The Syndicate

Whatever the fuck stanard meta is lol.

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 6:59 am Can you townreads me pls?

Maybe. : p

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 10:17 pm Choutas and Kylemii

Spoiler: show

Choutas didn't mention him.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 7:08 pm what is choutas like regularly

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 7:19 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 7:11 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 7:08 pm what is choutas like regularly

Kyle my boy, your questions are so vague sometimes.

ya know? like regular choutas? what's he do

Kyle wants to acquire knowledge.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 7:58 pm biggest thing to stick out at me about choutas is that he complained about there not being much happening in the game and proceeded to not do anything about it

Werd.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 8:15 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 7:14 pm In Ancient Greece, Choutas got off to a slow start. He didn't hesitate to make game-relevant comments though, and he was incisive.

Ancient Greece Choutas ISO

This time he has given much less in the way of reads, and doesn't seem oriented toward getting to a place where he can have reads.

Easter Choutas ISO

I agree with your assessment, I forgot choutas was so active in greece

Werd.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 8:52 pm

Choutas wrote: ↑Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:16 pm Hopefully I'll be able to post in some hours.
Work related problems arose and a million things to do today aside work.
Just try to cope with my absence and if it gets worse I'll politely ask to be replaced.

choutas had work shit early game greece as well, not the factor.

Kyle conceives of a reason to give Choutas a break and then takes it away again. Nice.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 9:02 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 8:46 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 8:43 pm

Choutas wrote: ↑Sun May 20, 2018 2:49 pm I still have a heavy day load so please bear with it another time guys.

if there's any documented reason for why choutas would be less active this game it's this

Who would you like to murder, Syndicate user Kylemii?

i think choutas seems like a pretty good option, I'm just nervous cus it seems a little too obvious. His scum hunting effort is clearly different between here and ancient Greece. In AG he was pointing things out, and making accusations even if he wasn't leading the posting race or anything.

Relative tiimidness. Sure.

~~~

I think Kyle looks great. Low-probability teammate.

Kyle's Day 1 vote: Choutas

I disagree; how are you reaching this conclusion? I don't think Kyle looks awful, but he seems like a candidate for bussing to me: didn't even discuss Choutas for the first time until close to EoD.

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 7:35 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 10:17 pm Choutas and Kylemii

Spoiler: show

Choutas didn't mention him.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 7:08 pm what is choutas like regularly

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 7:19 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 7:11 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 7:08 pm what is choutas like regularly

Kyle my boy, your questions are so vague sometimes.

ya know? like regular choutas? what's he do

Kyle wants to acquire knowledge.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 7:58 pm biggest thing to stick out at me about choutas is that he complained about there not being much happening in the game and proceeded to not do anything about it

Werd.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 8:15 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 7:14 pm In Ancient Greece, Choutas got off to a slow start. He didn't hesitate to make game-relevant comments though, and he was incisive.

Ancient Greece Choutas ISO

This time he has given much less in the way of reads, and doesn't seem oriented toward getting to a place where he can have reads.

Easter Choutas ISO

I agree with your assessment, I forgot choutas was so active in greece

Werd.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 8:52 pm

Choutas wrote: ↑Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:16 pm Hopefully I'll be able to post in some hours.
Work related problems arose and a million things to do today aside work.
Just try to cope with my absence and if it gets worse I'll politely ask to be replaced.

choutas had work shit early game greece as well, not the factor.

Kyle conceives of a reason to give Choutas a break and then takes it away again. Nice.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 9:02 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 8:46 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 8:43 pm

Choutas wrote: ↑Sun May 20, 2018 2:49 pm I still have a heavy day load so please bear with it another time guys.

if there's any documented reason for why choutas would be less active this game it's this

Who would you like to murder, Syndicate user Kylemii?

i think choutas seems like a pretty good option, I'm just nervous cus it seems a little too obvious. His scum hunting effort is clearly different between here and ancient Greece. In AG he was pointing things out, and making accusations even if he wasn't leading the posting race or anything.

Relative tiimidness. Sure.

~~~

I think Kyle looks great. Low-probability teammate.

Kyle's Day 1 vote: Choutas

I disagree; how are you reaching this conclusion? I don't think Kyle looks awful, but he seems like a candidate for bussing to me: didn't even discuss Choutas for the first time until close to EoD.

