Willow [Endgame]

[Epignosis]

U MAD BRO?

[insertnamehere]

I'm going to take the fact that you left me alive as a compliment, and move on.

[Epignosis]

Willow / Kate
Meegosh / MetalMarsh89
Vonkhar / Sorsha
The High Aldwin / Dom
Madmartigan / insertnamehere
Airk / juliets
Fin Raziel / DharmaHelper
Cherlindrea / birdwithteeth11
Franjean / Turnip Head
Rool / thellama73

Bavmorda / S~V~S
General Kael / bea
Sorsha / Elohcin

Burglekutt / FZ.

[FZ.]

Well, thanks for turning what was supposed to be a simple, straightforward game into something complicated in a hurry.

This is why we can't have nice things.

Anyway, here are some thoughts:

I was shocked by all the thinking that I’d tweaked them for Andrew’s sake.

The Prologue poll was to determine who would be the tie-breaker. Andrew and Kate tied. I rolled a die, best two out of three. Andrew was odd, Kate was even. I rolled three 5s (Yahtzee!). So Andrew would decide all ties. This would be done by submitting a list. #1 is the person he deems most suspicious, and #14 would be the person he trusted most (presumably himself). He could update the list at any time. That’s how ties were handled. juliets resubmitted the list after she subbed in.

On Night 1, Turnip Head made S~V~S target birdwithteeth11. The original target was DharmaHelper. This understandably cemented the TH / thellama suspicion of S~V~S.

++++

So this is where things got squirrely:

On Night 3, FZ. forced juliets and bea to vote for Kate. Juliets elected not to, and bea missed the vote. I tend to consider not following through on a vote curse tantamount to breaking a rule (imagine if someone who was silenced chose to speak in the thread anyway).

However, it would not have been fair to FZ. to modkill them, because it would have ended the game and FZ. would have lost.

So I decided the thread would get a taste of Super Burglekutt: All juliets’ and bea’s powers would go to FZ. permanently, without their knowledge.

That’s right. FZ. had a role block and controlled bea’s even Night kill.

And with great power, FZ. took down every remaining civilian except insertnamehere. FZ. was a Burglekutt in the richest sense: Determined to have peace without evildoers ruling the land, but not happy with others sharing the victory, haha.

I didn't know I took their power, I just thought I got one of my own. That's why I thought Sorsha was the baddie, because only my kill went through, and then, the same thing went down with DH...though I did consider it a possibility that they tried to kill INH and he just protected himself. Oh man, had I known I took their power, I might have voted differently. Bottom line is with the 5 players, the only person I was sure about what INH because I took his power on the first night. That's also how I assumed Kate was Willow, because I couldn't take hers, and with her hints in the thread, I had to take her out, so every night, I tried to make two people vote for her...

[insertnamehere]

Wow, you played us all like fiddles.

[kneel4justice]

Good job, FZ!!! Yeah! It feels cool to win over here, huh?! Now you get a banner. Haha
And congrats to INH too. I just had to come congratulate my KSITE pal.

[insertnamehere]

*slow clap*

[Epignosis]

I deliberately didn't tell you stole their powers. So yes, I was astounded and amused that you worked so hard eliminating civilian after civilian.

[Epignosis]

Good job, FZ!!! Yeah! It feels cool to win over here, huh?! Now you get a banner. Haha
And congrats to INH too. I just had to come congratulate my KSITE pal.

Damn, and I just made one of those. I have to make another.

I hope I can do it tomorrow.

[insertnamehere]

You're like flipping Keyser Soyze.

[FZ.]

Good job, FZ!!! Yeah! It feels cool to win over here, huh?! Now you get a banner. Haha
And congrats to INH too. I just had to come congratulate my KSITE pal.

Thank you That's sweet!
Yeah, it's great to win here. And it was great being an independent role. I don't think I ever had that on K-site


Epi, I'm glad you found it amusing

INH, I wasn't playing you....maybe just a little.

[FZ.]

Oh, and I definitely want a banner

[insertnamehere]

Made you an avatar:

[juliets]

Congrats FZ and inh! FZ, I was just sure kate was Willow and for the first time ever in any game I decided I was not going to do the curse. I thought it was more important that she stayed alive and I would pay whatever price there was. I really am shocked that bea didn't vote either - I'm interested to know whether she didn't vote on purpose or she just missed the whole thing due to work. Anyway, congrats on your first Syndicate win!

[Turnip Head]

Congrats FZ and INH! You guys were epic heroes this game, and definitely both deserved the win.

The rest of the civvies... well, I guess we got what was coming to us, huh? :P

I'm glad FZ/Burglekutt decided to help the civvies (even though you helped get a lot of civs killed in the process, lol!) I like to think that llama and I helping you get SVS lynched had a little bit to do with that decision

[Epignosis]

I was sad that Franjean and Rool died so early.

