The Syndicate

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 11:17 pm I’m most disappointed that everyone is disregarding the most obvious mech here so I’ll go ahead and lay it out.

This role exists:

Rebecca Walton - She wants nothing more than revenge on Rupert for cheating and publicly humiliating her. If she finds him, she drains all his money. (She will not be told she found Rupert.)

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 11:11 pm If you guys could get a guarantee wolf kill or go for a fancy play which would you do?

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 8:23 pm

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 7:59 pm

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 2:27 pm Robyn, Cape, Bereft, and Abi I have as my towncore rn. Abi singlehandedly changing the elim to Michelle and her play shielding SVS makes me feel very good about her.

Excuse me?

Still don't know how I am not in this list

Cape90 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 7:50 pm

Bereft wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 1:52 pm

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 7:29 am The hider gets the person they hid behind killed if they are targeted right?

Thats the impression I got when I read the roles.

that isn't how hiding always works

the only other thing I can think of is the mafia just not deciding night actions on anyone for the night phase, which shows apathy, which to me doesn't make a lot of sense, but it would make LoRab scum if that's the case, but again, idt it makes sense even with the low posters

Bereft wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 3:18 pm I'm at a breaking point honestly. Just kill Scotty for my sanity.

Scotty - keeps trying to kill me
DM - lack of knowledge about the game is v indicative in a vacuum
LoRab - both Michelle and SVS at this point have made long posts about how LoRab is essentially a martyr.
Wilgy - strike me as unconcerned
SVS - i havent read their latest posts
Thunal - defended Michelle earnestly

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 2:27 pm Robyn, Cape, Bereft, and Abi I have as my towncore rn. Abi singlehandedly changing the elim to Michelle and her play shielding SVS makes me feel very good about her.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 2:14 pm

Bereft wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 1:58 pm I'm going to do this backwards and try to find 4 town then.

I'm going to assume Rondo is one of them, don't know where, but I will try to find the remaining 3.

Are you counting robyn and Cape? Because I'm pretty sure they should be strong town.

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 10:14 am

Bereft wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 9:11 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2023 2:46 pm
-makes a weird assertion that she saw something in Robyn calling cape/bereft town. That makes no sense. I mean, cape/Robyn all but claimed that they’re masons, so that as given. But bereft once again being pushed as noble for associations rings hollow to me. Unless he’s exactly the cop. But why would mafia leave cop alive N1 if they thought that was the case? Makes no sense.

Why did you quote this?

Bereft wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 9:12 pm In case @DarlingMonroe whats to know what someone thats not me thinks about Robyn/Cape

And what does this have to do with Robyn or cape

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 7:29 am The hider gets the person they hid behind killed if they are targeted right?

Cape90 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 3:26 am

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 8:53 pm

robyn wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 8:52 pm Colin Hughes - Spends most of the series hiding who he really is from his teammates. Hides behind another player once a night.

What about this role?

[VOTE: Scotty] aubergine

Lemme tell you a thing that I think you know and you are trying to be nonchalant about
Okay so check the rolelist. Ted Lasso is a protective role this game, the only... town one (there is the trio mafia person who has a protect). JJJ was Ted Lasso

So looking back at how the day started off. You notice there was NO kill? What could have possibly happened?
Bada Bing Bada Boom the only way for mafia didn't kill anyone if if they targeted the role YOU are questioning here.

I mean if you were town, you would obviously be at least curious about this nobody dying thing and probably look into it for yourself. I did that, I was like "oh" and I carried on with my day.

That is why I heavily question the reaction you gave here. Mafia KNOW EXACTLY who this mysterious Colin guy is I would assume with absolute confidence because that's the person they tried killing last night.

Cape90 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 3:04 am

Bereft wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 7:58 pm I quite frankly have no clue of DM's alignment at this stage of the game. Sorry but that's what happens the inactive guy that everyone just assumes has to be a part of the team, flips.

I similarly have no clue of what LoRab's alignment. That their slot continues to exist with any reasonable conclusions on the slot is worrying.

If you believe that it was obvious that Mich/LoRab was v/w, then you should probably state your reasoning as such.

What does DM's alignment have to do with TS' flip?

How is LoRab existing worrying to you? OFC they wont die unless we vote them out since they haven't been here since day 1. Saying that aspect is "worrying" is making me WORRY about YOU.

Check Michelle's logs, like Michelle was either in complete antispew on that slot or they are w/w. If LoRab is town, I have already brought this up day 3 ago

Cape90 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 2:56 am
I know I cannot reasonably suspect you but man what does "given everything" mean in terms of your read on Thunal?

