The Syndicate

@S~V~S I appreciate your post, but I assure you I am not hung up on your vote from yesterday. The only point I am hung up on with regards to your alignment is G-man’a vote on Day 2.

I still need to consider your vote for me to some degree, of course. There were two bandwagons, one town and one mafia. Anyone who votes for the town player in that wagon should have their vote scrutinized. It does not mean they are all bad. But it would be negligent to ignore them.

Actually SVS's ISO from the time G-man was alive is relatively short, so:

Here she provides some sharp criticism of his play. Cool, noted. I do appreciate the read and would ordinarily give her very good marks for it. But a mid-game sub always has the potential to have formed reads before entering. At the very least, this is not a bad look for SVS.

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This is not a bad observation. I dig it. And it's fresh, so she gets more credit this time.

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SVS votes for G-man. Cool. But...

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SVS would eventually vote for me over G-man. She's already explained that this was more tactical than due to a preference for me over G-man. But even with that explanation, I can't simply look past the fact that she voted on the wrong wagon when it was Town Vs. Mafia. I don't hate her vote as much as I did initially.

Really the only point I am stuck on with this slot is that G-man voted for LoRab instead of DH on Day 2. That vote was so jarring and out of place that it was one of the centerpieces of my case against G-man. So why did he do it if not to save DH? If we can answer that question, SVS is a comfortable town read.

DH -> G-man

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Fluff

This post contains several ISOs, including one of G-man. DH offers a relatively unfavorable view of G-man, criticizing his inconsistent and hypocritical approach to Day 1. Not a bad look. Let's see how much it is followed up on.

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DH doesn't know how many mafia teams there are, and also is commenting on Bea and G-man buddying. I can go either way with this. I think the belief that there were two teams is genuine, but I don't necessarily see that as a "townslip". I also don't think it's impossible that he is softly defending two teammates here. However, there is also an argument to be made that Mafia DH may not stick his neck out for Mafia Bea and Mafia G in one post like this. Especially when he has already been critical of G-man elsewhere. Let's keep going.

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Noted.

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G-man is in DH's list of Day 1 suspects. I highlighted the dead players according to their alignments. On the one hand, it's encouraging that G-man is named here. On the other, this list contains five names. The rule of salad dictates that a list of five players probably contains at least one teammate.

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He follows through with a vote. i dig it.

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DH feels jilted by G-man's lack of attention paid to his case. I'll tentatively call this a good look, though I wouldn't put it past DH to stage something like this. I believe he is capable of elaborate theatrics.

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DH elects not to elaborate on why he chose G-man over another strong suspicion (Scotty) on Day 1. Noted.

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G-man gets an incidental mention. Noted.

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He continues to feel spurned by G-man.

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DH defends his handling of G-man when it is suggested that he has not built off his early. Noted. At this point, I think DH's emotions had overtaken him and he was more focused on refuting criticism than developing reads, so I'm hesitant to read too much into this as to how it reflects on the DH->G-man dynamic.

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This is a post that exists.

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We have reached a total communication breakdown at this point. I'm not going to bother to highlight any future posts like this one.

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Throws some snark at G-man's tiered reads list. The criticism of G-man is certainly an aspect of this post worth weighing. But I feel this post is more of a passive-aggressive dig at others than it is an act of aggression against G-man. Still, I don't think it's a bad look for DH as far as his alignment goes.

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DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 5:55 pm ISO of purely N1/D2 posts:

G-Man:
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Says the Vivax lynch "simplifies" the game "for us". The rest is fairly fluffy/OT.

Overall Read - Not bothered to fuck with a guy who has IRL stuff he's doing, but also, miffed that he's not addressed my ISO from D1 so he's still suspicious to me.
Golden:

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Mourns the Splints kill. Does some light tilde solving stuff. Back and forth with Scotty here Which doesn't last long

Offers some reads here Namely wants more from DF/LoRab and has no reads on Michelle, Kate, Doc. Less so on Doc.

Votes Quin because he's "coasting"

Thinks My D1 stuff was fine but my D2 stuff is suspect.
Pinged by my Scotty post
Feels Like Eloh Townslipped

And the rest is back and forth with me pretty much which is funny but not productive.

Oh and also a DFaraday vote instead of a Lorab vote which is incredibly safe and therefore suspicious. Only marginally less suspicious because of how consistent it is.

Overall Read - I don't think Golden is bad. In the world that he is though, he's teammates with Scotty.
Kate
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Tail end of Day 1 (once she started playing) She seemd pretty keen on a Scotty suspicion The rest is Most if not all OT stuff so again, not much to go on. Only real "ping" here is that Kate managed all D1 without contributing much (Not to be mean, but it is true) and then was targeted by OT Green? Smacks of mafia self targeting to get a lynch pass.
Llama
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Wants to look at people who avoided the Eloh/Sloonei Wagons which I think is smart.
Disagrees that the Splints kill was "bizarre"
Didn't read anything I posted
Posts an updated Rainbow List Which reads to me as largely empty. Classic trying to appear helpful but not actually being that helpful.
Feels worse about Scotty after realizing that he voted Quin
Is suspicious of LoRab and Quin for being blendy/quiet
Votes LoRab
Votes Quin shortly after
Offers this explanation. Seems measured.

Overall Read: Still fairly okay with putting LLama in the town camp but I am pinged by the rainbow list "contribution". Though his other thoughts/posts have been contributory enough to excuse that
Lorab
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"RIPIYWG" splintsHere And posits that splints was a "good kill" if someone on the mafia team has knowledge of her past games/skills.
Doesn't offer any reads because she doesn't want to help mafia And is paranoid about game secrets.
Defends herself here and here

Overall Read - I dunno maybe I'm stupid but this feels like a bandwagon/easy lynch to me.
Anyway thats just so far. Combine Kate's being OT'd with her vote on LoRab and she rockets up my suspect list.

Short comment about G-man, still wants him to respond to his now-somewhat-outdated case against him.

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I agree with part of this list. Salad Law still applies, though.

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As I said before, I think the fact that G-man felt compelled to apologize to DH here is a good look for him. If they are teammates, this whole exchange probably never happens. Combined with DH's consistent, though stagnant, suspicion of G-man throughout his time in the game, there are certainly some points in his favor here. But there are also a few points that look really bad for DH in G-man's ISO.

