The Syndicate

Errrr... I said "likewise" there, but that's clearly not what I meant. Substitute "conversely".

Is anyone around to chat right now? I'll check back in off and on the next few hours as well.

Some of us are busy doing things.

Epignosis wrote:Some of us are busy doing things.

Yeah, with your mom.

I am here friend!

I did go back and read SVS during BoB mafia to gain some perspective, and this jumped out at me.

I say what i think always when a civ, I don't care how it makes me look.

Hello, Made! Who should we lynch and why?

DH, that's an interesting find. Do you believe that contradicts her behavior here? Is her alignment known in BoB?

DharmaHelper wrote:I did go back and read SVS during BoB mafia to gain some perspective, and this jumped out at me.

I say what i think always when a civ, I don't care how it makes me look.

I have been avoiding this, but...

did you ALSO read the part where I went batshit insane on Epignosis? And totally lost my cool and made a complete fool of myslef? Did you read that part?

Did it occur to you that I might be trying to learn to deal with what has been an ongoing problem for me?

You pulled that one quote out of all that embarrassing awfulness. I really don't know what to say. I am out for tonight.

I'm not sure about Mac's Mom he is lower on my mafia list since I doubt two mafia would vote on the same person so soon, It doesn't seem like your mafia right know either.
Idk I just really find Sabers posts odd and think he is mafia it is a gut read. Plus he made it sound like he had a huge reveal but never said anything.

Since Tiny has said last game she was a civilian and she didn't this time I found that odd.

For Timmer the only person he really suspected and voted on was Saberfish.
I still think Saberfish is mafia, however if a better candidate appears I would lynch them.
Though I find Ika vote strange he didn't post and then he lynched cookie who already has many votes on her, Ike also didn't vote day 1.
Ike who would you like to lynch and why?

MovingPictures07 wrote:Hello, Made! Who should we lynch and why?

DH, that's an interesting find. Do you believe that contradicts her behavior here? Is her alignment known in BoB?

The quote I pulled jives with my experiences with SVS. This version of her doesn't. It's a sharp right turn, and I really don't know how to make heads or tails of it. If she's legitimately making an effort to change how she plays, that kind of sucks. I don't want to play with this version of SVS. I like her with her bite and fight and attitude. Who else keeps me in check?

I think she might have been lynched in BoB, but I didn't read any of the game, just her posts. My point in all this being that her behavior regarding you and Epi was uncharacteristic, and I wouldn't feel right turning a blind eye to it.

It's suspicious. What am I supposed to do? I'm not the walk-on-eggshells type.

Can I ask what seems a more likely scenario to people:

Epignosis caught Cookie with absolutely no logical evidence, and a completely shit track record for hunting baddies (Harry Potter, Death Note)

Or Epignosis, knowing Cookie didn't want to be on the mafia team, bussed her for the credit.

Epignosis, could you please describe in detail why you felt Cookie was "uncomfortable"? What, specifically, in her posts led you to believe she was not comfortable in her current role?

DharmaHelper wrote:Can I ask what seems a more likely scenario to people:

Epignosis caught Cookie with absolutely no logical evidence, and a completely shit track record for hunting baddies (Harry Potter, Death Note)

Or Epignosis, knowing Cookie didn't want to be on the mafia team, bussed her for the credit.

Congratulations. You graduated Mutual Exclusives 101, except, you didn't.

DharmaHelper wrote:Epignosis, could you please describe in detail why you felt Cookie was "uncomfortable"? What, specifically, in her posts led you to believe she was not comfortable in her current role?

I didn't feel Cookie was uncomfortable. I knew Cookie was uncomfortable.

I already answered your second question Day 1.

Epignosis wrote:Cookie doesn't like being bad. It makes her uncomfortable.

Cookie feels she is a more accomplished and confident civilian.

Which jar do you think this Cookie falls into?

Cookie wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Alright, game-related question for everyone:

What do folks make of DH's vote for Epi? Does it say anything about alignment for you, however small?

I have to get back to being frisky with my PhD work, so I'll be back at some point, IDK when.

Like SVS said, it could be a reaction. From a different angle, could also be very early bussing of a teammate? Could be just random, since that's what pretty much everyone will end up doing on Day 1. Too many possibilities to speculate.

