The Syndicate

triceratopzeuhl wrote:Do you think anybody has been given info on this vote?

I don't know what this means. Info in what way?

I've been given info: INH was civ.

Is the theme of this game 'have a self-righteous rant at golden?'

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I'm going to be away for most of the night phase attending the next depressing Bengals game.

19-0 at the half. Not too shabby.

I think tensions are a bit high all around, and we all just need to take a step back and take a breather. I know I was feeling a bit miffed on and off since that result because I feel like I've been criticized for trying to play the game to the fullest of my ability as well as seeing a few people hop in here and imply that the INH lynch was baseless / bogus / that they would have opposed it if they were around. Well, I know I'm trying to play this game the best that I can, and I contributed to the INH lynch, and I felt there was something there. I know I was wrong, and I know others were too. It's disheartening all around for many of us, especially in conjunction with such an active thread and an increasingly busy time of year RL for many of us due to the holidays upcoming. Let's just all take a breather and restart from here.

Thanks for responding to my post, Scotty. I apologize if I seemed harsh about it; I just was really confused and wanted to get some clarification. I must admit I'm still lost regarding exactly what you were trying to express, but let's talk more later.

I find it either insanely paranoid of you though, or manipulative, that you think literally every player going after you during Day 1 was being manipulative. I think if you take a step back and try to re-examine the criticisms against you, you should find at least one person coming at you from an inquisitive and genuine angle, because I at least know that's what I was doing.

Let's get some positive vibes going into this thread right now.

I know it's a shitty result. It emotionally drained me to see that as the result, especially after the work I put into the thread. And it certainly doesn't help my motivation to have folks coming in here and being all "I definitely didn't think INH was bad!" when many of us were trying to figure out whom to lynch and you weren't here to say at the time, but I don't want to sit here and get into pointing fingers and making semantic arguments.

Regardless of what you thought of the INH lynch, he's dead now, and at least one other townie is likely to die tonight, so let's get our heads in this game. Still plenty of time to recover from a bad first lynch.

Golden wrote:Is the theme of this game 'have a self-righteous rant at golden?'

Nah man, I'm just responding in kind. Nothing personal here. I'm one of your suspects for one reason or another, and I'm just giving you my opinions.

I still think Scotty's behavior has been scummy, but his responses seem genuine to me. I think it would behoove all of us to try to engage in some re-assessments all around.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Thanks for responding to my post, Scotty. I apologize if I seemed harsh about it; I just was really confused and wanted to get some clarification. I must admit I'm still lost regarding exactly what you were trying to express, but let's talk more later.

I find it either insanely paranoid of you though, or manipulative, that you think literally every player going after you during Day 1 was being manipulative. I think if you take a step back and try to re-examine the criticisms against you, you should find at least one person coming at you from an inquisitive and genuine angle, because I at least know that's what I was doing.

What are you still lost about?

I might be paranoid, yes. But all the voters on the INH wagon were grilling me while I was away and were on my back for one reason or another. Of course I'm gonna be paranoid.

I have taken a step back, and that was before the post I made an hour ago.

I don't think every player was being manipulative. People will see what they want to see. But it would be foolish from my part to lay down and think that they are all good, including you.

That Golden is still hung up on me could be a VERY CIV THING to do. But I'm still torn at this point. I want to give people the benefit of the doubt. I really do.

Scotty wrote:

triceratopzeuhl wrote:Do you think anybody has been given info on this vote?

I don't know what this means. Info in what way?

I've been given info: INH was civ.

It's not unusual for hosts to privately tell certain people "if the vote result is ____ you will get something good." Granted I've mostly played games MP has hosted, it could just be him that likes to do that

my question was directed at everybody, not just scotty BTW

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

Vompatti wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

Vompatti wrote:Would you believe me if I told you all the INH voters are bad?

I would not k.

What makes you think that?

Why else would they have voted for a civilian?

In hindsight, I still think he was the best choice for a Day 1 vote. Nobody else convinced me otherwise, but Scotty came close for me.

I think I would have liked to leave my vote on bwt.

Let it also be known that I would never personally attack anyone on this site. It's all a game, and I've just been frustrated feeling like a baby in a dishwasher.

I'm squeaky clean tho

Scotty wrote:

Golden wrote:Is the theme of this game 'have a self-righteous rant at golden?'

Nah man, I'm just responding in kind. Nothing personal here. I'm one of your suspects for one reason or another, and I'm just giving you my opinions.