I also feel that DH's frustration was genuine. While that made it difficult to assess some of his content as it pertains to G-man, I do think it is a good look for him as far as his alignment is concerned. I might be willing to call this slow a light town read, but with a few major concerns still lingering.

I'll get to the SVS portion later. It's nearly 2 AM again.

DFaraday -> G-man

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DF gives G-man an unsubstantiated town read, along with Scotty. He cites "tone" for each of them. Okay then.

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G-man asks DF to justify his LoRab vote, and DF responds with a direct citation. Solid response. DF's response to G here tells me very little, but (as I said in my previous post), I think G-man's treatment of him here looks like a mafioso in search of more "suspects" to push.

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DF abstains from yesterday's vote because he suspects neither of the two main candidates. Fine. His town read on G-man is at least consistent, although he never quite articulated why it existed. This is not the worst, but there is nothing in DF's posts that counts as "good" either. Inconclusive.

Bea -> G-man Interactions

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Already talked about the flip side of this interaction in my previous wall. I think it looks like textbook teammate fluff banter. Bad look for Bea.

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G-man is one of the players she is most familiar with. Noted.

That is the extent of their interactions while G-man was alive, unless I'm missing something. But I just triple checked. Not great.
Bea does contribute to some postmortem G discussions here. I snipped the relevant bit:

bea wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 7:22 pm
S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 10:15 am Addendum to the post about why G Mans bad team wouldn’t try to lynch someone else.

This is driving me nuts. I’m trying to figure out why a bad team wouldn’t try to start a third wagon if both Sloon and G were bad, or try harder to pile on Sloonei if only G was bad.

Maybe he was alone, or only had one teammate there? Like others were low posters or had time zone issues?

Because I’ve been playing Mafia a long time and have never seen a baddie with an alternative train do … nothing. I’m spitballing about maybe low posters etc because I just don’t understand Gs behavior

It was this behavior that baffeled me eod. Basically, it put just enough doubt in my mind that the lynch was potentially civ v civ again. I was super wrong. But I trying my hardest.

I am not buying this at all. Bea gave no indication that G-man's behavior influenced her at all, or that she even had a preference between the two options (G-man & I). Here are the posts she made around the time of her vote:

bea wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 7:34 pm I am a confused and no lies feel like any vote I make is rushed and illinformed.

Also i missed why svs voted sloon? It looked in the thread like she sused gman.

bea wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 7:35 pm Dgoing with the tie. I hope rev knows better than i do.

Bea shows up to the thread as time is winding down and chucks a blind vote onto me for the sake of creating a tie. This vote is bad in every which way and I don't think I need to analyze it any further than it already has been. I'm only pointing out here to highlight the point that I do not believe Bea when she says G-man's EoD behavior put doubt in her mind.

If B is not G's teammate, I'll eat all of your shoes.

Just vote for me after bea. I’ll do my ISOs and leave behind what I can.

Kate wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 10:32 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 10:30 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 10:01 pm Sloon are still as absolutely certain on Quin as you have been thus far?
No.
Why not?

Do you have any thoughts on why he'd vote me yesterday, without putting anything about his vote in the thread?

He doesn’t look squeaky clean in G-man’s posts.

I do not have thoughts on Quin’s Day 3 vote. I didn’t take much note of it. @Quin care to weigh in?

Kate wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 10:01 pm Sloon are still as absolutely certain on Quin as you have been thus far?

No.

Vivax wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 8:48 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 8:45 pm Fyi, it appears we can still move the votes.
Good to know, thanks. I volunteer to start a counterwagon (which may or may not be the person I'd currently vote if it were EoD)

[VOTE: DFaraday] aubergine

G-man treated DFaraday like somebody he wanted to eliminate when the opportunity arose. I do not think they were teammates.

[VOTE: bea] aubergine as promised.

At some point today I will dig into all your ISOs for G-man interactions.

RIP Scooty. We will avenge you, I’m pretty sure.

The premise is that it's theoretically better for the mafia team to target a player we're less certain about than one who is universally cleared. Gives us one less player to solve.

That's if we suppose the strategy actually works. I don't think most mafia teams would care too much about last-minute POE discussions when choosing their kill target.

Kate wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 6:52 pm Is night ending at 800 or at 854 tonight?

Host post says we have until 8 to submit night actions.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 6:29 pm
sig wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 5:51 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 5:16 pm
sig wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 5:14 pm
Vivax wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 3:16 pm I think this is where we are supposed to fabricate towncases on our scumreads in the hope that they catch a bullet
Why would mafia kill themselves
I think viv means let’s talk about people in our POE we think are good so that maybe mafia kills them tonite, to shore up the pool
Ag that’s an interesting strategy
Can someone explain this strategy to me a little more in depth and more clearly?

POE = Process of Elimination

Players "in our POE" are players we can't clear as town. It's still possible to read those players as town, but without significant evidence in their favor. Someone like Sig right now, for me at least. By talking about players in our POE and which we think are town we can A) work toward eliminating more players from the pool of suspects, and B) potentially draw the mafia kill to a player in our POE.

I don't know if that is actually what Vivax was proposing. But that's the gist of it.

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 5:02 pm “The middle tier of Vivax, Eloh, Michelle, and Quin get aggressively neutral stances. G-man does little more than list their names here. Now that's a group that likely contains a bad guy.”

Which of those names, gun to head, do you think it likely is?

Vivax

Volume II of my G-man Study (see Volume I here):

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G-Man wrote: ↑Sat Oct 29, 2022 7:14 pm
Variations on a Read List, Part 1
by G-Man

When I left off, I was trying to form a towncore. What I was left with sucks, even for a starter kit:

Towncore:

-bea
-thellama73

That's it, and it is so not adequate enough for this stage of the game. I like the looseness of Llama's play. He gets a little more serious when it matters, but he never gets too srsbsnss to the point that it feels forced. Bea's return to the game had a very good look to it. She spent a day with a posting quirk but her return shows that she didn't just use that as an excuse to take a day off. She showed that she was paying attention. I would expect a baddie at her prior level of activity to use that quirk to coast and just come back apologetic about checking out for too long.

