The Syndicate

cayvie wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:40 pm okay. i keep feeling like this game is in limbo, waiting to see if there's gonna be a gladiatorial contest or what. i'm gonna finish my interactive analyses with UG.

Marcher Jovian wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:41 pm

cassowary wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:03 am I concur with Neutron on the futility of tone-reading PSI. (Pedit: but I disagree w/ him on U-G's posts coming from town)

I don't really know how to respond to the description of my playstyle as "reactive" or "trying to blend in." I mean, yes, I am reacting to stuff in the thread and giving my thoughts on it. And if I'm trying to blend, I'm apparently doing a terrible job at it.

Truth be told, I'm generally pretty bad at d1 stuff -- I usually don't really know what to say early on, I tend to do better with solving-type stuff in the later game. And I'm definitely feeling that hard right now.

I guess here's thoughts:

I feel like chardonnay and carotenoid in particular have been pushing me hard into "consensus scumread" territory based on mostly "I just feel like cassowary's posts have a weird tone"-type stuff, which I don't really know how to defend against, but it feels kind of like something you can say without much to back it up.

I stand by my LC vote at the time, and I still find his... aggressive response to suspicions of him a little strange, but also I don't know him and maybe this is just how he is always? The people who know him don't seem concerned, at least.

U-G continues to seem nervous. That paranoid response to the post that wasn't about him was very strange, and this isn't really the kind of tone I normally see from him. I can definitely see these posts coming from a U-G who's nervous at rolling scum on a new site with a bunch of people he doesn't know.

Regarding Jiwon, it's unfortunate that he hasn't contributed literally anything, but in my recent experience that doesn't really mean anything as regards alignment. (It's just Cave of the Past all over again...) So I'm wary of casting a vote based purely on shitpostiness because I've led that charge in the past and been horribly wrong.

I am going to sleep but will be back tomorrow morning before EOD. I'm going to move my vote onto U-G so I'm at least putting it to slightly more productive use??

[VOTE: Ultimate-Gamer] aubergine

underlined reads like a wolf unhappy that they can't just get away with an easy policy-esque vote
underlined italicized reads like a wolf preemptively trying to avoid getting blamed for a vote on town

[VOTE: cassowary] aubergine

Ultimate-Gamer wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2020 5:23 pm PSINE calling Cayvie out feels.... Odd? Like, not scummy odd but more like "I'm out of my element and kinda making things up as I go and things are escalating because of it"??? It's hard to explain.

What I DO think is scum PSINE would have dropped the issue sooner if she were scum imo. Like I don't think it'd be wise to call so much attention to herself wheen she didn't have to, and I think she knows that.

I CAN see scum neutron SEEING that interaction and seeing an opportunity to cast shade.

That's all from just an iso of Nooter. so, like, SLIGHT scum reads here? But I wanna iso PSINE as well and get a bigger picture here

Ultimate-Gamer wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:21 pm

chardonnay wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:07 pm

Ultimate-Gamer wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2020 5:58 pm

chardonnay wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2020 5:48 pm

DJ Neutron Star wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2020 5:34 pm @chardonnay
can i confirm why you're voting cassowary? you haven't said much immediately about them outside of 'something' feeling off and currently disagreeing with their PSINE read

forcing a read that they weren't really confidant in, (PSINightmare).

Oh shit I just did that huh

Yeah I didn't want my FIRST iso to be a null read so I kinda put a gun to my head and said "Nooter slightly scummy" even though it's closer to null.

I mean... there's nothing inhertly wrong with forcing a read for the sake of content generation. Its more when its done for the sake of not standing out.

Im not sure what to make of you lamp shading your own actions so quickly UG haha. You seem pretty ill at ease rn.

Oh yeah I'm absolutely ill at ease. This is a new game on an unfamiliar site, with new people I've never played. I am anxious as FUCK rn even outside of game stuff.

So I'm kinda, just talking. I'm just gonna kinda say whatever comes to me and then judge people based on how they react to that.

That's worked for me before so even if I can't fall back on familiar metas, there's always That.

And sorry if people were trying to address me before this, I'm still at work, I'll try to find time later.

