The Syndicate

Long Con wrote:

Fredwood wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Fredwood wrote:Long Con's narrative just makes no sense to me in general. From what I've seen him as scum, I guess I wouldn't be surprised if he deflected his own teammates pressure of who they think is opposite Don, only to resume pressure later. It also wouldn't surprise me if he was a Reaper, knew Vega was a safe claim and then tried to pin Epi in a different way.

What about my "narrative" doesn't make sense to you?

The narrative that you are Cerberus.

So do you want to make sense of the Long Con is Cerberus narrative for me?

Actually, it's funny. I started out in Mafia on the now-defunct Lostpedia Forums. My original name there was Cerberus, but I got banned and came back as Long Con.

I miss these times.
And being alive.

Immortal_Raven wrote:Whelp, I was wrong about gfish again. Damnit.

Still not sure why Wilgy has it in his head that I'm somehow gfish's teammate. As much as I defended gfish, it was more about not liking Wilgy's read on gfish than outright defense. And then Wilgy did other stuff to piss me off like deliberately twisting what I said. Anyhow, I need to take a larger view as there are other players here.

If there's a connection between myself and Dom, I'm unaware of it. When did someone dream that up.

JoH is reading Civ to me. He's trying to respond to too many folks right now. He could sit back and let people go after others but he's trying a lot to dissuade suspicion when he doesn't need to. That reads more strongly Civ than either scum team in my book.

If we're guessing at gfish's teammates, Long Con and Silver fit for me. Silver is all over the board, very inconsistent. Long Con seemed to defend me and looking at my overall play, I think he's a scummer banking on me being Civ (I am) and looking good for not going after me.

Epignosis wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote: Dom - Is like a mix of Epi and Llama and it's fun.

You have no idea how much I want to put this in my signature.

Adam wrote:

Dom wrote:Why Adam Might Be Cerberus

Adam, leading up to gfish's lynch, made five posts in which he mentioned gfish.

Post #1: A Read List where he lists him as a civ read.

Here, he takes the side of gfish against epignosis.

"my inclination is that gfish is town"

With very little explanation, his read switches to bad.

His vote on gfish

It's not very little explanation.

I laid it out in an earlier post. If there were only one mafia, a scum gfish would not have come out with the RB against Epi. But in a two mafia game, he would definitely do that if he thought he found someone on the other scum team. A possibly-Reaper aligned neutral fits that.

After Epi's tuck and roll claim was brought to light, and I thought Epi was town, I assumed gfish was also town, because I couldn't see mafia gfish going after a townie that hard on a RB. I assumed gfish was town that made a mistake. When it turned out Epi is a possibly town-hostile neutral, it made me think gfish is more likely scum, because scum gfish will make a big play to try and lynch rival scum and earn himself town cred.
What do we think?

Adam wrote:

Adam wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:

Adam wrote:

DrWilgy wrote: How does that work in this environment?

I'm not entirely sure yet. That's really the fun of a crossover game, isn't it?

So, now instead of explaining the wagon with the most votes as a pressure, how about you tell me what you think of Gfish and Nifty? How do you feel about them being the only 2 voting with you?

They're both playing as I expect them to. Nifty's gotten a lot better recently with his tells and behaving consistently no matter his alignment. I started off reading him a little on the scum side, but I don't know if that's recency bias or not. Gfish has been playing loud, but nothing he's done so far is inconsistent with how he would play as town. He also tends to intentionally play as a scum-seeming townie, which provides him with cover when he's bad.

This role block of Epi tells me: Someone definitely role blocked (or attempted to role block) Epi

I see multiple scenarios for how gfish would act
1) If gfish was a town RB, I would expect him to call out Epi, especially if it was a one-shot RB
2) If gfish was mafia in a game with only one mafia, I don't think he would out the target of his RB because he knows it would be town
3) In this game with two mafias, and gfish was on one of the two mafias and thought he stopped the opposing mafia's kill with a RB, he would definitely fight full force to get that player lynched and be a successful scum hunter.

If in the end gfish had not backed off of Epi, I think he would be mafia, but based on how easily he let it go once Epi claimed, my inclination is that gfish is town.

This first post took place after Epi had (hint)claimed town and before he claimed Geth. It was an analysis made on the belief that Epignosis was town.

Adam wrote:Fred is taking the lead as confirmed town and I like it.

Epi being non-town makes me suspect gfish a little more. Scum gfish only makes the blocked kill gambit if he thinks he's caught other scum.

I like Epi's gambit. Those pushing for his lynch now are most likely Cerberus, I'm thinking. Easy non-mafia lynch.

Dom seems extraordinarily focused on Jack. Wilgy seems almost as focused on gfish. I feel like gfish and Jack haven't interacted as much as on Day 2 as on Day 1. Possibly teammates? I could definitely see a mafia with Jack and gfish going for cbob night 1.
Not sure how I feel about Dom. Wilgy seems townish to me. I also like S~V~S's play so far.

