The Syndicate

Russti, I'll try to be more clear in the future. One of the 4 unvoted is a recruit.

One of the people voted is a recruit and one is Bob. I feel fairly sure that Bob has had a vote in every lynch, and I find the player who seems to be doing the most 'directing' to be llama. He showed slight annoyance when Vomps dropped a late night vote on him during the last lynch. Which could be innocent on both their parts, or could have been that Llama is a recruit and lost his kill chance, or could have been that he and Vomps staged this, because Llama is Bob, and needed to survive.

I would like to see who has been voted in each lynch, though, because I only kept a copy of one of the lynches. If Llama was unvoted on any night, that would blow my theory. I still dont feel right about Kate, but again, I'd need to see a copy of the lynch votes for each lynch. And I am totally weirded out over Roxy. She would have been a good recruit having been cleared the day before, but I am just not sure based on her posting. She always fools me.

welcome to the world of my convoluted thought processes

thellama73 wrote:Alright, now I think it's time to start considering who the recruit might be among myself, SVS, Kate, Mata and MP.

I know it is not me. I don't think it's Kate, and based on the relationship between Kate and SVS, I don't think it's SVS. Mata seems very off to me, but I don't know her playstyle, so maybe she is always like this. I would believe any number of horrible things about MP.

Thoughts?

I don't think it's Mata. I suppose there's a slightly chance it could be Kate or SVS, but it seems much more likely to me that it's MP -- unless of course MP is Bob.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Matahari wrote:I tend to think its more important for bob and his recruits to have the plan fixed early on. I suggest we all show up about 20 minutes before lynch time and decide quickly. Less chance of manipulation by baddies.

I'm a bit lost on this front; why is that the case?

I'm OK with that though, since I think it seems most of us are on the same page regardless, and I do agree late voting is good. I have to leave momentarily but I'll be back after 3:00PM EST or so and I should be able to vote at the last minute.

sorry I missed this. The baddies will want a vote plan. They want to find out who is suspecting who, to get an idea of where the votes are going, as in any game. I know this isn't any game, its quite different. So what I'm saying is this: if no one announced who they were voting, just vote the last 3 or 4 minutes, any scrambling to cover Bob with a vote would be more evident.

Bob has to have a vote on him; the recruits are more expendable, but would prefer that at least one of them is unvoted. Its too late in the game now to really do anything about this though. After one more recruit and one more nightkill, they will have won anyhow, right? If someone can backtrack to see who has consistently had a saving vote placed on them closer to end of day, after a plan has pretty much been established, then it might point out Bob. But I don't have the time today or the brain power.

Vompatti wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

Russtifinko wrote:I'm a little surprised no one shares my thoughts on BWT, but that being what it is I'm happy to talk about myself as well. Defending oneself in mafia seems to present pretty few possibilities, but if anyone has any concerns, thread-based or otherwise, that they'd like me to address I'll be more than happy to do so, especially if it helps us avoid a fourth civ lynch in a row.

I have no answer to S~V~S's vague, "he's not around enough". Vomps has objectively been around less than me, and in my opinion contributed less of value, but if she'd rather vote for me that's her perogative. I stand by what I said before: I live in Europe, wake up for work every weekday at 5am, and because of that am usually in bed by 10 or 11pm. Thus I miss most of your evenings, which is when most of the posting is done. I'm sorry if I miss big discussions, but that will be the case until June when I move back to the States, and I do always take care to comment on what's been said afterward.

Congratulations, Russ. This post screams "sincerity" to me. I am going to trust my initial gut and vote for Vompatti over you (I will wait until closer to closing time to actually cast the vote, just in case)

And I'm leaning towards voting for BWT over Russ.

It screams sincerity to me too, and I agree S~V~S's argument against Russ popping "in and out" makes no sense, but I do think Russ could be a candidate for Bob or a recruit nonetheless.

Why are you leaning BWT, Vomps, can you elaborate?

thellama73 wrote:Alright, now I think it's time to start considering who the recruit might be among myself, SVS, Kate, Mata and MP.

I know it is not me. I don't think it's Kate, and based on the relationship between Kate and SVS, I don't think it's SVS. Mata seems very off to me, but I don't know her playstyle, so maybe she is always like this. I would believe any number of horrible things about MP.

Thoughts?

It is definitely not me. I'm not Bob and recruiting me prior to now would have been really stupid since I was so absent. I don't think it's Mata, so doesn't that leave Kate or S~V~S by process of elimination? It's weird because I'm reading both of them as two more likely unrecruited or unBob at the moment, but now that you bring that up, it makes no sense -- it has to be Mata then or at least one of them.

Matahari wrote:Russti, I'll try to be more clear in the future. One of the 4 unvoted is a recruit.

