The Syndicate

I've been doing it in the style of Long Con. I don't know if that's "Syndicate style" or what... I guess I use my gut and look for tells.

Epignosis wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:LC, even if Epi is playing off. When has he ever gone bus route by default?

Two things.

First, I'm surprised LC suggested that. In my opinion, throwing a teammate under the bus in a two-mafia setup has a negative expected value. I don't practice that.

Second, people somehow think I'm some eager, crafty bus guy, when in reality, in all the Mafia games I have played as evil, I have intentionally thrown a teammate under the bus one time, and it was only out of the novelty of having never done it before. In Turf Wars I had to keep reminding my team that their job was to get civilians lynched, not each other.

I didn't say Epignosis is bussing anyone. Epi is the one getting bussed.

Epignosis wrote:And I'm not nervous, so I don't know why you keep bringing that up. The only time I get nervous in Mafia is near endgame, and this ain't endgame. I don't care if I get lynched because I like it when people think they have me figured out when in reality they don't know jack.

I see - when you are Civ, you don't mind getting lynched because you enjoy people being wrong about you. I get that, completely.

But, if you enjoy smugly making your voters wrong by letting them mislynch you... then why did you roleclaim?

Vote Epignosis

DrWilgy wrote:

Adam wrote:

DrWilgy wrote: How does that work in this environment?

I'm not entirely sure yet. That's really the fun of a crossover game, isn't it?

So, now instead of explaining the wagon with the most votes as a pressure, how about you tell me what you think of Gfish and Nifty? How do you feel about them being the only 2 voting with you?

They're both playing as I expect them to. Nifty's gotten a lot better recently with his tells and behaving consistently no matter his alignment. I started off reading him a little on the scum side, but I don't know if that's recency bias or not. Gfish has been playing loud, but nothing he's done so far is inconsistent with how he would play as town. He also tends to intentionally play as a scum-seeming townie, which provides him with cover when he's bad.

This role block of Epi tells me: Someone definitely role blocked (or attempted to role block) Epi

I see multiple scenarios for how gfish would act
1) If gfish was a town RB, I would expect him to call out Epi, especially if it was a one-shot RB
2) If gfish was mafia in a game with only one mafia, I don't think he would out the target of his RB because he knows it would be town
3) In this game with two mafias, and gfish was on one of the two mafias and thought he stopped the opposing mafia's kill with a RB, he would definitely fight full force to get that player lynched and be a successful scum hunter.

If in the end gfish had not backed off of Epi, I think he would be mafia, but based on how easily he let it go once Epi claimed, my inclination is that gfish is town.

Long Con wrote:But, if you enjoy smugly making your voters wrong by letting them mislynch you... then why did you roleclaim?

Vote Epignosis

I'm loving this dichotom. Epignosis claims and Realmers back off while Syndicate jumps on.

Here is a request to Syndicate folks: does someone want to take the lead in driving some discussion? I feel like I have been pushing conversation and posting like a madman - and now I'm either a high lynch candidate to some or a high town read to others.

Either way, I would love to see how Syndicate drive conversations and reads.

DrWilgy wrote:

Adam wrote:I am removing my vote from Epi and placing it on Raven

I want to see some more posts from IR.

How active is Raven normally?

More active than this, but I know he's pretty busy in real life. I don't think his lack of posting here is alignment-indicative at all.

Long Con wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:LC, even if Epi is playing off. When has he ever gone bus route by default?

Two things.

First, I'm surprised LC suggested that. In my opinion, throwing a teammate under the bus in a two-mafia setup has a negative expected value. I don't practice that.

Second, people somehow think I'm some eager, crafty bus guy, when in reality, in all the Mafia games I have played as evil, I have intentionally thrown a teammate under the bus one time, and it was only out of the novelty of having never done it before. In Turf Wars I had to keep reminding my team that their job was to get civilians lynched, not each other.

I didn't say Epignosis is bussing anyone. Epi is the one getting bussed.