Time will tell!

Naming all the possibilities that come to mind...doesn't answer the question.

I say this Cookie is foul, like a burnt peanut butter one that won't come off the pan.

Asking people the question isn't answering the question Epi.

What in her posts, gave you the impression she was uncomfortable?

DharmaHelper wrote:
Epignosis caught Cookie with absolutely no logical evidence, and a completely shit track record for hunting baddies (Harry Potter, Death Note)

On a semi-related subject, do I really have a shit track record for hunting Mafia?

I don't think I do. I do all right. You chose my worst game ever (HP) and a game I was independent in (DN) as evidence. I kicked ass in The Hobbit and Clue, only to be burned by Smaug at the end of the former and win in the latter.

I also called out Long Con Day 1 in Dom's game.

Yeah, I do okay.

No logical evidence, huh? What evidence did I use to vote for her? Illogical evidence?

Get back to me when you lynch Mafia this game. I don't even mind if you use blind luck to get you there.

Here.

DharmaHelper wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Cookie doesn't like being bad. It makes her uncomfortable.

Cookie feels she is a more accomplished and confident civilian.

Which jar do you think this Cookie falls into?

Cookie wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Alright, game-related question for everyone:

What do folks make of DH's vote for Epi? Does it say anything about alignment for you, however small?

I have to get back to being frisky with my PhD work, so I'll be back at some point, IDK when.

Like SVS said, it could be a reaction. From a different angle, could also be very early bussing of a teammate? Could be just random, since that's what pretty much everyone will end up doing on Day 1. Too many possibilities to speculate.

Time will tell!

Naming all the possibilities that come to mind...doesn't answer the question.

I say this Cookie is foul, like a burnt peanut butter one that won't come off the pan.

Asking people the question isn't answering the question Epi.

What in her posts, gave you the impression she was uncomfortable?

Did Cookie look like a confident and accomplished player?

No.

Ergo, she was bad.

Simple.

I have shit to do.

Epignosis wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:
Epignosis caught Cookie with absolutely no logical evidence, and a completely shit track record for hunting baddies (Harry Potter, Death Note)

On a semi-related subject, do I really have a shit track record for hunting Mafia?

I don't think I do. I do all right. You chose my worst game ever (HP) and a game I was independent in (DN) as evidence. I kicked ass in The Hobbit and Clue, only to be burned by Smaug at the end of the former and win in the latter.

I also called out Long Con Day 1 in Dom's game.

Yeah, I do okay.

No logical evidence, huh? What evidence did I use to vote for her? Illogical evidence?

Get back to me when you lynch Mafia this game. I don't even mind if you use blind luck to get you there.

I picked games in recent memory in which I participated.

You kept saying she doesn't like being mafia, but provided nothing to support A) That she dislikes being mafia and B) That she was uncomfortable in this thread. There was no logic. You just said something to back up you bussing a teammate.

sig wrote:I'm not sure about Mac's Mom he is lower on my mafia list since I doubt two mafia would vote on the same person so soon, It doesn't seem like your mafia right know either.
Idk I just really find Sabers posts odd and think he is mafia it is a gut read. Plus he made it sound like he had a huge reveal but never said anything.

Since Tiny has said last game she was a civilian and she didn't this time I found that odd.

For Timmer the only person he really suspected and voted on was Saberfish.
I still think Saberfish is mafia, however if a better candidate appears I would lynch them.
Though I find Ika vote strange he didn't post and then he lynched cookie who already has many votes on her, Ike also didn't vote day 1.
Ike who would you like to lynch and why?

sig, this is noted, thanks.

What post do you mean regarding Saber's huge reveal?

Rather than provide evidence, Epi talked in circles, so I'm voting for him

DharmaHelper wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Hello, Made! Who should we lynch and why?

DH, that's an interesting find. Do you believe that contradicts her behavior here? Is her alignment known in BoB?

The quote I pulled jives with my experiences with SVS. This version of her doesn't. It's a sharp right turn, and I really don't know how to make heads or tails of it. If she's legitimately making an effort to change how she plays, that kind of sucks. I don't want to play with this version of SVS. I like her with her bite and fight and attitude. Who else keeps me in check?