Many people fit that description including you. Kyle critically assessed the matter of a Choutas lynch on both sides in a way that looks authentic to me. I especially liked his investigation of possible factors external to the game which might explain Choutas’s slow start. That could have worked in defense of Choutas, but without a ton of delay Kyle reviewed the content in both this game and Ancient Greece before deciding against Choutas having any unique excuses.

Responses in dead red because I'm a dead man walking or something like that.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 10:30 pm Choutas and M Plus 7

Choutas didn't mention him.

First rainbow has Choutas in a large peach-colored middle tier.

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 11:31 am

wolbre04 wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 11:29 am Where u at coitus [VOTE: Choutas] aubergine

wolbre. You're cool man, and I'm glad to be playing with you again, but stuff has happened. Don't bother throwing a vote like that. What do you think of that stuff?

I don't really know what's going on in this post. Why discourage wolbre from his vote (if that's what is happening)?

That's not really what was happening. I wanted to spur the generation of thread content and engage wolbre on his reads, which he had not expressed. Then when he threw a pressure vote on someone, I tried to engage him directly. I didn't care about the recipient of his vote given it was a weak pressure vote. Hope that clarifies things.

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 6:28 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 6:26 pm Players, please talk to me about...

Choutas

Yes. Good idea. I remember nothing about Choutas this game. Let me take a look.

Can't blame him for lacking memory. That's why I brought Choutas up.

Thanks for doing that.

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 6:30 pm

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 6:28 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 6:26 pm Players, please talk to me about...

Choutas

Yes. Good idea. I remember nothing about Choutas this game. Let me take a look.

Well, that was uneventful. No wonder I don't remember anything.

9 posts and not really any game relevant content? He could be bad I suppose.

He doesn't seem inspired either way after a quick review.

I stand by that assessment; there was pretty much nothing there to use to make a determination.

Choutas remains in the middle tier, which seems to have inflated this time. Death to neutral reads.

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 8:09 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 7:14 pm In Ancient Greece, Choutas got off to a slow start. He didn't hesitate to make game-relevant comments though, and he was incisive.

Ancient Greece Choutas ISO

This time he has given much less in the way of reads, and doesn't seem oriented toward getting to a place where he can have reads.

Easter Choutas ISO

Yeah, combined with his comment about desiring more content, it's not exactly ideal. I could vote there.

He's more open to the lynch after the Ancient Greece comparison.

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 8:25 pm What makes Elo a less inspiring option than Choutas or someone else? Or do you not feel that way?

MP probably made the most vocal effort to lynch someone other than Choutas at EOD. That doesn't have to doom him, but I must acknowledge it.

After I supplied a case for a civilian Elohcin, MP moved his vote to Choutas. This was with one minute remaining in the phase.

~~~

MP has a couple of awkward moments here and he should discuss them. In interactive terms, he is a compatible teammate.

MP's Day 1 vote: Choutas

Regarding my EoD attitude, sure, I wasn't feeling personally inspired by the Choutas lynch. I appreciate those of you that were. I didn't really see anything of note. I'm not sure why my strategy late into EoD as a mafia teammate of Choutas would have been to publicly ask to lynch someone else, so I question why anyone thinks that's what I would do in that situation. I know it's WIFOMcity, but there it is. I was genuinely personally invested in lynching Elo.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 7:41 am

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 7:35 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 10:17 pm Choutas and Kylemii

Spoiler: show

Choutas didn't mention him.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 7:08 pm what is choutas like regularly

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 7:19 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 7:11 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 7:08 pm what is choutas like regularly

Kyle my boy, your questions are so vague sometimes.

ya know? like regular choutas? what's he do

Kyle wants to acquire knowledge.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 7:58 pm biggest thing to stick out at me about choutas is that he complained about there not being much happening in the game and proceeded to not do anything about it

Werd.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 8:15 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 7:14 pm In Ancient Greece, Choutas got off to a slow start. He didn't hesitate to make game-relevant comments though, and he was incisive.

Ancient Greece Choutas ISO

This time he has given much less in the way of reads, and doesn't seem oriented toward getting to a place where he can have reads.

Easter Choutas ISO

I agree with your assessment, I forgot choutas was so active in greece

Werd.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 8:52 pm

Choutas wrote: ↑Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:16 pm Hopefully I'll be able to post in some hours.
Work related problems arose and a million things to do today aside work.
Just try to cope with my absence and if it gets worse I'll politely ask to be replaced.

choutas had work shit early game greece as well, not the factor.

Kyle conceives of a reason to give Choutas a break and then takes it away again. Nice.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 9:02 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 8:46 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 8:43 pm

Choutas wrote: ↑Sun May 20, 2018 2:49 pm I still have a heavy day load so please bear with it another time guys.

if there's any documented reason for why choutas would be less active this game it's this

Who would you like to murder, Syndicate user Kylemii?

i think choutas seems like a pretty good option, I'm just nervous cus it seems a little too obvious. His scum hunting effort is clearly different between here and ancient Greece. In AG he was pointing things out, and making accusations even if he wasn't leading the posting race or anything.

Relative tiimidness. Sure.

