The Syndicate

I know you're one to look at things from both sides ("would a baddie do/say this" / "would a civvie do/say this") and it seems like you're not doing that this game.

Sorsha wrote:I know you're one to look at things from both sides ("would a baddie do/say this" / "would a civvie do/say this") and it seems like you're not doing that this game.

When it comes to Long Con, you're probably not far off the mark. When I look at his posts that's what I see: an avalanche of bad. That's why it's so important to me that I get some impartial feedback on my case, because the only people who are going to be able to do that are neither Long Con nor I -- and 95% of the discussion about him has been between the two of us.

I have suspected other players in this game and then changed my mind, including you Sorsha, because the evidence and circumstances changed. I am trying my damndest to either get people to see what I am seeing or otherwise see what they are seeing.

But that's the problem. I have no idea why people view LC as a civilian and I need to know that. Maybe someone out there will make a point I haven't considered that will influence my read. Maybe someone out there will see a point I made that they haven't considered that will influence their read.

So far it's been nothing. Instead I have received a pile of votes, been told I am trying to control the thread, and left in a state of total confusion. I am literally begging everyone else to share their perspective on the matter.

Elohcin wrote:

Long Con wrote:Hi Eloh!

What do you think of JJJ's case on me?

Since you were gung-ho on lynching Quin... I think it makes him more likely to be Civ, that you were allowed back. I feel like, if Quin were bad, and the baddies killed you to ease tyhe pressure on him, it would be in poor taste to bring you back immediately. A Person certainly wasn't after Quin.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. It was the host that decided to bring me back, not the baddies. And l still think quin has a good chance of being bad based on the same things I said before. I considered your three options as elo 1.0 and feel the exact same as elo 2.0. why does me coming back make him look more civ... Please explain better.

And jjjs case on to? Honey, I always think you seem bad so I just put it out of my mind and try to ignore you until I am further into the game, just being totally honest.

Linking...I understand epi, but I don't think it affects the game at all that I am back in this time.

I'm a bit underwhelmed that Elohcin 2.0 replaced back into the game, immediately found herself beset by accusations she can't defend against (related to a host decision), and left us with only this post in response. Typically when a civilian deals with that kind of thing it incites some kind of emotion, frustration, sarcasm, or something.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Hey, sorry I've been gone. Getting ready for the new semester (along with Wilgette's parents visiting) has made me busier than expected.

I'm going to skim rq and post thoughts.

Are they as adorable as she is?

Yes, but only half as tasty.

So I'm caught up and I see that several of you would like to cook me. Makes sense as all I've provided the last 2 days are excuses.

@Marmot my top 3 suspects are Llama, JJJ and idk.

I would've probably voted for JJJ yesterday had I been around, while mostly tonal, his stance on his suspects has been too rigid for what I expect of JJJ. I think a good comparison is his performance in Mad Max (civilian) where during my lynch he was jumping in and out of suspicion on multiple people. I'm not seeing anything comparable to Mad Max JJJ.

Nothing has improved my read on Llama, but his discussion with Quin yesterday has actually reinforced the negative tones I felt before. I suppose something that does make me doubt my original read on Llama slightly is the lack of INH. I don't know where his suspicion of Llama went even though it was similar to mine.

The part that throws me for a loop is that I feel no reason to remove the possibility that JJJ and Llama are teammates. A pattern of 2 high posters would normally cause me to assume that only 1 of them could be bad, but I do not feel that this time.

I'm finding it difficult to actually say that I have a 3rd suspect, but that could also be due to how pivotal this game has been. If I couldn't place a vote on Llama or JJJ, I may vote for INH or Epi.

INH, LC and Quin can I have you 3 let me know full reads on the other 2 in this group?

Niju, Marmot, and Epi can I have you 3 let me know full reads on the other 2 in this group?

DrWilgy wrote:I would've probably voted for JJJ yesterday had I been around, while mostly tonal, his stance on his suspects has been too rigid for what I expect of JJJ. I think a good comparison is his performance in Mad Max (civilian) where during my lynch he was jumping in and out of suspicion on multiple people. I'm not seeing anything comparable to Mad Max JJJ.