Epignosis wrote:And I'm not nervous, so I don't know why you keep bringing that up. The only time I get nervous in Mafia is near endgame, and this ain't endgame. I don't care if I get lynched because I like it when people think they have me figured out when in reality they don't know jack.

I see - when you are Civ, you don't mind getting lynched because you enjoy people being wrong about you. I get that, completely.

But, if you enjoy smugly making your voters wrong by letting them mislynch you... then why did you roleclaim?

Vote Epignosis

I try to be polite and accommodating to our newer friends.

Im not done catching up yet, but I'm not entirely convinced on epi being innocent. Not opposed to JoH lynch either, however. I am waiting reply from a host regarding a question I have. I'll get back to you once I get done reading and receive a reply

gfishfunk wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:I agree with your analysis on Fred. Fred is only scum if someone counterclaims Joker (unlikely) or if Bob's role was forged (also unlikely?).

Whats forged? I don't think I've seen that term.

And no - the haircut guys couldn't get me in yet when I called them - but its going to look amazing.

Don't know if this was answered already, but this comes from my previous game in which a custom home brew role I made allowed the role in question to have someone's role reveal appear as something else.

Adam wrote:I am removing my vote from Epi and placing it on Raven

I want to see some more posts from IR.

I think we should opt to have him replaced soon if he doesn't show

Aaaand now my civ reads are murdering e/o

LC, imo Epi was floating what felt under radar earlier. Why would gfish default to bussing when he wasn't even a pivotal point of discussion?

sprityo wrote:

Adam wrote:I am removing my vote from Epi and placing it on Raven

I want to see some more posts from IR.

I think we should opt to have him replaced soon if he doesn't show

I believe he posted once during this phase so far.

Okay so I'm brief, just having caught up on my phone. The lynch for jack has talk in the start of today and then sorta declined in discussion with a Epi stealing center stage. SVS's logic , re: the color codes, is plausible and is much more acceptable than the whole "Epi was roleblocked + no nightkill = scum" albeit I'm not a huge fan of Eli's response to situation, it seems very...odd, or forced nonchalant.

As for yesterday, LC, I've removed suspicion from you for now, I've liked your contributions so far today. Also saw Dom just put some stuff. It seems in accordance to what Dom will say to someone so it doesn't really say anything to me about him.

As far as some of the HCR guys, I'm still not fully decided on my opinions on really any of them yet. Still trying to wrap my head around Gfish since I've been seeing him both posting and talked about in between the Epignosis debacle

Oh right, and in short I'll leave my vote on JoH until further notice

gfishfunk wrote:

sprityo wrote:

Adam wrote:I am removing my vote from Epi and placing it on Raven

I want to see some more posts from IR.

I think we should opt to have him replaced soon if he doesn't show

I believe he posted once during this phase so far.

3 times at the beginning of this phase in fact. I don't want him replaced yet.

Adam wrote:

gfishfunk wrote:

sprityo wrote:

Adam wrote:I am removing my vote from Epi and placing it on Raven

I want to see some more posts from IR.

I think we should opt to have him replaced soon if he doesn't show

I believe he posted once during this phase so far.

3 times at the beginning of this phase in fact. I don't want him replaced yet.

Ah, alright.

That's good at least, let's hope they can get in here more often, and soon.

Dom wrote:gfish when did you change your vote?


jack-- wh ywon't you play ball with me?

Originally because I misunderstood your beef and thought you were being ridiculous.

Currently cause I'm at work and swamped. Also you quoted like five people and I'm on mobile.

We can play later, though.


@Nut

Did you ever answer my question from yesterday? Pretend it was asked in a less aggressive way.

Sprit, I need thoughts on me, the 3 who voted epi (Nifty, Gfish, and Adam) right now.

@DrWilgy, I'm heading out to dinner, I'll answer as soon as I return

But off the top of my head without going back to check I believe you to be pretty town, with nifty and gfish as null or slight town, and Adam as null/slight scum.

