The Syndicate

Interesting about Elohcin accusing Snow of being too civ. I had missed that in your case against her. I am really not sure here though. i think that either LT or elohcin is bad, but really not sure which direction to go.

LT
Russ

MovingPictures07 wrote:
Elo, it's not that you emphasized being civvie, it's that you led a lynch on Snow Dog given the reason that he seemed to be trying TOO hard to convince everyone was civvie, and then I ironically observed that you seemed to be doing the exact same thing.

I don't understand why you were thinking of me, was it because of the other game? Also, it was Minecraft, not Twin Peaks, and I'll admit to being a huge bowl of fail that game (and I specifically referenced it at least once earlier when talking to S~V~S -- I do NOT want to make mistakes like those again -- I have railroaded enough fellow civvies as civvies for my mafia career).

It's sometimes not that simple. I frankly can't tell LT one way or the other right now, but I do entertain she could be laying low. That being said, I've played games with her for years, and whether she posts a lot or a little... it doesn't exactly correlate to whether she's good or bad. Just because you've had BTSC with someone in one game and they were civvie and then they seem "different" in another it does not necessarily mean they are bad. It could, but there are many factors at play, including IRL, how many games the player is in, if they are hosting any games, etc. etc.

I believe I'm allowed to post

MP, the only thing I said about being civvie (I believe) was after someone in the thread said they thought of me as civvie (don't remember who). And, all I said was that I was glad to be civvie and be seen as civvie. I guess it was minecraft where you had me pegged at baddie when I was civvie, you could be right. You could also be right about LT, but I just get the sense that she is bad. And, if you don't want to make a mistake about my allegience (as you did in minecraft) then you ought to trust me as civ.

I'm getting ready to leave, so I don't have time to figure out which names to post. I won;t throw just any names out because I wouldn't want to silence someone that I think should be able to talk, so I guess I won't write any names. Sorry, Epi.

Anymore thoughts on who we should freeze the longest? This goes till noon tomorrow I believe Epi said. I think it's pretty clear who Llama is to many and if we could really use him buying a 1 up. I would support keeping llama frozen hoping the extra prize helps him.

Lizzy
Roxy

I think I've missed something as I have no idea who llama is, but I'm fine with keeping him frozen since you and lizzy seem to trust him.

Russ
BWT

Ok, then llama it is. Now i just have to go back and count and see whether he's frozen or unfrozen.

Bwt
Russ

Okay, I'll unfreeze our other two deadies then, so that they will be able to talk.


Snowy
Gleam

Llama is still at 7 mentions so he should be frozen. Heres a question, both Mongoose and Vomps mentioned having a a suit or item, but can you still have the items even if you are bad? You cant use them if bad, but I need to read and see if you can still bid or win them. What do others think?

Lizzy
Russ

Ooooh good point there, Hedgie.

An OT question -- is anyone else having trouble with their PMs? I have a big ole queue of messages sitting in my outbox (in lieu of my Sent Box). I'm going to send one to you know, Hedge since you are online-ish, tell me if you get it if you don't mind

Lizzy
Russti

Pretend this is green:

Success! Had that happen to me last week where a message sat for a day. Then is went through.

Roxy
LT

thanks for figuring everything out - and daisy you were right I should have sent a PM I am sorry.

Lizzy - I am still sick unfortunately but thanks for the well wishes.

and to clarify to those having trouble with PMs - Your PM will sit in the outbox until it is opened by whomever you sent it too. So if you send me a PM it may sit overnight in your outbox until I open it. I hope this helps.

I like the idea of keeping Snow frozen longest tbh

It seems logical to keep snow frozen because otherwise it would melt.

Lizzy
Russ

Thats what I wondered if Roxy meant. It certainly is more logical to freeze Snow. I guess no one really wants a frozen dead llama hanging around. Its a little creepy and kinda ruins the party.

Lizzy
Gleam

So I'm assuming it doesn't matter much which names we post as long as they're not snowy?

Lizzy
Bullz

It shouldnt matter at this point unless one on them suddenly decides they want to post and they are frozen. So i am just going to keeping using the same names. Right now we have Llama frozen. So he is currently leading the frozen longest category I would assume. Do you want to change to Snowy?

