The Syndicate

I am Spartacus

(Yes, I did carefully check that Spartacus was not a role before I said that).

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:09 am

Golden wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:03 amI am Spartacus

What does one dream of when he is no longer a champion ?

Errr... I dunno, but I bet it's a reeeeeeeeeally long dream.

Also, nice to meet you!

People I have not yet played with in any meaningful capacity:

Choutas, colin, dunya, Kites, lapluie, Luna, nova, wolbre...

That's a decent list. I think I've played with Choutas and dunya but not had us both remain alive in a game for very long.

I also haven't played with Kyle since... well, let's say... it's gotta be 6 years, right? 2012?

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:23 pm I wonder what playing Mafia with Socrates would be like

“Plato is a hack” - Socrates

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:46 pm

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:23 pm I wonder what playing Mafia with Socrates would be like

Ugh, he’d probably just tediously ask everyone to explain their every thought.

What do you mean by that, Sloonei?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:12 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:47 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:46 pm

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:23 pm I wonder what playing Mafia with Socrates would be like

Ugh, he’d probably just tediously ask everyone to explain their every thought.

What do you mean by that, Sloonei?

Why do you ask?

I’m Socratic

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:20 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:18 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:12 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:47 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:46 pm

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:23 pm I wonder what playing Mafia with Socrates would be like

Ugh, he’d probably just tediously ask everyone to explain their every thought.

What do you mean by that, Sloonei?

Why do you ask?

I’m Socratic

Please, I’m way more cratic.

To be fair, ‘so’ is only like a 7 or 8 out of 10, so I won’t contradict you.

I was up to date with the thread briefly and it's all downhill from here.

If I had to put money on MPs alignment, it's town. Like, literally his first post pinged people. That seems like town MP to me.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:40 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:25 pm I was up to date with the thread briefly and it's all downhill from here.

If I had to put money on MPs alignment, it's town. Like, literally his first post pinged people. That seems like town MP to me.

Does that say anything about the people he pinged?

Probably not, but I'll consider that response in more depth later.

MP is shady as shit when town; the question is whether any of the people who are pinged would normally see it that way.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:45 pm @Golden what's ur recent history? did u play/host many games while i wasn't around

I played pretty heavily from 2015 to mid 2017, then took a six month break, then hosted GoC. So I haven't probably played in close to a year, other than briefly in the Syndicate 2018 sock game (roleplaying as Marmot).

There now appear to be many game-relevant posts on day one. I blame MP, but I'm voting sloonei for now because yolo

[VOTE: sloonei] aubergine

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:37 am

Golden wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:33 am There now appear to be many game-relevant posts on day one. I blame MP, but I'm voting sloonei for now because yolo

[VOTE: sloonei] aubergine

Tell me more.

There's nothing to tell. I wanted to see where the votes currently stood in style.

Or, perhaps, the best answer is that a vote for you at this point comes with no baggage.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:45 am

Golden wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:43 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:37 am

Golden wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:33 am There now appear to be many game-relevant posts on day one. I blame MP, but I'm voting sloonei for now because yolo

[VOTE: sloonei] aubergine

Tell me more.

There's nothing to tell. I wanted to see where the votes currently stood in style.

Or, perhaps, the best answer is that a vote for you at this point comes with no baggage.

Do the votes tell you anything?

The one that stands out the most right now is dunya's vote for scotty - I have no history with dunya, but dunya has no history with scotty. It's possible it stands out for 'culture clash' reasons.

I disagree with sig's vote but will defend to the death his right to vote that way. Who knows how I'll feel when I actually read the thread carefully. Sig is, as we all know, the guy to take suspicion wrong on day one, so don't want to be overly fixated on it, but it's... I don't love it.

MP takes an early vote and votes for someone back, after being starved of mafia for ages? Yeah, I'm good with that. MP's the guy who opens candy at Christmas, eats it all, and can't fit in his Christmas dinner, and then wakes up sick the next morning. That's exactly what that vote is to me.

I'll forgive any yolo votes at this point so I'm fine with TH. In fact, it's his style.

You can talk about me in italics all day but don't play the behaviour, play the person. You got a problem with me yoloing and supporting TH for yoloing? Don't just say you do - say why you do. Do you expect something different? Why? What is on the board that warrants me making a serious vote right now?

sig wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:58 pm

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:57 pm

sig wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:52 pm Also wolbre and I are from the same original site, we've aldo played on mu once together. However, every game we've played together I've been mafia or independent so I never really bothered to learn his meta.

I don't believe he's ever been mafia and is still new to mafia as a whole compared to all of us, he's also deadily as an independent and in my opinion if he's one of those three trading guys he'll side with mafia for the lolz.

But no one asked about wolbre yet.

Good to know nonetheless. Looking forward to playing with you, wolbre!