One of the people voted is a recruit and one is Bob. I feel fairly sure that Bob has had a vote in every lynch, and I find the player who seems to be doing the most 'directing' to be llama. He showed slight annoyance when Vomps dropped a late night vote on him during the last lynch. Which could be innocent on both their parts, or could have been that Llama is a recruit and lost his kill chance, or could have been that he and Vomps staged this, because Llama is Bob, and needed to survive.

I would like to see who has been voted in each lynch, though, because I only kept a copy of one of the lynches. If Llama was unvoted on any night, that would blow my theory. I still dont feel right about Kate, but again, I'd need to see a copy of the lynch votes for each lynch. And I am totally weirded out over Roxy. She would have been a good recruit having been cleared the day before, but I am just not sure based on her posting. She always fools me.

welcome to the world of my convoluted thought processes

I would like to see the voting records as well. Does anyone have all of these, please? I haven't been able to keep track of anything.

Why don't you feel right about Kate? And that's an interesting thought on llama. I still think llama would have made an excellent recruit for the end of the Day 2 recruit, and with Snow Dog now gone, occam's razor suggests to me that Bob would have picked him that night, but maybe not.

I'm starting to think that Bob is in the Llama, S~V~S, Kate, and Mata group as opposed to the Rox, BWT, Vomps, and Russ one, meaning two of the first group would be bad and one of the second would be bad. That being said, I could see two of either of those latter four as bad as well.

This is ridiculous.

Matahari wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Matahari wrote:I tend to think its more important for bob and his recruits to have the plan fixed early on. I suggest we all show up about 20 minutes before lynch time and decide quickly. Less chance of manipulation by baddies.

I'm a bit lost on this front; why is that the case?

I'm OK with that though, since I think it seems most of us are on the same page regardless, and I do agree late voting is good. I have to leave momentarily but I'll be back after 3:00PM EST or so and I should be able to vote at the last minute.

sorry I missed this. The baddies will want a vote plan. They want to find out who is suspecting who, to get an idea of where the votes are going, as in any game. I know this isn't any game, its quite different. So what I'm saying is this: if no one announced who they were voting, just vote the last 3 or 4 minutes, any scrambling to cover Bob with a vote would be more evident.

Bob has to have a vote on him; the recruits are more expendable, but would prefer that at least one of them is unvoted. Its too late in the game now to really do anything about this though. After one more recruit and one more nightkill, they will have won anyhow, right? If someone can backtrack to see who has consistently had a saving vote placed on them closer to end of day, after a plan has pretty much been established, then it might point out Bob. But I don't have the time today or the brain power.

I hadn't thought about it this way, but that makes sense, and they'd definitely want to steer the thread.

I'm really starting to wonder if S~V~S is baddie. I mean, think about it...

S~V~S wrote:Have no doubts about me, folks, I am true blue and unrecruited

I voted early because I will not be around to talk the last 20 like Mata wants to, and everyone else keeps talking about how we have to agree and have a plan, but no one seems to actually want to talk about what the plan should be. So I suspect Russ, I know several others have said they do as well. So my candidate for the plan is to Maybe put 2 votes on the person we trust the least (I nominate Russ ) and give everyone else except someone we all feel good about (I might think Llama or Kate, but that is up to you guys since as I said when I voted, I WON"T BE HERE) and leave that one person open, and one person with 2 votes, and everyone else with one. You can choose to put the second on Russ if you agree with me, or you can put it on someone else (I would suggest not me, as I am not BOB and am also not a recruit, but you guys decide). If it is someone else, i have covered Russ, which works for me, since I do not trust him. At all.

So this is my plan:

One person with 2 votes, one person with zero votes, everyone else with one. I don't trust Russ, so i placed one on him, I do not wish him to to be uncovered. I am now off to go garage sale-ing and pick out paint for a night stand, and then will be going to a garden show. I hope to come back to a thread in which I am alive

This is what she suggests. Wouldn't someone with 2 votes and a person with 0 and then everyone else with 1 lead to intense possible baddie manipulation? Also, before this post, she didn't even mention Russ until Kate said something like "No one is suspecting Russ?" and then S~V~S says yeah because he pops in and out, but that she'd also consider Vomps, but then she drops Vomps and says in this post above that she trusts Russ the least. Now that you explained what you meant regarding the vote plan, Mata, it seems to me S~V~S is most trying to steer the thread right now, and I'm beginning to wonder if my read on her is off. It's also entirely possible that she is on the same side as BWT. I mean, think about it, how many of us took at face value how hard she's been defending him and also with her and Kate vouching each other? It just scares the hell out of me that perhaps Bob and his two recruits, or even just Bob and one recruit, have been vouching for each other right in front of our faces.

I don't know at this point. I really want to hear from other people before anyone else decides to vote any further.

Mp maybe you are who mata warned about. Popping up to dissuade us from our plan and suggesting civ lynches...