I think she might have been lynched in BoB, but I didn't read any of the game, just her posts. My point in all this being that her behavior regarding you and Epi was uncharacteristic, and I wouldn't feel right turning a blind eye to it.

It's suspicious. What am I supposed to do? I'm not the walk-on-eggshells type.

I don't blame you for bringing it up; I'm just trying to reconcile your viewpoint.

I do agree that we are seeing a different S~V~S this game, a more cautious one. I think she feels embarrassed about her behavior in recent games, particularly BoB (with Epi), so I can understand why she'd want to switch up her style. I'm not sure I think that style switch is inherently suspicious, since player styles are hardly incredibly static over a long period of time, from game to game, and there can be any number of reasons a player might change up a style.

I think S~V~S sounds genuine in her approach, but it could still make her mafia. Trying to pick your brain here.

DH needs a brain first, for you to pick it.

DharmaHelper wrote:Can I ask what seems a more likely scenario to people:

Epignosis caught Cookie with absolutely no logical evidence, and a completely shit track record for hunting baddies (Harry Potter, Death Note)

Or Epignosis, knowing Cookie didn't want to be on the mafia team, bussed her for the credit.

Epignosis tends to gun after players early in many games I've seen him play, usually based on suspicions that he has formed, however weak. Usually hardly anyone else is going after anyone else with near the audacity that he does.

I'm not sure I'd say Epi has a shit record. He tends to be hit or miss, like many of us, but I certainly don't think his record is any shittier than mine.

Either scenario is entirely possible. I'll never eliminate Epignosis from being mafia, since he could pull almost any move with regards to a teammate (from harsh bussing to harsh defending and anywhere in between) and I'd probably believe it. I saw his suspicion as genuine though.

It's interesting, since you, Epi, and S~V~S are my strongest reads right now for the genuine hunting in their behavior, yet you seem to find the two others suspect.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:Can I ask what seems a more likely scenario to people:

Epignosis caught Cookie with absolutely no logical evidence, and a completely shit track record for hunting baddies (Harry Potter, Death Note)

Or Epignosis, knowing Cookie didn't want to be on the mafia team, bussed her for the credit.

Epignosis tends to gun after players early in many games I've seen him play, usually based on suspicions that he has formed, however weak. Usually hardly anyone else is going after anyone else with near the audacity that he does.

I'm not sure I'd say Epi has a shit record. He tends to be hit or miss, like many of us, but I certainly don't think his record is any shittier than mine.

Either scenario is entirely possible. I'll never eliminate Epignosis from being mafia, since he could pull almost any move with regards to a teammate (from harsh bussing to harsh defending and anywhere in between) and I'd probably believe it. I saw his suspicion as genuine though.

It's interesting, since you, Epi, and S~V~S are my strongest reads right now for the genuine hunting in their behavior, yet you seem to find the two others suspect.

Squeaky wheel gets the grease. Ain't none of these other fuckers squeaking.

DharmaHelper wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:Can I ask what seems a more likely scenario to people:

Epignosis caught Cookie with absolutely no logical evidence, and a completely shit track record for hunting baddies (Harry Potter, Death Note)

Or Epignosis, knowing Cookie didn't want to be on the mafia team, bussed her for the credit.

Epignosis tends to gun after players early in many games I've seen him play, usually based on suspicions that he has formed, however weak. Usually hardly anyone else is going after anyone else with near the audacity that he does.

I'm not sure I'd say Epi has a shit record. He tends to be hit or miss, like many of us, but I certainly don't think his record is any shittier than mine.

Either scenario is entirely possible. I'll never eliminate Epignosis from being mafia, since he could pull almost any move with regards to a teammate (from harsh bussing to harsh defending and anywhere in between) and I'd probably believe it. I saw his suspicion as genuine though.

It's interesting, since you, Epi, and S~V~S are my strongest reads right now for the genuine hunting in their behavior, yet you seem to find the two others suspect.

Squeaky wheel gets the grease. Ain't none of these other fuckers squeaking.

Let's assume Epi flips mafia. Where would you look for the other teammates?

