The Syndicate

RIP Wilgy!

I've been pretty busy with PhD stuff, and now Draconus's Attack on Titan game has started so my mafia attention is already split between the two games. I'm going to re-examine the lower part of my rainbow list today.

To everyone: Whom are you considering for a vote today (tentatively) and why?

This Young Lady hopes her champion rests in peace.
This Young Lady fails to understand why the Forbidden Ones would kill someone so handsome.
This Young Lady thinks her former lover Probey might have a hand in Wiggly's death.
This Young Lady sees a new creature has been created.
This Young Lady wonders if this creature serves the Dark Master?

Wow, there are lots of Process elements on the poll.

RIP wilgy.


I am still suspicious of DF and might also look into llama more.

Cya Wilgy!

Yo MP! Are you still suspicious of Nutella?

Looking at Wilgy's suspect pool, I see JJJ from the past day and then you, MP. Could be trying to silence him before taking off, but that's some WIFOM shit with a cherry on top. Overanalyzation of NK's will turn me into a pumpkin.

I will admit that I have tunneled a bit on you over the past day, MP, without proper evidence to back it up. I just get nervous around you since the champions game. I know you are not averse to bussing teammates, and your suspicion of Elo and leading up to your Elo vote seemed to come out of nowhere.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Wow, there are lots of Process elements on the poll.

I think you are the process.

How do we kill you?

Scotty wrote:Cya Wilgy!

Yo MP! Are you still suspicious of Nutella?

Looking at Wilgy's suspect pool, I see JJJ from the past day and then you, MP. Could be trying to silence him before taking off, but that's some WIFOM shit with a cherry on top. Overanalyzation of NK's will turn me into a pumpkin.

I will admit that I have tunneled a bit on you over the past day, MP, without proper evidence to back it up. I just get nervous around you since the champions game. I know you are not averse to bussing teammates, and your suspicion of Elo and leading up to your Elo vote seemed to come out of nowhere.

I'd call nutella a slight mafia read at the moment. I'd rather lynch a moderate or better read, but yeah, she could be mafia I suppose.

I understand tinfoiling me due to prior performance, but I'd hope you judge me based on my actions purely in this game and find my alignment based on those (hint: I'm town). Can you explain how my Elo vote came out of nowhere? I responded to JJJ and others earlier explaining my train of thought which showed my progression up until my return to the thread (during which I was very vocal). What do you still want me to address about that?

Scotty wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Wow, there are lots of Process elements on the poll.

I think you are the process.

How do we kill you?

Reason?

I'm not, so I have no idea. I'd imagine just by lynching whoever has that role. I'd hope anyway.

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MovingPictures07 wrote:RIP Wilgy!

I've been pretty busy with PhD stuff, and now Draconus's Attack on Titan game has started so my mafia attention is already split between the two games. I'm going to re-examine the lower part of my rainbow list today.

To everyone: Whom are you considering for a vote today (tentatively) and why?

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Epignosis wrote:

Citizens...?

Alive

agleaminranks
AllAlongtheBoardwalk //error entry not found
DFaraday
DrumBeats
DrWilgy
Illyria //error entry not found
JaggedJimmyJay
YumYum
MovingPictures07
nijuukyugou
nutella
reywaS //error entry not found
thellama73

Dead
a2thezebra - Lynched Day 1: Farrah Yon-Dale
sig - Killed Night 1.
Elohcin - Lynched Day 2: Sybil Reisz
Matt - Killed Night 2.
Nerolunar - Lynched Day 3: Subject Not Found

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MovingPictures07 wrote:vote today //error 3 invalid entries

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cloning errors>.

Scotty wrote:Hello, boys and girls.

I'm behind. Which of the 3 on the poll is a member of the @&$^!)*?

It's ok if you want to confess a bit. I'm a great ^@&^@.

kneel4justice wrote:Hi everyone! D:
I haven't played mafia in nearly 9 months, I think? I used to be addicted, lol. I'm excited to be back!
Sorry to have missed you ^@&*! (I was really hoping to get to play with you again) not Sig.

I've been reading/skimming the game as it happened for the most part, so I'll see if I can get some of my thoughts posted tonight (no promises though).

MacDougall wrote:Hello you friends. I am [not] on your %^&$.