If bob is in the second group then I'd bet my life it's llama.

Kate wrote:Mp maybe you are who mata warned about. Popping up to dissuade us from our plan and suggesting civ lynches...

I am not who Mata is warning about. That seems like a very silly comment to make because you could argue that anyone discussing anything at this point is trying to do that. You can feel free to vote however you would like, and everyone else can do the same, but it's obvious we need to catch a baddie this lynch, and I'm very torn. I don't feel like things in this game have been very cut and dry at all.

As I said previously, I'm fine with Russ, Vomps, or BWT, as they are all possible and likely candidates, but I'm trying to think everything through, because you, S~V~S, Roxy, and Llama are also possible candidates in my book, and if you can't see why I would think that, then I don't know what to tell you.

This comment by you seems sinister or misguided.

Kate wrote:If bob is in the second group then I'd bet my life it's llama.

Why? That's a strong assertion.

And so do you have voting records, Kate? You have been very active and you seemed to post some earlier. Can you be some assistance and post those, if you have them, please? Or can anyone else? I don't have any of them and the only voting information is the information that llama summarized about yesterday's vote and how it corresponds to how the NK went down.

Sorry to triple post. But Kate, if llama and I are both in the second group, why would you bet your life that he is Bob, and why would you wait until now to say that? Can you elaborate when you get a chance?

Thankfully, I'll be around to vote at the last minute, as I'm just studying and what not.

Matahari wrote: Bob has to have a vote on him;

No he doesn't, because as we've explained to you multiple times Bob can't kill, so a vote on him does not stop an NK. Why do you keep making false assertions like this? I think it must be you trying to misdirect us, and I think my earlier suspicion of you was warranted.

Kate wrote:If bob is in the second group then I'd bet my life it's llama.

Fine, but I want everyone to remember what happened the time Kate was willing to bet her life on Nevinera being bad.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Matahari wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Matahari wrote:I tend to think its more important for bob and his recruits to have the plan fixed early on. I suggest we all show up about 20 minutes before lynch time and decide quickly. Less chance of manipulation by baddies.

I'm a bit lost on this front; why is that the case?

I'm OK with that though, since I think it seems most of us are on the same page regardless, and I do agree late voting is good. I have to leave momentarily but I'll be back after 3:00PM EST or so and I should be able to vote at the last minute.

sorry I missed this. The baddies will want a vote plan. They want to find out who is suspecting who, to get an idea of where the votes are going, as in any game. I know this isn't any game, its quite different. So what I'm saying is this: if no one announced who they were voting, just vote the last 3 or 4 minutes, any scrambling to cover Bob with a vote would be more evident.

Bob has to have a vote on him; the recruits are more expendable, but would prefer that at least one of them is unvoted. Its too late in the game now to really do anything about this though. After one more recruit and one more nightkill, they will have won anyhow, right? If someone can backtrack to see who has consistently had a saving vote placed on them closer to end of day, after a plan has pretty much been established, then it might point out Bob. But I don't have the time today or the brain power.

I hadn't thought about it this way, but that makes sense, and they'd definitely want to steer the thread.

I'm really starting to wonder if S~V~S is baddie. I mean, think about it...

S~V~S wrote:Have no doubts about me, folks, I am true blue and unrecruited

I voted early because I will not be around to talk the last 20 like Mata wants to, and everyone else keeps talking about how we have to agree and have a plan, but no one seems to actually want to talk about what the plan should be. So I suspect Russ, I know several others have said they do as well. So my candidate for the plan is to Maybe put 2 votes on the person we trust the least (I nominate Russ ) and give everyone else except someone we all feel good about (I might think Llama or Kate, but that is up to you guys since as I said when I voted, I WON"T BE HERE) and leave that one person open, and one person with 2 votes, and everyone else with one. You can choose to put the second on Russ if you agree with me, or you can put it on someone else (I would suggest not me, as I am not BOB and am also not a recruit, but you guys decide). If it is someone else, i have covered Russ, which works for me, since I do not trust him. At all.

So this is my plan:

One person with 2 votes, one person with zero votes, everyone else with one. I don't trust Russ, so i placed one on him, I do not wish him to to be uncovered. I am now off to go garage sale-ing and pick out paint for a night stand, and then will be going to a garden show. I hope to come back to a thread in which I am alive

This is what she suggests. Wouldn't someone with 2 votes and a person with 0 and then everyone else with 1 lead to intense possible baddie manipulation? Also, before this post, she didn't even mention Russ until Kate said something like "No one is suspecting Russ?" and then S~V~S says yeah because he pops in and out, but that she'd also consider Vomps, but then she drops Vomps and says in this post above that she trusts Russ the least. Now that you explained what you meant regarding the vote plan, Mata, it seems to me S~V~S is most trying to steer the thread right now, and I'm beginning to wonder if my read on her is off. It's also entirely possible that she is on the same side as BWT. I mean, think about it, how many of us took at face value how hard she's been defending him and also with her and Kate vouching each other? It just scares the hell out of me that perhaps Bob and his two recruits, or even just Bob and one recruit, have been vouching for each other right in front of our faces.

