The Syndicate

bea wrote:

I'm not joking. Every lynch in this game has felt like a Day 1 lynch to me. I'm no more clear on leads this game than I was at the start of it. I have no team bts. I have the thread. And I know that there are those in the thread who are purposely trying to mislead me. I usually have half a feel on some civs by now, and I don't. And I feel lost.

I agree with this. It has been very challenging to get a good read on people. I think that has a lot to do with the zany/crazy/unexpected actions of many people, plus the different win conditions civvies, baddies, and indies have. Just the analysis on Sander Cohen alone had people confused. I find myself rereading the roles often because there's so much there.

Thank you for your thorough explanation bea. This is helpful going into the vote tomorrow.

Add me to your Abyss of Confusion party. I'm glad it isn't just me.

I'm rereading the player roles a lot too. Maybe we can start deducing who has used plasmid and who hasn't.

Do all y'all typically keep written notes to help you keep track of your feelings on various players?

Mongoose wrote: Do all y'all typically keep written notes to help you keep track of your feelings on various players?

I keep a spreadsheet cataloging all votes and sometimes I'll make notes on players. It all depends.

Epi - suspects are hard for me to form. - but here's where my head is now.

I have pretty good feelings about you. Surprisingly as I've ONLY ever seen your baddie game, I'm not sure I'll ever completely trust you, but you make lots of sense especially in hind-site of the Teefies vote. If there's one thing I've learned about you in the two games I've seen you play is that you are a very good observer.

I had pretty good warm fuzzies about JC, but then I always do. It tends to trick me up when she's bad, but I don't think she was this time.

I wasn't sure at all about LT.

I think I have pretty good feelings about Rusti.

DH always worries me when he posts things like "I'll post later" for extended periods of time. I get why he does it and he's helpful when he's a civ but he's also very good at being a forceful baddie. IDK where I stand with him yet.

I'm still not sure about Aces.

I think llama may be civ still. I know you disagree with me as you voted him. It could be a good case of "bea always wants to see the best in people." or it could be that I was right to trust llama even if he was wrong to trust teefies.

la seems to make sense when she posts. I'm almost inclined to trust her. Her posts and JC's really have in the past echoed what I thought - but I think quote posts that just say "this" are redundant ya know? That said - LA - well - she's crafty and yea. I want to trust her but I don't yet. Ya know?

Same with Dom. Dom's been good at going after snow dog while not having to address anything else.

GOB still hasn't made a post in the game (unless I missed it?) . Day 2- I almost voted for him. Day 3 and I'm still wtf? I can't help but thinking that if he had teammates, someone would be screamming at him bts to JUST GO POST SOMETHING! PLAY THE NOOB CARD!!! - but then again, the silence seems to be working for him, so maybe they are just letting it go while it keeps passing under the radar. IDK. I really don't know. I wish I did. I hate falling for the "quiet players" thing, but for the love of god, it's Day 3. I know nothing and even I've got something to say. If he's lost, then he can't hurt anything by coming into the thread and saying he's lost. His total silence seriously breaks my brain.

I'm not sure what to make of your wife yet. Though tbh, she only hit my radar because she mentioned my name.

Which reminds me the "baddies begin with B" theory - yea. I'm not sure about bullz. boo or boomslang. TBH bullz and boo - though I love them, always make me pull my hairs out a bit. But the B that has gone slippery by is boats. Where is our sweet boats?

It's the same as with vomp and lizzy. - really - go back and look - what opinions have they given on anything that's not just them playing and being all "creative" -

For me, it feels like the people who talk are the only ones getting an eye - that's why from way back, I've been trying to get people to talk. It wasn't that I thought agleaming was bad, it was only that I couldn't get a read from him by his no posting. And then somehow he caught everyone's attention after I pointed it out and now he's dead. IDK where he was. That's why I was asking him to talk more.

Also - I know DF is a low poster, but really he usually has some quality in those posts. I'm not seeing yet if he's just low posting to fly under the radar or if he's as confused as I am. Though if people were confused you'd think they'd say so...

