Tree Mafia [GAME OVER]

[MacDougall]

You are my civ reads please just read Motel Room Jimbob.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You are my civ reads please just read Motel Room Jimbob.

I will. First I'm going to address Epi's case on me and ideally prevent this lot from making me dead.

[MacDougall]

You are my civ reads please just read Motel Room Jimbob.

I will. First I'm going to address Epi's case on me and ideally prevent this lot from making me dead.

Nobody is going to lynch you if people realise Motel Room is bad.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

And I didn't look back at anybody's reasoning for voting Enrique until this afternoon, when I continued my participation (i.e., after work). That you accused me of something moments before is coincidence. And, really, you didn't accuse me of anything I wouldn't freely admit:

Epignosis's crusade against Floyd is based upon what strikes me as close to nothing, so I view it dubiously. Regardless of Floyd's alignment, I don't understand Epi's conduct as a town approach -- he is shouting his desired target and apparently doesn't care much at all about anything else happening in the game. That's not inspiring, and even if he is right about Floyd it would strike me as luck at best and calculated at worst. Epi doesn't strike me as the guy that plays for a lucky break.

I don't know how one can have any conviction in reading Floyd as town or mafia right now. There's not enough there.

I'm crusading against Floyd based upon close to nothing? Check.
You don't understand my conduct as a "town approach?" Join the ever-growing club who have said that about me many times and been wrong (FZ. is the newest inducted member there).
Shouting my desired target? Yep.

If you're willing to grant the first as a check, then you should be willing to grant that someone's suspicions based on that point are understandable. Crusading against someone based on close to nothing is not an inherent town appearance. That doesn't mean it has to be mafia-motivated, but the suspicion is reasonable.

If you're willing to add me to the Wrong Club, then you're willing to associate my mindset with a town mindset.

Not being inspiring? It's not my job to be inspiring- it's my job to lynch Mafia.

Lynching mafia is only half of your job if you're town. Preventing your own lynch is also necessary, and that means you need to convey a town mindset. You failed in that responsibility in my eyes until the most recent content in your post history and I don't regret reading you bad for it.

So go ahead and make a big scene about how you came at me first and therefore my suspicion of you is contrived. I don't care. People can scream NO U or OMGUS at me, and anyone who has played with me knows I don't give a damn about that.

I understand this. I wouldn't care about it either. I just made a pretty similar defense in the face of a Zebra accusation. This sentence is the first decent glimmer of town I've seen from you.

To others:

I don't think 3J was being genuine with his vote on Enrique. 3J's vote was out of the way at the time. When the biggest discussions were Diiny and FZ., 3J casts the first vote for Enrique based on flimsy reasoning.

The biggest discussions being Diiny and FZ are irrelevant. I don't vote for the "biggest discussions". I vote for my biggest suspect. It was Enrique. I've already explained my reasoning, I don't think it was flimsy, and apparently it was popular.

Therefore, I don't think 3J was expecting Enrique to get lynched.

You're not entirely wrong. I didn't know that my vote would be enough to motivate an exodus from Diiny, but I did think it was plausible enough to warrant its placement. If I'd still been around at EOD, I think I'd have been pleased to see the votes pile on Enrique.

I think he played it safe and then tried to set up Enrique by preemptively commenting on a Dinny lynch, which looked like the most likely scenario at the time:

Moreover, Enrique has been entertaining the notion that Doc and Diiny are both Mafia, which makes me wonder what he thinks Diiny's lynch would reveal about Doc that he hasn't already implied. If Diiny flips town, his suspicion of Doc can persist for obvious reasons (he lied about a red peek and pushed hard for an errant lynch). If Diiny flips mafia, then his suspicion of Doc can still persist based on his own exploration of the bussing possibility.

So I'm not sure this post aligns nicely with Enrique's own stated mindset.

You don't know what mafia JJJ looks like. I admire your effort to try, but "preemptive setup" is shit play and I don't do it. If I want to setup Enrique, then I can make those accusations after Diiny is lynched and evade this very simple accusation without a worry. Instead I stated my suspicion, my real suspicion, because as a townie I don't give a flying fuck whether it looks like a ""preemptive setup". I develop a read in my brain, and then I put it in the thread. No filter -- something I think you understand even if you don't like my reasons for this specific vote.