Name a suspect I have rigidly suspected other than Long Con. Then tell me what you think of Long Con.

I think what's happening to me in this game is something that more often happens to Golden -- a strong read of mine is interpreted to be some kind of show instead of an indicator that I really really really want to lynch somebody. Sometimes I am a hurricane of self-assurance too.

I hope these vague meta perceptions of what a civilian JJJ is are dead next game.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:I would've probably voted for JJJ yesterday had I been around, while mostly tonal, his stance on his suspects has been too rigid for what I expect of JJJ. I think a good comparison is his performance in Mad Max (civilian) where during my lynch he was jumping in and out of suspicion on multiple people. I'm not seeing anything comparable to Mad Max JJJ.

Name a suspect I have rigidly suspected other than Long Con. Then tell me what you think of Long Con.

Marmot.

In regards to LC, I reviewed his ISO upon you asking me this and realized that I think he's civ not based upon what he's said, but what you've stated (this is also on the premise that you are bad). In the scenario where you aren't bad, I have a solid null on him. I am in agreement with his views regarding your interactions with Marmot however.

I have been calling Marmot a civilian for the last four phases. Where do you get that idea?

Gimme a GTH read on Long Con in a world where I am a civilian.

Long Con's putting himself right out there by calling out 3J as a liar for suggesting he has lynch immunity today. I'd give that a thumbs up for attitude, although I'm not on board with the idea.

DrWilgy wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Hey, sorry I've been gone. Getting ready for the new semester (along with Wilgette's parents visiting) has made me busier than expected.

I'm going to skim rq and post thoughts.

Are they as adorable as she is?

Yes, but only half as tasty.

So I'm caught up and I see that several of you would like to cook me. Makes sense as all I've provided the last 2 days are excuses.

@Marmot my top 3 suspects are Llama, JJJ and idk.

I would've probably voted for JJJ yesterday had I been around, while mostly tonal, his stance on his suspects has been too rigid for what I expect of JJJ. I think a good comparison is his performance in Mad Max (civilian) where during my lynch he was jumping in and out of suspicion on multiple people. I'm not seeing anything comparable to Mad Max JJJ.

Nothing has improved my read on Llama, but his discussion with Quin yesterday has actually reinforced the negative tones I felt before. I suppose something that does make me doubt my original read on Llama slightly is the lack of INH. I don't know where his suspicion of Llama went even though it was similar to mine.

The part that throws me for a loop is that I feel no reason to remove the possibility that JJJ and Llama are teammates. A pattern of 2 high posters would normally cause me to assume that only 1 of them could be bad, but I do not feel that this time.

I'm finding it difficult to actually say that I have a 3rd suspect, but that could also be due to how pivotal this game has been. If I couldn't place a vote on Llama or JJJ, I may vote for INH or Epi.

INH, LC and Quin can I have you 3 let me know full reads on the other 2 in this group?

Niju, Marmot, and Epi can I have you 3 let me know full reads on the other 2 in this group?

I'm feeling okay about INH right now. I The only thing that's holding me back is his sudden change of opinion on llama after DDL's flip. That still remains unexplained. I would like it not to be.

I'm comfortable with LC. I think his heart is in the right place in this game, and other than our initial spat early on, I'm feeling some degree of sync between us in this game, which is nice.

Wilgy, what's your GTH read on Boomslang?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

Long Con wrote:Hi Eloh!

What do you think of JJJ's case on me?

Since you were gung-ho on lynching Quin... I think it makes him more likely to be Civ, that you were allowed back. I feel like, if Quin were bad, and the baddies killed you to ease tyhe pressure on him, it would be in poor taste to bring you back immediately. A Person certainly wasn't after Quin.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. It was the host that decided to bring me back, not the baddies. And l still think quin has a good chance of being bad based on the same things I said before. I considered your three options as elo 1.0 and feel the exact same as elo 2.0. why does me coming back make him look more civ... Please explain better.

And jjjs case on to? Honey, I always think you seem bad so I just put it out of my mind and try to ignore you until I am further into the game, just being totally honest.

Linking...I understand epi, but I don't think it affects the game at all that I am back in this time.

