Outpost 31 {GAME OVER}

[DharmaHelper]

I want you exposed even if it means I have to die. I want the civs to finally get a bad guy and I think you are one of them.

If I'm wrong, I apologize.

I would tell you that perhaps I could trust you more if you actually torched a bad guy today, but even then, you could just be killing off the guy you know is one of your own to gain my trust. So...that won't work.

Goading me into torching you for the lulz won't work because I'm a civ and I'm actively looking to make the best decision to get us across the finish line, not make the decision that benefits me the most personally or proves a point or w/e.

[Elohcin]

Good for you. I hope that's true.

it is 10:14 and someone is mowing their lawn!

[DharmaHelper]

Eloh -

Assume a few things here, namely:

1. I'm a civ
2. I'm not going to torch you today
3. I'm not going to torch INH solely because his 16 posts contain an anomalous amount of participation in y our view.

Given those ideas to play around with, explain to me who you want me to torch. You tunneled on Luna and biffed. Tunneling on me this late in the game, particularly when I have the flamethrower, is just not conducive to a civilian win.

[Elohcin]

I think DDL could be flying under the radar. Wilgy could always be bad. But... he's not been around and we've only had one missed kill. From their gameplay, I think Jack, colin, and TH are good. They feel genuine to me.

[DharmaHelper]

I've been making regular, big ass posts about each player with in-depth reads.

You guys only have to do that once, for 6 players each.

I believe in all of you.

[ColinIsCool]

I will strongly do my best to case people first thing tomorrow morning.

[DharmaHelper]

[Elohcin]

I don't think you have the right to tell me how to play, DH. I don't have that much time to devote to mafia. I shouldn't be punished for that. If I am...so be it.

[DharmaHelper]

I don't think you have the right to tell me how to play, DH. I don't have that much time to devote to mafia. I shouldn't be punished for that. If I am...so be it.

If you don't have the time in a 24 hour period to tell me why I should or shouldn't lynch 6 people, OK.

[Elohcin]

Isn't that what I just did a few posts up?

[DharmaHelper]

Isn't that what I just did a few posts up?

So you admit you DO have the time.

Busted.

[Elohcin]

Har. Dee. Har. Har. Har.

Not to ISO everyone.

I will try to get in here for some conversation time. Hopefully others will be in here too. On Saturdays I grocery shop at two different stores and today we have a family smash Bros tournament.

DDL...where have you been and what do you have to say for yourself?

INH...why were you so connected in the beginning of the game and now you are barely here like I knownyou to usually be?

DH...when will you drop the bullying act and act like a real leader? When you're actually civ? Okay...show me THAT.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Eloh -

Assume a few things here, namely:

1. I'm a civ
2. I'm not going to torch you today
3. I'm not going to torch INH solely because his 16 posts contain an anomalous amount of participation in y our view.

Given those ideas to play around with, explain to me who you want me to torch. You tunneled on Luna and biffed. Tunneling on me this late in the game, particularly when I have the flamethrower, is just not conducive to a civilian win.

Reverse psychology?

[ColinIsCool]

DharmaHelper

I am generally suspicious of any player that tries to position themselves as a town-leader for reasons that I don't fully understand (maybe I should start seeing my counselor again and ask her about it.) However, in the context of this game (low-posting, nobody else around to challenge the throne) there really is no need for a scumDH to act in such a manner. I could be getting fooled, but I'll try to find some posts to demonstrate why I think DH is town going into this ISO.

P.S Killing inactives particularly with this set-up is a great idea please do it.

Why particularly with this set-up?

Because there are no power roles meaning the only tools we have are in the thread, working together to suss out the assimilated. If someones NOT here doing that, they're weighing us down.

And if they happen to be bad and they miss a kill, we're not stuck wondering if a kill didn't go through because of an inactive or because of a friendly-fire scenario, which when THAT happens, dramatically shifts the game.

This is an example of extremely pro-town mechanical thinking. A scum that realizes this would probably keep that to themselves so as to not cede the advantage, no matter how much it makes them look town.

pls participate.