Same question if Epi flips civilian.

Would it be at all possible for some vote analysis? I liked what you had to say earlier on, I believe after Day 1. With a Cookie flip on Day 2, we should have more to go off of.

If I have enough time, I might start examining some interactions between Cookie and folks.

Also, what did folks think of these...?

MovingPictures07 wrote: 2) General Observations and Questions for Everyone

Spoiler: show

Made wrote:Ok, hi
So re the tangible argument against me. My post against niji was a joke. I never actually suspected bloop, just funny banter that apparently I can't get away with.

My post that replys to her suspicion to timmer was in support of her theory.

Honestly I'm kinda pissed that Epi and dh are able to get away with such bs reasonings for their vote with out anyone batting an eye because it's their meta. It's kinda bullshit and if I get voted before they do I'll will bring the salt.

Also gman's 8ball thing did(and does ) annoy me too because when we go back to day 1 5,6 days from now, we will literally have nothing on him. Do these make them bad? No. But it does make it hard to attack with out being shaken off with an "try again later" or an "nightwing suxs"
/rant


Gonna check spreadsheet for something really fast then vote probably.

How does everyone read this post by Made?

Seeing as though he seems to have significant heat surrounding him (from what I could tell, reading D2), I think it's worth discussing, since this is by far his most emotionally-charged post. Fake? Sincere? Why?

Spoiler: show

Roxy wrote:I have so many that I am willing to vote for today: Saberfish, MP, Cookie, Burger Boy, Made, Bubbles or DP if he does not answer my question

Linky - oooooo Now you are suspicious of Timmer------again after you said after reading back you did not find him suspicious?

Spoiler: show

Roxy wrote:Screw it I am voting Cookie - she pinged me the most - I will also add to my earlier suspicions and say she had said she was looking at Timmer or Made this lynch then made a quotey post about Timmer only and stayed mum on Made.

Roxy's progression here is notable.

Spoiler: show

nijuukyugou wrote:So many choices. I thought there would be more votes up given that several have announced their vote in the thread, but there are only 5 total so far? Huh.

Feeling slightly, slightly better about Made regarding tone, but that could be just him fixin' it up for me Thoughts on timmer haven't changed since I last spoke of him. Then this happens:

Roxy wrote:I have so many that I am willing to vote for today: Saberfish, MP, Cookie, Burger Boy, Made, Bubbles or DP if he does not answer my question

Linky - oooooo Now you are suspicious of Timmer------again after you said after reading back you did not find him suspicious?

Yes, this caught my eye as well. Trying to look more contributory, Cookie McNasty? I pointed out these same exactly things (minus the most recent quotes) when I voted him last and you made no comment on them then.

Vote by Blooper for Cookie.

Spoiler: show

Saberfish wrote:I'm voting for Cookie; them being flip-floppy about Timmer is enough for me.

Vote by Saberfish for Cookie.

These are the votes that rang most likely to be a teammate bussing Cookie, in addition to ika's unexplained (right?) vote, out of those who voted for her. Thoughts? Agree or disagree?

Spoiler: show

Roxy wrote:

HamburgerBoy wrote:Roxy, could you explain your particular suspicion here?

HamburgerBoy wrote:

Roxy wrote:Burger Boy (shifty vote is shifty for sure) could vote here

Why me? If anything I should be one of the least likely to be KillFace, unless you mean anyone on that team (the context of your post would indicate KillFace the fellow in particular though). By voting on someone that had one vote, my vote would have resulted in MM's lynch among several other people tied in second. It would be more logical for me to vote for someone with no votes, or vote for someone that already had two, if I were Killface.

It was your reasoning that I found shifty. It was like you put no thought or care into your vote and instead focused on keeping ties.

Spoiler: show

HamburgerBoy wrote:

Roxy wrote:It was your reasoning that I found shifty. It was like you put no thought or care into your vote and instead focused on keeping ties.

That's vague, and I'd disagree. I think I had posted more about Killface and double-voting stuffs than most other players at that point. My vote post itself didn't announce that, but the few posts leading up to it clearly showed me thought process.