Also I received a reply about my question, it isn't worth discussing is all I really need to say about the matter.

@JoH asked you a question yesterday, do you mind answering it still?

DrWilgy wrote:My primary concern with Hazelnut is her lack of content and her civ read of me.

Past games quick glance
Phenon > Nut is Civ > Reads me bad
Currents > Nut is civ > Unsure of me
Here > Nut is unknown > Town reads me

This is also with her knowing that I still want my revenge from phenon. (I didn't get it in currents, and even made it known that I missed my chance). Makes me think she doesn't want to fight me.

Her uncertainty d1 however, is something I'm used to with her.

I'd like to know why Gfish would hard claim role blocker with no doctor.

I'm reading you differently, that's all. I guess your style seems different, and maybe I've got it flipped and that means you're actually bad this time, but it doesn't feel that way.


Just caught up on a lot of discussion mostly centered around Epi, who I now pretty strongly believe is civ. I haven't liked gfish throughout this discussion, and maybe he's well intentioned but something feels, well, fishy about him. I also didn't like the way Adam joined in with the Epi vote. Felt fake/opportunistic. Not sure about NIfty, may be similar but I had more of a civ-ish read of him earlier so I should reread him.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Silver Lantern wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: Silver Lantern - too quiet, not enough reads, not enough anything but one (phoned in?) defensive rant. Looks like scum Silver. Shoulda pushed on him instead of Nut but boss was watching so I wasn't thorough. Like IR, I'm play with pushing him off until later cause I tend to be good at reading him.

Yep. Jack is definitely scum. The opposing mafia or the vig should kill him tonight.

Cause I think you're bad?

*POSTING AS I CATCH UP*

Sorry if I fail to play your BS rhetorical question game Jack. Do you really think that dumb mind trick is gonna work on me? Where is the Toydarian Gif...

How about you try to answer Dom's allegation of:

That's some bullshit.
You made a rainbow list in the quick reply?

bad.

Really liking Dom's aggresiveness.

S~V~S wrote:

Silver Lantern wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: Silver Lantern - too quiet, not enough reads, not enough anything but one (phoned in?) defensive rant. Looks like scum Silver. Shoulda pushed on him instead of Nut but boss was watching so I wasn't thorough. Like IR, I'm play with pushing him off until later cause I tend to be good at reading him.

Yep. Jack is definitely scum. The opposing mafia or the vig should kill him tonight.

In open setups we don't always role reveal an NK on death. The gameplay section on the first page says lynched roles are revealed, it says nothing about NKed roles.

We learn more from lynching than NKs if that is so. Do you guys usually play only closed set up games?

We do play only Closed Setups, and NKs are only hidden with a janitor role.

Our closed set-ups usually do not have all possible roles listed, and only reveal name + alignment upon death. Powers remain a mystery but are guessable.

Hmm...

Why hasn't MP utterly destroyed the post count in the thread yet?

Change of plans, no dinner for now.

May skip

I'll take a better look if you wish wilgy?

sprityo wrote:Change of plans, no dinner for now.

May skip

I'll take a better look if you wish wilgy?

Do you expect me to say no?

S~V~S wrote:

Silver Lantern wrote:

S~V~S wrote: So tell me the difference between *town* Silver defensiveness and overreaction and *baddie* Silver defensiveness and overreaction reaction. There must be one, and if he is town he will welcome it being put out there.

Nah SVS, I'm just too damn good for people to have a ready to order meta read on me of when I'm town vs when I am not.

I mean, are you seriously suggesting that there must be a quantifiable way to determine if I'm town or evil based on simple behavior anyone can pinpoint? And you claim that I would welcome that as town? No, I wouldn't welcome that as town because no one plays town all the time and only a lame-o who doesn't want a challenge would want such a thing to exist. What a load of garbage...