We have seen, very recently in fact, that a scum DH will not act solely in the interests of game health. The team in Mega Man (DH among them) was perfectly happy to let inactivity take its toll on the town so long as it smoothed their path to victory. A quiet thread is great for scum because if everybody's lurking, nobody's lurking and nobody's accusing you of anything — but it's pretty awful for a townie who wants to lynch scum.

I remembered doing this that DH has the flamethrower so I'm not even going to go past page 1 of this ISO. I may revisit at future phases, but unless somebody can provide a case otherwise, DH is locktown right now.

[ColinIsCool]

DDL

I thought DDL in Firefly was scum for a week, and I was gravely mistaken. DDL in that game was kind of all over the place, changing his mind and doing things that generally appeared uncalculated. Does that meta hold up here?

Oh I just realized self-voting is forbidden.

Hmm

random.org gave me Dr. Wilgy.

This to me seems totally earnest. A random vote is so poorly reasoned that I don't know if a scum runs the risk of exposing themselves as literally saying "IDK, whomever"

I don't give a damn about your thought process for choosing who to kill.

I care about the fact you didn't show any interest in reading who was civ and who was mafia.

When people were having that discussion, you avoided it. And when they prompted you for reads, you refused.

I feel the townie conviction in this.

Nova feels strangely absent I think he's normally a bigger pain in the ass.

INH, Colin, Eloh are all a big blob of unreadableness.

Need to see more of Jack and Wilgy but I liked what was given so far.

Sprityo is bordering on too scummy to be scum status. He's self-destructing. I hate when people who do that because it's hardly alignment indicative yet leaves us with no options.

Normally I'm not a fan of reads-lists where someone rattles off a bunch of civs (see the post preceding this one), some who-knows and one scum because I know I've made that post as scum before — it's way too easy to TMI and give town credit to people who are town, and way harder to voice grievances against people that you know aren't. However, I can empathize with that feeling in this game to an extent, and the scum don't even necessarily know who is and isn't scum anyway, so DDL actually gets cred here.

There's not that much else there which brings the possibility of scum lurking beneath the surface of the thread — something I think that is very likely, given nobody's being pressed very much — but for now, townlean on DDL, don't flamethrow.

[ColinIsCool]

Wilgy has 5 posts. The main one is this:

On a serious note, the mafia is gonna organize votes to give it to them

Our best option is talking it out and picking three people we should give it to

First post that caught my eye. This post is horseshit.

Why do you want the flamethrower chuck?

I know that I am civ, and I have been force-fed humility over the last few games I've played with this alignment. I have purposed myself to go along with the thread consensus, instead of trusting my gut and striking out vigilante-style.
Quite frankly, I can see a lot of players yelling "None of you know what you're talking about!" and just roasting their own biggest suspect.

So I want the flamethrower because I don't trust you guys to trust the rest of you guys. Collectively. If that makes sense.

This post is horseshit for similar reasons. "I want to win" is the same statement here. Trusting only yourself is a concept built into the game mechanics. Choices that cause you to trust others is what brings about truths and lies.

At this point I blind voted Sprityo, saw that I was voting in tangent with TH and vocalized the word "fuck."

Poutanko... What strange entity are you? Are you an astrological horror from another relm?

Nice reads DH but why is it alphabetized til Elo Mac and Wilgy are tacked on at the end?

Cuz Eloh's ISO link on the main page is boinked and Doc and Mac are doofus-reads.

And i guess DH is civ. Dumb.

Then luna votes me bc of DHs reasons. I'd be surprised if she is good. I'm voting for her.

Why though?

Elo vs Luna feels like town vs town

Why though?

And that is the end of day 1. Interesting. For some reason I don't feel good about Eloh, cant pin point it though. Perhaps I dislike I didn't feel where her thoughts were coming from was genuine... But I think that came from a lack of in depth linking and explaining which is normal for Eloh.

Sprityo is bad. I'm leaving my vote there for now... Even though he's a Komaeda fan too... Ouif...

I'm not sure if there is much to be gleamed here either way. The quibbling about mechanics seems like something that is NAI, but overall, this isn't a post that does much in the way of assigning alignment or taking stances. He doesn't feel good about Eloh for ???, and is more concerned with posing questions in all directions with no clear determination as to why. Wilgy is definitely a candidate, imo, but not one I feel great about.