Also, who are we suspecting? I know its Night, so maybe people dont want to discuss it? I keep making my suspect list and then realize it basically almost all the people in the game.

Lizzy
Gleam

Snowy and Gleam are confirmed civs. I still don't know who llama is but apparently someone else does? I'm fine with keeping llama frozen if you know he's a civ.

Hedgeowl wrote:Heres a question, both Mongoose and Vomps mentioned having a a suit or item, but can you still have the items even if you are bad? You cant use them if bad, but I need to read and see if you can still bid or win them. What do others think?

I won the tail thingy and it took me off the poll, so I'm hoping that proves I'm not bad.

Bullz
Russ

Hedgeowl wrote:It shouldnt matter at this point unless one on them suddenly decides they want to post and they are frozen. So i am just going to keeping using the same names. Right now we have Llama frozen. So he is currently leading the frozen longest category I would assume. Do you want to change to Snowy?

Also, who are we suspecting? I know its Night, so maybe people dont want to discuss it? I keep making my suspect list and then realize it basically almost all the people in the game.

Lizzy
Gleam

Hedge- Whose powers do you think are better suited to help us defeat baddies at this point in the game, Snowy's or Llama's (based on what you suspect they are, without outing him)

Lizzy
Gleam

I hope so too. Thats what I was trying to establish. Could you and Mongoose be trusted based on your proven removal from the poll and items needed to do that? I also wonder why only 3 of us even participated in this event? Seems in the best interest of baddies to earn coins as well. Curious.


Linki - definitely llama, thats why they killed him I think.

Lizzy
Gleam

^ In that case it's probably best if we keep llama frozen.

Lizzy
Bullz

Does anyone know if Snowy is frozen or not? Let's make sure Llama is indeed the longest one frozen at this point.

I wonder if we have inadvertently left some players frozen and that's why they aren't talking.

Snowy
Lizzy

llama
snowy

Day 5: Pipe Land

Enemies:






It is now Day 5. You have 24 hours to lynch someone.

you cannot guarantee llama is civ I can guarantee Snow is.
linky kk Epig thanks

\o/ yay for the Air Kings removal of Lizzy from todays poll

Vompatti wrote:Snowy and Gleam are confirmed civs. I still don't know who llama is but apparently someone else does? I'm fine with keeping llama frozen if you know he's a civ.

Hedgeowl wrote:Heres a question, both Mongoose and Vomps mentioned having a a suit or item, but can you still have the items even if you are bad? You cant use them if bad, but I need to read and see if you can still bid or win them. What do others think?

I won the tail thingy and it took me off the poll, so I'm hoping that proves I'm not bad.

Bullz
Russ

I think I know who Llama is, and if I'm right, it's not hard to guess if you know what to look for. I don't agree with outing people (civ or bad) though so I'll say no more.

Hedgeowl wrote:Llama is still at 7 mentions so he should be frozen. Heres a question, both Mongoose and Vomps mentioned having a a suit or item, but can you still have the items even if you are bad? You cant use them if bad, but I need to read and see if you can still bid or win them. What do others think?

Lizzy
Russ

If baddies can't use items I really don't see why they'd bother bidding for them. They need to save their coins for roles don't they? It would make more sense to save up for the powerful killing roles rather than waste coins on stuff they can't use just to keep it out of civvie hands. As far as Vomp hoping that his suit proves he isn't bad, there's no proof he's telling the truth (Not that I see a reason to doubt him, I'm just saying).

Mongoose wrote:Is anyone else wondering why Llama's role wasn't revealed to us? Something is afoot. It could just be a condition of the Vote Switch function of Birdo maybe?

Lizzy
Bullz

Probably to do with Birdo. If it is, I wonder if his role was revealed to the baddies or not.

It doesn't look like anyone else is missing from the poll. Can someone confirm?

11 on the poll, 12 alive. Yeah Lizzy is the only person off it today.

I agree Bullz that baddies probably wouldnt waste the coins, especially not knowing what the suits do and the other items must be won, so only makes sense to go civ there. If someone was a baddie it would also be risky to claim that you had something, when someone else that actually had it could counter so easily.

I take it Roxy, you were planning a Lizzy vote today?

