The Syndicate

Soneji, based on thread related reasons, who do you trust?

S~V~S wrote:Soneji, based on thread related reasons, who do you trust?

You: For your part in the Fuzz lynch, it didn't really gain strong steam till you jumped on it with your reasoning
Black Rock: Since you vouched for her
Turnip Head: The failed lynch implies hes a Don
Prisoner: Obvious reasons
Quin: Rather strong townread that I explained earlier

Leaving:

Dom
Elo
Epi
Chaindeath
Nerolunar
Sloonei

Sloonei wrote:

Soneji wrote:Lets look at the numbers here. There are four cops to eight civs, if we assume that the seemer has been lynched. The cops will arrest at least one player tonight, potentially two. Lets assume the former, that puts us at four cops, seven civs. A mislynch next day phase will put as at best 4 vs 5 after the subsequent night phase. So at most, we can afford one mislynch if the cops don't get lucky with their 20% chance of lynching a second player.

The Scotty lynch was based on meta reasoning mainly, from how he acted in another game I wasn't in. I have had Epi try to shoot down my suspicion on Mongoose for meta reasons, SVS was saying Epi wouldn't tunnel sig if he was mafia due to meta reasons, etc...it seems this site has an over reliance on meta. Even the suspicion on me has never fully taken off as people are hesitant due to not knowing my meta. We need to stop thinking about meta and just judge the actions by themselves.

What are some actions you judge to be suspicious?

Epi's avoidance of the Fuzz lynch and tunneling of sig all game. Mongoose's lack of contributions when she was in the game while posting in a way that made her seem contributive, with a weird focus on getting a vote in(wanted to do a vote trade with TH so as not to vote "randomly"). Chaindeath as a whole.

Nerolunar wrote:Damn. Crappy situation we are in, but I believe that we can still win! I like Sonejis recent posts and GTH he strikes me as civ.

My top scum reads are Chaindeath and Dom. Doms recent posts lacks civ motivation and he does not come off as someone who is struggling to win.

"Lacks civ motivation"
Qualify this statement.

I essentially agree with Soneji here, other than the fact that I'd replace Sloonei with him on that list.

The game seems reduded to a few wild card choices:

Epi or Soneji?

chaindeath or Nerolunar?

Elohcin or Dom?

Team mate relationships are also possible in these dynamics, but this is where my mind is now.

Its the vibe I get while reading your posts.

IMO, these are the most suspicious things keft in this thread:

1. Epi votes a2thezebra on Day 2
2. Soneji supports a fake case on Day 7
3. chaindeath votes ika on Day 6
4. Draconus (Dom) votes DDL on Day 5
5. Epi tunnels sig all game long
6. Nero tunnels chaindeath all game long
7. Sloonei's CFD vote switcharoo on Day 2

left*

Nerolunar wrote:Its the vibe I get while reading your posts.

Point to specific posts and explain the unciv motivations behind them

Request for everyone:

For the sake of argument in this post alone, let's assume the seemers is already gone. Who was it?

Scotty

I have problems believing he was not bad, but I could be so trapped in my own tunnel that I don't even know I am in a tunnel anymore. I acknowledge that. But I still think he was bad.

Scotty was good, I'm about 80% confident in that. His tone as he was getting lynched was too desperate not to be a sincere townie. Epi is my top suspect right now. I've waffled on him all game long and it's about time I did something.

@ Hosts: Has this whole game been an elaborate and torturous April Fools joke? Please?

Sloonei, if the seemer is gone who do you think it was?

Ika was probably the seemer. There was that whole thing where he said an arrest failed on Sloonei. The guy was just extremely scummy besides. He did flip Stool Pigeon though, which if the Don was the role whose identity he knew, he may just have guessed that the failed arrest was on his Don(Sloonei in this case). Weird to out it like that but Ika didn't follow normal standard of play.

Either way, Sloonei can be removed from the pile.

I also apologize to my fellow players for allowing myself to become so demoralized in this game that I essentially dropped out of the last day phase. I'm here until the bitter end now. Let's try to at least take one more cop down with us.

Linki: DDL or Boomslang for potential seemers. Long Con is a wild card I guess.

I think ika was town, but I suppose he'd be my #4 seemer suspect. We're getting pretty far down the list now.

I don't think it was LC.

And Scotty acted pretty much the same as he was being lynched in Rocky/Bullwinkel, imo. So

The only think ika as seemer had going for it, for me, was that the baddies killed/arrested Silver the next night. I can totally see them wanting to and ika telling them no. So once he was gone, Bye Silver.