To those who know 3J better than I do, would a civilian 3J make this kind of "damned if Diiny flips good / damned if Diiny flips bad" against someone Day 1?

How about one of you RYMers answer the bloody question. It's quite specific I know, but it's out there and I think my suspicion of Enrique was entirely within the boundaries of what a town JJJ would do in any game.

[a2thezebra]

To put it the most simply, Zebra: you seem to agree that if Epi is town, his initial approach to this game was a poor one.

I think Epi is a very capable townie and anything less than that is a valid reason to suspect him. I illustrated various examples of his play being beneath his standard, and that's frankly not very different from what he has insinuated about me at least once in this game. Neither of us seems to think the other is up to spec, and we're both casting suspicion for it.

I agree that he is a very capable townie, but also a very capable scummie. I don't think he would be playing the way he is as a bad guy, it's just too distinctive and noticeable. I was bad with him way back in Misfits and he was very careful, he didn't like me confronting him in-thread or being open about my reads in-thread.

[a2thezebra]

After that defense, how do you feel about Epi's alignment overall JJJ?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

After that defense, how do you feel about Epi's alignment overall JJJ?

I'm not finished.

[a2thezebra]

After that defense, how do you feel about Epi's alignment overall JJJ?

I'm not finished.

mmmmmk

[MacDougall]

How about one of you RYMers answer the bloody question. It's quite specific I know, but it's out there and I think my suspicion of Enrique was entirely within the boundaries of what a town JJJ would do in any game.

I would have thought me placing you at the top of my reads list was enough of an indicator.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

That's not inspiring, and even if he is right about Floyd it would strike me as luck at best and calculated at worst. Epi doesn't strike me as the guy that plays for a lucky break.

Translation: Even if I'm right about Floyd, I don't deserve to be taken seriously because I either got lucky or I'm throwing him under the bus.

The reason I find this part of his post astounding is that 3J calls people out when he gets the impression someone is attacking his credibility rather than this argument. Yet here, 3J takes a shot at my credibility. He did the same thing with Enrique (see above).

That is not a shot at your credibility. It is definitively a shot at your sincerity. If I don't believe you can possibly have the thread content necessary to have a strong read on Floyd and you still espouse a strong read on Floyd, then I bring your read in question.

I have never witnessed a civilian 3J (or many civilians, for that many), take such measured steps to assault someone's credibility BEFORE a flip, yet scream that it's bad behavior to impugn his own AFTER a flip.

According to 3J:

If Diiny is good, then Enrique can go after Wilgy. If Diiny is bad, then Enrique can go after Wilgy.

If Floyd is bad, then Epi is either lucky or a calculating teammate.

Neither of these items actually say anything, because they say everything. 3J swept the gamut of possibilities here, meanwhile giving himself an excuse to keep voting us.

It's manufactured. It's bullshit. And it's not a civilian 3J.

I didn't attack Enrique's credibility either. I really don't see how you're coming to that conclusion. To attack someone's credibility is to suggest they don't have the qualification necessary to justify something they say (like you attacking me because of my vote in the cop lynch in response to something irrelevant to the cop lynch). I did not do that with either you or Enrique. I suggested both of you were suspicious for somewhat similar reasons.

I felt Enrique's willingness to "avoid risk" in a DrWilgy lynch was awkward language that did not align with his own stance that Doc and Diiny might be team mates. I think that's a fair accusation, and it's one that some people seemed to agree with at the time. I was wrong, but that's Mafia.

I felt your treatment of Floyd was incongruent with the content he'd produced. To have either a strong desire to defend Floyd or a strong desire to lynch Floyd based on his Day 1 made no sense to me, so naturally I had to question why you were standing for the latter. It's why I even implied some part of me was viewing the two of you as mafia team mates.

[MacDougall]

Yeah sick get to the part where motel room is bad.

[a2thezebra]

Yeah sick get to the part where motel room is bad.