I was suggesting it because YOU said that was a tell for you. So yes, there could be a quantifiable difference from how you behave when sincere to how you behave when insincere. That is how I play, i look for insincerity and it's related behavioral markers. And I would think that if you DO have behavioral tells you would want to know about it so you could fix them and improve your baddie game.

But what do I know? I am apparently only a garbage peddler

Please quote for me where I say it was a tell for me. All I said is that having played a game with me (where I was Civ and him as maf) LC should not be surprised that I am overly defensive. It's just kinda my natural reaction to things, whether I am town or scum. I.e. it should not be indicative of alignment. He was saying it was suspicious, I was calling BS on his suspicion.

Gotta drive home so I will catch up later tonight, I am putting down a vote on Jack cause I do not want to miss another vote, and I am almost certain he is scum based on his game play up to where I've read.

DrWilgy wrote:

sprityo wrote:Change of plans, no dinner for now.

May skip

I'll take a better look if you wish wilgy?

Do you expect me to say no?

Out of the Laziness of my Heart, yeah...

Silver Lantern wrote:

Long Con wrote:Anyway, as I said, voting Silver Lantern. I didn't particularly like his response to my comments on the S~V~S thing.

I also am suspicious of Dizzy and Llama, for their "kill MP day 1" "jokes". Just reminds me too much of Macdougall in the Champs game, and the "joke" that fully meta-caught him.

You've already played a game with me, so either you didn't read anything I posted that game, or you're willfully ignoring my propensity and reputation for volatility. Either way, that's scummy behavior IMO.

@Silver, that up there, for one. You are saying it is your town tell I presumed, otherwise why would you say it?

There might have been more but I just got home, will bbl.

since everyone is silent but I can see Immortal_Raven thumbing through the thread, I thought I would move my vote to him for pressure.

Immortal_Raven, three questions:

1. Why do you think there was one kill last night rather than two?

2. Who has been the scummiest this phase?

3. Who has been the least scummiest this phase?

Keep in mind, my vote in talk-incentive not hell-or-highwater lynch just yet.

People who have voted for me so far.

gfishfunk
CaptainNifty
Adam
Long Con

gfishfunk wrote:since everyone is silent but I can see Immortal_Raven thumbing through the thread, I thought I would move my vote to him for pressure.

Immortal_Raven, three questions:

1. Why do you think there was one kill last night rather than two?

2. Who has been the scummiest this phase?

3. Who has been the least scummiest this phase?

Keep in mind, my vote in talk-incentive not hell-or-highwater lynch just yet.

Working on it. All of the color schemes for these boards are making my head hurt. Yes, I am recovering from surgery and not as lucid as I would like to be. 17 hours, 58 staples to close the wound. 2 titanium rods and 10 screws now permanently in my back all to remove a tumor about the size of a tube of toothpaste. But I digress.

1. I said there was one kill because one person died. That's math. I just don't see another attempt in the write-up. Given the game we both just played, that could be telling or not.

2. I still don't like Epignosis but that's because I hate time-wasting. If you have pressure, best to claim and help the town move to a better lynch candidate. It's not as bad under plurality voting, but still. I don't know his rep nor do half the players here.
Other suspicions are DrWilgy for calling out your play early.
Between SVS and JoH, I believe at least one is scum. They're taking pot shots at one another outside of the main discussion. I wouldn't mind seeing more there.
Adam and Nifty are making me a bit suspicious for helping clarify my situation. I can't tell if it's courtesy for a fellow Realmser or a "I know he's not scum, I'll give a somewhat town read and look good." They're at the bottom of my suspicion list.

3. Most town, gfish. Yes, I vomited a little bit there. It's too early for your power play if you're scum. I think you're like most Realms folks who will sell out if they're convinced they've caught scum. You'll probably get NKed soon, but a one for one trade in town and scum favors the town.
Fred and Dom are coming across as town reads as well. Fred for the claim and devil-may-care attitude. However, if I was going pure info dump, Fred trumps gfish slightly.