Spoiler: show

Roxy wrote:Cookie - Also don't lump me with Blooper I never said your posts were fluff. I did think your earlier back pedal on Timmer was of note and now instead of keeping an eye on him you are considering a vote. I have never played with you so i do not know if your flip-floppy-ness is normal

Linky - fair enough Burger Boy.

What does everyone think of this interaction between Roxy and HamburgerBoy?

I had this in my super mega post from last night, but no one's really talked about it. So let's do that.

Also, which votes for Cookie look worst? Would a Cookie teammate have bussed her or thrown off elsewhere?

MovingPictures07 wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:Can I ask what seems a more likely scenario to people:

Epignosis caught Cookie with absolutely no logical evidence, and a completely shit track record for hunting baddies (Harry Potter, Death Note)

Or Epignosis, knowing Cookie didn't want to be on the mafia team, bussed her for the credit.

Epignosis tends to gun after players early in many games I've seen him play, usually based on suspicions that he has formed, however weak. Usually hardly anyone else is going after anyone else with near the audacity that he does.

I'm not sure I'd say Epi has a shit record. He tends to be hit or miss, like many of us, but I certainly don't think his record is any shittier than mine.

Either scenario is entirely possible. I'll never eliminate Epignosis from being mafia, since he could pull almost any move with regards to a teammate (from harsh bussing to harsh defending and anywhere in between) and I'd probably believe it. I saw his suspicion as genuine though.

It's interesting, since you, Epi, and S~V~S are my strongest reads right now for the genuine hunting in their behavior, yet you seem to find the two others suspect.

Squeaky wheel gets the grease. Ain't none of these other fuckers squeaking.

Let's assume Epi flips mafia. Where would you look for the other teammates?

Same question if Epi flips civilian.

Would it be at all possible for some vote analysis? I liked what you had to say earlier on, I believe after Day 1. With a Cookie flip on Day 2, we should have more to go off of.

If I have enough time, I might start examining some interactions between Cookie and folks.

I might do something tomorrow, but not right now. I would focus on the quieter players in either Epi flip scenario. Seems logical that the mafia would enjoy the louder personalities going at each other after losing one of their own.

DharmaHelper wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote: Let's assume Epi flips mafia. Where would you look for the other teammates?

Same question if Epi flips civilian.

Would it be at all possible for some vote analysis? I liked what you had to say earlier on, I believe after Day 1. With a Cookie flip on Day 2, we should have more to go off of.

If I have enough time, I might start examining some interactions between Cookie and folks.

I might do something tomorrow, but not right now. I would focus on the quieter players in either Epi flip scenario. Seems logical that the mafia would enjoy the louder personalities going at each other after losing one of their own.

Noted. If so, it would be mighty appreciated! I know it takes a lot of time though.

I need to finish packing and such, then maybe I can whip up some interaction posts.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

sig wrote:I'm not sure about Mac's Mom he is lower on my mafia list since I doubt two mafia would vote on the same person so soon, It doesn't seem like your mafia right know either.
Idk I just really find Sabers posts odd and think he is mafia it is a gut read. Plus he made it sound like he had a huge reveal but never said anything.

Since Tiny has said last game she was a civilian and she didn't this time I found that odd.

For Timmer the only person he really suspected and voted on was Saberfish.
I still think Saberfish is mafia, however if a better candidate appears I would lynch them.
Though I find Ika vote strange he didn't post and then he lynched cookie who already has many votes on her, Ike also didn't vote day 1.
Ike who would you like to lynch and why?

sig, this is noted, thanks.

What post do you mean regarding Saber's huge reveal?

He's referring to a post I made early on, saying I noticed a few things, but then opted not to talk about it because, this being my first online mafia game, I wasn't entirely sure on the game's mechanics. When this brought suspicion on me I said it was me noticing LC wanting to find Stan ASAP, which led me to believe he was on Team Crews.

How does everyone read this post by Made?

Seeing as though he seems to have significant heat surrounding him (from what I could tell, reading D2), I think it's worth discussing, since this is by far his most emotionally-charged post. Fake? Sincere? Why?

Reads most like a mafia/indie being salty about being taken down for a bullshit reason. Kind of like "I would be cool with it if you found me out legitimately, but what I'm taking votes for is kinda dumb".