I'm interested in JJJ's thoughts on that as well.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

After that defense, how do you feel about Epi's alignment overall JJJ?

I'm not finished.

mmmmmk

Overall, I am given some pause. I think his stated suspicions of me are understandable, primarily the notion that I'm two-waying reads to preemptively set people up. It's false, but I can understand how someone could read my shit and have that impression -- particularly someone who's not played with me in a game where I'm a bad guy (other than The Syndicate Mafia where I had like 80 posts in 6 days in another person's skin).

I can't help but cock an eyebrow when his move against me came immediately after my move against him. That's a big coincidence. He received this accusation gracefully (by not giving a shit as a town Epi shouldn't), so I'll mull it over.

[MacDougall]

The more time you spend on this pointless crap that only you three actually care about the further down my reads list you're tumbling. You are more worried about defending yourself than helping me lynch a scum.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Yeah sick get to the part where motel room is bad.

Okay. Did you build a case for me to at? If not I'll just get into the trenches myself.

[MacDougall]

Yeah sick get to the part where motel room is bad.

Okay. Did you build a case for me to at? If not I'll just get into the trenches myself.

Really...

[MacDougall]

I dispute that his opinions are genuine. Always saying the most obvious thing in an alien tone.

My opinions are genuine and my tone is i dunno my tone. I'm probably never going to trust you as much as I did in the Talking Heads game but if you're town your guts off this time.

Room's posts are grey and they smell like ashes.

fucking what

If I am town, I am off my guts? What? You know that all my reads were wrong?

You're never going to trust me as much as you did in the game that was a bad guy? Are you just trying to say that I fooled you too good for you to town read me? Surely if I play differently to that game then you'll town read me right? Or are you just justifying turning your light OMGUS into full blown OMGUS later?

Your opinions are genuine I'm sure. When you say things like this...

It can be genuine if you are bad.

Spoiler: show

This is definitely not the same Wilgy from Talking Heads.

u first tiger

right, i'm suss of you because of your little hop away from your Diiny vote to voting Wilgy after his cop claim, to getting back on Diiny. Reads like you didn't know where to sit and now have a theory involving them both being scum.

I want to hear YOUR opinion on Diiny.

For the record, I've always been perfectly okay with a Diiny lynch. Wilgy did look more dangerous for a bit, but really, as long as we get a bad guy today there's no rush. Lynching DrWilgy is taking too big a risk atm when we know so little about what he's trying to do.

I think Diiny is scum. I think DrWilgy most likely is but until Diiny is gone, we don't want to lynch him.

edgy as it may be I'm not as certain Diiny is scum

Why are you suspicious of me like you said?

We're not even 24 hours into Day 1. I don;t think a Diiny lynch was a "given" at a few hours into the game (before Wilgy's claim).

Wilgy, have you played an infodumping-allowed game before?

This can be genuine if you are bad.

When it comes to balls on the line scum reads. You've given us this...

u first tiger

right, i'm suss of you because of your little hop away from your Diiny vote to voting Wilgy after his cop claim, to getting back on Diiny. Reads like you didn't know where to sit and now have a theory involving them both being scum.

Any other thoughts, motel room?

I will say that I agree with you that I think it's unlikely that there was a successful scum peek. I will also say that I'm considering voting for you today.

Anything else? On, you know, anything that's being discussed.

you don't want to know why I'd be suspicious of you?

Your suspicion of enrique is strange because according to you, the only reason you had a scum read on him for having two scum reads and having trouble deciding which to vote for? How exactly is that scummy, like at all? I mean especially in hindsight, but your reason is the most obviously forced reasoning I can remember seeing in ages and would still be so if he flipped scum. If he flipped scum I'd expect you'd be bussing him. But speaking of bussing, or at the very least distancing your interactions with DFaraday are a little bit curious...

The conversation really hit the ground running in this game. And here I thought tree Mafia would be more easygoing.

lets hope it gets a bit more breezy there fella.

Yeah cool we're all having fun here. I mean, both of you look to me like bad guys trying to blend in with the fluff posts but that's not much...