How did Scotty TMI TS town? You haven't said ANYTHING about this out loud yesterday

Bereft wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 10:00 pm The lack of NK is concerning ....

Like its technically possible that the shot went off and went nowhere but I have reasons to doubt this.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 7:26 pm Do Thunal33 and Scotty fit together as mafia teammates?

From Thunal

Spoiler: show

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 11:18 pm I like Scotty's entrance, and I think his comment about Cape's entrance is >rand town.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:41 am oops, SVS I was going to ask you what your takes on LC/Scotty were.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:55 am I'm liking Cape so far, I think his curiosity about my RVS vote question was good and it feels like he's saying whatever takes come to mind.

Long Con
Scotty
JJJ
Cape

everyone else

LoRab
SVS

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 7:29 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:07 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:01 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:00 pm [VOTE: Thunal] aubergine
Cu cu cachoo

Could you indicate which of Thunal's read(s) you found half-baked?

Their vote for SVS came out of nowhere for me:

Spoiler: show

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:40 am

Spoiler: show

S~V~S wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 6:53 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 12:38 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 12:11 am @S~V~S do you feel it is on-brand or not (or neither) for @Long Con to express early suspicion of you?

Onnnnnnnnnn-braaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnd...... on-brand. On-brand. Towny. Wolfy. On-brand. Sassy. Classy. On-brand. Interesting. On-brand. Bon-rand?

@JaggedJimmyJay this is what I meant by "theatricality". I used to auto read this as bad~ weirdly enough, even in games where I was bad, and i had TMI re LC being town, I STILL read him as bad, which is why he's always an easy yeet for me when I'm bad. I kinda half believe it when I'm making the case.

LoRab wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 2:24 am
I am on record as not believing in contributing to such lists, or rankings. I'm not a fan and I don't generally post them. Those here who have played with me a lot can attest.

Similarly, I hate when people trust me. Stop naming me, people! And, really....I'm kind of freaked out that I'm on this site and not yet suspected. What's up with that? I don't think that has ever happened. At all on here, and rarely in prior communities.

That used to freak me out, too. Naming civs, like WTF. Extreme target painting. I still don't love rainbow lists, and prefer baddie hunting to townie hunting.

I'm used to it now.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 6:59 am

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:56 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 11:20 pm S~V~S is bad. She's humouring in there like nobody's business. Setting the scene, agreeable. If I were cruder and didn't know S~V~S, she's also sucking up to Jay, possibly pocketing.

Intriguing take- I feel like I have the unique benefit of having just wolfed with her and I haven’t seen anything specific about her that is throwing off my paranoia alarm. And I’m usually paranoid of her as of the last 3 games before I wolf’ed with her.

Now do me do me

OK, you're freaking me out here. I don't think you've EVER said anything like this to/about me. Not the last 3 games. EVERY. GAME. Every one. You think I'm bad.

What did you take away from wolfing with me that makes you say this?

Also gotta go get ready for work. Love my new job, hate the longer commute.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 7:04 am One last *?*, Bereft seems to be only addressing/alluding to Robyn and Jay, with the exception of his towny list, which was an answer to Jay, if I'm not mistaken.

I would not be able to read him if I tried, is this a normal thing for him? I don't find it to be AI, it just stuck out to me skimming his ISO.

Where are SVS's own reads? A lot of her posts feel like commentary and not actually taking stances. LC's post used to be read as auto bad and Scotty's freaking her out, but she didn't make actual reads off those when I feel like it would be natural for her to do.

@S~V~S
[VOTE: SVS] aubergine

Their loRab push was also not strong.

Even though through a lens, I actually independently find I agree with their reads of both SVS and LoRab: where are SVS’ reads, and why is LoRab so freaked out about being townread?

Both of those pushes are low confidence, and LoRab's is even lower confidence than SVS. I woke up this morning, read the thread, and SVS's more recent posts caught my eye. I guess you could say it "came out of nowhere" but that's pretty normal/NAI at this stage in the game.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 7:56 pm I feel like SVS would know if Scotty had secret tells on him or not and so lying about this wouldn't make much sense from Scotty.

This sort of meta read about Scotty suspecting SVS every game can go w/t either way or t/t. The only thing I think it's unlikely to be is w/w. If Scotty suspects SVS every game and both of them know it, mafia Scotty might go out of his way to suspect SVS again or he could change it to pocket SVS. SVS's post felt dramatic, with not much substance other than that it's freaking her out and I'd expect that post to go with a read or investigation on Scotty.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 10:28 pm

Cape90 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 9:10 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:47 am Lorab isn’t doing anything so far to make me townread her, and frankly is rather blendy in her entrance posts.