Also why no NK again I wonder? Isn't that Bowser's power? Maybe lots of blocks hence they bought Birdo to secure a lynch. I was protected last night because I had the Hammer suit, which makes me wonder if others were also protected or if I was potentially a failed NK?

We think Llama was killed for his possible ability, but he also voted Roxy, and was suspecting MP. I also think Bullz is a good candidate to examine. We are only 12 and 4 are baddies, so we really need to lynch one today.


Vomps and Mongoose! I think we need to divide and conquer. I plan on rereading Bullz, MP, Roxy, and Vomps. Why dont you Mongoose, read me and three others, and vomps you read mongoose and the last three. If we post thorough examinations of each we may ferret out something in the next 24 hours.

Hedgeowl wrote:I agree Bullz that baddies probably wouldnt waste the coins, especially not knowing what the suits do and the other items must be won, so only makes sense to go civ there. If someone was a baddie it would also be risky to claim that you had something, when someone else that actually had it could counter so easily.

I take it Roxy, you were planning a Lizzy vote today?

Also why no NK again I wonder? Isn't that Bowser's power? Maybe lots of blocks hence they bought Birdo to secure a lynch. I was protected last night because I had the Hammer suit, which makes me wonder if others were also protected or if I was potentially a failed NK?

We think Llama was killed for his possible ability, but he also voted Roxy, and was suspecting MP. I also think Bullz is a good candidate to examine. We are only 12 and 4 are baddies, so we really need to lynch one today.


Vomps and Mongoose! I think we need to divide and conquer. I plan on rereading Bullz, MP, Roxy, and Vomps. Why dont you Mongoose, read me and three others, and vomps you read mongoose and the last three. If we post thorough examinations of each we may ferret out something in the next 24 hours.

Well Bowser's role description says he has one NK. So I'm guessing that's literal and his kill already happened. I also agree with you that it'd be risky for a baddie to claim they'd bought a suit when they hadn't, I was just throwing it out there with Vomp and don't actually find him suspicious at all really. What is it that makes you so trusting of him and Mongoose though?

Ugh, this time change on the posts is really messing me up. I hope my time shortage will be resolved in the next day or two...

Anyway, for now, I am eyeing Elo.

She has said she thinks I am bad for non-reasons - all of her accusations are based on me being quiet, which I have explained ad nauseum. She also says that I knew this was a 24hr game when I have stated multiple times that I did not. I gave the rundown of when I joined the game, and she insists that she knows me well enough to know that I am lying about what I said. Sorry, Elo, you do not know me well at all yet. She has no other actual reasons. If I had more time, I would post more. But I haven't had time. Hopefully, that is going to change soon. As an aside, I am also in another game - and also not posting much. I have limited time!!!! I also have other activities that I do in the few hours I have available. I haven't even had time to create a spreadsheet for this game!

What I think she is doing is a classic baddie activity, seed the thread with fake suspicion so that a name is mentioned multiple times and then this gets votes rolling in.

I am absolutely convinced that she is bad.

In fact, I am voting her now so I don't miss the vote *votes Elo*

Hedgeowl wrote:Vomps and Mongoose! I think we need to divide and conquer. I plan on rereading Bullz, MP, Roxy, and Vomps. Why dont you Mongoose, read me and three others, and vomps you read mongoose and the last three. If we post thorough examinations of each we may ferret out something in the next 24 hours.

Do I have to? Why me? Please don't make me do it, I can't handle that kind of responsibility!

I'll reread you, SVS, and Russti - all people I've thought were (and still think are) Civ. I will try to confirm those feelings or see if I see anything that looks out of place. Also will try to figure out who I think Llama was for myself.

Vompatti wrote:

Hedgeowl wrote:Vomps and Mongoose! I think we need to divide and conquer. I plan on rereading Bullz, MP, Roxy, and Vomps. Why dont you Mongoose, read me and three others, and vomps you read mongoose and the last three. If we post thorough examinations of each we may ferret out something in the next 24 hours.

Do I have to? Why me? Please don't make me do it, I can't handle that kind of responsibility!

Of course you dont have to. This is afterall a game.

You could reread Lizzy, but since she is off the poll today might not be so helpful.