I don't think it's personal. I do think it's an overreaction. Kind of townie, though.

I'm, like, eight pages behind. I do think you said something like 'told you so' but my bad if I'm wrong. In any event, the important point I was making is that (no matter who says it) that kind of statement is meaningless and an easy play to try to wrest control of discussion.

Inh voters deserve scrutiny, but not exclusively... I've played games where the baddie team avoided the main wagons all game relying on that kind of thinking.

Scotty, this is what my post referred to.

10 minutes before the lynch:

Scotty wrote:I don't trust several people on this lynch and I don't think Inh will flip bad.

10 minutes after the lynch:

Scotty wrote:And there ya go.

It's 'calling your shot' on a civilian lynch and then reminding people you called your shot after the lynch. I find this an inherently suspicious thing to do. There is no virtue in calling your shot that someone is a civilian - it's too easy for baddies to do.

You might not be the only one, but I only read the posts just around the lynch, so you are what stood out to me.

I will go back and read before the lynch and since the lynch when I get a moment.

Scotty wrote:That Golden is still hung up on me could be a VERY CIV THING to do. But I'm still torn at this point. I want to give people the benefit of the doubt. I really do.

I'm not 'still hung up on you'. It's night 1. It's not like I've been hounding you for phases and phases. What I'm seeing from you this morning is literally the first time I've seen even a hint of any version of scotty I've ever played with.

By the way, if I was so hung up on you, I would have voted for you. If you look at my big post explaining my thoughts on both you and inh, part of the reason I didn't vote for you is that I feel you are someone I can get a proper read on with more time. I'm not closed minded on this, I'm just trying to solve the game.

I get what it's like feeling like your lynch is kind of inevitable and you are on the defence the whole time, so I don't blame you for being frustrated. But what I really want to see is your scotty solvy thoughts.

triceratopzeuhl wrote:

Scotty wrote:

triceratopzeuhl wrote:Do you think anybody has been given info on this vote?

I don't know what this means. Info in what way?

I've been given info: INH was civ.

It's not unusual for hosts to privately tell certain people "if the vote result is ____ you will get something good." Granted I've mostly played games MP has hosted, it could just be him that likes to do that

It was a staple at RM. Night polls often had factional benefits that someone was aware of. I don't know if Rico has seen that in action, though. Much more common recently is night polls that effect the game in some broader way, or give you something based on your vote no matter what it is, but without info (Epi is good at those).

I voted Thalia hall because I like the name Thalia.

I Gave the Art Mover a Sound Reason to Vote Differently, and He Waved Off My Perceptive Point With a Meaningless Caveat

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:...I'm still not getting it. INH doesn't have to be a mafia read. My mind is open. But he hasn't said anything since I made my beefs clear.

He Has No Reason to Fuck Up You Thinking He's Good by Becoming Argumentative, Ya Dingus

Well, that's why I expressed my anxiety given there's no reasonable mafia-aligned strategy for INH to react like that. Doesn't mean he's town, but it's the main thing making me nervous at the moment.

Whom do you suspect?

Epignosis wrote:

Sloonei wrote:I don't think it is unreasonable for BWT to ask Epi that question.

It Was a Dumb Question.

How was it a dumb question? I'm curious.

Also I'm going to Arco AM/PM Mini Market. I promise I am not here to pump gas, wash windows, or solicit products not from the facility though.

Scotty wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Thanks for responding to my post, Scotty. I apologize if I seemed harsh about it; I just was really confused and wanted to get some clarification. I must admit I'm still lost regarding exactly what you were trying to express, but let's talk more later.

I find it either insanely paranoid of you though, or manipulative, that you think literally every player going after you during Day 1 was being manipulative. I think if you take a step back and try to re-examine the criticisms against you, you should find at least one person coming at you from an inquisitive and genuine angle, because I at least know that's what I was doing.

What are you still lost about?

I might be paranoid, yes. But all the voters on the INH wagon were grilling me while I was away and were on my back for one reason or another. Of course I'm gonna be paranoid.

I have taken a step back, and that was before the post I made an hour ago.

I don't think every player was being manipulative. People will see what they want to see. But it would be foolish from my part to lay down and think that they are all good, including you.

That Golden is still hung up on me could be a VERY CIV THING to do. But I'm still torn at this point. I want to give people the benefit of the doubt. I really do.

You said you meant that it wasn't a good example of being civ, but I'm finding that difficult to reconcile with the four items I highlighted as well... I guess what I'm mainly wondering is: Did you feel any of it was alignment-indicative for me or not?

