The Syndicate

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:42 am Voting LC because I find his Owner vote bad

What's your take on Owner? Naughty or nice?

Owner is town, guys.

I'm pretty sure.

I like Logic giving content, but I don't see anything that's not just as easy to do as scum if that's his style. It's hard to read for me, because "+/- scum/town points" isn't really my style. It gets confusing when he's like "-town points" to his top town reads and stuff.

Anyway. For now I'll just observe that I don't get how Bob was his top town read at a point. And that I think he's dancing around LC a bit. Possibly teamed.

I'm looking for scum mostly between Logic, LC, Bob and Speed.

Speed is more ???
He could clear things up. But I don't know if he has the highest chance of flipping scum.

[VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

For now.

Joining indiglo and Mac feels better as well, now that I see it.

The Owner wagon is bad.

Picking part things that "doesn't make sense" in Owner's ISO is the easiest thing ever, and she is often scape goated for it. That's not the question one should be asking though. Is she scum or not? I think not. Her WIFOMing herself about Epi looks genuine. She does like to compare games a lot.

I will defer to your judgment on this and likely move my vote elsewhere this afternoon.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:44 pm I will defer to your judgment on this and likely move my vote elsewhere this afternoon.

I really hope I'm not wrong then.
But I do stand by it, and it's definitely not the place I would vote today based on what I know about Owner.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:01 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:15 pm Damn it that kill sucked. You mafia are the suck. Eat a bag of mafia dicks.

Yup. Also it was kind of weird. Didn't they replace Rej? Why prioritize the kill a Miller? lol

Both of the kills are weird:
Kill someone that can only 2-word post.
And then kill a miller.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:31 pm I like Logic giving content, but I don't see anything that's not just as easy to do as scum if that's his style. It's hard to read for me, because "+/- scum/town points" isn't really my style. It gets confusing when he's like "-town points" to his top town reads and stuff.

Anyway. For now I'll just observe that I don't get how Bob was his top town read at a point. And that I think he's dancing around LC a bit. Possibly teamed.

My top town is not yet lock town. I was giving notes a "-town" to indicate something that looked fishy, regardless of who says it. You might also notice that I give my top scum at least 1 "+town" points. So why didn't you have any issue with that?

Logic wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:50 pmBoth of the kills are weird:
Kill someone that can only 2-word post.
And then kill a miller.

It is weird. I would expect indiglo or me to be killed tbh.
Maybe there's some action/kill mechanic that's unusual?
Maybe Rejeetic was killed by town/other and mafia's kille fail?
Maybe I won't know until the game is over, and this is kind of useless speculation?

You can call me Dizzy, btw. If you'd like. ^^

Logic wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:54 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:31 pm I like Logic giving content, but I don't see anything that's not just as easy to do as scum if that's his style. It's hard to read for me, because "+/- scum/town points" isn't really my style. It gets confusing when he's like "-town points" to his top town reads and stuff.

Anyway. For now I'll just observe that I don't get how Bob was his top town read at a point. And that I think he's dancing around LC a bit. Possibly teamed.

My top town is not yet lock town. I was giving notes a "-town" to indicate something that looked fishy, regardless of who says it. You might also notice that I give my top scum at least 1 "+town" points. So why didn't you have any issue with that?

I had the same issue with that, I just didn't list it. It's basically the same, just inverted. It was an overall issue, or maybe just unfamiliarity with this way of reading. I don't know you, so it isn't AI to me. I'm guessing you would do this as either alignment.

It's just very unfamiliar and unlike how I approach the game myself, is more my point.

Could you maybe state your overall thoughts on a few people - Like the general take on some players?

Especially Lon Con, Epig, Speedy and Bob, I'm interested in.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:58 pm

Logic wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:54 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:31 pm I like Logic giving content, but I don't see anything that's not just as easy to do as scum if that's his style. It's hard to read for me, because "+/- scum/town points" isn't really my style. It gets confusing when he's like "-town points" to his top town reads and stuff.

Anyway. For now I'll just observe that I don't get how Bob was his top town read at a point. And that I think he's dancing around LC a bit. Possibly teamed.