But where's your vote today? Oh it's on Mr 3 posts. Yeah I scum read him, but ... at least I made a point of why, and tried to question him relevant to his content. What's the point of asking him who he would have voted for yesterday? Your vote looks a hell of a lot like a scum putting a vote on a lurky teammate who is coming under no scrutiny. Is it going to stay there? Probably not now. But I reckon it would have had a good chance of staying there...

Speaking of questions Motel Room. About half of your posts are really pointed questions. Have you actually made any determinations with your questions. I haven't seen much follow up to the answers you received. Where's the goldmine of knowledge that has come about from your scathing questions? Are you sure you aren't just asking questions to feign contribution?

I gotta say, it all pales in comparison to what I just pointed out about Motel Room though. Specifically.

1. He has only blasted out one accusation and the reason for it didn't make any sense.
2. He has asked a lot of questions that he has done nothing with at all.
3. His vote is on a scummy looking lurker right now after having a fluffy interaction with the guy on day 1. An alignment of either a) distancing or b) putting his vote on an easy out.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The more time you spend on this pointless crap that only you three actually care about the further down my reads list you're tumbling. You are more worried about defending yourself than helping me lynch a scum.

I'm worried about both. Townies have two responsibilities. Gripe about self-defense when you have votes on your face.

I'm working on it, calm down.

[MacDougall]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I dispute that his opinions are genuine. Always saying the most obvious thing in an alien tone.

My opinions are genuine and my tone is i dunno my tone. I'm probably never going to trust you as much as I did in the Talking Heads game but if you're town your guts off this time.

Room's posts are grey and they smell like ashes.

fucking what

If I am town, I am off my guts? What? You know that all my reads were wrong?

He did not say that all your reads were wrong. He said you're wrong about him. Add an apostrophe to "guts" in his post and remove the plurality IMO.

You're never going to trust me as much as you did in the game that was a bad guy? Are you just trying to say that I fooled you too good for you to town read me? Surely if I play differently to that game then you'll town read me right? Or are you just justifying turning your light OMGUS into full blown OMGUS later?

His wording on this point is a bit awkward. I can understand him feeling the lingering effects of being so wrong about you in the Talking Heads game, I feel the same to some degree. I'm not sure why he said it here though.

Your opinions are genuine I'm sure. When you say things like this...

It can be genuine if you are bad.

Spoiler: show

This is definitely not the same Wilgy from Talking Heads.

u first tiger

right, i'm suss of you because of your little hop away from your Diiny vote to voting Wilgy after his cop claim, to getting back on Diiny. Reads like you didn't know where to sit and now have a theory involving them both being scum.

I want to hear YOUR opinion on Diiny.

For the record, I've always been perfectly okay with a Diiny lynch. Wilgy did look more dangerous for a bit, but really, as long as we get a bad guy today there's no rush. Lynching DrWilgy is taking too big a risk atm when we know so little about what he's trying to do.

I think Diiny is scum. I think DrWilgy most likely is but until Diiny is gone, we don't want to lynch him.

edgy as it may be I'm not as certain Diiny is scum

Why are you suspicious of me like you said?

We're not even 24 hours into Day 1. I don;t think a Diiny lynch was a "given" at a few hours into the game (before Wilgy's claim).

Wilgy, have you played an infodumping-allowed game before?

This can be genuine if you are bad.

I agree that those can be genuine posts even if motel room is bad. I'm not sure they indicate that he is bad, but they're bad-compatible.

When it comes to balls on the line scum reads. You've given us this...

u first tiger

right, i'm suss of you because of your little hop away from your Diiny vote to voting Wilgy after his cop claim, to getting back on Diiny. Reads like you didn't know where to sit and now have a theory involving them both being scum.

Any other thoughts, motel room?

I will say that I agree with you that I think it's unlikely that there was a successful scum peek. I will also say that I'm considering voting for you today.

Anything else? On, you know, anything that's being discussed.

you don't want to know why I'd be suspicious of you?

Your suspicion of enrique is strange because according to you, the only reason you had a scum read on him for having two scum reads and having trouble deciding which to vote for? How exactly is that scummy, like at all? I mean especially in hindsight, but your reason is the most obviously forced reasoning I can remember seeing in ages and would still be so if he flipped scum.