I'd like to take this time to add to the conversation that my initial hunch on Bea's posting quirk had something to do with one of the Socky awards. The Socky has a few awards at their disposal, but we don't know what they do. My guess is that this role is like a Jack of All Trades and has a quiver of 1-shot power uses. The likeliest match would be Best Gambit. We won't know for sure until endgame though. It certainly could be the Vomp role, but I guess LoRab's death means we won't be getting anything more than E out of those tildes.

Civ-Leans:

-Eloh
-Golden
-Scotty
-Sloonei

I still feel like the suspicion of Eloh was overblown on D1. There was some speculation later about a townslip but I have to read back more for that. The other three all sound so darn supatown but I have to confess that I can't keep them straight in my head when reading the thread. ISO's will help. I don't know if it's a processing issue on my brain's part, but all their super-sleuthing voices run together in my head. It is frustrating and I don't know how to break myself of it. It happens in just about every game that I play- voices just merge in my head and I struggle to distinguish them as individuals. ISO'ing these folks is no picnic either, as they have posted an outsized share of the game thread. I still maintain that there's bound to be a baddie among the most talkative players. There almost always is. Otherwise the talkative players would eventually harmonize and the poe becomes simpler. Maybe there's more to distinguish them since this morning.

G-man kicks this post off by naming a towncore of llama and bea. He had been vocal about his "town read" on llama for a while. He had expressed no such read on Bea until this moment, Given that Bea looks not great elsewhere in G-man's post, I am inclined to read this as a bit of opportunism: Mafia G-Man sees that Mafia Bea is receiving town reads from others and hops on board with that. He gets a pass from needing to produce independent thoughts on her and she can continue to skate by. This theory may seem like a stretch, so I can simplify it: It looks weird for G-man to declare Bea as one of only two members of his "towncore" after previously expressing no clear read on her one way or another.

He also lists Eloh, Golden, Scotty, and myself as "civ-leans". This is interesting because he has elsewhere expressed general suspicion of the most vocal players in the game, a group which specifically contains each of Golden, Scotty, and myself, along with DharmaHelper, now SVS. I am inclined to read this in favor of both Scotty and Golden. G-man genuinely seems to be treating the three of us as a unit here. I believe him when he says he is having trouble distinguishing between our voices. If he had a teammate in that trio, he would probably be having less trouble separating them.
The town lean on Eloh is consistent with things he had said earlier in the game, but underwhelming and could potentially be a bad look for her.

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G-Man wrote: ↑Sat Oct 29, 2022 7:42 pm
Variations on a Read List, Part 1
by G-Man
Inconclusive (But Not Necessarily in a Bad Way):
-DharmaHelper
-DrWilgy
-Quin

DH is a stone's throw away from the trio I just talked about. I always auto-sussed him due to his tone and a string of evil victories in the past, but that makes him mis-chop bait and I try to temper that. I'd like to ISO him first of all the big talkers. I was more comfortable voting for LoRab (sorry again for tying that vote up) because DH had his head in the game and at that point it would have been worse to lose DH as a civ player trying to break the game than to lose LoRab who hadn't contributed much by that point. DH can be a force and I want to see if I can determine if he is a force for good or evil.

Wilgy's lick thing was amusing and he continues to come across as harmless. His ISO will be helpful in showing me if he has contributed to game-solving at all today. That's going to become more important. Day 3 will start with us at 10 vs 4 since the 3P is dead. There's a little margin for error on D3, but we need folks to step it up or else the tension will mount and we run the risk of desperation mistakes on a D4 that's 8 vs 4.

Quin's voice is out there, but it's gotten lost for me in the sea of DH-Golden-Scotty-Sloonei content. I don't love that. I know Quin is capable of a slick baddie game, but I also don't remember feeling too cautious about him early on. I need to ISO him early as well. He's another one who can step things up when the game requires it, and the game is going to require it here soon.

Inconclusive (But Not Necessarily in a Good Way):
-Kate
-Michelle
-sig

Unlike Bea, Kate came back after a posting restriction and wasn't able to get her head in the game in a good way. I understand it's been forever since she's played and that can be a tough adjustment. Attitudes and personalities can make it even harder. But I didn't see much initially that suggested she was following the game with the intent of jumping right back into the fray. Granted, she seems to have been targeted by the baddie team with the OT Green posting, so maybe I shouldn't be as concerned with her. I hear the WIFOM argument of the baddies OT'ing a teammate, but on Night 1? It feels like a stretch to me.

Michelle's got content, but I still feel so blank to it. It's not meaty or fluffy. It just evaporates in my mind. Has she posted anything to chew on since this morning?

Sig is kind of the same way for me. There's content, but I remember none of it (except the in-joke stuff about him always getting chopped to early). I don't like forgetting about people by the end of D2.

Still a Null Read (And That Needs To Change)
-DFaraday
-VivAxe

Note- this category is not the bad list. It's just null, existing outside of reads and vibes.

DF hasn't posted much at all. As with LoRab, I'm not in good standing to bash low-posters, but it's troublesome for me. I can't get a read on you if you don't post. I think we have better points of discussion that are active right now, but I hate that lingering concern about a low-participation player becoming an easy target if we screw up D3 and get desperate.

VivAxe is still tricky for me. I tend to just shrug Axe off on D1's, so his departure leaves me with a day of nothingness on that slot. Vivax replaced in, but Vivax is new to me, so that compounds the nullness of it all. An ISO of D2 content should help move VivAxe into another category.

This is companion post to the above. DH, Quin, and Wilgy are all "inconclusive but not in a bad way." If I can take some liberties, I'll call these "light town reads" for G-man. I continue to feel like G-man's justification for voting LoRab over DH (reiterated in this post) is perhaps the wonkiest thing in the entire game. The DH write-up reads more like a string of excuses for his placement there, rather than a read.
He essentially has nothing to say about Wilgy other than that he intends to read him. I think Wilgy looks very good elsewhere in relation to G-man, and this post does nothing to move that.
G-man seems to have a more negative take on Quin than the other two in this category which is... odd. These are supposed to be favorable reads, but I don't get the impression that G-man is actually giving a favorable analysis of Quin here. It's not overtly bad, but it feels out of place.