[ColinIsCool]

Worth noting: with the level of inactivity Wilgy seems to be presenting, the first kill on N1 could have been an unsent PM.

[DharmaHelper]

DH...when will you drop the bullying act and act like a real leader? When you're actually civ? Okay...show me THAT.

The bullying act is something you made up.

[ColinIsCool]

Elohcin

[VOTE: MacDougall] aubergine
because he hasn't shown up yet, so why not?

And what if he ia civ? That's a stupid reason to vote him so soon. Give the guy a chance and go after someone you think is bad. Unless you are bad and are just trying to get rid of people you think could be civ. Maybe that's it

This is the root of Eloh's tunneling on Luna, and I don't know exactly how I feel about it. Seems like a stretch to me — that "Unless" is doing a lot of work in that sentence to get to a conclusion that is supported by a breadcrumb of a suspicion, but not enough (for me personally anyway) to say "gotcha!"

Is it normal for Lunalee to post something and then no continuation on whatever she posted before?

Not normally. And the weirder thing is that she came in right after you said that and began talking. And in her post, she says she voted Mac bc she didn't know who to vote for. I'm not sure I trust that or her.

Further developing against Luna, this is more reasonable.

Calling dibs on casing Elohcin.

I will ask again...why are you so hell-bent on me? You aren't even around here much and you wanna keep coming after me with no explanations. Stop being weird and get your head in the game.

Because I think you are bad. What does "you aren't even around here much" mean? Does that fact mean that I shouldn't have any scum read nor vote or go after anyone?

I'm also pretty sure I've been here as much as you have, if not more.

You are like a kid saying he doesn't like the dinner set before him. Mom asks, "how do you know you don't like it?" Kid say, "Because I don't." Taste the damn food and you may like it, or at least have REASONS why you don't. You don't have reasons for thinking I am bad. At least ISO me and see. You may find you think I'm good.

Really can't decide how I feel about this either. It sounds like that scumtell of getting frustrated with/arguing the logic of an accusation rather than addressing why it's not correct. (I know that might not make any sense, because I can't figure out exactly how to phrase it, but I think at least some of you will know what I mean.) "If you're going to peg me as scum, you better do it for the right reasons, not bad ones."

For all of you wondering... I've been real with y'all this whole time. My thoughts/posts of luna were not fake. I am not often good with finding mafia. I really thought I had her pegged this time. Now that she turned out bad, I feel like I'm starting over and it seems a bit daunting. I really think nova is just a misguided civ, as I've said before, so I can't go after him. My gut tells me DH is bad and his whole "Do what Negan says" crap felt like a baddie trying to get control of the thread. I didn't mention this back when because I you all seemed to trust and do whatever thr hell he wanted. I may emd up voting for him today. But we'll see. We have time.

So each time a kill is missed, it can only be cause scum shot scum right?

So there’s almost an actual mafia at this point.

It could also mean inactive mafia.

I don't like the "I didn't mention this back ..." portion of the paragraph. Regardless of who has the flamethrower, I would think a townie who doesn't would want to get any and all suspicions out on the table, since you never know if you're going to get snuffed — ESPECIALLY if someone you apparently don't trust has the keys.

The more civs we lose, the more I think I'm right. Can we just stop and think for a minute that the people we think we can trust (whoever that is for each of you) could be that bad guys. What I mean is....maybe we should kind of start from scratch, re-evaluate. Who do you trust most? Vote THAT person.

My concern with this sort of thinking is that Eloh doesn't appear to be practicing what she preaches.

it is 10:14 and someone is mowing their lawn!

This is criminal!

I have felt decently about Eloh all game but this ISO has me changing my mind. I think she can join Wilgy as a suspect and on stronger grounds.

[ColinIsCool]

DH...when will you drop the bullying act and act like a real leader? When you're actually civ? Okay...show me THAT.

The bullying act is something you made up.

Raise your hand if you've ever felt victimized by DharmaHelper

[DharmaHelper]

DH...when will you drop the bullying act and act like a real leader? When you're actually civ? Okay...show me THAT.

The bullying act is something you made up.

Raise your hand if you've ever felt victimized by DharmaHelper

[ColinIsCool]

INH

Kinda feel like speed was trying to get the flamethrower and do that democracy thing because he’s bad and wanted town cred for a long con

But Long Con isn't even playing this game?