~~~

I think Kyle looks great. Low-probability teammate.

Kyle's Day 1 vote: Choutas

I disagree; how are you reaching this conclusion? I don't think Kyle looks awful, but he seems like a candidate for bussing to me: didn't even discuss Choutas for the first time until close to EoD.

Many people fit that description including you. Kyle critically assessed the matter of a Choutas lynch on both sides in a way that looks authentic to me. I especially liked his investigation of possible factors external to the game which might explain Choutas’s slow start. That could have worked in defense of Choutas, but without a ton of delay Kyle reviewed the content in both this game and Ancient Greece before deciding against Choutas having any unique excuses.

Sure, that's true, I think technically anyone is possible teammate at this stage, but have to narrow it down somehow.

You make a good point regarding Kyle's assessment of external factors; I can understand your perspective. I suppose I come out of this feeling the opposite if anything, because I don't know about you, but when I'm bad I overanalyze the fuck about how to deal with my teammates throughout the game. That tends to realize itself in the form of statements of public consideration like Kyle's above. I know Kyle is different than I am, so I'm not putting much stock in it, but anyway, my gut doesn't think it's that authentic despite liking Kyle earlier in the game. It's difficult to articulate why exactly.

Unfortunately for Marmot, Choutas's treatment of Mac with that forced mention is probably the most damning evidence out there. I suppose it could have been a TMI statement with MacMarmot being town though. It just looks so strange as if Choutas felt compelled to say something about his teammate. I agree with that interpretation.

I'm torn on Scotty too. GTH that's a top bussing vote too. It is difficult to assess considering Choutas had barely any interactions with anyone and wasn't being seriously considered until the final minutes by almost anyone, so I guess what I said about Kyle could theoretically be true of almost anyone.

The players with the least likely bus votes off the top of my head are Jay and Quin, but even then, I know both of you better than to eliminate either of you from consideration for the rest of the game based on it. Especially you, Jay.

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 11:55 pm

wolbre04 wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 7:25 pm Here's My Reads list, I'll try to provide a small quip next to each one (just in the order i saw them)
Order of the Manboob
Wolbre04 - lord and savior
JJJ - t/t argument with MP7, me and Lilefer have a similar way of playing as t/t against each other


Knights of the Nipple

Kyle
Lapluie - compared to a previous civ game, u look good
Colin
Quin
Nova - fine except that JJJ vote
MP7 - Argument with Jay seems t/t
Marmot/Mac - got us info that makes laplui look pretty good
Quin


Charlie Black Man - baseball guy who isn't actually a black man
Choutas - his meta is low posting and not being around much
Dizzy - dont like your vote on JJJ
Scotty - always wants me dead
Choutas - Who is she

Sekiy
Elohcin
Floyd - Who is she

really exhausted tbh, ima get some sleep, cya guys later

Choutas is in this rainbow twice.

Choutas - his meta is low posting and not being around much
Choutas - Who is she

wolbre, what in the world does this mean? You wrote off that Choutas has the meta of low-posting, and asked who she was??

I don't know why, but this struck me as pretty funny.

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 12:02 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 9:45 pm First instinct is to ask whoever jumped Choutas wagon super late, why?

I hopped on Choutas because I saw nothing town-indicative from him, and my vote on lapluie wasn't doing much.

Eye me all you want. But I don't see why my vote would be suspicious. Choutas was likely lynched whether I switched or not.