I like that TSP is getting in the game a bit. I haven't seen much from sprityo but what I'm seen feels civ. Dyslexicon seems less involved today than yesterday. nutella I'm still unsure about. I also haven't seen mp much today.

I don't like that Silver hasn't contributed much of anything so far. I like Fred's analysis of that situation.

This second post is after Epi revealed as Geth. The fact that the player gfish was gunning for was non-town made it far more likely in my eyes that gfish's mafia discovered Epi was not town and wanted to lynch him.

If I were gfish's Cerberus teammate, I would not have so easily backed off Epi in the first place if I thought he was lying about being town, and I would have jumped right back onto Epi's train when it turned out he was Geth. Most of the day was spent with the largest trains on Jack and Epignosis, and it would have been really easy and justified for me to park on the Epi train and stay there, but I never did. If I was Cerberus, I would absolutely want Geth gone and pushing for it. It's such an easy case to make as Cerberus. Gfish's teammates are almost assuredly voting for Epignosis after he came out as Geth.

Golden wrote:WTF. Epignosis is a hydra account. Wikipedia says so.

Dyslexicon wrote: People I want to get to know better:
Dom - Is like a mix of Epi and Llama and it's fun.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Dom, this better be the last I hear about your stupid rainbow theory. If you ask me any of these questions again for the rest of this game, I will link you to this post.

Dom wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:
Dom's logic goes:
Bad assumption->Therefore Jack is lying->Therefore Jack is bad. He's been stuck there ever since.

Use specifics to show this.

Here is you making an assumption, that I did not make a rainbow in the quick reply.

Spoiler: show

Dom wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Fuuuuu!

Syndicate saves full editor posts but not quick reply ones if the mobile page reloads.

I keep losing content.

I had a cheeky rainbow and everything.

That's some bullshit.
You made a rainbow list in the quick reply?

bad.

Here is you clarifying this assumption, that I did not in fact make a colored rainbow in the quick reply because you think using hexcode is freaking impossible in the quick reply.

Spoiler: show

Dom wrote:POLL: Do you think Jack was really making a fucking rainbow list, using color codes that are all in HEX (right-- that's HEX right?) in quick reply?
That sounds like some serious bullshit to me.

Dom wrote:Would you really use manual hex codes to make a rainbow list?

But here's the thing. I never said the rainbow was colored in hexcodes. In fact, most of my rainbows are black and white, as seen here.

Spoiler: show

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:@SVS
http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthrea ... ost8832465
http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthrea ... ost8833863
http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthrea ... ost8829875
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 67#p356067

And of course the post you quoted, one of the rainbows was colored (probably on mobile) and the other was not (probably on PC).

The "rainbow lie" arguement is without merit. I'm more than capable of providing a "rainbow list" without color and the core of the argument is that I didn't actually make a rainbow list in the quick reply because that would have meant doing it without color.

Dom's logic goes:
Bad assumption->Therefore Jack is lying->Therefore Jack is bad. He's been stuck there ever since.

Your logic goes:
Bad assumption->Therefore Jack is lying->Jack is lying to act like he's contributing when he's not->Therefore Jack is bad.

But you know this because you quoted the last part of my post and ignored the first part.

I feel like you are purposely being dense. Quoting half of my post and then asking a question that is literally explained in the other half of the same post. It is super annoying.


So there's that. You wrongly assume I claimed to make a hexcode rainbow. Thus, I was lying. Thus I was scum.

This is in contrast to SVS, who came in and said my Nutella case made no sense for reasons that made it clear she hadn't actually read my Nutella case. Then, when this was explained, she stayed voting for me and refused to say why.

1. Why do you think nutella is suspicious?

Because she was supa town in Phenon and has done squat, here. She's not hunting. She's not answering questions.

She previously pinged me by saying she town read Bob, Gfish and me after I had spent all day fighting with Bob and Gfish. I had trouble believing that you could believe my content but also think I was wrong, particularly after playing one game with me and zero games with Bob and GFish. Upon reread, Nutella said she slightly read me as town so...not as bad as I initially thought. Not worth being as aggressive as I was. Still not great.

2. Why do you excuse MP?

Cause I liked his day one a lot. He hasn't said anything that I found dishonest. He also made it clear that he understood my Nutella case and thought it was weak.

This is in contrast to SVS, who did not understand my Nutella case.

3. Why did you deflect answers to these questions when I asked them earlier?

Initially, I deflected because I thought your rainbow theory was totally ridiculous. I didn't know you thought I claimed to have made a hex colored rainbow list. It is reasonable to think I did based on your perspective.

I made clear that I misunderstood you here.

Spoiler: show

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Dom wrote:Would you really use manual hex codes to make a rainbow list?

Oh. That's what this is about?

The rainbow I actually posted isn't colored.

Nor are my Realms ones (though I usually point out yellows start here, oranges start here, etc) because yellow text doesn't show up well on the Realms forum background.

So no, I didn't use manual hex codes to create a colored rainbow list in quick reply. I made a list of players in order of trust to suspect and put in comments. Didn't quite finish. Didn't select all + copy. Page reloaded and I lost it.

