The Syndicate

Robert bolted across the room. He tried his best to express gratitude to the shopkeeper for allowing him to use the telephone. He picked up the receiver and massaged his temples with his left hand. He had to remember that number. What was it again?

In a flash, it came to him.

He spun the dial frantically and tried to steady himself as it rang. He peeked out the window, both up and down the alley, to make sure no one was there.

Come on, he thought to himself. Dad said this number would get through no matter what.

It rang.

And rang.

And rang.

Finally, success.

“Congressman Smith’s office, this is Marcie speaking. How can I help you?”

“Marcie,” Robert cheered. “It’s Robbie.”

“I’m sorry, there’s a lot of static on your line. Who is speaking?”

“Robbie. Rob. Robert. Congressman Smith’s son.”

“Oh hello, Robert,” she said. “This line never hardly ever rings, so I-”

“Look, Marcie, I need to talk to dad. Right now. Is he in his office?”

“Well, I’m sorry Robert, he’s in the middle of a business lunch with a few members of that new Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. It’s been a bumpy two years for them, you know, and your father is trying to help them smooth out a few things.”

“I need you to interrupt him, Marcie. It’s urgent.” He looked out the window again.

The voice on the other end of the line got more serious.

“Now Robert, you know your father. You’re going to have to give me a pretty high-level passcode if I interrupt him in front of senators.”

“I understand, Marcie.”

“And what is your passcode, dear?”

“Lawyers, guns and money.”

“Oh my,” Marcie gasped. “Are you sure?”

“Yes, ma’am,” Robert replied. “Lawyers, guns and money.”

“Alright. I’ll go find your father. Sit tight and call this line back in 30 minutes.”

Remember that the premier rules in any Syndicate Mafia game come straight from the site rules. Review those rules below, and direct any concerns you may have to the host or moderator(s) on duty.

[Link] Rules and Guidelines on The Syndicate

Also always be mindful of the culture of respect that must be maintained in all Syndicate spaces at all times, to include this game thread and any external communication spaces relating to the game. Players must be respectful to one another, to the game host, to the members of the staff overseeing the game, to the game itself by way of its rules and spirit, to the Syndicate community in general, and ideally also to themselves. Respect is never optional. See our full manifesto on our culture of respect below.

[Link] A Syndicate Mafia Culture of Respect

GAMEPLAY:
1. Days are 48 hours long. I will do everything in my power to keep poll deadlines consistent.
2. Nights are 24 hours long.
3. Only those players who have BTSC may communicate with each other outside of the game thread but ONLY in designated BTSC threads or chat rooms. For everyone else, no game-related discussion is permitted outside the game thread.
4. Votes in the poll are the only votes that count. It's helpful but not mandatory that you declare your vote in the thread in a way that stands out to the host.
5. All votes are changeable all the way up to the deadline.
6. A tied day poll will result in no death. Votes matter. There will be no coin flips to determine poll results.
7. Standard alignment wincons are in effect.
8. Dead is dead; you don't get to come back from that. Dead players will have their BTSC rights removed.
9. Alignments will be revealed upon death.
10. I will probably end phases between 9:00 and 9:30 p.m. EST for this game. Any earlier is a challenge for me with getting the kids to bed.
11. The game thread will be locked during night phases.


RULES:
1) Be kind to everyone.
2) If you feel like another player is out of line or making/taking things personal/ly, contact one or both of our delightful game mods, ???.
3) No BTSC regarding the game outside of the game thread(s). Players are told in their rolecard if they have BTSC. If you don't have it, don't engage in it. Violating this rule will result in a modkill.
4) Role-claiming and info-dumping are prohibited in this game unless otherwise specified in the roles..
5) No editing or deleting posts.
6) Self-voting is prohibited.
7) Double-targeting is prohibited.
7) Off-topic posts should be in OT Green.
8) Dead players are to post in Dead Red.
9) Non-Players should post in Non-Player Blue.
10) This is the host's color. Do not post in this color.
11) Participation is polite and respectful to everyone involved. If I feel you may not be paying attention to the game, I will reach out to you. Replacements may be employed if necessary. If you sign up, please play. If you can't play, request replacement.
12) No modkills in this game for inactivity. If you abandon your slot, then your slot will remain empty until a replacement can be found, which hurts your team. If you cannot play, request a replacement.
13) Additional rules will be added/revealed on an as-needed basis.