Well yeah, I would say that thinking all of the INH voters are good, while it is possible, is probably just as myopic as thinking all of them are bad. When you get a chance, I'd be curious which ones you think seem most manipulative and why.

triceratopzeuhl wrote:

Scotty wrote:

triceratopzeuhl wrote:Do you think anybody has been given info on this vote?

I don't know what this means. Info in what way?

I've been given info: INH was civ.

It's not unusual for hosts to privately tell certain people "if the vote result is ____ you will get something good." Granted I've mostly played games MP has hosted, it could just be him that likes to do that

I personally haven't played a game here in which a host has taken that approach in a while. Probably at least a year, maybe two. I historically have liked to dabble in that as a host, and I know others have as well, but it seems to have dropped out of style these days. It's possible though, I suppose.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Sloonei wrote:I don't think it is unreasonable for BWT to ask Epi that question.

It Was a Dumb Question.

How was it a dumb question? I'm curious.

The Reasons People Use to Justify Killing You on the First Day are Frequent and Almost Always Terrible, and This Was No Exception

Golden wrote:

Scotty wrote:

Golden wrote:Is the theme of this game 'have a self-righteous rant at golden?'

Nah man, I'm just responding in kind. Nothing personal here. I'm one of your suspects for one reason or another, and I'm just giving you my opinions.

I don't think it's personal. I do think it's an overreaction. Kind of townie, though.

I'm, like, eight pages behind. I do think you said something like 'told you so' but my bad if I'm wrong. In any event, the important point I was making is that (no matter who says it) that kind of statement is meaningless and an easy play to try to wrest control of discussion.

Inh voters deserve scrutiny, but not exclusively... I've played games where the baddie team avoided the main wagons all game relying on that kind of thinking.

Highlighted for truth.

Epignosis wrote:I Gave the Art Mover a Sound Reason to Vote Differently, and He Waved Off My Perceptive Point With a Meaningless Caveat

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:...I'm still not getting it. INH doesn't have to be a mafia read. My mind is open. But he hasn't said anything since I made my beefs clear.

He Has No Reason to Fuck Up You Thinking He's Good by Becoming Argumentative, Ya Dingus

Well, that's why I expressed my anxiety given there's no reasonable mafia-aligned strategy for INH to react like that. Doesn't mean he's town, but it's the main thing making me nervous at the moment.

Whom do you suspect?

I don't think this presents the whole picture, but yeah, OK. I believed INH was bad and with relative conviction. I thought your observation was a worthwhile one, and it's similar to anxiety I expressed myself, but it didn't negate all of the thinking behind why I voted INH. I think I made that clear.

Tinfoil reads: BWT, JJJ, Epi, and timmer.

I've had reason to town read them all so far, but I have to admit, I feel like at least one of them is hoodwinking me right now.

Pretty sure Golden and Sloonei are town at the moment. I don't feel any tinfoil there.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Looks like I missed a lot.

Hopefully you guys are right! I have no idea why inh is being lynched tbh.

You can't give us any more than this? Because you've certainly been really substantive so far.

Are you trying to provoke me? I don't feel I deserve this attitude.

I'm trying to keep up here. Instead of just remaining silent, I opted to post my thoughts and status. You got a problem with that?

You changed your vote multiple times yesterday for seemingly arbitrary reasons or reasons that don't seem logical to me. I understand you're having a hard time keeping up, but I don't feel like the posts I've seen from you have much in terms of actual quality.

So in terms of what I've seen so far, yes, I do have a problem with it. Because you don't have a lot of substance. And the bit I've seen doesn't make me feel good about you.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Tinfoil reads: BWT, JJJ, Epi, and timmer.

I've had reason to town read them all so far, but I have to admit, I feel like at least one of them is hoodwinking me right now.

I don't think it's timmer. I'm not tinfoil reading him at all.

I get the feeling like timmer is overjoyed at having a bit of time to play a real town game, and so he is going for it.

MP's End of Night 1 Rainbow - GY!BE Rainbow #7

Strong Town:
Golden
Sloonei

Moderate Town:
timmer
JaggedJimmyJay

Weak Town:
Epignosis
birdwithteeth11
Boomslang

Very Weak Town:
triceratopzeuhl
Metalmarsh89

Very Weak Mafia:
Dom
LoRab
nijuukyugou
Vompatti
sig
A Person

Weak Mafia:
Scotty
DrWilgy

Moderate Mafia:
N/A

Strong Mafia:
N/A

Here's an updated legacy rainbow in case I die tonight, which I feel is somewhat likely given my activity level but perhaps not super likely given that shitty mislynch result. Wanted to throw it out anyway.