How would this lead to intense baddie manipulation? Person two votes is lynched, and unless the one open person is recruited, no NK. And I am not steering, I am barely here lol. This seem to cover the most people, and establishes who we trust and who we don't. Like i said, if you all trust Russti, by all means don't put another vote on him. I don;t and I would like him covered.

I have my reasons for trusting who i trust. And thats about all I have to say about that. It is possible that either of them could be recruited since I first said i trust them, but I don't think either of them is Bob or the first recruit, and I doubt kate is recruited at all. BWT possibly since Nevs lynch, he is mighty quiet

thellama73 wrote:

Matahari wrote: Bob has to have a vote on him;

No he doesn't, because as we've explained to you multiple times Bob can't kill, so a vote on him does not stop an NK. Why do you keep making false assertions like this? I think it must be you trying to misdirect us, and I think my earlier suspicion of you was warranted.

I didn't notice this when she said it. You're correct, Bob wouldn't need a vote. Why would they even want a vote on Bob? Couldn't they screw with us by having a vote on or off Bob? I suppose it doesn't matter once you assume one person in either group is Bob, it's just a matter of figuring out who it is.

thellama73 wrote:

Kate wrote:If bob is in the second group then I'd bet my life it's llama.

Fine, but I want everyone to remember what happened the time Kate was willing to bet her life on Nevinera being bad.

This is an interesting point. I really want to hear what she has to say in elaboration of it.

S~V~S wrote:
How would this lead to intense baddie manipulation? Person two votes is lynched, and unless the one open person is recruited, no NK. And I am not steering, I am barely here lol. This seem to cover the most people, and establishes who we trust and who we don't. Like i said, if you all trust Russti, by all means don't put another vote on him. I don;t and I would like him covered.

I have my reasons for trusting who i trust. And thats about all I have to say about that. It is possible that either of them could be recruited since I first said i trust them, but I don't think either of them is Bob or the first recruit, and I doubt kate is recruited at all. BWT possibly since Nevs lynch, he is mighty quiet

It could lead to intense baddie manipulation if baddies don't follow it and get a civvie lynched. I mean, it would in theory mean we know who they are, but wouldn't they be close to winning if they get a civvie lynch today? Correct me if I'm wrong though.

I do agree covering people is favorable, but to spread it so thin like that and to plan in advance to spread it like that, I don't know. I don't trust ANYONE in this game but myself, honestly, and it scares me that anyone feels they could sincerely trust anyone in this game for longer than one in-between recruiting cycle.

I really wish BWT would come and say something; I do agree he's quiet. I don't understand it. Why do you doubt Kate has been recruited; is this ONLY because of your in-game read on her or is there another reason as well? I'm just trying to make sure here.

I honestly feel more paranoid in this game than I have in any other for a while and that says something. The fact that any vouching can even be going on beyond just a little bit is something I can't fathom, but maybe that's just me.

I am going to go back to studying for another 30-60 minutes and then I'll try thread searching a bit to make up my mind. I suppose I have a few ideas of where I THINK I'd prefer my vote to be, but I don't know if those are right; I hope to god they are.

MP, SVS's plan about 2 votes on one, zero votes on one, and one on everyone else is also kind of scary. If Ben was recruited already, then that is not a good vote plan.

MovingPictures07 wrote:And so do you have voting records, Kate? You have been very active and you seemed to post some earlier. Can you be some assistance and post those, if you have them, please? Or can anyone else? I don't have any of them and the only voting information is the information that llama summarized about yesterday's vote and how it corresponds to how the NK went down.

The only one I had was day three and I already gave it.

thellama73 wrote:

Matahari wrote: Bob has to have a vote on him;

No he doesn't, because as we've explained to you multiple times Bob can't kill, so a vote on him does not stop an NK. Why do you keep making false assertions like this? I think it must be you trying to misdirect us, and I think my earlier suspicion of you was warranted.

Kate wrote:If bob is in the second group then I'd bet my life it's llama.

Fine, but I want everyone to remember what happened the time Kate was willing to bet her life on Nevinera being bad.

From what I understood it was me svs mata and u. I didn't realize mp was in that group. And I alsi note u were comfortable w me until I mentioned u.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Sorry to triple post. But Kate, if llama and I are both in the second group, why would you bet your life that he is Bob, and why would you wait until now to say that? Can you elaborate when you get a chance?

Thankfully, I'll be around to vote at the last minute, as I'm just studying and what not.

