The Syndicate

SportPonies wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 2:47 pm

miranda920 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 2:45 pm I’m town reading because despite the reads being on NAI posts it felt like a genuine effort!

Calling me a hippogriff because I playbowed and highposted is genuine effort?

To be fair, I don't think I've ever seen you post this much in a game.

I'm not complaining, I'm just used to you being roughly as far behind as I am.

i kind of think sloon is being lightly v

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:26 pm

Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:00 pm You’re right. I’m extremely dissatisfied.

I asked you for one thing. One simple thing. Give me your thoughts on the content itself.

Instead you gave another hand wavy answer that simply acknowledges the existence of the content and talk about how it was created on D1.

I wanted you to talk to me about the argument I’m making against Falcon. The specific point about what Falcon said, my rebuttal, and what you agree with or disagree with in that exchange, with specifics.

I still expect an answer here.

I think Falcon said a provocative thing about you and you were provoked. I think he made a mountain out of a molehill first, and you responded by making your out mountain out of your own molehill. Falcon's initial gripe, whether or not we believe it, was that you were not proactive enough in addressing your concerns about the early Miranda votes. Was it fair as an accusation at face value? Not really. But was it an acceptable play for early Day 1 of a crossover mafia game on Mafiathesyndicate.com? Absolutely.

You responded critically and defensively, because it was a bit of a bogus accusation. That is fair. But, in your response, I felt you took some liberties with his words, or at least presented a rather one-sided view of his position (It is not hard to see how falcon could interpret your initial concern as being simply the speed with which the votes occurred). This is reminiscent of how you have responded to me today. But, again, that is fine, because it is Day 1 of a mafia game, and we need to twist some words to get people talking.

Was I swayed by any of the arguments either of you made against one another? No. I was not. If I am to give a read, it's that both of you are town. Falcon, for playing the role of provocateur. You, because your defensive reaction turned into what looks to be a very firmly-held belief that you are onto something. But neither of those are strong reads, which is why I will again stress that I'm more interested in seeing how you respond to other things.

I do not believe there is anything meaningful to be gained by continuing this dialogue.

This isn’t an answer. What specifically did I say that you felt was an example of my “Twisting his words”?

idk, zenge/falcon/sloon feels a lot like v on v on v violence but i dont really know how to read the first 2

Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:31 pm This isn’t an answer. What specifically did I say that you felt was an example of my “Twisting his words”?

What is your read on me right now?

Animal Midwife wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:24 pm

mightyrunner7 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:22 pm

Animal Midwife wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:14 pm

mightyrunner7 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:10 pm Hello everyone, finally caught up from Day 1 opening, so I'll be making a series of posts to give my thoughts/impressions

The biggest issue so far seems to be the conflict between Falcon/Zenge/Sloonie/Seanzie

Here are my reads of it:
Falcon - Scum lean
Zenge - Village lean
Sloonie - Village lean
Seanzie - Confused scum lean. Falcon was sus, but we cannot eliminate Falcon, so you vote for Zenge? Is your opinion toward Falcon based in past history (Falcon is a strong player, we should keep him around) or something else?

Generally, I find Zenge to have had the more convincing argument than Falcon (although this may admittedly be attributed to SDN bias), while Sloonie's commentary felt villagey to me

Could you remind me why Zenge is the only SDNer you're reading when you've only played one game with him where you were both village?

Zenge was the only SDNer who meaningfully contributed to this particular issue that I was analyzing, I'm still working on my catch-up

You didn't think anything I said was meaningful?

The only contribution you offered to the Falcon/Zenge drama was that you had no opinion on Falcon. Is that meaningful?

mightyrunner7 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:32 pm

Animal Midwife wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:24 pm

mightyrunner7 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:22 pm

Animal Midwife wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:14 pm

mightyrunner7 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:10 pm Hello everyone, finally caught up from Day 1 opening, so I'll be making a series of posts to give my thoughts/impressions

The biggest issue so far seems to be the conflict between Falcon/Zenge/Sloonie/Seanzie

Here are my reads of it:
Falcon - Scum lean
Zenge - Village lean
Sloonie - Village lean
Seanzie - Confused scum lean. Falcon was sus, but we cannot eliminate Falcon, so you vote for Zenge? Is your opinion toward Falcon based in past history (Falcon is a strong player, we should keep him around) or something else?

Generally, I find Zenge to have had the more convincing argument than Falcon (although this may admittedly be attributed to SDN bias), while Sloonie's commentary felt villagey to me

Could you remind me why Zenge is the only SDNer you're reading when you've only played one game with him where you were both village?