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thellama73 wrote:I just want to say I think I'm "slight mafia". Shows I still have my edge. :toast:

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The shitty thing about Day 3's limited poll options is that we're left in a position this day phase where it's difficult to progress reads in a meaningful way. There were three choices and one of them was lynched by a pretty wide margin. I think each player remaining needs to establish a clear set of reads on everyone else to facilitate the most productive dialogue this phase before we begin to approach the deadline. Maybe we can even try a GTH exercise, though in this small/slow game it might be difficult to get a decent number of people in here simultaneously.

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JaggedJimmyJay wrote:The easy thing about Day 3's limited poll options is that we're left in a position this day phase where it's easy to progress reads in a meaningful way. There were three choices and one of them was lynched by a pretty wide margin. I think each player remaining needs to establish a !#$@% set of reads on everyone else to facilitate the most productive dialogue this phase before we begin to approach the deadline. Maybe we can even try a G[o]T[o]H[ell] exercise, though in this small/slow game it might be difficult to get a decent number of people in here simultaneously.

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Golden wrote:I would compare the Nerolunar voter's suspicion from before day 3's poll to thier suspicion on day 3 if I were here.

It strikes me as a somewhat muddier ordeal than it usually would be to assess the Nero mislynch because the potential voting field was narrowed so severely. I'll at least check it out though and see how I feel about each of the votes for Nero apart from my own.

~~~

nutella's vote was first. She has said that one reason she voted early was the initially declated 24 hour deadline, which I think is a reasonable justification for her having voted so early.

In her post history there is a lot of content to suggest she would be willing to support a Nerolunar lynch, perhaps most significantly this post from Day 2:

nutella wrote:Alright, I'm giving Eloh another chance and voting for Nerolunar because he is bad. Just a strong gut feeling that has emerged from his last several posts. I feel similarly about DF, and to a lesser extent llama.

I will say that though nutella did clearly state her desire to lynch Nerolunar, I'm not sure she explained very thoroughly why she suspected him as she did. At least with a CTRL+F, this is the only example I can find, when she attributed her baddie read on him to "complaints about not winning" and his Day 2 vote for a Process element. This isn't the most substantive case. nutella, if you would, please explain in more detail why you suspected Nerolunar as much as you did -- seemingly more than any other player.

~~~

thellama73's vote was second. The only explanation provided:

thellama73 wrote:

Nerolunar wrote:

thellama73 wrote:24 hour lynch? What a gyp! I thought I had another day.

It was a 24 hour lynch until it was changed to 48.

Why did you vote for me?

Because I felt like it!

llama, why did you feel like it?

~~~

MovingPictures07's vote was third. Following the read progression:

Yellow in first rainbow. / Orange in second rainbow -- both Day 1. In the same rainbows, nijuukyugou was yellow and green respectively. Moving forward to Day 3, new rainbow has Nerolunar red and nijuukyogou dark green. At least given these progressions it would seem MP's choice was rather easy with process of elimination.

MP's stated reasons for suspecting Nero early were a perceived "No U" on Night 1 and a disdain for his Day 1 Zebra vote. There's obviously a void in Day 2 when MP had no posts so the full progression is rather disjointed. The most noteworthy thing to say here is probably related to the Day 3 rainbow I referenced above where Nero was the lowest red name (and MP said he was making some effort to put them in an actual order). MP, what caused Nero's rainbow nosedive?

~~~

DFaraday's vote was the fourth. He had voiced suspicion of Nero from Day 2 onward and on Day 3 he employed process of elimination for his vote, voicing a town read on MP and referencing my points in favor of nijuukyugou. I have no immediate issue with this vote compared to the others, but it does remind me to echo a question I asked earlier that I don't believe was addressed:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

DFaraday wrote:I doubt that Epi would put one of each on the poll, thus narrowing down the Process to one of three. I also agree with Nero that it's probably not all civs. I think MP is civ, and JJJ made a pretty good case for Ninja not being Elo's teammate, so Nero is looking the worst of the three to me right now.

What did you like about what I had to say in my niju review?

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JaggedJimmyJay wrote:The easy thing about Day 3's limited poll options is that we're left in a position this day phase where it's easy to progress reads in a meaningful way. There were three choices and one of them was lynched by a pretty wide margin. I think each player remaining needs to establish a !#$@% set of reads on everyone else to facilitate the most productive dialogue this phase before we begin to approach the deadline. Maybe we can even try a G[o]T[o]H[ell] exercise, though in this small/slow game it might be difficult to get a decent number of people in here simultaneously.

