The Syndicate

a2thezebra wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:I've yet to hear a convincing argument for my baddieness, amigo.

Day 1: Defended Matt
Day 2: Pushed Floyd's lynch to save Matt
Day 3: Voted against Matt's lynch
Day 4: Defended Scotty and voted in a way that might have saved him.

Is that not enough?

No. It's illogical. Do you remember what I actually did on Day 2 aside from the very end? I went hard advocating for Matt's lynch while providing little-to-no argument as to why besides him possibly being saved Day 1. I only went after Floyd at the very end, and since most of the Matt's votes that ended up on Floyd were only there in the first place because of my confidence, that basically means that on Day 2 I saved Matt from myself. Other than that, all you have is a shitty voting record. I know I can't prove this to you, but I'll say it anyway: if I was bad and knew who my teammates were then my voting record would be significantly better. So I've still yet to hear a convincing argument.

Saved Matt from yourself? There were very good reasons to want to lynch Matt on day 2 and I don't believe that your 'confidence' was that big of a deal. The fact remains you're responsible for defending two baddies and for pushing the lynch of an important civ. As far as I'm concerned your behaviour in relation to the two confirmed baddies makes you the best candidate for their teammate and therefore: *Votes Zebra*.

I am having troubles getting past that whole "trusted civ" thing plus you saying you are following me, rather than following a suspicion you seemed to feel more strongly about than I felt about Wilgy. So taking a leap of faith here.

Sorry if I am wrong, but moving it to Zebra.

Day 1
Floyd 1 : nutella (3)
Nutella 1 : Epignosis (10)
DFaraday 6 : Scotty (4), DrWilgy (7), Typhoony (13), Matt (14), a2thezebra (15), Long Con (18)
Matt 5 : S~V~S (8), Sorsha (9), TheFloyd73 (11), Bullzeye (12), DFaraday (17)

Day 2
Zebra 4 : DrWilgy (2), Scotty (6), Matt (10), nutella (11)
Floyd 5 : Epignosis (12), a2thezebra (13), Typhoony (14), Long Con (15), S~V~S (16)
Matt 2 : TheFloyd73 (3), Bullzeye (4)
S~V~S 1 : Sorsha (9)

Day 3
Zebra 1 : nutella (5)
Matt 8 : Epignosis (4), Sorsha (7), Bullzeye (8), Scotty (9), S~V~S (10), DrWilgy (11), Typhoony (12), Matt (14)
Epignosis : 1 a2thezebra (3)

Day 4
Zebra 1 : Epignosis (14)
DrWilgy 3 :nutella (3), a2thezebra (6), Scotty (9)
Scotty 4 : Typhoony (2), S~V~S (4), Bullzeye (8), DrWilgy (12)

This just in! Zebra has never voted for a confirmed baddie, also based upon vote time/count Zebra broke a day 1 tie in favor of Dfaraday's lynch over Matt's at one point.

This is a travesty.

If I'm going to be lynched for being me then I'd prefer it done early. Three votes and I still haven't been given anything to defend against.

Sometimes that just happens. It's a meta gestalt thing.

I'm fine with that, what I'm not fine with is that it took five days for it to happen. If I'm naturally scummy to enough people that I'm going to get lynched eventually just for doing what I do, then I'd prefer it happen Day 1 at a less crucial time. If we're seriously going to spend the next twenty-four hours with me as the top lynch candidate then let's at least look at who should be the next target when I flip civilian. Don't let the real baddies coast to the end game, especially since we've been lucky enough to get two of them already.

If that's what you wpuld like to do.

My order is Nutella, Epi, SVS, Bullz.

Why S~V~S ahead of Bullz?

Bullz's voting record is better.

a2thezebra wrote:I'm fine with that, what I'm not fine with is that it took five days for it to happen. If I'm naturally scummy to enough people that I'm going to get lynched eventually just for doing what I do, then I'd prefer it happen Day 1 at a less crucial time. If we're seriously going to spend the next twenty-four hours with me as the top lynch candidate then let's at least look at who should be the next target when I flip civilian. Don't let the real baddies coast to the end game, especially since we've been lucky enough to get two of them already.

Awesome, lets talk about that. I had some very clear ideas, and you have seemed to be on a totally different page from everyone from the start, when you look back on it.

Maybe that is you being you. I don't know that. My main experience with you is from your old self, and from watching you for the most part as a mod or, to a lesser extent, as a host.

Linki, who cares about the last 2 out of 4?Lets stick to the top two on our lists.

Now see Zebra, that post seemed like you trying to get me worked up against Wilgy.

We are not talking about who we want to lynch in 3 days, we are talking about today.

S~V~S wrote:We are not talking about who we want to lynch in 3 days, we are talking about today.

I mean... It's better than Zebra locking up... If I'm wrong I want Zebra to contribute as much as possible before the lynch.

zebra, you pressured me into saving Scotty, while making anything I could possibly do except vote Wilgy as saving Wilgy. That's a case against you.

Talk about that.