However, you've continued to harp on the rainbow thing, long after I explained it. What am I supposed to do? Keep repeating the same thing? If you're not gonna read in the first time or the second time, why bother say it a third time? It's not gonna convince you.

Furthermore, you've continually used aggressively worded questions and statements like "Why are you so suspicious?" and "Why do you keep deflecting instead of answering my questions?" even while I've answered those same questions in other posts, sometimes aimed at other people.

An unconvinceable guy asking me questions I've already answered? Why would I bother engaging with you? If you wanted these answers, you could have ISOed me. I said so here.

Spoiler: show

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:I'm pretty sure if Dom is town and would both ISO me and attempt to evaluate my alignment instead of tunnel, he would find that I've answered every question he's asked (usually prior to him asking).

If he would state his questions, we could reset. Instead, he harps on me not answering when I'm pretty sure I have. In particular, the questions regarding what I meant by "rainbow" and the Nut fish/Bob/Jack reads have been answered. Easily found in the ISO.

4. Why did you say you misunderstood my allegations against you, but then also argue that they have been answered and are bullshit/loaded/etc?

I initially thought they were bullshit because I didn't understand the hex thing. I then explained what I actually meant and provided evidence that my rainbow posts are often made entirely of white text. You continued to ask about it. At that point, the question HAD been answered. The theory is bullshit. It's wrong. Obviously. I've posted links to a half dozen black/white text rainbows. If you're unconvinced, you're tunneling. If others are unconvinced, they're lying. Hence, bullshit.

5. You suspect Silver Lantern. I have expressed concerns (based on your posts, you haven't read them). Why is silver lantern more likely to be bad than you?

Well, I am town based on my role PM.

I am not reaver based on trying to kill Epi for about half the day while also trying to kill Silver (who pointedly did not want to lynch Epi but didn't say why) and while Wigly (who was also unwilling to lynch Epi) kept threatening to kill me. So if I want to kill a bot and all the bot's friends want to kill me....I'm not a bot.

I'm not Cerberus because if I was Cerberus, I wouldn't have switched over to GFish. A Geth or reaver don lynch would have made me happy. No reason to bus a teammate who had 2 or 3 votes on him at the time.

So I'm not Cerberus and I'm not a Reaver. I must be town or at least neutral, right? You worried about me winning as LMS? With all these people after my head? Best to just assume I'm town and not worry about it.

As for Silver, here is my case against him. Summarized, he's acting like scum Silver, not town Silver. He's going through the motions, taking easy ways out, not explaining himself. He's throwing fits but they feel forced. He's not doing anything to help the town because he's not town. He also refused to vote Epi or GFish.
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... er#p357024
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... er#p356785
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... er#p356734
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... er#p356882
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... er#p355632
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... er#p356076
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... er#p356238
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... er#p356295

6. Do you think it's good policy to win as a civ to say, "I don't see the merit in engaging with you" to someone who suspects you? If so, why?

It can be, if there is no merit in engaging with someone. Suppose God told you to vote for me no matter what and you never made a single decent point against me. What would be gained by addressing your non accusations in this situation? I'm not convincing you. I'm not convincing anyone else. It's just a distraction.

Indeed, some players have said I have spent too much time messing around with you as is.

7. You have criticized others for being weak and vague. Please point to your own posts in which you have been strong and specific.

You can check my above linked posts about Silver. I have been very specific. Strong is subjective but all of my rainbows have been commited. I'm not being wishy washy. Most players have their place and a reason for them in my rainbows. You can find my rainbows on your own, right? I don't need to link you to them?

8. What didn't you like about nutella's answers to your questions and why do they make her bad?

Nutella never answered my questions. This doesn't necessarily make her bad but it's a bad look.





Good enough? I'd like to ask you some questions but my priority is never having to come back to this line of questioning again because it is super frustrating and I just can't do it on my phone.

DrWilgy wrote:@Dom - My suspicion on Nut is just there because she hasn't contributed enough for me to say otherwise. She's not a Cerberus, and I don't trust her yet... So Reaper!

@EVERYONE
I'm tired of this Judge Judy bullshit. I need from each player, in only 3 sentences minimum, who are GFish's teammates and why.

My own -
LC and Raven are GFish's teammates. LC for his interactions with Epi during the past cycle. Raven for Gfish's "out of left field" question, and acceptance of sub-par answers (IMO).

I think the fastest way for us to deal with Cerberus is to tie up both LC and Raven. Lay them both down so their heads are relatively on top of each other, then drop a really, really, heavy rock on both of their heads. There will be a crunch, then a host message that Cerberus has been womp womp'd.

linki - neat!

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Dom wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:@Dom

If you magically knew I was town, who would you vote for today and why?

I know you don't know this. Humor me.