Zenge was the only SDNer who meaningfully contributed to this particular issue that I was analyzing, I'm still working on my catch-up

You didn't think anything I said was meaningful?

The only contribution you offered to the Falcon/Zenge drama was that you had no opinion on Falcon. Is that meaningful?

Oh wait. You just focusing on two people in isolation of the rest of the roster. No, that's not meaningful because it's too narrow. Lots of things have been discussed together even with just involving these four player outside of Zenge v Falcon. I'd like to hear about that as well since you're caught up.

Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 6:05 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 5:55 pm

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 5:52 pm

S~V~S wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 5:49 pm

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 5:24 pm Anyway, I find the split on whether falcon is playing out of character or not to be an interesting one. sloonei says no, neon says yes. Other Syndicats, what's your opinion?

For fear of raising the wrath of Zenge, I thought Falcon had some points.

I generally have a hard time reading Falcon; coming in here seeing him engage, I thought maybe I was getting a grip on his game. I thought he looked very civvie. And Sloonei i think was not so much defending Falcon as he was explaining someones Meta. I think he was trying to be helpful. I don't know that I think Sloonei would come in Day 1 to defend a teammate in that way, when he could easily be called out by people with more Falcon experience.

BUT Neon does read Falcon much better than I, so I need to see what she says.

I think Sloonei and Falcon are unlikely to be packmates anyhow but if Neon has a history of reading Falcon accurately than hmm

Why are you TR Neon? Are you sheeping other player's reads on her slot?

How are you reading Neon?

Obv town. Towniest town ever.

Animal Midwife wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:35 pm

mightyrunner7 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:32 pm

Animal Midwife wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:24 pm

mightyrunner7 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:22 pm

Animal Midwife wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:14 pm

mightyrunner7 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:10 pm Hello everyone, finally caught up from Day 1 opening, so I'll be making a series of posts to give my thoughts/impressions

The biggest issue so far seems to be the conflict between Falcon/Zenge/Sloonie/Seanzie

Here are my reads of it:
Falcon - Scum lean
Zenge - Village lean
Sloonie - Village lean
Seanzie - Confused scum lean. Falcon was sus, but we cannot eliminate Falcon, so you vote for Zenge? Is your opinion toward Falcon based in past history (Falcon is a strong player, we should keep him around) or something else?

Generally, I find Zenge to have had the more convincing argument than Falcon (although this may admittedly be attributed to SDN bias), while Sloonie's commentary felt villagey to me

Could you remind me why Zenge is the only SDNer you're reading when you've only played one game with him where you were both village?

Zenge was the only SDNer who meaningfully contributed to this particular issue that I was analyzing, I'm still working on my catch-up

You didn't think anything I said was meaningful?

The only contribution you offered to the Falcon/Zenge drama was that you had no opinion on Falcon. Is that meaningful?

Oh wait. You just focusing on two people in isolation of the rest of the roster. No, that's not meaningful because it's too narrow. Lots of things have been discussed together even with just involving these four player outside of Zenge v Falcon. I'd like to hear about that as well since you're caught up.

100% agree that this analysis is incomplete, I was just starting with the top issue. I'm working on composing my other impressions as well

AM is so towny it hurts

AM this is the kind of towny i need you to be on MU so people don't wonder wtf Im talking about when i call you a villager

dyachei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:32 pm idk, zenge/falcon/sloon feels a lot like v on v on v violence but i dont really know how to read the first 2

Let me lay out my case for you.

Falcon made a very bad push on me.

I said I was thinking about how a wolf would approach the game and looking for people who were doing that.

Falcon claimed that this “wasn’t a town perspective”.

I asked him to elaborate and he refused and changed the subject.

I asked him again and he obfuscated with something unrelated.

This is not how a villager looking to solve the game behaves.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 6:07 pm

Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 6:05 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 5:55 pm

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 5:52 pm

S~V~S wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 5:49 pm

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 5:24 pm Anyway, I find the split on whether falcon is playing out of character or not to be an interesting one. sloonei says no, neon says yes. Other Syndicats, what's your opinion?

For fear of raising the wrath of Zenge, I thought Falcon had some points.

I generally have a hard time reading Falcon; coming in here seeing him engage, I thought maybe I was getting a grip on his game. I thought he looked very civvie. And Sloonei i think was not so much defending Falcon as he was explaining someones Meta. I think he was trying to be helpful. I don't know that I think Sloonei would come in Day 1 to defend a teammate in that way, when he could easily be called out by people with more Falcon experience.

