The Syndicate

Bird Mafia

17 players
NOT bastard
Closed setup
Flavour!
48/24 phases
no post cap
no night chat for town

I don't really know what else to say here. I can host it whenever. I had the setup vetted by an Unnamed Party Who is Really Cool. But if it sucks, it's solely my fault.

Will any of the birds have teeth?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:44 am Will any of the birds have teeth?

For you, yes.

What do you consider ‘bastard’?

I've added it to the queue.

G-Man wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:13 am What do you consider ‘bastard’?

Mostly, just that there won't be any misinformation or mechanics that obscure normal play. It'll be straightforward Mafia with roles. There's no bus driver, miller, godfather, etc.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:50 am I've added it to the queue.

Thank you!

Syn wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:40 pm

G-Man wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:13 am What do you consider ‘bastard’?

Mostly, just that there won't be any misinformation or mechanics that obscure normal play. It'll be straightforward Mafia with roles. There's no bus driver, miller, godfather, etc.

Would you consider a game with a 3p role / serial killer to be bastard?

G-Man wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 5:58 pm

Syn wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:40 pm

G-Man wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:13 am What do you consider ‘bastard’?

Mostly, just that there won't be any misinformation or mechanics that obscure normal play. It'll be straightforward Mafia with roles. There's no bus driver, miller, godfather, etc.

Would you consider a game with a 3p role / serial killer to be bastard?

No I wouldn't.

Syn wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:07 pm

G-Man wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 5:58 pm

Syn wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:40 pm

G-Man wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:13 am What do you consider ‘bastard’?

Mostly, just that there won't be any misinformation or mechanics that obscure normal play. It'll be straightforward Mafia with roles. There's no bus driver, miller, godfather, etc.

Would you consider a game with a 3p role / serial killer to be bastard?

No I wouldn't.

Should I?

The definition of "bastard" seems to vary wildly around the Internet.

The definition I am most accustomed to would be: a game or role is bastardized if the host overtly lies to you or obscures information that you cannot reasonably uncover.
- The second bit there would mean that millers, godfathers, et al wouldn't be "bastard" in a community where they occur frequently -- players can reasonably anticipate them.

Some folks use the term much more broadly to refer to any kind of game mechanic that is non-standard. I don't care for that depiction, but no matter.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:18 pm The definition of "bastard" seems to vary wildly around the Internet.

The definition I am most accustomed to would be: a game or role is bastardized if the host overtly lies to you or obscures information that you cannot reasonably uncover.
- The second bit there would mean that millers, godfathers, et al wouldn't be "bastard" in a community where they occur frequently -- players can reasonably anticipate them.

Some folks use the term much more broadly to refer to any kind of game mechanic that is non-standard. I don't care for that depiction, but no matter.

do you think that hidden godfathers and hidden unaware millers are a common occurance on the syndicate? i wouldn't say that they are common based off of my experience from the last half of 2020

and even if they were it would suck a lot for a newcomer player who isnt familiar with a site culture that employs these kind of stuff

its not fair to expect other people to let them know of the site culture during an ongoing game of deception where that newcomer wouldnt even nkow if they might be getting manipulated

im pretty adamant that hidden godfathers and hidden unaware millers are bastard in pretty much every shape form; i agree with calling "godfathers and millers bastard" they way syn called them, i also called them like that in my game

sorry; im not trying to come off as if you're advocating for gfs and millers and im opposing u, u were just saying something thats holistically truthful, i just cant miss an opportunity to share my disdain for potentially catastrophic game design, i just want the game of mafia to be played as best as it can be, is all!

tutuu wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 3:23 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:18 pm The definition of "bastard" seems to vary wildly around the Internet.

The definition I am most accustomed to would be: a game or role is bastardized if the host overtly lies to you or obscures information that you cannot reasonably uncover.
- The second bit there would mean that millers, godfathers, et al wouldn't be "bastard" in a community where they occur frequently -- players can reasonably anticipate them.

Some folks use the term much more broadly to refer to any kind of game mechanic that is non-standard. I don't care for that depiction, but no matter.

do you think that hidden godfathers and hidden unaware millers are a common occurance on the syndicate? i wouldn't say that they are common based off of my experience from the last half of 2020

I'm not sure I'd say anything is common 'round these parts. We do everything with equal rarity.

A number of us came from rateyourmusic originally, and games there had godfathers more often than they didn't have godfathers. In that environment, it was something town always kept a lookout for. There, failing to account for a godfather would have just been a foolish thing to do, and newcomers adapted quickly when old timers made it clear cop checks should not be viewed as absolute. On The Syndicate, it's difficult to pinpoint a consistent program or game culture since folks come from all over the place and our games have become a thick mixture of everything -- for that reason I would be less inclined to feature a godfather in a closed setup unless town was given some explicit means of guessing that one exists.

Importantly with millers, I am operating on the assumption that the miller is informed of their role. If not, then that represents a host lie in my eyes.

I’ve been informed that there is a fight. Please continue

FWIW, I disagree with a godfather and a miller role as being bastard, they’re pretty common imo.

Not bring told you’re a miller is indeed bastard though

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 4:35 am

tutuu wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 3:23 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:18 pm The definition of "bastard" seems to vary wildly around the Internet.

The definition I am most accustomed to would be: a game or role is bastardized if the host overtly lies to you or obscures information that you cannot reasonably uncover.
- The second bit there would mean that millers, godfathers, et al wouldn't be "bastard" in a community where they occur frequently -- players can reasonably anticipate them.

Some folks use the term much more broadly to refer to any kind of game mechanic that is non-standard. I don't care for that depiction, but no matter.

do you think that hidden godfathers and hidden unaware millers are a common occurance on the syndicate? i wouldn't say that they are common based off of my experience from the last half of 2020

I'm not sure I'd say anything is common 'round these parts. We do everything with equal rarity.

A number of us came from rateyourmusic originally, and games there had godfathers more often than they didn't have godfathers. In that environment, it was something town always kept a lookout for. There, failing to account for a godfather would have just been a foolish thing to do, and newcomers adapted quickly when old timers made it clear cop checks should not be viewed as absolute. On The Syndicate, it's difficult to pinpoint a consistent program or game culture since folks come from all over the place and our games have become a thick mixture of everything -- for that reason I would be less inclined to feature a godfather in a closed setup unless town was given some explicit means of guessing that one exists.

agreed!!

I would argue a cop existing in a closed setup is reason enough on its own to anticipate the existence of mafia roles that can mess with checks (be it godfather, miller, roleblocker, framer, redirector, etc. etc.)