That's all I got at the moment - was there someone addressed that I hadn't mentioned you were looking to find an opinion on?

linki - I have tried to keep notes and spreadsheets - and I always either give up on them early - or die before they are of use. Most of the time, I'm flying blind. I love my spreadsheets when I'm hosting. I've yet to learn how to use them well when I'm playing.

as far as notes go, if I have several pages to read to catch up - I'll often keep notes in order to post what my thoughts are regarding the current topic of conversation. I've not been good at doing it this game, but in the past it's helped me.

bea wrote: I'm not sure what to make of your wife yet.

Well, she's lousy at making coffee, but she's a great in bed.

Epignosis wrote:

bea wrote: I'm not sure what to make of your wife yet.

Well, she's lousy at making coffee, but she's a great in bed.

fair enough....I guess if you have to give up one thing for the other, you chose wisely. But while we are here, what do you make of her regarding the game? How's your vibes on the Mrs atm? You were a baddie with her, what do you think?

bea wrote:
GOB still hasn't made a post in the game (unless I missed it?) . Day 2- I almost voted for him. Day 3 and I'm still wtf? I can't help but thinking that if he had teammates, someone would be screamming at him bts to JUST GO POST SOMETHING! PLAY THE NOOB CARD!!! - but then again, the silence seems to be working for him, so maybe they are just letting it go while it keeps passing under the radar. IDK. I really don't know. I wish I did. I hate falling for the "quiet players" thing, but for the love of god, it's Day 3. I know nothing and even I've got something to say. If he's lost, then he can't hurt anything by coming into the thread and saying he's lost. His total silence seriously breaks my brain.

Thanks for pointing that out; I hadn't noticed it myself. By this point, he probably should have said something, so the continued silence is worrying. What do you have to say for yourself, young man?

Boomslang wrote:

bea wrote:
GOB still hasn't made a post in the game (unless I missed it?) . Day 2- I almost voted for him. Day 3 and I'm still wtf? I can't help but thinking that if he had teammates, someone would be screamming at him bts to JUST GO POST SOMETHING! PLAY THE NOOB CARD!!! - but then again, the silence seems to be working for him, so maybe they are just letting it go while it keeps passing under the radar. IDK. I really don't know. I wish I did. I hate falling for the "quiet players" thing, but for the love of god, it's Day 3. I know nothing and even I've got something to say. If he's lost, then he can't hurt anything by coming into the thread and saying he's lost. His total silence seriously breaks my brain.

Thanks for pointing that out; I hadn't noticed it myself. By this point, he probably should have said something, so the continued silence is worrying. What do you have to say for yourself, young man?

again - like with agleaming - I don't want him to come to the attention of others to be picked off - I just want him to engage in the game.

I'm skerred that as soon as I point out the non participary peeps they'll be NKed.

I really just want to hear what GOB makes of this whole thing we are doing...IDK if he's civ or mafia...

I'll go ahead and play the noob card. And I am trying to figure out how to play. I am sorry if I am breaking peoples' brains. Also, I thought I had posted once before and it mustn't have actually said anything. I'm here now.

gob - what are your thoughts as we walk into the next vote cycle. -

if there's any questions you have - feel free to express them - out side of that -you've been an outside observer for 3 days - what do you see? where is your head right now? I honestly was going to vote you today if you didn't post. Now you have to explain to me why I shouldn't. I've left posts all through this thread asking you to talk....

now that I mention a team might be all "let's see how long we can ride it" you speak up?

You really get in the Mafia Mood if you listen to Sweeney Todd while reading the thread

Snow Dog wrote:

Dom wrote:

Snow Dog wrote: Simply pointing out Aces pretty much has the same opinion as me. Look at me everyone. I'm just saying that. This Dom guy seems a bit desperate to be honest. I actually think Aces is civ too and won't vote for him for sharing my opinion.

And how was I bringing attention on you subtly actually? Bit paranoid. You credit me with far too much savvy.

Yeah, not trying to put attention on me at all.

