The Syndicate

TheFloyd73 wrote:MM
His most recent posts are so baseless.

FZ. wrote:What is people's opinion of the Smuggler role? Is it someone that can harm the civvies (assuming all none harp are civvies fighting for the same cause)?

Elohcin wrote:

MacDougall wrote:I've seen this said a few times now. Why do you not put out your reads during the night?

If you are town and the scum kill you we have your thoughts. The scum killing a town version of you seems unlikely to me since you have a bit of suspicion on you.

I don't get it?

If the baddies kill me, I'm blaming you Mac

This is what I had written to share.....

I know you guys think I am crazy for my initial thoughts on Zebra's "overreaction". I had dropped the whole thing b/c she said she was joking and all. (i.e. my "you should have used sarcastic orange" comment.) I know some of you still harped on it, but for no good reason as I didn't suspect her any longer and did not vote for her (as I said). BUT!!!! Look at her vote in the poll. 5th overall, right after MM got two votes. I think she could be bad and felt like she needed to get eyes looking at another lynch possibility. I also think TH and FZ are possible baddies. I am not sure about Sig. If Zebra is bad, then I bet sig is civ and vise-versa. Also, I think Bea may be bad as well but that's just a hunch.

MacDougall wrote:

bea wrote:

S~V~S wrote:The way those votes struck me was this; one of the two of you, possibly both, are bad. And the lynch was tied between a baddie & a civvie. And the self voters did not want to vote for a teammate, and they did not want to be the tie breaker final vote on a civ. I have done similar things when bad, tangent voting, and self voting is a tangent vote.

I could totally be wrong, but that was how it struck me at the time.

I'm asking you SVS - I don't care about other people's opinions righ now. Your post convinced me we are on the same side. I care what you think of me.

Which S-V-S post convinced you she was a civ bea?

I'd prefer to not answer if that's ok? If pressed I will. I can tell you the reason I prefer not to answer is because I believe SVS has a particular civ tell that I'd rather her not know. Because she's a crafty as fuck baddie and I know when she realizes it she will adjust her game accordingly.

bea wrote:Nope. Because I don't have bts with anyone.

and also fyi - other's that have played with me can contradict me if they think I'm misrepresenting myself, but I don't self vote often. I've only done it if I literally don't know what's going on in the thread and I can't make a decision. I've only ever done it day one. It's something I reserve for when I feel even random feels like I could hurt someone.

I adore Floyd and we've had some completely nongame related conversations, but IDK why he did what he did. I look forward to the day we are teammates, but today is not that day.

this was my respnose to that quote.

I'm sorry I effed it all up.

I'm sorry if I was redundent in explanation.

There is a little bit of flavour to this one. Rather than outwardly saying you aren't scum you just mention that you aren't teammates.

Bea can you please show me other examples where you've self voted on day 1 as a civ?

bea wrote:

MacDougall wrote:

bea wrote:

S~V~S wrote:The way those votes struck me was this; one of the two of you, possibly both, are bad. And the lynch was tied between a baddie & a civvie. And the self voters did not want to vote for a teammate, and they did not want to be the tie breaker final vote on a civ. I have done similar things when bad, tangent voting, and self voting is a tangent vote.

I could totally be wrong, but that was how it struck me at the time.

I'm asking you SVS - I don't care about other people's opinions righ now. Your post convinced me we are on the same side. I care what you think of me.

Which S-V-S post convinced you she was a civ bea?

I'd prefer to not answer if that's ok? If pressed I will. I can tell you the reason I prefer not to answer is because I believe SVS has a particular civ tell that I'd rather her not know. Because she's a crafty as fuck baddie and I know when she realizes it she will adjust her game accordingly.

bea wrote:Nope. Because I don't have bts with anyone.

and also fyi - other's that have played with me can contradict me if they think I'm misrepresenting myself, but I don't self vote often. I've only done it if I literally don't know what's going on in the thread and I can't make a decision. I've only ever done it day one. It's something I reserve for when I feel even random feels like I could hurt someone.