BUT Neon does read Falcon much better than I, so I need to see what she says.

I think Sloonei and Falcon are unlikely to be packmates anyhow but if Neon has a history of reading Falcon accurately than hmm

Why are you TR Neon? Are you sheeping other player's reads on her slot?

How are you reading Neon?

There's a feisty-ness to her tone in certain posts that I've come to associate w/ towny Neon

Is it possible for you to put more depth into this read?

If not that's okay I struggle with articulating thoughts but I'm trying to understand exactly what you mean

Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:39 pm

dyachei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:32 pm idk, zenge/falcon/sloon feels a lot like v on v on v violence but i dont really know how to read the first 2

Let me lay out my case for you.

Falcon made a very bad push on me.

I said I was thinking about how a wolf would approach the game and looking for people who were doing that.

Falcon claimed that this “wasn’t a town perspective”.

I asked him to elaborate and he refused and changed the subject.

I asked him again and he obfuscated with something unrelated.

This is not how a villager looking to solve the game behaves.

falcon is someone I struggle with because I almost always want to call him a wolf, but he's usually not a wolf

he does shit that I would consider wolfy in a vacuum

dyachei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:40 pm

Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:39 pm

dyachei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:32 pm idk, zenge/falcon/sloon feels a lot like v on v on v violence but i dont really know how to read the first 2

Let me lay out my case for you.

Falcon made a very bad push on me.

I said I was thinking about how a wolf would approach the game and looking for people who were doing that.

Falcon claimed that this “wasn’t a town perspective”.

I asked him to elaborate and he refused and changed the subject.

I asked him again and he obfuscated with something unrelated.

This is not how a villager looking to solve the game behaves.

falcon is someone I struggle with because I almost always want to call him a wolf, but he's usually not a wolf

he does shit that I would consider wolfy in a vacuum

I feel like if you took a wolf out of a vacuum they’d still be a wolf though. That’s like…physics.

But also hear me out on this:

The Miranda wagon is bad. I’ve talked about why. Instead of asking me why I thought the Miranda wagon is bad, or trying to engage and understand people perspectives, he wolf read me and tried to build a wagon on me for terrible reasoning.

He also tried to build a case on PSV, on the grounds that he was asking how Neon was reading his slot.

All of these things are Wolfy in a vacuum. How many Wolfy vacuums does it take before this is a pattern?

Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:45 pm

dyachei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:40 pm

Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:39 pm

dyachei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:32 pm idk, zenge/falcon/sloon feels a lot like v on v on v violence but i dont really know how to read the first 2

Let me lay out my case for you.

Falcon made a very bad push on me.

I said I was thinking about how a wolf would approach the game and looking for people who were doing that.

Falcon claimed that this “wasn’t a town perspective”.

I asked him to elaborate and he refused and changed the subject.

I asked him again and he obfuscated with something unrelated.

This is not how a villager looking to solve the game behaves.

falcon is someone I struggle with because I almost always want to call him a wolf, but he's usually not a wolf

he does shit that I would consider wolfy in a vacuum

I feel like if you took a wolf out of a vacuum they’d still be a wolf though. That’s like…physics.

But also hear me out on this:

The Miranda wagon is bad. I’ve talked about why. Instead of asking me why I thought the Miranda wagon is bad, or trying to engage and understand people perspectives, he wolf read me and tried to build a wagon on me for terrible reasoning.

He also tried to build a case on PSV, on the grounds that he was asking how Neon was reading his slot.

All of these things are Wolfy in a vacuum. How many Wolfy vacuums does it take before this is a pattern?

hey im just telling you where im coming from

I always want to wolf read him and it's always been a crapshoot

he's a wolfy villager imo so i guess I'm more concerned about outcomes from him

Regarding Miranda in general, I appreciate PSV's terminology of noob vs wolf. AM very legitimately questioned Miranda's town lean on Scottie for being based on faulty reasoning. I personally would offer that this was more noob than sus (I personally had the same gut reaction before I calmed down and realized entertaining posts are still NAI). Honestly, the only aspect of Miranda's play so far that caught my eye has been how calmly she has handled the pressure. I think this could be attributed to wolfiness, gaining experience, or generally being too busy to fight back. She is worth watching, but I would not make her a yeet priority for today, unless I found no better targets than trusting Sporty's tone read

dyachei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:39 pm AM is so towny it hurts

AM this is the kind of towny i need you to be on MU so people don't wonder wtf Im talking about when i call you a villager

I genuinely don't know what the difference is.

Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:24 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:22 pm

mightyrunner7 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:10 pm Hello everyone, finally caught up from Day 1 opening, so I'll be making a series of posts to give my thoughts/impressions

The biggest issue so far seems to be the conflict between Falcon/Zenge/Sloonie/Seanzie

Here are my reads of it:
Falcon - Scum lean
Zenge - Village lean
Sloonie - Village lean
Seanzie - Confused scum lean. Falcon was sus, but we cannot eliminate Falcon, so you vote for Zenge? Is your opinion toward Falcon based in past history (Falcon is a strong player, we should keep him around) or something else?

Generally, I find Zenge to have had the more convincing argument than Falcon (although this may admittedly be attributed to SDN bias), while Sloonie's commentary felt villagey to me

See, this is what a townie looks like when I sus Falcon but take them off the table.

I'll answer your question re:this, but not until I hear from Zenge.

I answered you in 922? Unless you asked something else I didn’t see?

I apparently didn't see that post. Are you usually so laissez faire in games?

AM is certainly playing with her usual intensity. I'm not willing to give a town read to her for it quite yet (frankly, this is what I expect from her in any game), but I will argue with anyone who still finds this wolfy behavior

Animal Midwife wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:51 pm

dyachei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:39 pm AM is so towny it hurts

AM this is the kind of towny i need you to be on MU so people don't wonder wtf Im talking about when i call you a villager

I genuinely don't know what the difference is.

you dont know the difference between your posting here and your nebulous one liners on MU

I'm skeptical

dyachei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:31 pm i kind of think sloon is being lightly v

Why do your reads have so many adjectives?

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:54 pm

dyachei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:31 pm i kind of think sloon is being lightly v

Why do your reads have so many adjectives?

they always do and you always take issue with it

it's how i express myself

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:54 pm

dyachei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:31 pm i kind of think sloon is being lightly v

Why do your reads have so many adjectives?

lightly is an adverb. vote seanzie vote aubergine

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:52 pm

Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:24 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:22 pm

mightyrunner7 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:10 pm Hello everyone, finally caught up from Day 1 opening, so I'll be making a series of posts to give my thoughts/impressions

The biggest issue so far seems to be the conflict between Falcon/Zenge/Sloonie/Seanzie

Here are my reads of it:
Falcon - Scum lean
Zenge - Village lean
Sloonie - Village lean
Seanzie - Confused scum lean. Falcon was sus, but we cannot eliminate Falcon, so you vote for Zenge? Is your opinion toward Falcon based in past history (Falcon is a strong player, we should keep him around) or something else?

Generally, I find Zenge to have had the more convincing argument than Falcon (although this may admittedly be attributed to SDN bias), while Sloonie's commentary felt villagey to me

See, this is what a townie looks like when I sus Falcon but take them off the table.

I'll answer your question re:this, but not until I hear from Zenge.

I answered you in 922? Unless you asked something else I didn’t see?

I apparently didn't see that post. Are you usually so laissez faire in games?

I don’t feel like I’m very laissez faire here. This is the most active and engaged I’ve been on a thread in a while.

So I guess yes. I’m not just usually laissez faire, I’m usually SO laissez faire that what you’re seeing as “laissez faire” here is actually a very high bar for me.

Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:45 pm

dyachei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:40 pm

Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:39 pm

dyachei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:32 pm idk, zenge/falcon/sloon feels a lot like v on v on v violence but i dont really know how to read the first 2

Let me lay out my case for you.

Falcon made a very bad push on me.

I said I was thinking about how a wolf would approach the game and looking for people who were doing that.

Falcon claimed that this “wasn’t a town perspective”.

I asked him to elaborate and he refused and changed the subject.

I asked him again and he obfuscated with something unrelated.

This is not how a villager looking to solve the game behaves.

falcon is someone I struggle with because I almost always want to call him a wolf, but he's usually not a wolf

he does shit that I would consider wolfy in a vacuum

I feel like if you took a wolf out of a vacuum they’d still be a wolf though. That’s like…physics.

But also hear me out on this:

The Miranda wagon is bad. I’ve talked about why. Instead of asking me why I thought the Miranda wagon is bad, or trying to engage and understand people perspectives, he wolf read me and tried to build a wagon on me for terrible reasoning.

He also tried to build a case on PSV, on the grounds that he was asking how Neon was reading his slot.

All of these things are Wolfy in a vacuum. How many Wolfy vacuums does it take before this is a pattern?