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Golden wrote:I would compare the Nerolunar voter's suspicion from before day 3's poll to thier suspicion on day 3 if I were here.

Uh, hi Golden? Well looky there, that's exactly what I'm up to.

Probs would have voted for Wilgy tbh.

I can confirm that I have no idea who to vote for.

However I know my Jimmy's and this one here is too helpful. He is pond.

MacDougall wrote:Probs would have voted for Wilgy tbh.

I can confirm that I have no idea who to vote for.

However I know my Jimmy's and this one here is too helpful. He is pond.

People sure seem to love to tell me how helpful they think I'm supposed to be. What degree of helpfulness or non would you anticipate from "town Jimmy" in this game?

Continued from above...

kneel4justice's vote was the fifth. He voiced some suspicion of Nero on Day 2, suggesting that he might have been employing a baddie appeal to emotion gambit with his remorseful reflection upon his general Mafia skill set (hey Nero, keep playing pal you're doing fine). He waffled a little bit on it:

kneel4justice wrote:As for Nero...I do think the posts are suspicious, but I haven't decided if it means bad alignment. It might truly be coming from a player who doesn't have much faith in their scumhunting abilities. While I disagree with Nero's vote, I can't be sure it equals baddie.

On Day 3 K4J essentially rehashed the same suspicion of Nero's "appeal to emotion" with a tone of uncertainty. He didn't show interest in an MP vote and he suggested he thought niju looked better in light of Elohcin being bad. That was unexplained though -- K4J, please describe what you saw in the niju/Elo interaction that you thought was a good look for niju.

~~~

DrumBeats's vote was the sixth. I don't see any interaction between he and Nero in his ISO unless it's in the form of a back-and-forth without direct quoting/naming until Day 3, when DB made this post:

DrumBeats wrote:And based on that idea, I have a question for everyone. EVERYONE SHOULD ANSWER THIS:

If that is the case, and the three available on the poll are one town, one mafia, and the Process, who do you think is each?

My opinion:
Town-MovingPictures07
Process-nijuukyugou
Mafia-Nerolunar

It's unclear how DB felt about Nero prior to Day 3.

~~~

nijuukyugou's vote was seventh. Similarly she didn't have much to say about Nero prior to Day 3 and her vote was placed as a process of elimination selection. If there's anything to talk about here it's probably this from Night 1:

nijuukyugou wrote:Well, that result was unsurprising It was a shitty lynch, for sure, but it's, alas, a typical Day 1. I'm inclined to agree with Nero, MP - you're taking it quite hard. Unusually so. Perhaps because there's been a string of it lately? (Again, thinking Futurama and now this.) I see it as both lazy civilian play and baddie bandwagon, but at least it'll give us something to look at with those votes? Perhaps I'm also just in a really good mood and more inclined to look at the bright side today

I'm gonna vote Cell, because I wanna know more about it. It's creeping me out, lurking about like it is.

I can't tell whether it was niju's intent to cast suspicion upon MP for the perceived "taking it hard" regarding MP's severe reactions to the Zebra wagon or merely to observe that the reactions existed. It's relevant to this because it represented a MP/Nero dynamic occuring prior to their appearing as nijuu's only poll options on Day 3, when she selected Nero. niju, can you return to this moment and clarify what you intended to convey about MP if anything?

I'll reiterate that I don't think the Nero wagon alone should function as inspiration for today's suspicions and eventual lynch given that it was at least in part facilitated by the abnormal tally circumstance. There are a number of notes I've made though that the players addressed can discuss and hopefully this day phase can become more active.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: DFaraday's vote was the fourth. He had voiced suspicion of Nero from Day 2 onward and on Day 3 he employed process of elimination for his vote, voicing a town read on MP and referencing my points in favor of nijuukyugou. I have no immediate issue with this vote compared to the others, but it does remind me to echo a question I asked earlier that I don't believe was addressed:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

DFaraday wrote:I doubt that Epi would put one of each on the poll, thus narrowing down the Process to one of three. I also agree with Nero that it's probably not all civs. I think MP is civ, and JJJ made a pretty good case for Ninja not being Elo's teammate, so Nero is looking the worst of the three to me right now.

What did you like about what I had to say in my niju review?

Sorry, I missed this. I agreed with you that it was unlikely that a teammate of Elo's would start going after her on Day 1, when Elo wasn't yet strongly under fire.