Kate, Michelle, and Sig are the next grouping. I'll categorize these as null-to-light-mafia reads. I got a bit of a chuckle reading his take on Kate in hindsight. G-man reminds himself that she was targeted by OT Green. I think the fact that G-man is trying to maintain a negative read on her while bringing up his own curse reflects well on Kate. If they are partners, he is burying her twice for no good reason.
He says absolutely nothing about Michelle or Sig. Cool cool cool.
Ditto for DF and Vivax. G-man laments that the former had not posted enough, and that the latter is new to him. I could go either way on that. Meh. Moving on.

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G-man was more cognizant of the curse on Bea than on DF. This reflects poorly on Bea and well on DF.

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Scotty's call-out is too specific to be directed at a partner. G-man's response is too accommodating to be directed at a partner.

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G-Man wrote: ↑Sun Oct 30, 2022 12:30 am
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 4:59 pm Like…if you were to take the energy you’re putting into this guffawing and defensive hullabaloo you’re dishing out and put it into reading the game at large, I think we’d all be more productive

Verisimilitude is not the same as truth, but this post, after all the lengthy D2 chatter, puts Scotty over the edge for me and I have moved him into my towncore tier. The structure of this post strikes me as a legit civvie mindset from a place of pure focus. Looking back through at Scotty, his tone (for the most part) seems to be non-emotional without being emotionless. That's the lynchpin for my brain. There's logic with the desire to avoid getting sucked into the emotional side of the game. It's there, almost all the time. In this post alone, he's focused on one thing- moving the game forward. Is it a dig at DH, yes. But it's not an invitation to mud wrestle. It's a logical slap and request to rise above. If there is a baddie in the big talkers, I rule out Scotty. Golden and DH both got caught up in the emotional side of the game. That's not a putdown or a judgement on either of them. Emotion happens. And emotions are harder to cut through and interpret.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 5:55 pm ISO of purely N1/D2 posts:

G-Man:
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Says the Vivax lynch "simplifies" the game "for us". The rest is fairly fluffy/OT.

Overall Read - Not bothered to fuck with a guy who has IRL stuff he's doing, but also, miffed that he's not addressed my ISO from D1 so he's still suspicious to me.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 6:28 pm I suppose its not NOT insignificant that G-Man's most recent post continues to ignore the points against him but I guess thats cool.
In fast-moving games (most games, really) I tend to just keep pressing forward. This amplifies when I have to catch up. Your thoughts weren't worth my time the minute they were posted. Sure, on Day 1, we have to do something to try and make some luck and find a foothold or two. You posted thoughts, not a case. I can't punch holes in thoughts, but what you wrote was indicative of the need to hire a copy editor because it was a disastrous misreading of my posts. But you're not inside my head, are you? You misinterpreted some of what I wrote. It happens. Just because I don't stop and respond to your one thoughts post or all the mopey posts bemoaning the fact that I brushed you off doesn't mean a thing. I'm trying to move forward and get my nostrils above water in this game, so when you build a case, please @ me and I'll address it. Until then,

Spoiler: show

Your D2 content was as awkward to read at times as it is to listen to my sister yell at her children all the time because she has a short fuse. I like you better when you're posting snarky, confident TWD memes. Where did they go? Please chill out a little and bring them back. No mafia game is worth getting bent out of shape over. This goes for Golden as well. Learn to walk away, do some deep breathing, and reflect on what you wrote before you hit 'Submit.'

More townie points for Scotty.

G-man's response to DH is interesting. I can sense a real effort to de-escalate from G-man here, which would suggest that DH's frustration with him is being perceived as genuine. That would reflect well on DH/SVS, since G-man would have no reason to assume that his own teammate is mad at him for "misreading" him. Slightly good look for DH/SVS, but not good enough to completely undo some of the previous negative points. It is possible this is just an effective bit of play acting from G-man.

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Does Mafia G-man respond to a minor point from Mafia Quin simply to express agreement? Maybe. But it's a very subtle interaction between teammates if so. I tend to believe that posts like this are more likely to come from a mafioso reacting to a town player. That is just a hunch though, and I have no data to back it up. I'll call it the slightest of good looks for Quin.

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G-man goes a step farther and apologizes to DH in case he has caused any offense. That is a good look for DH/SVS. See above if you care enough to be reading this right now.

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G-Man wrote: ↑Sun Oct 30, 2022 3:32 pm Vigorous day of ISO'ing ahead for me (but I have some work to do as well). I'm starting with the ISO's that are less extensive. Before I get to the first few, I'll be referencing this image for vote analysis, even though there isn't a whole lot to work with yet because of the D1 switch.

Spoiler: show

I'm working from the assumption that the baddies have not NK'd one of their own. Points have been made to rationalize the mafia's kill choices as safe plays. It also makes no sense from a baddie's perspective to diminish your ratio and extend the game so early on.

D1's switch got rid of the 3P, but it also robs us of taking a results-oriented look at the day. Everyone who received votes on D1 is still alive.

Random facts that I saw but don't mean anything yet: 1) three of the four D1 Sloonei voters are all now dead; 2) Quin & Sloonei are the only people whose votes match each other for both days.

I also made an old-school role poe chart, but I don't know if I should share it or if it will be too useful for the baddies as well.

Now then, on to some ISO's. I'm trying to formulate a town core without leaving too many people in the sus pile. Assuming 4 baddies in the game and 14 players left, my goal is to have a poe of no greater than six just because we don't have enough margin for error to consider too wide a poe pool.

BEA:
Overall, her ISO looks pretty good. A little lean on game-relevant content but she was easing back into things. Her worst post looks to be the one where she expressed dismay about not wanting to vote for any of the trains involved in a three-way tie at the time with what she thought was only 30 minutes to go, but her very next post may well be a townslip in which she realizes (via someone's response) that there was another 24 hours left on the poll. Could it be manufactured? Sure. But I don't know that baddies either 1) forget the poll deadline, or 2) try to fake that sort of slip. She spends D2 with letter weirdness but she jumped back into the game strong, showing that she didn't use the phase as a coasting opportunity. Good look there. The only curious thing that stands out to me otherwise is her habit of declaring the OG folks as being 'on point' for their years-ago meta. She used that phrase a few times when evaluating.

Votes: Missed D1, VivAxe D2 (@bea Why VivAxe again? Was it more Viv or more Axe? I don't see your vote declared in your ISO.)