I think physics actually dictates that if the wolf has been in the vacuum for any extended period of time, pulling it out yields a dead wolf.

dyachei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:55 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:54 pm

dyachei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:31 pm i kind of think sloon is being lightly v

Why do your reads have so many adjectives?

they always do and you always take issue with it

it's how i express myself

I could be wrong, but I don't think I've taken issue with this specific thing in the past. What game?

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 5:21 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 5:19 pm

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 5:06 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 5:00 pm Is Miranda a relative noob to werewolf?

I think it is far easier and safer to call someone town when playing as mafia

Yes, she is a relative noob. This is her fifth (I believe?) game.
I'm more getting at, I would've expected her to be coached not to say something like that. I'm reading her as nooby rather than outright wolfy.

Coached? Lol

So you’re saying townreading me is a Lev 1 wolf strategy? I disagree. I think it’s rather benign and something town do plenty.

What would you coach her?

I mean the other scum in scumchat would probably have said hey don't do that.

That's assuming she is running every post past her cowolves. I'm not sure I've ever been in a game where players do that. Sure, people will post and edit a full reads list, but usually not a random town read on D1.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:58 pm

dyachei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:55 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:54 pm

dyachei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:31 pm i kind of think sloon is being lightly v

Why do your reads have so many adjectives?

they always do and you always take issue with it

it's how i express myself

I could be wrong, but I don't think I've taken issue with this specific thing in the past. What game?

i never remember specific game names. but i remember having a similar convo with you before

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:56 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:54 pm

dyachei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:31 pm i kind of think sloon is being lightly v

Why do your reads have so many adjectives?

lightly is an adverb. vote seanzie vote aubergine

*forfeits because iz caught via grammar*

Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:56 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:52 pm

Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:24 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:22 pm

mightyrunner7 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:10 pm Hello everyone, finally caught up from Day 1 opening, so I'll be making a series of posts to give my thoughts/impressions

The biggest issue so far seems to be the conflict between Falcon/Zenge/Sloonie/Seanzie

Here are my reads of it:
Falcon - Scum lean
Zenge - Village lean
Sloonie - Village lean
Seanzie - Confused scum lean. Falcon was sus, but we cannot eliminate Falcon, so you vote for Zenge? Is your opinion toward Falcon based in past history (Falcon is a strong player, we should keep him around) or something else?

Generally, I find Zenge to have had the more convincing argument than Falcon (although this may admittedly be attributed to SDN bias), while Sloonie's commentary felt villagey to me

See, this is what a townie looks like when I sus Falcon but take them off the table.

I'll answer your question re:this, but not until I hear from Zenge.

I answered you in 922? Unless you asked something else I didn’t see?

I apparently didn't see that post. Are you usually so laissez faire in games?

I don’t feel like I’m very laissez faire here. This is the most active and engaged I’ve been on a thread in a while.

So I guess yes. I’m not just usually laissez faire, I’m usually SO laissez faire that what you’re seeing as “laissez faire” here is actually a very high bar for me.

When I talk about you being laissez faire, I'm referring to the fact that you seem fine not following up on things that most people would follow up on. The fact that you're active an engaged makes this worse since... why wouldn't you engage with these things?

dyachei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:59 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:58 pm

dyachei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:55 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:54 pm

dyachei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:31 pm i kind of think sloon is being lightly v

Why do your reads have so many adjectives?

they always do and you always take issue with it

it's how i express myself

I could be wrong, but I don't think I've taken issue with this specific thing in the past. What game?

i never remember specific game names. but i remember having a similar convo with you before

I am willing to settle on me silently eyeing you rather than pressing you, but for now I do not feel placated since I do not recall this (don't deny it, but hard to verify, and without verification, there is no placation).

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:02 pm

dyachei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:59 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:58 pm

dyachei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:55 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:54 pm

dyachei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:31 pm i kind of think sloon is being lightly v

Why do your reads have so many adjectives?

they always do and you always take issue with it

it's how i express myself

I could be wrong, but I don't think I've taken issue with this specific thing in the past. What game?

i never remember specific game names. but i remember having a similar convo with you before

I am willing to settle on me silently eyeing you rather than pressing you, but for now I do not feel placated since I do not recall this (don't deny it, but hard to verify, and without verification, there is no placation).

it would have been a minimum of a year ago i think because the last game i remember playing on TS was during Amy's birth

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:00 pm

Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:56 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:52 pm

Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:24 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:22 pm

mightyrunner7 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:10 pm Hello everyone, finally caught up from Day 1 opening, so I'll be making a series of posts to give my thoughts/impressions

The biggest issue so far seems to be the conflict between Falcon/Zenge/Sloonie/Seanzie

Here are my reads of it:
Falcon - Scum lean
Zenge - Village lean
Sloonie - Village lean
Seanzie - Confused scum lean. Falcon was sus, but we cannot eliminate Falcon, so you vote for Zenge? Is your opinion toward Falcon based in past history (Falcon is a strong player, we should keep him around) or something else?