Ultimate-Gamer wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:50 am

chardonnay wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:33 am

Ultimate-Gamer wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:30 pm Speaking of speaking my mind and familiar metas... I REALLY feel like Grendel would know that? Like, how anxious I am in new situations and stuff... It feels REALLY weird that he'd throw that kind of shade and then keep on about it. Like, REALLY weird... This actually legit feels like a scummy Grendel play...

I don't recall you being noticeably nervous in that offsite game we played together a long time ago, and generally your early game persona tends to wax confidence on HS. I know I read your camp game a few years ago (was it really that long ago?), and I honestly didn't recall you getting this nervous in the early game.

Im not sure where I "kept on about it" as I think the only other time before this I mentioned it was because Alison attributed it to Cassowary instead of me.

The remark was jab to see if I could elicit a response from you. It did. Im thinking its a town response. Im aware of your tendency to be wary of me means that as town you'd be prone to aggression me here, meanwhile scum you would pull back in this situation.

I… Suppose… I guess I never saw it that way. I’m perfectly comfortable on starmen obviously, and if I play anywhere else I’m nervous as fuck. Like the most stressed I’ve ever been in my entire life was the Championships on MU. Buuuuuut it’s good experience and it’s good to get out of your comfort zone, see new ways to play bla bla bla.

Anywho, that’s not what I’m here for. I got JUST enough time before I pass out on my keyboard to actually get some reads in and ISO some people.

I WAS gonna do people from my home site, Chardonnay, Cassowary, Nooter, Carot and PSINE.

And while I still wanna get those people sorted, ESPECIALLY Chardonnay who’s response is… Fine? I REALLY wanna get him sorted sooner rather than later.

But I think it’s MORE pressing that I analyze some of these mini wagons we got here. I feel like that would lend where I stand better to the town better than strictly home site group.

So so far we got:
Cassowary
Cayvie
DJ Neutron Star
Jiwon
Long Con

Let’s start with Cassowary.. I gotta admit their opening here feels… Disingenuous a bit? I’m getting vibes of “This is a first post that a townie makes” and it doesn’t feel quite… Real. Their read on PSINE feels this way too. I feel like they’re taking advantage of a good opportunity to paint someone as “wishywashy”. Especially when they themselves pull back after getting just a little pressure.

I DO like the game solving they do later on though with Jiwon and Cayvie. And then later when really pushed they just kinda throw their hands up and say “I don’t know what to tell ya bud” just sounds like a cornered townie who doesn’t know what to say. AND their vote on me feels legitimate. Like despite the behavior in the beginning THIS read feels like there was honest thought behind it and NOT someone trying to pretend. Even if that conclusion is wrong.

This… Might be a hot take but… I’m getting more of a townie lean from this.

Okay let’s move onto Cayvie
Starts of explaining the divisions in the elements and characters… Kinda gets into it with Alison about power roles… Gets really heated with Alison… I don’t Know Cayvie very well but from a scum perspective, what would be gained by this? Like, I’d like to imagine that if Cayvie was startin to but heads with Alison, what would they gain by keeping it up and standing their ground on this? They could have easily said “oh shoot you’re right” and blended RIGHT back in. This doesn’t feel like someone with something to hide ya know?

Yeah the more I read the more I’m seeing a townie actively trying to solve the game to the best of their ability and not concerning themselves with trying to be not noticed. I’m feeling a better town read I think.

Now for Nooter:
I stand by what I said before, Nooter’s read against PSINE was not the best. It feels like someone taking advantage of a situation and then does it again with Cassowary.... It’s still kinda nullish but I’m starting to feel better about a scum read on Nooter here…

I’m also starting to get VERY tired and can kinda feel my thoughts slipping a bit. I still wanna do Jiwon and Long Con.

But before I do I’d LIKE to get some people’s thoughts.

@chardonnay @PSINightmareEmpower

Mind lending me your thoughts about this Nooter here? Does it feel like "taking advantage" to you?

