The Syndicate

Soneji wrote:

MacDougall wrote:

Long Con wrote:Hello, I did check my role PM before I came here.

Scotty wrote:Man, I would hate to be on your team if I were bad.

Yeah, Wilgy is already suspicious to me.

DrWilgy wrote:Yeah, I've decided that being blind will be my meme play this game.

Indeed.

Golden wrote:Voted melee island - that's always where the adventure starts. You can't cut right to the third act.

Good point. Same-same.

You are trying too hard.

Anti-intellectualism is a thing in this community too then.

Quin wrote:I self-voted for the sake of figuring out whether they're changeable or not. Votes are not changeable.

Good of you to take on that burden.

Soneji wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:

Soneji wrote:@Nacho : You look to rely a lot on an ability to townread and then use PoE, even this early. How much weight do you give to conscious vs unconscious scum moves? I have noticed that you approach people's posts as if you were scum in their shoes and make your read based on if you think they'd consciously post what they did with the proposed scum intent, in my experience this is rare.

Mafia generally don't purposely post as if they are mustache twirling villains even if it comes off that way in someones scumread. Their subconscious guilt is how these slips are made.

I think that most things that mafia post are unconscious, yes, but behind each unconscious post there are typically one of three guiding principles: 1) "I want to survive", 2) "I want to look town", 3) I want to lynch town. So when I say that something seems to lack scum motivation, it's because I don't think that a player would think that it doesn't push towards any one of those goals; when I say that I don't think that Metalmarsh would share his Day 1 goal of not being instantly lynched in thread, I don't think that this would be a conscious decision, I think that it's just something that he would feel uncomfortable doing. My argument for Quin being town isn't that they would sit down and weigh the advantages and disadvantages of self-voting versus not self-voting; it lies more along the lines of thinking that he would put some sort of thought before locking down one of his weapons against town so quickly and no lines of thought really point towards "no, self-vote".

Was there a argument in particular you were referring to when you made this post?

No one argument, you addressed the main two there.

Voting isn't a mafia weapon so much as it is town's. A lot of mafia players view voting as an inconvenience rather than a tool at their disposal and being freed from any pressure to vote is a blessing. Mind you, on the forum I come from I have never played a game where votes weren't changeable, mafia would be even more uncomfortable voting if they couldn't change. That they can't change weakens it's use as a weapon for them as well. The main point in Quin's favor to me is that the host wouldn't state if votes are final, forcing someone to vote to find out. Would have been preferable for him to vote a scumread but as is, hes not high up on potential lynch candidates.

Would you say your suspicion of Long Con stems from a differing view on if chaotic posts like Wilgy's are scummy? I don't see any way to look at Wilgy's post favorably. If he is telling the truth about not looking at his role PM, then he is going against the spirit of the rules and if he did get randomized scum, will not display the subconscious guilt that comes from one knowing they are scum. If he is lying then his motivation can only be to deceive or troll.

[VOTE: ] aubergine

Soneji wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Soneji wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:

Soneji wrote:[VOTE: @Nacho : You look to rely a lot on an ability to townread and then use PoE, even this early. How much weight do you give to conscious vs unconscious scum moves? I have noticed that you approach people's posts as if you were scum in their shoes and make your read based on if you think they'd consciously post what they did with the proposed scum intent, in my experience this is rare.

Mafia generally don't purposely post as if they are mustache twirling villains even if it comes off that way in someones scumread. Their subconscious guilt is how these slips are made.] aubergine

[VOTE:
I think that most things that mafia post are unconscious, yes, but behind each unconscious post there are typically one of three guiding principles: 1) "I want to survive", 2) "I want to look town", 3) I want to lynch town. So when I say that something seems to lack scum motivation, it's because I don't think that a player would think that it doesn't push towards any one of those goals; when I say that I don't think that Metalmarsh would share his Day 1 goal of not being instantly lynched in thread, I don't think that this would be a conscious decision, I think that it's just something that he would feel uncomfortable doing. My argument for Quin being town isn't that they would sit down and weigh the advantages and disadvantages of self-voting versus not self-voting; it lies more along the lines of thinking that he would put some sort of thought before locking down one of his weapons against town so quickly and no lines of thought really point towards "no, self-vote".

Was there a argument in particular you were referring to when you made this post?] aubergine

[VOTE:
No one argument, you addressed the main two there.

Voting isn't a mafia weapon so much as it is town's. A lot of mafia players view voting as an inconvenience rather than a tool at their disposal and being freed from any pressure to vote is a blessing. Mind you, on the forum I come from I have never played a game where votes weren't changeable, mafia would be even more uncomfortable voting if they couldn't change. That they can't change weakens it's use as a weapon for them as well. The main point in Quin's favor to me is that the host wouldn't state if votes are final, forcing someone to vote to find out. Would have been preferable for him to vote a scumread but as is, hes not high up on potential lynch candidates.

