The Syndicate

Epignosis wrote:

Russtifinko wrote:

Epignosis wrote:"I do think it's suspicious that Epi deliberately misinterpreted this point. At least, it looked like he did to me. I mean, I get why - no one wants to be suspected on Day 1. But he wrote a pretty impactful-looking response that really didn't address the point against him."

That adverb.

How do you KNOW I deliberately did something? Maybe I didn't mean to...maybe I misunderstood. That, of all the things you supposedly read, you chose to comment on this?

And you can't deliberately misinterpret something. If you deliberately misinterpret something, we have another word for it: You're lying. There's no such thing as deliberately misinterpreting something. That's like saying, "He deliberately misjudged the trajectory of his car so he could run over a civilian."

Nah.

Voting Russtifinko.

Addendum: Roxy harps against voting people new to the site (that's my understanding of her ways).

Or maybe I'm deliberately misinterpreting something.

I don't know you deliberately misinterpreted it. But as I said in the next sentence, it looked that way to me.

If vertically challenged = short, deliberately misinterpreted = lying. So yeah, I think you lied. Rattled much?

My word! I've incurred the Wrath of Epi! Someone save me! Have mercy!

No. Syntax.

"I do think it's suspicious that Epi deliberately misinterpreted this point."

The predicate here indicates a posteriori knowledge that I was being deceptive. That you add a phrase that does more than qualify (it negates what you imply) looks even worse to me.

If you think I'm a liar, come out and call me a liar. Don't use weasel words and say you're gonna read me tomorrow.

It does qualify my statement, as opposed to negating. Regardless...

I read you today. I said I'd pursue you tomorrow. For someone so concerned with "weasel words", you don't seem to mind using them against me much.

Linki: I am at quarter-end in a finance job I started less than a month ago, so I'm very busy learning the ropes and doing quarter-end-ish things. In case I forgot to say before.

Double linki: Yes. Encouraged by some, viewed as risky by others.

eff me you guys - I'm so sorry I screwed this up. I thought the lynch was over at 8.

Still two pages behind.....Still don't know who I would have voted for.

RYMers and Syndicaters alike settled into their virtual conundrum with much confusion. It was as if they were speaking two different languages among them, and had to learn to work together if they were to make it out in tact. For a long while they exchanged heated debate of who was right, who was wrong.
"Where are we?" and "Who are you?" among many other questions that no one could answer. Amid all the confusion, it was only natural that they would end up lynching somebody who was quite literally speaking another language.




Day 1 has ended. birdwithteeth11 has been lynched. He was I Zimbra.

It is now Night 1. You have 23 hours to send in your PMs.

Ricochet wrote:

HamburgerBoy wrote:

Ricochet wrote:It's more a read than case, which is why it shows to you as "assorted facts".

I disagree that his RVS is that trivial, because of stuff I mentioned:

-- it was wildly unreasoned, by comparisong with most of the other RVS's
-- he later implied it achieved something and I have no idea what that is

The very first vote on aokiji/motel was, but at least on RYM that would be considered an obvious joke vote. In fact, it was your questioning of that vote that he used as saying it achieved something, that being to educate Syndicaters on the dark and mysterious voting rituals of day 1 RYM. It was basically his own type of "That's how I roll".

You didn't clarify the bolded part about his vote for BWT and why that means something to you.

Yes and when he implied that he achieved something by getting questioned for it, I asked him if that is the kind of desirable content that you'd expect to achieve. "I voted randomly and got suspected for it and that was in fact my goal". Erh?

The bolded part was, as you noticed, more a fact that I reviewed in my read. But to also answer what intepretation I'm giving it, I'm not fully sure; I don't even fully understand all the charges he brought up in that post, aside from BWT's vote being easy and potentially buddying up to JJJ.

If I were to split this chain of sussing, then:

lvl 1 - bea doesn't find that Day 1 brings anything consistent for properly suspecting players, so she uses to refrain from such activities in general | I don't agree with this per se and, as you can read in my read of her, whilst I acknowledge that this is usual meta for her, I'm wary how she pushed this stance in this game, ahead of any actual activity of any sort in this directin

lvl 2 - BWT disagrees with her stance (although also acknowledging her background) and votes her for that

lvl 3 - B24 suspects and votes BWT for what he see as an easy vote, plus other charges I already said I don't quite comprehend (the "direct attention in a very specific direction" or "combination of forced interaction as well as suspicion direction").