....kindly read my posts, dude. I have expressed unease about other players. Just because you don't remember them doesn't mean they don't exist. Off the top of my head, I have expressed distrust of LC, gfish, and Silver Lantern.
Counter: Instead of making me the center of attention (someone you claim to town read), why don't you focus your attention on someone you actually scum read?
And why aren't you voting SVS if she's so bad?

To be honest, neither of us are looking at each other's posts about other people enough.

I've been frustrated with you and seen you as not worth engaging. You've been tunneling on me and assuming my mouth is a cow's anus.

Your other suspects are noted. Can you give me more about LC and Silver? I think LC is town and Silver is bad. Who do you think is more likely to be bad? Why? What team do you suspect them to be on.

As for me not voting SVS, it's cause SVS was my....fourth biggest suspect? Silver, Gfish, Epi. Then SVS, unless I'm forgetting someone. I only have but one vote to give.

Fredwood wrote:

Dom wrote:

Fredwood wrote:
1. Dom, Spirit, and SVS. What specifically do you need to be happy with Jack...at this point is there anything that he can say that won't make you want to lynch him today or any other day? I doubt, even if you caught him, he's likely to admit to being Scum. I'm not sold on Jack's civness either, I want to give him the benefit of the doubt for his busy at work explanation, but if he's going to be a continuing distraction for a large portion of the players...

Jack could start pushing theories and explaining himself rather than deflecting all of my questions and acusations and refusing to even engage with me. That would be a start.
Why do you want me to move my vote?

I didn't, I was seeing how likely this would be an ongoing suspicion.

DrWilgy wrote:Reads -

Likely Cerberus:
LC, MP, TSP, Silver... maaaaybe Sprit

Likely Reaper:
JoH, Nut, Raven

If I die tonight, I'd like to see LC and JoH lynched next. JoH's behavior before Gfish took off wasn't indicative of a civilian.

I would like to know Raven's correlation to Dom.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Because based on Epi's role, he probably doesn't have btsc with the other Reapers.

It's not as much of a loss than yourself, especially when you are unsure of Epi.

JoH, I don't know the case on you. What I do know is that under pressure you didn't act like a dying civ.

I wasn't a dying civ.

Epi had more votes and then GFish had more votes.

There were three players (Dom, Silver and SVS) who were not interested in having an honest discussion about my alignment. There were two players (Sprityo and Fred, who fell off and was also confirmed) that said they didn't even scumread me but just wouldn't be able to trust me. There were also TSP and GFish who didn't vote for me until it was too late but they didn't provide real reading for voting for me over Epi or GFish.

Six votes (not counting Fred). Zero convincing reasons. Two alternative lynch targets were were obviously bad.

I was never in danger of being lynched and if I was wrong about that? The story writes itself. "Scum follows bullshit reasoning to save their buddy. Refuses to give reasons for lynching a townie. Gets caught and loses game."


Out of curiosity, how do you think a dying civ is supposed to act?

nutella wrote:Awesome result! I'll do some investigating later to see if I can figure out who might be gfish's teammates, I bet there's a busser or two in the last few votes. Maybe Adam, he voted with no real explanation and had some suspicious interaction with gfish earlier re: voting for epi.

Wilgy, why do you think I'm reaper??
Ftr I think Silver is probably reaper especially after what he said about epi siding with town.

Epignosis wrote:

gfishfunk wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Epi, please help the civs and vote Jack.

Please don't punish all the civs for afew being wrong/misguided/mafia.

Epignosis wrote:I'm not punishing anybody. I'm also not doing their jobs for them.

DrWilgy wrote:But you aren't allowing those who at least are trying to take a chaince fpr the gain of info to be rewarded by throwing a sideline vote.

What's this? An admitted neutral is not helping out the town? I'm shocked! SHOCKED I SAY!

Wait wait wait.

If I vote Jack, I'm helping the civilians.

But but but but...

You're not voting Jack.

DrWilgy wrote:

Epignosis wrote:I don't know, Wilgy. You got my alignment wrong this time.

Implying I care about that at this point.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Wigly, does Dom basing his vote off a misunderstanding of what I meant by "rainbow", SVS misunderstanding my case on Nutella yesterday and then refusing to answer my questions or reevaluate her read on me in light of this while doing no scumhunting at all and Silver's lack of townie behavior not give you pause? What about Fred think I'm a distraction more than I'm scum and voting for that reason?

DrWilgy wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Consider me confused then. Lol.

I would say that this makes gfish's claim sound like BS, but why would gfish lie about this in such blatantly illogical form if mafia? That's what I don't understand.

MP, just bus him. Let's not draw this out.

MovingPictures07 wrote:I've never heard "bus" in any other mafia context.

Guess I can join this fish wagon thing. I'm cool with it.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Hey Epi, why did you claim indy? Remember what happened to me when I circumstantially claimed Tyler Durden the indy in GoC '14?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:@Dom

If you magically knew I was town, who would you vote for today and why?

I know you don't know this. Humor me.