My top town is not yet lock town. I was giving notes a "-town" to indicate something that looked fishy, regardless of who says it. You might also notice that I give my top scum at least 1 "+town" points. So why didn't you have any issue with that?

I had the same issue with that, I just didn't list it. It's basically the same, just inverted. It was an overall issue, or maybe just unfamiliarity with this way of reading. I don't know you, so it isn't AI to me. I'm guessing you would do this as either alignment.

It's just very unfamiliar and unlike how I approach the game myself, is more my point.

Could you maybe state your overall thoughts on a few people - Like the general take on some players?

Especially Lon Con, Epig, Speedy and Bob, I'm interested in.

I know you didn't ask me specifically, but it feels important for me to share some takes on a couple people you listed here. I trust Logic and I trust Epi. I may not agree with them completely, but I trust their reads are genuine.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:34 pm Joining indiglo and Mac feels better as well, now that I see it.

The Owner wagon is bad.

So you trust Mac?

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:58 pm

Logic wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:54 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:31 pm I like Logic giving content, but I don't see anything that's not just as easy to do as scum if that's his style. It's hard to read for me, because "+/- scum/town points" isn't really my style. It gets confusing when he's like "-town points" to his top town reads and stuff.

Anyway. For now I'll just observe that I don't get how Bob was his top town read at a point. And that I think he's dancing around LC a bit. Possibly teamed.

My top town is not yet lock town. I was giving notes a "-town" to indicate something that looked fishy, regardless of who says it. You might also notice that I give my top scum at least 1 "+town" points. So why didn't you have any issue with that?

I had the same issue with that, I just didn't list it. It's basically the same, just inverted. It was an overall issue, or maybe just unfamiliarity with this way of reading. I don't know you, so it isn't AI to me. I'm guessing you would do this as either alignment.

It's just very unfamiliar and unlike how I approach the game myself, is more my point.

Could you maybe state your overall thoughts on a few people - Like the general take on some players?

Especially Lon Con, Epig, Speedy and Bob, I'm interested in.

Based on what I've seen, I've got Speedy as my top scum choice.
I think that Epi/Owner is never w/w, and I presently think Epi is more likely town than owner.
Long Con pings me, then flies under the radar; repeat. I need to explicit read his ISO to form an stronger opinion than his votecounts aren't great and "Epi's ISO tells me to look more here."
Bob was a townie for me for a bit, but some of the stuff I saw in backreading made me move him down to the nulls. I don't recall anything from him toDAY, so I may have to downgrade him, and rethink the speedy vote I share with him.
I haven't seen enough by Mac and Jinrou to place them anywhere but the nulls.
Kyle would normally fit into the null group based on his post content, but his vote and at the time for Soneji tells me to leave him in towns. His d2 vote on my top suspect speedy tells me to trust my gut on both of them.
Indiglo I've got as a likely town. I like her votes and where she's applying pressure otherwise.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:59 am I suspect Owner for things I've previously stated. A good place for a vote.

Day 2:

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:25 pm

indiglo wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:09 pm @speedchuck you have played a lot with Owner? If yes, have you seen anything hinky out of her so far?

Owner is usually a big question mark for me, and she still is. Her hunting style is weird. She suspects people for the gifs they use, their avatar changes, and the jokes they make.

It always comes off as nonsense to people that haven't played with her, and often develops into a scumread.

That said, I don't know the difference between town and scum Owner, so I'm not defending her with this either. Just giving context.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:05 pm birdwithteeth11 - Who?
colonialcob - I think his push on me is genuine
Epignosis - town
Dyslexicon - I've been burned before, but town
indiglo - town
Kylemii - :3?
Long Con - town?
MacDougall - Push on Sloonei irked me something weird earlier. Calling it a 'policy lynch'. Felt really strong for what it was, in an off sort of way.
Neverwhere - Who?
Owner of a Lonely Heart - haven't seen anything alignment indicative
Rej - I feel like I should have a read here but don't
Sloonei - unsure if his approach to me is opportunistic or if I just look as bad as usual. Also replacement.
speedchuck - Just happy to be here

Kylemii
Neverwhere
BWT
Rej
Sloonei
Owner
Macdougall

This is my POE. I need it to be one smaller.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:20 pm Ooh I suspect Owner now.