I disnt realize uwere in that group when I said it but I woyld still pick llama as bob bf u mata svs or obv me.

Mata I think u were right. We should have kept quiet. I think we are right on russ and ppl are trying to throw us off now.

Matahari wrote:MP, SVS's plan about 2 votes on one, zero votes on one, and one on everyone else is also kind of scary. If Ben was recruited already, then that is not a good vote plan.

Well, then come up with another one

No one else was talking last night or this AM when i had time, no one is EVER talking when i have time (I really should not be on now, lol, and am done after this). So I threw a vote on the person I think I most want to be covered, you guys come up with a better plan that does not lead to baddie manipulation.

OH WAIT, there is no way to avoid baddie manipulation. Geez.

But serisously, please come up with a better plan, there must be one. I for one am happy to have Russ covered

Well, I suppose I have to vote. Going with my conscience and covering BWT, even if it does get me killed. I've done all I can...

Kate, it is weird that Llama ignored the reason why Bob has to have a vote on him each night. He has to be protected at all costs. We cant have him go voteless on a night when a minion kills, or he will be among the guilty, and I guess his minions still get to kill without him, but without him, the team cant grow. It just becomes an ordinary mafia game.

and by "we", I mean as a whole game principle. or do I?

Matahari wrote:Kate, it is weird that Llama ignored the reason why Bob has to have a vote on him each night. He has to be protected at all costs. We cant have him go voteless on a night when a minion kills, or he will be among the guilty, and I guess his minions still get to kill without him, but without him, the team cant grow. It just becomes an ordinary mafia game.

Bob doesn;t have to have a vote on him. Read the roles. From the beginning of this game, I have never had a clue what you are talking about.

thellama73 wrote:

Matahari wrote:Kate, it is weird that Llama ignored the reason why Bob has to have a vote on him each night. He has to be protected at all costs. We cant have him go voteless on a night when a minion kills, or he will be among the guilty, and I guess his minions still get to kill without him, but without him, the team cant grow. It just becomes an ordinary mafia game.

Bob doesn;t have to have a vote on him. Read the roles. From the beginning of this game, I have never had a clue what you are talking about.

From a stategy pov, Llama. If Bob is left voteless on a night with a kill, then Bob runs the risk of being considered as a suspect.

That makes slightly more sense, but still doesn't really work because the minions that don't kill will be suspected in the group that does have votes, as will BOB.

thellama73 wrote:That makes slightly more sense, but still doesn't really work because the minions that don't kill will be suspected in the group that does have votes, as will BOB.

I see your point. Do you remember who did not have a vote in the first lynch?

And why did you say "We can't have him go voteless" when it is the baddies who would want a voet on him to shield him from suspicion? Was that a slip up?

linki: Alas, I was out of town for the first lynch and don't have the vote list.

Matahari wrote:and by "we", I mean as a whole game principle. or do I?

^^

I'll go back and look, while I have time

What is a "whole game principle?"

I really don't like this waiting until the last minute for all of us to vote, business. he rush of votes and the chaos that comes with will shield any attempts at baddie vote manipulation. I thought the original plan was to pile our votes onto a consensus getter, plus a few covers, and then if the baddies tried to change the result it would be obvious? Now there is no way to tell who is voting for honest reasons and who is voting for manipulative purposes.

not much time for the day reading, I forgot it was a decided on vote for everyone to vote the person above. Makes me want to go back and see who pushed for the plan.

Kate wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:And so do you have voting records, Kate? You have been very active and you seemed to post some earlier. Can you be some assistance and post those, if you have them, please? Or can anyone else? I don't have any of them and the only voting information is the information that llama summarized about yesterday's vote and how it corresponds to how the NK went down.

The only one I had was day three and I already gave it.

Dang. Well thanks anyway!

Kate wrote:Mata I think u were right. We should have kept quiet. I think we are right on russ and ppl are trying to throw us off now.

Which people?

I'm entirely considering Russ is baddie, but I also think Vomps and BWT could be baddie, and it seems to me S~V~S is basing her decision off of some weird gut/read-based criteria, which i can understand, but for this game and this game's setup of recruiting it makes hardly any sense to me.

Kate wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Sorry to triple post. But Kate, if llama and I are both in the second group, why would you bet your life that he is Bob, and why would you wait until now to say that? Can you elaborate when you get a chance?

Thankfully, I'll be around to vote at the last minute, as I'm just studying and what not.

I disnt realize uwere in that group when I said it but I woyld still pick llama as bob bf u mata svs or obv me.

Oh, okay. Why though, is there any reason in particular?

*day 1 reading

Matahari wrote:not much time for the day reading, I forgot it was a decided on vote for everyone to vote the person above. Makes me want to go back and see who pushed for the plan.

That was my idea and I still think it was the best idea for the time, honestly.

