The Syndicate

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Sat Mar 04, 2023 1:03 am After trying to figure out porscha's role, I can now conidently declare that porscha is town. Hooray!

~sheep

Tell me more.

Btw in terms of me ‘making up a role’ I wish you’d asked about that when someone in my neighbourhood server was alive.

The name of the server is ‘inclusivity’.

Also, btw, I’d have had to come up with that name with no experience of nanook at all and Enders role title proved to be kind of a soft claim for me in its styling.

There is every possibility svs pandered to me by declaring a role name

Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:17 pm Me read some later or tomorrow when I'm off or whatever

In the meantime, please @ me with your guesses as to what my favorite number is. Hint: its 0-100

Whoever gets it correct wins a prize

Porsche, your opening post. You’ve now claimed ‘similar to ender’

Was this joke or real? If real, who got the prize?

Although to be fair the wolves couldn’t have known ender was going to die and a rondo kill might have assumed ender was there to push the elim on.

PoE pushes me to ‘Porscha had to be the solve’ tbh but I don’t want to confbias.

Rondo was the wrong kill.

But I do believe dizzys claim on the surface.

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Sat Mar 04, 2023 12:06 am

Golden wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 11:59 pm

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 11:55 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 11:51 pm

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 11:48 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 11:43 pm If Alison and Nutella were both there at once nutella would have had a substantial additional protection.

Choosing her after telling Alison I would was me getting cocky and my biggest mistake of the game.

really? that was your biggest mistake? and not "hey my dear SVS, want me to give you another day to live? ily boo "

-t

Nah, I still think I may have literally chosen the wolf kill that day.

Letting svs survive a day wasn’t a problem in the scheme of things.

*squints*

Squint away.

Or background check.

Go find a deepwolf game where I’m not clean as a whistle at lylo, without at least one if not too full busses under my belt.

I have been saying it all game. If you want to find a wolf you need to listen. I am not in my wolfrange. I have never been in my wolfrange this game.

I don’t leave big tells or connective tissue, at all. I drive the bus and I make sure my votes hit at the most clearing possible moment. I hit lylo with such an unimpeachable record no one can doubt my townie credentials.

I gave you a read of dizzy that absolutely describes why I’m on my town game.

Please… spending my time defending to you is a waste of what time I have.., I beg you, go do interactive reads. I think you will legitimately find a view that I’m wolf cannot be sustained.

i come from an era of mafia where truth-telling is either outright banned or heavily discouraged, so I ignore "I would never do x as a wolf" on principle even if it might be true

regardless, we're actively working through other worlds besides w!Golden. we're just picking your posts apart because we're assuming v!Sloonei and, tentatively, v!Dizzy (this is shaky af)

(since nobody has claimed kiwi, though, i personally am coming back around to w!dizzy)

I don’t think symmetry is a given and I don’t think we should be relying on it at lylo.

This goes for ‘there isn’t another kiwi’ as well as ‘American role power implies town’… American soup still feels believable.

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 11:55 pm tbh porscha looks the worst rn imo tbh fr fr

Porscha is the person who I know the least about my own reasons for townreading her.

Dizzy I know exactly why I townread them, but is the most likely candidate for me being emotionally blind.

I do not think there is a mafia of 12 people. If you are mafia, good game well played I just don’t see it.

From my perspective Porscha/dizzy is the PoE.

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 11:55 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 11:51 pm

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 11:48 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 11:43 pm If Alison and Nutella were both there at once nutella would have had a substantial additional protection.

Choosing her after telling Alison I would was me getting cocky and my biggest mistake of the game.

really? that was your biggest mistake? and not "hey my dear SVS, want me to give you another day to live? ily boo "

-t

Nah, I still think I may have literally chosen the wolf kill that day.

Letting svs survive a day wasn’t a problem in the scheme of things.

*squints*

Squint away.

Or background check.

Go find a deepwolf game where I’m not clean as a whistle at lylo, without at least one if not too full busses under my belt.

I have been saying it all game. If you want to find a wolf you need to listen. I am not in my wolfrange. I have never been in my wolfrange this game.

I don’t leave big tells or connective tissue, at all. I drive the bus and I make sure my votes hit at the most clearing possible moment. I hit lylo with such an unimpeachable record no one can doubt my townie credentials.