I'd also say it's unlikely that you or K4J are on Elo's team given your voting history.

Also, I find this pair of posts from Nutella suspicious:

nutella wrote:

kneel4justice wrote:

nutella wrote:Alright, I'm giving Eloh another chance and voting for Nerolunar because he is bad. Just a strong gut feeling that has emerged from his last several posts. I feel similarly about DF, and to a lesser extent llama.

So, what do you make of DF suspicion of Nero? Do you think they're teammates? I don't recall a lot of opinions from DF (if I missed something, please let me know)...so I would be inclined to believe that the few suspicions that DF does share, if he were bad, wouldn't be a teammate. Especially considering Nero was not really under fire.

I do actually think DF and Nero could be teammates. DF already seems to be participating more than he usually does (usually barely at all), and I guess I see your point that his few contributions must be legit but I could also see him cleverly fabricating a suspicion on a teammate that might not have seemed likely to go anywhere. His "case"/comment on Nero was pretty weak and he ends up classifying it as a "mild baddie" read, not a very committed suspicion, and misses the vote anyway. And now he says he's rethinking the suspicion in light of Elo's flip. Idk, it might be a stretch but I could see it.

DF, why do you think you need to reconsider your suspicion of Nero based on the result?

nutella wrote:RIP wilgy.


I am still suspicious of DF and might also look into llama more.

In the first post she suspects me because she thinks I'm fabricating a weak suspicion on a teammate, but then Nero flips civ and Nutella still says she suspects me with no reason given. It reads to me like she wants to seem consistent so she mentions me again, even though her original reason for doing so has been disproven.

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MacDougall wrote:I'm bad and need to be voted on. I'm not contributing and should be lynched. Sadly I am not on the poll.

I still feel good about Wilgy and McDougall. I still feel bad about JJJ. He is a discussion steerer. MP is probably okay.

Sorry for not being more active, lads. Been busy with other things.

Wilgy is dead mate

DF, thinking you were Nero's teammate was not at all my original reason. I had been separately suspicious of you already, and said as much, and then K4J asked me how I could reconcile suspecting both you and Nero given your suspicion of him, and I explained that I believed you could both be teammates, but my suspicion of you still stands after Nero's flip because it was not solely based on that.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Continued from above...

kneel4justice's vote was the fifth. He voiced some suspicion of Nero on Day 2, suggesting that he might have been employing a baddie appeal to emotion gambit with his remorseful reflection upon his general Mafia skill set (hey Nero, keep playing pal you're doing fine). He waffled a little bit on it:

kneel4justice wrote:As for Nero...I do think the posts are suspicious, but I haven't decided if it means bad alignment. It might truly be coming from a player who doesn't have much faith in their scumhunting abilities. While I disagree with Nero's vote, I can't be sure it equals baddie.

On Day 3 K4J essentially rehashed the same suspicion of Nero's "appeal to emotion" with a tone of uncertainty. He didn't show interest in an MP vote and he suggested he thought niju looked better in light of Elohcin being bad. That was unexplained though -- K4J, please describe what you saw in the niju/Elo interaction that you thought was a good look for niju.

I liked that Niju was questioning of Eloh from the very beginning. I believe the first comment was a response to Matt asking if people actually believed that Eloh thought Wilgy was cursed (which I believe most people ignored). Niju's suspicion only increased and she provided one of the first Eloh votes to counteract the Zebra bandwagon.

As a warning, starting tomorrow afternoon and through Tuesday, my participation will likely drop significantly, as I will have a visitor for the weekend I'll do my best to keep up, but I won't be giving the same attention I've been doing so far.

With that being said, I'll try to get some good thoughts in tonight before trivia. First, a response:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: (snipped for relevance)
nijuukyugou's vote was seventh. Similarly she didn't have much to say about Nero prior to Day 3 and her vote was placed as a process of elimination selection. If there's anything to talk about here it's probably this from Night 1:

nijuukyugou wrote:Well, that result was unsurprising It was a shitty lynch, for sure, but it's, alas, a typical Day 1. I'm inclined to agree with Nero, MP - you're taking it quite hard. Unusually so. Perhaps because there's been a string of it lately? (Again, thinking Futurama and now this.) I see it as both lazy civilian play and baddie bandwagon, but at least it'll give us something to look at with those votes? Perhaps I'm also just in a really good mood and more inclined to look at the bright side today

I'm gonna vote Cell, because I wanna know more about it. It's creeping me out, lurking about like it is.