Of the Cookie votes you mentioned Saberfish is the most suspicious to me. Thinking back to Death Note, I blasted Bass for parroting other people's suspects and nobody paid that any mind. Seems like what he's doing there. (Saber that is)

DharmaHelper wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:
Epignosis caught Cookie with absolutely no logical evidence, and a completely shit track record for hunting baddies (Harry Potter, Death Note)

On a semi-related subject, do I really have a shit track record for hunting Mafia?

I don't think I do. I do all right. You chose my worst game ever (HP) and a game I was independent in (DN) as evidence. I kicked ass in The Hobbit and Clue, only to be burned by Smaug at the end of the former and win in the latter.

I also called out Long Con Day 1 in Dom's game.

Yeah, I do okay.

No logical evidence, huh? What evidence did I use to vote for her? Illogical evidence?

Get back to me when you lynch Mafia this game. I don't even mind if you use blind luck to get you there.

I picked games in recent memory in which I participated.

You kept saying she doesn't like being mafia, but provided nothing to support A) That she dislikes being mafia and B) That she was uncomfortable in this thread. There was no logic. You just said something to back up you bussing a teammate.

I disagree, I'm with mp on this on. Epi guns people, that's his thing, often he's terribly wrong unless it's Enrique then he's very right. I don't think the voting cookie for cred theory really holds much weight. From a player who hates being bad, I don't think I'd let a teammate off me this early in the game, regardless of the civvie cred, because having more people I think is more important than a bit of day 3 cred.

Linki- having been salty for being taken down for a bullshit reason (glares at Enrique) I see the resemblance tbh...

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Spoiler: show

Roxy wrote:

HamburgerBoy wrote:Roxy, could you explain your particular suspicion here?

HamburgerBoy wrote:

Roxy wrote:Burger Boy (shifty vote is shifty for sure) could vote here

Why me? If anything I should be one of the least likely to be KillFace, unless you mean anyone on that team (the context of your post would indicate KillFace the fellow in particular though). By voting on someone that had one vote, my vote would have resulted in MM's lynch among several other people tied in second. It would be more logical for me to vote for someone with no votes, or vote for someone that already had two, if I were Killface.

It was your reasoning that I found shifty. It was like you put no thought or care into your vote and instead focused on keeping ties.

Spoiler: show

HamburgerBoy wrote:

Roxy wrote:It was your reasoning that I found shifty. It was like you put no thought or care into your vote and instead focused on keeping ties.

That's vague, and I'd disagree. I think I had posted more about Killface and double-voting stuffs than most other players at that point. My vote post itself didn't announce that, but the few posts leading up to it clearly showed me thought process.

Spoiler: show

Roxy wrote:Cookie - Also don't lump me with Blooper I never said your posts were fluff. I did think your earlier back pedal on Timmer was of note and now instead of keeping an eye on him you are considering a vote. I have never played with you so i do not know if your flip-floppy-ness is normal

Linky - fair enough Burger Boy.

What does everyone think of this interaction between Roxy and HamburgerBoy?

?[/quote]

Missed this before, this is sketch af mp. It seems more contrived from hamburger rather than roxy imo, which is giving me pause.

Yo, has mp done a rainbow list as mafia yet?

I'll be back in the morning to reply and vote <3

Taking a break.

And back to work. Nothing interesting here.

I'll probably vote Roxy or ika.

Responses in color <3

Epignosis wrote:

Roxy wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Roxy.

She likes new players and I think Cookie would appeal to her.

The "I will vote for anyone voting new players" angle (which Roxy does take regularly) turned into voting MetalMarsh89 for 3 votes when Cookie had 2 ("I broke the tie!"). She could have broken the Cookie Day 1. She didn't because of dogma.

The refusal to vote new players despite evidence is dogma, Roxy. Dogma.

She cast a wide net Day 2 ("I could vote any of these people") and ended up voting Cookie after I tipped the scales.

I feel confident Roxy is bad.

You cast a pretty wide net yourself. There is more than one baddie this game I try not to limit my suspicion to one player.
Tough shit about Day 1. Its how I play. It is who I am as a person. I will not change. The evidence you provided Day 1 just did not prick my interest. It was her flip floppy-ness on Timmer that I found so strange. I questioned her beginning with my "wide net" post you are referring to bc I linky'd with her while making it.