Though I don’t remember how LoRab operates. It’s been a while

blendy this blendy that

Tbf, I've seen town Scotty make that kind of read.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 10:32 pm @JaggedJimmyJay what are your top reasons for sussing Scotty?

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 10:34 pm I personally don't think Scotty has been scummy and I have a few town pings from him, but enough people I feel good about are sussing him (particularly JJJ/Long Con) that I want to reeval that read.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 10:40 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:07 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:01 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:00 pm [VOTE: Thunal] aubergine
Cu cu cachoo

Could you indicate which of Thunal's read(s) you found half-baked?

Their vote for SVS came out of nowhere for me:

Spoiler: show

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:40 am

Spoiler: show

S~V~S wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 6:53 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 12:38 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 12:11 am @S~V~S do you feel it is on-brand or not (or neither) for @Long Con to express early suspicion of you?

Onnnnnnnnnn-braaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnd...... on-brand. On-brand. Towny. Wolfy. On-brand. Sassy. Classy. On-brand. Interesting. On-brand. Bon-rand?

@JaggedJimmyJay this is what I meant by "theatricality". I used to auto read this as bad~ weirdly enough, even in games where I was bad, and i had TMI re LC being town, I STILL read him as bad, which is why he's always an easy yeet for me when I'm bad. I kinda half believe it when I'm making the case.

LoRab wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 2:24 am
I am on record as not believing in contributing to such lists, or rankings. I'm not a fan and I don't generally post them. Those here who have played with me a lot can attest.

Similarly, I hate when people trust me. Stop naming me, people! And, really....I'm kind of freaked out that I'm on this site and not yet suspected. What's up with that? I don't think that has ever happened. At all on here, and rarely in prior communities.

That used to freak me out, too. Naming civs, like WTF. Extreme target painting. I still don't love rainbow lists, and prefer baddie hunting to townie hunting.

I'm used to it now.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 6:59 am

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:56 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 11:20 pm S~V~S is bad. She's humouring in there like nobody's business. Setting the scene, agreeable. If I were cruder and didn't know S~V~S, she's also sucking up to Jay, possibly pocketing.

Intriguing take- I feel like I have the unique benefit of having just wolfed with her and I haven’t seen anything specific about her that is throwing off my paranoia alarm. And I’m usually paranoid of her as of the last 3 games before I wolf’ed with her.

Now do me do me

OK, you're freaking me out here. I don't think you've EVER said anything like this to/about me. Not the last 3 games. EVERY. GAME. Every one. You think I'm bad.

What did you take away from wolfing with me that makes you say this?

Also gotta go get ready for work. Love my new job, hate the longer commute.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 7:04 am One last *?*, Bereft seems to be only addressing/alluding to Robyn and Jay, with the exception of his towny list, which was an answer to Jay, if I'm not mistaken.

I would not be able to read him if I tried, is this a normal thing for him? I don't find it to be AI, it just stuck out to me skimming his ISO.

Where are SVS's own reads? A lot of her posts feel like commentary and not actually taking stances. LC's post used to be read as auto bad and Scotty's freaking her out, but she didn't make actual reads off those when I feel like it would be natural for her to do.

@S~V~S
[VOTE: SVS] aubergine

Their loRab push was also not strong.

Even though through a lens, I actually independently find I agree with their reads of both SVS and LoRab: where are SVS’ reads, and why is LoRab so freaked out about being townread?

This is something I actually think is towny for Scotty. Why would wolf Scotty weaken his push by saying he agreed with my reads? I feel like wolf Scotty would just go after me rather than giving credit to my reads especially if one was right. Even if they were both wrong I think he'd either push me harder or pocket me by finding common ground as mafia.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 10:44 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 10:40 pm

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 10:32 pm @JaggedJimmyJay what are your top reasons for sussing Scotty?

It would be dishonest of me to call them my reasons, because I am kind of sheeping this one right now. But I think some others raised valid gripes or were otherwise convincing:

- Scotty calling Long Con's "unhinged" post towny was goofy.
- As S~V~S climbs the town ladder, I give her instinct more credence (that Scotty was off in resisting LC's suspicion of her)
- His read on LoRab didn't actually make sense (this thing) -- acknowledging a "difference in approach" with respect to her aversion to town reads and then basically ignoring that difference when suspecting her.
- Bereft has never openly town read Scotty, and I think he has a strong grip on the game right now.
- I decided my own town read was biased by my desire for players to be involved, and he was the first to take up that banner.