The reason I ask for these theories is because if there's enough of a consensus then I'll go ahead and do interactive reads. My guess is DDL.

ika as the seemer makes more sense with Epi as a cop though, because that would tie right into the Silverwolf night kill too.

linki: S~V~S beat me to it. :P

I don't think Scotty was the seemer.

Like I said, I could still be tripping at Tunnelfest. No one likes betting the farm & being wrong.

Looked at Dom´s ISO and its actually not as bad as I remembered. I guess I just didn´t like it in the passing.

I know you guys will probably jump at my throat for this but seriously, I don´t want to sow false suspicion on players. Thank you Sloonei for pointing it out

Nerolunar wrote:Looked at Dom´s ISO and its actually not as bad as I remembered. I guess I just didn´t like it in the passing.

I know you guys will probably jump at my throat for this but seriously, I don´t want to sow false suspicion on players. Thank you Sloonei for pointing it out

Transparency is better than forcing the issue. Still, if you had the feeling in passing, that still must mean it was inspired by something -- even if you no longer feel that way. Please illustrate what brought that reaction out of you before.

Dom wrote:

Sloonei wrote:Anyone want to join me in voting for Don/Draconus/Mongoose? Collectively they've provided almost no content. Dom hasn't been inactive since he showed up, but his posts do not represent anything that would be diffocult for a scum player to fake. I think we've definitely tot lurker scums on our hands in this game and he fits the bill better than anyone else.

....so...why am I bad?

Turnip Head wrote:wtf, RIP sig

Sorry that I haven't had time for this. Where should I vote? As of right now I don't want to vote for Epignosis or Scotty but I also haven't read the cases on them. I feel good about both of them from what I've read. chaindeath, Domconus and Soneji are all options for me.

Why?

Nerolunar wrote:My vote on Chaindeath is going nowhere, so Im changing it. I think Domcongoose looks worse than Scotty tbh, so Im voting for him.

Dom

WHY?!

Turnip Head wrote:Well I hope you guys are right about Scotty. .. Ive been wrong about most things so far so maybe I'm wrong about him too, but I think he's town.

Voted for Dom.

W H Y?

This post I think. Its a special case because most of us voted on record of both Mongoose and Draconus´ behavior and prioritized that vote instead of Scotty and Dom was exhibiting really loud behavior and I was thinking that it was weird.

Okay. Let's return to this post then, Nero:

Nerolunar wrote:Damn. Crappy situation we are in, but I believe that we can still win! I like Sonejis recent posts and GTH he strikes me as civ.

My top scum reads are Chaindeath and Dom. Doms recent posts lacks civ motivation and he does not come off as someone who is struggling to win.

If you're no longer feeling Dom, who takes his place? Can you do better than two names?

Sloonei wrote:@ Hosts: Has this whole game been an elaborate and torturous April Fools joke? Please?

S~V~S wrote:Hrm. Epi is always the one bitching about people making up fake real life excuses to avoid mafia threads.

It would be kinda ironic if the first time he did it himself he got snagged

I got lynched one time when I was away from the computer, and it was because I was at a teacher's conference. I had my wife's laptop, but had to rely on hotel and McDonald's wifi. I made one post at McDonald's, had to get back on the bus, and people took my one post and lynched me over it while I was traveling. I was a mafia role that had killed his own team after being recruited to a civilian who had since turned last man standing. If that doesn't make any sense, just know that it was an MP game.

Prisoner 509378 wrote:S~V~S, another question: were you in the game Epignosis referenced a while back in this one (I think Death Note)? I ask because in that game he said he spent a ton of time and energy trying to get FZ lynched, and in the end it turned out he was wrong (as a townie). He lamented that it had been a waste of his time then, to do all that work against his own win condition.

In the face of MP preparing to modkill sig and essentially confirming the Messagero claim (assuming it's legit, and I don't think a seemer would be allowed to benefit from their role if they were modkilled, they'd flip bad), Epignosis lamented in this game about the time he had wasted. Is this a parallel I should care about?

Technically, I was an independent, but I played for the civilians, as I needed one particular "independent bad guy" dead to win, which required the lynching of an "actual bad guy" first before the "independent bad guy" could be lynched to seal my win. If that doesn't make any sense, just know that it was an MP game.

S~V~S wrote:

Prisoner 509378 wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Why couldn't the Seemer intentionally trigger a modkill? It could be a smart move. I could see this host allowing it.

I couldn't. MP specifically refused to allow Draconus to benefit from intentionally breaking the self-voting rule in Talking Heads. He wouldn't allow sig to benefit from intentionally breaking the roleclaim rule in this game.