I didn't follow this at first, but I looked back at motel room's stuff and found what you're talking about.

u first tiger

right, i'm suss of you because of your little hop away from your Diiny vote to voting Wilgy after his cop claim, to getting back on Diiny. Reads like you didn't know where to sit and now have a theory involving them both being scum.

I agree that this post is less than good. I did think Enrique's treatment of Doc and Diiny relative to one another was dubious, but motel room only seems concerned with the voting pattern here. I don't think switching votes between two people who've been vocalized as suspects is an inherently suspicious thing. I think we're most eye-to-eye on this point, Mac.

If he flipped scum I'd expect you'd be bussing him. But speaking of bussing, or at the very least distancing your interactions with DFaraday are a little bit curious...

The conversation really hit the ground running in this game. And here I thought tree Mafia would be more easygoing.

lets hope it gets a bit more breezy there fella.

Yeah cool we're all having fun here. I mean, both of you look to me like bad guys trying to blend in with the fluff posts but that's not much...

But where's your vote today? Oh it's on Mr 3 posts. Yeah I scum read him, but ... at least I made a point of why, and tried to question him relevant to his content. What's the point of asking him who he would have voted for yesterday? Your vote looks a hell of a lot like a scum putting a vote on a lurky teammate who is coming under no scrutiny. Is it going to stay there? Probably not now. But I reckon it would have had a good chance of staying there...

I think you've sort of led your case too far here by making assumptions about what motel would have done with his vote without your case being present. My initial reception of his DF vote was that it was meant to prod the game's biggest lurker into doing something. It could also be the typical throwaway vote on the easy target. Shrug.

Speaking of questions Motel Room. About half of your posts are really pointed questions. Have you actually made any determinations with your questions. I haven't seen much follow up to the answers you received. Where's the goldmine of knowledge that has come about from your scathing questions? Are you sure you aren't just asking questions to feign contribution?

Fair. I will never attack someone for asking a lot of questions, but it would be ideal to see where those questions have taken motel's mindset.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You guys better not let me get anywhere near that post count lead.

[a2thezebra]

You're not at 122 yet.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

For those who don't know, it should be stated that in my experience playing with DFaraday (still limited), lurking is not abnormal. Perhaps this much lurking isn't ordinary, but I wouldn't ever peg him as a high post count type.

Alright, I've more or less caught up. Wilgy is looking pretty bad to me, as I can't see a good civ reason for his behavior. Epi is coming across as civ, and I think his JJJ case is sounding plausible, but tomorrow I'll read over JJJ to get a better handle on it.

It's very important that you come through on this post. You've taken a couple definitive stances (suspicious of DrWilgy and not suspicious of Epi) so that's neat. I would like to hear what brings you to these perspectives though, and what you feel about me when you've had your chance to review. Please make the best effort you can to leave some posts in this thread. It might not be your style to talk a lot and I respect that, I only ask that you give the rest of us a fair opportunity to get a read on you. We need something to work with.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Gonna grab some dinner and then try to get a few ISOs in for whatever players I place priority on. As always, I'm open to requests -- I can't do everyone though. I just don't have the energy, I'm sorry. Maybe someone else can fill in the blanks.

Or I'll probably end up doing it anyway because I am ridiculous and have no self-control.

[Tangrowth]

I'm here! Who else is around?

I'll finally start commenting on things as I catch up now.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Gonna grab some dinner and then try to get a few ISOs in for whatever players I place priority on. As always, I'm open to requests -- I can't do everyone though. I just don't have the energy, I'm sorry. Maybe someone else can fill in the blanks.

Or I'll probably end up doing it anyway because I am ridiculous and have no self-control.

Gonna set motel room as a priority, so I can get a fresh personal look instead of just one relative to Mac's case.

[a2thezebra]

I'm here! Who else is around?

I'll finally start commenting on things as I catch up now.

I am around.