Long Con is all over the place for me. Half his posts make me think town. Half make me think "Hmmm, good cover".

Who defines what constitutes the "main discussion"?

And we don't typically claim if we can avoid it.

Immortal_Raven wrote:2. I still don't like Epignosis but that's because I hate time-wasting. If you have pressure, best to claim and help the town move to a better lynch candidate.

Is that really what's best?

I hate time-wasting too. We have something in common.

Sometimes though...time really isn't wasted. Maybe doing nothing for a while is the best thing to do.

Immortal_Raven wrote: Fred and Dom are coming across as town reads as well. Fred for the claim and devil-may-care attitude. However, if I was going pure info dump, Fred trumps gfish slightly.

I agree about Fred. Also, its a weirdly strong position because you can assume no one will attempt to kill him.

My vote is removed for now as you responded.

Anyone want to buy my vote today?

First come, first served.

Dyslexicon wrote:Anyone want to buy my vote today?

First come, first served.

How much? I'll pay you a compliment for it.

Epignosis wrote:People who have voted for me so far.

gfishfunk
CaptainNifty
Adam
Long Con

People who have listed their voters:

Epignosis

Dyslexicon wrote:Anyone want to buy my vote today?

First come, first served.

I'll trade you a nickle for that pickle.

Long Con wrote:

Epignosis wrote:People who have voted for me so far.

gfishfunk
CaptainNifty
Adam
Long Con

People who have listed their voters:

Epignosis

This could go on for a while.

Gfish, how is Raven's answer ok?

Immortal_Raven wrote:2. I still don't like Epignosis but that's because I hate time-wasting. If you have pressure, best to claim and help the town move to a better lynch candidate.

I actually have to disagree on this statement

Because before you know it, everyone is ripping their pants off and the game loses its suspense value really

I tend to think mafia is a high stakes game meant to be chance-y and claiming doesnt take ALL the fun out of it, but it's definitely a frowned upon thing

sprityo wrote:

Immortal_Raven wrote:2. I still don't like Epignosis but that's because I hate time-wasting. If you have pressure, best to claim and help the town move to a better lynch candidate.

I actually have to disagree on this statement

Because before you know it, everyone is ripping their pants off and the game loses its suspense value really

I tend to think mafia is a high stakes game meant to be chance-y and claiming doesnt take ALL the fun out of it, but it's definitely a frowned upon thing

I disagree with both of you.

Answer this question: How would we use said roleclaimed role info?

Dyslexicon wrote:Anyone want to buy my vote today?

First come, first served.

Hey qt. Wanna vote Raven or Gfish?

S~V~S wrote:Who defines what constitutes the "main discussion"?

And we don't typically claim if we can avoid it.

I define it as to what I perceive. Feel free to disagree. Apparently, that's what mafia games are about.

And Epig, different strokes. You don't know my play preferences and I don't know yours. Not claiming under pressure is a trigger for me. It may not be for you and sprityo makes a good point about not claiming willy nilly. However, you were front and center with the votes on you. It was shit or get off the pot time in my mind.

DrWilgy wrote:

sprityo wrote:

Immortal_Raven wrote:2. I still don't like Epignosis but that's because I hate time-wasting. If you have pressure, best to claim and help the town move to a better lynch candidate.

I actually have to disagree on this statement

Because before you know it, everyone is ripping their pants off and the game loses its suspense value really

I tend to think mafia is a high stakes game meant to be chance-y and claiming doesnt take ALL the fun out of it, but it's definitely a frowned upon thing

I disagree with both of you.

Answer this question: How would we use said roleclaimed role info?

Eliminate you from the list of suspects. Cross-check against other claims. Use a night action to verify if still suspicious. I tend to play more on info that gut or read. So if I've got a claim, that's a puzzle piece that I have. It's a black and white proposition in a game with 50 Shades of Grey (in keeping with the pants drop schtick) and that to me is very valuable, more valuable that a read I have on someone.