[FZ.]

Made you an avatar:

Thanks

Congrats FZ and inh! FZ, I was just sure kate was Willow and for the first time ever in any game I decided I was not going to do the curse. I thought it was more important that she stayed alive and I would pay whatever price there was. I really am shocked that bea didn't vote either - I'm interested to know whether she didn't vote on purpose or she just missed the whole thing due to work. Anyway, congrats on your first Syndicate win!

Honestly, it made me really mad. I voted for Elo even though I was sure she was a baddie and lynching her would cement Kate as a civvie , because I was sure the lynch wouldn't go through since you and Bea didn't do what you were supposed to. And then, when I saw Elo was lynched, I was mad. But then Epi gave me your powers (which I didn't know were yours), and I killed you, because you deserved to die, and because I thought maybe you were Meegosh, and now I had to kill him to get Kate killed at night because I didn't think there was any chance I'd manage to lynch her...

Thanks though, it all worked out for the best.

Congrats FZ and INH! You guys were epic heroes this game, and definitely both deserved the win.

The rest of the civvies... well, I guess we got what was coming to us, huh? :P

I'm glad FZ/Burglekutt decided to help the civvies (even though you helped get a lot of civs killed in the process, lol!) I like to think that llama and I helping you get SVS lynched had a little bit to do with that decision

Actually, you two were the only ones who didn't deserve to die (and INH), so I felt I owed you a little and when I learned that SVS was who I needed her to be, that was a very happy moment for me. So thank you

[thellama73]

I was sad that Franjean and Rool died so early.

Yeah me too. Especially since we knew who two of the baddies were in the first couple of days. I was glad we were able to point people in the right direction at least, before dying, though.

[thellama73]

I just read back up and saw all the shenannigans that went on. Props to FZ for being the coolest Indy ever. Congrats to INH as well.

[Turnip Head]

If we had been successful in getting SVS lynched on Day 1 or 2 like we wanted to, I have a feeling both llama and I would have been able to survive a lot longer. I knew I was a dead man as soon as llama was lynched though.

[DharmaHelper]

I was shocked by all the thinking that I’d tweaked them for Andrew’s sake.

I got your back bro.

[DharmaHelper]

Though to be fair the main proponent of the "Andrew prolly isn't bad because Epig wouldn't do that." theory was SVS McBaddiepants.

[juliets]

Made you an avatar:

Thanks

Congrats FZ and inh! FZ, I was just sure kate was Willow and for the first time ever in any game I decided I was not going to do the curse. I thought it was more important that she stayed alive and I would pay whatever price there was. I really am shocked that bea didn't vote either - I'm interested to know whether she didn't vote on purpose or she just missed the whole thing due to work. Anyway, congrats on your first Syndicate win!

Honestly, it made me really mad. I voted for Elo even though I was sure she was a baddie and lynching her would cement Kate as a civvie , because I was sure the lynch wouldn't go through since you and Bea didn't do what you were supposed to. And then, when I saw Elo was lynched, I was mad. But then Epi gave me your powers (which I didn't know were yours), and I killed you, because you deserved to die, and because I thought maybe you were Meegosh, and now I had to kill him to get Kate killed at night because I didn't think there was any chance I'd manage to lynch her...

Thanks though, it all worked out for the best.

Yeah I was not surprised to get killed, I actually expected to get mod-killed, but there is no way I was going to vote Kate.

[thellama73]

Yeah I was not surprised to get killed, I actually expected to get mod-killed, but there is no way I was going to vote Kate.

I'm concerned at the precedent you've set for deliberate cheating as a game strategy.

[DharmaHelper]

Yeah I was not surprised to get killed, I actually expected to get mod-killed, but there is no way I was going to vote Kate.

I'm concerned at the precedent you've set for deliberate cheating as a game strategy.

Did I miss something? :P

[DharmaHelper]

Oh nevermind I see it, Naught JC.

[DharmaHelper]

Oh nevermind I see it, Naught JC.

*Naughty

[Epignosis]

When FZ flipped out and started lynching civilians, my Mafia sense kicked in and I hoped she won for bea.

[DharmaHelper]

When FZ flipped out and started lynching civilians, my Mafia sense kicked in and I hoped she won for bea.

[DharmaHelper]

Made you an avatar:

Thanks

Congrats FZ and inh! FZ, I was just sure kate was Willow and for the first time ever in any game I decided I was not going to do the curse. I thought it was more important that she stayed alive and I would pay whatever price there was. I really am shocked that bea didn't vote either - I'm interested to know whether she didn't vote on purpose or she just missed the whole thing due to work. Anyway, congrats on your first Syndicate win!