This is actually a good point. Or maybe it's because I did the same thing and I know I'm not guilty. What's the motivation for a mafia member to switch once the wagon is clearly decided? What's the best move for a teammate to make in that situation; historically, what do players tend to do? Wish I knew.

Thanks for doing those analyses, Jay.

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 12:40 am MP was hesitant to vote either of the two of them yesterday, something I noticed from my recent read back of him.

I don't know about Dizzy wet Choutas, but I'll look into that tomorrow, and offer more detail on why I think thsee two. But for now I need bed. Catching an early flight tomorrow.

You're tunneling, my good man.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 6:38 am I'd say something like this:

Town:
Kylemii - Really like tone and interaction with choutas seems honest.
Lapluie - Like the tone, and I like to sheep Quin.
Quin - Probably town unless weird bussing.
Jimmeey - Probably town for a number of reasons.

More town than not:
Colin- Kind of purposfully exaggerated my read here to get something out of him. Haven't really made my mind up, but meh.
Wolbre - On the surface doesn't really look super good, but I definitely think they feel different from last game when they were scum.

In the POE:
Eloh - Little to go on. Throwaway vote.
Epig - Practically nothing. Where are you at? Talk about stuff.
Marmot - I will smell his urine to learn what he ate for breakfast.
MP - I actually really dislike the end of day. Seems really apathetic towards Choutas. Other players noted Choutas supposedly eager to get the game going but then doing nothing about it. MP did not take note of this, and he's a strong enough player to notice as town. The switch doesn't look good either.
Scotty - Pretty meh compared to last game when he was town. Not much to go on, but no actual suspicios stuff imo.
Nova - Not much here either. Still hold a small gut suspicion from early game.
Floyd - No show.

I'm mostly eyeing MP, Nova and Marmot. Epig also needs to do something.

I took note of it; I just didn't find it particularly compelling. I understand if that makes me look bad. If I were you I'd think the same thing.

Thinking more about wolbre's rainbow where he listed Choutas twice: Would a teammate do that?

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 7:56 amThis is actually a good point. Or maybe it's because I did the same thing and I know I'm not guilty. What's the motivation for a mafia member to switch once the wagon is clearly decided? What's the best move for a teammate to make in that situation; historically, what do players tend to do? Wish I knew.

I think for me I'd be compelled to jump on the wagon. But truthfully, I'd try to do it much smoother than a last minute vote after trying to get somebody else lynched. : p And I think that would go for anyone. I just don't get why you or Marmot moved at all, when Choutas was getting lynched anyway. I don't know if that is a culture thing or something. For me, I purposfully didn't vote Choutas cause there would be nothing more to gather from that.

I'm torn on Marmot because my gut still thinks he sounds genuine, but another thing I just thought of: Marmot said something to the effect of not understanding the suspicion on him. He also suspects me despite the fact that his EoD behavior is essentially the most comparable to my own. I tend to think I throw out statements like that more when I'm mafia than town, but again, that's a self-assessment off the top of my head so it could be completely inaccurate, and otherwise I'm certainly not comparable to everyone else. Is there any anecdotal evidence about this? Are players more likely to make a statement re: not understanding suspicion as town or mafia, or does it depend on the player?

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 8:06 am I'm torn on Marmot because my gut still thinks he sounds genuine, but another thing I just thought of: Marmot said something to the effect of not understanding the suspicion on him. He also suspects me despite the fact that his EoD behavior is essentially the most comparable to my own. I tend to think I throw out statements like that more when I'm mafia than town, but again, that's a self-assessment off the top of my head so it could be completely inaccurate, and otherwise I'm certainly not comparable to everyone else. Is there any anecdotal evidence about this? Are players more likely to make a statement re: not understanding suspicion as town or mafia, or does it depend on the player?

Probably depends. I think I do more "don't understand what you're even saying" when scum and more of "that's just shallow thinking" when town. Self-meta weeeee.

I'm interested in how Marmot suspects you and me, or if that has changed. Marmot, can you talk more about this?

Can we get Nut in here now? \o/

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 8:05 am

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 7:56 amThis is actually a good point. Or maybe it's because I did the same thing and I know I'm not guilty. What's the motivation for a mafia member to switch once the wagon is clearly decided? What's the best move for a teammate to make in that situation; historically, what do players tend to do? Wish I knew.