If there's something in this vote / exchange that partially adds to what makes me wary of B24, it's that I can't fully grasp what he's aiming for with his reads or input.

It was the conversation that was happening at the time and I was a) drinking and b) excited to actually engage in a realtime conversation. I wasn't trying to steer anything. I was adding my viewpoint - I will admit probably more agressively than I would have say...now...when I've not had beers - but no. I wasn't trying to thread lead in any way.

Strawhenge wrote:I'll do more later tonight.

Is discussion allowed at night?

I see no rule prohibiting it, so I'd assume so (it's normal to be allowed here).

Cool, thankee sai.

I'll smash out as much catch-up notes as I can while I'm at work tonight. Again, apologies for lurking.

I just noticed that Metalmarsh89 is from Oregon too? :o

RIP Teefies. I'm sorry you dieded. on the plus side, you can point and laugh at sockhost now while he stresses out and you enjoy your vaca!

bea wrote:RIP Teefies. I'm sorry you dieded. on the plus side, you can point and laugh at sockhost now while he stresses out and you enjoy your vaca!

Well right now I'm riding back from an amazing Mexican dinner with Daisy driving and MP being super tipsy from an enormous sangria. I recorded two drunk conversations of him already and he only knows of one! :P

[quote="Choutas"]Ignorant question: Is sig syndicate's sodr?
/quote]

Who is Sodr and how would I be like him?

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

bea wrote:RIP Teefies. I'm sorry you dieded. on the plus side, you can point and laugh at sockhost now while he stresses out and you enjoy your vaca!

Well right now I'm riding back from an amazing Mexican dinner with Daisy driving and MP being super tipsy from an enormous sangria. I recorded two drunk conversations of him already and he only knows of one! :P

We should discuss the transfer of said conversations.....

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

bea wrote:RIP Teefies. I'm sorry you dieded. on the plus side, you can point and laugh at sockhost now while he stresses out and you enjoy your vaca!

Well right now I'm riding back from an amazing Mexican dinner with Daisy driving and MP being super tipsy from an enormous sangria. I recorded two drunk conversations of him already and he only knows of one! :P

OMG I MUST SEE

Also RIP. :/

do the vote polls disappear at the start of Day 2? i.e. so if we want to remember them we need to copy\paste?

RIP bwt. I'm sorry to see you go, and feel bad about contributing to your lynch, but I stand by my vote in the fact that it did not appear civvie-like to say and do the things you were doing during dusk. You will be missed, though

Sorsha - Thank you for bringing attention to Rbz's post (the same exact post that pinged me, ironic) where he stated who he was. I shouldn't have missed that, however, since it was in OT green, it's entirely possible I skipped over it. Sometimes I read OT, sometimes I don't. Either way, thanks.

Roxy - I did not want to vote for you or Rbz because I was waiting for Rbz to clarify. Fortunately, Sorsha took the time to show me what was up, contrary to your actions, which was just to NoU me. As for bwt, if I am the only player that thinks his behavior was suspicious Dusk 0, then so be it. However, even after seeing the results of the lynch, I still find his behavior during Dusk suspicious, and believe my reason for voting him was valid.

Some have been pinged by me voting third for bwt. I've played about two dozen games of mafia, and I don't ever remember this being a thing. I haven't played for about two years, though, so maybe it's something new? Either way, all I can is circumstance. I had to go to work, I wanted to vote early in case I didn't make it home in time (I didn't, btw), and BWT was my strongest feeling at the time.

Straw - To me, it sounded off. "Kinda" and "very" don't go together IMO, in fact, I've never heard anyone utter "I had a kinda very good day" or "My meal was kinda very good", so I questioned him on it. It wasn't a strong ping, but it was there.

Again, RIP birds.

Who should be the first player lynched in a virtual reality mafia game?

