DrWilgy wrote:I think it's safe to assume we will lynch a baddie if we choose either Gfish today, or Hazelnut Spread friend.

Discuss.

While above I agree with gfish, that doesn't mean that he's not scum. I'm not sold hes civ. I'm leaning to them both as orange right now. I think there's a good chance one of them is scum, but I (and I hate to say this) agree with Jack that it is definitely not safe.

Unless you have some info or special insight - in which case please share.

For what it's worth, I don't think bob got killed because people read him as civ. bob got killed because someone from the Realms told their buddies that the longer bob stayed around the worse it would be for them. Jack is prone to having the town turn against him, I_R was too quiet yesterday to be a factor in the decision, gfish was too suspect to be a good target. I'm never a N1 kill, I don't become dangerous until the midgame. Silver is also under a lot of suspicion and is likely to set himself on fire and take people with him. From a Realms perspective a non-faction cbob or adam are the best first night, and adam has been off his game.

That last paragraph is interesting. I'd like to hear some Realmsfolk weigh in on it.

Fredwood wrote:

CaptainNifty wrote:

gfishfunk wrote:

Fredwood wrote:So Saren is in the game, I'm vanilla now.

Kinda sucks, not as much as EDI dying (sniff)

I didn't initially follow this, but Wigly(?) connected the dots for me. Still, Why would you jump to the Saren thing instead of reading your own damn role? This might have been a mistake (Lord knows I've made similar in mafia), but I don't think you'll ever be able to get out of the yellow now for me.

Like I give a shit, I'm pointless now anyway. Lynch me or don't who gives a fuck all I am is a vote, which is silly on a player who doesn't vote that often. Don't really care if you or LC think it's impossible to make a quick assumption in the moment, overlook something, and then be wrong, yep impossible. There would be no point for me to claim Joker if I wasn't fucking Joker.

Nah dude, I worked it out more, I think you're legit.

Epignosis wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Tuck and roll bitches.

You worried?

About?

Falling from the second storey maybe? Getting thrown from a horse? Or that you'll be lynched over this roleblock thingy?

DrWilgy wrote:

Adam wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Hey SVS, generally I think you and I read e/o well (unless I'm in a bad place irl that affects my mood here lol). What do you think of me right now? What do you think regarding my suspicions?

Something that isn't sitting right in my stomach is that I have a civ read on LC. Idk why I do, but I do. Oh well.

Why would you having a town read on LC be not sitting right? Do you think he is not town?

Idk. I was too accepting of it. I still have a hankering that he is town, but I was quick to come to that.

It is usually not desirable to come to quick. To a green read, that is.

gfishfunk wrote:

S~V~S wrote:

gfishfunk wrote:Right now, my topic scum pick is Epignosis for a simple reason.

Epi was pinging some of the syndicate and did not vote. I targeted Epi with a role block. Only one kill occurred last night, and there should have been two (see the roles in he beginning). With no doctor and no bodyguard, the lack of a kill is indicative of a role block.

Quite the leap there. Alenko, Legion, either could have been at play, not to mention all the roles with once or twice powers.

That's even if the second killer or any of those roles are in the game.

It is just as possible that the killer did not send his/her PM if in the game. And Wrex is the actual bodyguard. Bob's role was a non lethal protection role.

It is certainly possible, but it is one possibility amongst many.

This is standard practice at the realms: expecting two kills and one doesn't go through? Especially if the doctor is known to be dead? You immediately go to the blocked targets.

Its cool if you don't jump to that same conclusion, but the outright dismissal of playstyles is frankly getting old.

I am not dismissing anything; but it IS a leap, especially since the protector role is not dead. It is also possible that someone missed a PM or one of the role switchers was at work. This is a super complex role list, and while what you say is super possible, it is certainly not conclusive.

This person protects against NKs, too, not just Chakwas:

Urdnot Wrex
You’re a grizzled mercenary that was hired by the Shadow Broker to take out Fist, but when Shepard needed a crew, you decided to volunteer. And since they found your ancestral armor and proved they were loyal to you, you decided to be loyal to your friend.

You’re a natural bodyguard, and each night you can interpose yourself between your chosen mark and any kill attempts. Though you are a pretty tough krogan, you might not survive the hit attempt. However, if you die defending a town member in this way, you will leave the game with an alternate win condition as krogans love those that die in glorious battle. Your death will also not be janitored, in that case, though keep in mind someone can still nightkill YOU directly!