Hedgeowl wrote:

Vompatti wrote:

Hedgeowl wrote:Vomps and Mongoose! I think we need to divide and conquer. I plan on rereading Bullz, MP, Roxy, and Vomps. Why dont you Mongoose, read me and three others, and vomps you read mongoose and the last three. If we post thorough examinations of each we may ferret out something in the next 24 hours.

Do I have to? Why me? Please don't make me do it, I can't handle that kind of responsibility!

Of course you dont have to. This is afterall a game.

You could reread Lizzy, but since she is off the poll today might not be so helpful.

Will you think I'm bad if I don't reread anyone? I'm not bad, I'm just lazy.

I'm turely happy that Lizzy is off the poll.

Vompatti wrote:

Hedgeowl wrote:

Vompatti wrote:

Hedgeowl wrote:Vomps and Mongoose! I think we need to divide and conquer. I plan on rereading Bullz, MP, Roxy, and Vomps. Why dont you Mongoose, read me and three others, and vomps you read mongoose and the last three. If we post thorough examinations of each we may ferret out something in the next 24 hours.

Do I have to? Why me? Please don't make me do it, I can't handle that kind of responsibility!

Of course you dont have to. This is afterall a game.

You could reread Lizzy, but since she is off the poll today might not be so helpful.

Will you think I'm bad if I don't reread anyone? I'm not bad, I'm just lazy.

I'm turely happy that Lizzy is off the poll.

Why do you think I am saving MP for last?

Hedgeowl wrote:

Vompatti wrote:

Hedgeowl wrote:

Vompatti wrote:

Hedgeowl wrote:Vomps and Mongoose! I think we need to divide and conquer. I plan on rereading Bullz, MP, Roxy, and Vomps. Why dont you Mongoose, read me and three others, and vomps you read mongoose and the last three. If we post thorough examinations of each we may ferret out something in the next 24 hours.

Do I have to? Why me? Please don't make me do it, I can't handle that kind of responsibility!

Of course you dont have to. This is afterall a game.

You could reread Lizzy, but since she is off the poll today might not be so helpful.

Will you think I'm bad if I don't reread anyone? I'm not bad, I'm just lazy.

I'm turely happy that Lizzy is off the poll.

Why do you think I am saving MP for last?

I don't know, why?

I think you and Mongoose (and obviously myself and Lizzy) are almost certainly good, and I think I trust Roxy slightly more than any of the others.

Hedgeowl wrote:I agree Bullz that baddies probably wouldnt waste the coins, especially not knowing what the suits do and the other items must be won, so only makes sense to go civ there. If someone was a baddie it would also be risky to claim that you had something, when someone else that actually had it could counter so easily.

I take it Roxy, you were planning a Lizzy vote today?

Also why no NK again I wonder? Isn't that Bowser's power? Maybe lots of blocks hence they bought Birdo to secure a lynch. I was protected last night because I had the Hammer suit, which makes me wonder if others were also protected or if I was potentially a failed NK?

We think Llama was killed for his possible ability, but he also voted Roxy, and was suspecting MP. I also think Bullz is a good candidate to examine. We are only 12 and 4 are baddies, so we really need to lynch one today.


Vomps and Mongoose! I think we need to divide and conquer. I plan on rereading Bullz, MP, Roxy, and Vomps. Why dont you Mongoose, read me and three others, and vomps you read mongoose and the last three. If we post thorough examinations of each we may ferret out something in the next 24 hours.

How did you deduce from my post that I wanted to vote Lizzy???

tbh I thought `\o/ yay The Air King took Lizzy off the poll` signifed that I was happy about it :/

I am looking at Elohcin and Owl who has been making my nose twitch tbqh

Owl seems to be repeatedly trying to paint me as bad. wtf is up with that?

As of right now I am planning to vote Elohcin but there are a couple people I am currently reading so that could change.

linky Vomp thanks I am thinking you are civ as well right now

Roxy wrote:

Hedgeowl wrote:I agree Bullz that baddies probably wouldnt waste the coins, especially not knowing what the suits do and the other items must be won, so only makes sense to go civ there. If someone was a baddie it would also be risky to claim that you had something, when someone else that actually had it could counter so easily.

I take it Roxy, you were planning a Lizzy vote today?