Generally, I find Zenge to have had the more convincing argument than Falcon (although this may admittedly be attributed to SDN bias), while Sloonie's commentary felt villagey to me

See, this is what a townie looks like when I sus Falcon but take them off the table.

I'll answer your question re:this, but not until I hear from Zenge.

I answered you in 922? Unless you asked something else I didn’t see?

I apparently didn't see that post. Are you usually so laissez faire in games?

I don’t feel like I’m very laissez faire here. This is the most active and engaged I’ve been on a thread in a while.

So I guess yes. I’m not just usually laissez faire, I’m usually SO laissez faire that what you’re seeing as “laissez faire” here is actually a very high bar for me.

When I talk about you being laissez faire, I'm referring to the fact that you seem fine not following up on things that most people would follow up on. The fact that you're active an engaged makes this worse since... why wouldn't you engage with these things?

What specifically are you asking about my not following up on?

If you’re asking about my not following up with the weird comment you made. I did comment on it. “Not with that attitude”. And then a few hours later you voted me for not “following up”.

I guess I’m confused. Can you specify how much time exactly you think would have been appropriate for me to wait before following up a second time?

mightyrunner7 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:10 pm Hello everyone, finally caught up from Day 1 opening, so I'll be making a series of posts to give my thoughts/impressions

The biggest issue so far seems to be the conflict between Falcon/Zenge/Sloonie/Seanzie

Here are my reads of it:
Falcon - Scum lean
Zenge - Village lean
Sloonie - Village lean
Seanzie - Confused scum lean. Falcon was sus, but we cannot eliminate Falcon, so you vote for Zenge? Is your opinion toward Falcon based in past history (Falcon is a strong player, we should keep him around) or something else?

Generally, I find Zenge to have had the more convincing argument than Falcon (although this may admittedly be attributed to SDN bias), while Sloonie's commentary felt villagey to me

To address this now, I will use the SUPER NAI method of just quoting a post from another game where I explain this (I've had to explain this a lot):


NOTE: The following spoilered post is NOT from this game. It is from another game.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:05 pm

mightyrunner7 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:10 pm Hello everyone, finally caught up from Day 1 opening, so I'll be making a series of posts to give my thoughts/impressions

The biggest issue so far seems to be the conflict between Falcon/Zenge/Sloonie/Seanzie

Here are my reads of it:
Falcon - Scum lean
Zenge - Village lean
Sloonie - Village lean
Seanzie - Confused scum lean. Falcon was sus, but we cannot eliminate Falcon, so you vote for Zenge? Is your opinion toward Falcon based in past history (Falcon is a strong player, we should keep him around) or something else?

Generally, I find Zenge to have had the more convincing argument than Falcon (although this may admittedly be attributed to SDN bias), while Sloonie's commentary felt villagey to me

To address this now, I will use the SUPER NAI method of just quoting a post from another game where I explain this (I've had to explain this a lot):


NOTE: The following spoilered post is NOT from this game. It is from another game.

Spoiler: show

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 4:04 pm

Lumi wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:45 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:15 pm No to Falcon. No.

Not yet at least.

Overruled

Give a good reason if you want people to listen.

Falcon is an easy read as time goes on and are an easy misyeet for wolves early. If Falcon is a wolf, taking them out will not severely hinder the wolves (no offence to Falcon, but he kinda hates wolfing, and while he isn't a negative to the wolf-team, he isn't exactly the choice to go deep), and Falcon's best strength as a wolf is he is good at not leaving spew/leaving misleading spew, so flipping him early gives very little benefit even if he is wolf, but leaving him alive will never cause a loss because he is wolf (if we wouldn't have lost anyways), and we will know if he is town or not because elo.

before* not because.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:32 pm

Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:31 pm This isn’t an answer. What specifically did I say that you felt was an example of my “Twisting his words”?

What is your read on me right now?

Not great. Especially since you refused to answer this question and just asked another question, which was about how I’m reading you.

Villager’s don’t generally care as much about how others are reading them and are usually more willing to answer extremely basic and simple questions.