Are you even willing to consider other possibilities is my question, I guess. Or are you stone cold sure based on this night result?

S~V~S wrote:

gfishfunk wrote:Right now, my topic scum pick is Epignosis for a simple reason.

Epi was pinging some of the syndicate and did not vote. I targeted Epi with a role block. Only one kill occurred last night, and there should have been two (see the roles in he beginning). With no doctor and no bodyguard, the lack of a kill is indicative of a role block.

Quite the leap there. Alenko, Legion, either could have been at play, not to mention all the roles with once or twice powers.

That's even if the second killer or any of those roles are in the game.

It is just as possible that the killer did not send his/her PM if in the game. And Wrex is the actual bodyguard. Bob's role was a non lethal protection role.

It is certainly possible, but it is one possibility amongst many.

gfishfunk wrote:

S~V~S wrote:

gfishfunk wrote:Right now, my topic scum pick is Epignosis for a simple reason.

Epi was pinging some of the syndicate and did not vote. I targeted Epi with a role block. Only one kill occurred last night, and there should have been two (see the roles in he beginning). With no doctor and no bodyguard, the lack of a kill is indicative of a role block.

Quite the leap there. Alenko, Legion, either could have been at play, not to mention all the roles with once or twice powers.

That's even if the second killer or any of those roles are in the game.

It is just as possible that the killer did not send his/her PM if in the game. And Wrex is the actual bodyguard. Bob's role was a non lethal protection role.

It is certainly possible, but it is one possibility amongst many.

This is standard practice at the realms: expecting two kills and one doesn't go through? Especially if the doctor is known to be dead? You immediately go to the blocked targets.

Its cool if you don't jump to that same conclusion, but the outright dismissal of playstyles is frankly getting old.

gfishfunk wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: REAPERS (3 roles)
They share behind the scenes communication. Win the game by eliminating the Alliance, Cerberus, and any hostile independents.
They kill on Nights 1, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 10, 12 (and so on with even-numbered nights)

CERBERUS (3 roles)
They share behind the scenes communication. Win the game by eliminating the Alliance, the Reapers, and any hostile independents.
They kill on Nights 1, 2, 4, 6, 7, 9, 11, 13 (and so on with odd-numbered nights)

Two kills on night 1.

DrWilgy wrote:My primary concern with Hazelnut is her lack of content and her civ read of me.

Past games quick glance
Phenon > Nut is Civ > Reads me bad
Currents > Nut is civ > Unsure of me
Here > Nut is unknown > Town reads me

This is also with her knowing that I still want my revenge from phenon. (I didn't get it in currents, and even made it known that I missed my chance). Makes me think she doesn't want to fight me.

Her uncertainty d1 however, is something I'm used to with her.

I'd like to know why Gfish would hard claim role blocker with no doctor.

gfishfunk wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:I'd like to know why Gfish would hard claim role blocker with no doctor.

Because I'm scum hunting?

I don't understand why you WOULDN'T say that you role blocked someone when fewer kills than expected occurred and you KNOW the doctor is gone. There is a good chance you blocked a kill, meaning that there is a good chance you hit scum.

There are OTHER possibilities, but this is a pretty good lead.

Epignosis wrote:

gfishfunk wrote:

S~V~S wrote:

gfishfunk wrote:Right now, my topic scum pick is Epignosis for a simple reason.

Epi was pinging some of the syndicate and did not vote. I targeted Epi with a role block. Only one kill occurred last night, and there should have been two (see the roles in he beginning). With no doctor and no bodyguard, the lack of a kill is indicative of a role block.

Quite the leap there. Alenko, Legion, either could have been at play, not to mention all the roles with once or twice powers.

That's even if the second killer or any of those roles are in the game.

It is just as possible that the killer did not send his/her PM if in the game. And Wrex is the actual bodyguard. Bob's role was a non lethal protection role.

It is certainly possible, but it is one possibility amongst many.

This is standard practice at the realms: expecting two kills and one doesn't go through? Especially if the doctor is known to be dead? You immediately go to the blocked targets.

Its cool if you don't jump to that same conclusion, but the outright dismissal of playstyles is frankly getting old.