I can't tell whether it was niju's intent to cast suspicion upon MP for the perceived "taking it hard" regarding MP's severe reactions to the Zebra wagon or merely to observe that the reactions existed. It's relevant to this because it represented a MP/Nero dynamic occuring prior to their appearing as nijuu's only poll options on Day 3, when she selected Nero. niju, can you return to this moment and clarify what you intended to convey about MP if anything?

It was an observation in the direction of trying to sniff out if MP was being bad, but not a hard read or anything like that. A sort of bookmark to return to if necessary, if that makes sense. Speaking of MP, he said there wasn't much in that last lynch to observe, and that his reads haven't changed. Looking back upon the reasons for many of those reads, I'd like more elaboration. I'm particularly interested in why nutella is simply a "slight" mafia read, versus Mac/Illyria, who he calls a "moderate" mafia read (and really, now that I think about it, those terms are hella wishy-washy). He has a decent amount to say about nutella, but barely mentions Illyria/Mac, except to say that he's suspicious and that he's garnering suspicion from others. I suppose you could call that observation another bookmark, but MP's posts since the last lynch have garnered my attention in a negative way. His behavior throughout this game keeps making me flip-flop on my read of him, but this is a check in the negative corner without his further elaboration.

As for me, I'm looking mostly at nutella today and will very likely vote her. First, my original agreement with DrumBeats' observations about her opportunistic suspicion of his plan (see original post, because that sentence is already terrible enough as it is). She suspects DB for a poor reason, then backtracks when called on it. Then, she spent a few posts being suspicious of Eloh, only to "give her another chance" and vote Nero, a civ (who, when I look at her posts, is simply called bad because nutella says "he is bad" with no further explanation or suspicion). After the Eloh lynch, she continues to suspect Nero, but doesn't elaborate - simply calls it a "gut read" or "baddie vibe." Then, the irony of this post:

nutella wrote:

kneel4justice wrote:

nutella wrote:Alright, I'm giving Eloh another chance and voting for Nerolunar because he is bad. Just a strong gut feeling that has emerged from his last several posts. I feel similarly about DF, and to a lesser extent llama.

So, what do you make of DF suspicion of Nero? Do you think they're teammates? I don't recall a lot of opinions from DF (if I missed something, please let me know)...so I would be inclined to believe that the few suspicions that DF does share, if he were bad, wouldn't be a teammate. Especially considering Nero was not really under fire.

I do actually think DF and Nero could be teammates. DF already seems to be participating more than he usually does (usually barely at all), and I guess I see your point that his few contributions must be legit but I could also see him cleverly fabricating a suspicion on a teammate that might not have seemed likely to go anywhere. His "case"/comment on Nero was pretty weak and he ends up classifying it as a "mild baddie" read, not a very committed suspicion, and misses the vote anyway. And now he says he's rethinking the suspicion in light of Elo's flip. Idk, it might be a stretch but I could see it.

DF, why do you think you need to reconsider your suspicion of Nero based on the result?

She throws suspicion on DF for giving a weak case/comment on Nero, when she herself has given no case or strong, logical suspicion herself on Nero, yet keeps going after him as if she has done the opposite. She has throw light suspicion around that she can easily backtrack from, because she simply said it was a "gut read." Then there's this comment that irked me:

nutella wrote:RIP Matt.

JJJ, I have already explained my Nero vote. I know that it looks bad for me but I genuinely felt better about Elo.

Now this poll is weird...

DrumBeats wrote:And based on that idea, I have a question for everyone. EVERYONE SHOULD ANSWER THIS:

If that is the case, and the three available on the poll are one town, one mafia, and the Process, who do you think is each?

My opinion:
Town-MovingPictures07
Process-nijuukyugou
Mafia-Nerolunar

I agree with this completely, in the case that it is indeed one of each (I have no particular reason to think niju is the process, although Matt thought so, and she very well could be). I do think that MP is town and Nero is mafia. With that I'll go ahead and vote Nero

Where she tries to subtly throw suspicion my way, but also backtrack ("I have no reason..."), but also try to qualify it with "well, Matt thought so." Matt didn't think anything of the sort - he kept repeating his so-called suspicion to get a reaction from me. When I responded, he immediately dropped it. He never qualified it. It was that non-actual-hunting behavior that pissed Eloh off (or that she faked being pissed about), so it's not like it was something nutella would miss if she's reading the thread. If you look at any of her suspicions, none of them are elaborated upon until she's called out on it, and even then, there isn't much more elaboration - more exasperation than anything. She's dropping suspicions and hints, waiting for bites, or biting onto others' cases, but never making a hard case herself. Bad. Bad bad bad.