She didn't mention Soneji at any point during her 17 posts before the lynch ended.

She DID quote, indirectly reference, and/or mention:
BWT
Epi
cbob
speedchuck
Rej
Dizzy
Neverwhere
Spacedaisy
Kylemii
Long Con

Now granted, few of these posts were focused on lynch leaders or on who has votes, but I feel like there's something conspicuous about this here.

You know who also didn't mention Soneji before the lynch ended? Here's a list:

birdwithteeth11
Epignosis
Long Con
MacDougall
Neverwhere

So in summary, the things you previously stated regarding Owner consist of two posts in which you confess to not having a strong opinion on Owner and one post in which you picked Owner out of a hat for not mentioning or interacting with a guy who had a grand total of four posts.

Grabbing a snapshot of the poll for posterity:

speedchuck

answer for your crimes

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:21 pm answer for your crimes

Does that mean you are going to just posture, or will you be throwing a vote down with your accusation?

indiglo wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 1:05 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:34 pm Joining indiglo and Mac feels better as well, now that I see it.

The Owner wagon is bad.

So you trust Mac?

Trust is a strong word for Mac. I don't, but I don't scum read them either.

Can you elaborate on Logic? Have you played with them before?

Ok since I am just gonna echo some stuff

I think Owner is town and it's pretty natural that they are being awkwardly scummy. I haven't played with them (or maybe once), but I remember Owner had a pretty high lynch rate as town as well. Mix that in with Owner's own posting style (which can be seen as awkwardly wolfy as well)

Now the actual wolf

Could Epignosis fwiw

People I like: indiglo, dizzy, logic, Mac

People I don't like: speedchuck, LC, owner

People I have a suspicion are 3p: epignosis

Hey, I see I have a few votes.. I'm at a concert so I can't address any issues. I can claim if need be, it's not a good idea to lynch me.

Hmm LC looks better than I remember on an ISO. And I can see owner as just having a sus posting style (I don't necessarily suspect her pushes/questions.)

Why the LC votes? What's the case?

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:31 pm I like Logic giving content, but I don't see anything that's not just as easy to do as scum if that's his style. It's hard to read for me, because "+/- scum/town points" isn't really my style. It gets confusing when he's like "-town points" to his top town reads and stuff.

Anyway. For now I'll just observe that I don't get how Bob was his top town read at a point. And that I think he's dancing around LC a bit. Possibly teamed.

This is your first mention of LC since you said you town-read him. What changed?

indiglo wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:13 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:42 am Voting LC because I find his Owner vote bad

What's your take on Owner? Naughty or nice?

Slight town lean

[VOTE: Jinrou] aubergine

I believe LC

colonialbob wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:24 pm People I like: indiglo, dizzy, logic, Mac

People I don't like: speedchuck, LC, owner

People I have a suspicion are 3p: epignosis

I don't believe you tbh. Why do you like me? The only interactions we have had are me voting and sussing you, which you just ignored. This is the first time you've mentioned me. The rest of your reads aren't provocative enough for my tastes either.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:47 pm [VOTE: Jinrou] aubergine

I believe LC

I believe him too. Why Jinrou?

Logic wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:16 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:21 pm answer for your crimes

Does that mean you are going to just posture, or will you be throwing a vote down with your accusation?

it means I miss my friend [mention]speedchuck[/mention] and i want him to talk more so I can figure his shit out, but also that I like to be dramatic

indiglo wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:54 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:47 pm [VOTE: Jinrou] aubergine

I believe LC

I believe him too. Why Jinrou?

Asked for people to ISO then didn't do anything with it. Just playing like someone who swapped into a scum slot. Logic/Jinrou are a stark contrast.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:00 pm

indiglo wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:54 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:47 pm [VOTE: Jinrou] aubergine

I believe LC

I believe him too. Why Jinrou?