So you immediately rely on circumstantial evidence. When a third of the population missed the vote.

Forgive me if I too do not think highly of your "playstyle."

gfishfunk wrote:

Epignosis wrote:So you immediately rely on circumstantial evidence. When a third of the population missed the vote.

Forgive me if I too do not think highly of your "playstyle."

Neat use of quotes.

You were posting actively up through the end of the phase so I targeted you. Its circumstantial -- like all other evidence in mafia. I blocked you, we are missing a kill. Is that really your response? Deflect and insult the person that revealed information and is trying to provoke discussion?

Playing with multiquoting

I'm assuming this is a bit of a clash of playstyles situation, as my understanding is that normal games here forbid role claiming. But I don't like the hand-waving that's coming out as a result of gfish's info. He has given us a lead; no it's not definitive; yes, there are other explanations as to why there was only one kill the previous night. But we should ignore the fact that a kill was missing and we know who was roleblocked?

I am voting epignosis for now. I am also intrigued to see so many jumping to his defense so readily, when the only way they would know he didn't attempt a kill is if they were teammates.

Long Con wrote:

Immortal_Raven wrote:
For what it's worth, I don't think bob got killed because people read him as civ. bob got killed because someone from the Realms told their buddies that the longer bob stayed around the worse it would be for them. Jack is prone to having the town turn against him, I_R was too quiet yesterday to be a factor in the decision, gfish was too suspect to be a good target. I'm never a N1 kill, I don't become dangerous until the midgame. Silver is also under a lot of suspicion and is likely to set himself on fire and take people with him. From a Realms perspective a non-faction cbob or adam are the best first night, and adam has been off his game.

That last paragraph is interesting. I'd like to hear some Realmsfolk weigh in on it.

I don't disagree, but I tend to believe that scum plays more opportunistically. My own first night kill targets tend to be more gut feel than a meta-analysis, other than staying away from players that have had hard runs or recently had night 1 deaths.

I think its more possible that scum teams comprised of primarily one side or another (syndicate v. hcrealms) would wind up targeting someone from the other site to avoid meta - especially since we discussed meta so heavily yesterday.

Immortal_Raven wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:I think it's safe to assume we will lynch a baddie if we choose either Gfish today, or Hazelnut Spread friend.

Discuss.

You just shot to my top list of suspects with this for the bit on gfish.

He put himself out there. We can discuss the likelihood of a second hit. Regardless, he claims to have blocked someone and strongly feels that he blocked a killer. It's a very likely town play as he has almost nothing to gain from that play as scum. A known blocking power and two dead protector rolls? Any scummer would be smart to hit him tonight. Nutella is a different story, but this theory makes me think you want us to lynch a blocker. Especially when you seemingly glossed over Epignosis, the blockee.

I wanted Gfish dead yesterday. Why because I want him dead again today, I'm specifically targeting a role blocker now? This feels like a bullshit poopoo on you (while I'm not going to read your other posts).

I haven't been wrong in my past 4-5 reads of Epignosis. I'm confident that we are seeing his bullshit civ game. While it is bullshit, it's civ.

LC can even vouch for this, I was raving about this in deadie chat our last game together.

@ S-V-S: I'm not going to deny that there are other possibilities, and I definitely did not notice the second protector role - but I am willing to assume the other protector role is not int he game after we lost a bodyguard and a doctor already. Still - a lead is a lead is a lead.

@ Adam: I'm chalking this down to massive style clash, which will be healthy for everyone involved. I think its healthy to try to adapt to other people's playstyle and healthy to force other people to play according to my own. Hence my vote on Epi.

@DrWigly again: I appreciate your consistency with me. Its a bit frustrating when one of my town reads has me as their highest scum read.

Long Con wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Tuck and roll bitches.

You worried?

About?

Falling from the second storey maybe? Getting thrown from a horse? Or that you'll be lynched over this roleblock thingy?

Worried? Not at all, but I will lose my shit if I'm lynched because someone role blocked me and the kill was missed.

That's elementary-level analysis. In a set-up that involves a dead protector, a living blocker, and a killer, and that's it, okay fine. You got me. Them's the breaks.

In this? Not straightforward at all. I don't fault fish for realizing he has a clue, but I do think it's lazy if he lynches me. I didn't try to kill anybody, so fish's block is irrelevant, and was sadly wasted.