Honestly, it made me really mad. I voted for Elo even though I was sure she was a baddie and lynching her would cement Kate as a civvie , because I was sure the lynch wouldn't go through since you and Bea didn't do what you were supposed to. And then, when I saw Elo was lynched, I was mad. But then Epi gave me your powers (which I didn't know were yours), and I killed you, because you deserved to die, and because I thought maybe you were Meegosh, and now I had to kill him to get Kate killed at night because I didn't think there was any chance I'd manage to lynch her...

Thanks though, it all worked out for the best.

Yeah I was not surprised to get killed, I actually expected to get mod-killed, but there is no way I was going to vote Kate.

Voting for Kate when I was forced to instead of SVS was what got me lynched and robbed me of any defense against it. Still did it, and didn't cop out by saying I was forced or anything. Just saying.

[Marmot]

So if we die we are unable to win???

See if I ever throw myself under the bus again. Not that I did in this game, but I did in Harry Potter.

[DharmaHelper]

Also, well played to everybody, and well deserved to the winners.

[juliets]

So if we die we are unable to win???

See if I ever throw myself under the bus again. Not that I did in this game, but I did in Harry Potter.

MM this differs from host to host. Most often though I see the host allow the baddies to all win whether dead or not but I don't see it as much with civs. But, like I say, it depends on the host.

[DharmaHelper]

So if we die we are unable to win???

See if I ever throw myself under the bus again. Not that I did in this game, but I did in Harry Potter.

Usually I consider a civvie win a win for everybody who was a civ.

[Marmot]

So if we die we are unable to win???

See if I ever throw myself under the bus again. Not that I did in this game, but I did in Harry Potter.

Usually I consider a civvie win a win for everybody who was a civ.

I would tend to agree. Civs already seem to have a hard enough time winning on this site without having to survive to the finish. This is my fifth game on this site and the first one where the civs won.

I can also understand the frustration of llama. He seems like a good player, which means if he's civ, there's a good chance he'll be NK'd early on in every game.

[thellama73]

I can also understand the frustration of llama. He seems like a good player, which means if he's civ, there's a good chance he'll be NK'd early on in every game.

I actually rarely get NKed because everyone knows that I am likely to be lynched, so am a good distraction from the real baddies.

[Marmot]

I can also understand the frustration of llama. He seems like a good player, which means if he's civ, there's a good chance he'll be NK'd early on in every game.

I actually rarely get NKed because everyone knows that I am likely to be lynched, so am a good distraction from the real baddies.

Oops, I guess I was part of the reason in this game, huh.

But you proved the guilt of another player, so all was not lost.

[Marmot]

And I've noticed you're still hanging out in my illegible garden.

[Turnip Head]

Yeah but if the civs had played a little better maybe more of us would have survived long enough to win. :P

It's tough because it really is a group effort to win as civilians, but the ones who work the hardest usually don't make it to the end, unless they had some protection/useful role powers.

[FZ.]

I think a civ win means all the civvies win. I used to be quite good at finding the baddies so they NK me early each game, and it was frustrating.

Sadly, I don't have that problem anymore . I get NK but not for those reasons


linki @ I agree with the last part. As for you surviving, I doubt it. If you found a baddie, it would just motivate them to NK you even more.

[bea]

Great game you guys! Well deserved win for FZ and INH.

INH - I really like your less zany side. You made a lot of great insights this game really.

A couple of things:

1) Yes - Llama and TH were right about SVS, but for many wrong reasons. SVS would have done and said what she did about Andrew regardless of alignment. With that reasoning you had a 50 percent chance of having been chasing a civ. TH's point about not bringing up suspects had way more weight to it, which was why I agreed with it.

2) Loosing her sucked it. That piggie effect was essentially a kill. It drasitcly reduced our powers as a baddie team, but what are ya gonna do right?

3) I legit missed the vote I was supposed to vote kate for. I ment to get up earlier and somehow slept through my alarm. Believe me, at that point, I had NO problems with my force vote (Also - I knew darn well that DH had to force vote but I wasn't letting on to that because well...crap - I had very little to hold on to once elo was gone too.) Once I missed that vote, I knew it was going to be impossible to win. I felt like teh suck to my team too.

4) I thought the first time my kill was ganked (JC"s kill ) that it was the indy - because I thought the role said that if the force vote didn't result in a lynch the indi could steal a power. I was waiting to be lynched the whole rest of the game because I thought for sure FZ knew I was the baddie. I also thought when I was cursed to post backwards, it was punishment for having missed the vote.

5) I thought it was weird I lost the kill a second time, but I didn't care because someone was killing civs for me left and right. With the way the lynches were going, I thought I might have had half a chance after all.