I gave you a read of dizzy that absolutely describes why I’m on my town game.

Please… spending my time defending to you is a waste of what time I have.., I beg you, go do interactive reads. I think you will legitimately find a view that I’m wolf cannot be sustained.

I mean, for one, me literally asking svs if she wants to survive another day in the thread would be an obvious non-paired tell in any world where we aren’t paranoid because we all townread each other.

If you think I’m wolfmates with svs you should really do interactive reading in both directions.

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 11:48 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 11:43 pm If Alison and Nutella were both there at once nutella would have had a substantial additional protection.

Choosing her after telling Alison I would was me getting cocky and my biggest mistake of the game.

really? that was your biggest mistake? and not "hey my dear SVS, want me to give you another day to live? ily boo "

-t

Nah, I still think I may have literally chosen the wolf kill that day.

Letting svs survive a day wasn’t a problem in the scheme of things.

PC… seriously, just go read back. Don’t ignore what I’ve said to you. I don’t believe the view I’m wolf is sustainable on a thorough read back.

If Alison and Nutella were both there at once nutella would have had a substantial additional protection.

Choosing her after telling Alison I would was me getting cocky and my biggest mistake of the game.

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 11:33 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 11:26 pm My role was an extremely powerful town-tool to prevent mafia kills and vig shots that I never actually got to use to its potential.

how did your town reads die, then

Nutella was for a different reason associated with the part of my role you don’t know, and the only pick I made while already having someone in the neighbourhood.

I wasn’t ok having my stuff redirected to kate but I did tell her up front ‘sorry about that part if it happens’ Kate was purely an opportunity to have someone to solve the game with who I knew I could trust.

The two people who died in my neighbourhood were Alison and Kate. Both of them while there was only one person there.

I couldn’t prevent kills on others until 2+ were there at once.

But I still think my Alison move was pretty slick

My role was an extremely powerful town-tool to prevent mafia kills and vig shots that I never actually got to use to its potential.

Also, Porscha, in direct response to ‘can I redirect off a neighbour’ I’ll go a bit further.

No I don’t redirect from my neighbours. Instead, in some circumstances I can stop a shot on them cold.

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 11:18 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 11:13 pm

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 11:10 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 11:03 pm

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 10:25 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 10:17 pm I’m not much for believing nk anaylsis is the best but ‘why did they pick rondo to kill’ is a meaningful question for me, or more pertinently ‘who would have killed rondo there’.

The unhelpful answer to that question is ‘frame ender’.

I neighboured ender btw. I spent plenty time in thread yesterday trying to ensure he wasn’t in the wolf kill pool.

why wouldn't you neighbour a slot that can survive your redirect?

why would you neighbour someone with the highest utility to town if they are also town?

You feeling left out?

I wanted to neighbour the person I wanted to solve.

explanation makes no sense but thanks for the reply i guess

It doesn’t make no sense. Ender was my top wolfread and you’re asking why I’d want to redirect a kill on me onto them because ‘what if they’re town’. It’s your line of thinking which is starting from the wrong spot.

And you neighbored Neon on N4. Because you wanted to redirect a kill on her too?

You also wanted to redirect a kill on nutella n2?

You also wanted to redirect a kill on Kate n3?

-t

I was fine with redirecting a kill on neon.
Nutella was for a different reason associated with the part of my role you don’t know, and the only pick I made while already having someone in the neighbourhood.

I wasn’t ok having my stuff redirected to kate but I did tell her up front ‘sorry about that part if it happens’ Kate was purely an opportunity to have someone to solve the game with who I knew I could trust.

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 10:39 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 9:20 pmThe solution on this could be found in interactive reads. I cannot take every person. Could we divvy them up?

This can't be a real thought. You're suggesting that we are, let's say construction workers, and you suggest we each build one wall of the building separately so it gets done faster. When, if you are town, you should know that at least one of those workers is a saboteur who will plant some explosives in the walls and make the roof fall on our asses.

When you know who built which wall, this is a good tactic.

But also we could take two each, do double duty. Increases the possibility of finding the sabotage.