For those who experienced it, does RotTK N1 mean anything?

I think more damning then the RB is the pinging of those he normally plays with. The RB is just giving him an excuse to deflect any and all shade on him as unfounded. RB at this point is just distracting because we're arguing about that now instead of the actual heat.

gfishfunk wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Immortal_Raven wrote:
For what it's worth, I don't think bob got killed because people read him as civ. bob got killed because someone from the Realms told their buddies that the longer bob stayed around the worse it would be for them. Jack is prone to having the town turn against him, I_R was too quiet yesterday to be a factor in the decision, gfish was too suspect to be a good target. I'm never a N1 kill, I don't become dangerous until the midgame. Silver is also under a lot of suspicion and is likely to set himself on fire and take people with him. From a Realms perspective a non-faction cbob or adam are the best first night, and adam has been off his game.

That last paragraph is interesting. I'd like to hear some Realmsfolk weigh in on it.

I don't disagree, but I tend to believe that scum plays more opportunistically. My own first night kill targets tend to be more gut feel than a meta-analysis, other than staying away from players that have had hard runs or recently had night 1 deaths.

I think its more possible that scum teams comprised of primarily one side or another (syndicate v. hcrealms) would wind up targeting someone from the other site to avoid meta - especially since we discussed meta so heavily yesterday.

I think a team of Syndicate players would avoid killing a Realms player on Night 1 as a gesture of goodwill and welcome between our communities. I do think it's most likely that both teams have a mix of Realms and Syndicate players though.

Fredwood wrote:

CaptainNifty wrote:

gfishfunk wrote:

Fredwood wrote:So Saren is in the game, I'm vanilla now.

Kinda sucks, not as much as EDI dying (sniff)

I didn't initially follow this, but Wigly(?) connected the dots for me. Still, Why would you jump to the Saren thing instead of reading your own damn role? This might have been a mistake (Lord knows I've made similar in mafia), but I don't think you'll ever be able to get out of the yellow now for me.

Like I give a shit, I'm pointless now anyway. Lynch me or don't who gives a fuck all I am is a vote, which is silly on a player who doesn't vote that often. Don't really care if you or LC think it's impossible to make a quick assumption in the moment, overlook something, and then be wrong, yep impossible. There would be no point for me to claim Joker if I wasn't fucking Joker.

You're pretty much confirmed by the way I'm reading the roles, unless someone else comes up and claims to be Joker. Confirmed town is a very powerful thing, even if you don't have a night action. Maybe especially if you don't have a night action, because then it's harder for the mafia to justify killing you.

gfishfunk wrote:Re: DrWigly: I am not terribly concerned about not getting killed tonight.

Just a quick ctrl F search shows all possible roleblock roles on the front page if you all want to take a look. There are six roles that can roleblock, all alliance. I think all are one-shots (if I am not misreading or skipping one). There are no dedicated Roleblocks.

Are you a one shot? What prompted you to use it day 1? Were you that confident in your read of Epi?

That was almost impossible to read. Not sure how you did it

And I am not defending Epi; I am pointing out other possiblities when someone appears to be leaping to a conclusion imo. Apparently funkyfish has been taking some suspish and he is actually a civ read for me, so I want him to be sure of himself.

DrWilgy wrote: I'm confident that we are seeing his bullshit civ game. While it is bullshit, it's civ.

Thanks.

Love you boo

Epignosis wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Tuck and roll bitches.

You worried?

About?

Falling from the second storey maybe? Getting thrown from a horse? Or that you'll be lynched over this roleblock thingy?

Worried? Not at all, but I will lose my shit if I'm lynched because someone role blocked me and the kill was missed.

That's elementary-level analysis. In a set-up that involves a dead protector, a living blocker, and a killer, and that's it, okay fine. You got me. Them's the breaks.

In this? Not straightforward at all. I don't fault fish for realizing he has a clue, but I do think it's lazy if he lynches me. I didn't try to kill anybody, so fish's block is irrelevant, and was sadly wasted.

For those who experienced it, does RotTK N1 mean anything?

I didn't play that game. A new thought I have, though, is this: with the attention I was bringing to you on night 1, you would be the last choice on a Mafia team for 'who should perform the kill'. BECAUSE you are likely to be tracked/blocked/watched or whatever.