S~V~S wrote:
At first I was probably a misguided civvie, now I am suddenly bad? I am far from ignoring you. And you are just No U-ing Dom, and now me. I play differently than most people, I am sorry you think it is lazy. It is not.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:
Dom's logic goes:
Bad assumption->Therefore Jack is lying->Therefore Jack is bad. He's been stuck there ever since.

Long Con wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Third request: Restate your concerns or questions without weasel words and I will address them.

Dom, I can't remember your questions either. This shit between you and Jack feels completely muddled.

Please Please Please just start over a little with a SIMPLE post that is structured precisely like this:

Jack, I have some questions for you.

1. <insert question 1 here>
2. <insert question 2 here>
...and so on.

Then, Jack, you make a post that just answers the questions, by the numbers, without equivocating, deflecting, or trying to render moot. Answer them as completely as possible.

Fucking finish this, guys.

Fredwood wrote:
1. Dom, Spirit, and SVS. What specifically do you need to be happy with Jack...at this point is there anything that he can say that won't make you want to lynch him today or any other day? I doubt, even if you caught him, he's likely to admit to being Scum. I'm not sold on Jack's civness either, I want to give him the benefit of the doubt for his busy at work explanation, but if he's going to be a continuing distraction for a large portion of the players...

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:@Dom

It was a joke. Obviously. Using a joke and my actual statement and then saying I am being inconsistent is intellectually dishonest. I expect better of you.

Am I not addressing Rainbowgate or are we stuck on Rainbowgate because I want us to be? It can't be both.

For the second time, ask me a non leading question and I will answer you. For the fourth or so time, I'm not going to discuss this while you're being unreasonable.

You don't think I've made a rainbow since? ISO me. You are wrong. It was uncolored. Or check the link I provided for baddie Silver play. There are several uncolored rainbows, there.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:I'm pretty sure if Dom is town and would both ISO me and attempt to evaluate my alignment instead of tunnel, he would find that I've answered every question he's asked (usually prior to him asking).

If he would state his questions, we could reset. Instead, he harps on me not answering when I'm pretty sure I have. In particular, the questions regarding what I meant by "rainbow" and the Nut fish/Bob/Jack reads have been answered. Easily found in the ISO.

TonyStarkPrime wrote:

Dom wrote:

TonyStarkPrime wrote:
There are many reasons to distrust Jack, but I feel that this whole rainbow issue seems off for both of you.

Then why don't you read up on the other stuff I've said on Jack like how he has an inconherent position on nutella. He excuses MP's behavior that is similar. When confronted with this, he says nutella is too vague. When asked for details on this he just reiterates himself and says "No".

So like... wanna address the points made on your teammate or do you wanna just pretend like my entire case is about a fucking rainbow list that was a test for Jack anyway? One that he failed miserably.

I know. I am saying those are the valid reasons to distrust Jack. I just don't understand why you even brought up the rainbow list in the first place.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: I think the rainbow thing is off for Dom because he is mentioning it with alarming frequency. I think it is a little off for you because you almost use it as an excuse to avoid answering questions. I don't understand the benefit of either of you bringing it up, so I don't see why it keeps going on.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Silver Lantern wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:@Silver

You're playing much more like bad you and much less like good you. I know you'd have no qualms about killing Bob on night one.

Why should I not vote for you and who should I vote for instead?

I have absolutely no qualms about killing Bob (or anyone else) on any night and I have zero problems admitting that.

Obviously many of the HCR folks are assuming I am scum, and I have no problems with it cause if it keeps other townies alive, I am for it. You know the best argument for me being town? I am still alive. You'd think that with 2 mafias whichever mafia I was not on would have hit me last night. But since I am town, both sides assumed the other mafia would kill me, and neither did. That's why I am town.

Show of hands. Does a single other player agree with this? That Silver Lantern is most dangerous player and obvious townie so both mafias assumed he'd be killed by the other?

Give me a real reason why you're town.

Silver Lantern wrote: You're one of my top scum reads. I don't like how you have failed to address Dom's accusation, and I see your pointing the finger at me as nothing more than trying to take interest off yourself. SVS's continual pushing on me with her silly argument, time after time after time after time is also a huge red flag.

Explain to me Dom's accusation that I failed to address in your own words. No hidding behind other players. You want to accuse me? Accuse me. Don't say Dom is accusing me. Why do you think I'm scum?

Silver Lantern wrote:

Dom wrote:POLL: Do you think Jack was really making a fucking rainbow list, using color codes that are all in HEX (right-- that's HEX right?) in quick reply?
That sounds like some serious bullshit to me.

I like your aggresiveness Dom, and I too think Jack is playing scummy, but I think you need to consider that some of us HCR folks do not know the mechanics and rules of posting here and perhaps you cannot attribute such meta things to us. For example, I have no idea what HEX is.

Is it not possible to do the HEX thing in quick reply? Though I do know that Jack has played here a few games, so that's something to consider.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

TonyStarkPrime wrote:
There are many reasons to distrust Jack, but I feel that this whole rainbow issue seems off for both of you.

DrWilgy wrote:Hey Dom, is Raven your teammate?