Also I don’t think it’s accurate to call it a redirect, in the sense that the victim is chosen at random from those in my neighbourhood. Part of why I baited Alison to vig me day 2…

Btw we still don’t have an explanation for Alison’s claimed kill, do we?

Porscha wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 10:34 pm Golden is your redirect
...
Does it only work to redirect off of you? Are you able to... redirect from a neighbor? When did you neighborize ender?

I attempted last night.

I’ll explain my full role if people are really convinced soup can’t hit again. It’s a hell of a lot more powerful than I’ve ever let on, or could have been if I wasn’t terrible at actually building a neighbourhood.

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 11:10 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 11:03 pm

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 10:25 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 10:17 pm I’m not much for believing nk anaylsis is the best but ‘why did they pick rondo to kill’ is a meaningful question for me, or more pertinently ‘who would have killed rondo there’.

The unhelpful answer to that question is ‘frame ender’.

I neighboured ender btw. I spent plenty time in thread yesterday trying to ensure he wasn’t in the wolf kill pool.

why wouldn't you neighbour a slot that can survive your redirect?

why would you neighbour someone with the highest utility to town if they are also town?

You feeling left out?

I wanted to neighbour the person I wanted to solve.

explanation makes no sense but thanks for the reply i guess

It doesn’t make no sense. Ender was my top wolfread and you’re asking why I’d want to redirect a kill on me onto them because ‘what if they’re town’. It’s your line of thinking which is starting from the wrong spot.

Btw, my roleclaim had detail that is objectively true and backe up by Kate.

Svs just made stuff up.

The two are not parallels at all. Apparently svs gave a title, if so that’s the only parallel (and she did so only because and after her bulletproof vest went off. Read the start of day three again to see why I claimed.)

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 10:42 pm SVS's magnificent claims points towards Golden's magnificent claim.

I don't know who came up with SVS's claim, but that thing was genius.

We have evidence that Mafia were extremely well prepared.

SVS went as far as to even have a believable name for her role.

So does Golden. He insisted that we townread his flavor name. "Why would Mafia have the "Turnip Head Award" as a flavor name? Surely they can't!"

Nobody else ever claimed flavor name.

Golden you're a fucking wolf

And Porscha might be one too

Porscha was the obvious NK last night. Me and Rondo were gonna death tunnel each other. I was gonna throw the game by chopping Rondo.

Or Dizzy, as I also expressed SR on Dizzy.

Porscha surviving last night leads to her also being Mafia, imo.

But Golden is the bigger fish to fry

-t

Ok, so can I ask that I allocate you for associative reads then? Or just read my day 2?

To wolf read me, you have to believe that:

1) I neighboured a wolfmate with a high deepwolf equity on night 1 because ??? and have provided a very clear explanation for why I did this from a town perspective with day one evidence of the truth of it; and

2) I helped Mac, alongside wolfmate Alison, narrow down to a PoE of six that had four!!!! of my wolfmates in it, vouching instead for townies to get them out of the pool.

3) Then, after nailing both marmot and svs to the wall with good logic, was successfully pushed off them through their own thread-based conversations with me, rather than getting the cred I could have gotten with the work I did.

I genuinely don’t think it would be possible to read my day one and two, or do associative reads with me and Alison, marmot and svs, and think there’s any real chance I’m on that team.
2)

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 10:25 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 10:17 pm I’m not much for believing nk anaylsis is the best but ‘why did they pick rondo to kill’ is a meaningful question for me, or more pertinently ‘who would have killed rondo there’.

The unhelpful answer to that question is ‘frame ender’.

I neighboured ender btw. I spent plenty time in thread yesterday trying to ensure he wasn’t in the wolf kill pool.

why wouldn't you neighbour a slot that can survive your redirect?

why would you neighbour someone with the highest utility to town if they are also town?

You feeling left out?

I wanted to neighbour the person I wanted to solve.

Porscha wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 10:15 pm

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 8:21 pm Should Porscha and Sloonei claim?

-t

Maf can presumably soup during day since that's since rust and kate died so I'm hesitant but I would be willing to share a tidbit more than I have

How normal is it for soup to be able to act multiple times?

I’m not much for believing nk anaylsis is the best but ‘why did they pick rondo to kill’ is a meaningful question for me, or more pertinently ‘who would have killed rondo there’.