I still want to know why gleam voted for me with no explanation, as well.

That's about it for tonight. I need a shower and need to do some laundry, cleaning, etc. before trivia to prep for visitations. I'd cast my vote now, but I do like to give some defense time and see what others think.

I'm not concerned with Nutella's interaction with me about DF. I think some people might be taking that out of context, unless I am just misunderstanding what you guys are trying to get at. I was asking how Nutella could justify suspecting both since one of DF's only suspicion was on Nero - and Nutella then explained the suspicion was done in a way that could be a harmless distancing from a teammate.

Now that being said, I'm not convinced Nutella is town. I do find it weird the why the post was written to kind of go along with the idea that one was mafia/town/process, when Nutella didn't really suspect Niju.

nutella wrote:DF, thinking you were Nero's teammate was not at all my original reason. I had been separately suspicious of you already, and said as much, and then K4J asked me how I could reconcile suspecting both you and Nero given your suspicion of him, and I explained that I believed you could both be teammates, but my suspicion of you still stands after Nero's flip because it was not solely based on that.

Is it based on anything besides a gut feeling?

DF, my suspicion of you is partially due to your significantly greater volume of posting than usual, but is really mostly gut feeling, as have been most of my suspicions in this game. I know that I have not looked great and maybe I should back off from my mostly-gut-read suspicions since I was wrong about Nero, but I swear I have only been genuine in my opinions. I just sometimes get really strong gut suspicions of people that I can't really justify when people push me for detailed explanations, but they are strong enough to get my attention and vote especially when there aren't any more compelling reasons to vote for someone.

Niju, if there are any particular responses you want for me, ask away, I really would like to convince you that I'm not bad. As soon as I saw the flip on Elo I knew I would be a lynch candidate soon but I really just made a bad call in giving her a second chance and going with my gut. And I wouldn't be surprised if the people who jump on the weak and opportunistic "nutella is Elo's teammate" theory are Elo's actual teammates. I don't want to waste a lynch and I have probably one of the most powerful civ roles in the game so I hope you can see that I have really just been unfortunately making innocent mistakes so far.

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Scotty wrote:In a situation like this, I (Scotty) think that we should pressure the likes of Mac and Llama. They are around, but not. Dead, but talking.

nutella wrote:Niju, if there are any particular responses you want for me, ask away, I really would like to convince you that I'm not bad. As soon as I saw the flip on Elo I knew I would be a lynch candidate soon but I really just made a bad call in giving her a second chance and going with my gut. And I wouldn't be surprised if the people who jump on the weak and opportunistic "nutella is Elo's teammate" theory are Elo's actual teammates. I don't want to waste a lynch and I have probably one of the most powerful civ roles in the game so I hope you can see that I have really just been unfortunately making innocent mistakes so far.

niju made some points in the large post she most recently provided that I think you'd do well to address. They may not be questions, but they're accusatory and I think the argument is sound. It's not just your Nero vote that is suspicious, but also the preceding content that doesn't seem to foreshadow it at all.

Moreover, if you feel that you're being taken advantage of by opportunistic baddies, you should name specific players. Who among your detractors do you feel is most likely to be doing so with an ulterior motive?

thellama73 wrote:I still feel good about Wilgy and McDougall. I still feel bad about JJJ. He is a discussion steerer. MP is probably okay.

Sorry for not being more active, lads. Been busy with other things.

Yes, I am a discussion steerer. I steer discussions. Why is that bad? We've discussed at least once I believe outside this game how I feel a townie can be more productive from a position of leadership, and I like to lead through my analysis and the generation of content -- that often implies I am steering the game thread in some way or another. That doesn't mean I am restricting other players to doing what I say or to voting only for those I suspect, it means I am facilitating conversation. Point to a specific example in this game of me "steering discussion" in such a way that you believe my motives to be insincere.

I am a late replacement coming in off a hiatus, my lack of input is not meta definitive. In fact for the one person here who knows my meta well he has literally seen this (and commented in previous games about it), and yet I have seen him suggest I am suspicious (JimmyMcJamesMahBoy of course).