Poll ended at Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:08:41 pm

bcornett24
0
No votes
bea
1
Ricochet (37)3%
birdwithteeth11
7
DrWilgy (12), bcornett24 (14), Matt F (23), HamburgerBoy (25), Sorsha (27), Diiny (28), sig (31)18%
Choutas
1
rundontwalk (7)3%
Devin the Omniscient
0
No votes
Diiny
3
thellama73 (6), Devin the Omniscient (19), Elohcin (24)8%
DrWilgy
1
Choutas (17)3%
Elohcin
0
No votes
Epignosis
2
FZ. (20), kneel4justice (22)5%
espers
0
No votes
FZ
0
No votes
Golden
0
No votes
HamburgerBoy
0
No votes
JaggedJimmyJay
0
No votes
kneel4justice
0
No votes
Long Con
1
Rbzmncaeaei (15)3%
MacDougall
1
seaside (13)3%
Matt F
2
Roxy (35), Russtifinko (36)5%
Metalmarsh89
0
No votes
motel room
0
No votes
Rbzmncaeaei
0
No votes
reywaS
2
MacDougall (29), Golden (33)5%
Ricochet
0
No votes
Roxy
0
No votes
rundontwalk
0
No votes
Russtifinko
4
Metalmarsh89 (18), AceofSpaces (30), espers (34), Epignosis (38)11%
sanmateo
0
No votes
seaside
1
Strawhenge (32)3%
sig
4
motel room (11), JaggedJimmyJay (16), Long Con (21), birdwithteeth11 (26)11%
Sorsha
0
No votes
Strawhenge
1
TheFloyd73 (3)3%
TheFloyd73
0
No votes
thellama73
0
No votes
TinyBubbles
0
No votes
MovingPictures07!!!! (hosts, non-players)
7
MovingPictures07 (1), Sloonei (2), acrosstheaether (4), saddy (5), S~V~S (8), juliets (9), nijuukyugou (10)18% 
Total votes : 38

Strawhenge wrote:Cool, thankee sai.

I'll smash out as much catch-up notes as I can while I'm at work tonight. Again, apologies for lurking.

I just noticed that Metalmarsh89 is from Oregon too? :o

Yes indeed! I live in Eugene.

I remember seeing that on your RYM profile but never pursued it.

Sorry to see you go, BWT. Now Rico will just run away with the contest.

Matt F wrote:Straw - To me, it sounded off. "Kinda" and "very" don't go together IMO, in fact, I've never heard anyone utter "I had a kinda very good day" or "My meal was kinda very good", so I questioned him on it. It wasn't a strong ping, but it was there.

But sig explained that. He had originally done "I had a very good day" but edited it after first typing it because he liked "I had a kinda good day" better. Only he mistakenly left it as "I had a kinda very good day". I don't really see any more reasonable and understandable explanation than that one, and I believe it is true.

That said, you getting a ping from him typing "kinda very" makes me wonder. Is it a phony ping? Maybe you could explain how this mistake made you suspicious that sig was a member of the baddie team, because I'm having a disconnect about it.

Golden wrote:Sig and BWT seem like stock standard day one suspicions for me. BWT in particular always seems to end up on the chopping block on day one. I haven't found the suspicion on either one convincing.

I got to page 16 thoroughly and really only had time to quickly skim the rest. I have no problem keeping my vote on rico, but I doubt anyone else would join me anyway, so I'm going to do something with the potential to be more meaninful.

I'm joining Mac on a vote for reywas. He has posted in other places (like the wrap up of recruitment) in the time he has not posted here. He may be intentionally playing utr.

I got really far behind....like 10+ pages behind. I'm going to try my best to catch up tomorrow.

Who should be the first player lynched in a virtual reality mafia game?