ROLES:
1) This game is a 15-player Heist, featuring 12 town and 3 mafia.
2) Ten roles (nine town and one mafia) are vanilla.
3) Five roles (three town and two mafia) have powers:

-1 Town Doctor: Each night, they may protect one player of their choice. This will protect that player from all powers as well as the kill during the night phase. Self-protection is limited to once all game.

-1 Town Cop: Each night, they may alignment check one other player. You may roleclaim and infodump only once during the game. When you infodump, you may reveal the alignment of no more than two other players. Once you infodump, you will become vanilla for the remainder of the game. You must infodump before the mafia is down to their last living player or you will not be allowed to reveal their alignment if you know it.

-1 Town Deputy: Each night, they may alignment check one other player. They only receive information if the Town Cop is blocked, protected, or killed during the night phase. If the Town Cop is chopped or killed, the Deputy becomes a regular Town Cop and will receive their alignment check results each night. Because you are a deputy and still learning your craft, you may never roleclaim or infodump during the game, even if the Town Cop is eliminated. Any and all information that you receive must be worked into cases built for or against other players.

-1 Mafia Night Power Blocker: Each night they may block any player of their choice from using a night power. This blocking power is trumped by the Town Doctor's protection power.

-1 Mafia Conditional Vote Blocker: If both mafia teammates are still alive, this player can select two players each night and their votes will be secretly voided the following day phase. If only one of their mafia teammates are still alive, this player can select only one player each night and their vote will be secretly voided the following day. If both of their teammates are dead, this role becomes vanilla.

Yis

Isn't this setup too townsided? It's like mountainous 12v3 but with three self-clearing townies + cop checks and wolves don't even have extra KP to make for it.

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Oct 08, 2022 6:49 pm Isn't this setup too townsided? It's like mountainous 12v3 but with three self-clearing townies + cop checks and wolves don't even have extra KP to make for it.

I think the main imbalance im seeing is that:
-if mafia lose one of their own early, it’s basically gg, since the conditional becomes nerfed, but the
-town have infinite shots to both protect and investigate

Yeah, it’s a bit townsided. Though I feel like town has been slacking in the win column of late in general the past few years

Scotty wrote: ↑Sat Oct 08, 2022 7:17 pm

Yeah, it’s a bit townsided. Though I feel like town has been slacking in the win column of late in general the past few years

This, the plus baddies have won roughly 2/3 of my games historically despite what I thought were civvie friendly setups. Town has found ways to pull defeat from the jaws of victory enough times in my games that I’m experimenting with the mix. Also, this is my first Heist with five power roles, so I have to dabble a little to find that proper mix. It’s also a simpler setup, which accommodates RL right now.

In a traditional sense, the setup appears townsided. Having a backup cop is extremely powerful. However, that mafia vote blocker is also extremely powerful.

I'd expect town to win this game most of the time in a balanced player list. There's a lot of swing though, in that the setup might just mean whichever team gets an early lead will be significantly protected from losing that lead.

doctor guiding as well probably breaks it, rest seems fine enough

Does prohibiting info-dumping and role-claiming do anything to aid the balancing calculus. The way you all are talking makes me inclined to prohibit both.

I can see your points from a pure theory perspective, but the practice of mafia always differs from theory because people make irrational decisions.

G-Man wrote: ↑Sun Oct 09, 2022 5:40 pm Does prohibiting info-dumping and role-claiming do anything to aid the balancing calculus. The way you all are talking makes me inclined to prohibit both.

I can see your points from a pure theory perspective, but the practice of mafia always differs from theory because people make irrational decisions.

I would suggest caution with that rule pending your player list. That kind of thing can be very difficult for players who aren't used to the rule (like Syndicate players were five years ago), and it tends to get very messy (it happened to Sloonei and I as hosts in somewhat recent memory in separate games).

I think that a couple of small adjustments could square away the game well enough. Perhaps instead of having an infinite-shot cop and doctor, change each to a 2-shot cop and 2-shot doctor. Then likewise you could reduce the vote manipulation role to voiding just one player at most (because voiding two is immensely powerful).

That reduces the overall townsiding and probably the huge swing too. The problem of doctor guiding (a doctor that can automatically protect any cop that claims) is also alleviated if the shots are reduced.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Oct 09, 2022 6:50 pm

G-Man wrote: ↑Sun Oct 09, 2022 5:40 pm Does prohibiting info-dumping and role-claiming do anything to aid the balancing calculus. The way you all are talking makes me inclined to prohibit both.