Real talk tho: Speed's D0 campaigning strike me as exactly what civ Speed would do. He's my strongest read right now. All of my other opinions are clouded in ambiguity and he-said, she-said.

Knowing what we do know about speed, this (and other posts surrounding it singing the praises of speed) seem kind of TMIy. On the other hand, in plenty of other games (Courage and the one that ran simultaneous with that, I think?) I've seen INH assign town reads as town much more than scum reads.

I guess I just, I dunno expect more from Colin as a civilian. And by more, I mean literally anything of substance. A literal iota of effort towards solving the game. Instead, there's shrug emojis and flip-flops.
[/list]

This feels like a genuine assessment to me. My participation ain't what she used to be unfortunately, but if scumINH thought I was scum, I don't think he would go so hard in the paint against me, unless he reaaaaally felt like he had to bus to get ahead.

I keep reading this post over and over again, and it just keeps not making sense.

OTOH, INH does this thing a lot (look at his posts against me) where he waves away things as "not making sense" and that's the end of that ... even if it seems to clearly make sense at face-value. That seems more like a scum trying to get points-against wherever he can more than a townie who truly struggles to understand what people are saying.

I also don't feel good about how INH keeps mentioning me as a suspect and went to the effort of casing me earlier, but hasn't done much about it since. When I think someone is bad, I will tunnel them relentlessly (see: nova, speed) if I really am convinced. But INH does not seem convinced.

INH is a toss-up. I need to re-evaluate what I saw in Jack's posts about him to be sure.

[ColinIsCool]

Jack

Like if I’m scum and the only way I can die is to be lynched and there’s a mechanic to prevent that, I’m trying to use that mechanic as often as possible.

Yes, getting the flamethrower can be protown but it is certainly not a thing only townies do.

Notice that Jack isn't doing that?

I’m fine with not having a hall pass but anyone who uses reasoning like “Jack is much quieter than usual. Therefore he is scum” should be torched for opportunism because I’m generally super active as a scum or 3P player. I’m fact, SK is one of my very favorite roles and if anything, I’d be extra engaged if I was bad.

I feel this, and tonally, it feels earnest. The MYLO confusion that took place a few posts later does too fwiw.

INH’s iso is super short. He has opinions and he has reasoning for his opinions but they’re all pretty surface and mostly two phases old.

Like he’s after me for the Speedchuck burn but he’s made exactly one post about Speed, which was on Day 1. Him silently holding onto this read for three days and making a push based on it feels disingenuous.

His Colin case is okay. Like it’s not convincing but it feels okay. He (in his own words) “lazily” votes Colin again and that’s about it. He doesn’t really pursue the read.

I’d say maybe 60-70% chance INH is scum.

Yeah okay, I like this a lot.

Jack's in the town basket and INH is downgraded to scum basket.

[ColinIsCool]

Gonna go and probably can't do TH but I have no idea how to read TH to begin with and will follow them to the ends of the Earth regardless, so,

[VOTE: INH] aubergine

[Turnip Head]

I don't think Elo would keep poking DH like this if she were bad. Doesn't make much sense to spend your time attacking the one guy who's unlynchable, unless you really mean it

[Turnip Head]

Reason I'm voting Jack is cuz I felt like he half-assed yesterday by his own standards. I watched Jack hunt speedchuck down like a bloodhound in Mega Man. To see him sort of nonchalantly dispatch him here rings false. There was fire but no fuel

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Har. Dee. Har. Har. Har.

Not to ISO everyone.

I will try to get in here for some conversation time. Hopefully others will be in here too. On Saturdays I grocery shop at two different stores and today we have a family smash Bros tournament.

DDL...where have you been and what do you have to say for yourself?

INH...why were you so connected in the beginning of the game and now you are barely here like I knownyou to usually be?

DH...when will you drop the bullying act and act like a real leader? When you're actually civ? Okay...show me THAT.

What do you mean, "where have you been"? Playing mafia. Playing RPGs. Studying.

Right now the biggest thing I have to say is that I think you're bad.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

DH...when will you drop the bullying act and act like a real leader? When you're actually civ? Okay...show me THAT.