I have to vote now. At grocery store w kids phone dying. We need to get bob today. I'm voting llama.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Matahari wrote:not much time for the day reading, I forgot it was a decided on vote for everyone to vote the person above. Makes me want to go back and see who pushed for the plan.

That was my idea and I still think it was the best idea for the time, honestly.

I quite agree that it made sense for the first day. It bought us some time to try to ferret out BOB through forum posts. Now, however, we need cohesion. Who are you voting for, MP? I don't understand Mata and Kate's assertion that we should all vote blindly without communicating with each other. It seems like exactly what the baddies would want.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Matahari wrote:not much time for the day reading, I forgot it was a decided on vote for everyone to vote the person above. Makes me want to go back and see who pushed for the plan.

That was my idea and I still think it was the best idea for the time, honestly.

Well.... it definitely provided great cover for Bob and his minion. No way to look back now and get a clue from it.

Well, Llama, have you got a top consensus votegetter, or whatever you called it? I see nothing but ping-pong going on each day-

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Vompatti wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

Russtifinko wrote:I'm a little surprised no one shares my thoughts on BWT, but that being what it is I'm happy to talk about myself as well. Defending oneself in mafia seems to present pretty few possibilities, but if anyone has any concerns, thread-based or otherwise, that they'd like me to address I'll be more than happy to do so, especially if it helps us avoid a fourth civ lynch in a row.

I have no answer to S~V~S's vague, "he's not around enough". Vomps has objectively been around less than me, and in my opinion contributed less of value, but if she'd rather vote for me that's her perogative. I stand by what I said before: I live in Europe, wake up for work every weekday at 5am, and because of that am usually in bed by 10 or 11pm. Thus I miss most of your evenings, which is when most of the posting is done. I'm sorry if I miss big discussions, but that will be the case until June when I move back to the States, and I do always take care to comment on what's been said afterward.

Congratulations, Russ. This post screams "sincerity" to me. I am going to trust my initial gut and vote for Vompatti over you (I will wait until closer to closing time to actually cast the vote, just in case)

And I'm leaning towards voting for BWT over Russ.

It screams sincerity to me too, and I agree S~V~S's argument against Russ popping "in and out" makes no sense, but I do think Russ could be a candidate for Bob or a recruit nonetheless.

Why are you leaning BWT, Vomps, can you elaborate?

I think Russ has some good points here:

Russtifinko wrote:I think BWT is a MUCH better candidate than either me or Vomps, and here's why.

He voted for 2 people who either were civs (Nev) or almost certainly were (Mata) at the time he voted them.

Here viewtopic.php?f=20&t=136&p=17222#p17222 he excuses his vote for BF by saying he hasn't had time to get into the game. Says he hasn't had time for the game and will reread some people (which he never does).

Here viewtopic.php?f=20&t=136&start=560 he says he may eye Kate today, and then writes a paragraph about why she shouldn't be looked at. He then says he doesn't know who to look at today. He suggests low posters, which is both a bit ironic and a bit pingy, in my opinion. He says he finally has time for the game and will be around all day, after which he writes one post defending Kate and isn't heard from the rest of the day. In his most recent post on Thursday he says he forgot to check in and get caught up, which he apparently hadn't done before.

The above is enough to convince me to vote for BWT instead of Russ, along with my feeling that the suspicion of Russ throughout the game has been exaggerated whereas BWT seems to have been blindly trusted.

This, however, seems far-fetched:

Russtifinko wrote:Combine the thread info with the fact that BWT won Minecraft as a baddie largely by not being present, and I think we're seeing a bad BWT. Kate and S~V~S's defenses of him worry me a lot. Kate and S~V~S are best friends irl and Kate won Minecraft with BWT, so they both seem like logical recruits for her. Furthermore, S~V~S was the first to defend Kate after the Nev debacle, saying she would never lead a lynch like that as a baddie. I'm starting to think Kate did just that.

If my theory is right, then what happened last night lines up perfectly. One uncovered recruit (BWT) killed, one was covered (S~V~S), and Kate is more or less clear of suspicion.

I'd be more inclined to believe that Kate and SVS are good and BWT is Bob (as I think he's been away too much to be a particularly useful recruit). I don't remember the defenses Russ is referring to and I'm not going to look them up (maybe someone else will?), but there's probably a logical explanation for them that doesn't make Kate and SVS bad.

Matahari wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Matahari wrote:not much time for the day reading, I forgot it was a decided on vote for everyone to vote the person above. Makes me want to go back and see who pushed for the plan.

That was my idea and I still think it was the best idea for the time, honestly.

Well.... it definitely provided great cover for Bob and his minion. No way to look back now and get a clue from it.

Well, Llama, have you got a top consensus votegetter, or whatever you called it? I see nothing but ping-pong going on each day-

'

I don't, sadly. Kate's recent actions make me think she is the day 4 recruit. It would be a brilliant move by Bob since we all bought her as a civvie after her Nevinera gambit.