The unhelpful answer to that question is ‘frame ender’.

I neighboured ender btw. I spent plenty time in thread yesterday trying to ensure he wasn’t in the wolf kill pool.

Porscha wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 10:13 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 8:14 pm I will take it for granted Rondo was not doing some awful fancy play, and he told the truth, and therefore Sloonei is town.

Mafia in PC, Porscha and Golden.

:/ and here I am tr'ing both

I’m literally townreading all of you.

I think we all need to examine our own, and each other’s, reasons for the TR on everyone.

We should all be welcoming it at this point.

Kate wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 9:49 pm

No kidding.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 8:28 pm I feel like Porscha and Golden can't be mafia still.

Tell me why YOU feel Porscha can’t be.

Oh wow dizzy claimed the ender kill.

Honestly if I was dizzy and American townie I woulda shut up and let ender vote me and been hoping I just ended the game at this flip.

I don’t care which of you is the deepwolf here…

You’re a legend. I can see everyone had the exact week feeling… being utterly lost.

The solution on this could be found in interactive reads. I cannot take every person. Could we divvy them up?

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 8:53 pm I guess it could be Golden, but that would be maybe the best mafia performance I think I've ever seen. His claim is a point in his favour too. Him not getting souped is not, but he had an answer to that which I believed at the time. I do think he defended SVS later in the game, so I'll look over that.

I also need to do due diligence.

Never defended svs, never, not once at all, believed she was town.

I did believe her role claim until mod squad was elimmed and I felt very good about her flip lol. Honestly look back in the history of my posting about svs and I’d be surprised if what you find in there ever said I trusted svs (if I did I don’t remember it)

My list was svs > guillo > ender > rondo

Whichever of Rondo and ender was killed by mafia, weird choice. Especially because both were involved in the scotty elim.

I don’t have a tonne of time today, I’ll catch up on posts tonight. But starting thoughts.

It’s not Sloonei.
I really don’t think it’s Porscha but she needs an iso.

That leaves PC or dizzy for me. And I’ve been a pretty big defender of both all game, soo… bugger.

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 7:44 pm @Dyslexicon Syn had a galaxy brain take

Ender is a mafia-aligned Gambit Demon that was designed by Nanook specifically to end game and unintentionally townside by not telling him what do his gifts do

I also think Ender is Mafia rn because he's the only one not frustrated and hating this game

-t

Ender being wolf should definitely be taken more seriously lol

Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 7:36 pm Look by all means svs could be a harmless 3p and we are missing out on the wolf who has soup but without enough information we have no better option than to flip anyone who isnt town and that's the argument I have made and will continue to make

Flip what we know
We’ve done a good job at forcing the wolf kill to be in a narrow pool
Reevaluate tomorrow

It’s going ok I think

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 6:15 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 5:36 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 5:24 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 5:11 pm I think I feel particularly at sea in this game and my reads are not the same as the reads of others.

What names are of greatest concern when you consider these disagreements?

Ender is of the greatest concern, in the sense that if you were to multiply ‘odds of being a wolf’ by ‘odds of not being elimmed’ I’d say his number comes out top.

eh I am going to lose the game to Ender and say he is town

This is exactly my point lol

You don’t get to control me

Guillotine wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 5:49 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 5:47 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 5:45 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 5:42 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 5:39 pm There's no point in continuing this conversation.

This is the 100% correct assessment.

In this game, guillo has chosen his wolf reads and everything is proof that he’s correct.

Apparently “that’s just guillo” but at the very least there’s no value in engaging with his case as being well read or rational, because it’s gut-based (assuming t!guillo) or designed to replicate meta (assuming w!guillo).

If you are town, i dont wanna read posts from you post game for apologizing for shielding Dizzy.

I said this on day one when you first suspected me.

I’ll say it again here.

I do not care what you ‘want to read’ from me. You use a lot of controlling language that I don’t like or appreciate. I’ll post what I feel like posting. If you don’t want to read what I post that’s your choice and option.

No, i mean it, if you are town and Dzzy is scum whom i believe he is, i better do not read an apology post from you post game when i spent the entire game telling you he was scum.

I better not.