I can see your points from a pure theory perspective, but the practice of mafia always differs from theory because people make irrational decisions.

I would suggest caution with that rule pending your player list. That kind of thing can be very difficult for players who aren't used to the rule (like Syndicate players were five years ago), and it tends to get very messy (it happened to Sloonei and I as hosts in somewhat recent memory in separate games).

I think that a couple of small adjustments could square away the game well enough. Perhaps instead of having an infinite-shot cop and doctor, change each to a 2-shot cop and 2-shot doctor. Then likewise you could reduce the vote manipulation role to voiding just one player at most (because voiding two is immensely powerful).

That reduces the overall townsiding and probably the huge swing too. The problem of doctor guiding (a doctor that can automatically protect any cop that claims) is also alleviated if the shots are reduced.

Meh, I think I’ll just roll the dice and keep things as they are. I think the combo of baddie powers has enough potential to keep things interesting. If it’s a mess, it’s my mess. It would feel lame to make such dramatic tweaks at this point. I’ll be sure to run my future games through the balance-savvy folks to avoid this awkward talk.

/spec plz

I figured these sign-ups would be slow to gain traction because of the anniversary games, and that’s ok. We’ve got five signed up, so I owe you all another flavor post in the next few days.

I’m a maybe. If you yank the info dumping and role claiming, I’ll go to yes. I’ll probably be an appalling embarrassment, lol, but your flavor posts alone will be worth it. Keep me posted.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 3:23 pm I’m a maybe. If you yank the info dumping and role claiming, I’ll go to yes. I’ll probably be an appalling embarrassment, lol, but your flavor posts alone will be worth it. Keep me posted.

I'll play if svs is playing!!

I want to play without info dumping and role claiming

What is it usually? Info dumping or no?

Kate wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 9:26 pm What is it usually? Info dumping or no?

He said in the set up that he wasnt sure what way to run it, with or without. I wouldn’t have brought it up otherwise. Plus there was some discussion in the thread about balance.

I love G Man’s games, but I know myself well enough to know I don’t do well in games with info and role claims

S~V~S wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 9:57 pm

Kate wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 9:26 pm What is it usually? Info dumping or no?

He said in the set up that he wasnt sure what way to run it, with or without. I wouldn’t have brought it up otherwise. Plus there was some discussion in the thread about balance.

I love G Man’s games, but I know myself well enough to know I don’t do well in games with info and role claims

I agree 100%. I thought maybe it had said info dumping ok, then you asked to switch and he was in deciding mode...

Nah his game his set up

And I did miss these smilies

S~V~S wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 10:08 pm Nah his game his set up

And I did miss these smilies

S~V~S wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 10:08 pm Nah his game his set up

And I did miss these smilies

I might play too, but I hope role claiming and info-dumping stay in. I had trouble with that in the past, being old school, but I think I could deal with it now.

Matahari wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 10:23 pm I might play too, but I hope role claiming and info-dumping stay in. I had trouble with that in the past, being old school, but I think I could deal with it now.

I always felt it was an easy way out for civs and it was unfair to baddies. I felt like with it in a game you have to almost overpower baddies to compensate. So after doing it once disastrously in a game @nutella hosted at the Piano, I never tried it again and never developed the skill to either do it or see it when others do it.

I’m hopelessly old fashioned lol

S~V~S wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 10:36 pm

Matahari wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 10:23 pm I might play too, but I hope role claiming and info-dumping stay in. I had trouble with that in the past, being old school, but I think I could deal with it now.

I always felt it was an easy way out for civs and it was unfair to baddies. I felt like with it in a game you have to almost overpower baddies to compensate. So after doing it once disastrously in a game @nutella hosted at the Piano, I never tried it again and never developed the skill to either do it or see it when others do it.

I’m hopelessly old fashioned lol

I think I ruined a game here a few years ago because I was supposed to info dump and I couldn’t. I just kept on trying hard to build a case and everyone just didn’t get what I was going on about. So I felt terribly over the hill, because I couldn’t understand this style of playing. But now, I’m thinking it would be kind of fun to try it again. Maybe see if I could get it right this time

S~V~S wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 10:36 pm

Matahari wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 10:23 pm I might play too, but I hope role claiming and info-dumping stay in. I had trouble with that in the past, being old school, but I think I could deal with it now.