Raven mentioned you once as a civ read w/o any context nor prior interaction. I'd bet afew bucks that if he's bad, you're his teammate.

Fredwood wrote:

Dom wrote:

Fredwood wrote: Dom - I really have no clue. The bulldoggedness about Jack's "rainbow slip" feels silly. But unless someone can tell me otherwise, it feels like tunneling and tunneling is kind of townie no? If I'm wrong let me know and I'll change my assessment on tunneling, I never really know what to make of it, INH tunneled on Diz last game and he was a neutral.

y ignore half of case?

To clarify, I'm not ignoring half the case, the fact that the whole Rainbow thing IS half your case is confusing to me. Just doesn't make much sense as a line of questioning/pressure. Jack is clearly on my ping list.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Dom wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Dom wrote:gfish when did you change your vote?


jack-- wh ywon't you play ball with me?

Originally because I misunderstood your beef and thought you were being ridiculous.

Currently cause I'm at work and swamped. Also you quoted like five people and I'm on mobile.

We can play later, though.

wait you simply misunderstood my allegations on nutella/mp?
elaborate and explain pls

I misunderstood your "he didn't make a rainbow" bit.

I thought you meant you were just so sure I was lying that you knew I was lying about making a rainbow. I considered you unconvincable and thus not worth engaging.

Rather, you thought I was saying I used hexcode (or whatever it's called) to make a colored rainbow in the quickreply and you thought I wouldn't do that so you thought I was lying. You're right that I didn't do that. I understand why you even thought I was claiming that. But it's pretty obvious that I wasn't claiming that.

Was that not clear?

Fredwood wrote: Dom - I really have no clue. The bulldoggedness about Jack's "rainbow slip" feels silly. But unless someone can tell me otherwise, it feels like tunneling and tunneling is kind of townie no? If I'm wrong let me know and I'll change my assessment on tunneling, I never really know what to make of it, INH tunneled on Diz last game and he was a neutral.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Dom wrote:gfish when did you change your vote?


jack-- wh ywon't you play ball with me?

Originally because I misunderstood your beef and thought you were being ridiculous.

Currently cause I'm at work and swamped. Also you quoted like five people and I'm on mobile.

We can play later, though.


@Nut

Did you ever answer my question from yesterday? Pretend it was asked in a less aggressive way.

Long Con wrote:

Fredwood wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:@LC

I agree with Nifty's meta analysis of the Bob kill. The last Hybridity aside, Realms players tend to kill threats. "Bob is smart and may catch us. Kill Bob. Link will get himself lynched eventually. Ignore Link at night." We may have discussed this during Phenom?

GFish's "I blocked Epi" play is a GFishian play. As town, he goes for this lead to potentially get scum. As scum, he goes for this to potentially catch opposing scum/mislynch and to look like town GFish. It's a null look, imo. But it's definitely not a bad look and I'd disagree with anyone who says this is a reach and therefore GFish is bad. Without looking at the player list, I lean towards GFish being a blocker. That is, he only does this as town if he really has a block and is significantly more likely to do this as scum if he (or a teammate) really blocked Epi.

I agree with your analysis on Fred. Fred is only scum if someone counterclaims Joker (unlikely) or if Bob's role was forged (also unlikely?).

Again I still disagree on the NK assesment of a N1 Bobkill. I don't see the kill strong players n1 meta as much anymore, because the meta shifted to protecting or info gathering on strong players n1. Now with the limited power structure of this game, maybe I can see killing the strongest player. But with as much Syndicate as Realms players and how the game is also geared towards their style of play I don't know if people would consider the Bob the biggest threat to them in this game anyway because of the strength of the Syndicate players, maybe they view Bob as the strongest Realms player and then NK him, but that feels like a shitty reason to kill Bob N1 in a crossover. Like I said, I still feel Bob was the most neutral or random kill they could come up with.

I also believe this is likely:

"Who should we kill?"
"People think Bob is Civ, so he won't be getting lynched."
"Good call, let's kill him."

Maybe both teams targeted Bob as well.

gfishfunk wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Were you that confident in your read of Epi? That was the important one.

Confident enough to use it. I wanted to interact with someone outside the realms. His posts right around end phase struck me as someone happy with the lynch and happy to not have his name attached. You can disagree with the read or with my ability to analyze, but its what I did.

S~V~S wrote:

Dom wrote:POLL: Do you think Jack was really making a fucking rainbow list, using color codes that are all in HEX (right-- that's HEX right?) in quick reply?
That sounds like some serious bullshit to me.

OK I myself suspect Jack, and his apparent refusal to talk to someone who is accusing him does not sit well, but why does this have bearing?

I am sure it does, or you would not have brought it up. What am I missing about his use of code specifically that makes him bad? I know Bea used to do colors with code on her Crackberry years ago since shortcuts didn't work.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Dom wrote:Would you really use manual hex codes to make a rainbow list?

Oh. That's what this is about?

The rainbow I actually posted isn't colored.

Nor are my Realms ones (though I usually point out yellows start here, oranges start here, etc) because yellow text doesn't show up well on the Realms forum background.