Anybody trying to push the narrative that I am bad because I am "dead, but not here" or whatever such flowery prose used should be looked at in a harsh light. It is lazy, mafiaesque straw clutching. Nobody is ever bad BECAUSE of this, incidentally sure... but not because of it.

OMGUS aside... I have nothing to report because I have not analysed much of the game and every time I make the most remote of scum reads they die (Matt, Wilgy). So what we have here is coincidence, or someone is trying to play a long game of discredit against your pal MacDougall.

I just placed 10 random posts in browser tabs and read them for sincerity and a post by nutella came up the worst. So let's lynch that person.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

thellama73 wrote:I still feel good about Wilgy and McDougall. I still feel bad about JJJ. He is a discussion steerer. MP is probably okay.

Sorry for not being more active, lads. Been busy with other things.

Yes, I am a discussion steerer. I steer discussions. Why is that bad? We've discussed at least once I believe outside this game how I feel a townie can be more productive from a position of leadership, and I like to lead through my analysis and the generation of content -- that often implies I am steering the game thread in some way or another. That doesn't mean I am restricting other players to doing what I say or to voting only for those I suspect, it means I am facilitating conversation. Point to a specific example in this game of me "steering discussion" in such a way that you believe my motives to be insincere.

It's not why is that bad, the question is how CAN that be bad. The answer is, it can be bad because having the primary influencer in the game steering discussion from the central position has a "hiding in plain sight effect." Now, you know this right.

I was not really very suspicious of you for what you are doing as much as I am always concerned about supertown Jimmy not being town. Forget the silly posts I've made, but this is a fair thing to be cautious about and I am sure when you see me supertowning away a part of you remains forever skeptical no matter what I am actually saying. It's always a prevailing concern with a player taking the dominant position.

A recent example of supertown Jimmy doing exactly what I fear he is doing here, was in the RYM game I played last. You won that game with your scum team with minimal casualties after I got mislynched for playing like a fool and fake claiming scum remember? You were playing that game just like this one. You also have played many civ games just like this one. So, in and of itself, the behaviour is not suspicion worthy, much less lynch worthy.

However, the post I am replying to overlooks this point completely. The way you structure your argument overlooks the fact that what you are doing is suspicious on merit and you are asking your adversary to do something you know is likely to trip them up. It's manipulative.

MacDougall wrote:I am a late replacement coming in off a hiatus, my lack of input is not meta definitive. In fact for the one person here who knows my meta well he has literally seen this (and commented in previous games about it), and yet I have seen him suggest I am suspicious (JimmyMcJamesMahBoy of course).

I haven't said that you're suspicious because you're not doing very much. I agree that sometimes you don't do very much. My suspicion of you has been related to the content of your predecessor, specifically as it pertains to Elohcin interactions, and the voting record of your player slot.

Dedicated to Mac and Jimmy

MacDougall wrote:I just placed 10 random posts in browser tabs and read them for sincerity and a post by nutella came up the worst. So let's lynch that person.

what does this mean

MacDougall wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

thellama73 wrote:I still feel good about Wilgy and McDougall. I still feel bad about JJJ. He is a discussion steerer. MP is probably okay.

Sorry for not being more active, lads. Been busy with other things.

Yes, I am a discussion steerer. I steer discussions. Why is that bad? We've discussed at least once I believe outside this game how I feel a townie can be more productive from a position of leadership, and I like to lead through my analysis and the generation of content -- that often implies I am steering the game thread in some way or another. That doesn't mean I am restricting other players to doing what I say or to voting only for those I suspect, it means I am facilitating conversation. Point to a specific example in this game of me "steering discussion" in such a way that you believe my motives to be insincere.

It's not why is that bad, the question is how CAN that be bad. The answer is, it can be bad because having the primary influencer in the game steering discussion from the central position has a "hiding in plain sight effect." Now, you know this right.

I was not really very suspicious of you for what you are doing as much as I am always concerned about supertown Jimmy not being town. Forget the silly posts I've made, but this is a fair thing to be cautious about and I am sure when you see me supertowning away a part of you remains forever skeptical no matter what I am actually saying. It's always a prevailing concern with a player taking the dominant position.