I always felt it was an easy way out for civs and it was unfair to baddies. I felt like with it in a game you have to almost overpower baddies to compensate. So after doing it once disastrously in a game @nutella hosted at the Piano, I never tried it again and never developed the skill to either do it or see it when others do it.

I’m hopelessly old fashioned lol

Some of us (myself) have been doing it for years now and still don't know how to do it well.

Also it's great to see you again SVS!!

Let me know if you end up signing up for this one, I'm considering playing.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 10:36 pm

Matahari wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 10:23 pm I might play too, but I hope role claiming and info-dumping stay in. I had trouble with that in the past, being old school, but I think I could deal with it now.

I always felt it was an easy way out for civs and it was unfair to baddies. I felt like with it in a game you have to almost overpower baddies to compensate. So after doing it once disastrously in a game @nutella hosted at the Piano, I never tried it again and never developed the skill to either do it or see it when others do it.

I’m hopelessly old fashioned lol

I’ve seen this game evolve over the years.
I agree that if you info dump and claim, you need a balance for the mafia. A common balancing mechanism that I’ve seen in the past few years is soup kills, or at least some sort of anti-claiming mech. A common soup kill is like “once a game, make a list of players and their supposed roles. If you are correct, those players die”

This gives more agency to the mafia to punish those that are ballsy enough to claim, and more leeway for civs to make fake claims.

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 12:22 am

S~V~S wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 10:36 pm

Matahari wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 10:23 pm I might play too, but I hope role claiming and info-dumping stay in. I had trouble with that in the past, being old school, but I think I could deal with it now.

I always felt it was an easy way out for civs and it was unfair to baddies. I felt like with it in a game you have to almost overpower baddies to compensate. So after doing it once disastrously in a game @nutella hosted at the Piano, I never tried it again and never developed the skill to either do it or see it when others do it.

I’m hopelessly old fashioned lol

I’ve seen this game evolve over the years.
I agree that if you info dump and claim, you need a balance for the mafia. A common balancing mechanism that I’ve seen in the past few years is soup kills, or at least some sort of anti-claiming mech. A common soup kill is like “once a game, make a list of players and their supposed roles. If you are correct, those players die”

This gives more agency to the mafia to punish those that are ballsy enough to claim, and more leeway for civs to make fake claims.

Yeah, I totally get that. It's just that I came up in the game from a place where info was considered bad form to the point that role check roles were at times frowned on (and I was in a cabal with the Dutchies, whose motto was "Death to info dumpers!"). I am certainly not criticising, just stating my personal preference. Many other people from the same background as I adapted to this just fine, it's a me thing, not a mechanics thing. I don't enjoy games with this element, and why play a game you don't enjoy If I do play an occasional game going forward, it would only be one without this element.

In this instance, the host said he was waffling, and he comes from the same place I do, mafia-wise, so I just wanted to let him know I would play if he decided this element was not part of the game. I am so old fashioned that I don't even like naming civvies in the thread or making lists of people you trust, that still looks like a hit list to me. "I've pencilled So'n'so in as a certain civvie role" just reads like target painting to me, which is kinda silly of me, especially in games with only one baddie team lol, but it is what it is. So it's me, not the mechanics, 100%. Again, I was not trying to start any kind of critique or discussion of accepted mechanics. Just my own quirky old lady personal issues

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 12:04 am Also it's great to see you again SVS!!

Let me know if you end up signing up for this one, I'm considering playing.

Squeee!! Will do.

I change my vote to maybe. I am having surgery on my right hand in November and I was told I might not be able to use it for as long as two months (worst case). I’m right handed so it would probably be frustrating to post left handed. I have no idea when this game would start, so safer to change my vote.
Looks like it will be a fun game!

I was inspired by conditionality and have made the following adjustments. See how these strike your fancy:

4) Role-claiming and info-dumping are prohibited in this game unless otherwise specified in the roles..

-1 Town Cop: Each night, they may alignment check one other player. You may roleclaim and infodump only once during the game. When you infodump, you may reveal the alignment of no more than two other players. Once you infodump, you will become vanilla for the remainder of the game. You must infodump before the mafia is down to their last living player.