Guillo, this is emotionally abusive behaviour and I’m gonna ask you to stop it now.

Here is my take on guillo.

On day one, I said ‘there’s a lot of tropey stuff in the wolfreads’. Mac later asked me what I thought was genuinely wolf indicative.

I said: “the challenging of the truthfulness of my read on Kate” (Alison, Seanzie, Guillo, Urist, Scotty.)

And: “saying you’ll contribute more when the game is smaller” (sVS, Michelle, Guillo.)

Guillo being in both of these categories, each of which did legitimately prove to include non-town players for reasons that proved to be legitimately AI.

On day 2/3, wolves had a clear loss of ‘wim’. Guillo simply stoped participating during that point in time, reappearing once town started losing its way again. On day 3 the game was at the size guillo said he could contribute in, he wasn’t there. By now, guillo is in a size of game he can actively solve in, but his tunnel and the breadth of his thinking seems no more broad than day one.

From the very start of this game, Guillo has played in a way that people say is ‘just town’, it’s been out there since day one.

Guillo doesn’t have time or desire to read the thread and keeps derping about it’s content, consistently. Guillo does have time to read his own meta database, though.

The whole thing just doesn’t add up to me. I feel like guillo is playing a role… be actively wolfy, be meta cleared, retain a very narrow tunnel on civs.

Perhaps it just seems more obvious to me, or is confbiased, because I’ve been in guillo’s tunnel the entire game. But there has not been a single moment in this game where guillos reads on me have felt even slightly developed or evolving.

Guillotine wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 5:45 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 5:42 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 5:39 pm There's no point in continuing this conversation.

This is the 100% correct assessment.

In this game, guillo has chosen his wolf reads and everything is proof that he’s correct.

Apparently “that’s just guillo” but at the very least there’s no value in engaging with his case as being well read or rational, because it’s gut-based (assuming t!guillo) or designed to replicate meta (assuming w!guillo).

If you are town, i dont wanna read posts from you post game for apologizing for shielding Dizzy.

I said this on day one when you first suspected me.

I’ll say it again here.

I do not care what you ‘want to read’ from me. You use a lot of controlling language that I don’t like or appreciate. I’ll post what I feel like posting. If you don’t want to read what I post that’s your choice and option.

The case of guillo is a fascinating one.

A person who keeps a meta database who is being townread based on meta.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 5:39 pm There's no point in continuing this conversation.

This is the 100% correct assessment.

In this game, guillo has chosen his wolf reads and everything is proof that he’s correct.

Apparently “that’s just guillo” but at the very least there’s no value in engaging with his case as being well read or rational, because it’s gut-based (assuming t!guillo) or designed to replicate meta (assuming w!guillo).

Continuing*

Guillotine wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 5:29 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 5:24 pm So, it's like this

Guillo and PC, and also others in the game - Dizzy is for sure wolf or likely wolf - Me trying to town clear myself - ignored? - I think it's a detriment if I'm staying around to use up another round so I offer to get cleared up - "wow why do you want to get cleared up that's so wolfy lol"

I'm not the one creating this situation, at least I'm trying my best not to. So I'm at an impasse here.

Dyslexicon. What you are doing is LAMIST at its finrst because no town that is not a game thrower is gonna offer up to get killed to “clear themselves” at lylo or close to it.

Im sorry mate but it is what it is.

The point is to prove your roleclaim. Which you could have done by simply confusing to vote yourself and shooting dizzy.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 5:24 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 5:11 pm I think I feel particularly at sea in this game and my reads are not the same as the reads of others.

What names are of greatest concern when you consider these disagreements?

Ender is of the greatest concern, in the sense that if you were to multiply ‘odds of being a wolf’ by ‘odds of not being elimmed’ I’d say his number comes out top.

I think I feel particularly at sea in this game and my reads are not the same as the reads of others.

Guillotine wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 5:09 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 5:07 pm

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 5:06 pm
Surviving to end game as town is the absolute worst experience in Mafia.

-t

I had this exact thought yesterday

(At least when you’re approaching lylo)

It is the worse but ive never lost a mylo where the decision is up to me.

I don’t believe I’ve ever lost mylo or lylo as any alignment yet but there’s a first time for everything.