Also why no NK again I wonder? Isn't that Bowser's power? Maybe lots of blocks hence they bought Birdo to secure a lynch. I was protected last night because I had the Hammer suit, which makes me wonder if others were also protected or if I was potentially a failed NK?

We think Llama was killed for his possible ability, but he also voted Roxy, and was suspecting MP. I also think Bullz is a good candidate to examine. We are only 12 and 4 are baddies, so we really need to lynch one today.


Vomps and Mongoose! I think we need to divide and conquer. I plan on rereading Bullz, MP, Roxy, and Vomps. Why dont you Mongoose, read me and three others, and vomps you read mongoose and the last three. If we post thorough examinations of each we may ferret out something in the next 24 hours.

How did you deduce from my post that I wanted to vote Lizzy???

tbh I thought `\o/ yay The Air King took Lizzy off the poll` signifed that I was happy about it :/

I am looking at Elohcin and Owl who has been making my nose twitch tbqh

Owl seems to be repeatedly trying to paint me as bad. wtf is up with that?

As of right now I am planning to vote Elohcin but there are a couple people I am currently reading so that could change.

linky Vomp thanks I am thinking you are civ as well right now

I read your post about as Lizzy as sarcastic, because you did vote for her before. If your opinion has changed thats fine.

Am I trying to paint you as bad? I mentioned you Day 1, but it was Day 1 and then you came up as one of 5 Lizzy voters. I even said you were one of the łeast suspicious of them. I am just rereading people, so the fact that your nose twitches because I picked you (and 3 others) to reread is going to make my read of you later more careful. There are only 12 people in this game, so people s names are going to come up as suspects. Cant be helped.

Roxy wrote:sorry for being quiet I am quite ill tbh I have been sleeping crazy amounts.

When I woke to find I was made a Goomba which I thought said Goober but Epig has since clarified for me. Its so frustrating that my vote will not count. I am happy to see people discussing their suspicions a bit more. I havent fully read back on everything but I wanted to respond to Elohcin and Russ

Elohcin- I was surprised by your quick jump to decide to vote LT without really adding more to the suspicion yourself. I understand you have played a game with her and had btsc with her but a lot of us have played many games with her and also had btsc with her and we have been telling you that we are not seeing anything suspicion atm. Instead of expanding your suspicion or adding more to it or finding another suspicion of someone else you keep driving your point home - why ??? She is not even on this poll and tbs I am glad about it.

Russ - out of the votes yours felt very drive by-ish. It was like you logged on and jumped on the first thing and voted. Like Elohcin but worse b/c you did not discuss LT at all nor give her time to respond to you. You just latched onto someone elses misguided suspicion and voted with no thoughts of your own. Something I always find very suspicious.

I will vote for one of you two but I want everyone to know that I am goomba-ed and it will not count which totes sucks.
Oh it also prevents me from buying anything to help my dilemma.

Day 4 sucks and not in the good way.

Ok, so from reading Roxy this is a little summary. She pointed out early water voters, suspected llama for voting Snow, adds nev, bullz, and Mp to her suspect list. She suspects Lizzy when Lizzy isn't participating, but once Lizzy jumps in and starts participating more this seesm to satisfy her. What was the change for you on Lizzy Roxy?

The above post is the defense of LT when Elohcin & mongoose make a case on her and then calls Russti out for his drive by vote. She questions the lack good evidence against LT. Now of course the grass King could have turned anyone into a goomba, bad or civ, so I cant really make a good call here based on that.

As for Roxy's voting history, she votes Llama (random), Lizzy, Mongoose (partly in defense of LT?) missed vote (she was almost tied with Elohcin, but llama was lynched by Birdo?).

So in summary, yeah there are definitely a few thing here that look suspicious, but not currently damning. What changed your mind about Lizzy, who do you plan to vote for today, if MP and Bullz were on your suspect list are they still? Why is everyone who mentions you put on your suspect list? MP, llama, mongoose, and me in this case.

I don't currently think from my reread that Rox is bad, but reading anyone in this game brings up questions. I am going to be posting about Bullz later when I get a chance.

I'm not particularly suspicious of Roxy atm. How are you feeling by the way - are you better yet, R?Thanks for explaining the Outbox situation.