I'm a bit underwhelmed that Elohcin 2.0 replaced back into the game, immediately found herself beset by accusations she can't defend against (related to a host decision), and left us with only this post in response. Typically when a civilian deals with that kind of thing it incites some kind of emotion, frustration, sarcasm, or something.

I'm not sure exactly how you want me to act. I'm just stating the facts that coming back in changes nothing for me. I cannot un-know my last role. But, it's not my role anymore so I won't learn anything more from it. I will keep my thoughts from Elo 1.0, watch Quin, and decide if I think he is really bad or if something else happened. His reactions still make me think he is bad, but as I said before, with no one else on board, I cannot lynch the guy by myself.

Replacing into the game, I was being accused of being bad even before I knew I could post. What does one say to that? I obviously have to be careful with my words b/c I am someone who people usually fined suspicious very easily. And to be honest, I don't want people to find me suspicious...obviously. So...I don't know how to ward off suspicion from my replacement other than to tell you all that my new role doesn't really change anything. I'm still alone, no btsc. I'm still not bad. I think that y'all need to give me at least day to prove myself, I would hope.

Sorsha wrote:

Long Con wrote:I voted JJJ... this funky daytime rumble deserves a shakeup. If you agree that he's bad and lying about unlynchability, join me!

Or, vote Wilgy. That's cool too in my books.

You didn't answer me earlier as to why you'd think he's lying... maybe if you were clearer about why you think that.

Because I think he's smart. That's what a smart person would do. It gives him the greatest advantage and protection to make us believe he is unlynchable when he's not protected, and that he is lynchable, when he is protected.

I am not going to be voting for Jimmy today. If he is telling the truth, we will have learned nothing from his lynch and wasted another opportunity to lynch a baddie, and I'm not willing to gamble that he isn't telling the truth.

I am not going to be voting Long Con today. I find the case against him unpersuasive.

I am not going to be voting Boomslang today. I do not believe the mafia would try to kill one of their own.

I am not going to be voting Marmot today. I think his voting record looks good.

I am not going to be voting Epignosis today. His looks even better.

I am not going to be voting Blooper today. I like her voting record as well.

I am not going to be voting Daisy today. I believe that a Mafia MP would have tried harder.

I am not going to be voting Sorsha today. She also has a good voting record.

I am therefore open to voting AP/Eloh, Wilgy, INH, Made, and Scotty, but would most like to lynch Wilgy or Eloh.

DrWilgy wrote:INH, LC and Quin can I have you 3 let me know full reads on the other 2 in this group?

Why?

Niju, Marmot, and Epi can I have you 3 let me know full reads on the other 2 in this group?

Why?

This type of seemingly arbitrary grouping and cross-read requests is suspicious to me. Feels like you're caught in a baddie mode and are using thread techniques to stir up more interactions with players so that you can craft your own presence into something more Civ-seeming than it has been.

Two sentences, and you've planted the seeds for six different players to engage with you about players who are not you. I believe it's artificial.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Long Con, in however many words you like:

Why am I bad?

Well, Boomslang put it really well in this post:

Boomslang wrote:On the other major disagreement in the thread today (JJJ vs. LC), I think LC comes out looking good. JJJ doesn't see (or, because it's JJJ, more likely doesn't want to recognize) the subtleties between LC's agreement with Epi on DDL and his disagreement with hypocrisy as a general tell. LC also is absolutely right about JJJ's defensive sensitivity against analysis that's not unambiguous baddie accusation. I also think JJJ is being very controlling of the thread narrative, as indicated by his aversion to LC's quote rephrasing.

Basically, I'm leaning bad on JJJ after that. I think he's attempting to drive the entire thread and is aggressively shooting down threats to his dominance/contributions that differ from his narrative.

And the fact that you're still after me, when you really should have realized by now that I'm Civ. My conclusion is that you do not wish to realize it, because you are a baddie who has become too invested in what he thought would be an easy mark, and you're too stubborn or scared to make a turnaround on this one. Maybe you are afraid you'll look even worse, and ensure your lynch. I don't know, I'm really surprised you drove us to this point. I used to think you were a Civ, and you have changed my mind. That was the wrong move.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I think what's happening to me in this game is something that more often happens to Golden -- a strong read of mine is interpreted to be some kind of show instead of an indicator that I really really really want to lynch somebody. Sometimes I am a hurricane of self-assurance too.