DF:
Posts a promise-to-catch-up post at the end of N0, misses all of D1, has a right (imo) read on Eloh. Also cursed with switched vowels D2. Another promise post, and then a post in which he says that LoRab's tone reminds him of her past baddie tone and he votes for her. That's it. Four posts. @DFaraday Now that you are not cursed, can you point to a few of LoRab's posts that led you to the wrong conclusion about her tone meta? DF is about as inconclusive as it gets. With no real room for null reads at this point, I have to put him in my poe. It's not because I find him suspicious, but because I have no reason to townclear him based on his content thus far.

Votes: Missed D1, LoRab D2

DrWilgy:
He miss N0, which is neither here nor there. The lick thing was cute, but also ISO'ing reveals that it was inconsistent. His first few licks are for people he voted for. Then the licks seem to switch to take on a positive (?) connotation. @DrWilgy Can you please pause the goofiness to explain the licking thing? He makes a comment about Michelle being bad for not having solved things yet; I take this to be a joke. Otherwise it's a conspicuous break in his shtick. There's a lot of explaining what people tasted like when he licked them. I don't know what to make of his comments on how Eloh and Viv tasted. That was his D1. Nothing useful. D2 he seems to latch onto sig but then backtracks. Late in the day D2 he admits to having no conclusions on the game yet. He later seems to enjoy the tension and chaos of eod, but then wasn't keen on letting the moderator break the tie. If this were D2, I'd give Wilgy a null read, but this is D3 and the whimsical nature of his game so far hasn't been very productive. All those licks and he hasn't gotten to the center of a single player's Tootsie Pop yet to form a read? It's enough to leave me unable to townclear him.

Votes: Golden D1, Quin D2

Elohcin:
I still think the D1 sus of her was overblown at best and disingenuous at worst. I hope to source the origin of her train through these ISO's. She was sus of Vivax 1.0 and Sloonei. She continued to be sus of Sloonei D2, and there is the supposed townslip. Despite Sloonei sus, she turns her attention and vote to LoRab for her unhelpfulness and tone. Now she is OT Green for the day. @Elohcin What is the state of your Sloonei suspicion? I still feel good about her. Maybe her vote for LoRab could be read as advantageous, but I haven't seen the 'agreeable tell' like I think I remember.

Votes: Sloonei D1, LoRab D2

Kate:
She spends D1 sus on Scotty. This looks wrongheaded to me now, so I am curious if her read on him changed. @Kate What's your current opinion on Scotty? I feel ashamed to say that I don't remember Kate's playstyle at all. Perhaps it's just been that long. The level of sass took me by surprise, but we were a sassy bunch back in those days. She was OT Green for D2, but she got a few non-OT posts off at the start of the day. This makes me ponder if Kate had an OG townslip here. I understand the tinfoil theory about baddies OT'ing their own to buy them space, but it doesn't seem like Kate was suddenly in danger of falling onto the radar in a bad way. Also, if a baddie is OT'd, I don't think that they make the mistake of rattling off a few non-OT posts like that. The rest of D2 was lost to OT Green. N2 she comes in hot and mixes it up with a few people, DH the most. Overall, there seems to be a fair amount of culture clash and adjustment for Kate. Not surprising for a deep OG player. I can see the difficulty with how different the game is now being a talking point that a baddie could exploit, but her frustration seems genuine and I still doubt that a baddie goofs up on the OT bit at the start of the day. Not a lock, but that possible townslip is more than enough for me to keep her out of the poe.

Votes: Scotty D1, DH D2

Look at all this content. That's my favorite thing. I'll respond to each of G-man's reads individually.

Bea - G-man attempts to frame Bea's forgetfulness of the deadline time earlier in the game as a townslip. Nothing in my experience suggests that mistakes about deadline times are more (or less) likely to come from town players. Anyone can make a mistake like that. Bea has still not looked town once in G-man's posts.

DF - I get the impression that G-man is trying to leave DF open as an available vote option if needed. I don't get the sense that he is either trying to protect a low-activity partner, or drive a bus over him. DF's contributions have been the lightest of any player in this game. G-man was looking at him like my dog used to look at us at the dinner table.

DrWilgy - G-man continues to express uncertainty about DrWilgy's entire presence in this game, and then leaves him as a not-town read. I think this is a good look for Wilgy. G-man is looking for good mischop candidates, and he evidently feels he has found one in Wilgy. It's probably enough for me to townclear him.

Elohcin - G-man's "read" on Eloh is more like a book report. He just kinda lists things that have happened around her in the game and then drops a vague "I still feel good about her" at the end. This could be one teammate defending another, but I'm not sure it feels that way. Eloh is in no particular danger at this stage of the game, and G-man is already on the record as town reading her. If they are teammates, he can probably come up with something more detailed than what he produces here. Instead this feels like a mafia member attempting to appear like he's trying to develop a town read on a town player.

Kate - I actually think G-man raises a legitimate, valid point about Kate "townslipping" by not noticing that she was cursed at the start of Day 2. We also know now that G-man had plenty of reason to be extra sensitive to that particular curse. I don't think Kate and G-man are teammates.

Spoiler: show

I remain inclined to read both members of his POE as town.

Spoiler: show

G-Man wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 12:14 am Various read on the other manageable ISO's:

Michelle:
Other than a handful of posts where she posts a stance on a few players with no supporting information, Michelle collects in-the-moment vote counts. I like vote analysis, but I'm not sure I've ever gone so far as to seek out that level of detail. This leaves her D1 as a mixed bag at best. She checks out for D2, which is suboptimal. It doesn't look like she's even shown up for D3 yet. Michelle is more like Mehchelle. There was RL travel, I get that, but she didn't leave much to chew on overall. Not worthy of a town read.

Votes: Eloh D1, Missed D2

NAA/Vivax 2.0:
NAA is a bit cryptic, holds his cards close to the vest, and is punchy-awkward. He stirs the pot and then claims rolefishing. I've grown used to just looking past NAA on D1's that I feel nothing from his ISO. Vivax 2.0, however, is a different story. While I am still trying to get a feel for this ne-to-me player, they're chugging along at their own pace and producing content. Their reads differ quite a bit from mine in places, but it's okay to live outside of an echo chamber in this game. Let's see where this one goes.