Alright. It seems if I answer you at all I am trying to put attention on you. You accuse me of this instead of actually answering any questions I ask.

You asked me how you are trying to deflect attention onto me. I bolded the part of your post that did so. "This Dom guy seems a bit desperate to be honest".
1) You don't address me, but rather the entire thread. A very subtle thing that makes the audience for your post quite different.
2) I'm desperate? Really? I've voted for you ONE TIME. On Day 2.




On a separate note:

This whole business with TheLlama/epi... I found it quite confusing, to be honest. But after reading again, I think I understand epi quite well on this. I am considering a llama vote on this lynch as well as a Snowdog vote. While I think his point about Bea made sense, it does seem rather odd that Llama has a new suspect just about every time someone talks to him. I also find it interesting that llama seemed to think that epig had joined him with his case against bea. He seemed to forget that he once had suspicion against epig, but then when epig further explained, his suspicion suddenly returned.

Dom wrote:I also find it interesting that llama seemed to think that epig had joined him with his case against bea.

If you read the posts, I'm not sure what else I could have concluded. I'm still baffled as to how Epig took the interpretation he did from that.

bea wrote:gob - what are your thoughts as we walk into the next vote cycle. -

if there's any questions you have - feel free to express them - out side of that -you've been an outside observer for 3 days - what do you see? where is your head right now? I honestly was going to vote you today if you didn't post. Now you have to explain to me why I shouldn't. I've left posts all through this thread asking you to talk....

now that I mention a team might be all "let's see how long we can ride it" you speak up?

Yeah, I was (am?) considering a vote for GOB too. He responded to you really fairly quickly.

Also Dom, the fact that I keep having new suspects has to do with the fact that things keep changing. I had one set of suspects before BWT flipped. Since he flipped bad and I was not expecting him to, that forced me to reevaluate. I was suspicious of Rob before, the flip made me think I was wrong, but Rob's actions since have made me think maybe I was right again. Lizzy has remained near the top of my list all game and I've been consistent in mentioning Hedgeowl and Nevinera, but have still not found anything concrete enough to warrant a vote on theme. Bea's vote timing made me suspect her enough to do a reread, in which I discovered things that make me think she's bad.

It goes against the grain to quote Keynes, but as he once said: "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?”

I honestly just got on here for the first time to try and read through everyone's comments. I haven't gotten though a lot of the pages so far, but flipped to the last page to see reference to "post now G.O.B" so I did.

I am still trying to figure out what everyone has been saying and am still a few pages behind and have to go to bed. I am leaning towards Lizzie just based on some of the discussions from a few pages ago. I am am trying to catch back up but it is hard with work, and not having a smart phone.

I have to vote tonight, and will in the next few minutes. I missed the last vote because I was not at home in time, and forgot to log in. Really just noob stuff. I am trying to catch up.

I may try to log in before work in the morning, if there is time to read more. I really just haven't made up my mind yet as to who to vote for. I just am figuring out how the game works.

At this point it seems llama and epig are hellbent on lynching each other. Well epig is more hellbent than llama. Llama would be happy if epig would just back off. I think they may both be bad, but I'm planning to vote llama today. First BWT subtly vouched for him, then LT went after him and she was killed. Maybe someone else thought killing LT would throw susp at llama. But going with what seems more likely, llama did it.

Now jc was under susp from epig for defending BWT, and there seemed to be a bit of convo (that struck me as possibly staged- referring to the explanation of the llama gambit, when it had been explained in a game at rm where jc and llama had both played) between llama and jc in the thread. Maybe this is where epig comes in; nk jc, then lynch llama for the cred. I'll wait til tomorrow to vote, in case something earth shattering happens to change my mind.

G.O.B. wrote:I may try to log in before work in the morning, if there is time to read more. I really just haven't made up my mind yet as to who to vote for. I just am figuring out how the game works.

Yet - you still knew to vote on time - I get all this - I really do - and would hope to hear something concrete about why lizzy is looking bad in your world.