Mayo the Mayo wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:58 pm

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 5:21 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 5:19 pm

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 5:06 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 5:00 pm Is Miranda a relative noob to werewolf?

I think it is far easier and safer to call someone town when playing as mafia

Yes, she is a relative noob. This is her fifth (I believe?) game.
I'm more getting at, I would've expected her to be coached not to say something like that. I'm reading her as nooby rather than outright wolfy.

Coached? Lol

So you’re saying townreading me is a Lev 1 wolf strategy? I disagree. I think it’s rather benign and something town do plenty.

What would you coach her?

I mean the other scum in scumchat would probably have said hey don't do that.

That's assuming she is running every post past her cowolves. I'm not sure I've ever been in a game where players do that. Sure, people will post and edit a full reads list, but usually not a random town read on D1.

I agree with Mayo here. PSV, I've very recently been a noob wolf in a couple games, and the amount of couching I received boiled down to "that's was a bad post, why did you say that!?" My point is having access to wolfy mentors does not prevent questionable posts

Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:07 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:32 pm

Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:31 pm This isn’t an answer. What specifically did I say that you felt was an example of my “Twisting his words”?

What is your read on me right now?

Not great. Especially since you refused to answer this question and just asked another question, which was about how I’m reading you.

Villager’s don’t generally care as much about how others are reading them and are usually more willing to answer extremely basic and simple questions.

The reason I ask is because I fail to see the benefit of continuing this dialogue unless you are actively suspicious of me.

I feel as though I have answered you in sufficient detail. I have gone into more detail than I thought necessary. I even addressed your most recent question in the post you were responding to: You painted Falcon as suspicious for not asking you why you disliked the Miranda wagon, when it was not unreasonable to assume that Falcon had assumed your objection was that the votes came too quickly.

You have asked me to respond to a bunch of things, but I am failing to see what value is being gained right now. It feels as though you are hounding me simply as a reflex. So how are you reading me, and why are my answers to your questions so important?

@Animal Midwife

With 24 players I’m assuming 5 scum or so?

You think that’s probably accurate?

Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:18 pm @Animal Midwife

With 24 players I’m assuming 5 scum or so?

You think that’s probably accurate?

At least 5. I don't know where 3p is factored in

Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:39 pm

dyachei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:32 pm idk, zenge/falcon/sloon feels a lot like v on v on v violence but i dont really know how to read the first 2

Let me lay out my case for you.

Falcon made a very bad push on me.

I said I was thinking about how a wolf would approach the game and looking for people who were doing that.

Falcon claimed that this “wasn’t a town perspective”.

I asked him to elaborate and he refused and changed the subject.

I asked him again and he obfuscated with something unrelated.

This is not how a villager looking to solve the game behaves.

Go back to the post dude.








Thinking about how a wolf might approach the game is fine.







Not following up and questioning players who are doing the wolfy things you suspect? That is not a towny mindset.





And it isn't.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:17 pm

Spoiler: show

Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:07 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:32 pm

Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:31 pm This isn’t an answer. What specifically did I say that you felt was an example of my “Twisting his words”?

What is your read on me right now?

Not great. Especially since you refused to answer this question and just asked another question, which was about how I’m reading you.

Villager’s don’t generally care as much about how others are reading them and are usually more willing to answer extremely basic and simple questions.

The reason I ask is because I fail to see the benefit of continuing this dialogue unless you are actively suspicious of me.

I feel as though I have answered you in sufficient detail. I have gone into more detail than I thought necessary. I even addressed your most recent question in the post you were responding to: You painted Falcon as suspicious for not asking you why you disliked the Miranda wagon, when it was not unreasonable to assume that Falcon had assumed your objection was that the votes came too quickly.

You have asked me to respond to a bunch of things, but I am failing to see what value is being gained right now. It feels as though you are hounding me simply as a reflex. So how are you reading me, and why are my answers to your questions so important?

I’m not hounding you as a reflex I’m extremely suspicious of you because your defense of Falcon has been extremely scummy.

Your failure to answer my questions has been extremely scummy. Anyone who actually reads the answers you gave to the questions I’ve asked would agree that like a politician, you’ve answered by saying a lot of words and never actually answering my questions.

So let’s do this. I’m giving you one more opportunity to answer my questions honestly. I’m going to make them as simple as possible.

1. I said “This is what I expect wolves to do. Im looking for people who are doing this.” -This is a fact. Do you agree or disagree with that. If you disagree why specifically?