I don't like this post its weird, light scum ping on MP

So sig is confusing 'weird' for 'bad' I think - understandable when the weird is directed at him, I think.

Sig - I think you were bad with MP in the scrimmage game, right? Did you think he was 'weird' then?

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:16 am

Golden wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:03 pm MP is shady as shit when town;

is he not shady as shit when he's scum?

Not quite so early as that

And am I finding MP shady as shit? I probably wouldn't go quite that far... but he's jumping out of his skin to make reads that aren't there, so certainly suspectable.

Scotty would genuinely give new players a pass, but then I think jay or MP would too - like them, scotty could turn around and bite you in the neck. His friendly demeanour is him no matter what. Expect the best one liners and a lot of laughs.

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:39 am

Golden wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:23 am

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:16 am

Golden wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:03 pm MP is shady as shit when town;

is he not shady as shit when he's scum?

Not quite so early as that

And am I finding MP shady as shit? I probably wouldn't go quite that far... but he's jumping out of his skin to make reads that aren't there, so certainly suspectable.

I tend to think people who "jump out of their skins to make reads" on day 1 are more likely to be town. how and why do you find it suspectable?

Do you see me saying mp is bad or good?

What is suspectable is a fact learned through many years of playing. What is suspectable is not the same as what is bad. What is shady is not the same as what is bad. I can have the cleanest nose in the street and be bad, that’s my talent.

MP is basically always suspectable no matter what. But I think honk he holds it in a little longer when bad.

I don’t know where than honk escaped from lol

Making reads that aren’t there - don’t take only the first half. Making reads might be town behaviour. Forcing reads is often a sign of mafia.

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:59 am which reads has he forced?

Are you asking because you aren’t following what I’m saying or just because picking a fight is interesting?

Which read do you think I mean?

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:06 am

Golden wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:02 am

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:59 am which reads has he forced?

Are you asking because you aren’t following what I’m saying or just because picking a fight is interesting?

Which read do you think I mean?

I ISO'd you and didn't find a clear answer of where or towards whom you felt MPs reads were forced...

do you enjoy asking a question in reply to a question instead of answering the question?

I think it’s clear by inference. I’m interested in what you believe I mean. At the moment I think you’re more interested in my words than my meaning, and I don’t love that look.

And yes I rather do.

dunya wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:28 pm

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:14 pm Votes are changeable

why marmot?

i'm leaning towards a scotty vote. is he usually sincere? is not voting for people you've never played with general etiquette? i've never played with him before but letting everyone he's never played with avoid his day 1 vote seems like a good way to seem friendly and agreeable.

Or just good form.

If this is your reason for a vote I think it’s worth noting that there are several people (myself included) who share this position as a general rule, so it holds less tangible goodwill value here than it might in some places.

Straight answers might give you answers, but it doesn’t give me any.

Don’t try and catch me in semantics. It’s not a game I’ll play. If you can answer my question (and yes, anyone who has read my iso ought to be able to), then I’ll beloeve your questions are in good faith. Right now I don’t - I think they are just to generate content. None of the questions you’ve asked me have any meaning - you’re trying to push me into defending the idea that I can believe sig has a bad read on mp while holding my own town view. I can hold both those views at once, and I’m not going to let that be used against me.

Welcome wolbre, nice to meet you.

For the record though, dunya, I like this exchange - even if I don’t trust your motives, it’s a good signpost for later.

Wolbre

1) the poll sets the end of phase. We don’t have a timer functionality, so make sure you are set to the local time in the user control panel

2) such lists are perfectly welcome.

Dunya

The answer is sig. I haven’t read most of MPs posts but I read the first one in which he called sig out for mentioning wolbre.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:42 pm

sig wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:58 pm

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:57 pm

sig wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:52 pm Also wolbre and I are from the same original site, we've aldo played on mu once together. However, every game we've played together I've been mafia or independent so I never really bothered to learn his meta.

I don't believe he's ever been mafia and is still new to mafia as a whole compared to all of us, he's also deadily as an independent and in my opinion if he's one of those three trading guys he'll side with mafia for the lolz.

But no one asked about wolbre yet.

Good to know nonetheless. Looking forward to playing with you, wolbre!

I don't like this post its weird, light scum ping on MP

What don't you like about it ? Him calling you out ?

How much history do you have with sig, nova? (Serious question, btw).

Choutas wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:00 am

Golden wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:33 am There now appear to be many game-relevant posts on day one. I blame MP, but I'm voting sloonei for now because yolo

[VOTE: sloonei] aubergine

This is sloppy. Yellow card for you another one and you get my vote.

Please, let me know what I need to do to get another yellow card.

But they're actually basically golden cards anyway.

Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:06 pmThanks you for your tome

Glad to see scotty's autocorrect is on point with the thematic jokes.

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:50 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:03 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:40 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:25 pm I was up to date with the thread briefly and it's all downhill from here.

If I had to put money on MPs alignment, it's town. Like, literally his first post pinged people. That seems like town MP to me.

Does that say anything about the people he pinged?

Probably not, but I'll consider that response in more depth later.

MP is shady as shit when town; the question is whether any of the people who are pinged would normally see it that way.

What do you mean I'm shady when I'm town?

Are you sure you want me to answer this?

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:53 pm Turnip Head came in and placed an ironic joke vote on Marmot (which was funny, by the way), but then vanished without a trace. I don't like it.

Why not? Is there anything abnormal about this? It reminds me of a game... I don't even remember which one now... where TH did this to me virtually exactly the same on day one. I wonder if I can find it for comparison. I feel like he did basically the exact same thing though.

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:11 pmfrom a tone POV I'm not sure I actually believe she believes what she's saying about him.

MP said this about dunya and I find this interesting since it is virtually identical to the objection I just felt in my conversation with dunya.

So, the question is... to those that know dunya, is this our lack of knowledge of her? Dunya's questions *feel* hollow to me, is this me trying to project dunya onto sloonei or something?

Sloonei, actually, it's possible you are best placed to answer this. Interested in Choutas' view too.

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:58 am

Golden wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:02 am

sig wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:58 pm

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:57 pm

sig wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:52 pm Also wolbre and I are from the same original site, we've aldo played on mu once together. However, every game we've played together I've been mafia or independent so I never really bothered to learn his meta.

I don't believe he's ever been mafia and is still new to mafia as a whole compared to all of us, he's also deadily as an independent and in my opinion if he's one of those three trading guys he'll side with mafia for the lolz.

But no one asked about wolbre yet.

Good to know nonetheless. Looking forward to playing with you, wolbre!

I don't like this post its weird, light scum ping on MP

So sig is confusing 'weird' for 'bad' I think - understandable when the weird is directed at him, I think.

Sig - I think you were bad with MP in the scrimmage game, right? Did you think he was 'weird' then?

but wasn't it weird? I'm going to channel my inner Jay for a moment here and say that every post we make has a purpose, intentional or not. maybe MP didn't realize it, but even subconsciously, his pondering of sig's motive meant something. let's go back to meta and histories, sig is famously known to be easily mislynched for being shady. I learned that the hard way when I led for his mislynch in a game and everyone beat the crap put of me. I just wasn't crazy about how fast MP dropped sig like a hot potato, kind of retracting his earlier push by concluding sig is being sig.

Like I said, channeling inner Jay, everything has a purpose..

My read on MP is that his purpose was "I haven't played in mafia forever can I make a read now, yes, please, thankyou!" You should always apply the 'golden retriever' test to MP first and foremost.

It could be NIA but I think it tends more towards not having any need to moderate himself for a btsc team. He's snowed me before, but generally speaking I find MPs motives quite easy to read.

Choutas wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:11 am

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:16 am

Golden wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:03 pm MP is shady as shit when town;

is he not shady as shit when he's scum?

are you saying you're finding MP shady as shit atm?

This. Good catch.
I mean half of the players on rym were shady as fuck by default but the general consensus follow the leads even if somebody has a history of looking bad by accident.

You can follow what you think is a lead, I can townread what I think is a townlead. It's not a lead, it's a misread. I feel like this is a freestyle rap with nowhere to go.

MP doesn't have a history of looking bad 'by accident'. He has a history of looking bad when town to generate shit, and to hold back a little when bad to avoid taking the heat he inevitably takes after approximately one post whenever he's town.

It's a day one read but I'm pretty happy with it.

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:01 am

Golden wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:49 am The one that stands out the most right now is dunya's vote for scotty - I have no history with dunya, but dunya has no history with scotty. It's possible it stands out for 'culture clash' reasons.

I dunno. I prodded Scotty for info on his personality both from Scotty and others, and backed it up with a vote. My vote and questioning his motives and sincerity has created discussion. This is a good thing. We have 48 hours; my vote's moving all over the place before I make a more informed Day 1 decision.

Would you generally trust someone who assessed their own behaviour as a 'good thing'?

What is inherently better about your first vote being based on info for pressure, as opposed to yolo that creates pressure?

Choutas wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:21 am

Golden wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:01 am

Choutas wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:00 am

Golden wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:33 am There now appear to be many game-relevant posts on day one. I blame MP, but I'm voting sloonei for now because yolo

[VOTE: sloonei] aubergine

This is sloppy. Yellow card for you another one and you get my vote.

Please, let me know what I need to do to get another yellow card.

But they're actually basically golden cards anyway.

Downplaying somebody's post.