Would you say your suspicion of Long Con stems from a differing view on if chaotic posts like Wilgy's are scummy? I don't see any way to look at Wilgy's post favorably. If he is telling the truth about not looking at his role PM, then he is going against the spirit of the rules and if he did get randomized scum, will not display the subconscious guilt that comes from one knowing they are scum. If he is lying then his motivation can only be to deceive or troll.

[VOTE: ] aubergine] aubergine

[VOTE: [VOTE:

This is essentially a policy lynch vote. I don't like it. Give me something else to work with here, Soneji.] aubergine] aubergine

[VOTE: [VOTE:
This community must have a different definition of what a policy lynch is. On NF it is lynching someone who has proven time and again to offer nothing as a townie, without any posts that game that point to them being scum. Wilgy has already shown a pension for the chaotic this game and that makes him more likely scum than town.


I have posted about everything that has caught my eye so far, nor do I have reason to appeal to you in any manner.] aubergine] aubergine

Soneji wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Soneji wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Soneji wrote: [VOTE: [VOTE: No one argument, you addressed the main two there.

Voting isn't a mafia weapon so much as it is town's. A lot of mafia players view voting as an inconvenience rather than a tool at their disposal and being freed from any pressure to vote is a blessing. Mind you, on the forum I come from I have never played a game where votes weren't changeable, mafia would be even more uncomfortable voting if they couldn't change. That they can't change weakens it's use as a weapon for them as well. The main point in Quin's favor to me is that the host wouldn't state if votes are final, forcing someone to vote to find out. Would have been preferable for him to vote a scumread but as is, hes not high up on potential lynch candidates.

Would you say your suspicion of Long Con stems from a differing view on if chaotic posts like Wilgy's are scummy? I don't see any way to look at Wilgy's post favorably. If he is telling the truth about not looking at his role PM, then he is going against the spirit of the rules and if he did get randomized scum, will not display the subconscious guilt that comes from one knowing they are scum. If he is lying then his motivation can only be to deceive or troll.

[VOTE: ] aubergine] aubergine] aubergine

[VOTE: [VOTE: [VOTE:

This is essentially a policy lynch vote. I don't like it. Give me something else to work with here, Soneji.] aubergine] aubergine] aubergine

[VOTE: [VOTE: [VOTE:
This community must have a different definition of what a policy lynch is. On NF it is lynching someone who has proven time and again to offer nothing as a townie, without any posts that game that point to them being scum. Wilgy has already shown a pension for the chaotic this game and that makes him more likely scum than town.


I have posted about everything that has caught my eye so far, nor do I have reason to appeal to you in any manner.] aubergine] aubergine] aubergine

[VOTE: [VOTE: [VOTE:

I disagree with your conclusion here. Why is his behavior not town compatible?

You're my sole mafia read, which means you would receive my vote right now if we had changeable votes or the deadline was soon. How is that not a compelling reason to appeal to me?] aubergine] aubergine] aubergine

[VOTE: [VOTE: [VOTE:
More likely scum than town=/=not town compatible. You say in your next post that illogical, weird and chaotic generally haven't been signs of scum in your experience and I would agree with two of those three. Weird and/or seemingly illogical posters have gotten mislynched on NF on average and I usually have fought against those lynches. Chaotic however has flipped mafia more often and is a general detriment to the game. As I explained earlier, Wilgy's claim can only be trollish, deceptive or disruptive...nothing townish to find.

I will defend my position on my vote but your post came off as wanting me to put together more reads, which I won't be doing at this time as I have already given my thoughts on everything I intend to. You are used to rainbow reads and frequent town lists here, even in the early game. On NF it isn't all that uncommon for people to have town reads but it is not how I operate, I have no town reads just varying levels of scumreads. I focus mainly on a few people at a time early on while taking note of what others are doing, sometimes you need to wait before launching your attack or else your prey will clamp up before you have a strong case.] aubergine] aubergine] aubergine

Soneji wrote:[VOTE: [VOTE: [VOTE: Not fully caught up but Epi and MP would be my top suspects at the moment. MP's vote on motel room can certainly be attributed to self preservation, yet with all the time he spent making posts d1, he didn't make any push against anyone. No courage of conviction. More then that, his response to Epi's rainbow analysis was pretty blown out of proportion, a tl;dr defense against what was a pretty ridiculous analysis by Epi.

That ridiculous analysis plus him going after an inactive at this point in the game is why I suspect Epignosis. The analysis seems more like a premeditated move than having an epiphany and pursuing it with fervor, by the way in which it was written and it being on a day one that was noticeably barebones in terms of reads. Even if his general findings were true and he did happen to notice this pattern specifically, hinging on it D1 is folly. Better to let MP continue what hes doing and get him with more concrete evidence later, then let him weasel out of your weak reasoning and straighten his act.

It is possible they are both scum, one pirate, one cannibal. MP's high volume of posts certainly lend itself towards a larger chance of slipping.

[VOTE: ] aubergine] aubergine] aubergine] aubergine