I don't think Epi is the kill-attempter. Maybe they both targeted Bob. I mean, Bob was the original Civ read, wasn't he?

Here's something to chew on:

If I am bad and on a team, I'm usually not going to be the one carrying out the kill. Can you guess why?

But y'all go ahead with yay role blocks if you want to. Civilians are fucked if that's the operating procedure.

Damn LC.

Long Con wrote:

CaptainNifty wrote:

gfishfunk wrote:
Bad town picks realizing that this is just my thought process: thellama73 (Don't tell me what to do), CaptainNifty (MovingPictures07), Jackofhearts2005 (MovingPictures07), and Adam (colonialbo). The commonality is that they all mentioned someone that had already been mentioned. (Yes, Adam, I was spamming so that the prior results were always close by). I hardly care who they picked, but I do care that they picked someone that already was posted. I give you a 90% chance one of these people is mafia.

I'm compelled to point out that this is ridiculous argument against me. I pointed out MP well before Jack did.

I pointed out MP before either of you. For the record. Good to have complete records.

Fredwood wrote:So Saren is in the game, I'm vanilla now.

Kinda sucks, not as much as EDI dying (sniff)

I didn't initially follow this, but Wigly(?) connected the dots for me. Still, Why would you jump to the Saren thing instead of reading your own damn role? This might have been a mistake (Lord knows I've made similar in mafia), but I don't think you'll ever be able to get out of the yellow now for me.

I thought about this more. Logically, someone who is "Joker" should take this opportunity now to roleclaim and prove that Fredwood is lying. Having recently become vanilla, that player would likely jump at the chance to nail a baddie and be useful. Unless that player is afraid of getting nightkilled for it, but why would Fredwood, as a baddie, open himself up to that possibility? To nail a vanilla Civ?

I think Fredwood might be telling the truth.

gfishfunk wrote:Right now, my topic scum pick is Epignosis for a simple reason.

Epi was pinging some of the syndicate and did not vote. I targeted Epi with a role block. Only one kill occurred last night, and there should have been two (see the roles in he beginning). With no doctor and no bodyguard, the lack of a kill is indicative of a role block.

Epi is pinging me as well, and it's not a playstyle thing. If I had a roleblock I probably would have used it on him to. I know Syndicate people aren't used to info dump, but I'd like one from Epi. That's where my vote is going to go.

Will you believe it?

DrWilgy wrote:I think it's safe to assume we will lynch a baddie if we choose either Gfish today, or Hazelnut Spread friend.

Discuss.

While above I agree with gfish, that doesn't mean that he's not scum. I'm not sold hes civ. I'm leaning to them both as orange right now. I think there's a good chance one of them is scum, but I (and I hate to say this) agree with Jack that it is definitely not safe.

Unless you have some info or special insight - in which case please share.

For what it's worth, I don't think bob got killed because people read him as civ. bob got killed because someone from the Realms told their buddies that the longer bob stayed around the worse it would be for them. Jack is prone to having the town turn against him, I_R was too quiet yesterday to be a factor in the decision, gfish was too suspect to be a good target. I'm never a N1 kill, I don't become dangerous until the midgame. Silver is also under a lot of suspicion and is likely to set himself on fire and take people with him. From a Realms perspective a non-faction cbob or adam are the best first night, and adam has been off his game.

That last paragraph is interesting. I'd like to hear some Realmsfolk weigh in on it.

Fredwood is almost definitely telling the truth. The only reason to doubt it would be someone else popping up to claim the same role, which would end up with one of the two being lynched, and if we got the wrong one the other would immediately be lynched. It's be a 1:1 trade which is in the town's favor.

Last paragraph - Colonialbob is a very good mafia player. Very good mafia players tend to draw more than their fair share of Night 1 deaths. But, on HCR Day 1 is more like Day 0, so Night 1 deaths are all about meta rather than gameplay. So the logic doesn't translate directly when we have a real Day 1. That's also a good reason to kill him when he's onto one of your teammates and then say he more likely died because of his reputation than his play in this game.

Epignosis wrote:Damn LC.

Oh boi.

It's dangerously funny how these communities mingle.