I'm looking forward to seeing a good analysis on Bullz. And bwt.

Hedgeowl, I look forward to seeing more of your thoughts after re-read. I was supposed to have a concert tonight which would have made this vote impossible for me to be informed, but unfortunately it was cancelled. That being said, I should probably take this opportunity to study more GMAT (which I started this past weekend), because I really need to do well on it. I'll definitely have to vote tonight as apparently I don't have enough time in the mornings.

I could see an Elo or Russ vote today. I still think they are our best bets currently. I probably need to do a re-read myself but don't have the proper time -- maybe this weekend will allot such time.

Rox, could you elaborate on your feelings about Hedgeowl? I had some off feelings from her very early on, then they mostly faded, but I have to say her post where she singles out Vomps and Mongoose to help her re-read players was weird. Even though I am really looking forward to her input, it just read kind of strange to me, not even necessarily suspicious -- but I know you can have astute observations, so I'm curious what your thoughts are.

I do wonder about Vomps, Lizzy, Bullz, and/or Hedgeowl in the back of my mind. I really think at least one or two are baddie, and the odds would probably agree with me, but I have nothing more than mostly gut or anything I've previously outlined. I don't think it's as strong as the thoughts on Elo or Russ at the moment.

Mongoose, I have to say based on thread behavior and just my gut (which maybe isn't to be trusted, but it is what it is, and it has some credence), you, S~V~S, and Rox are most likely seeming to be civvie to me this game. What makes you say that you are seeing a civvie Russ (or even Rox or S~V~S, on which we agree)? I might have missed where you explained if you had specific reasons for that, so if I did, sorry.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Hedgeowl, I look forward to seeing more of your thoughts after re-read. I was supposed to have a concert tonight which would have made this vote impossible for me to be informed, but unfortunately it was cancelled. That being said, I should probably take this opportunity to study more GMAT (which I started this past weekend), because I really need to do well on it. I'll definitely have to vote tonight as apparently I don't have enough time in the mornings.

I could see an Elo or Russ vote today. I still think they are our best bets currently. I probably need to do a re-read myself but don't have the proper time -- maybe this weekend will allot such time.

Rox, could you elaborate on your feelings about Hedgeowl? I had some off feelings from her very early on, then they mostly faded, but I have to say her post where she singles out Vomps and Mongoose to help her re-read players was weird. Even though I am really looking forward to her input, it just read kind of strange to me, not even necessarily suspicious -- but I know you can have astute observations, so I'm curious what your thoughts are.

I do wonder about Vomps, Lizzy, Bullz, and/or Hedgeowl in the back of my mind. I really think at least one or two are baddie, and the odds would probably agree with me, but I have nothing more than mostly gut or anything I've previously outlined. I don't think it's as strong as the thoughts on Elo or Russ at the moment.

Mongoose, I have to say based on thread behavior and just my gut (which maybe isn't to be trusted, but it is what it is, and it has some credence), you, S~V~S, and Rox are most likely seeming to be civvie to me this game. What makes you say that you are seeing a civvie Russ (or even Rox or S~V~S, on which we agree)? I might have missed where you explained if you had specific reasons for that, so if I did, sorry.

Based upon voting patterns in the World Map, I think I know who SVS is. Based on the fact that Vomp revealed he had a suit (and then I had a P-wing), that leads to me to think someone good is protecting LT. I may have just missed the case on Russti? I know he was called out for what was seen as a drive-by voting, but I figured 1) he trusts me as civ in this game, and 2) we tend to analyze things the same way (although he much more articulately), so if he thinks I made a good argument for something/someone, he might be inclined to vote for that person (LT in this case) without duplicative explanations. I hope that made sense.

I add: the way I feel about everyone in this game (except Hedge) is very fluid. There is some excellent mafia'ing going on in this game.

MovingPictures07 wrote: Rox, could you elaborate on your feelings about Hedgeowl? I had some off feelings from her very early on, then they mostly faded, but I have to say her post where she singles out Vomps and Mongoose to help her re-read players was weird. Even though I am really looking forward to her input, it just read kind of strange to me, not even necessarily suspicious -- but I know you can have astute observations, so I'm curious what your thoughts are.