My cynical mind tells me that your teammates said during the last lynch "no one but bea has rasied your name nothing to worry about."

And I know I said the phrase "play the noob card" and look - right on cue here you are ....well...playing it.

I recommend a nice read of the thread...I mean - you have been reading along haven't you? you've not missed a vote so why shouldn't we think you're not reading along?

I'm sure anyone would be happy to answer any questions you have...


linki - mata -I am not sure what you are saying here. Are you saying that JC and llama and epi are a team? And that they sacrificed JC in order to lynch llama for epi to gain street cred? Because - really - I can't see the sense of that from any baddie team - and if I miss read something from your post, please point it out to me.

Bea- I'm thinking that epig and llama are on opposing teams. Epig killed jc because he thought she was llamas teammate. Now he wants to lynch llama and then he'll have the cred for getting a baddie. Except he is probably bad too.

ok - that makes more sense.

I want to trust epi - but hell - I have YET to see a civ epi. So you know... there's that. I'm curious as to his opinion on
Elohcin and her opinion on him. In the Grimm game they were on the same baddie team. I'm curious as to how they read each other in a new game.

Btw, Bea- I think your outlook regarding Gob is understandable. It does seem a bit convenient that he just shows up when you pushed a bit.

I know - but I feel a bit reluctant after the whole agleaming thing...

what are you thinking this time around mata?

I mean - besides the epi/llama show...

I don't know yet about anyone else, the show has taken most of my attention. I spent my night rereading jc, lt, llama, epig, and BWT. That's about all I had time for tonight. And llama is the one I feel strongest about lynching.

The thread so far has been survival of the fittest, " lets find someone to lynch, as long as it isn't me ", you know, typical early game stuff. Mafia games have become more sophisticated, more complicated, and more varied/creative in the few years that I've been playing. And it seems to me that baddie teams have gone back to their roots and are playing the way they played a few years ago- unsophisticated , more simplistic, doing all the things that are obvious baddie tricks,because no one would believe that someone bad would actually defend a teammate, or slip up ..... Like everything old is new again. Maybe I'm getting fooled, but I'm going to go with the obvious, in your face stuff for now.

that makes lots of sense mata.

IDK... diggz and I were talking about that the other night about the current complexity of mafia games that is

I'm glad I get to sleep on it before I vote. 'That said - I either vote hecka early tomorrow or vote on the fly at work tomrrow....

it's a postition I hate being in tbh.

I thought I missed Day Two vote. I have still not caught up with the most recent stuff. I don't think I can really decide anything concrete before I leave, so I am probably just going to read this last page, and see what the current thoughts are. I saw many people mention llama...

I am voting Llama, Lizzy seems to have fallen out of the discussion somewhat. Hopefully, I haven't raised too many eyebrows. I just had a very busy weekend and hadn't been able to look at the thread since Friday. I am just working on catching up. Sorry I don't have a more sophisticated answer than mob mentality at this point. The shouts at llama seem the loudest.

I have been staring at the late Aces voters since that vote, and bea has been particularly suspicious.
The timing of votes is almost the only really concrete thing we have to work with, and hers was perfectly timed to try to save BWT. Her response to bwt's flip was also comically wierd-sounding, very "golly-gee-willickers!"

As in the other game, I'm reading Epig's belligerence as his reaction to not having BTSC for once (welcome to the party, isn't it confusing?). I'm still on edge about Llama, but baddies don't flip-flop so much; it makes too many enemies.

I'm not confident I will back on the site before this afternoon (another VM deadline looming), so I'm going to go ahead and vote for bea.

bea wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

bea wrote: I'm not sure what to make of your wife yet.

Well, she's lousy at making coffee, but she's a great in bed.

fair enough....I guess if you have to give up one thing for the other, you chose wisely. But while we are here, what do you make of her regarding the game? How's your vibes on the Mrs atm? You were a baddie with her, what do you think?

I have no suspicion of her. The only coaching it looks like she's had has been in-thread, for better (Day 2) or for worse (Day 1).