Romance of the Three Kingdoms Day 1:

Epignosis wrote:Half of the field missed the vote. Nineteen people.

Romance of the Three Kingdoms Night 1:

Epignosis wrote:

Day 2: The Farmers of Hsiaop’ei are Troubled

雞和山羊

The death of Ahuinan, Meng Huo’s third ravine chief of Nanzhong, resulted in a series of misfortune for the farmers of Hsiaop’ei, because it was reported that Ahuinan was cut down in the vicinity of Hsiaop’ei. The misfortune happened all in one night. A band of distraught farmers sought the advice of one of the elders in that region, a learned man who had fathered seven sons and outlived all of them.

The first farmer approached holding a dead rooster. “Armed men came and slaughtered our chickens. They left behind feathers that do not belong to any of our animals.”

A second man came forward and produced the head of a goat. “Armed men came and slaughtered our goats. They left behind yellow cloth, which we do not wear.”

“This is a good omen,” observed the sage.

“How can you say this a good omen?” asked one of the men of Hsiaop’ei.

“Consider that both the barbarians of the south and the mystical rebels have visited your people in the span of the same night, and all of them are accounted for.”

No one has been killed. It is now Day 2. You have 48 hours and two votes each to decide who will be in the second duel.

What happened there?

Fredwood wrote:
Like I give a shit, I'm pointless now anyway. Lynch me or don't who gives a fuck all I am is a vote, which is silly on a player who doesn't vote that often. Don't really care if you or LC think it's impossible to make a quick assumption in the moment, overlook something, and then be wrong, yep impossible. There would be no point for me to claim Joker if I wasn't fucking Joker.

Your hostility is not helping. Like Wigly I believe you, but this level of hate is completely uncalled for.

Long Con wrote:

CaptainNifty wrote:
Epi is pinging me as well, and it's not a playstyle thing. If I had a roleblock I probably would have used it on him to. I know Syndicate people aren't used to info dump, but I'd like one from Epi. That's where my vote is going to go.

Will you believe it?

I'm certainly open to believing it. I certainly won't dismiss it out of hand.


*I know a lot has happened since I started constructing these posts, so I'm going to submit these and then go back and catch up.*

Epignosis wrote:Here's something to chew on:

If I am bad and on a team, I'm usually not going to be the one carrying out the kill. Can you guess why?

But y'all go ahead with yay role blocks if you want to. Civilians are fucked if that's the operating procedure.

Not having played with you, I wouldn't know. At the same time, that is a great way to justify giving you the kill as a member of a mafia team: if everyone assumes you wouldn't be given the kill, give him the kill.

DrWilgy wrote:

gfishfunk wrote:Re: DrWigly: I am not terribly concerned about not getting killed tonight.

Just a quick ctrl F search shows all possible roleblock roles on the front page if you all want to take a look. There are six roles that can roleblock, all alliance. I think all are one-shots (if I am not misreading or skipping one). There are no dedicated Roleblocks.

Are you a one shot? What prompted you to use it day 1? Were you that confident in your read of Epi?

All roleblocks are one-shots.

I tend to use powers rather than let them linger and potentially go unused after I am dead.

Long Con wrote:

gfishfunk wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Immortal_Raven wrote:
For what it's worth, I don't think bob got killed because people read him as civ. bob got killed because someone from the Realms told their buddies that the longer bob stayed around the worse it would be for them. Jack is prone to having the town turn against him, I_R was too quiet yesterday to be a factor in the decision, gfish was too suspect to be a good target. I'm never a N1 kill, I don't become dangerous until the midgame. Silver is also under a lot of suspicion and is likely to set himself on fire and take people with him. From a Realms perspective a non-faction cbob or adam are the best first night, and adam has been off his game.

That last paragraph is interesting. I'd like to hear some Realmsfolk weigh in on it.

I don't disagree, but I tend to believe that scum plays more opportunistically. My own first night kill targets tend to be more gut feel than a meta-analysis, other than staying away from players that have had hard runs or recently had night 1 deaths.

I think its more possible that scum teams comprised of primarily one side or another (syndicate v. hcrealms) would wind up targeting someone from the other site to avoid meta - especially since we discussed meta so heavily yesterday.

I think a team of Syndicate players would avoid killing a Realms player on Night 1 as a gesture of goodwill and welcome between our communities. I do think it's most likely that both teams have a mix of Realms and Syndicate players though.