Ultimate-Gamer wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:57 am good morning lovely people.

hey, full disclosure, im having some serious irl problems. I've not even been able to look at the game much. still. ive spoken with the gm, if i cant get my issues sorted out soon i might need to drop

anywho, i figure the best thing i can do right NOW is give you what reads i do have so that y'all can better sort my slot. if i cant do anything super productive, at least ill get to help you out.

So! Let's get started with my reads so far based on what little I've ISO'd and read throughout the game:

Alison: Mega town energy here. Everything feels genuine, from what I've seen she's been active and trying to solve the game. Probably my biggest town read so far, I have a hard time seeing a universe where Alison is scum.

Carot: Similar energy to Alison but not as strong. We share similar reads on Nooter which makes me feel better in my asersion. Town

Cassowary: Town. Like I said before, this might be a hot take, but Cassowary's reactions to being pushed to NOT feel like panicked scum trying to play it cool. they feel like a frustrated townie who doesn't know what to say so they're trying to defend themselves while also simultaneously trying to solve the game. It's a good response and I like it a lot. I really REALLY feel like this was a good, easy yeet for potential scum to latch onto.

Cayvie: ISO'd. Also town. Unlike Alison, I CAN see a universe where Cayvie is scum, but her actions make MORE sense as town. She's active, she's solving the game, she's putting herself out there in a way that would be counterintuitive as scum. Pretty good town lean.

Chard: I'm... Hesistent still. He backed off me when I made a response which again felt fine... I still have a weird feeling about him. Especially posts like this:

chardonnay wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:41 am Aww I guess DoV had to go.

Im partially concerned that his intsa trust in Carrot is b/c he randed mafia, and knew she was town from the start.

But I feel inclined to not jump on him, as he is probably easily sorted over time. A lot of new players are.

feel like he's seeding doubt so he can have an excuse to scum read later ya know? but at the same time the rest of his posts feel pretty genuine. I'm getting FEELINGS about this slot but I can't tell what those feelings are one way or the other.

Nooter: I went into more detail in my last post but if there was a slot that I HAD to scum read it'd probably be this one. Granted I haven't taken a good look at a lot of the player roster, AND considering Nooter was basically the counter wagon to Jiwon... I think that says something but i'm not sure what. During my ISO several of his posts gave me uneasy vibes, and the more I think about this slot the better I feel about those. I'm actually gonna move this to a scum lean.

Nutella: One of the people who came after me prettty hard. And... I liked their reasoning. Their gut reads felt VERY genuine. Getting very similar vibes like I do with Alison and Carot. Their read was wrong, sure, but it feels better than a lot of the posts that I get from both Nooter and Chard. This is someone trying to solve the game for real. Strong town.

PSINE: I'm kinda wary about this. It's still a town lean, for sure, but y'all have never played with PSINE before, her MO between town and scum does not change a lot, her behavior FEELS genuine and townie, but I'm still very hesitent to sort her one way or the other.

If I didn't mention someone that means I dont' have anything to say because I haven't really read enough of their posts to make a call. Hopefully that helps. If you have any questions or anything feel free to ping me and I'll answer asap.

Marcher Jovian wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:48 pm I kinda wish that Dov didn't just roll over once he started facing pressure and that he kept on fighting. But he's probably just a spooked wolf.

PSINightmareEmpower wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:05 am All righty, that works I guess. How do we want to do this? Popcorn style like Alison suggested before her death? Or everybody votes whoever? Popcorn style is harder when the votes don't reset, but if we think that's a good idea, everyone who's already voted can just move their vote to No Vote temporarily.

I can also make a list of scummiest to least scummiest players if need be.

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Sep 06, 2020 1:09 pm Do NOT immediately vote when Jovian gladiates me.

We will be doing this in popcorn order, starting with the scummiest players and ending with the towniest players. This is so that scummy players are forced to make a decision, and can't just sheep the towniest players or whatever wagon looks like it'll win. Towny players are PSI, char, Jack (I doubt a town killing role burns him there, so probably he was marked for death by a scum role), Carotte. Lower level towny players are cayvie, DDL, Fatmo. People like dov and cass are the most widely suspected and should go first. If you don't like this assessment of the towniness/scumminess of players feel free to discuss and come to some kind of consensus for order.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:13 pm

chardonnay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:50 am what do you think it is Jack? :0

I thought it was you because you’re the only one that’s been pressuring me, hence my “legacy is Char is town.” But I’ve been getting more and more the impression (especially after the second poison on me) that I’ve been incorrect in that assumption. To the point that I don’t mind saying it out loud.