S~V~S wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:I'm fine with that, what I'm not fine with is that it took five days for it to happen. If I'm naturally scummy to enough people that I'm going to get lynched eventually just for doing what I do, then I'd prefer it happen Day 1 at a less crucial time. If we're seriously going to spend the next twenty-four hours with me as the top lynch candidate then let's at least look at who should be the next target when I flip civilian. Don't let the real baddies coast to the end game, especially since we've been lucky enough to get two of them already.

Awesome, lets talk about that. I had some very clear ideas, and you have seemed to be on a totally different page from everyone from the start, when you look back on it.

Maybe that is you being you. I don't know that. My main experience with you is from your old self, and from watching you for the most part as a mod or, to a lesser extent, as a host.

Linki, who cares about the last 2 out of 4?Lets stick to the top two on our lists.

Interesting that you want to talk about that, but haven't provided any opinions regarding the next lynch. I care about what I mentioned because I find it out-of-character.

S~V~S wrote:Now see Zebra, that post seemed like you trying to get me worked up against Wilgy.

I know you mean well, but that's bordering on insulting. Let me make this clear.

As far as I am concerned, my lynch is sealed. Any further discussion offered by me is for the benefit of future days, because I believe today is already doomed.

With that said, I didn't mention nutella or Epi (the first two) because aside from Wilgy himself (and I'm not going to ask him why he wouldn't lynch himself) I agree completely.

S~V~S wrote:We are not talking about who we want to lynch in 3 days, we are talking about today.

Actually, no, we're talking about tomorrow.

linki - That's great to know Wilgy, that's great to know.

linki - I didn't pressure you into anything. You made your decision, Scotty was lynched because of it, and it ended up being the right way to go. Because at the time I believed that the two of you were teammates, your hesitance to take a firm stance in voting for either Wilgy or Scotty seemed to me like you didn't want to be implicated.

Epi trying to suggest that I was trying to pressure him is a laughable accusation. Trying to pressure you to do anything is a pointless exercise, Epi. You know that, I know that, and you know that I know that.

DrWilgy wrote:

S~V~S wrote:We are not talking about who we want to lynch in 3 days, we are talking about today.

I mean... It's better than Zebra locking up... If I'm wrong I want Zebra to contribute as much as possible before the lynch.

I think she was trying to get me to vote for you again, by asking you about your suspish order 3 or 4 people down.

See my point?

Linki, no we are talking about today. Today does not end for another 24 hours. And It is not meant to be insuilting, I think you know that about me; it just seemed like a seriously manipulative question, especially with the way I have been playing this game, flitting back and forth based on peoples reactions to me.

Again, Wilgy's list was nutella, Epi, then you. My top three suspicions are Wilgy himself, followed by nutella and Epi. This being the case, there is nothing I was interested to hear elaboration from except for you being preferable to Bullz.

I find it strange that you're trying to push the idea that anyone except the top of the top lynch candidates should be talked about. Something to hide maybe?

No absolutely not.Like I said, it seemed like an attempt to get me worked up against Wilgy again.

That was a nice try though

I am 100% OK with my vote now after this post.

Also, in the case that you suspected was manipulation on my part, I wasn't reacting to you, I was asking a question about you.

linki - Big surprise there. So now that I've confirmed that the day is doomed (oh wait...I already did) let's talk about what happens when I flip civilian and whose going to be suspected next. I know convincing anyone else that I'm interested in town's win is impossible now, so rather than try to convince anyone I'll simply demonstrate that I am.

We need to talk about everyone. Not just me, and not just the main lynch candidates of yesterday and today. We cannot let anyone get off easily.

Again I will ask S~V~S, why do you claim to be interested in talking about other candidates...

"Awesome, lets talk about that. I had some very clear ideas, and you have seemed to be on a totally different page from everyone from the start, when you look back on it."

...and have proceeded to not only refuse to talk about anyone else, but have further suspected me for focusing on players other than the ones most talked about?

Zebra, SVS hiding something would imply she voted Matt 1st day 1, Scotty 2nd last phase.

Next topic plz.

Then returning to the question, why is she preferable to Bullz in your view?

And please don't tell me it's the voting record again, there's more to reads than voting records. I understand you have to convince yourself you believe otherwise to justify your vote of me, but please just temporarily forget that falsehood for the sake of the question.

DrWilgy wrote:Bullz's voting record is better.

I don't think we are getting anywhere with this... Zebra if either Bullz or SVS is bad, I will bow my head, shake thier hand and say good game to them.

I think we're not getting anywhere with this because you don't want to get anywhere with this.

How about nutella over Epi, then? Is there a marginal difference or a slight one?

Marginal. Based on Epi's behavior and vote pattern, I'm much more confident in Epi being civilian. I don't think Baddie Epi would lead a vote train on Floyd. I think if Epi was bad, Floyd would've been nightkilled instead, and Epi would've just re-voted nutella day 2.