If I were designing the game I would ensure that happened in the setup (players from both sites in all factions). And the fact that signups had quotas from both sites lends me to believe that. The point is for people to play together with new people - having a mafia from only one side detracts from that goal.

Adam said:
Fredwood is almost definitely telling the truth. The only reason to doubt it would be someone else popping up to claim the same role, which would end up with one of the two being lynched, and if we got the wrong one the other would immediately be lynched. It's be a 1:1 trade which is in the town's favor.

Last paragraph - Colonialbob is a very good mafia player. Very good mafia players tend to draw more than their fair share of Night 1 deaths. But, on HCR Day 1 is more like Day 0, so Night 1 deaths are all about meta rather than gameplay. So the logic doesn't translate directly when we have a real Day 1. That's also a good reason to kill him when he's onto one of your teammates and then say he more likely died because of his reputation than his play in this game.

I really like this post re the last paragraph. This is exactly how I feel. It could be either reason, or both since teams are probably mixed.

Re Freds role claim, I kind of thought someone else might be hinting in that direction, but I am notoriously bad with hints, so I could be wrong.

gfishfunk wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Immortal_Raven wrote:
For what it's worth, I don't think bob got killed because people read him as civ. bob got killed because someone from the Realms told their buddies that the longer bob stayed around the worse it would be for them. Jack is prone to having the town turn against him, I_R was too quiet yesterday to be a factor in the decision, gfish was too suspect to be a good target. I'm never a N1 kill, I don't become dangerous until the midgame. Silver is also under a lot of suspicion and is likely to set himself on fire and take people with him. From a Realms perspective a non-faction cbob or adam are the best first night, and adam has been off his game.

That last paragraph is interesting. I'd like to hear some Realmsfolk weigh in on it.

I don't disagree, but I tend to believe that scum plays more opportunistically. My own first night kill targets tend to be more gut feel than a meta-analysis, other than staying away from players that have had hard runs or recently had night 1 deaths.

I think its more possible that scum teams comprised of primarily one side or another (syndicate v. hcrealms) would wind up targeting someone from the other site to avoid meta - especially since we discussed meta so heavily yesterday.

I guess it depends on your fear of Bob maybe. A couple of years ago maybe this is true where the meta was kill the best players first. The games I've played in recently at the realms are no longer like this, or maybe it is and now the opinions greatly differ.

I tend to randomly kill, or kill the most neutral player I can possibly pick on N1. So if I were on the scum team a Bob kill means literally nothing. If someone like me dies, it was likely random, I'm not considered a scumhunting threat. So all that to say
I've never learned much by trying to decipher scum kill targets.

Epignosis wrote:Romance of the Three Kingdoms Day 1:

Epignosis wrote:Half of the field missed the vote. Nineteen people.

Romance of the Three Kingdoms Night 1:

Epignosis wrote:

Day 2: The Farmers of Hsiaop’ei are Troubled

雞和山羊

The death of Ahuinan, Meng Huo’s third ravine chief of Nanzhong, resulted in a series of misfortune for the farmers of Hsiaop’ei, because it was reported that Ahuinan was cut down in the vicinity of Hsiaop’ei. The misfortune happened all in one night. A band of distraught farmers sought the advice of one of the elders in that region, a learned man who had fathered seven sons and outlived all of them.

The first farmer approached holding a dead rooster. “Armed men came and slaughtered our chickens. They left behind feathers that do not belong to any of our animals.”

A second man came forward and produced the head of a goat. “Armed men came and slaughtered our goats. They left behind yellow cloth, which we do not wear.”

“This is a good omen,” observed the sage.

“How can you say this a good omen?” asked one of the men of Hsiaop’ei.

“Consider that both the barbarians of the south and the mystical rebels have visited your people in the span of the same night, and all of them are accounted for.”

No one has been killed. It is now Day 2. You have 48 hours and two votes each to decide who will be in the second duel.

What happened there?

My guess: Epignosis was just diligent enough to find the post, just lazy enough not to do the analysis, and just cokcy enough to refer to a game that at least half the players had not played and present it like damning evidence?

Just a hunch though. I have enough on my plate reading through this game without having to read through a dozen others or so. Make a point. Or don't.