I think for me I'd be compelled to jump on the wagon. But truthfully, I'd try to do it much smoother than a last minute vote after trying to get somebody else lynched. : p And I think that would go for anyone. I just don't get why you or Marmot moved at all, when Choutas was getting lynched anyway. I don't know if that is a culture thing or something. For me, I purposfully didn't vote Choutas cause there would be nothing more to gather from that.

Yeah, speaking in the general, I would too. Historically I've defended, bussed, and spoken almost nothing or nothing of lynched mafia teammates in the past, but my inclination is always to bus them. If I do anything other than that, it's because I have to convince my gut that it's a better option. To me, bussing is less risky than defending, all else being equal, but you're right that it completely defends on the circumstances of the bus, because players sloppily bus each other all the time to no avail. It happens to anyone willing to take the risks of bussing eventually.

I can't speak for Marmot, but my switch was prompted by several considerations:

1) Jay revealing some key information regarding Elohcin's behavior, who was my preferred candidate for lynch, that apparently I did not absorb and recall. At that point, my vote felt parked on someone I wasn't even sure I could suspect anymore provided the new information.

2) Given 1), I voted Choutas not to make an impact on the outcome necessarily (because I figured it wouldn't unless there was absolute fuckery), but to make a visible statement regarding my support of the result. Once I didn't feel I had a horse in the race anymore in Elohcin, I became instantaneously more receptive to the argument for Choutas (specifically regarding his sentiment to shake things up and then failing to do so).

3) Lastly, a general feeling of paranoia regarding late EoD votes that are close. I love having multiple wagons that are close throughout most of the day; it encourages discussion and keeps everyone on their toes, mafia included (unless maybe they have no votes, but still). Once we get into the final hours of EoD though, my viewpoint switches, and I'd prefer a town consensus to close wagons to prevent any mafia manipulation. Again, in this case, this concern was pretty unrealistic, but it's hardwired.

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 7:51 am Unfortunately for Marmot, Choutas's treatment of Mac with that forced mention is probably the most damning evidence out there. I suppose it could have been a TMI statement with MacMarmot being town though. It just looks so strange as if Choutas felt compelled to say something about his teammate. I agree with that interpretation.

Guess we'll never really know since he's been lynched.

Scotty, Epig and Eloh are all like:

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 8:10 am

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 8:06 am I'm torn on Marmot because my gut still thinks he sounds genuine, but another thing I just thought of: Marmot said something to the effect of not understanding the suspicion on him. He also suspects me despite the fact that his EoD behavior is essentially the most comparable to my own. I tend to think I throw out statements like that more when I'm mafia than town, but again, that's a self-assessment off the top of my head so it could be completely inaccurate, and otherwise I'm certainly not comparable to everyone else. Is there any anecdotal evidence about this? Are players more likely to make a statement re: not understanding suspicion as town or mafia, or does it depend on the player?

Probably depends. I think I do more "don't understand what you're even saying" when scum and more of "that's just shallow thinking" when town. Self-meta weeeee.

I'm interested in how Marmot suspects you and me, or if that has changed. Marmot, can you talk more about this?

Yeah, I think so too, but figured it was worth discussion even if brief anyway. I would also be interested in an updated reads list from Marmot.

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 8:16 am

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 7:51 am Unfortunately for Marmot, Choutas's treatment of Mac with that forced mention is probably the most damning evidence out there. I suppose it could have been a TMI statement with MacMarmot being town though. It just looks so strange as if Choutas felt compelled to say something about his teammate. I agree with that interpretation.

Guess we'll never really know since he's been lynched.

Yeah, it's a minor point really, but since it's like the only point he made, it's hard to not consider it. Such an odd statement either way.

Considering Jay's interactive analyses, behavior before the lynch, my gut/tone reads, etc., I'll throw up a new rainbow momentarily, then I better go for the Night.

I'm taking in all of what you're saying, MP. Don't think I have an actual response though.

What happened with you and Jimmeeey mi day, btw? That quarrel/discussion thing seemed out of the blue to me and pops up in my head now and then.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 8:19 am I'm taking in all of what you're saying, MP. Don't think I have an actual response though.

What happened with you and Jimmeeey mi day, btw? That quarrel/discussion thing seemed out of the blue to me and pops up in my head now and then.