I adore Floyd and we've had some completely nongame related conversations, but IDK why he did what he did. I look forward to the day we are teammates, but today is not that day.

this was my respnose to that quote.

I'm sorry I effed it all up.

I'm sorry if I was redundent in explanation.

There is a little bit of flavour to this one. Rather than outwardly saying you aren't scum you just mention that you aren't teammates.

Bea can you please show me other examples where you've self voted on day 1 as a civ?

Yes. I did not declare I'm not scum. I'm not scum. I sometimes say teammates instead of allignment. I did the same thing with svs saying "I need you to know we are on the same team." or something similar.

As for when I've self voted before as a civ, honestly it's so rare that I have done it that I can't remember. I was shocked that TH remembered me doing it as a baddie in Willow only beause I didn't remember self voting in that game. I have played lots of games. It's something I've done rarely. I honestly feel like my time would be better spent looking at this game than searching all the games I've played to find an example. If you want to search them, by all means feel free to. I'm not sure if I self voted here or not, but rev mafia and headville and LP were the other sites I played the most on. I'll happily provide links if
you want to go down that rabbit hole.

TH said he remembered me doing it as a civ and I welcome svs, golden and sorsha to chime in their two cents on the matter as well.

Long story short. I know I've done it and been civ. No I can't provide an example. I know this doesn't help my case. It is what it is.

Golden wrote:When I remember, I try to soften things so they look less like facts and more like opinions, since that is what they are. I have a history of ruffling feathers and giving others the impression I have a big ego because I write my opinions as facts not opinions.

(Which I do because thats what you are trained to do when writing legal opinions. You have to take out all of the "I thinks" etc.)

Elohcin wrote:

FZ. wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

MacDougall wrote:I've seen this said a few times now. Why do you not put out your reads during the night?

If you are town and the scum kill you we have your thoughts. The scum killing a town version of you seems unlikely to me since you have a bit of suspicion on you.

I don't get it?

If the baddies kill me, I'm blaming you Mac

This is what I had written to share.....

I know you guys think I am crazy for my initial thoughts on Zebra's "overreaction". I had dropped the whole thing b/c she said she was joking and all. (i.e. my "you should have used sarcastic orange" comment.) I know some of you still harped on it, but for no good reason as I didn't suspect her any longer and did not vote for her (as I said). BUT!!!! Look at her vote in the poll. 5th overall, right after MM got two votes. I think she could be bad and felt like she needed to get eyes looking at another lynch possibility. I also think TH and FZ are possible baddies. I am not sure about Sig. If Zebra is bad, then I bet sig is civ and vise-versa. Also, I think Bea may be bad as well but that's just a hunch.

First of all, I can't look away from your avatar. Did you make that too? It's killing me

Now to the content itself, what does the first part have to do with Zebra 2?
Second, I have considered zebra working with MM, because as a baddie, I've always went for leading a lynch and not bandwagoning on one. You always look better. So it's an option. The thing is, she felt genuine to me. I guess I'll have to reread her.

Forgive me. It took me a minute to remember that this is Zebra 2. I've been battling a mighty cold, perhaps the flu, and I am struggling physically and mentally because of it. I am FINALLY on the mend as of today, I believe. It's been plaguing me for over a week now. That said, my suspicion of Zebra 2 is all the same. I cannot remember, who did Zebra 2 replace? I want to reread whoever it was. I will look back if I get no immediate answer form someone already in the thread at the moment, but if I don't have to look, I won't.

Reading on...

also - to echo fz - did you make those? cuz omg omg omg. I want to omnomnom them! I heard a rumor that you know how to ship your delicous now. My birthday is in August. Just sayin'

MacDougall wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:I don't see the big deal with Matt's bolded comment. That seems speculative to me. I was referring to the connection between Eloh and Ni.

So you don't see what Golden and I both see?

Does nobody else?

MacDougall wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:I see it, and I don't think it's a scumslip.