The bullying act is something you made up.

Raise your hand if you've ever felt victimized by DharmaHelper

Not in this game.

[insertnamehere]

I'm taking a page out of Colin's book and possibly doing a bit of a flippity flop on him after reading over his ISO activity over the last few phases. I do quite like his analysis that he's offered up today. It's the kind of thing I've been wanting from him the entire game.

There's one thing that I'd like some clarification on.

INH’s iso is super short. He has opinions and he has reasoning for his opinions but they’re all pretty surface and mostly two phases old.

Like he’s after me for the Speedchuck burn but he’s made exactly one post about Speed, which was on Day 1. Him silently holding onto this read for three days and making a push based on it feels disingenuous.

His Colin case is okay. Like it’s not convincing but it feels okay. He (in his own words) “lazily” votes Colin again and that’s about it. He doesn’t really pursue the read.

I’d say maybe 60-70% chance INH is scum.

Yeah okay, I like this a lot.

Jack's in the town basket and INH is downgraded to scum basket.

Jack's "case" against me is itself pretty goddamn surface. Like I said before, it's all either dismissive gut reads or stuff about me not "pursuing reads" and "silently holding onto" opinions which can be easily explained by me not having a ton of mafia time over the time period that JoH is complaining about. I cannot see how anyone other than JoH can really see merit in it.

Colin, what about this post is compelling enough to you to merit scumreading me and townreading JoH because of it?

[DharmaHelper]

Voted for TH so I don't get modkilled. I'll be back later

[Turnip Head]

Voted for TH so I don't get modkilled. I'll be back later

But that's me

[DharmaHelper]

Yeah and now its a big ol tie which I like.

[insertnamehere]

Har. Dee. Har. Har. Har.

Not to ISO everyone.

I will try to get in here for some conversation time. Hopefully others will be in here too. On Saturdays I grocery shop at two different stores and today we have a family smash Bros tournament.

DDL...where have you been and what do you have to say for yourself?

INH...why were you so connected in the beginning of the game and now you are barely here like I knownyou to usually be?

DH...when will you drop the bullying act and act like a real leader? When you're actually civ? Okay...show me THAT.

Elohcin has had these strongly held beliefs about certain players which are utterly unjustified and don't really make sense. Nevertheless, she ignores everyone else's logic and plunges forward.

Things like:

- "DH is a bully blowhard." He isn't. He's probably the person trying the most in this game, and Elo has been constantly criticizing him the entire game for weaksauce reasons.
- "I'm usually low-activity. I was crazily active near the start of this game, and then reduced my activity." This is patently false. I don't really think I have an "activity meta." It depends on how much shit I have going on in my life. Very similar to how Elo talks about how she has things going on in her life which prevent her from posting often. I also have no idea how Elo interpreted my play early in this game as hyper-active supatown type stuff. ISO me and see for yourselves.
- That everyone else is hopelessly misguided and Elohcin has the only true unbiased perspective, and we all need to either get on her wavelength or accept defeat. Also, Elo will not compromise on her own opinions.

This shit is wack. Wack, I say. She falls into the baddie trap of seemingly starting with strong opinions about players and working backwards to come up with BS reasons for them.

All of her interactions with DH today have been fishy as hell. Right now, she's my strongest suspect.

[VOTE: elohcin] aubergine

[DharmaHelper]

Lots to consider.

[Turnip Head]

Lots to consider.

[Turnip Head]

DH I'm sweatin' a little. I didn't think you actually suspected me tbh, do you just want to watch me squirm?

[DharmaHelper]

DH I'm sweatin' a little. I didn't think you actually suspected me tbh, do you just want to watch me squirm?

My vote's there so I don't get dinged for not voting.

[Turnip Head]

um okay. okay.

[Turnip Head]

So then what're you thinking m'boy. I seem to be alone in suspecting Jack. Do you have a decisive read on Elohcin or INH?

[Turnip Head]

nvm I'm gonna die

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Jack/INH looks like civ/civ

But the civ ratio in this game is so low that doesn't make me very confident.

[ColinIsCool]

Jack's "case" against me is itself pretty goddamn surface. Like I said before, it's all either dismissive gut reads or stuff about me not "pursuing reads" and "silently holding onto" opinions which can be easily explained by me not having a ton of mafia time over the time period that JoH is complaining about. I cannot see how anyone other than JoH can really see merit in it.