I also think you are likely bad, since nothing yo have done this game makes since to me. So I wouldn't mind a cover vote on either you or her.

I believe instinct matters in a game as twisted as this one, and Russ' defense of himself completely convinced me that he is on the level. I will probably follow his BWT vote if no one else emerges as a clear winner.

thellama73 wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Matahari wrote:not much time for the day reading, I forgot it was a decided on vote for everyone to vote the person above. Makes me want to go back and see who pushed for the plan.

That was my idea and I still think it was the best idea for the time, honestly.

I quite agree that it made sense for the first day. It bought us some time to try to ferret out BOB through forum posts. Now, however, we need cohesion. Who are you voting for, MP? I don't understand Mata and Kate's assertion that we should all vote blindly without communicating with each other. It seems like exactly what the baddies would want.

I keep going back and forth. If any of S~V~S, Kate, or Mata is bad, then I think at least two of them have to be, but part of my gut is saying those players seem most civvie. However, the other part of my gut does think it weird how Kate and S~V~S in particular keep trying to steer the thread and I'm wondering if it's out of manipulation. It's very possible that BWT, Kate, and S~V~S could be Bob and his two recruits, or even substitute Kate or S~V~S for Mata. Mata can't be Bob though, can she? So I don't know.

Then there's the other group of Russ, Vomps, and BWT, whom I could see as Bob or recruited, any of them. And I suppose Rox could be Bob or recruited, but I don't know. My gut's not agreeing as much there as the others.

I think you would have made an excellent candidate for recruiting on Day 2, still, but most of your posts are ringing sincere to me. But I'm really fucking torn (for lack of a better phrase describing how I feel right now) on all of this.

What are you thinking? I'm currently in the process of looking back at some of the previous posts as well, but it hasn't proven to be particularly too enlightening. It only keeps me guessing on whether I'm wrong about Kate, Mata and S~V~S seeming most likely civvie. Because if one of you, me, Kate, S~V~S, and Mata is a recruit, and it's not you or me (and I KNOW it's not me) AND you're not Bob, then it HAS to be one of them. Then there HAS to be one of Russ, BWT, Vomps, and Roxy. Then there's Bob somewhere as well. I think it would help to get a feel for what you're feeling currently, in order for me to make a determination.

I'd like to hear what Rox has to say as well.

I would propose that MP, Vomps and I vote BWT. That will give him four and we won't be able to be overruled by the baddies. Then, if someone else wants to cover Mata or Kate, I would be happy.

thellama73 wrote:I would propose that MP, Vomps and I vote BWT. That will give him four and we won't be able to be overruled by the baddies. Then, if someone else wants to cover Mata or Kate, I would be happy.

As I don't trust BWT and I don't think we should split the votes much further I'm fine with this.

I honestly cant decide, but I'm guessing that one of the 3 with votes already is Bob, so I'll probably vote one of them

I have to say, Vomps's and Russ's recent posts have me feeling better about them, even though on the other hand I realize the possibility for them to be Bob OR recruit is there. What do others think?

Matahari wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Matahari wrote:not much time for the day reading, I forgot it was a decided on vote for everyone to vote the person above. Makes me want to go back and see who pushed for the plan.

That was my idea and I still think it was the best idea for the time, honestly.

Well.... it definitely provided great cover for Bob and his minion. No way to look back now and get a clue from it.

Well, Llama, have you got a top consensus votegetter, or whatever you called it? I see nothing but ping-pong going on each day-

How do you figure? What were we supposed to do, lynch a civvie blindly and then risk a NK right off the bat, and perhaps not even have any information from that?

I don't necessarily think it was the greatest plan ever, but I thought it made sense at the time, and I stand by my train of thought on that.

Vompatti wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Vompatti wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

Russtifinko wrote:I'm a little surprised no one shares my thoughts on BWT, but that being what it is I'm happy to talk about myself as well. Defending oneself in mafia seems to present pretty few possibilities, but if anyone has any concerns, thread-based or otherwise, that they'd like me to address I'll be more than happy to do so, especially if it helps us avoid a fourth civ lynch in a row.

I have no answer to S~V~S's vague, "he's not around enough". Vomps has objectively been around less than me, and in my opinion contributed less of value, but if she'd rather vote for me that's her perogative. I stand by what I said before: I live in Europe, wake up for work every weekday at 5am, and because of that am usually in bed by 10 or 11pm. Thus I miss most of your evenings, which is when most of the posting is done. I'm sorry if I miss big discussions, but that will be the case until June when I move back to the States, and I do always take care to comment on what's been said afterward.

Congratulations, Russ. This post screams "sincerity" to me. I am going to trust my initial gut and vote for Vompatti over you (I will wait until closer to closing time to actually cast the vote, just in case)

And I'm leaning towards voting for BWT over Russ.