You should be less quick to dismiss things Zebra. I posted an emoticon and he totally flipped out. I don't think the post in and of itself is inexplicable but his reaction deserves pause.

Matt F wrote:Where's Sorsha? Hey Sorsha, since for some inexplicable reason the Harkonnen didn't kill you, here are a couple of quotes for you...

I am civ. I don't have btsc. I am town aligned. I root for the townies. Townies are my best friend.

Take any or all of those and report back so Golden and Mac can get off my back, please.

a2thezebra wrote:In each of those posts I presented two possibilities: Either Mac simply wasn't giving my posts the time of day, or he was ignoring most of the information on purpose to advocate my lynch. Since he has proved to me that he is not doing the former by magically forgetting that I ever suspected him at all, it has suggested to me that it is in fact the latter.

Elohcin wrote:

Golden wrote:@Eloh - I've read all your posts very carefully.

And do you have any response?

I suspect there will be more votes on Sig before the day's end. What I am curious about is...why sig?

Is the redirection role usually a baddie role or a civ role?

@ Sorsha. I do. Are you voting for Sig today too?

Golden wrote:Tunnelingus?

Golden wrote:

Elohcin wrote:Sorsha, who do you suspect as being a part of Team Hark?

THe more Zebra 2.0 talks the more I suspect her. I would go ahead and vote for her now, but I think we who are not voting sig need to stick together to help save him. Is anyone else down with a zebra vote today?

If I hadn't voted sig, and I had a binary choice between voting either zebra or voting mac, I would choose to vote zebra. I could not be induced to vote mac today.

Zebra isn't at the top of my list though. And I'd rather not assume sig must be good... he could still be bad, despite the three votes he already has.

Elohcin wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

Elohcin wrote:Sorsha, who do you suspect as being a part of Team Hark?

THe more Zebra 2.0 talks the more I suspect her. I would go ahead and vote for her now, but I think we who are not voting sig need to stick together to help save him. Is anyone else down with a zebra vote today?

I've asked you for a single reason and you have yet to provide one.

I can't say for positive if I've seen it used on the civ side, but it's a general "chaos" role. Like "insanifier" used effectively it could be helpful to both sides for different reasons. A redirect used right as a civ (which is a crap shoot at best) could be like a block. TBH, typing this all out it's more useful as a mafia role as they control a target and they know who isn't on their team.

I have to ask again, this feels specific - why are you so sure there is a redirect? Not a swap targets sort of role in place? There is more than one way to get to the end of sig being where he is.


I will ask again...is a redirection role usually a baddie role or a civvie role. Can anyone answer that?

bea wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

Elohcin wrote:Sorsha, who do you suspect as being a part of Team Hark?

THe more Zebra 2.0 talks the more I suspect her. I would go ahead and vote for her now, but I think we who are not voting sig need to stick together to help save him. Is anyone else down with a zebra vote today?

I've asked you for a single reason and you have yet to provide one.

i can't say for positive if I've seen it used on the civ side, but it's a general "chaos" role. Like "insanifier" used effectively it could be helpful to both sides for different reasons. A redirect used right as a civ (which is a crap shoot at best) could be like a block. TBH, typing this all out it's more useful as a mafia role as they control a target and they know who isn't on their team.

I have to ask again, this feels specific - why are you so sure there is a redirect? Not a swap targets sort of role in place? There is more than one way to get to the end of sig being where he is.


I will ask again...is a redirection role usually a baddie role or a civvie role. Can anyone answer that?

FZ. wrote:What the hell is going on here?

Why is Drac dead? He was barely here. I can't see a reason to target him for a NK of all people.


I'm kind of pissed that I'm on several people's suspect list because of that vote. I would be such a bad baddie for doing that, but whatever.
Sorsha, do you really have a good reason for suspecting me other than my tie vote?