But if a wolf didn’t want to clear someone else, they’d just not use that power. I guess. I mean, maybe they figure they might shoot the poison healer.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:33 am @everybody who has played with UG before.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:33 am Is it stupid to think that since UG kept posting these walls about multiple players that there's no way both of his partners (note: double check if there are 3 wolves) are unmentioned in his iso?

Carotenoid wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:08 am

chardonnay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:25 am Unless its Carot/Marcher like you were saying, and yesterday was a hard save from Carot to pull the flip away from Marcher.

ehh DDL was my suspect #1 but never the person I wanted to flip first. Marcher was and still is the person I think we always have to flip but I didn't feel like it needed pages of debate so I just started to move on for after

chardonnay wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:42 am

Carotenoid wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:08 am

chardonnay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:25 am Unless its Carot/Marcher like you were saying, and yesterday was a hard save from Carot to pull the flip away from Marcher.

ehh DDL was my suspect #1 but never the person I wanted to flip first. Marcher was and still is the person I think we always have to flip but I didn't feel like it needed pages of debate so I just started to move on for after

Thanks for the response. THat does make sense.

So you are all for DDL tomorrow regardless Marcher flip? or mostly if Marcher flips mafia? (Forgive me if you already speificed, I am not sober rn haha)

PSINightmareEmpower wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:05 am All righty, that works I guess. How do we want to do this? Popcorn style like Alison suggested before her death? Or everybody votes whoever? Popcorn style is harder when the votes don't reset, but if we think that's a good idea, everyone who's already voted can just move their vote to No Vote temporarily.

I can also make a list of scummiest to least scummiest players if need be.

chardonnay wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:59 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:13 pm

chardonnay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:50 am what do you think it is Jack? :0

I thought it was you because you’re the only one that’s been pressuring me, hence my “legacy is Char is town.” But I’ve been getting more and more the impression (especially after the second poison on me) that I’ve been incorrect in that assumption. To the point that I don’t mind saying it out loud.

But if a wolf didn’t want to clear someone else, they’d just not use that power. I guess. I mean, maybe they figure they might shoot the poison healer.

Yeah, its not me poisoning you. (Im assuming that's ok to hard claim at this point)

Who on the roster do you have a lot of experience with? who here have you had no/little experience with?

chardonnay wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:22 am WE could all post a list of the scummiest to least scum, and average it out. Or post Alison's list and tweak it until we're all sadisfied

Alisons list is like:
TOwn:( PSI, char, Jack, Carotte)
Lesser Town: ( cayvie, DDL, Fatmo)
???: (Wigly, Long Con)
SCum read: (dov, cass)

Marcher is voting DoV here inevitably.

-/-/-

I guess mine would be more like:
TOwn: (Me, PSI, Jack)
Lesser TOwn (Cayie, Cass, DDL, Carotte)
???: (Fatmo, Wigly, Long Con)
SCum: (DOv, Marcher)

Left is higher then right. I include myself on top b/c I kno im town. lol

ALso yeah I, don't know about my wigly read anymore.
-/-/-

THoughts?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:07 am

chardonnay wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:59 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:13 pm

chardonnay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:50 am what do you think it is Jack? :0

I thought it was you because you’re the only one that’s been pressuring me, hence my “legacy is Char is town.” But I’ve been getting more and more the impression (especially after the second poison on me) that I’ve been incorrect in that assumption. To the point that I don’t mind saying it out loud.

But if a wolf didn’t want to clear someone else, they’d just not use that power. I guess. I mean, maybe they figure they might shoot the poison healer.

Yeah, its not me poisoning you. (Im assuming that's ok to hard claim at this point)

Who on the roster do you have a lot of experience with? who here have you had no/little experience with?