Caveat: I haven't done any digging into ISOs, voting record, or thorough evaluation, so any shifts from my EoD d1 (#6 rainbow) from this are largely based on my gut-driven relatively uninformed reflections over the last 24 hours. As a result, and partially due to Scotty's recent content which has struck me as more genuine than not, I don't feel I have any solid leads at the moment.

If I survive the night, I'll be making re-assessment of literally every player on this lost my top priority.

Golden wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Tinfoil reads: BWT, JJJ, Epi, and timmer.

I've had reason to town read them all so far, but I have to admit, I feel like at least one of them is hoodwinking me right now.

I don't think it's timmer. I'm not tinfoil reading him at all.

I get the feeling like timmer is overjoyed at having a bit of time to play a real town game, and so he is going for it.

That's good to know, thanks. I've had to fight some real feelings of paranoia this Night phase while I've been away from this thread but nonetheless letting everything percolate in my brain.

One thing that struck me is the amount of mindmelding that was occurring last day phase, especially near the end of the day, and not just regarding INH. I think there's at least one mafia member blending in that group, maybe two but that seems risky, and I'd bet on the rest of them steering clear of INH.

Right now I'm most nervous about BWT and JJJ. Epi and timmer less so. I feel like if there is anyone who tried to mislead me and the thread into that mislynch, right now I'd say GTH that it was JJJ.

But this is all gut-based and speculative; I would need to dig back into everything and see whether I thought JJJ really gave INH a chance and was trying to convince me because he genuinely believed in the INH case as town or whether he was trying to steer me to assist him in a mislynch.

Now, all of that said, I'm still townreading those folks for solid reasons, hence why they're tinfoil reads. But I think we all need to be as open-minded as possible right now, and I know that I'm going to try to re-assess as much as I can whenever I can.

Boomslang wrote:RIP, INH. Honestly, I hadn't spent much time looking at you or your case. I apologize for not further substantiating my thoughts on MM, but JJJ's explanation is pretty much my train of thought. Using a weak, time-based rationale that would've made the most sense for a timmer vote to vote me. I'll have to look at MM more closely in the next day phase.

Sloonei wrote:

Boomslang wrote:Been out all Saturday. Alas. But the thing that pinged me most all day was MM jumping down my/timmer's throat for a timing thing that would've been way too clumsy for baddie move. Voting there.

What are you thoughts on Epi, Scotty, and INH?

As I've said before, Epi's gimmick renders him pretty much impossible to read at this point. I lean town for the sheer reason that he's not actively attempting to mislead the town's efforts in thread. Scotty seems authentically annoyed, and I like him avoiding the INH vote. I also like his challenges to BWT. Stronger town read than on Epi. And INH is, unfortunately, irrelevant at this point.

I don't agree with this assertion. While most of his content so far has been fluffy, he did throw out some solid reads and even had a brief conversation with me about INH in real time during EoD yesterday.

Also, I find your two statements contradictory. How can he be pretty much impossible to read and yet you lean town on him?

And that's it from me, I'm heading out now. See you folks later... hopefully.

Boomslang wrote:RIP, INH. Honestly, I hadn't spent much time looking at you or your case. I apologize for not further substantiating my thoughts on MM, but JJJ's explanation is pretty much my train of thought. Using a weak, time-based rationale that would've made the most sense for a timmer vote to vote me. I'll have to look at MM more closely in the next day phase.

Sloonei wrote:

Boomslang wrote:Been out all Saturday. Alas. But the thing that pinged me most all day was MM jumping down my/timmer's throat for a timing thing that would've been way too clumsy for baddie move. Voting there.

What are you thoughts on Epi, Scotty, and INH?

As I've said before, Epi's gimmick renders him pretty much impossible to read at this point. I lean town for the sheer reason that he's not actively attempting to mislead the town's efforts in thread. Scotty seems authentically annoyed, and I like him avoiding the INH vote. I also like his challenges to BWT. Stronger town read than on Epi. And INH is, unfortunately, irrelevant at this point.

Why do you like Scotty avoiding the INH vote?

Scotty wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

Vompatti wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

Vompatti wrote:Would you believe me if I told you all the INH voters are bad?