I hope these vague meta perceptions of what a civilian JJJ is are dead next game.

To be fair, I wanted to vote for you before your read/case of Long Con developed.

You voted for me on Day 1 for doing what I usually do, and even said "he's lynchable under his own power". I interpreted that as "this guy is very lynchable, and I can't be blamed for voting that way".

There's more to it than that sure, but that's the one post I don't like from you on that day.

Long Con wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:INH, LC and Quin can I have you 3 let me know full reads on the other 2 in this group?

Why?

Niju, Marmot, and Epi can I have you 3 let me know full reads on the other 2 in this group?

Why?

This type of seemingly arbitrary grouping and cross-read requests is suspicious to me. Feels like you're caught in a baddie mode and are using thread techniques to stir up more interactions with players so that you can craft your own presence into something more Civ-seeming than it has been.

Two sentences, and you've planted the seeds for six different players to engage with you about players who are not you. I believe it's artificial.

These 2 groups voted together 2 days in a row. I'd like to know more about them.

Quin wrote:Wilgy, what's your GTH read on Boomslang?

Bad, but I know that's tinfoil. All rational thinking in the world opposes this thought.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I have been calling Marmot a civilian for the last four phases. Where do you get that idea?

Gimme a GTH read on Long Con in a world where I am a civilian.

If you are civilian, then I'd gth him bad. I don't think that you two are on the same team.

Sorry if, I missed/confused your thoughts, I'll go through your ISO now. You have made me doubtful.

Here's something that has me doubting that Eloh is bad, "would Mongoose give the information that is in Elohs head (from her last role) to an entire team?"

Long Con wrote:when you really should have realized by now that I'm Civ.

What are the civilian indicators in your posts that I am missing? What about your play should allow me to realize that you're not bad?

This is not meant to be a combative question. I am all ears. I actually feel the same way about myself. I expected some people to know my role by now.

Does anyone else think Wilgy's sudden spurt of activity reads a bit like "Dude, you're going to get lynched. Go defend yourself!" prodding from a BTSC team?

thellama73 wrote:Does anyone else think Wilgy's sudden spurt of activity reads a bit like "Dude, you're going to get lynched. Go defend yourself!" prodding from a BTSC team?

What I like least is the tinfoil on Boomslang -- it almost seems trendy at this point.

Wilgy, what leads you there? Hell, anyone who suspects Boomslang should answer that. Is it just that he was a failed night kill target, or are his posts suspicious?

Long Con wrote:Catan is cool. I don't trade away wheat though.

Boomslang, JJJ, INH. I chose INH because you took Wilgy. He's my wild card addition.

And Eloh, I believe that the #3 option is equally likely whether or not a baddie is lynched on Day 1. If they're crazy enough to pull the stunt, they're crazy enough to do it either way. And I mean crazy in a good way, because I think it's an awesome trick, and it's my top choice for an explanation.

Long Con: this post came after Boomslang posted the suspicion of me that you've recently cited to support your own suspicion of me.

So why are we mafia teammates?

DrWilgy wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I have been calling Marmot a civilian for the last four phases. Where do you get that idea?

Gimme a GTH read on Long Con in a world where I am a civilian.

If you are civilian, then I'd gth him bad. I don't think that you two are on the same team.

Sorry if, I missed/confused your thoughts, I'll go through your ISO now. You have made me doubtful.

Any chance you could develop a read on me that isn't predicated on my alignment?

You defended me on Day 1 when I was taking heat (for not particular reason), but now that I'm a general consensus "Don't lynch" you've developed a dichotomy between myself and Jay.

EBWOP: predicated on Jay's alignment, not mine.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Long Con wrote:Catan is cool. I don't trade away wheat though.

Boomslang, JJJ, INH. I chose INH because you took Wilgy. He's my wild card addition.