That isn't a wide net. Those are my opinions on new people, publicly relayed. Notice that I did not say "Here's a list of people I could vote for," as you did. After posting my thinking, I concluded that Saberfish was the most suspicious of the group (followed by Cookie and TinyBubbles). I elected not to vote for Saberfish, and then voted Cookie again.

Regardless of how wide my net was, I caught a fishy.

I too gave opinions on the people on my list of who I would vote for. After posting that and getting caught in linky with Cookie I questioned her more and made my feelings known in my posts. After much discussion and thinking I went with my strongest suspicion.

Irregardless of how wide my vote net was, I caught a fishy

Roxy wrote:After my questioning my list narrowed here:

Roxy wrote:For me it is Made or Cookie.

Your post six minutes after that is this:

Roxy wrote:just read Mades posts and it really does not read like joking. so iunno

This implies that you hadn't read Made's posts before narrowing it between Cookie and Made.

I had read Made along with everyone else and had already stated I found him suspicious and why. He came back and said that he was joking so I double checked and made my post saying I did not read it as joking. Are you just looking at what you want to instead of the whole picture? Why?

Before that, you don't really mention Made at all, except to say that you won't vote for him (Day 1), that his vote for timmer is "quite odd."

Of note is that both Made and Cookie were turning points based on their timmer takes. Cookie you went after for backing off, Made for voting.

Yes it was a turning point for inre: their Timmer votes. Both were acting fishy about their votes and reasoning. To be fair I said a bit more than it was odd- I actually explained why -

Made - his vote for Timmer is quite odd. He started off by saying he was in a voting Blooper kind of mood but then instead of following his own suspicion he follows who he is suspicious of and votes with Blooper against Timmer - like what? It all felt very fishy upon re-read.

Considering how Timmer flipped I feel pretty fucking good about my suspicions this game. I now find Made even more suspicious then I did before.

Roxy wrote:Epi - you knew she hated being mafia. I could see you bus her but I do agree it is more likely you would have helped her.
I guess you think I am a shitty player that could offer her no advice or help her in anyway if I had bts with her. That I would have let her flop around without help while helping to drive her lynch.

The implication of the underlined is this: Cookie's teammates, whoever they may be, are shitty players because they "could offer her no advice or help her in" any way. I realize that you don't mean that, but that is what you imply here. At worst, it's emotional manipulation.

Not emotional manipulation at all. I meant what I said - YOU must think *I* am a shitty player since you are acting like you alone led the Cookie lynch. You may have found her suspicious Day 1 but you really did not provide any thing more than she was "uncomfortable" being mafia where as I found her flip-floppy-ness more suspicious. You were not alone in bringing that lynch to fruition others helped.

No. I don't think you are a shitty player.

Thanks I don't think you are either.

What you did do is save her Day 1 by voting Metalmarsh89, and then vote Cookie late on Day 2. If you're on a team, you tried to help her. Day 2, you realized there was a good chance she was going down and, due to her loud, personal defeatism in BTSC I suspect, realized there was no chance helping her more than you had.

So no, I would see you as a teammate who tried her best and it just wasn't good enough.

I did not save anyone by voting MM. I followed my own suspicion Day 1. He never even acknowledged my posts. He ignored them completely - when you ignore me I find it suspicious hence my vote. Sorry you disagree with how I play on Day 1 and if you want to lycnh bc I would and will not vote certain people Day 1 then so be it please led the charge. But also be prepared to lead the same charge every game I play with you.
Cookie was not my teammate. If she was her game would have looked very different than it did - that much I guarantee.

linky - see above

I'm a little tired of "sorry you disagree how I play."

It's empty rhetoric.

The point is this: I brought up Cookie Day 1, and you weren't game. Fine. I get your thing about new people.

But your reason for voting Cookie stinks of a teammate. You couldn't help her Day 1, and you bussed her Day 2. I'm not letting that go right this moment.

Epignosis wrote:I'm a little tired of "sorry you disagree how I play."