Asked for people to ISO then didn't do anything with it. Just playing like someone who swapped into a scum slot. Logic/Jinrou are a stark contrast.

Well I can explain that one

I was locked out of my bank account so today I had to get my money paid out via western union for the extended holiday weekend here otherwise I couldn't have gotten any food for the last few days.

Outside of that I got the diabetes pills for my grandfather
And I guess thats all NAI, but it's basically what I did today instead of doing the isos I planned to do

also softclaiming is the big gae and believing a soft claim is even worse

Jinrou wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:06 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:00 pm

indiglo wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:54 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:47 pm [VOTE: Jinrou] aubergine

I believe LC

I believe him too. Why Jinrou?

Asked for people to ISO then didn't do anything with it. Just playing like someone who swapped into a scum slot. Logic/Jinrou are a stark contrast.

Well I can explain that one

I was locked out of my bank account so today I had to get my money paid out via western union for the extended holiday weekend here otherwise I couldn't have gotten any food for the last few days.

Outside of that I got the diabetes pills for my grandfather
And I guess thats all NAI, but it's basically what I did today instead of doing the isos I planned to do

That sucks. Hope you are ok.

Show me a civ and I will move my vote.

Jinrou wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:07 pm also softclaiming is the big gae and believing a soft claim is even worse

I dunno I just believe him, for now.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:10 pm

Jinrou wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:07 pm also softclaiming is the big gae and believing a soft claim is even worse

I dunno I just believe him, for now.

First look into his iso and his reads said

"speedchuck and kylemil possible scum partners"

Why is that a bad look to me? That was the reason listed on his read list and even if he expressed his reasons in other posts, you would assume he would write as much for his scumreads as he does for middle of the pack ones outside of "prob scum"

And depending on the day I want to add that I find it likelier that Kylemil is town because of Sonejis wet noodle push which looks like fake distancing to me

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:43 pm Ok, you want my reads, here's a rainbow:

Epignosis - I don't suspect Epi
Dyslexicon - Day 1 vote, townish presence
indiglo - Day 1 vote, looks good in-thread
Neverwhere - Don't know
Owner of a Lonely Heart - lots of bob-focus, slight nods to other possible cases but no follow up
MacDougall - not sure yet
colonialbob - I liked his defense against Owner's accusations
birdwithteeth11 - Not much here, voted off-wagon
Sloonei - not looking to lynch right now
Rej - some bad vibes, Miller claim is sketchy because it didn't go anywhere
Kylemii - possible scummate
speedchuck possible scummate

I'll [VOTE: speedchuck] aubergine now.

which is to say, if he wants to make his voice heard in a reads list like that and actually thinks he is onto something he would add the reasons. Seems more like he worked towards a read that is fabricated compared to an actual scum read. He already listed reasaons in other posts (speedchuck being someone to save a teampartner) but instead he decided to opt for the laziest reasons exactly there where it matters.

The owner read which wasn't even important regarding his read position or his play was the most fleshed out one in this list

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:56 pm

Logic wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:16 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:21 pm answer for your crimes

Does that mean you are going to just posture, or will you be throwing a vote down with your accusation?

it means I miss my friend @speedchuck and i want him to talk more so I can figure his shit out, but also that I like to be dramatic

While I was pressuring you (albeit barely) this response just screams townie to me.

indiglo wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:42 pm I feel like Owner is playing in a completely different thread than me. I don't even understand where she is coming from at all.

I'm leaning that way for my vote. Not crazy about her Kyle vote, either.

consider this towny connfusion from indiglo regarding owner

going through indiglo iso, i didn't notice anything that stood out as particulary scummy

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:51 pm

colonialbob wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:24 pm People I like: indiglo, dizzy, logic, Mac

People I don't like: speedchuck, LC, owner

People I have a suspicion are 3p: epignosis

I don't believe you tbh. Why do you like me? The only interactions we have had are me voting and sussing you, which you just ignored. This is the first time you've mentioned me. The rest of your reads aren't provocative enough for my tastes either.