And Eloh, I believe that the #3 option is equally likely whether or not a baddie is lynched on Day 1. If they're crazy enough to pull the stunt, they're crazy enough to do it either way. And I mean crazy in a good way, because I think it's an awesome trick, and it's my top choice for an explanation.

Long Con: this post came after Boomslang posted the suspicion of me that you've recently cited to support your own suspicion of me.

So why are we mafia teammates?

Enh, I don't have that answer, nothing about my suspicion of either of you has to do with connections to the other. It kind of depends on whether or not Quin is bad. If Quin is bad, then (the theoretical) Eloh 1.0 was right and she roleblocked the killer who was definitely trying to kill Boomslang.

If Quin is good, then the chances that the baddies just self-blocked in order to cause a wild goose chase are way higher. Any baddie team worth its salt would target one of their own to compliment this gambit - Boomslang.

Since I think Quin is good, I think Boomslang is bad. Part of me thinks Boomslang is good - for instance, the post against you. Very complicated, lots of strands floating around in ol' Duder's head. Note that I haven't pursued Boomslang's lynch, and that list was just a three-pick for the endgame competition with Scotty.

I'm going to cut some of that cooling pizza and eat it, and when I get back I'll answer more of your questions as best I can.

Never mind Wilgy, I misread your post. I thought you GTH me as bad, but you said Long Con.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I have been calling Marmot a civilian for the last four phases. Where do you get that idea?

Gimme a GTH read on Long Con in a world where I am a civilian.

If you are civilian, then I'd gth him bad. I don't think that you two are on the same team.

Sorry if, I missed/confused your thoughts, I'll go through your ISO now. You have made me doubtful.

Any chance you could develop a read on me that isn't predicated on my alignment?

You defended me on Day 1 when I was taking heat (for not particular reason), but now that I'm a general consensus "Don't lynch" you've developed a dichotomy between myself and Jay.

I think he intended for the dichotomy to be between me and Jay.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Never mind Wilgy, I misread your post. I thought you GTH me as bad, but you said Long Con.

No linki! But yeah.

There is a huge problem with the whole "the mafia team blocked their own kill."

Did the mafia team know that the name of a protected person would show up in the host post? I sure didn't. If they didn't, then why would they even think to try something like that? The host post could have just as easily said, "No one has been killed."

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Long Con wrote:when you really should have realized by now that I'm Civ.

What are the civilian indicators in your posts that I am missing? What about your play should allow me to realize that you're not bad?

This is not meant to be a combative question. I am all ears. I actually feel the same way about myself. I expected some people to know my role by now.

You want me to tell you? That's no fun.

Epignosis wrote:There is a huge problem with the whole "the mafia team blocked their own kill."

Did the mafia team know that the name of a protected person would show up in the host post? I sure didn't. If they didn't, then why would they even think to try something like that? The host post could have just as easily said, "No one has been killed."

Well, if you can think of that now, then why couldn't they think of that before enacting the plan?

Long Con wrote:

Epignosis wrote:There is a huge problem with the whole "the mafia team blocked their own kill."

Did the mafia team know that the name of a protected person would show up in the host post? I sure didn't. If they didn't, then why would they even think to try something like that? The host post could have just as easily said, "No one has been killed."

Well, if you can think of that now, then why couldn't they think of that before enacting the plan?

So they think of it and then what? Take a chance?

Ask the Host. I would expect a straight answer if I said "Look, we're thinking about pulling a really cool trick and we're concerned that it will be stupid. How does a night post look when someone survives a nightkill - does their name show up?"

I would be a bit put out at any Host that would not answer that question, as it comes from a cool place where cool players are trying a cool trick in their game. What Host wouldn't encourage that?

Long Con wrote:You want me to tell you? That's no fun.

Yes. I have been seeking feedback for my case because I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that you're bad. Instead I am more suspicious of you than I have been of anyone without direct, conclusive evidence than I have been of anyone in my last ten-plus civilian games.

I can still be wrong. But clearly I'm not seeing the civilian in you, and if you think I should be then that's something we should talk about. I do not fear WIFOM and will listen.

Long Con wrote:

Epignosis wrote:There is a huge problem with the whole "the mafia team blocked their own kill."