I think those voting for Sig so early on, did good, because it makes us see something is going on. I think whoever votes for Sig now is going to get a big eye from the rest, so maybe the baddies won't go that road. I'm interested to know whether people think whatever is happening around the Sig votes was the baddies' move or something else?

What is people's opinion of the Smuggler role? Is it someone that can harm the civvies (assuming all none harp are civvies fighting for the same cause)?


And by the way, I seriously don't know why Mac and Golden were on Matt's case. I had to read everything to try and understand what was wrong about his sentence. I was wondering if we would get other kills as well. Golden explained himself. What's up with Mac?

MacDougall wrote:It's not tied to the emoticon

bea wrote:

Matt F wrote:Where's Sorsha? Hey Sorsha, since for some inexplicable reason the Harkonnen didn't kill you, here are a couple of quotes for you...

I am civ. I don't have btsc. I am town aligned. I root for the townies. Townies are my best friend.

Take any or all of those and report back so Golden and Mac can get off my back, please.

I'm sorry if this has been addressed, but it stands out to me.
Why do you think Sorsha has a lie detector role?

Obviously she learned something N1 that lead her to D2, but there are all sorts of roles that could gain "info." Allignement checks and other things - that could have given her info too. Jumping right to lie detector eitheroddly specific just like your question to svs felt oddly specific.

FZ. wrote:What exactly was redirected though, the kill? What about the votes?

bea wrote:

FZ. wrote:What exactly was redirected though, the kill? What about the votes?

I think whatever put sig in the position he is currently in was redirected. I think the votes were forced probably in conjunction with the redirect to sig to get rid of him. I don't know why, but it seems like people have been trying to get rid of sig since day 1.

And again, no one can tell me why.

S~V~S wrote:It is possible. Although in Mafia structure, the Emperor could be another baddie, since he was against both Atreides & Harkonnen. It actually makes more sense, now that I am thinking about it, for him to be bad than for him to be indy. Although both night kills were house Harkonnen. Gah.

I am going to skate on thin ice here and hope not to annoy Skeletor~ based on his role, and based on something I know about my own role, , and based on my knowledge of the book, I think MMs power was as a poisoner. Based on my knowledge of Metalmarsh, I would not be at all surprised if he tried to poison me Night One. And I think Matt knew about it, based on his question to me about feeling safe. And I think he is target painting with both of those questions, the one to me and the one to Sorsha. I had not seen that question he posed to Sorsha, I am glad you pointed it out Bea. One question of that nature, OK, but two?

I overslept and will have to devote time to the other game when I get home tonight, so I am going to vote now.

*Votes Matt F*

Linki, BR suspected him based on something to do with the items, I don't recall exactly. Then she died. I have been frying my own fish, and tend to think sig just "sounds" bad most of the time and gets mislynched alot for it.

FZ. wrote:And TH is looking bad after this last post.

That's all you can say?



I'm starting to think I was wrong about the people I suspected. I feel better about Eloh, and worse about TH and Zebra.

FZ. wrote:What exactly was redirected though, the kill? What about the votes?

bea wrote:I think 3 votes at the start of the day with no explanation is a super sign of forced votes don't you?

bea wrote:I think golden flat out saying "I"m sorry I'm on this train" is a signal.

I think eloh's constant talk about redirect roles is a signal.

Don't you?

FZ. wrote:Bea, of course I think there's a vote manipulation here, but I'm not sure it has to do with redirection. If there was a redirection, who was it aimed at in the first place? Or am I understanding redirection wrongly?

MacDougall wrote:What kind of set up you thinking bea? Scum trying to get sig lynched kind?

Turnip Head wrote:
The player I'm most unsure of right now is Zebra. I have no read on her one way or the other.

Turnip Head wrote:Epi had a redirect role in the X-Men game, and it was a civ role. My role in Epi's WIllow game was a civ redirect role. But I've seen it as a baddie/indy role just as often.

Elohcin wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:
The player I'm most unsure of right now is Zebra. I have no read on her one way or the other.

I'm glad we're on the same page. Will you vote for her with me?