Votes: Eloh D1, Quin D2

Quin:
Yikes. His D1 saw him sussing Eloh and Scotty, who are both outside of my poe by a sizeable margin. After circling back to Eloh & Scotty a few times he zags and votes DH. Then there's a lot of posting without much flavor to it, but it's at least stirred some conversation. I'm leery that Quin is more than capable of keeping this kind of dancing around the radar as a baddie. His posts go in and out of focus almost as they need to. I'd say it's not strong enough to evade the poe yet.

Votes: Eloh D1, LoRab D2

Sig:
Sig's ISO feels a lot like Quin's ISO, except that I liked it more. Most of it feels authentic, though his voting record sucks and I agree that it's not comforting to see him appear willing to coast today due to his posting affliction. It's soft, but I'll nudge him up out of the poe.

Votes: sig D1, Missed D2

Running on fumes now, so let me get to the big talkers quick.

Michelle - G-man's read of Michelle is not unfair, and I have trouble reading too much into it either way. He does not grant her a town read, but I don't think he would be that generous with all his teammates. This tells me very little about the relationship between G-man and Michelle, which is a shame because there have been very few mentions of her in here. Maybe that is significant.

NAA/Vivax2.0 - I am sensing very little effort from G-man to produce a read on this slot. Sure, Vivax is new to him. But it's not like Vivax hasn't been vocal in this game. I feel like G-man should be able to say more about Vivax after looking at his ISO here. I find this especially compelling when G-man is at a stage where he should, theoretically, be looking for "suspects" that he can push. That he is not touching the newcomer with somewhat idiosyncratic views is not a great look.

Quin - G-man finally seems to arrive at a decidedly negative view of Quin. Hooray. While my kneejerk reaction is to call this a good look for Quin, I want to walk that back a bit. Both of these players are in a position here where some distancing would be a good idea if they're partners. They've both been in the vicinity of the chopping block at some point in the game. The writing would be on the wall that one of them is likely to die soon. It would not look great if that happened and they were seen sticking up for each other.

Sig - G-man literally says the following: "Sig's ISO feels a lot like Quin's ISO, except that I liked it more." What? Bah. I feel like one of these two is mafia. This is goofy.

Spoiler: show

This is where I got the sense that G-man wanted to drive a wedge between the most vocal players by insisting that one of us is bad. He specifically names myself and Golden here. I do not believe Golden is mafia. I believe this was nonsense from G-man.

Spoiler: show

Votes for Quin. I do not view this in Quin's favor. G-man has a choice between distancing and self-preservation here. His effort level suggests distancing. But I am not certain of that.

Spoiler: show

G-man justified voting for Quin over Michelle by citing her posting curse. Note that no one asked him. But I do not object to that at face value. I am not sure what it says about either of their alignments. It suggests, at the very least, that G-man is conscious of the optics of his vote.

Spoiler: show

This is another wacky mental gymnastics post. It tells me that G-man had either surrendered, or was going for the WIFOM approach to try to stay alive. "If he was mafia, he'd be fighting harder", etc. I don't think he had totally surrendered, but he was definitely conscious of how his posts would look post-flip.

----------------------------------

And that brings us to the end of G-man's ISO.

Here is a rainbow list of everyone based purely on G-man's interactions with them in his posts:

DrWilgy
Golden
Scotty
Kate
DFaraday
Elohcin
DH/SVS
Sig
Michelle
Quin
NAA/Vivax
Bea

Tiers are loosely ordered based on however I felt like arranging them in the moment. Feel free to ask me about specifics if you don't feel like reading this whole monstrosity.

@Scotty I'm actually finishing up the G-man ISO right now. I'll answer that question when I have the whole picture.

Vivax wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 4:41 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 4:20 pm @Vivax Am I to understand that you are still not entertaining worldviews where Sloonei is town?
Why shouldn‘t I ?
When I replaced into this slot I wasn‘t quick to accuse you either. I think you become easier to solve as the game progresses and the G-man lim looks goodish on you for next day.

I‘d rather gun for other players then.

Your post before this one made it seem as though you were operating with the mindset that both of yesterday’s wagons were mafia. Maybe I misread.

@Vivax Am I to understand that you are still not entertaining worldviews where Sloonei is town?

S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 2:03 pm
That is not exactly what I meant, blanket suspicions. I meant more like several small meh votes and suspicions, not really baddie hunting. Poor wording on my part. Not committing to a suspicion. This is the first time I recall you taking a strong stand about someone.

Unfortunately it’s me :ha ha:

But I’m glad to see it.

Linki @Golden i would tend to agree re G man painting a target on Sloonei.

Perhaps I have also been unclear about something. I hardly consider you my top suspect right now. If Day started this instant, my vote would be on Bea. I also have not finished digging into G-man’s ISO just yet.

But also, I thought I was very vocal about having a strong suspicion against G-man for most of yesterday. Perhaps some of that got lost because my case against him came out incidentally in a large ISO post, and I was also casting a wide net yesterday. But I assure you I felt strongly about my read on G yesterday.

Wilgy tastes exceedingly town.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:15 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:06 pm
S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:04 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:59 am Why was I a better option than G-man?
I am feeling DH the more I play this game.

Just this morning I said that I did not feel any of the other possible wagons forming, and when someone else voted for you, I moved my vote so if there were two wagons, they would both be people I suspected.

That’s why you. I suspected you. I felt if I helped form a second wagon on someone I suspected, then someone I suspected was bound to be lynched.
Why was it important to have two options when you were okay with the first option?
I have to explain this? I wanted to lynch a baddie. If I think two people are bad and they both have strong wagons, a civ can’t accidentally be lynched. I wanted to head off a civ wagon.

Also I hope I did not offend you, it wasn’t my intention. I was just stating my belief. I’ll pull back off of that.

Linki @ sig

I was a bit frustrated, but I also really did need to leave. I had a job interview. I think it went well.

But the accusation that I have been suspecting everyone is not only false. But it is contrary to some of the other accusations ai have faced in this game. I have been under scrutiny for vocalizing a strong town read on Quin. Vivax expressed suspicion of me for having a town read on Bea. On Day 1, people were critical of me for not having a strong suspect (my top suspect that day ended up flipping indie, fwiw).