-1 Town Deputy: Each night, they may alignment check one other player. They only receive information if the Town Cop is blocked, protected, or killed during the night phase. If the Town Cop is chopped or killed, the Deputy becomes a regular Town Cop and will receive their alignment check results each night. Because you are a deputy and still learning your craft, you may never roleclaim or infodump during the game, even if the Town Cop is eliminated. Any and all information that you receive must be worked into cases built for or against other players.

In.

I can do that. In.

Got eliminated early in the anniversary match, so why not? /in

@fingersplints
@bea
@Golden

@juliets
@LoRab

What is this why am I being summoned into temptation by my old school friends.

Golden wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 2:20 pm What is this why am I being summoned into temptation by my old school friends.

I believe I was sent here from the past to complete this mission.

Golden wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 2:20 pm What is this why am I being summoned into temptation by my old school friends.

You know you’ve really hit rock bottom the pinnacle of mafiadom when you start recruiting your wife and kids.

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 4:11 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 2:20 pm What is this why am I being summoned into temptation by my old school friends.

You know you’ve really hit rock bottom the pinnacle of mafiadom when you start recruiting your wife and kids.

I had my kid playing when he was 7.

Kate wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 4:14 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 4:11 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 2:20 pm What is this why am I being summoned into temptation by my old school friends.

You know you’ve really hit rock bottom the pinnacle of mafiadom when you start recruiting your wife and kids.

I had my kid playing when he was 7.

Welp

Like I said, nowhere to go but up!

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 4:16 pm

Kate wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 4:14 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 4:11 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 2:20 pm What is this why am I being summoned into temptation by my old school friends.

You know you’ve really hit rock bottom the pinnacle of mafiadom when you start recruiting your wife and kids.

I had my kid playing when he was 7.

Welp

Like I said, nowhere to go but up!

The quote in my signature was one of his more insightful posts. It was actually hilarious, he was so mad that Llama got svs lynched (who he had met IRL) he went on and on until he got Llama lynched who then flipped civ.

There's a game where a lot of kids played Thomas the train. If you ever want a few laughs search Andrew's posts. It was so funny.

Kate wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 12:37 pm @juliets
@LoRab

omgosh, @S~V~S , Kate, and maybe @Matahari?? My girlfriends from yesteryear? And maybe @bea and @fingersplints? More gf's from yesteryear? And @LoRab who I wanted to have as a gf?? Have missed you all so much except for splints who luckily for me is around now! Maybe we should forget mafia and have a girls weekend somewhere!

Matahari wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 10:23 pm I might play too, but I hope role claiming and info-dumping stay in. I had trouble with that in the past, being old school, but I think I could deal with it now.

Mata!!!!!!!

Kate wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 12:34 pm @fingersplints
@bea
@Golden

You rang?

Kate wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 3:10 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 2:20 pm What is this why am I being summoned into temptation by my old school friends.

I believe I was sent here from the past to complete this mission.

How very...well....Kate of you! Now we just need someone 2 see dat u tube vid and it is just like home....

Kate wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 4:14 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 4:11 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 2:20 pm What is this why am I being summoned into temptation by my old school friends.

You know you’ve really hit rock bottom the pinnacle of mafiadom when you start recruiting your wife and kids.

I had my kid playing when he was 7.

Didn't we have him play on HV once? I seem to remember that, but I could be wrong.

juliets wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 5:02 pm

Kate wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 12:37 pm @juliets
@LoRab

omgosh, @S~V~S , Kate, and maybe @Matahari?? My girlfriends from yesteryear? And maybe @bea and @fingersplints? More gf's from yesteryear? And @LoRab who I wanted to have as a gf?? Have missed you all so much except for splints who luckily for me is around now! Maybe we should forget mafia and have a girls weekend somewhere!

Also, while Gman is awesome, like....yes plz on girls weekend. I volunteer to host! (Heck, we can let gman come too!)

Ok Kate is in so I am in.

And I’m just gonna give bea the eye until she signs up too.

Golden wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 12:28 am Ok Kate is in so I am in.

*squee*

As much as I'd love to, i am likely too busy to do it. I will krrp haunting sign up threads tho! That is my favorite part of the game anyway.

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 12:04 am Also it's great to see you again SVS!!

Let me know if you end up signing up for this one, I'm considering playing.

I am playing, Marmot! Hope to see you it’s been a while.