I appreciate it. I'm just thinking out loud as much as I can, and hopefully at least some of it is useful. We've hit an awesome result, but while we can continue to kick ass and I hope we do, it can unfortunately go awry from here, so I'm trying to consider all of the possibilities. I've seen town blow something like before by being too closed-minded.

I'm not sure I could articulate anything particularly illuminating other than what's already in the thread. I was distrusting of Jay. I still am, very slightly, but he's OK for now. He apparently thought something I said was nonsense and pushed me on it. I'm not sure what he thinks right now exactly.

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 8:06 am I'm torn on Marmot because my gut still thinks he sounds genuine, but another thing I just thought of: Marmot said something to the effect of not understanding the suspicion on him. He also suspects me despite the fact that his EoD behavior is essentially the most comparable to my own. I tend to think I throw out statements like that more when I'm mafia than town, but again, that's a self-assessment off the top of my head so it could be completely inaccurate, and otherwise I'm certainly not comparable to everyone else. Is there any anecdotal evidence about this? Are players more likely to make a statement re: not understanding suspicion as town or mafia, or does it depend on the player?

Our votes are almost identical, but they are different, and I suppose part of it is because I know why I proceeded the way I did.

I don't think Choutas had any votes when I left the thread. When I came back, he had 3 or 4 (can't remember) and I think was in the lead. That was like 30 minutes from EoD. I did a quick ISO, saw nothing great from him, so switched my vote.

And I suspected you before that anyway, so maybe I am just tunneling.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 8:10 am

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 8:06 am I'm torn on Marmot because my gut still thinks he sounds genuine, but another thing I just thought of: Marmot said something to the effect of not understanding the suspicion on him. He also suspects me despite the fact that his EoD behavior is essentially the most comparable to my own. I tend to think I throw out statements like that more when I'm mafia than town, but again, that's a self-assessment off the top of my head so it could be completely inaccurate, and otherwise I'm certainly not comparable to everyone else. Is there any anecdotal evidence about this? Are players more likely to make a statement re: not understanding suspicion as town or mafia, or does it depend on the player?

Probably depends. I think I do more "don't understand what you're even saying" when scum and more of "that's just shallow thinking" when town. Self-meta weeeee.

I'm interested in how Marmot suspects you and me, or if that has changed. Marmot, can you talk more about this?

Yeah you're both scum and should be lunched asap.

MP Rainbow #3 - Night 1

Strong town:
N/A

Moderate town:
Dyslexicon
JaggedJimmyJay
lapluie
Quin

Slight town:
ColinIsCool
Marmot
novaselinenever
wolbre04

No clue:
TheFloyd73

Slight mafia:
Charlienosis
Elohcin
Kylemii
Scotty

Somewhat mafia:
N/A

Strong mafia:
N/A

- I know the N/A areas are unnecessary, but I want to make it abundantly clear that at the moment I have no strong town reads and no moderate/strong mafia reads. That's problematic, but it is a function of the current situation.

- My gut and brain are torn on so many of these reads. My brain says Jay is strong town, my gut says he's slight town. Similar deal with Quin. Reverse it with Dizzy and lapluie; slight town from brain and strong town from gut. Colin, Marmot, and Kyle are all in a similar boat, but I feel like at least one of the three is bad, and GTH right now I think that player is Kyle. I could totally be off though, and this begs reassessment and further evaluation as to why exactly I feel that way. To try to elaborate why I feel that way now... Colin and Kyle are more liked by my brain but my gut is skeptical. Marmot is absolutely loved by my gut but my brain says he's possibly the worst looking player right now; the gut read is a bit stronger in the end. Why Kyle sticks out of the 3 is... hard to say, other than I thought his continued discussion of Choutas looked forced and inauthentic -- exactly the opposite of what Jay took out of the posts. Charlienosis, Elohcin, and Scotty are the biggest question marks in my mind right now and default to slight mafia; they need to come in and town it up ASAP if they are town.

I have a lot of work to do today; I'll probably not be around until D2.

Good job guys! As I was reading through what was going on, I would have changed to Chou if I were here EoD. But alas, I was hanging out with the family.

I will try to be more active. My heart's just not in it.

On my phone and it’s a pain so I won’t quote, but MP, when you speak of paranoia above, what kind of mafia manipulation are you talking about? Do you think it’s more likely a scum team will all pile together at last second to save one of their own (as they would have had to do to stop Choutas’s lynch) or that they’ll read the writing on the wall and do what they can to look like they wanted him dead? I think the second is much more likely, tbh.