Did the mafia team know that the name of a protected person would show up in the host post? I sure didn't. If they didn't, then why would they even think to try something like that? The host post could have just as easily said, "No one has been killed."

Well, if you can think of that now, then why couldn't they think of that before enacting the plan?

Because hosts these days don't really reveal the target of failed nightkills.

Isn't it more likely that the mafia's kill was blocked or Boomslang was straight up protected than the mafia sacrificing a nightkill attempt after losing a teammate in a lynch?



Furthermore, why Boomslang? Why not another teammate who was actually taking heat?

You said "than I have been of anyone" twice.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Epignosis wrote:There is a huge problem with the whole "the mafia team blocked their own kill."

Did the mafia team know that the name of a protected person would show up in the host post? I sure didn't. If they didn't, then why would they even think to try something like that? The host post could have just as easily said, "No one has been killed."

Well, if you can think of that now, then why couldn't they think of that before enacting the plan?

Because hosts these days don't really reveal the target of failed nightkills.

Isn't it more likely that the mafia's kill was blocked or Boomslang was straight up protected than the mafia sacrificing a nightkill attempt after losing a teammate in a lynch?



Furthermore, why Boomslang? Why not another teammate who was actually taking heat?

Okay, you're probably right. I'm doing that plan next time I have the opportunity though.

I'm not really interested in arguing the badness of Boomslang. I think Wilgy and JJJ are better choices.

I think Epi's point is sound also in that in recent memory, the majority of games have not revealed the names of night kill targets. Mad Max and AMOUE are the only two I can think of. The default is that no names are revealed, and that means the mafia team has to have the presence of mind to even think of the idea at all without immediate confirmation that it's uniquely possible in this game.

To call Boomslang bad in this game requires so many assumptions, and the man's posts and Day 1 vote look good anyway.

Long Con wrote: You said "than I have been of anyone" twice.

Yep. Sometimes my phone fingers and brain aren't entirely in sync.

I'm opening the door for non-hostile dialogue with you. Whether you engage is your choice.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

thellama73 wrote:Does anyone else think Wilgy's sudden spurt of activity reads a bit like "Dude, you're going to get lynched. Go defend yourself!" prodding from a BTSC team?

What I like least is the tinfoil on Boomslang -- it almost seems trendy at this point.

Wilgy, what leads you there? Hell, anyone who suspects Boomslang should answer that. Is it just that he was a failed night kill target, or are his posts suspicious?

It's a too good to be true scenario. His vote on DDL was a really good look for him even before his survival.

@JJJ, I've skimmed your ISO and I'm not sure any more. I've been tonal tunnelling it seems. Llama "seems ok to you" but why? Is this a null or a positive read? What is the primary reason for this read?

@Marmot that's difficult as mostly everything I have is tone. I still read you civ. I recall your baddies say the darnest things and it makes me want to review Scotty. He off voted and missed and this raises my eye. I want to see if I can read his doubt of boomslang is genuine or not. Something I would like to know Marmot friend is your current read of Epi and niju

What are common thoughts on Scotty and Sriracha?

@LC, why do I need to have a reason for asking questions? Also now that I've explained it, can I have a response to your reads on INH and Quin?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Long Con wrote: You said "than I have been of anyone" twice.

Yep. Sometimes my phone fingers and brain aren't entirely in sync.

I'm opening the door for non-hostile dialogue with you. Whether you engage is your choice.

Hey, I'm down with a chat. I just don't know what to tell you. How important is it to you that everyone believes you're Civ?

Long Con wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Long Con wrote: You said "than I have been of anyone" twice.

Yep. Sometimes my phone fingers and brain aren't entirely in sync.

I'm opening the door for non-hostile dialogue with you. Whether you engage is your choice.

Hey, I'm down with a chat. I just don't know what to tell you. How important is it to you that everyone believes you're Civ?

I care a lot less about that than I care about why I should view you as a civilian.

@Wilgy:

Scotty and INH are the two players I'd call wild cards. I have no particularly compelling reasons to either trust or suspect them. I have on a couple occasions forgot they are playing despite they're being relatively involved (INH less so lately).