Poll ended at Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:08 pm


bcornett24
0
No votes
bea
1
Ricochet (37) 3%
birdwithteeth11
7
DrWilgy (12), bcornett24 (14), Matt F (23), HamburgerBoy (25), Sorsha (27), Diiny (28), sig (31) 18%
Choutas
1
rundontwalk (7) 3%
Devin the Omniscient
0
No votes
Diiny
3
thellama73 (6), Devin the Omniscient (19), Elohcin (24) 8%
DrWilgy
1
Choutas (17) 3%
Elohcin
0
No votes
Epignosis
2
FZ. (20), kneel4justice (22) 5%
espers
0
No votes
FZ.
0
No votes
Golden
0
No votes
HamburgerBoy
0
No votes
JaggedJimmyJay
0
No votes
kneel4justice
0
No votes
Long Con
1
Rbzmncaeaei (15) 3%
MacDougall
1
seaside (13) 3%
Matt F
2
Roxy (35), Russtifinko (36) 5%
Metalmarsh89
0
No votes
motel room
0
No votes
Rbzmncaeaei
0
No votes
reywaS
2
MacDougall (29), Golden (33) 5%
Ricochet
0
No votes
Roxy
0
No votes
rundontwalk
0
No votes
Russtifinko
4
Metalmarsh89 (18), AceofSpaces (30), espers (34), Epignosis (38) 11%
sanmateo
0
No votes
seaside
1
Strawhenge (32) 3%
sig
4
motel room (11), JaggedJimmyJay (16), Long Con (21), birdwithteeth11 (26) 11%
Sorsha
0
No votes
Strawhenge
1
TheFloyd73 (3) 3%
TheFloyd73
0
No votes
thellama73
0
No votes
TinyBubbles
0
No votes
MovingPictures07!!!! (hosts, non-players)
7
MovingPictures07 (1), Sloonei (2), acrosstheaether (4), saddy (5), S~V~S (8), juliets (9), nijuukyugou (10) 18%
Total votes : 38

motel room wrote:do the vote polls disappear at the start of Day 2? i.e. so if we want to remember them we need to copy\paste?

All polls are stored in this thread.

Sorry bwt RIP

reywaS wrote:

Golden wrote:Sig and BWT seem like stock standard day one suspicions for me. BWT in particular always seems to end up on the chopping block on day one. I haven't found the suspicion on either one convincing.

I got to page 16 thoroughly and really only had time to quickly skim the rest. I have no problem keeping my vote on rico, but I doubt anyone else would join me anyway, so I'm going to do something with the potential to be more meaninful.

I'm joining Mac on a vote for reywas. He has posted in other places (like the wrap up of recruitment) in the time he has not posted here. He may be intentionally playing utr.

I got really far behind....like 10+ pages behind. I'm going to try my best to catch up tomorrow.

I understand, I was there too. Catch up - if you are town, we need your skills.

Long Con wrote:Sorry to see you go, BWT. Now Rico will just run away with the contest.

Matt F wrote:Straw - To me, it sounded off. "Kinda" and "very" don't go together IMO, in fact, I've never heard anyone utter "I had a kinda very good day" or "My meal was kinda very good", so I questioned him on it. It wasn't a strong ping, but it was there.

But sig explained that. He had originally done "I had a very good day" but edited it after first typing it because he liked "I had a kinda good day" better. Only he mistakenly left it as "I had a kinda very good day". I don't really see any more reasonable and understandable explanation than that one, and I believe it is true.

That said, you getting a ping from him typing "kinda very" makes me wonder. Is it a phony ping? Maybe you could explain how this mistake made you suspicious that sig was a member of the baddie team, because I'm having a disconnect about it.

Per the underline...I agree with you completely, LC. If you'll notice, sig posted his comments. Then, I posted the question about "seems kinda very". And then, 7 minutes later, that is when sig gave his quite reasonable explanation. After that, do you know how many posts I made harping on that comment? Zero. I no longer felt it was a ping. In fact, the following 8 posts I made after sig gave his quite reasonable explanation, I was attempting to discuss the RYM Day 0 poll, trying to link our poll and their poll to see if there was any connection. At one point, I made a post with both the results MP gave us for TS poll and what MM gave us from RYM side by side, and asked if anyone wanted to discuss it. No one did.

Not a phony ping. It sounded weird. I asked him about it. He answered. I never uttered a word about it again until Straw asked me about it, and I answered.

Continuing on my epic exercise in futility...

Pages 6-9

And, lol, sorrynotsorry

Choutas Diiny JayedJaggyJim Long Con
Ricochet Strawhenge

straw, if you use quote tags inside the spoilers they become white-on-black and far more readable, just fyi.

looking through jay's history in an attempt at a read and i'm not really sure i'm seeing the same things i was before. going to have to reevaluate, maybe i'll sleep on it.

gotta love procrastination.

Strawhenge are you sure Choutas was booted before you played Mafia? I'm sure you have played games with him... Unless I'm getting old and senile.

Also are you high?

MacDougall wrote:Strawhenge are you sure Choutas was booted before you played Mafia? I'm sure you have played games with him... Unless I'm getting old and senile.

Also are you high?