My suspicion about MP stems from this.

Quoting Jay's ISO of MP for this.


In here, we see MP promoting the lynch of another player, Elohcin, as the day winded down and Choutas was in the lead.

We also see him questioning wolbre's vote for Choutas and calling it a throwaway vote. This was the only vote for Choutas at the time.

Then later on, MP dismissed Dizzy's vote for Jay as a throwaway vote, and took a lot of flak from Jay for it. Dizzy's vote put Jay at a strong lead in the lynch with 4 votes.



The inconsistencies are what I see suspicious here, especially between MP's question of wolbre's vote and uncaring of Dizzy's vote.

I'm also realizing this doesn't actually make Dizzy bad. I mean she could be, but I guess my main belief from the Jay/MP heated discussion yesterday is that MP was willing to accept Dizzy's vote without questioning it. But that doesn't mean they are teammates, he could have accepted it because the vote was on Jay, and Jay might have been lynched for it.

Anyway, my suspicion of MP still holds strong, but Dizzy not so much.

Since Choutas was never here at the EoD, I find it less likely that someone who pushed his wagon was bussing him, because he wasn't around to talk about it.



Wolbre's vote was so early on that I don't find it to be town-supporting evidence.

Quin, Kyle, and Jay all built the wagon into a lead. I don't believe any of them bussed Choutas.

MP and I voted last second. I know my alignment, and I've stated my thoughts on MP already.

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 8:38 am - My gut and brain are torn on so many of these reads. My brain says Jay is strong town, my gut says he's slight town. Similar deal with Quin. Reverse it with Dizzy and lapluie; slight town from brain and strong town from gut. Colin, Marmot, and Kyle are all in a similar boat, but I feel like at least one of the three is bad, and GTH right now I think that player is Kyle. I could totally be off though, and this begs reassessment and further evaluation as to why exactly I feel that way. To try to elaborate why I feel that way now... Colin and Kyle are more liked by my brain but my gut is skeptical. Marmot is absolutely loved by my gut but my brain says he's possibly the worst looking player right now; the gut read is a bit stronger in the end. Why Kyle sticks out of the 3 is... hard to say, other than I thought his continued discussion of Choutas looked forced and inauthentic -- exactly the opposite of what Jay took out of the posts. Charlienosis, Elohcin, and Scotty are the biggest question marks in my mind right now and default to slight mafia; they need to come in and town it up ASAP if they are town.

When you get a chance, can you explain what you mean in the colored sction? I don't know what sort of game-related situation that connects the three of us that would make at least one of the three of us is bad, and so I don't understand why you'd say such.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 8:45 am Good job guys! As I was reading through what was going on, I would have changed to Chou if I were here EoD. But alas, I was hanging out with the family.

I will try to be more active. My heart's just not in it.

Charlie Blackmon can keep your heart. I'll take a read or two instead.

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 7:55 am

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 11:55 pm

wolbre04 wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 7:25 pm Here's My Reads list, I'll try to provide a small quip next to each one (just in the order i saw them)
Order of the Manboob
Wolbre04 - lord and savior
JJJ - t/t argument with MP7, me and Lilefer have a similar way of playing as t/t against each other


Knights of the Nipple

Kyle
Lapluie - compared to a previous civ game, u look good
Colin
Quin
Nova - fine except that JJJ vote
MP7 - Argument with Jay seems t/t
Marmot/Mac - got us info that makes laplui look pretty good
Quin


Charlie Black Man - baseball guy who isn't actually a black man
Choutas - his meta is low posting and not being around much
Dizzy - dont like your vote on JJJ
Scotty - always wants me dead
Choutas - Who is she

Sekiy
Elohcin
Floyd - Who is she

really exhausted tbh, ima get some sleep, cya guys later

Choutas is in this rainbow twice.

Choutas - his meta is low posting and not being around much
Choutas - Who is she

wolbre, what in the world does this mean? You wrote off that Choutas has the meta of low-posting, and asked who she was??

I don't know why, but this struck me as pretty funny.

lol which part

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 8:02 am Thinking more about wolbre's rainbow where he listed Choutas twice: Would a teammate do that?