2. Falcon highlighted my quote discussed in point #1 and said that it was a Wolfy mindset. -This is a fact. Do you agree or disagree with that. If you disagree why specifically?

3. I asked Falcon why it was he was claiming that was a “Wolfy mindset”. -This is a fact. Do you agree or disagree with that. If you disagree why specifically?

4. Falcon followed that by saying he was done discussing with me, instead of explaining himself. -This is a fact. Do you agree or disagree with that. If you disagree why specifically?

5. I pressed Falcon again and asked him AGAIN to answer the question. -This is a fact. Do you agree or disagree with that. If you disagree why specifically?

6. Falcon answered by making an unrelated complaint about my not asking people voting for Miranda why they were voting for Miranda. -This is a fact. Do you agree or disagree with that. If you disagree why specifically?

I’d like you to answer these point by point. I doubt you will. I expect you’ll continue to obfuscate and give hand wavy answers.

Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:00 pm @potentialsheltervet id like your opinion on Sloonei’s question to Miranda here.

I don't really think much of it, to be frank. It didn't strike me either way.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:55 pm @potentialsheltervet What's your read on Neon right now?

Light village.

Mayo the Mayo wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:58 pm That's assuming she is running every post past her cowolves. I'm not sure I've ever been in a game where players do that. Sure, people will post and edit a full reads list, but usually not a random town read on D1.

True.

Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:29 pm Your failure to answer my questions has been extremely scummy. Anyone who actually reads the answers you gave to the questions I’ve asked would agree that like a politician, you’ve answered by saying a lot of words and never actually answering my questions.

Haha I'm stealing this for the next time I go toe to toe with scum!JJJ

@falcon45ca Why do you have a problem with me TRing Neon?

I’m liking mightyrunner’s Re-entrance

I’m in the camp now after talking to myself in the bathroom that Dennis is making words and is too reticent. A lot of town reads and since his ALL-CAPS ELEPHANT TRAMPLING THROUGH A VILLAGE on D0, it’s felt much more…careful. Like the goldfish in a large lake. That’s the best I can explain it.

And I’m on the fence with pyxxy’s handling of me. That pyxxy went straight to 3p instead of sussing me outright, AND with Dennis coming straight to pyxxy’s rescue, I’m currently suspecting both of them

Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:29 pm I’d like you to answer these point by point. I doubt you will. I expect you’ll continue to obfuscate and give hand wavy answers.

I am indeed not going to answer. This is not a productive discussion. I'll engage with you on other subjects as they come up. But I have said everything I have to say about this particular subject.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:28 pm

Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:39 pm

dyachei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:32 pm idk, zenge/falcon/sloon feels a lot like v on v on v violence but i dont really know how to read the first 2

Let me lay out my case for you.

Falcon made a very bad push on me.

I said I was thinking about how a wolf would approach the game and looking for people who were doing that.

Falcon claimed that this “wasn’t a town perspective”.

I asked him to elaborate and he refused and changed the subject.

I asked him again and he obfuscated with something unrelated.

This is not how a villager looking to solve the game behaves.

Go back to the post dude.








Thinking about how a wolf might approach the game is fine.







Not following up and questioning players who are doing the wolfy things you suspect? That is not a towny mindset.





And it isn't.

Once again you’re going back to this nonsense reason to wolf read me.

Your argument is that I said I found the Miranda wagon suspicious. Your entire case hinged on demanding that I had to ask every single voter on the Miranda wagon why, and that it was the only way for a villager to play the game.

But my issue is not just with the post. It’s with your follow up. You refused to answer the question and tried to change the subject. When I asked again you obfuscated by muddling two separate arguments together to give legitimacy to your scummy push.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:34 pm

Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:29 pm I’d like you to answer these point by point. I doubt you will. I expect you’ll continue to obfuscate and give hand wavy answers.

I am indeed not going to answer. This is not a productive discussion. I'll engage with you on other subjects as they come up. But I have said everything I have to say about this particular subject.

@potentialsheltervet if Falcon flips scum, there’s no way this isn’t also scum, right? Like this has been too much Falcon defense to not be W/W, right?

Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:38 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:34 pm

Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:29 pm I’d like you to answer these point by point. I doubt you will. I expect you’ll continue to obfuscate and give hand wavy answers.

I am indeed not going to answer. This is not a productive discussion. I'll engage with you on other subjects as they come up. But I have said everything I have to say about this particular subject.

@potentialsheltervet if Falcon flips scum, there’s no way this isn’t also scum, right? Like this has been too much Falcon defense to not be W/W, right?

@Animal Midwife would you agree with this?