I just looked back, and I completely forgot he was Much_Obliged. (But as 'Choutas,' yeah, he was gone by #58.)

Also, no, why, are my posts especially cockamamie?

espers wrote:straw, if you use quote tags inside the spoilers they become white-on-black and far more readable, just fyi.

I'm using the 'prosilver' theme on this board, and I've turned off signatures, and now everything is ultra-readable.

Strawhenge wrote:

MacDougall wrote:Strawhenge are you sure Choutas was booted before you played Mafia? I'm sure you have played games with him... Unless I'm getting old and senile.

Also are you high?

I just looked back, and I completely forgot he was Much_Obliged. (But as 'Choutas,' yeah, he was gone by #58.)

Also, no, why, are my posts especially cockamamie?

Haha cockamamie?

adjective (informal): ridiculous; implausible

Anyway, Mac, what are your thoughts? (I'm about halfway through catching up right now; I'm interspersing mafia-ing with actual work at my job)

Oh yeah I'm just like near on tripping from being so artificially awake (six coffee day). I want the world to collide with a meteorite. I need sleep.

sig wrote:

Choutas wrote:Ignorant question: Is sig syndicate's sodr?
/quote]

Who is Sodr and how would I be like him?

Sodr is phew how do I even explain...
Read this post and try to understand https://rateyourmusic.com/board_message ... msg4236879

Oh no, not bim beri birdi zimbra. RIP BWT. Mislynched on D1 for fixating on players' tone/wording and seeming to make easy votes. Same as he ever was.

Also, this is the least crappy version I was able to record this morning:

http://vocaroo.com/i/s04db6bt72PI

Choutas wrote:

sig wrote:

Choutas wrote:Ignorant question: Is sig syndicate's sodr?
/quote]

Who is Sodr and how would I be like him?

Sodr is phew how do I even explain...
Read this post and try to understand https://rateyourmusic.com/board_message ... msg4236879

Damn you now I have to read that entire game for old time's sake.

Hahaha how fun is this game.

Ricochet wrote:Oh no, not bim beri birdi zimbra. RIP BWT. Mislynched on D1 for fixating on players' tone/wording and seeming to make easy votes. Same as he ever was.

Also, this is the least crappy version I was able to record this morning:

http://vocaroo.com/i/s04db6bt72PI

What beautiful music to start the day off with thanks Ricochet.

Sucky result somehow I am not surprised.

Matt F wrote:Some have been pinged by me voting third for bwt. I've played about two dozen games of mafia, and I don't ever remember this being a thing. I haven't played for about two years, though, so maybe it's something new? Either way, all I can is circumstance. I had to go to work, I wanted to vote early in case I didn't make it home in time (I didn't, btw), and BWT was my strongest feeling at the time.

Again, RIP birds.

Matt, for me it wasn't that you voted third for BWT per se. The main thing that got me was that you voted him without ever having mentioned him before, and for a weak reason. (He changed his D0 vote before other people had voted.)

The thing that pinged me about the timing of your vote is secondary to the point above. That looked bad to me because a third vote at the time put BWT above Diiny and tied him with sig for top vote-getter, and then he took 3 of the next 5 votes. So your vote was a big deal at the time, and it appears to have sparked off a run of BWT votes.

Roxy wrote:

Ricochet wrote:Oh no, not bim beri birdi zimbra. RIP BWT. Mislynched on D1 for fixating on players' tone/wording and seeming to make easy votes. Same as he ever was.

Also, this is the least crappy version I was able to record this morning:

http://vocaroo.com/i/s04db6bt72PI

What beautiful music to start the day off with thanks Ricochet.

Sucky result somehow I am not surprised.

what rox said. That was beautiful rico! Thank you for sharing it!!

bea wrote:eff me you guys - I'm so sorry I screwed this up. I thought the lynch was over at 8.

Still two pages behind.....Still don't know who I would have voted for.

Some of you people just about missed it.

MacDougall wrote:Oh my God Sloonei role playing as Zapp Branigan. Be still my beating heart.

Seriously the best mafia roleplaying I've ever seen.

I'm back (overslept, just a reason, not an excuse), catching up right now. RIP bwt, with seven votes I'm willing to bet that at least two of them are baddies.

Those who missed the vote.

• bea
  reywaS
  sanmateo

Why'd you go and do that?