That's way more tinfoil than what I said.

No it isn't. That is a different scenario. MP loves him some baddie plotting. You would be surprised at what he might allow baddie teams to do. I have played all of his games except one or two and no one brings the crazy shit like MP.

But again, no way of knowing until post game.

In one game, I was Mafia, and MP let me add things to the host posts each Night, and in one instance I wrote it up that a certain player would die in two days. The player died in two real time days (or something like that), and then there were portals and poker and bombs disguised as presents and Herman the Planet Smasher. If that doesn't make any sense...you know what to do.

S~V~S wrote:I saw Bass intentionally out himself to get LC lynched with a faux thread error. He pretended to be accidentally posting BTSC directed at LC in the thread. He was lynched, and LC followed.

Roger Rabbit was the funniest game I've ever witnessed.

Soneji wrote:Lets look at the numbers here. There are four cops to eight civs, if we assume that the seemer has been lynched. The cops will arrest at least one player tonight, potentially two. Lets assume the former, that puts us at four cops, seven civs. A mislynch next day phase will put as at best 4 vs 5 after the subsequent night phase. So at most, we can afford one mislynch if the cops don't get lucky with their 20% chance of lynching a second player.

The Scotty lynch was based on meta reasoning mainly, from how he acted in another game I wasn't in. I have had Epi try to shoot down my suspicion on Mongoose for meta reasons, SVS was saying Epi wouldn't tunnel sig if he was mafia due to meta reasons, etc...it seems this site has an over reliance on meta. Even the suspicion on me has never fully taken off as people are hesitant due to not knowing my meta. We need to stop thinking about meta and just judge the actions by themselves.

Funny coming from a guy who has never played Mafia on this site before (and, no, The Flash wasn't Mafia).

Soneji wrote:Epi's avoidance of the Fuzz lynch and tunneling of sig all game.

I did neither one of these things.

Prisoner 509378 wrote:IMO, these are the most suspicious things keft in this thread:

1. Epi votes a2thezebra on Day 2
2. Soneji supports a fake case on Day 7
3. chaindeath votes ika on Day 6
4. Draconus (Dom) votes DDL on Day 5
5. Epi tunnels sig all game long
6. Nero tunnels chaindeath all game long
7. Sloonei's CFD vote switcharoo on Day 2

I did one of these things.

Prisoner 509378 wrote:Request for everyone:

For the sake of argument in this post alone, let's assume the seemers is already gone. Who was it?

If I had to venture a guess, I would say Boomslang. Also, nice subject-verb agreement.

Sloonei wrote:Scotty was good, I'm about 80% confident in that. His tone as he was getting lynched was too desperate not to be a sincere townie. Epi is my top suspect right now. I've waffled on him all game long and it's about time I did something.

I can be your top suspect as long as you don't lynch me for it.

Epignosis wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Hrm. Epi is always the one bitching about people making up fake real life excuses to avoid mafia threads.

It would be kinda ironic if the first time he did it himself he got snagged

I got lynched one time when I was away from the computer, and it was because I was at a teacher's conference. I had my wife's laptop, but had to rely on hotel and McDonald's wifi. I made one post at McDonald's, had to get back on the bus, and people took my one post and lynched me over it while I was traveling. I was a mafia role that had killed his own team after being recruited to a civilian who had since turned last man standing. If that doesn't make any sense, just know that it was an MP game.

Technically, I was an independent, but I played for the civilians, as I needed one particular "independent bad guy" dead to win, which required the lynching of an "actual bad guy" first before the "independent bad guy" could be lynched to seal my win. If that doesn't make any sense, just know that it was an MP game.

In one game, I was Mafia, and MP let me add things to the host posts each Night, and in one instance I wrote it up that a certain player would die in two days. The player died in two real time days (or something like that), and then there were portals and poker and bombs disguised as presents and Herman the Planet Smasher. If that doesn't make any sense...you know what to do.

Epignosis wrote:

S~V~S wrote:I saw Bass intentionally out himself to get LC lynched with a faux thread error. He pretended to be accidentally posting BTSC directed at LC in the thread. He was lynched, and LC followed.

Roger Rabbit was the funniest game I've ever witnessed.

Hey, that was my idea.

Bass executed it well though.

Epignosis wrote:I did one of these things.

How would you describe your own treatment of sig in this Mafia game?

Prisoner 509378 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:I did one of these things.

How would you describe your own treatment of sig in this Mafia game?

Eager and confident, in increasing measures as each phase went on. My premises were good but the conclusion was poor.

"Tunneling" implies I haven't done anything else, and that's far from the case.