And beyond that, I just did a ton of work last night to read G-man and produced a handful of town reads from the exercise. I did not feel it was fair to accuse me of casting blanket suspicion against everyone.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 1:26 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 1:12 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 12:53 pm Current vote total as of ~7 hours left in Day 3:

GMan (4): SVS, Richochet, Scotty, DrWilgy
sig (3): Vivax, Kate, Golden
SVS (2): DFaraday, sig
Kate (1): Quin
Quin (1): GMan
Vivax (1): Sloonei

Not Voting (3): bea, Elo, Michelle

Currently insanified: Michelle, sig
Can somebody who is not me reflect on the fact that Sloonei was not a wagon at this point, and only became one in the latter half of the day as a direct counter to the G-man wagon?
Sure. I suspected G Man, I also suspected you more than sig or definitely my civ self. Myself, Scotty and Vivax all started posting some suspicion of you. One of them (I think Scotty but I am not sure) voted for you. I moved to you deciding that if a G Man lynch failed, I would prefer a Sloonei lynch. So I moved my vote. You may not agree with this reasoning, but you’re acting like a man in shock, repeating the same question in various forms over and over.

I can’t answer for anyone who voted for you after me, but apparently several people think you’re shady AF.

I’m referring simply to the “wagonomics” of it, not looking for individual vote analysis. For me to be bad, the mafia team had to have either been sitting on their hands all day yesterday, or their strategy was to put two of their own against each other as the elimination options. Look at it like this:

Sloonei did not become a candidate until halfway through the day, after G-man had already been on the brink all day. I think this should indicate that Sloonei was pushed as the counterwagon in an effort to save G-man.

The initial wagon (G-man) was a hit. After it had been stewing for a while, a second wagon emerged as a counter to it. What is more likely: that the mafia team’s thread presence was so weak that it enabled one of its own to become a counterwagon to their dying partner, or that the mafia team seized the momentum against a town player who was already pushing one of their own?

Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 12:53 pm Current vote total as of ~7 hours left in Day 3:

GMan (4): SVS, Richochet, Scotty, DrWilgy
sig (3): Vivax, Kate, Golden
SVS (2): DFaraday, sig
Kate (1): Quin
Quin (1): GMan
Vivax (1): Sloonei

Not Voting (3): bea, Elo, Michelle

Currently insanified: Michelle, sig

Can somebody who is not me reflect on the fact that Sloonei was not a wagon at this point, and only became one in the latter half of the day as a direct counter to the G-man wagon?

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:33 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:06 pm
S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:04 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:59 am Why was I a better option than G-man?
I am feeling DH the more I play this game.

Just this morning I said that I did not feel any of the other possible wagons forming, and when someone else voted for you, I moved my vote so if there were two wagons, they would both be people I suspected.

That’s why you. I suspected you. I felt if I helped form a second wagon on someone I suspected, then someone I suspected was bound to be lynched.
Why was it important to have two options when you were okay with the first option?
Like…what? What kind of question is this, Mr. ‘I’m going to vote for other people throughout the day even though I have a main suspicion’?

I wanted SVS to answer. Hypocrisy is a stable of the town playbook and all that.

I have a hypothetical that I’d like to pose to the thread right now. I think it would be interesting to pursue new worlds where the following is true:

Sloonei is town.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:05 pm And yeah, it is No U, since you’ve expressed suspicion of pretty much everyone lol

I am leaving now.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:04 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:59 am Why was I a better option than G-man?
I am feeling DH the more I play this game.

Just this morning I said that I did not feel any of the other possible wagons forming, and when someone else voted for you, I moved my vote so if there were two wagons, they would both be people I suspected.

That’s why you. I suspected you. I felt if I helped form a second wagon on someone I suspected, then someone I suspected was bound to be lynched.

Why was it important to have two options when you were okay with the first option?

S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:00 pm Ebwop, and fwiw, Sloon, I still think you could be bad and this overt “No U” isn’t helping. Eloh I think is a civ, and I’ve thought so since I first came in thread.

Civs dont have to be all kumbaya all the time, but I’d appreciate it if you’d read my posts (see I really AM replacing DH).

I plan on revising my player standings before end of night, finishing my read if Michelle, and starting a read of Quin.

This is not a “No U”. I have been expressing suspicion of your slot since Day 2. It was heightened by G-man’s flip. Maybe we should read each other’s posts. For now, I just want to know what caused you to choose to vote for me over G-man in the moment yesterday.

Why was I a better option than G-man?

S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:56 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:42 am
Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:38 am
S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 10:15 am Addendum to the post about why G Mans bad team wouldn’t try to lynch someone else.

This is driving me nuts. I’m trying to figure out why a bad team wouldn’t try to start a third wagon if both Sloon and G were bad, or try harder to pile on Sloonei if only G was bad.

Maybe he was alone, or only had one teammate there? Like others were low posters or had time zone issues?

Because I’ve been playing Mafia a long time and have never seen a baddie with an alternative train do … nothing. I’m spitballing about maybe low posters etc because I just don’t understand Gs behavior there.
Yes, this makes sense. Thinking back on g-man's play, it seems like he was doing just enough to try to get by trying to look civ without rocking the boat too much to gain suspicion. As if he were going it pretty much alone and trying to hold it all together. This doesn't help alleviate my gut suspicion of DH, now SVS. And neither does SVS' lack of voting Gman. I don't know why I can't shake it. Does ANYone else feel the same way?
Not only did SVS not vote G-man, but G-man also performed a lovely mental gymnastics routine to avoid voting for DH the day before.
I actually was the first to vote G Man, and I switched to Sloonei to get a wagon going on a second person I suspected instead of letting it form on someone I didn’t.

I’m definitely not G Mans teammate, and neither was DH. I have no clue why G didn’t vote for DH.

In any case in my first big post I said I thought G was shady. So you can believe it, or not, but I’m civ.

I was the first to vote for G-man, actually. I voted the instant the poll opened.

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:23 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:15 am Y’all really like pretzels, don’t you?
my dentist says I need to avoid hard foods like pretzels for about 2 weeks

Maybe you should also stop trying to twist yourself into knots then!

Boom, roasted

Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:38 am
S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 10:15 am Addendum to the post about why G Mans bad team wouldn’t try to lynch someone else.