I have to ask - why? Quin also appears twice and it was just an error in copypasting names over. I don't understand how there could be any degree of correlation between Me listing croutons and queen twice ergo them being on a team with me when coitus flips rabbit

wolbre04 wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 8:59 am

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 8:02 am Thinking more about wolbre's rainbow where he listed Choutas twice: Would a teammate do that?

I have to ask - why? Quin also appears twice and it was just an error in copypasting names over. I don't understand how there could be any degree of correlation between Me listing croutons and queen twice ergo them being on a team with me when coitus flips rabbit

I legitimately want to know what could tie me to this? Many times it feels like people are grasping hard at straws and it feels like you're tinfoiling.

wolbre04 wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 8:59 am

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 8:02 am Thinking more about wolbre's rainbow where he listed Choutas twice: Would a teammate do that?

I have to ask - why? Quin also appears twice and it was just an error in copypasting names over. I don't understand how there could be any degree of correlation between Me listing croutons and queen twice ergo them being on a team with me when coitus flips rabbit

The thing about the Choutas one is that you listed two very different thoughts. In one you described his meta. In the other, you asked who she was. I just don't understand how you can thinking both of these things about the same person, because thinking one of them doesn't suggest you'd also be thinking the other one.

I also don't understand the Mariah Karie reference so

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 9:03 am

wolbre04 wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 8:59 am

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 8:02 am Thinking more about wolbre's rainbow where he listed Choutas twice: Would a teammate do that?

I have to ask - why? Quin also appears twice and it was just an error in copypasting names over. I don't understand how there could be any degree of correlation between Me listing croutons and queen twice ergo them being on a team with me when coitus flips rabbit

The thing about the Choutas one is that you listed two very different thoughts. In one you described his meta. In the other, you asked who she was. I just don't understand how you can thinking both of these things about the same person, because thinking one of them doesn't suggest you'd also be thinking the other one.

I also don't understand the Mariah Karie reference so

Okay I feel like I'm being trolled
1. His meta is low posting
2. He was posting nothing (which is less than low) this game -> "who is she" AKA WHERE THE FUCK ARE YOU

It's just weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeird.

Lizzy thinks so too.

Here you go Malamut

At least Dizzy got it, god bless her

This argument makes me want to stick a sewing needle in my eye

wolbre04 wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 9:10 am This argument makes me want to stick a sewing needle in my eye

Do you sew?

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 9:13 am

wolbre04 wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 9:10 am This argument makes me want to stick a sewing needle in my eye

Do you sew?

Once and awhile I'll make a handkerchief or something basic

I'd say something like this:

Town:
Kylemii - Really like tone and interaction with choutas seems honest.
Lapluie - Like the tone, and I like to sheep Quin.
Quin - Probably town unless weird bussing.
Jimmeey - Probably town for a number of reasons.

More town than not:
Colin- Kind of purposfully exaggerated my read here to get something out of him. Haven't really made my mind up, but meh.
Wolbre - On the surface doesn't really look super good, but I definitely think they feel different from last game when they were scum.

In the POE:
Eloh - Little to go on. Throwaway vote.
Epig - Practically nothing. Where are you at? Talk about stuff.
Marmot - I will smell his urine to learn what he ate for breakfast.
MP - I actually really dislike the end of day. Seems really apathetic towards Choutas. Other players noted Choutas supposedly eager to get the game going but then doing nothing about it. MP did not take note of this, and he's a strong enough player to notice as town. The switch doesn't look good either.
Scotty - Pretty meh compared to last game when he was town. Not much to go on, but no actual suspicios stuff imo.
Nova - Not much here either. Still hold a small gut suspicion from early game.
Floyd - No show.

I'm mostly eyeing MP, Nova and Marmot. Epig also needs to do something.

Hey, ease up there. I'm in a slump right now.

I don't blame you, your salary here at the Syndicate isn't great.

The manager gets pretty upset when we're on the Internet and not listening to him, but I'm in the bathroom right now to squeeze this in:

I believe wolbre04 is in the same lineup as Cooties. The reason I say this is when he had my name in blue, he said he was thinking about "Upickem," which reminded me of this one Iranian ball player Hassan Upickem, who many years ago killed a man and acted like the victim was still alive. Crazy guy actually got away with it. This feels like a similar ruse.