I would not k.

What makes you think that?

Why else would they have voted for a civilian?

In hindsight, I still think he was the best choice for a Day 1 vote. Nobody else convinced me otherwise, but Scotty came close for me.

I think I would have liked to leave my vote on bwt.

How come? I was just admitting that hindsight was 20/20, and that I felt INH, at the time, was the best Day 1 vote option.

You still seem awfully defensive, but given how wrong I was about the INH lynch, I am willing to re-assess my options for Day 2. So I could be wrong about you.

Epignosis wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Sloonei wrote:I don't think it is unreasonable for BWT to ask Epi that question.

It Was a Dumb Question.

How was it a dumb question? I'm curious.

The Reasons People Use to Justify Killing You on the First Day are Frequent and Almost Always Terrible, and This Was No Exception

Oh okay. Well, it's what I had to go with at the time for Day 1. If I had felt that strongly about it, I would have voted for you.

But I didn't. I do feel you are starting to contribute more so it's making me feel better about you.

As to answer trice's question, not sure if Rico has ever seen the mechanic of night poll info being given to certain players. But I didn't get anything, so I can't say for sure if it's in play or not.

@Host: Did anyone receive info on the night poll?

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Boomslang wrote:RIP, INH. Honestly, I hadn't spent much time looking at you or your case. I apologize for not further substantiating my thoughts on MM, but JJJ's explanation is pretty much my train of thought. Using a weak, time-based rationale that would've made the most sense for a timmer vote to vote me. I'll have to look at MM more closely in the next day phase.

Sloonei wrote:

Boomslang wrote:Been out all Saturday. Alas. But the thing that pinged me most all day was MM jumping down my/timmer's throat for a timing thing that would've been way too clumsy for baddie move. Voting there.

What are you thoughts on Epi, Scotty, and INH?

As I've said before, Epi's gimmick renders him pretty much impossible to read at this point. I lean town for the sheer reason that he's not actively attempting to mislead the town's efforts in thread. Scotty seems authentically annoyed, and I like him avoiding the INH vote. I also like his challenges to BWT. Stronger town read than on Epi. And INH is, unfortunately, irrelevant at this point.

I don't agree with this assertion. While most of his content so far has been fluffy, he did throw out some solid reads and even had a brief conversation with me about INH in real time during EoD yesterday.

Also, I find your two statements contradictory. How can he be pretty much impossible to read and yet you lean town on him?

I wanted to make this exact post but figured I'd wait to see if anyone else had already made it. Thank you.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:As to answer trice's question, not sure if Rico has ever seen the mechanic of night poll info being given to certain players. But I didn't get anything, so I can't say for sure if it's in play or not.

@Host: Did anyone receive info on the night poll?

Scotty is reminding me of Rocky & Bullwinkle Scotty. He was bad then.

so who are the good guys and who are the bad guys

I didn't expect him to answer that lol

MP you call all your "tinfoil suspicions" town anyway, can you at least touch on your mafia suspicion reasonings? You've talked about scotty (who IMO seems genuine, but I don't think I've ever played with him & I can see your points to some degree) but I don't think you've talked much at all about the others you list as very/weak mafia

Mmmmmm, malt.

A Person wrote:so who are the good guys and who are the bad guys

Do you have any thoughts on the game so far?

A Person wrote:so who are the good guys and who are the bad guys

MetalMarsh is a bad guy, Epignosis is a good guy.

Sloonei wrote:

A Person wrote:so who are the good guys and who are the bad guys

MetalMarsh is a bad guy, Epignosis is a good guy.

Agree with the first. Starting to get closer to agreeing with the second.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

A Person wrote:so who are the good guys and who are the bad guys

MetalMarsh is a bad guy, Epignosis is a good guy.

Agree with the first. Starting to get closer to agreeing with the second.

I want to know whether or not A Person agrees with those statements. Let's keep saying A Person's name until A Person responds.

MovingPictures07 wrote: Also, I find your two statements contradictory. How can he be pretty much impossible to read and yet you lean town on him?

Did you read my post? I said I leaned town on Epi because I didn't think his gimmick was doing any damage to the town effort. Beyond obfuscating his own alignment, of course.

Sloonei wrote:Why do you like Scotty avoiding the INH vote?

He had a correct read on INH and promoted that read in the thread. Had we followed that advice, it would've been profitable to the town effort. That's more town evidence than we have for most people at this point.

Also, voted the mini-market because food.