Boom! I win!

I have a long history of taking votes on day one when town. You're finding out why right now. My day one record when not town is substantially cleaner.

Oops, there I go talking about my own meta. I ping myself!

In all seriousness though, why are you voting on such basic grounds? Don't you think it would be incredibly easy for me to have played a much cleaner game to date? My behaviour so far has been virtually asking for votes. Kyle even independent read me. Don't I strike you as an 'easy vote' right now?

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:52 am Do you see me saying mp is bad or good?

do you see me saying i think you think mp is bad or good?
[/quote]

Interesting - I think we meant two different things here.

I meant that I had a solid townread when you were going at me as though I was painting him bad.
I think you meant you'd legitimately not made a read on him.

Choutas wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:28 am Sloppy -> Scumtell
Random voting -> Scumtell

No to both. These are weak-ass reasons for any vote. This is basically the definition of confusing 'weird' with 'bad'. This is like a list of reasons for all the mislynches on sig, marmot and wilgy over the years.

I'm being 'sloppy' because I'm having fun, and my vote wasn't in the slightest bit random but was in fact very carefully considered. It just wasn't because I suspect sloonei.

Through it all, I challenge you to accuse me of lack of meaningful content, because I think you'll find I've already got more than most everyone else in the thread.

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:31 am

Golden wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:22 am

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:01 am

Golden wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:49 am The one that stands out the most right now is dunya's vote for scotty - I have no history with dunya, but dunya has no history with scotty. It's possible it stands out for 'culture clash' reasons.

I dunno. I prodded Scotty for info on his personality both from Scotty and others, and backed it up with a vote. My vote and questioning his motives and sincerity has created discussion. This is a good thing. We have 48 hours; my vote's moving all over the place before I make a more informed Day 1 decision.

Would you generally trust someone who assessed their own behaviour as a 'good thing'?

What is inherently better about your first vote being based on info for pressure, as opposed to yolo that creates pressure?

I didn't assess my behavior as being a good thing; I said the discussion that has revolved around it is a good thing. There's a subtle difference you should be able to catch.

who said my second vote is inherently better? who determines what is better anyway?

You didn't answer either of the questions but rather the subtext I didn't ask (notableg, given my conversation with you until this point was about words vs meaning) I applaud you for playing me at my own game.

I'm not asking about your second vote, just your first vote compared to mine.

Put it this way, I'm asking you for your value propositions. I'm trying to figure out what makes you tick on day one.

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:34 am

Golden wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:14 am My read on MP is that his purpose was "I haven't played in mafia forever can I make a read now, yes, please, thankyou!" You should always apply the 'golden retriever' test to MP first and foremost.

what's the golden retriever test? you love anything with the word "golden" don't you?

Does MP look like he's eager just to have every possible experience in the game and have a read on all players within the first ten minutes? If yes, town.

There are things with golden in that, y'know, I wouldn't know either way.

My MP town read is sincere. It's about timing. He would be shady as shit later if he was bad. The shady happened early.

Choutas wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:35 am No it's a game. Mistakes are repeated, the problems the mafia faction faces are the same since time immemorial. You can not simply change a principle it would turn the game upside down.
Then we won't lynch the scum looking players but the town looking players because apparently they can replicate town behaviour perfectly and the townies have a bad history of looking mafia.
Right.

Good logic, but it only works if you plug the correct 'mistakes' in to it in the first place, and then actually apply them correctly. You did neither.

Random voting is not what I did, and even if it was it's not a sign of a baddie around here - it's the sign of certain people. People are way too meta to be caught by changing their behaviour on something so trivial from game to game.

As for being 'sloppy', I haven't been in the slightest. I've been casual, but don't mistake the two. You won't convince me you're righter because of a principle than I am reading someone I know extremely well.

Choutas wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:37 am Golden retrieves my vote.
"pun intended"

I approve this pun!

Mac, is it possible you are accidentally catching up by reading MPs iso instead of the thread?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:55 am

Golden wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:25 pm I was up to date with the thread briefly and it's all downhill from here.

If I had to put money on MPs alignment, it's town. Like, literally his first post pinged people. That seems like town MP to me.

Interesting perspective. Do you have any tangible evidence to support your opinion?

Just keep reading bro. See what you think of my opinion once you're up to date. I'm not sure whether you'd call it either 'tangible' or 'evidence'.

I went to do a GTH and realised most of these people I know nothing about. So a quick run down of people I feel I have a sense of:

I'm liking:

MP
Mac
Sloonei
Scotty
Speedchuck

I have no read:

Sig
Kyle

I'm wary of:

Dunya
Nova

I'm not really liking:

Choutas
Epignosis

[VOTE: Epignosis] aubergine

I'll move this vote if...

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:45 am

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:40 amIf.

If what?