[Tangrowth]

DrWilgy
JaggedJimmyJay
a2thezebra
MovingPictures07
Enrique
Sorsha
TheFloyd73
FZ.
Epignosis
DFaraday
Diiny
motel room

Enrique on Mac's tally 30 mins before deadline. Gonna look hard at his PH to see whether the swap is justified and would suggest you guys do the same. I wish there was a way to see what the tallies were like at the time of each post

It is notable how far down Enrique went for Mac, but those last 30 minutes made a difference... being there myself, I don't think it's a stretch that Mac genuinely changed his mind about Enrique, because that happened to me to a degree as well.

I'm reading Mac as town, but he played an insanely good town-seeming mafia game in Talking Heads, so I'm hesitant to stand firm on it.

[Tangrowth]

Jay, can you ISO me? I don't have a ridiculous amount of content, and although I obviously won't vote for myself, I'm particularly interested in your mindset regarding my behavior.

[Tangrowth]

I'm here! Who else is around?

I'll finally start commenting on things as I catch up now.

I am around.

Yay!

What are your thoughts? Rainbow list? Suspects? I'll inevitably see stuff as I catch up too, I imagine, but I wanted to talk with people in real time.

[Tangrowth]

MP's vote is an interesting one, he hardly talks about enrique and has nothing particularly damning about him in the entire day phase let alone EOD but then jumps on the wagon after agreeing with one mac post.

I feel better when I see that he's also considering other options at that time, though, particularly his lil' flip flop on me towards felt organic enough, and I do think enrique was acting sus enough at eod to attract the vote of an undecided player. Still, I don't like that it's just a single reply to a mac post that gets MP on the wagon.

I was willing to see Enrique get lynched over Diiny, and FZ./zebra didn't have much traction, so I stand by my assessment at EoD. It's unfortunate that Enrique was the cop, but I felt his behavior was unwarranted, and when I actually sat and thought about the way he was completely unwilling to see any town mindset for Wilgy it felt more and more opportunistic to me.

[a2thezebra]

TheFloyd73
Epignosis
MovingPictures07
MacDougall
DrWilgy
DFaraday
motel room
JaggedJimmyJay
FZ.
Diiny

[Tangrowth]

Motel or anyone else you should probably look at the votes to make up for epi's floyd-o-vision which I don't really know what to make of

Epi's Floyd-o-vision is not abnormal. Especially early in games, I've seen him demand votes on a particular player... although usually his stances are based on something more substantive, I've also seen him pull stunts like this regardless of alignment to see who would jump on, who is opposed and why, etc.

[a2thezebra]

JJJ's posts haven't persuaded me to change my overall read of him but they do seem genuine enough to leave me more confident that Diiny and FZ are bad.

[Tangrowth]

TheFloyd73
Epignosis
MovingPictures07
MacDougall
DrWilgy
DFaraday
motel room
JaggedJimmyJay
FZ.
Diiny

Wow, what's with that top town read? Did Floyd start supatowning it up? Now I'm really intrigued to finish catching up!

Can you provide explanation as to your bottom 3?

[Tangrowth]

EBWOP and by explanation I just mean a really quick sentence or two

[a2thezebra]

Motel or anyone else you should probably look at the votes to make up for epi's floyd-o-vision which I don't really know what to make of

Epi's Floyd-o-vision is not abnormal. Especially early in games, I've seen him demand votes on a particular player... although usually his stances are based on something more substantive, I've also seen him pull stunts like this regardless of alignment to see who would jump on, who is opposed and why, etc.

Do you think that is what he is doing here with Floyd? He's just focusing on him to gauge reactions?

[Tangrowth]

Me too. Why can't you talk about the potential baddie influence on lynching the cop AND be interested in floyd?

Why "can't?"

Is there some restriction on me?

I'll talk about what I like. I have nothing to say about it.

I want to lynch FLOYD.

What is wrong with you? Seriously, tell me.

Anyway, another needless "last minute lynch switch" (it's got another name, I know, I can't be bothered remembering it). Diiny

Linki- I agree FZ, this game is getting pretty awful.

Floyd, I don't recall any thoughts you've made on Diiny to explain your vote here or previously. Care to provide some insight?