It's empty rhetoric.

I'm sorry; I disagree how you play.

catching up and putting thoughts together as I go along

Thanks to whoever found my submission pleasing. And thank to DH for the idea.
also thanks LC I am glad the googly eyes made the difference

Gman - since Cookie was lynched and revealed as Simon (the Insanifier) do you still have confidence in your suspicion?
Do you find his vote for Timmer more suspicious like I do? Or do you have other reasons?

MP - yeah I dropped Burger Boy quick the other night bc I had Cookie to tend to. I still think he could be KF but no one else seems to agree with me. I hate the use of spoiler tags bc now I have to click on each one to see wtf you are talking about. I do not see a difference than your long posts without the tags. Only now i have to work more when I am playing. :P Yes I am *that* lazy.
Also upon reading Saberfish again maybe it is not a r/c. Iunno. It does not really read like a r/c but I do see what Epi was pointing to. Would you like me to quote it?
Yes I am only suspicius of you bc Daisy is. You must admit she can read you quite well. So when she points it out I listen. You should read posts in context bc when I said I was suspicious of you for different reasons I meant they were different than DH. Sorry you are finding me suspicious hope this response will help you. It does however feel a bit no u'y. Also damn straight my progression is notable bc I actually have progression unlike some who voted for Cookie.

Made wrote:Also since we have two days, I have no reason to feel bad for asking for thoughts on xanders reveal? No secrets in his or Wendell's role descriptions

Only that it makes even more suspicious of you. Remember sometimes their are secret-secrets in games Plus the fact you respect Cookie for insanifying Gman.

Made wrote:

Roxy wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:Roxy, your attitude is the least suspect thing about your play, IMO.

That makes me feel better. it is why I have been avoiding games here and playing on 2+2

Now that dh's arugment has been clarified, anything else you want to say about how weird your vote looked? I mean it's quite normal ffor you not to vote newbies, but for me personally, the switch to voting cookie seemed a little too quick. Especially considering there was still an hour or so left in the poll, it's as if you wanted to vote cookie early because you knew she was going to flip bad.

Have you actually read the last lynch? I did not vote early and my switch to vote her was not quick. There were minutes left on the poll when I voted tbqh.


Epi - How is it empty rhetoric when it is how I play?
You think my reasoning stinks, fine. At least I had reasoning better than she was a burnt cookie. LOL Your stinks also. A fox always smells his own hole first.

Roxy wrote:You think my reasoning stinks, fine. At least I had reasoning better than she was a burnt cookie. LOL Your stinks also. A fox always smells his own hole first.

My reasoning wasn't that she was a burnt cookie.

A fox always smells his own hole first because he presumably lives there.

I don't know why I bother.

I'm voting Roxy.

Epignosis wrote:

Roxy wrote:You think my reasoning stinks, fine. At least I had reasoning better than she was a burnt cookie. LOL Your stinks also. A fox always smells his own hole first.

My reasoning wasn't that she was a burnt cookie.

A fox always smells his own hole first because he presumably lives there.

I don't know why I bother.

Why are you only responding to certain portions of my responses?

Roxy wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Roxy wrote:You think my reasoning stinks, fine. At least I had reasoning better than she was a burnt cookie. LOL Your stinks also. A fox always smells his own hole first.

My reasoning wasn't that she was a burnt cookie.

A fox always smells his own hole first because he presumably lives there.

I don't know why I bother.

Why are you only responding to certain portions of my responses?

...because those certain portions I didn't respond to didn't pertain to me.

You're on the defensive Roxy. You can vote me if you want, but I am convinced you're naughty.

I'm not going to go back and forth with you. If you want, convince others to vote elsewhere.

Epignosis wrote:

Roxy wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Roxy wrote:You think my reasoning stinks, fine. At least I had reasoning better than she was a burnt cookie. LOL Your stinks also. A fox always smells his own hole first.

My reasoning wasn't that she was a burnt cookie.

A fox always smells his own hole first because he presumably lives there.

I don't know why I bother.

Why are you only responding to certain portions of my responses?

...because those certain portions I didn't respond to didn't pertain to me.

I asked you questions you have ignored.

Linky why would I vote for you?