It screams sincerity to me too, and I agree S~V~S's argument against Russ popping "in and out" makes no sense, but I do think Russ could be a candidate for Bob or a recruit nonetheless.

Why are you leaning BWT, Vomps, can you elaborate?

I think Russ has some good points here:

Russtifinko wrote:I think BWT is a MUCH better candidate than either me or Vomps, and here's why.

He voted for 2 people who either were civs (Nev) or almost certainly were (Mata) at the time he voted them.

Here viewtopic.php?f=20&t=136&p=17222#p17222 he excuses his vote for BF by saying he hasn't had time to get into the game. Says he hasn't had time for the game and will reread some people (which he never does).

Here viewtopic.php?f=20&t=136&start=560 he says he may eye Kate today, and then writes a paragraph about why she shouldn't be looked at. He then says he doesn't know who to look at today. He suggests low posters, which is both a bit ironic and a bit pingy, in my opinion. He says he finally has time for the game and will be around all day, after which he writes one post defending Kate and isn't heard from the rest of the day. In his most recent post on Thursday he says he forgot to check in and get caught up, which he apparently hadn't done before.

The above is enough to convince me to vote for BWT instead of Russ, along with my feeling that the suspicion of Russ throughout the game has been exaggerated whereas BWT seems to have been blindly trusted.

This, however, seems far-fetched:

Russtifinko wrote:Combine the thread info with the fact that BWT won Minecraft as a baddie largely by not being present, and I think we're seeing a bad BWT. Kate and S~V~S's defenses of him worry me a lot. Kate and S~V~S are best friends irl and Kate won Minecraft with BWT, so they both seem like logical recruits for her. Furthermore, S~V~S was the first to defend Kate after the Nev debacle, saying she would never lead a lynch like that as a baddie. I'm starting to think Kate did just that.

If my theory is right, then what happened last night lines up perfectly. One uncovered recruit (BWT) killed, one was covered (S~V~S), and Kate is more or less clear of suspicion.

I'd be more inclined to believe that Kate and SVS are good and BWT is Bob (as I think he's been away too much to be a particularly useful recruit). I don't remember the defenses Russ is referring to and I'm not going to look them up (maybe someone else will?), but there's probably a logical explanation for them that doesn't make Kate and SVS bad.

Interesting observations, Vomps, thanks. You know, it is definitely possible BWT is Bob, because I agree he wouldn't have made the most logical choice for a recruit at any given time.

This could be way off the mark, but let's assume it is. Let's say BWT is Bob and that you, Rox, and Russ are not. That means we have one recruit in Kate, Mata, SVS, or llama, and then another in Vomps, Russ, and Rox. If Russ is wrong about SVS and Kate and you are right, then do you think llama or Mata is the other recruit, and who out of Russ and Rox would be the other recruit then?

I'm not saying any of this is right at all. But I wanted us to think it through so that we can determine if it makes sense or not given everyone's behavior. Because maybe we can figure out a logical group of three people. I know it seems unlikely, but I don't know at this point. I feel like I'm having trouble deciding who to trust, so group discussion about who to cover RIGHT NOW is very important.

^Rox pointed out that she can't be a recruit unless she was recruited today.

Vompatti wrote:

thellama73 wrote:I would propose that MP, Vomps and I vote BWT. That will give him four and we won't be able to be overruled by the baddies. Then, if someone else wants to cover Mata or Kate, I would be happy.

As I don't trust BWT and I don't think we should split the votes much further I'm fine with this.

I could be OK with this. BWT definitely makes sense as Bob or a recruit and he's failed to give me any reason to think otherwise, so instead of going based surely off of possibilities, it seems like a good enough reason to go with it. Are we sure that it should be BWT and not Russ or anyone else? I do feel he adequately defended once he posted a bit more, but I want to make sure I'm not being played and that we're on a similar page here. Let me know what you think about what I posted above to Vomps.

Matahari wrote:I honestly cant decide, but I'm guessing that one of the 3 with votes already is Bob, so I'll probably vote one of them

Why? I'm not sure I follow why that would be.

thellama73 wrote:^Rox pointed out that she can't be a recruit unless she was recruited today.

Yes, you're right, I apologize; she told me that earlier too. So she would have to be Bob, unless she has been recruited today. So in those circumstances above... if BWT was Bob, wouldn't Russ or Vomps have to be the recruit? Do we think BWT is more likely Bob? What if Vomps is Bob?

Damn this game to hell.

Here caught up and no consensus I am leaning Russ but Teeth is still mysteriously silent and it makes me very twitchy - thats how I am leaning tbh

I really think Russ is good. My greatest fear is that SVS and Kate have been playing a brilliant team game since day one that most baddie teams would find too risky.