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Long Con wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Long Con wrote: You said "than I have been of anyone" twice.

Yep. Sometimes my phone fingers and brain aren't entirely in sync.

I'm opening the door for non-hostile dialogue with you. Whether you engage is your choice.

Hey, I'm down with a chat. I just don't know what to tell you. How important is it to you that everyone believes you're Civ?

I care a lot less about that than I care about why I should view you as a civilian.

If you cared more about why you should view me as a Civilian, then you would view me as a Civilian... if you were a Civilian. Although I would like to add that my favourite Civilians who believe I'm Civilian are civil enough to throw at least a little suspicion my way. I like those murderous Mafia filthy freaks of nature to think they have a chance to lynch me.

DrWilgy wrote:What are common thoughts on Scotty and Sriracha?

Two tough calls. I have enough suspicions that I am not considering them for now. If things don't pan out, they'll be up for lynch considerations sooner than those I believe in. And I am rarely straightforward about who I believe in.

@LC, why do I need to have a reason for asking questions? Also now that I've explained it, can I have a response to your reads on INH and Quin?

If you don't have a reason for asking questions, then I imagine your questions would be quite random and pointless.

I appreciated your explanation, now I see that you didn't just grab three names out of a hat, twice.

INH is an odd duck, and his disappearance is the oddest thing about him. Who knows? He needs to come back and engage, or I'd vote for him just due to the unresolved black mark on his record that is his Llama turnaround.

Quin I keep going back and forth on. Tough call!

Long Con wrote:If you cared more about why you should view me as a Civilian, then you would view me as a Civilian... if you were a Civilian. Although I would like to add that my favourite Civilians who believe I'm Civilian are civil enough to throw at least a little suspicion my way. I like those murderous Mafia filthy freaks of nature to think they have a chance to lynch me.

Posts like this add no value to the conversation. I already know you suspect me. Everyone knows that. We don't need to keep eating up thread space with that. I am trying have a dialogue, and if you are a civilian you'd be well-advised to let me.

If not, then I am done wasting my time.

Long Con, one thing I find myself thinking about is the 2015 GOC. In that game we both suspected each other quite a bit, and it was a discussion that lasted multiple game cycles. In that game we both turned out wrong (it was civilian/civilian). The difference I perceive is that in that game, you listened to what I was saying and weighed it against the evidence. You didn't change your mind, but you gave yourself a chance to change your mind. I don't get the same impression this time. I feel like you responded to my suspicion of you by turining it around, equal and opposite, upon me. How would you dispute that assertion?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Long Con, one thing I find myself thinking about is the 2015 GOC. In that game we both suspected each other quite a bit, and it was a discussion that lasted multiple game cycles. In that game we both turned out wrong (it was civilian/civilian). The difference I perceive is that in that game, you listened to what I was saying and weighed it against the evidence. You didn't change your mind, but you gave yourself a chance to change your mind. I don't get the same impression this time. I feel like you responded to my suspicion of you by turining it around, equal and opposite, upon me. How would you dispute that assertion?

In this game, your assertions have been to attack my posts and express disbelief that a Civ could say them. I'm a Civ, and I said them, and I have talked about why I said most of them, I think.

In this game, you accused me of contradicting myself with the DDL hypocrisy thingy. I discussed and explained that.

I don't really see any evidence to weigh against what you're saying. I'm not giving myself a chance to change my mind because I'm not changing my mind about my own alignment. I haven't accused you based on your stated suspicions of other people, I think that I've given other things you've said a fair shake. Things that don't involve my posts being an avalanche of bad.

There's something that I would just expect to see from you if you were Civ, and I can't really tell you or it will ruin it and I will never get to see it. Sorry to hold you to such a high standard, but dammit, I didn't expect us to be here now. I just wanted to be your friend, and our friendship would rain down like beautiful diamond facets, glinting in perfect harmony... or something like that.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I feel like you responded to my suspicion of you by turining it around, equal and opposite, upon me. How would you dispute that assertion?

No... that's not quite right.

Maybe this would be a better approach, since we're both entrenched in the biases our own reads:

Outside any dialogue between you and I, what do you feel is the most civilian thing you've done or said in this game?