I might add one new gripe: his suspicion of you seemed kind of opportunistic. He even agreed with your reads

The LoRab thing is an interesting point. People like you, SVS, and LoRab herself were quick to tell me that it's normal to not want to be trusted for old school players, but Scotty knew this (I think) and still found it suspicious.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 10:50 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 10:44 pm

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 10:40 pm This is something I actually think is towny for Scotty. Why would wolf Scotty weaken his push by saying he agreed with my reads? I feel like wolf Scotty would just go after me rather than giving credit to my reads especially if one was right. Even if they were both wrong I think he'd either push me harder or pocket me by finding common ground as mafia.

I read that the opposite way. It's not so much that he "waffled" on you or lost confidence about you, but rather he disproved his own read of you.

He called your reads of S~V~S and LoRab "half baked" based on frivolities (they "came out of nowhere" or were "not strong", whatever those really mean), and then he granted why they weren't half-baked... all while keeping his vote on you. In this instance, I don't care much about what "mafia Scotty" would or would not be likely to do from the standpoint of "how to handle Thunal", but rather I have to ask "was this ever a real read at all"?

It could be a real read, but your post made me think of something. When I find someone who has similar thoughts to me that I didn't say anything about yet, I'd tend towards townreading them rather than having gripes for how they came up with those reads. Normally I feel good about having the same opinions as someone else even if I thought the way they got there was sudden or weak.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:01 pm I'm having trouble sorting Cape. He turned around really fast and in response to pressure twice which made me think he was trying to get the pressure off him and find a push because he was getting voted. But I liked some of his earlier thoughts and they were similar to mine.

I have a tinfoil Scotty/Cape are w/w. Cape has way more reasons to sus Scotty and finds a lot of his posts wrong, but his other susses like SVS, Abi, and me are much thinner. I also don't quite get why he opened Scotty's early ISO in the first place instead of someone else's since his last Scotty read was a townread.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:11 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:03 pm @Thunal33, I had the same thought that Cape's quick flurry of anti-Scotty propaganda might be more about getting out of trouble than actually suspecting Scotty. However, he made some points I thought were legitimately compelling too.

I can see some of it - when I went back and reread Scotty his ISO seemed more one note than I remember and some of his reasons for suspecting people weren't very strong or actually scum AI.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:15 pm [VOTE: Scotty] aubergine

I'm probably most comfortable with my vote here for the night.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 1:01 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 12:33 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 9:41 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 9:38 pm Clearly there's a wolf in the Scotty, Bereft, Cape90, Jay realm, so which of these is it?

Scotty > Cape90 >>>>> Bereft

[VOTE: JJJ] aubergine

Full on OMGUS mode. I know I said Jay shouldn’t be D1’d but circumstances change and I feel like I’d be remiss if I missed this again

I don't like that Scotty went straight to voting Jay here. It's hard to see suspecting Jay because he sheeped people as a real thought.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 1:06 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 12:53 am

robyn wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:12 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 12:52 pm I’ve turned around on Cape- even tho he doesn’t have a lot of posts, what posts he has made are actual reads. Obviously I would like him to expand on them, but he’s making definitive reads

Thunal on the surface looks fine with their reads, if not making reads that come off as half baked. And no one wants a half baked pie, except maybe the stray cat that hangs out on my patio after dark. He’ll eat anything.
Scumlean

this post is actually disgusting, but i have to read cape's posts in the interim, either way blahhhh, early shade on cape who is the easiest mischop on this side of the mississippi is just not a good look for a player of scotty's stature and understanding

This post seems opportunistic.

Of all the people having suspicions on me, yours feels hollow

[VOTE: robyn] aubergine

I don't think I agree with the Robyn sus, but it's a decent original point for Scotty to pick up. Especially because robyn only expressed sus on the shade on Cape when Scotty was already being widely suspected and not before.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 1:17 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 1:08 am

robyn wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 12:58 am

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 12:53 am

robyn wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:12 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 12:52 pm I’ve turned around on Cape- even tho he doesn’t have a lot of posts, what posts he has made are actual reads. Obviously I would like him to expand on them, but he’s making definitive reads

Thunal on the surface looks fine with their reads, if not making reads that come off as half baked. And no one wants a half baked pie, except maybe the stray cat that hangs out on my patio after dark. He’ll eat anything.
Scumlean

this post is actually disgusting, but i have to read cape's posts in the interim, either way blahhhh, early shade on cape who is the easiest mischop on this side of the mississippi is just not a good look for a player of scotty's stature and understanding

This post seems opportunistic.