I believe you are town.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:44 pm There is no effort whatsoever in Owner's accusation of me to discern whether or not I'm a civilian. It's a fill-in-the-blank suspicion that invites others to answer without Owner ever stating a grievance. It's empty. It's evil.

And going through your iso your biggest effort was judging Indiglo based upon their relationship with people outside of the thread

And well this little mess where you use a bunch of empty statements to describe owner's vote on you as directly malevolent without asking for a reason first.

In here all I see is saying words that have big meanings, but with no substance behind them. Could you describe why scum!owner would do that? What is the motivation behind?

The Epi iso is filled with so much fluff it's a wonder he's even here

He used a lot of nai activites as excuse, but he did in fact post a lot and when he did it, it was 90% of the time worthless

So the argument that it's exam time falls flat when you find time to shitpost in thread

Now I just need to figure out how to vote

I don't think voting on the poll is enough? I placed it there on epi

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:00 pm

indiglo wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:54 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:47 pm [VOTE: Jinrou] aubergine

I believe LC

I believe him too. Why Jinrou?

Asked for people to ISO then didn't do anything with it. Just playing like someone who swapped into a scum slot. Logic/Jinrou are a stark contrast.

How do Logic and Jinrou usually play?

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:00 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:00 pm

indiglo wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:54 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:47 pm [VOTE: Jinrou] aubergine

I believe LC

I believe him too. Why Jinrou?

Asked for people to ISO then didn't do anything with it. Just playing like someone who swapped into a scum slot. Logic/Jinrou are a stark contrast.

How do Logic and Jinrou usually play?

I could provide links to my most recent games of each alignment, if you'd like.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:13 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:59 am I suspect Owner for things I've previously stated. A good place for a vote.

Day 2:

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:25 pm

indiglo wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:09 pm @speedchuck you have played a lot with Owner? If yes, have you seen anything hinky out of her so far?

Owner is usually a big question mark for me, and she still is. Her hunting style is weird. She suspects people for the gifs they use, their avatar changes, and the jokes they make.

It always comes off as nonsense to people that haven't played with her, and often develops into a scumread.

That said, I don't know the difference between town and scum Owner, so I'm not defending her with this either. Just giving context.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:05 pm birdwithteeth11 - Who?
colonialcob - I think his push on me is genuine
Epignosis - town
Dyslexicon - I've been burned before, but town
indiglo - town
Kylemii - :3?
Long Con - town?
MacDougall - Push on Sloonei irked me something weird earlier. Calling it a 'policy lynch'. Felt really strong for what it was, in an off sort of way.
Neverwhere - Who?
Owner of a Lonely Heart - haven't seen anything alignment indicative
Rej - I feel like I should have a read here but don't
Sloonei - unsure if his approach to me is opportunistic or if I just look as bad as usual. Also replacement.
speedchuck - Just happy to be here

Kylemii
Neverwhere
BWT
Rej
Sloonei
Owner
Macdougall

This is my POE. I need it to be one smaller.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:20 pm Ooh I suspect Owner now.

She didn't mention Soneji at any point during her 17 posts before the lynch ended.

She DID quote, indirectly reference, and/or mention:
BWT
Epi
cbob
speedchuck
Rej
Dizzy
Neverwhere
Spacedaisy
Kylemii
Long Con

Now granted, few of these posts were focused on lynch leaders or on who has votes, but I feel like there's something conspicuous about this here.

You know who also didn't mention Soneji before the lynch ended? Here's a list:

birdwithteeth11
Epignosis
Long Con
MacDougall
Neverwhere

So in summary, the things you previously stated regarding Owner consist of two posts in which you confess to not having a strong opinion on Owner and one post in which you picked Owner out of a hat for not mentioning or interacting with a guy who had a grand total of four posts.

When speedy mentioned my name as not mentioning Soneji before the lynch, I was under the impression I was the only one. I still don't like your filler/emphasis, but here, it does look like speedy was trying write me off to be with Soneji.

[VOTE: speedychuck] aubergine

Speedy did start to explain how I play, but then his words sort of back track off of that, with not knowing town vs. scum owner.

I don't remember him being this wish washy in Scrimmage, but idk. This was a good find.