DrWilgy wrote:Marginal. Based on Epi's behavior and vote pattern, I'm much more confident in Epi being civilian. I don't think Baddie Epi would lead a vote train on Floyd. I think if Epi was bad, Floyd would've been nightkilled instead, and Epi would've just re-voted nutella day 2.

I can see this, but it's worth noting that Epi himself has not only acknowledged but even used as a defense that his vote for Floyd was not meant to be a train. He merely suspected him for his own vote and subsequently voted for him having no idea that I would attempt (and succeed) to steer everyone in that direction based on placing my trust in him. Also, do we know that the baddies were aware that Floyd was the checker before the in-thread flip?

a2thezebra wrote:linki - I didn't pressure you into anything. You made your decision, Scotty was lynched because of it, and it ended up being the right way to go. Because at the time I believed that the two of you were teammates, your hesitance to take a firm stance in voting for either Wilgy or Scotty seemed to me like you didn't want to be implicated.

Quite right. You didn't pressure me into anything. You tried to. I commented on your attempt and called it pitiful.

a2thezebra wrote:Epi trying to suggest that I was trying to pressure him is a laughable accusation. Trying to pressure you to do anything is a pointless exercise, Epi. You know that, I know that, and you know that I know that.

Then why did you try?

Thinking on it, it was pretty obvious,
Floyd comes in -> drops a vote on a baddie saying "Dude bros just trust me he's bad" ?

If Matt was on my team that would've stood out like a swollen hamster in a field of lasagna.

Epignosis wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:linki - I didn't pressure you into anything. You made your decision, Scotty was lynched because of it, and it ended up being the right way to go. Because at the time I believed that the two of you were teammates, your hesitance to take a firm stance in voting for either Wilgy or Scotty seemed to me like you didn't want to be implicated.

Quite right. You didn't pressure me into anything. You tried to. I commented on your attempt and called it pitiful.

a2thezebra wrote:Epi trying to suggest that I was trying to pressure him is a laughable accusation. Trying to pressure you to do anything is a pointless exercise, Epi. You know that, I know that, and you know that I know that.

In case that isn't English, my back-and-forth with you wasn't to try to get you to do anything because I know that would be futile. You may recall my comment about your endearing stubbornness at the time if you want evidence of this. What I was hoping to achieve with my back-and-forth with you was simply to express what I felt your motivations were, and to see if anyone else felt the same way.

linki - With most players I would agree, but it's Floyd we're talking about. He's pretty blunt with his opinions in general (which often seem arbitrary) so him asking others to trust him isn't something that I would immediately perceive to be a threat. But I see where you're coming from, and you may be right.

Epignosis wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:Epi trying to suggest that I was trying to pressure him is a laughable accusation. Trying to pressure you to do anything is a pointless exercise, Epi. You know that, I know that, and you know that I know that.

Then why did you try?

I didn't. That idea is your invention as it always has been.

Hmmm... Thinking about it... If I take you out of the equation Zebra, it decreases the margin between Nutella and Epi significantly. Simply because I can't bring myself to believe that all 3 baddies voted for you day 2 instead of Floyd.

Now we're getting somewhere. What is it you find most suspicious about nutella? What is it you find most suspicious about Epi?

Nutella's wishy-washy-ness and Epi killing Floyd.

Hmm... Actually I think my order is Epi > Nutella

I could get behind a Epi lynch

Hbu? What do you think?

Nope, we're lynching me today and that's final.

Another question: why do you believe that Epi was behind Floyd's eventual death? Epi is one of my top suspects but I'm not convinced that he could have predicted that his borderline-throwaway vote would have led to such a sudden and strong Chinese Fire Drill.

Damn... You could at least take alittle bit of the bait.

Linki - Because if it wasn't you it was Epi. The only other votes on Floyd are civs.

Why do you assume that anyone bad led to Floyd's lynch? Could it not have been just a freak occurrence and the real baddies didn't change any of their votes on other candidates out of fear that they would look, well...bad?

Because Matt, Scotty, and Nutella being on the same team voting for you is bonkers.

a2thezebra wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:Epi trying to suggest that I was trying to pressure him is a laughable accusation. Trying to pressure you to do anything is a pointless exercise, Epi. You know that, I know that, and you know that I know that.

Then why did you try?

I didn't. That idea is your invention as it always has been.

Nope, no pressure here.

Is it though? Because it sounds like the kind of thing I would suggest to my teammates as a baddie in the very hopes that it would lead to that classic "they would NEVER do that" reaction, and gain town credibility for one of us in the process. In fact, I have used strategies that at the very least were similar to that.

And regarding the polls thing, I almost never check the polls thread in any mafia game ever. I try to go by what sticks out most to me in memory. Not only that but the two of us clearly have different ideas as to how alignment-indicative voting records can be. I only checked it recently because I just noticed that S~V~S posted in it.

linki - THAT's the best example you can pull up? How in heaven's name am I pressuring you there of all places??? That could be argued as criticism, accusation, reaction-gauging, pretty much anything BUT trying to get you to change your mind. I'm disappointed, son.