Of all the people having suspicions on me, yours feels hollow

[VOTE: robyn] aubergine

of course, i only voted u because bereft did, i never suspected u until after reading ur iso

the only real reason was to see u under pressure, i'd never vote for a bad post and i know that i looked at your iso after i was already slightly conf bias

i was gonna unvote u a few posts ago because your read on cape and suspicion of jjj (before you tr him, but after too, mainly before) felt organic

anyway ur still town

Does not compute.

You are basically admitting you are sheeping bereft and are not coming to conclusions on your own.

@Bereft i don’t know your relationship with Robyn, but do you feel like you would be confident in determining if Robyn is pocketing you? Do you feel that this game, or no?

With both this and your sus on JJJ, why is sheeping scummy?

I don't think sheeping someone is scum indicative. My vote on you is partially sheep and I'm fine with that.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 1:19 pm

Cape90 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 1:21 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:15 pm [VOTE: Scotty] aubergine

I'm probably most comfortable with my vote here for the night.

did i miss something?

Yeah, I started getting sus on Scotty the page before and showed some of that.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 1:22 pm Tbh, I'm not all that confident about Scotty being wolf and I keep going back and forth on him. If we kill Scotty and we're wrong, we just lost a top posting town voice in a game that really needs them.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 1:31 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 1:25 pm I made an important point about Scotty in my blind interaction analysis. I’d love feedback on that in particular.

I've been burned pretty badly before by making the read of "they're not wolf because they're not teamed with anyone" so I take that with caution especially when there are inactive players. A lot of the unpairings you made I agree with, like Scotty/SVS or Scotty/LoRab not being teamed. Can you explain the Scotty/Bereft unpairing?

It does lower the odds of Scotty being scum somewhat but I don't take it as a strong point.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 1:49 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 1:45 pm

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 5:25 am

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 12:00 am

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 7:56 pm I think your being cleared way to easily just for posting a lot and being loud

We can resolve JJJ later. I almost never feel like he’s a good D1 vote unless every other player is, like, Aristotle


Tho tbh playing with a bunch of philosophers sounds like a fucking nightmare so nm

Y'all can but I have a severe allergic reaction to just deciding not to solve people and let a possible wolf take control without question for any extensive period of town

On the flip side, if Jay IS town, we lose a significant voice. Did you SEE the flip charts and excel spreadsheets he just posted? That’s gold.

You might think I’m being sarcastic, and I’m actually not. If he’s bad, I think it will become clearer as the days go on.

I have some of the same feelings about you. We have so many inactives this game that if we kill a high posting player and we're wrong we're just doing mafia's work for them and leaving the people that don't care alive.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 1:51 pm [VOTE: Michelle] aubergine

I'd rather go here. I have enough doubt on Scotty and I feel worse about Michelle than other low posters rn.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 11:51 am

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2023 11:34 pm Even though flutterby says they have a spirit interpretation on Candle (and, no offense, I grasp those interpretations with a sprinkle of pepper), I am slanted to trust them on Candle. I mean, I previously had Candle as a city interpretation, but it provides me comfort about Flutterby rolling out so self-assured about it now.

There was a ton of commotion in the preceding 30 moments. By my calculation, there was a 2-vote 5-method bind 15 min before Dusk. Whirlwind gushing in to randomly vote Seanzie and the spar with Wilgy are crimson banners. (Or crimson cards, lol)

You can’t reveal me wolves weren’t busy leading off of Rainbow. That gazed like a rescue to me, and it functioned.

I'm not going to try reading this.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 1:04 pm I feel like the obvious reason for the LC kill would be if SVS was town and Scotty was a wolf. What if Scotty cursed himself?

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 1:52 pm Robyn
Cape
JJJ
Bereft

Michelle
DrWilgy

DarlingMonroe
SVS
Rondo
ts account

LoRab
Scotty
Abigail

There's a ton going on in this spoiler, which is already telling to me (it's by far the most interactive review I have done so far). This level of attention is often not compatible. However, to be more thorough, let's follow the progression from Thunal's side. She started with a town read on Scotty relatively early. She sustained it for a while and then noticed him getting some heat from a few town reads of hers (including me). She explored that, offered a few protests, considered some stronger points, and ended up kind of siding with the anti-Scotty camp. She didn't end up voting for him at EOD. Do we believe she started by supporting her active teammate and then pivoted to distancing when the heat came, or do we think she followed a natural trajectory? I dangerously lean to the latter, because her progression was pretty damned similar to mine. The only hesitation I have is that she could have done that on purpose for a "mindmeld", but in the moment at least it felt reasonably authentic to me. Couple that with the sheer volume of interactivity here, and I lean toward dissociation.