Colin, what about this post is compelling enough to you to merit scumreading me and townreading JoH because of it?

The part about holding onto the suspicion without really acting on it, I guess, seems to resonate. That's how I feel about your approach to me as well and it's generally the kind of thing that doesn't seem town, which I think is a point I made earlier.

[ColinIsCool]

Reason I'm voting Jack is cuz I felt like he half-assed yesterday by his own standards. I watched Jack hunt speedchuck down like a bloodhound in Mega Man. To see him sort of nonchalantly dispatch him here rings false. There was fire but no fuel

I sort of see that. I don't really know what scum Jack looks like I think?

[ColinIsCool]

Does anybody else have thoughts toward Wilgy? Is it possible to have thoughts toward Wilgy?

[DharmaHelper]

Does anybody else have thoughts toward Wilgy? Is it possible to have thoughts toward Wilgy?

I don't think Wilgy is an inactive baddie. :/

[Elohcin]

Elohcin

[VOTE: MacDougall] aubergine
because he hasn't shown up yet, so why not?

And what if he ia civ? That's a stupid reason to vote him so soon. Give the guy a chance and go after someone you think is bad. Unless you are bad and are just trying to get rid of people you think could be civ. Maybe that's it

This is the root of Eloh's tunneling on Luna, and I don't know exactly how I feel about it. Seems like a stretch to me — that "Unless" is doing a lot of work in that sentence to get to a conclusion that is supported by a breadcrumb of a suspicion, but not enough (for me personally anyway) to say "gotcha!"

Is it normal for Lunalee to post something and then no continuation on whatever she posted before?

Not normally. And the weirder thing is that she came in right after you said that and began talking. And in her post, she says she voted Mac bc she didn't know who to vote for. I'm not sure I trust that or her.

Further developing against Luna, this is more reasonable.

Okay. Yes, I was after luna. I seriously thought she was bad. SO....I pointed out all the things I saw from her that I thought were bad. I didn't let up, because I thought she was bad. This doesn;t mean luna was the only person I talked about.

Calling dibs on casing Elohcin.

I will ask again...why are you so hell-bent on me? You aren't even around here much and you wanna keep coming after me with no explanations. Stop being weird and get your head in the game.

Because I think you are bad. What does "you aren't even around here much" mean? Does that fact mean that I shouldn't have any scum read nor vote or go after anyone?

I'm also pretty sure I've been here as much as you have, if not more.

You are like a kid saying he doesn't like the dinner set before him. Mom asks, "how do you know you don't like it?" Kid say, "Because I don't." Taste the damn food and you may like it, or at least have REASONS why you don't. You don't have reasons for thinking I am bad. At least ISO me and see. You may find you think I'm good.

Really can't decide how I feel about this either. It sounds like that scumtell of getting frustrated with/arguing the logic of an accusation rather than addressing why it's not correct. (I know that might not make any sense, because I can't figure out exactly how to phrase it, but I think at least some of you will know what I mean.) "If you're going to peg me as scum, you better do it for the right reasons, not bad ones."

You may think this (underlined) is a silly way to think, but yeah...I think this way. I honestly wasn't trying to convey that in my posts, but it is something that is a HUGE pet peeve of mine. Have you ever been bad and been lynched because of reasons that were not of your doing or out of your control? To be bad and be lynches because you goofed....cool...I'm okay with that. But when people just take a wild guess and lynch you as a baddie, it can be unnerving. However....I am NOT bad/independant/assimilated here so this doesn't apply here.

For all of you wondering... I've been real with y'all this whole time. My thoughts/posts of luna were not fake. I am not often good with finding mafia. I really thought I had her pegged this time. Now that she turned out bad, I feel like I'm starting over and it seems a bit daunting. I really think nova is just a misguided civ, as I've said before, so I can't go after him. My gut tells me DH is bad and his whole "Do what Negan says" crap felt like a baddie trying to get control of the thread. I didn't mention this back when because I you all seemed to trust and do whatever thr hell he wanted. I may emd up voting for him today. But we'll see. We have time.