A recent example of supertown Jimmy doing exactly what I fear he is doing here, was in the RYM game I played last. You won that game with your scum team with minimal casualties after I got mislynched for playing like a fool and fake claiming scum remember? You were playing that game just like this one. You also have played many civ games just like this one. So, in and of itself, the behaviour is not suspicion worthy, much less lynch worthy.

However, the post I am replying to overlooks this point completely. The way you structure your argument overlooks the fact that what you are doing is suspicious on merit and you are asking your adversary to do something you know is likely to trip them up. It's manipulative.

Yes, it is possible to tinfoil on high-contributing players in a Mafia game. I have done that before and people have done it to me before. In the portion I highlighted, I prompted llama to show me what specific content in my "discussion steering" post history inspires his suspicion. There has to be something specific or else the accusation is exactly what you're saying it shouldn't be -- just that I am steering discussion and not how my "steering" is bad steering instead of good steering. If there is no distinction then it's a non-accusation. It's an observation, and llama delivered that observation alongside an assertion that I'm bad. To be "cautious" in the face of a high-contributing player is to engage that player in a productive way in an attempt to sort them out. I'm not getting that and I'm prompting it.

Why is that prompt inherently likely to trip someone up?

Because as I said, being a 'discussion steerer' as Llama said is suspicious without needing a specific post to reference and you could be playing odds to the fact that he has no specific evidence with a view to turning that into a case on him even though you agree that getting suspect of high vol players isn't a bad thing.

Better would have been to not question him over that since he doesn't need a reason, by your own logic.

Notwithstanding that I am just shuffling papers here and it really just means that nothing the three of us have said is really scummy at all. I just think you're a policy lynch.

Nutella though.

nutella wrote:

MacDougall wrote:I just placed 10 random posts in browser tabs and read them for sincerity and a post by nutella came up the worst. So let's lynch that person.

what does this mean

It means I surface read one of your posts as insincere.

Snapshot wrote:re//
errors fixed//

MacDougall wrote:I'm bad and need to be voted on. I'm not contributing and should be lynched. Sadly I am not on the poll.

You are dirt.

Wilgy is dead.

Matt is dead.

He thought I was bad.

He thought nutellex was bad.

My recent Mafia games I played a straight bat by killing those who suspect me.

I suggest a possibility that someone aware of this part of my game is responsible for their deaths with a view to framing me.

Someone very conscious indeed. I will weigh up the possible contenders maybe soon or maybe I will forget.

I'm on board with those who suspect nutella. She reads like a fake-fake.
Observe.

nutella wrote:I'm voting for Cell

I really want to help with my knowledge of the functions from the game but idk how well I can explain the mechanics or how thoroughly because I have very little time in the next couple days. Commencement is tomorrow and I am scheduled back to back with events and family and moving and traveling. I have maybe an hour relatively free now so I'll try to start writing up what I can.

"Guys, I want to help so bad! I'm so helpful!"

And then this chain:

nutella wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Cake Lady hasn't been here. Civ or mafia her lack of response to me seals the deal. I guess it's time.

Eloooooh

I'm inclined to agree. I'll be around for a little bit before the poll ends so I'll give her a chance to come in and say something, but so far she has ignored a lot of suspicion directed at her.

nutella wrote:Alright, I'm giving Eloh another chance and voting for Nerolunar because he is bad. Just a strong gut feeling that has emerged from his last several posts. I feel similarly about DF, and to a lesser extent llama.

nutella wrote:Sweet result! I guess my last-minute change of heart was misguided. I know that doesn't look good for me, but like Gleam when I reread Eloh she looked more genuine and was trying to defend herself. After her last response before my vote I kind of went back and forth on what I thought of it but I decided that my suspicion of Nero was stronger.

"OH yeah, the baddie looks kind of bad, but I'm not voting for her, but good job everyone else!"

In fact, why wait?
nutella

That's a good point, Llama. She brought up a weak suspicion of Elo but didn't act on it, thus allowing her to say "I suspected her too!" should Elo flip bad.

Coupled with my existing suspicion, and I think I'm comfortable *voting Nutella*

This Young Lady would like to hear YumYums response.
This Young Lady likes Kittycatmanic.
This Young Lady wonders if Pervert serves the Dark Master.
This Young Lady is unsure of the TrinidaDivian
This Young Lady is unsure of Beardy.

Joining the bandwagon!

What song are we playing, guys? How about a lovely dirge about the horrors of Nutella allergies?

nutella

This Young Lady wonders why Deady is voting for YumYum.