From Scotty

Spoiler: show

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:52 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 11:09 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 8:08 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 8:04 pm Sooooo if I’m reading it right, Rupert’s money is responsible for the killing? So can they choose not to kill?

Probably. My interpretation is that they have to purchase kills (implying they can decline to do so), and that while Rupert is alive he is the only one that can kill. Then once he goes, any of the others can kill.

Important for any investigative roles out there to think about (i.e., tracker/watcher).

I didn't think about him being the only person who can kill, but that makes sense. That makes it much more important for Rupert to avoid sus than the other mafia and he might act differently because of that pressure. Kind of reminds me of John Doe in se7en where that role was important so SVS had pressure to go deep with it.

This was my thought but I was kinda sorta hoping to identify that trait later on in the day without influencing gameplay. But that’s fine

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 11:15 pm

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 11:09 pm I didn't think about him being the only person who can kill, but that makes sense. That makes it much more important for Rupert to avoid sus than the other mafia and he might act differently because of that pressure. Kind of reminds me of John Doe in se7en where that role was important so SVS had pressure to go deep with it.

Perhaps so. I'm not entirely sure the role is that important since they retain their kill without it. It's just the early killer (if that interpretation is accurate). I just noted that town doesn't seem to have any night actions that would interact directly with a killing mafia member other than an even night role blocker (no tracker or watcher). We have protections, but they don't mean anything with respect to who is killing. It might not matter than much, and it appears that it means close to nothing on Night 1. I could be overlooking something.

From my understanding, the Rupert role is the designated power of attorney, and if he dies, mafia lose the ability to cop and elim save.

Sounds pretty important to me

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 12:52 pm I’ve turned around on Cape- even tho he doesn’t have a lot of posts, what posts he has made are actual reads. Obviously I would like him to expand on them, but he’s making definitive reads

Thunal on the surface looks fine with their reads, if not making reads that come off as half baked. And no one wants a half baked pie, except maybe the stray cat that hangs out on my patio after dark. He’ll eat anything.
Scumlean

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:00 pm [VOTE: Thunal] aubergine
Cu cu cachoo

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 12:01 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 7:56 pm I feel like SVS would know if Scotty had secret tells on him or not and so lying about this wouldn't make much sense from Scotty.

This sort of meta read about Scotty suspecting SVS every game can go w/t either way or t/t. The only thing I think it's unlikely to be is w/w. If Scotty suspects SVS every game and both of them know it, mafia Scotty might go out of his way to suspect SVS again or he could change it to pocket SVS. SVS's post felt dramatic, with not much substance other than that it's freaking her out and I'd expect that post to go with a read or investigation on Scotty.

Thanks for the random defend

You do know I’m voting you atm right?

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 12:03 am

S~V~S wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 8:00 pm @Thunal33 “investigate”? I’m watching him and reading his posts. How else am I supposed to investigate? Give him a DNA test?

I am NOT the father

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 12:45 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 10:44 pm

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 10:40 pm This is something I actually think is towny for Scotty. Why would wolf Scotty weaken his push by saying he agreed with my reads? I feel like wolf Scotty would just go after me rather than giving credit to my reads especially if one was right. Even if they were both wrong I think he'd either push me harder or pocket me by finding common ground as mafia.

I read that the opposite way. It's not so much that he "waffled" on you or lost confidence about you, but rather he disproved his own read of you.

He called your reads of S~V~S and LoRab "half baked" based on frivolities (they "came out of nowhere" or were "not strong", whatever those really mean), and then he granted why they weren't half-baked... all while keeping his vote on you. In this instance, I don't care much about what "mafia Scotty" would or would not be likely to do from the standpoint of "how to handle Thunal", but rather I have to ask "was this ever a real read at all"?

Yep.

I think you’re looking ahead as if I only vote once in a game and dip. I found Thunal’s reads up to that point half baked, but they weren’t. I’m not even sure I suspect thunal anymore.

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 12:55 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:15 pm [VOTE: Scotty] aubergine

I'm probably most comfortable with my vote here for the night.