I will hopefully get back to Bullz this evening. We will see if I get time for Vomps and MP before noon.

To address the oddness of why I singled out Vomps and Mongoose. I thought i had obviously tried to establish for myself that they were likely civvie based on their use of items to remove themselves from the lynch vote. There are other reasons they could have been removed, but only civs can use items, so seemed the most logical thing at the time. It also occured to me that if one could organize supposed civs we could cover a lot more material. Granted this is not a fool proof plan, but I cant actually review 11 people myself. And none of us really has the time for that. Ideally, you'd have two people rereading one person to catch any inconsistencies in argument etc. However, I doubt we'd get many volunteers for that, since people seem pretty busy.

I will also be pretty busy myself this weekend, so have to do it while I have time.

Hedgeowl wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote: Rox, could you elaborate on your feelings about Hedgeowl? I had some off feelings from her very early on, then they mostly faded, but I have to say her post where she singles out Vomps and Mongoose to help her re-read players was weird. Even though I am really looking forward to her input, it just read kind of strange to me, not even necessarily suspicious -- but I know you can have astute observations, so I'm curious what your thoughts are.

I will hopefully get back to Bullz this evening. We will see if I get time for Vomps and MP before noon.

To address the oddness of why I singled out Vomps and Mongoose. I thought i had obviously tried to establish for myself that they were likely civvie based on their use of items to remove themselves from the lynch vote. There are other reasons they could have been removed, but only civs can use items, so seemed the most logical thing at the time. It also occured to me that if one could organize supposed civs we could cover a lot more material. Granted this is not a fool proof plan, but I cant actually review 11 people myself. And none of us really has the time for that. Ideally, you'd have two people rereading one person to catch any inconsistencies in argument etc. However, I doubt we'd get many volunteers for that, since people seem pretty busy.

I will also be pretty busy myself this weekend, so have to do it while I have time.

True, but I'm not so quick to declare someone to be civvie just because they were removed from the poll, especially since there were three removed at once.

I get that, but why not just ask for people's opinions? I don't know, I understand your elaboration, and thank you for that, but it just strikes me as a bit odd to single two other players out as more knowlegeable than others just because you think they are civvie (you could be wrong, or even if you aren't, it doesn't mean they always are right because they are civvie).

I have to vote now, I guess, otherwise I will miss the damn vote again. I'm going to stick with my gut and vote Elo because she CLEARLY led the lynch against Snow Dog using that exact logic that he was trying to seem too civvie (which was silly to begin with) and then clearly exhibited that same behavior later on. While I appreciate her explanation, I think that inconsistency is just too much for me, AND in addition to other items (see: below bullets), so that's where I'm voting. There's nothing like that with Russ that really sticks out so strongly as Elo's inconsistency described above, so I suppose I'm waiting on him due to that and because Elo already has a vote (and I don't want to see either of them not lynched ANOTHER day now), but I definitely still feel solid willies in his direction due to several reasons. I think someone asked about that case, which I will try and summarize:

- More than a few were chiming in that Russ 'seemed civvie' without giving much reason at all, and he received the most votes of anyone during the night minigame to receive coins, even though we have no idea of knowing his alignment. The way that poll went down still bothers me for that reason. That's another strike against Elo as well, that some seemed so willing to give her coins -- especially since it's not even like with llama where his role seemed able to be deduced, even if there was possibly another option, occam's razor suggests an explanation for him. I don't see any such one for players giving trust to Elo or Russ. If it's because they seem 'helpful', they both always seem that way, IMO.

- There's no denying that Russ was perhaps trying to claim the Giant King role, and I do not believe that to be true based on how votes have gone down.

- His reasons for his votes seems off and is far from satisfactory to me, especially his bandwagon onto LT and ever since his initial voting for me on Day 1 and then backing off. Again, this is another item that applies to Elo. I still don't get how anyone could tell LT's alignment based on what she was saying and it baffles me that others found her arguments persuasive.

votes Elo.

But I'm fine with a Russ lynch as well for reasons stated above. I'd be surprised if neither of these players were baddie, but I suppose it's a possibility I still entertain. That being said, given I haven't had any other time to go back and search through the thread and I can't wait for any more analysis from other players out of fear for missing the vote again, this is the strongest thing I have.