So each time a kill is missed, it can only be cause scum shot scum right?

So there’s almost an actual mafia at this point.

It could also mean inactive mafia.

I don't like the "I didn't mention this back ..." portion of the paragraph. Regardless of who has the flamethrower, I would think a townie who doesn't would want to get any and all suspicions out on the table, since you never know if you're going to get snuffed — ESPECIALLY if someone you apparently don't trust has the keys.

I am very careful what I say when I play mafia. Anything I say can and has been skewed for get me lynched and most of those times, I was civ and many of those times it was early in the game. If I think something will make me look bad, I don't often say it. I only brought up DH as bad once I felt like I needed to in order to help the civs.

The more civs we lose, the more I think I'm right. Can we just stop and think for a minute that the people we think we can trust (whoever that is for each of you) could be that bad guys. What I mean is....maybe we should kind of start from scratch, re-evaluate. Who do you trust most? Vote THAT person.

My concern with this sort of thinking is that Eloh doesn't appear to be practicing what she preaches.
I have been looking at everyone. You guys seems to be blindly following certain people. I am not. I do not have anyone to stop blindly following.

it is 10:14 and someone is mowing their lawn!

This is criminal!

I have felt decently about Eloh all game but this ISO has me changing my mind. I think she can join Wilgy as a suspect and on stronger grounds.

You can think what you want. I am civ. I thinks civs will lose this game, unfortunately.

linki I have to read later

[ColinIsCool]

Eloh, who do you think is bad?

[insertnamehere]

Jack's "case" against me is itself pretty goddamn surface. Like I said before, it's all either dismissive gut reads or stuff about me not "pursuing reads" and "silently holding onto" opinions which can be easily explained by me not having a ton of mafia time over the time period that JoH is complaining about. I cannot see how anyone other than JoH can really see merit in it.

Colin, what about this post is compelling enough to you to merit scumreading me and townreading JoH because of it?

The part about holding onto the suspicion without really acting on it, I guess, seems to resonate. That's how I feel about your approach to me as well and it's generally the kind of thing that doesn't seem town, which I think is a point I made earlier.

It's not like I disregarded my own suspicions. I'm not really sure what you mean by "really acting on it." That's one of those nonsense terms that's hard to actually define. Are you annoyed that I didn't storm into the thread and SUPATOWN all over people, making case against case to get my suspicions lynched? That's fairly stupid as barely anyone has engaged in that kind of behavior for the duration of this game, including yourself. I posted comparatively less about my suspicions during a couple of phases because I was busy in real life, and didn't have oodles of time to post. I don't think that's a smoking gun RE: scumminess.

[DharmaHelper]

[mention]Elohcin[/mention] - Not to belabor the point but could you cite specific examples of

- "DH is bullying the thread"

- "You people are blindly following people you shouldn't"

[ColinIsCool]

Jack's "case" against me is itself pretty goddamn surface. Like I said before, it's all either dismissive gut reads or stuff about me not "pursuing reads" and "silently holding onto" opinions which can be easily explained by me not having a ton of mafia time over the time period that JoH is complaining about. I cannot see how anyone other than JoH can really see merit in it.

Colin, what about this post is compelling enough to you to merit scumreading me and townreading JoH because of it?

The part about holding onto the suspicion without really acting on it, I guess, seems to resonate. That's how I feel about your approach to me as well and it's generally the kind of thing that doesn't seem town, which I think is a point I made earlier.

It's not like I disregarded my own suspicions. I'm not really sure what you mean by "really acting on it." That's one of those nonsense terms that's hard to actually define. Are you annoyed that I didn't storm into the thread and SUPATOWN all over people, making case against case to get my suspicions lynched? That's fairly stupid as barely anyone has engaged in that kind of behavior for the duration of this game, including yourself. I posted comparatively less about my suspicions during a couple of phases because I was busy in real life, and didn't have oodles of time to post. I don't think that's a smoking gun RE: scumminess.

It feels as if you've been voicing a suspicion, then putting it down, then picking it back up when it's convenient. I'll give you that maybe it's just a difference in approach/playstyle between us, but I think scum are more likely to do that because they A. don't particularly care which townies get lynched, and B. aren't making actual cases (99% of the time, this game again is sliiiightly different)