I know Wilgy, DDL and LC very well and I've played with Cayvie once. I'm pretty good at finding town DDL when he's acting in a certain way (probably says more about DDL as town than me as town) and less good at distinguishing meh town DDL and scum DDL. I used to think I was good at reading LC but his town and scumgames are fairly similar. Still think he's probably town, here. I'm pretty garbo at reading Wilgy. Like he doesn't always participate enough as town to avoid chop and when he's a wolf, he does things I don't think wolves tend to do and I'm aware of all this so it feels like alignment reading via dartboard. Might have mashed with Marcher before or maybe just talked enough in specchat. Either way, I don't actually know their meta.

Never played with anyone else here.

chardonnay wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:35 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:07 am

chardonnay wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:59 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:13 pm

chardonnay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:50 am what do you think it is Jack? :0

I thought it was you because you’re the only one that’s been pressuring me, hence my “legacy is Char is town.” But I’ve been getting more and more the impression (especially after the second poison on me) that I’ve been incorrect in that assumption. To the point that I don’t mind saying it out loud.

But if a wolf didn’t want to clear someone else, they’d just not use that power. I guess. I mean, maybe they figure they might shoot the poison healer.

Yeah, its not me poisoning you. (Im assuming that's ok to hard claim at this point)

Who on the roster do you have a lot of experience with? who here have you had no/little experience with?

I know Wilgy, DDL and LC very well and I've played with Cayvie once. I'm pretty good at finding town DDL when he's acting in a certain way (probably says more about DDL as town than me as town) and less good at distinguishing meh town DDL and scum DDL. I used to think I was good at reading LC but his town and scumgames are fairly similar. Still think he's probably town, here. I'm pretty garbo at reading Wilgy. Like he doesn't always participate enough as town to avoid chop and when he's a wolf, he does things I don't think wolves tend to do and I'm aware of all this so it feels like alignment reading via dartboard. Might have mashed with Marcher before or maybe just talked enough in specchat. Either way, I don't actually know their meta.

Never played with anyone else here.

You are normally hard to flip right?

Im thinking the burn is from a mafia aligned player with experience on you who is aware that you're a hard flip to make. And know their lock-burning you since theres a healer left somewhere, and don't want to healer saving more soft-clears.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:10 pm Dropping a vote on Cass and will put in an effort to catch up during lunch.

Recall that I wanted to murk Cayvie/Cass d1 but since then haven't been too mindful of the game.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:10 pm Dropping a vote on Cass and will put in an effort to catch up during lunch.

Recall that I wanted to murk Cayvie/Cass d1 but since then haven't been too mindful of the game.

cayvie wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:44 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:10 pm Dropping a vote on Cass and will put in an effort to catch up during lunch.

Recall that I wanted to murk Cayvie/Cass d1 but since then haven't been too mindful of the game.

i don't buy this "oh i didn't realize there was a gladiator contest happening"

you were pinged, you're aware.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:49 pm

cayvie wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:44 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:10 pm Dropping a vote on Cass and will put in an effort to catch up during lunch.

Recall that I wanted to murk Cayvie/Cass d1 but since then haven't been too mindful of the game.

i don't buy this "oh i didn't realize there was a gladiator contest happening"

you were pinged, you're aware.

"My name is Cayvie and I speak for the WoogrZ who's clearly paying attention."

cayvie wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:51 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:49 pm

cayvie wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:44 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:10 pm Dropping a vote on Cass and will put in an effort to catch up during lunch.

Recall that I wanted to murk Cayvie/Cass d1 but since then haven't been too mindful of the game.

i don't buy this "oh i didn't realize there was a gladiator contest happening"

you were pinged, you're aware.

"My name is Cayvie and I speak for the WoogrZ who's clearly paying attention."

lmao ya still made sure to be here at EOD tho huh

Suki (Earth Kingdom)

Fan Master: Once per game, during the day, you can choose to duel someone. This will make you two the only valid vote options, and whichever of you has more votes at EOD will die. This ability can be used against a player of any element. You must use this with at least 12 hours left in the day. You are Mafia, and you win at parity.

Zhao (Fire Nation)

You have no abilities. You are town, and you win when all the mafia are dead.