So no, I didn't use manual hex codes to create a colored rainbow list in quick reply. I made a list of players in order of trust to suspect and put in comments. Didn't quite finish. Didn't select all + copy. Page reloaded and I lost it.

DrWilgy wrote:

Dom wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:

Dom wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:I think it's safe to assume we will lynch a baddie if we choose either Gfish today, or Hazelnut Spread friend.

Discuss.

why

I think they are bad, what do you think?

i disagree on nutella

Y tho?

gfishfunk wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: REAPERS (3 roles)
They share behind the scenes communication. Win the game by eliminating the Alliance, Cerberus, and any hostile independents.
They kill on Nights 1, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 10, 12 (and so on with even-numbered nights)

CERBERUS (3 roles)
They share behind the scenes communication. Win the game by eliminating the Alliance, the Reapers, and any hostile independents.
They kill on Nights 1, 2, 4, 6, 7, 9, 11, 13 (and so on with odd-numbered nights)

Two kills on night 1.

DrWilgy wrote:My primary concern with Hazelnut is her lack of content and her civ read of me.

Past games quick glance
Phenon > Nut is Civ > Reads me bad
Currents > Nut is civ > Unsure of me
Here > Nut is unknown > Town reads me

This is also with her knowing that I still want my revenge from phenon. (I didn't get it in currents, and even made it known that I missed my chance). Makes me think she doesn't want to fight me.

Her uncertainty d1 however, is something I'm used to with her.

I'd like to know why Gfish would hard claim role blocker with no doctor.

Adam wrote:Jack and rainbow list controversy:

Why would he even lie about that?

He's been all about rainbow lists since I started playing mafia again ~6 months ago, and it doesn't particularly surprise me he'd do one in mobile and in quick reply.

Also, I'm not a big fan of using actual font colors, because the yellow unavoidably is impossible to read without highlighting the text.

Epignosis wrote:Here's something to chew on:

If I am bad and on a team, I'm usually not going to be the one carrying out the kill. Can you guess why?

But y'all go ahead with yay role blocks if you want to. Civilians are fucked if that's the operating procedure.

Epignosis wrote:Romance of the Three Kingdoms Day 1:

Epignosis wrote:Half of the field missed the vote. Nineteen people.

Romance of the Three Kingdoms Night 1:

Epignosis wrote:

Day 2: The Farmers of Hsiaop’ei are Troubled

雞和山羊

The death of Ahuinan, Meng Huo’s third ravine chief of Nanzhong, resulted in a series of misfortune for the farmers of Hsiaop’ei, because it was reported that Ahuinan was cut down in the vicinity of Hsiaop’ei. The misfortune happened all in one night. A band of distraught farmers sought the advice of one of the elders in that region, a learned man who had fathered seven sons and outlived all of them.

The first farmer approached holding a dead rooster. “Armed men came and slaughtered our chickens. They left behind feathers that do not belong to any of our animals.”

A second man came forward and produced the head of a goat. “Armed men came and slaughtered our goats. They left behind yellow cloth, which we do not wear.”

“This is a good omen,” observed the sage.

“How can you say this a good omen?” asked one of the men of Hsiaop’ei.

“Consider that both the barbarians of the south and the mystical rebels have visited your people in the span of the same night, and all of them are accounted for.”

No one has been killed. It is now Day 2. You have 48 hours and two votes each to decide who will be in the second duel.

What happened there?

nutella wrote:Dom doesn't suspect me? Something's wrong.

Gfish's claim of blocking Epi is intriguing. Still not sure whether to think Epi would be acting this recklessly zany if bad, but I suppose I wouldn't entirely put it past him.

DrWilgy wrote:

Dom wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:I think it's safe to assume we will lynch a baddie if we choose either Gfish today, or Hazelnut Spread friend.

Discuss.

why

I think they are bad, what do you think?

gfishfunk wrote:Right now, my topic scum pick is Epignosis for a simple reason.

Epi was pinging some of the syndicate and did not vote. I targeted Epi with a role block. Only one kill occurred last night, and there should have been two (see the roles in he beginning). With no doctor and no bodyguard, the lack of a kill is indicative of a role block.

DrWilgy wrote:I think it's safe to assume we will lynch a baddie if we choose either Gfish today, or Hazelnut Spread friend.

Discuss.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Dom wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:
Jesus Christ. If I didn't already know your town game makes no sense to me after Unfortunate Events...

Don't discredit me because I suspect you. Refute it with actual specifics. Don't complain that nutella is too vague but not provide specifics on why I'm wrong.

No.

You're claiming to magically know I lied about making a rainbow. You're either convinced I'm scum and there's nothing I can possibly do about that or you're pretending and your town play as seen in Unfortunate Events is so far off what I understand that I don't have any confidence in my ability to catch you.

You can vote for me if you like but I don't see the merit in engaging with you. I'll take my chances in surviving the day with one extra vote on me.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:
Jesus Christ. If I didn't already know your town game makes no sense to me after Unfortunate Events...