[Tangrowth]

Motel or anyone else you should probably look at the votes to make up for epi's floyd-o-vision which I don't really know what to make of

Epi's Floyd-o-vision is not abnormal. Especially early in games, I've seen him demand votes on a particular player... although usually his stances are based on something more substantive, I've also seen him pull stunts like this regardless of alignment to see who would jump on, who is opposed and why, etc.

Do you think that is what he is doing here with Floyd? He's just focusing on him to gauge reactions?

I think it's partially that, but I think it's also partially that Epi genuinely believes what he's saying and that Floyd isn't (and won't, Epi seems to believe) giving us much to work with. He and DH have had to deal with quite the non-participation in his Star Wars game, and in past games he's hosted (Biblical, for example) and played, there have been similar instances. Epi hates non-participation... so do I. Sometimes I feel just like what he's proposing and I'd love to just lynch low posters on Day 1, but I always am conflicted about it because I hate lynching players based on nothing or very little. But if players have consistently shown in the past to provide nothing or very little and they aren't again, I begin to consider an early lynch of them more so. I can empathize with Epi's thoughts on the matter.

So I definitely think it's a little of A and a little of B.

[a2thezebra]

TheFloyd73
Epignosis
MovingPictures07
MacDougall
DrWilgy
DFaraday
motel room
JaggedJimmyJay
FZ.
Diiny

Wow, what's with that top town read? Did Floyd start supatowning it up? Now I'm really intrigued to finish catching up!

Can you provide explanation as to your bottom 3?

No, do not get your hopes up about Floyd supatowning. He is my top town read simply because he is literally the only player who has yet to ping me even slightly. That's it.

JaggedJimmyJay came off as very opportunistic to me regarding his conflict with Epi and seemed nervous when he backtracked later. I called him out on this and he responded with more nervousness than I would expect if I was mistaken. However, his more recent responses read genuine to me, hence him being third-last as opposed to last.

FZ is just playing an easy scum game. She voted for a player based on a cop claim that was dubious to begin with and nothing else while making little comment as to what she actually thought about the player she was voting for (she has since remedied this...by saying that she thinks Diiny is town) and now that the cop claim has been proven false she is now voting for DrWilgy for misleading her. Easy decision Day 1, easy decision Day 2. Not to mention her only way of defending herself is by pretending that people only suspect her because they haven't been reading her previous defenses, hence her using the same weak defense over and over again while feigning (?) frustration at the game overall.

Diiny is scum that I caught almost as soon as the game started. People are under the impression that his recent posts read genuine and I don't see it. Quantity is not quality by default.

[Tangrowth]

Epignosis's crusade against Floyd is based upon what strikes me as close to nothing, so I view it dubiously. Regardless of Floyd's alignment, I don't understand Epi's conduct as a town approach -- he is shouting his desired target and apparently doesn't care much at all about anything else happening in the game. That's not inspiring, and even if he is right about Floyd it would strike me as luck at best and calculated at worst. Epi doesn't strike me as the guy that plays for a lucky break.

I don't know how one can have any conviction in reading Floyd as town or mafia right now. There's not enough there.

Why is it that you could construct a gambit town approach for the behavior of DrWilgy but not for Epignosis?

[a2thezebra]

Motel or anyone else you should probably look at the votes to make up for epi's floyd-o-vision which I don't really know what to make of

Epi's Floyd-o-vision is not abnormal. Especially early in games, I've seen him demand votes on a particular player... although usually his stances are based on something more substantive, I've also seen him pull stunts like this regardless of alignment to see who would jump on, who is opposed and why, etc.

Do you think that is what he is doing here with Floyd? He's just focusing on him to gauge reactions?

I think it's partially that, but I think it's also partially that Epi genuinely believes what he's saying and that Floyd isn't (and won't, Epi seems to believe) giving us much to work with. He and DH have had to deal with quite the non-participation in his Star Wars game, and in past games he's hosted (Biblical, for example) and played, there have been similar instances. Epi hates non-participation... so do I. Sometimes I feel just like what he's proposing and I'd love to just lynch low posters on Day 1, but I always am conflicted about it because I hate lynching players based on nothing or very little. But if players have consistently shown in the past to provide nothing or very little and they aren't again, I begin to consider an early lynch of them more so. I can empathize with Epi's thoughts on the matter.