I see more of a progression on how you got to me, though now I’m still unsure if this is organic because you believe it or because you were trying to find a way to ease yourself into a safe vote

Leaning former…maybe

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 1:35 am Town read:
Cape
Long con
Thunal (uno reversal. I dunno. Really liked the involvement I’ve seen in my read back today. Seems solvy)

Town lean:
JJJ (should not be voted today, only a doofus would do it)
Princess Abigail (I also don’t feel like mafia PA comes after the juggernaut JJJ immediately, tho I must profess I don’t know what mafia PA looks like. I’m pretty sure I’ve never seen it)
bereft (ending response about Robyn)

Scumlean:
LoRab. (Only minorly Scumlean because I haven’t seen too much town equity atm)

Scumread:
Robyn

Others need to post more

I can’t make a good read on SVS at the moment- my paranoia is coming back inadvertently because she keeps wondering why I’m not paranoid. WELL THE PARANOIA IS IN TOWN AND FOUND AN AIR BNB

We’re still missing like 3 people that haven’t posted, which is…….bad. As I have said early on with JJJ, we need town to POST in a no-info dumping game.
@RondoDimBuckle @Seanzie @ts account

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 2:48 pm

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 1:08 pm

robyn wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 7:21 am wait fuck scotty might be town but i can’t explain this

robyn wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 7:22 am the reason is straight awful but it might be right

robyn wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 7:28 am actually ignore me

Here's a big reason why I don't agree with the robyn sus btw. They're playing unfiltered imo, and have sequences like this that are a lot easier to actually think of than to fake all the steps as a wolf.

Eh. If we’re looking at filtered v unfiltered as an indicator of alignment, then sure. But I don’t think it’s that difficult to have a throughline as wolf

But of the posts you just quoted, Robyn, in summary, posted:
-vague town read for vague reasons
-secret reason
-nm, take it back because [reasons]

That series of posts literally said nothing. I still don’t know who Robyn suspects or why

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 4:58 pm Ok I gotta go and have an appointment before eod

Current working theory is DM and LC are mafia.
Can throw SVS in there too, though DM’s push on SVS would be almost clearing of SVS if DM flips bad. 4th can be…LoRab. I could be wrong on the latter, with 3 missingno’s. TBD

If I still go over, it’s been real. Cape needs to get off his high horse but I still feel like he is in a genuine tunnel and not just pushing me for shits. Please be easy on him.
Thunal has been quite waffly on me all game, which makes me want to just townread them. It would be easier to just jump on my wagon, but I feel like they’re really considering if my actions/reads have been forced or whatever. Making a town.
Princess Abigail I have already talked about- town.

JJJ can be resolved in a couple days. Again, if he doesn’t have a pelt by D3, and he’s still alive, get rid of him. Please.

Others:
Bereft and Robyn are either both town or one is fooling the other. I could be convinced that one is pocketing the other. I do not townread bereft yet. I’m a little biased but I feel like he’s been blunt to a point regarding me.

Wilgy has made some questionable impressions in the thread- I feel like he’s picking the wagons, making one minor point about them, and then making broad reads based on it. It doesn’t feel like actual solving yet. Prime candidate for info tonite tho.

Michelle’s entrance into the game is…fine. I guess. Not much presence. prob town.