TonyStarkPrime wrote:JOH, especially as town, has a history of contradicting himself in his search for mafia. Any inconsistency definitely needs to be looked into, and I think SVS definitely has a valid question, but I tend to not put too much stock into how much Jack's statements contradict themselves and more into what his general sentiment is and what he thinks about the meta of the game.

Epignosis wrote:

Dom wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Dom wrote:

gfishfunk wrote:Here is an idea. (I post them as I think of them)

Post ONE player you think is likely town. Very simple. If you say yourself, I vote for you.

mine: colonialbob.

Epignosis

You surprise me.

why

You need a reason why I am surprised you think I'm good?

Ooookay mate.

TonyStarkPrime wrote:

Dom wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Hey JOH, let's talk. You have plenty of content but for some reason I can't sort you out. Convince me why I should town read you.

it's because he doens't have many coherent thoughts.

He never has coherent thoughts as town. This is almost a good enough reason.

Epignosis wrote:

Dom wrote:

gfishfunk wrote:Here is an idea. (I post them as I think of them)

Post ONE player you think is likely town. Very simple. If you say yourself, I vote for you.

mine: colonialbob.

Epignosis

You surprise me.

Long Con wrote:
Or was it a calculated ploy by Long Con, Archduke of Deception? A trap which you, Wilgy, have sprung... perhaps defused? Long Con feigns ignorance of baddie team structure in order to endear him to the hearts of sympathetic Civs who, truth be told, also hadn't realized there were two! Juicy!

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

nutella wrote:I already explained about Dom. Dys I just sort of auto trust and I like their participation thus far. I also get a pretty good vibe from SVS but she can be a sneaky feb. Bob and Gfish both I have mostly agreed with MP's assessments of (Bob reads like a supatown; Gfish I felt weird about a couple times with his focus on meta reads etc but like MP I've decided he's just coming from a different culture/idea of effective scumhunting/content generation.) You I get a similar feeling as in phenon but based on people's meta on you im not sure that it's alignment indicative.

This? It's pretty weak. Pretty vague. Doesn't talk one bit about content.

Auto trust and good vibes are also weak and vague.

This is not supatown Nut that I've seen. Tbf, maybe I'm expecting too much on Day One and her read on me ain't that strong on reread.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Hey JOH, let's talk. You have plenty of content but for some reason I can't sort you out. Convince me why I should town read you.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

I didn't like Nut's answer to my questions.

You didn't like my tone cause it sounded like an interrogation. It was meant to.

I don't see how you could townread Bob, GFish and me at the same time. Too much Bob content is aimed at me. Too much Jack content is aimed at GFish. I find Nut's reads dishonest/made up.

S~V~S wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:MP Rainbow #2

Spoiler: show

colonialbob
DrWilgy
S~V~S

gfishfunk
thellama73

Adam
CaptainNifty
Dyslexicon
Epignosis
Fredwood
Immortal_Raven
Jackofhearts2005
Long Con
nutella
Silver Lantern
sprityo
TonyStarkPrime

Dom

Willing to actually throw gfish into the very slight town reads because I think our different approaches to the game as well as a misunderstanding and some major brief tunneling on my part clouded my judgment; I feel alright about his approach to solving the game.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

gfishfunk wrote:

gfishfunk wrote:Here is an idea. (I post them as I think of them)

Post ONE player you think is likely town. Very simple. If you say yourself, I vote for you.

mine: colonialbob.

Choices for Most Town Read:

Silver Lantern - gfishfunk
Long Con - MovingPictures07
MovingPictures07 - DrWilgy
gfishfunk - colonialbob
thellama73 - Don't tell me what to do

People who have yet to respond:
Adam
CaptainNifty
colonialbob
Dom
DrWilgy
Dyslexicon
Epignosis
Fredwood
Immortal_Raven
Jackofhearts2005
nutella
sprityo
S~V~S
TonyStarkPrime

I guess I trust MP most.

Jack you list MP as your most trusted, but with the exception of Dom, his list is not that radically different from Nutellas. Why did her list draw the scorn, and his your most trusted ranking? MP greenlisted Bob and gfish too, which were two of the people you singled out on her list.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:My choices for already voted players are:
Dom
Epi
GFish
LC
Llama

My top suspects are:
Bob
Nut
(fairly large gap)
GFish
(additional fairly large gap)
Llama

Nobody else seems to be scum reading Bob or Nut and I'm not that frigging confident of my reads to push heavily, especially since there's a fair amount of suspicion based on very recent posts that may go unanswered at day end. I'll be voting GFish in a bit unless someone convinces me otherwise.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Fuuuuu!

Syndicate saves full editor posts but not quick reply ones if the mobile page reloads.

I keep losing content.

I had a cheeky rainbow and everything.

gfishfunk wrote:Here is an idea. (I post them as I think of them)

Post ONE player you think is likely town. Very simple. If you say yourself, I vote for you.

mine: colonialbob.