So I definitely think it's a little of A and a little of B.

So...a personal policy lynch? Oops, antonyms.

[a2thezebra]

Epignosis's crusade against Floyd is based upon what strikes me as close to nothing, so I view it dubiously. Regardless of Floyd's alignment, I don't understand Epi's conduct as a town approach -- he is shouting his desired target and apparently doesn't care much at all about anything else happening in the game. That's not inspiring, and even if he is right about Floyd it would strike me as luck at best and calculated at worst. Epi doesn't strike me as the guy that plays for a lucky break.

I don't know how one can have any conviction in reading Floyd as town or mafia right now. There's not enough there.

Why is it that you could construct a gambit town approach for the behavior of DrWilgy but not for Epignosis?

Excellent question.

[Tangrowth]

Mac, Diiny, and MP also appear to have been present at EOD when Enrique claimed cop (via green-checking Sorsha with two minutes remaining) -- I'll also ask them what impact that move by Enrique had on their mindsets in the heat of the moment.

So, uh... I ask you all that.

Eh? He claimed it after the vote closed.

[Tangrowth]

Oh, I see this was corrected already. Disregard.

[Tangrowth]

While I wasn't around at EOD, I'm not sure I would have changed my vote if I had been. I can understand Enrique's late phase behavior making him look worse to the people who were present, but I do think it's important that he claimed cop two minutes prior to his death (with a two vote lead over Diiny) and there didn't seem to be much budging in response. One switch from him back to Diiny would have forced a tie and possibly rescued him.

I swear if you didn't counter claim earlier...

Doc, you seemed to be conscious of the possibility that he was being truthful. Please try to describe your mindset in those final moments and what prevented you from moving your vote.

I was conscious, but as I explained there was not enough time for me to accurately judge his truthfulness. I took it as a last second gamble for survival. Now that I've had time to process the claim, I should've changed off of him. Possibility of lynching a baddie should've been taken, and I should've taken the choice where we would've gained more time.

Wilgy, can you explain to me what this means with respect to Enrique specifically?

Does this not apply to literally any player you could have voted for?

[Tangrowth]

It'd be so neat to hear what DFaraday thinks about stuff.

On Day 1 I liked MP's early enthusiasm about getting into the fake peek drama, but the good vibes are weaker now. This post appears rather baked to me, like MP was actively trying to cool on his town read of Diiny and took the opportunity in response to Doc's admission that the red peek was false and subsequent review.

Explain.

I asked you some questions toward the end of Day 1; did you get to any of them?

Are the vibes weaker solely as a result of the post you link here?

It's not baked. I thought my wording was pretty clear -- seeing Diiny's reactions ISO did give me the first bit of pause in my town read of him. It's one thing to read how Diiny reacted to the situation over time, but I didn't realize the magnitude of his switch in read on DrWilgy until Wilgy ISOd it there. Does that address any concerns you have? If not, let me know.

[Tangrowth]

Me too. Why can't you talk about the potential baddie influence on lynching the cop AND be interested in floyd?

Why "can't?"

Is there some restriction on me?

I'll talk about what I like. I have nothing to say about it.

I want to lynch FLOYD.

You keep saying that but you're not trying to convince anybody to do it.

Floyd doesn't give me anything to convince anybody with. What would you have me do?

His only post today is "another needless last minute switch." When was there another last minute switch?

Are you really that simple minded? It's the reason why we lost out cop!

Floyd, can you not see how you've provided comparatively little for us to understand your train of thought?

[Tangrowth]

How is everyone reconciling Wilgy's thoughts regarding seeing Enrique's peek before the deadline, when it's now been confirmed that it was after?

I'm not quite sure how to interpret this with respect to Wilgy's alignment.

[Tangrowth]

Linki- I agree FZ, this game is getting pretty awful.

This game is getting worse by the minute

I need to reread people, and I don't have time for it now.

How much do you want to bet that one or both of these posters are scum

Why?