6) BTS was a blast. I had so much fun with SVS and Eloh and Epi. As much as I suck it as a baddie. I do love hanging out in the chat room

Thanks for a great game everyone! I'm sorry I wasn't at my best for this one.

[Turnip Head]

I'd like to take this time to point out that I never expressed suspicion of SVS due to how she was treating Andrew. Llama did, but I have a feeling he did that mainly to see how SVS would react to it.

My suspicion of SVS was for all the right reasons. But I bet you guys were very frustrated with how we were pursuing her! That was the idea

I would have never gone after SVS the way I did, if I felt it was a 50/50 shot like you say bea. I felt very strongly she was a baddie and I was right.

[S~V~S]

I have to agree with Bea, my reaction to the initial suspicion would have been the same. I was genuinely upset and offended that anyone would have felt I would use an 8 year old for cred. Had it gotten to that point, I would have had a very hard time NKing him, and we might have a had a problem in my team.

You were right about my lack of suspicions, but up to that point, I acted exactly as I would if i were a civ. I reacted defensively because I tend to be a defensive person, bad or good. Several people have actually used that as a baddie tactic, tried to upset me in order to lynch me as defensive, ha ha. Bad times

[thellama73]

I have to agree with Bea, my reaction to the initial suspicion would have been the same. I was genuinely upset and offended that anyone would have felt I would use an 8 year old for cred. Had it gotten to that point, I would have had a very hard time NKing him, and we might have a had a problem in my team.

You were right about my lack of suspicions, but up to that point, I acted exactly as I would if i were a civ. I reacted defensively because I tend to be a defensive person, bad or good. Several people have actually used that as a baddie tactic, tried to upset me in order to lynch me as defensive, ha ha. Bad times

I didn't think you were bad because of what you said about Andrew, I just disagreed with you. At first it was intuition, and then it was the fact that we redirected your pigging ower to BWT and he miraculously turned into a pig, but obviously I couldn't say that.

I was genuinely offended that you wouldn't use an 8 year old for civ cred when you would have used anyone else, or that you say you would have had a hard time killing him. As I said many times in the thread, I think kids should be treated with the same respect and dignity as anyone else in the game.

[S~V~S]

I guess I mean it to say i took it as a personal attack on my character. In retrospect, it was not, but that was how i took it. And i am a woman, i romanticize children. And i wondered why DH did not get pigged, lol.

[Epignosis]

I guess I mean it to say i took it as a personal attack on my character. In retrospect, it was not, but that was how i took it. And i am a woman, i romanticize children. And i wondered why DH did not get pigged, lol.

Children.

[Turnip Head]

By the way: Elo, please keep playing with your more aggressive playstyle. at least try it once as a civvie. I think if you do that, you'll be more aware of your tells that some people picked up on in this game. I liked your style this game! Even if I heavily suspected that you were a baddie

[Elohcin]

By the way: Elo, please keep playing with your more aggressive playstyle. at least try it once as a civvie. I think if you do that, you'll be more aware of your tells that some people picked up on in this game. I liked your style this game! Even if I heavily suspected that you were a baddie

Thank you for the encouragement, TH. I was really hoping to be civ this game so my "more aggressive" playstyle wouldn't be seen as my baddie playstyle. :/ But it is what it is.

I was not upset that I was being lynched. I was upset about how I got lynched. It seemed to me (and I have previous BTSC experiences that help form my opinion) that certain players will choose to stand by their RL friends no matter what team they are on in Mafia. I understand people may play and vote as they please. However IMO, we ought to leave RL relationships out of it as much as possible. If I believed Epi is bad, you better bet I am going after him

[thellama73]

I was not upset that I was being lynched. I was upset about how I got lynched. It seemed to me (and I have previous BTSC experiences that help form my opinion) that certain players will choose to stand by their RL friends no matter what team they are on in Mafia.

I recruited RL friend Hedgeowl (Hedgebaddie, I call her) to the site and proceeded to try to get her killed in every subsequent game we played together. What else are friends for?

[juliets]

By the way: Elo, please keep playing with your more aggressive playstyle. at least try it once as a civvie. I think if you do that, you'll be more aware of your tells that some people picked up on in this game. I liked your style this game! Even if I heavily suspected that you were a baddie

Thank you for the encouragement, TH. I was really hoping to be civ this game so my "more aggressive" playstyle wouldn't be seen as my baddie playstyle. :/ But it is what it is.

I was not upset that I was being lynched. I was upset about how I got lynched. It seemed to me (and I have previous BTSC experiences that help form my opinion) that certain players will choose to stand by their RL friends no matter what team they are on in Mafia. I understand people may play and vote as they please. However IMO, we ought to leave RL relationships out of it as much as possible. If I believed Epi is bad, you better bet I am going after him

Eloh, I couldn't agree more.