Prisoner 509378 wrote:Okay. Let's return to this post then, Nero:

Nerolunar wrote:Damn. Crappy situation we are in, but I believe that we can still win! I like Sonejis recent posts and GTH he strikes me as civ.

My top scum reads are Chaindeath and Dom. Doms recent posts lacks civ motivation and he does not come off as someone who is struggling to win.

If you're no longer feeling Dom, who takes his place? Can you do better than two names?

Im thinking Epi or Elohcin.

Epignosis wrote:

Prisoner 509378 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:I did one of these things.

How would you describe your own treatment of sig in this Mafia game?

Eager and confident, in increasing measures as each phase went on. My premises were good but the conclusion was poor.

"Tunneling" implies I haven't done anything else, and that's far from the case.

Our definitions of tunneling in this context differ. What I refer to is reading a player as a baddie without exception continually as a game progresses without developing that read or expressing doubts.

With sig confirmed as town now and having zero probability of being the seemer, we're forced to ask whether your crusade against him was always genuinely motivated or better described as a long-term setup to ensure a mislynch would eventually occur.

Nerolunar wrote:Im thinking Epi or Elohcin.

It's always helpful to accompany a read with an explanation whenever possible. Why those two?

You definitely had been tunneling on sig, unless your definition of the word is completely different.

As for my meta talk, that is kind of the point. I haven't really played much on this site, therefore I have no meta knowledge to cloud my judgement. I have meant to be more active in establishing myself here, as my participation in Flash and Pikmin was shameful, as were my earlier contributions here. I have a much better feel for this sites layout and style of play that has made me more comfortable and confident when posting here.

Prisoner 509378 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Prisoner 509378 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:I did one of these things.

How would you describe your own treatment of sig in this Mafia game?

Eager and confident, in increasing measures as each phase went on. My premises were good but the conclusion was poor.

"Tunneling" implies I haven't done anything else, and that's far from the case.

Our definitions of tunneling in this context differ. What I refer to is reading a player as a baddie without exception continually as a game progresses without developing that read or expressing doubts.

With sig confirmed as town now and having zero probability of being the seemer, we're forced to ask whether your crusade against him was always genuinely motivated or better described as a long-term setup to ensure a mislynch would eventually occur.

If that's the case, then I still don't agree (and you did say "Tunneling all game"). Shortly after Day 2, I defended sig from immediate backlash, and acknowledged his tendency to get lynched early on for stupid reasons. I was convinced this wasn't one of those times.

That and Chaindeath, and I don´t know who the last one is. Quin maybe? I don´t know, he recovered really well.

I felt good about Serge for a good bit of the game. However, the civ actions of other players makes me go by process of elimination and Serglochin does not look good to me then.

Your ISO of me made me remember Epi´s behavior towards me - feeling sus because of the streering yadda yadda I have been over it. Out of all players he still looks good, but worse than other players. That is what is the hardest about this game for me at least: people are great at projecting town.

Epignosis wrote:I defended sig from immediate backlash

I can't find this in your post history. Could you show me?

Prisoner 509378 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:I defended sig from immediate backlash

I can't find this in your post history. Could you show me?

Perhaps "defend" is too strong a verb. This is what I meant:

Epi, were you remotely suspicious of Zebra when you voted for her?

Prisoner 509378 wrote:Epi, were you remotely suspicious of Zebra when you voted for her?

No.

Epignosis wrote:

Prisoner 509378 wrote:Epi, were you remotely suspicious of Zebra when you voted for her?

No.

Can you show me a precedent for you placing throwaway votes like that one for players you do not suspect as a civilian? I am not unused to seeing you vote on your own or in smaller wagons when you have convictions that you're trying to push and others aren't taking interest in them -- this would not be an example of that.

It was a wasted vote during what remains the most crucial phase of the game so far.

I'm going to get speculative here about something contributing to my perspective that DDL may have been the seemer.

He was shanked in prison.

Y'all might not know/remember exactly what that means. In the prison, the prisoners are collectively faced with a challenge during each day phase. If they successfully complete enough challenges, they break out of prison, as you all saw on Day 5.

However, for every failed challenge, the prisoners must hold a vote to shank someone (operates just like a lynch). This never occurred while I was in the slammer, but clearly it has now with Golden and DDL both shanked last day phase. I think that, based on the general behavior of the prisoners on Day 5, especially me, paroled Ricochet, and 920077, that the cop team identifies the prisoners as a generally pro-civilian organization. This means that any cops among them will have a reason to resist their escaping again.