Okay for now I'm just going to address everything that was directed at myself and every vote for bwt.

Roxy wrote: Why not sign up for the game as Keterman? Ya know with your syndicate Keterman account?

Well I've long forgotten the password for that one, but even if I hadn't I wanted to go into this game with my identity concealed to see if I could use that to my advantage to see if anyone tried to take advantage of a "newbie" on the scene. Needless to say, I don't think anything came of it. Also this game is sort of a first-time worlds-collide scenario, and since I would say I have an equal association with RYM and The Syndicate, I thought it would be fun to come in without associating with either. Late apologies to missing the majority of your Monty Python game, my life was even more of a clusterfuck back then that it is now, and if it helps I probably would've butchered that role anyway. You may also notice when I was listing all the names that bea could choose from, there was "Leech", which you can find if you go back to the oldest page in the members guide here. In other words, this is actually my third account here.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Rbzmncaeaei wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote: I accidentally implied I was civilian.

But you're not, right?

How can you accidentally imply you are civilian? Isn't that like the most basic claim used in mafia history, at the beginning and throughout the games?

Here, lemme make you imply some more: Are you bad?

To me it's so obvious that mm was joking that it seems opportunistic to call him out for this, but if it's a community thing, feel free to shoot me down.

I don't like to make statements like "I'm civvie, don't lynch me". Everyone wants to look civvie, so saying so is useless.

I got flak in my first game on RYM for being the only one not to character claim.

I agree 100%. I think alignment and character claiming almost always manages to get the community chasing its own tail looking for baddies while they sit back with popcorn and laugh.

Long Con wrote:

Rbzmncaeaei wrote:I'm sincerely sorry for offending you, my tendency to start drama unintentionally is another one of the reasons I've continued to avoid mafia and online communities in general, starting over with a new name after new name again and again.

You don't have to worry about drama with Long Con. If I say you offended me, it is merely in game-context, and it doesn't mean I'm really upset. I can get incredibly frustrated with a player in-game - Epignosis and Cobalt come to mind - but when I think about either of those dudes I just smile and shake my head and say "I love that guy!" There's times I would have strangled Epi, but I'm also honoured that he asked me to co-host his upcoming Arkham game. So don't stress about me, I still hope to have a long Mafia friendship with you and all the RYM folks.

Long Con wrote:Your description of your current situation sounded very responsibility-free. I guess it could have sounded slightly more responsibility-free if you had said you were going backpacking for six months in Australia, but you can see why I would assume such a thing. Of course, no offense at all was intended. And the revelation that you are The Phuncky Feel One from Piano is awesome - good to see you again!

This is a huge relief. No offense taken, cheers to you.

Ricochet wrote:

Rbzmncaeaei wrote:

Ricochet wrote:Oh no, FZ is in Serious Business mode. I don't know why you treat me so bad. Think of all the things we could have had.

I am not bothered with how I appear in this game, either. Not one bit. I made a statement to the other players, back in the private Syndicate thread, but it's now vanished. It's not my fault you joined the RYM camp and now you seem to be lashing at me for not seeming as consistent as you'd expect like me to be, just because you have such meta on me from previous games.

Anyway, what I said over there can summed like this: I'm immersing in the theme. Incidentally, the Host happened to also issue a contest that totally justifies my plan to have fun and be zany. TH is fun and zany music, so I plan to have fun and be zany. This will not affect my regular gameplay, only add a dimension to it. As for my regular gameplay, I repeat that you may pretend too much from me, 10 hours into Day 1. You're saying I'm talking a lot, without saying anything, but you're accusing me without bringing too much just as well. If you're clinging on the my post on b24, I literally pointed out that I actually questioned him. If my replies haven't satisfied you, it's you shutting the door, not me.

Don't like fun? Lo siento. Take it easy, take it easy.

My "too nervous for a town" alarm went off with this post.

No need to worry. Evr'ything's under control. I wasn't nervous at any point in this game, but ok, I get what you're saying. Thing is, I'm actually more town when I address what players think, say or even suss me for head on. I never leave remarks on me just fly by.

I'm on the fence with my read on you at this point, and I'm on the fence about this response as well. Everything's under control? I'm not sure if that's a response that I should worry about or not.

More on the way, I realize when I make one big post it's more of a hassle for people to read then if I were to split it up ala JJJ.