Alright, voting llama (was thinking about this while at work, but nice to arrive at something independently and see at least 2 other people bring up almost the exact reasons - those being Epig and Mata).

Most of what Epi said (in the beginning are thoughts similar to what I had) and then the whole discussion between them (added to reasons I suspect llama and feel good about a vote there). For me, it's primarily a few things here: I think he has been quick to move suspicion wherever he views it to be most convenient (the 'B plan' if you will). Prior to seeing his case on Bea, I suspected he was throwing it out there, hoping others would pick it up and run with it. I'm not entirely sure the case against Bea wasn't his effort to bring it back (as people seemed to be ignoring it to some extent, and Epi and he had begun by that point).

For what Mata said, and this was my primary reason once I got to it (in a sense it still is, but the Epi-llama back and forth I think is a more significant solid reason then this, so... also lesser, if that makes any sense). The defense of BWT from llama was I think another gambit from a baddie-llama. He has shown he is willing to use WIFOM heavy plays that (to me, ofc) make very little sense. If he's willing to do it as a civvie, I see no reason he would not pull the same thing as a baddie. Defending a baddie teammate is (as Mata pointed out) Bad Baddieing 101. But it's so obviously bad baddieing that doing it at this point is so WIFOM inducing you can be reasonably to get away with it.

Connected to that. Like llama, I figured BWT would turn up civ. The reasons he were being lynched were, imo, silly (as was the case in the RM game he got lynched D1 and was a baddie. Getting him twice in a row early in the game over nonsensical reasons seemed unlikely to me), and because the numbers just mean we're more likely to get a civvie then baddie early in the game, that's how I figured things would turn up.

My problem however, was llama so willing to defend someone so heavily on Day 2. I didn't think BWT was baddie for the reasons he took votes, because those reasons seemed very weak to me (and imo, there were about 4 or 5 different people who it would have made more sense to vote for), and so he would probably turn up civ. I think it's entirely luck we got him as a baddie. llama, on the other hand, seemed to genuinely believe BWT was a civ, and defended him like a civ who KNOWS another player getting lynched is a civ (I've done that, defending a civ BTSC teammate), not someone with an early game read of someone and just assuming their civ. Now from everything else he's said, llama seems to place a great more deal of importance on his early game reads then I do (the JC/LT comments just seemed... bizarre to me. Does your thought of one being bad and one being civ on N2 really matter in the grand scheme in a game with about... 34 people alive at that point?), but... that was an all out defense. I think he was expecting, if his teammate (BWT, if that wasn't obvious) did end up getting lynched, he would make the inevitable "Well, things sure don't look good for me now" comment, and then everyone would proceed to ignore him as a suspect (or at least trying to fit him into being on that team). I think that kind of play is exactly the sort llama would try and pull.

So, while I'm sad to break my Aces streak (who, btw, I still think is bad), have to vote llama this time.

(voting now because I go to sleep soon and won't be back for anything to change my vote happens. I think I've explained that in this game already, but just so it's nice and clear, yes, this is an early vote and I'm aware of that, but it's essentially a last-minute before the poll ends vote for me).

I think I'll need to reread the past day or so now because I might need to vote early today and haven't got much of an idea who I'd like to vote for yet. There's a couple of places I think might be worth a look but I need to go back and double check to make sure I've understood as I've been ill and sleep deprived for the past few days so haven't been completely up to speed with mafia.

Catching up right now. Will post more later.

Boo, my defense of BWT was a calculated risk. I knew I would get lynched if I turned out to be wrong, but if I had been right it would have made me look good, while at the same time hopefully sway people away from lynching a civ. I thought there was a more than 50% chance of the latter, so I gambled.

I don't resent any of your votes for me today, because I knew the chance I was taking and accept the consequences. If you do lynch me, however, I hope you get some good info from it.

*voting llama*

I'm somewhat surprised how many relatively early votes llama is getting.

Jumping on a bandwagon again

Let it be known that I will be voting for one of the llama voters.