Whoever gets shanked almost surely played an important part in preventing the prisoners from succeeding in whatever challenge they faced. I don't know why two of them were shanked (perhaps that's how it works in a tie). Golden was night arrested though, so he's not a cop.

DDL was the other one shanked, and I am assuming it was because he did something to screw up their challenge. They shanked him as punishment. If I'm right about that, and DDL did it on purpose, then that would strongly imply he is a cop to me.

Again, this is speculative. But I'm putting it out there.

Prisoner 509378 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Prisoner 509378 wrote:Epi, were you remotely suspicious of Zebra when you voted for her?

No.

Can you show me a precedent for you placing throwaway votes like that one for players you do not suspect as a civilian? I am not unused to seeing you vote on your own or in smaller wagons when you have convictions that you're trying to push and others aren't taking interest in them -- this would not be an example of that.

It was a wasted vote during what remains the most crucial phase of the game so far.

No, I can't, because there is no such precedent. I don't like throwing my vote away, and I don't like missing. I've only missed two votes ever (one was due to travel- drove ten hours and missed the vote by a few minutes because my PC at home had to install bullshit updates, the other because I got drunk and fell asleep and got lynched Day 1). I hate missing votes, but I hate being uninformed too.

The verb sig and now Soneji have been using against me is that I avoided that vote. I didn't avoid it- avoidance is an active thing you purposely try to do. I wasn't home. I came home with little time and pages to read. In the turn of a single page I saw votes fly from gleam to Fuzz. I thought I could catch up, but that wasn't going to happen. So fuck it said I. Grant the punchline zebra was waiting for.

Epignosis wrote:The verb sig and now Soneji have been using against me is that I avoided that vote. I didn't avoid it- avoidance is an active thing you purposely try to do. I wasn't home. I came home with little time and pages to read. In the turn of a single page I saw votes fly from gleam to Fuzz. I thought I could catch up, but that wasn't going to happen. So fuck it said I. Grant the punchline zebra was waiting for.

I don't think the word "avoid" is inaccurate. If you observed a number of players moving from gleam to Fuzz, another significant wagon on ika, and deliberately did not contribute to either notable wagon -- then you avoided them. That's a logical assertion. You can rightly suggest that the motive for that avoidance isn't what sig or Soneji has stated it was, but you can't say you didn't avoid the wagons.

Quin sat in the coffee shop, sipping his mocha latte and people watching. There was a woman working behind the pastry counter that caught his eye. He tossed the cup and headed up to the counter, pretending to peruse the selection of scones, muffins and various sweet goods. "What can I get for you?" He finally looked up and into her lovely eyes and then responded shyly, "Could I get that cranberry scone?"

She took out the scone and put it on a small plate, "Anything else?"

He nodded, his mouth was dry but he managed to ask, "Yeah, could I also get one of those brownies?"

She put the brownie on the plate as well, "Will that be all?"

"Um..." Why, oh why couldn't he get it out with, just ask her out! "I'll take a cheese danish."

She looked at him oddly, but took out the danish and put it on another plate, "Did you need anything else?"

"How about a chocolate cake pop?"

Placing the cake pop on the plate with the danish she asked, "Did you want a drink with all of this?"

"Uh, yeah, a drink would good!" He was sweating now, did she notice?

She got his drink and started ringing him up without asking if he wanted anything else, she was afraid he might never stop and a line was gathering behind him. As she passed his change to him he finally drew up the courage and blurted out, "could I take you out this weekend?"

Black Rock looked at him awkwardly and held up her left hand, "Sorry, I'm married to Long Con."

"Oh!" He looked around for a quick escape, "oh, no problem, it's no big deal, sorry about that."

Quin rushed out to the patio and dropped down in a seat at a table. What a fool he had been, such a fool. He didn't have much time to worry over it though, as the police rushed in and arrested both himself and Black Rock. He wouldn't be taking anyone out now.



Black Rock has been arrested by the Police. She was ?????.

Quin has been arrested by the Police. He was ?????.

It is now Day 10.

You have 48 hours to find a policeman. Good luck, goons!

Good grief, how many times has that double arrest worked?

We're still here, so that should confirm the seemer is dead. Still no prison break, likely because of what I just said about the shanking.

S~V~S is confirmed town. Quin being arrested provides some potential for analysis, given the treatment he received from so many people. He was also doing a great job in the department of trying to assign roles to people.

It's actually *possible* the seemer is alive, leaving the game at 5 vs 5 -- only continuing because I exist.

Wait, I counted sig in the poll, which is obviously inaccurate. Error, hosts?

The person I most trust at this stage is Sloonei. Even more than you, 509378.

Sloonei, what the fuck do we do?