This is almost the perfect inverse of the previous spoiler. Scotty started harshly with an early vote, and by the end Thunal was in his top town tier. If we assume Scotty is mafia, this looks like someone trying out a mischop and determining that his best interests would be best served canceling that and town reading her instead. I doubt these two coordinated this perfect yin-yang progression on one another.

~~~

I'd call them unlikely teammates.

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 9:17 pm thats why I said it was improbable that Robyn/Cape/Bereft start shielding each other day 1 so hard. But not unlikely.

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 9:16 pm

Bereft wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 9:14 pm I dont really see how DM/Scotty are partnered here.

Well I really hate how scotty has been trying to push me and you and DM just keeps giving me weird vibes. What about Thunal/Scotty? or Scotty/X+1?

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 9:15 pm @robyn I have to admit my faith was shook last night. I dont understand why bereft is town now. I had a whole crisis of if I flip on you today but I decided Ive already lost if you are wolf so I have to accept you and cape are town but bereft is not who I thought he is. There is a second option but I need some assurance

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2023 2:46 pm
-makes a weird assertion that she saw something in Robyn calling cape/bereft town. That makes no sense. I mean, cape/Robyn all but claimed that they’re masons, so that as given. But bereft once again being pushed as noble for associations rings hollow to me. Unless he’s exactly the cop. But why would mafia leave cop alive N1 if they thought that was the case? Makes no sense.

robyn wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 9:02 pm yeah i wonder what @Thunal33 thinks

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 9:02 pm @☆Princess Abigail☆ are you aware of anything new?

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 9:01 pm

robyn wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 8:52 pm broooo why am i alive

That is a very good question and you should read my mind

Bereft wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 7:44 pm I do think the most plausible explanation for the lack of death is a save on Robyn.

Other options seem less likely on a probability basis.

That is all I have to say on that.

robyn wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 8:54 pm i'm gonna sleep and blah, whatever, somethings wrong here

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 8:53 pm

Bereft wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 8:49 pm Why in the everlasting $%#! was there a Neon wagon yesterday. I was checked out and didn't read like 2 pages in the middle, but I did not see how ridiculous this was until backreading.

Because…everything she was saying was suspicious.

But I think I’ve turned around on her too

Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:31 pm

DarlingMonroe wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:30 pm hopefully michelle is scum

I m not.!!!!!

Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:13 pm

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:08 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:52 pm

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:48 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 5:06 pm

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 5:04 pm

S~V~S wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:55 am And if you think that "pairs us", oh well

Actually, I think the opposite. From what I know of SVS I really don't think she'd use a teammate's irl availability to shield her.

I think that’s NAI (individually and interactively).

Why do you think it's NAI?

A lot of my stronger town tells are because I don't think the person would even have the thought as mafia.

I think that was one of those moments where Michelle said reasoning mafia wouldn't even think of. I don't see Michelle as someone who has as in-depth reasoning as scum and absolutely would make that kind of read as a snap take and leave it. The fact that she considered all this history with this read in particular, an easy townread on the scariest player in the game, I think is something scum Michelle wouldn't do. It's the kind of read that would be an afterthought as scum.

Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 1:38 am
Your conclusion was and is rushed and limited by the fact I didn't have time to explain it at all.
I started to play 5 years ago as noob player, with low English reading/writing skills, but with a life experience who let me the possibility to understand things unspoken behind the words. It felt thrilling to find words to defend myself while I was accused of being the bad guy. As mafia, I didn't even have to do much because my mafia rands were not many so my start in forum mafia was to be villager again and again.
My homie who restarted the mafia section in our forum sent me to MU to play the Mentor mentee game in january 2019. My mentor is a legendary player and he mentored me after playing 12 years of mafia.
I was always paranoid playing with Momstrman, he is now retired, maybe turbo-ing from time to time, but at one moment I learned to read him by a small trick.
Because he is retired and also because he is not a Syndicate regular I can tell you about this trick, otherwise I hate to show my shortcuts for reading someone.
My mentor was always mentoring town when he was town giving advice for the play in general. As mafia he wasn't doing it. And I started to notice that at other very strong players as well.
You were doing it in our finale game and your start here made me write that post because I considered your advice useful for town.
I don't even believe it's the easiest town read you ever had. It's just a take I posted to see what feedback I receive from it. You speculated the rest. Made from it more than it was, imaginated the omgua when I said it's not set in stone.
A read made by game experience can be a bad or a good read, and i am always starting somewhere where an idea pops in my head, which is exactly what I did with the town read on you.

I think S~V~s has a general policy that she will endorse no matter who it is (and she's probably a bit more likely still with oldschooler posters like LoRab). I don't think it matters what alignment either of them are. It's part of her game philosophy.

The primary reason I don't share your confidence about that Michelle read is that I know with certainty that I have provided explanations like that as mafia. Mafia can definitely think of it, and indeed that's something I may even emphasize as mafia. Sometimes a narrative is sellable as a story, and you can be sure that I will capitalize on that as a wolf. I don't know really if that's in Michelle's playbook, but I know it's in mine. I am sure she is telling the truth, but I don't think it means much.

I'm also looking at it from the POV of Michelle specifically. She fooled me as a spectator and I looked at that scum game to find ways to read her, and I found that she was a bit more one-sided and oriented to survive. I don't think she would think of that as mafia and I also think her approach to the game would be different. More picking a target and pushing it, like continuing the OMGUS of you the whole time or picking someone else for the day.

The desire to survivie is not AI per se
Speccing a game =/= playing and you should know it

Also don't you know I am fighting for my life as town?

DarlingMonroe wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 5:23 pm yeah, bereft/michelle/lorab/svs is where I am at for wolves

and it seems town has gotten it together with votes on all of them... and them not voting for each other or for townies is what is convincing me

Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 2:46 am

Bereft wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 8:59 pm Can we go back to being all chummy and acting like the game's over like we were yesterday when it wasn't even, 'cause the game's not gonna suddenly become more exciting. And I'm saying this knowing that I'm going to be the one around when we're down 2-3 mafia.

This looks a perspective slip but since robyn said so convinced they're in town core that means there's something else and I think I get it