Vompatti wrote:Let it be known that I will be voting for one of the llama voters.

Why is that I wonder?

Snow Dog wrote:

Vompatti wrote:Let it be known that I will be voting for one of the llama voters.

Why is that I wonder?

Is it because we're teammates and I'm trying to save him?

Vompatti, do you have a reason why you think llama is good?

Vompatti wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

Vompatti wrote:Let it be known that I will be voting for one of the llama voters.

Why is that I wonder?

Is it because we're teammates and I'm trying to save him?

There's a fine line between being intentionally vague, and just not taking it seriously.

Vompatti wrote:Let it be known that I will be voting for one of the llama voters.

A bit early to be saying that, don't you think? Unless you know something we don't.

Added: Basically what everyone else has been saying about it.

I feel like Llama and Vomps have been strongly hinting that they're on a civvie team together

Matahari wrote:Vompatti, do you have a reason why you think llama is good?

It seems that he's genuinely trying to find the baddies. I have a feeling he's wrong about bea though.

Vompatti wrote:

Matahari wrote:Vompatti, do you have a reason why you think llama is good?

It seems that he's genuinely trying to find the baddies. I have a feeling he's wrong about bea though.

I could not agree with you more, Vomp. Bea's not pinging me at all, even after rereading the arguments against her.

nutella wrote:I feel like Llama and Vomps have been strongly hinting that they're on a civvie team together

If so, what would be the purpose in disagreeing about Bea in the thread?

The last time someone said they strongly believed someone else was a civie, that person ended up being a baddie. So, you can understand my hesitation in believing you Vomps.

I see.

thellama73 wrote:Also Dom, the fact that I keep having new suspects has to do with the fact that things keep changing. I had one set of suspects before BWT flipped. Since he flipped bad and I was not expecting him to, that forced me to reevaluate. I was suspicious of Rob before, the flip made me think I was wrong, but Rob's actions since have made me think maybe I was right again. Lizzy has remained near the top of my list all game and I've been consistent in mentioning Hedgeowl and Nevinera, but have still not found anything concrete enough to warrant a vote on theme. Bea's vote timing made me suspect her enough to do a reread, in which I discovered things that make me think she's bad.

It goes against the grain to quote Keynes, but as he once said: "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?”

Quoting my second favorite economist won't earn you favors.

I just find it very.... switchereoo-y that when you thought Epig agreed with you, you no longer suspected him But when you found out he actually suspected you, you thought he was bad.

Matahari wrote:At this point it seems llama and epig are hellbent on lynching each other. Well epig is more hellbent than llama. Llama would be happy if epig would just back off. I think they may both be bad, but I'm planning to vote llama today. First BWT subtly vouched for him, then LT went after him and she was killed. Maybe someone else thought killing LT would throw susp at llama. But going with what seems more likely, llama did it.

Now jc was under susp from epig for defending BWT, and there seemed to be a bit of convo (that struck me as possibly staged- referring to the explanation of the llama gambit, when it had been explained in a game at rm where jc and llama had both played) between llama and jc in the thread. Maybe this is where epig comes in; nk jc, then lynch llama for the cred. I'll wait til tomorrow to vote, in case something earth shattering happens to change my mind.

This theory is plausible, I have gotten zero warm and fuzzies from Epig. However, one thing that I've noticed is what I said above. Epig seems to have an actual suspect, and Llama seems to be pointing out whatever's convenient.

Matahari wrote:Btw, Bea- I think your outlook regarding Gob is understandable. It does seem a bit convenient that he just shows up when you pushed a bit.

I agree. Is it enough to vote for him though this time around? I'm not sure.

Boo's case on llama was pretty convincing, to me anyway. I feel less confident now that llama is good, but I'm still not convinced a baddie llama would act like he has.

I'll be going with Lizzy again, I guess. I still think she's likely bad, and the fact that she hasn't posted since yesterday may be that she's letting suspicion of her blow over while llama gets lynched.

I also want to hear more from G.O.B., and Eloh. Curious to see who Vomps ends up going for, as well.