This is driving me nuts. I’m trying to figure out why a bad team wouldn’t try to start a third wagon if both Sloon and G were bad, or try harder to pile on Sloonei if only G was bad.

Maybe he was alone, or only had one teammate there? Like others were low posters or had time zone issues?

Because I’ve been playing Mafia a long time and have never seen a baddie with an alternative train do … nothing. I’m spitballing about maybe low posters etc because I just don’t understand Gs behavior there.
Yes, this makes sense. Thinking back on g-man's play, it seems like he was doing just enough to try to get by trying to look civ without rocking the boat too much to gain suspicion. As if he were going it pretty much alone and trying to hold it all together. This doesn't help alleviate my gut suspicion of DH, now SVS. And neither does SVS' lack of voting Gman. I don't know why I can't shake it. Does ANYone else feel the same way?

Not only did SVS not vote G-man, but G-man also performed a lovely mental gymnastics routine to avoid voting for DH the day before.

Y’all really like pretzels, don’t you?

S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 10:15 am Addendum to the post about why G Mans bad team wouldn’t try to lynch someone else.

This is driving me nuts. I’m trying to figure out why a bad team wouldn’t try to start a third wagon if both Sloon and G were bad, or try harder to pile on Sloonei if only G was bad.

Maybe he was alone, or only had one teammate there? Like others were low posters or had time zone issues?

Because I’ve been playing Mafia a long time and have never seen a baddie with an alternative train do … nothing. I’m spitballing about maybe low posters etc because I just don’t understand Gs behavior there.

Why can’t I just be town?

Reads so far based on the above:
Golden looks good.
Wilgy looks good.
Vivax and sig might look slightly good.

Bea looks bad. SVS/DH might look bad. Eloh might look bad.

Inconclusive for everyone else.

Vociferations of G-man: A Study

Spoiler: show

The first players he addresses in the game are Quin and Golden. My name also comes up, but not as a Player In This Game. He's reminiscing about an old game that he hosted which Quin and I played. It was one of the best games I've ever been a part of on the Syndicate. Look at it. Neither mention here is strictly on-topic. Just banter with a couple Cool Dudes. The Quin blurb might have a little more meat on it, in that G-man is directly bringing up a past scum performance of Quin's. Would he do that to a teammate? Possibly. But also, possibly not. We shall see.

Spoiler: show

G-Man wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 12:40 pm Vanishing off to Disney on Ice soon, so I’m checking in while my family eats lunch (haha, suckers).

Quin wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 12:07 am
G-Man wrote: ↑ Very good to see the Oceania contingent checking in.

@Quin- Your post about Sloonei reminded me of your epic performance in Mad Max all those years ago. For a second I misremembered that you and Sloonei dueled it out in grand fashion, but then I recalled that it was you and Dom (why isn't he in this game?) that went toe-to-toe. Sloonei just edged you out by virtue of a lucky protection (provided by LoRab no less, who I haven't seen around here much since that game).

@Golden the Coward- There is a third path for you to take. Just sneak the game in during those few fleeting moments of private time. Your wife and kids will never suspect that you're playing mafia. Mine haven't caught on yet, and I've been doing it for my second kid's entire life.
Everyone seems to think Mad Max is my apex scum performance. In my opinion, my apex was every other game where I played so horribly I may as well have been.

Why are you reminded of it?

I remember that Mad Max came down to you vs Sloonei, but my brain short-circuited for a minute and led me to believe that the epic back-and-forth near endgame was you two but then I remembered it was you vs Dom.

fingersplints wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:03 am
Golden wrote: ↑ Hi all. In my head I’m gonna do a vomps and post once a day. In reality I’m gonna get super invested and ignore my kids and job.

This is surreal.
I plan to get only mildly invested but still ignore my kids.
This is the way.

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:31 am No aapje game is scuffed
The validity of this post is nullified by the fact that she should be here playing this game with us instead of those new-fangled people.

My votes in D0 poll are:
-Diamond Dog: if you knew him, you’d know why
-SVS: because she’s still probably my favorite baddie teammate of all time.
-Canucklehead: fierce and smart
-Long Con: levity

This is a big post, but the only pertinent part of it is the exchange with Quin. It still tells me very little. It could be a staged casual interaction between two teammates. It does not need to be that.

Spoiler: show

Perks up at the licking of DrWilgy. Seems confused by the act. I think the double question indicates a bit of anxiety on G's part, suggesting that he's uncomfortable with Wilgy's attention. Early good look for the Doc.

Spoiler: show

G-Man wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 10:20 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 12:02 pm
thellama73 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 10:21 am
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:28 pm I have an idea of who the mafia is, but it's not who I'm voting at the moment. Though, the person I'm voting may also be mafia, who knows.
I do not like this post, nor do I like the vote for Bea. Mind you, I think voting for Bea in general is reasonable because people always tend to trust her, which makes her dangerous on the occasions when she is mafia, but Axey’s vote came without explanation and was a pile on after a (marginally) more justified vote.

Also, why would you not vote for who you think the mafia is?
I’ve learned to just disregard Axe in D1 because he does this as town, mafia, independent and axehole

thellama73 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 2:09 pm
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 1:27 pm That is some effective R o L e F I S h i N g

For anyone who misunderstood my intent.
I understand the concept of throwing out votes in movable-vote games to gauge reactions, but at the same time that can be a cop out way to excuse bad behavior. If you successfully start a wagon with your vote, you get what you want, but if it doesn't take you can just claim it was for role fishing and claim immunity from any criticism. Don't expect me not to evaluate you based on your behavior just because you claim it doesn't mean anything.
Viral infections sometimes have a sweeter disposition than NAA early on in games. It is true that he comes across in the same abrasive manner regardless of alignment. If you play a few games with him, you will either 1) learn to ignore some of his punchier tendencies, or 2) auto-sus him anyway because even though it's NAI, it's also not a reason to NOT sus him.

And let's keep in mind that there is a 3P role out there when we're reading people; we're not just living in a binary system.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 3:16 pm
An unserious post can generate serious discussion.
I don't know what to make of you yet. I like that you're constantly in motion, but it's too early to determine if it's just artifice this time around.

Michelle wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 4:05 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 3:54 pm There would be nothing more ‘classic mafia’ than DF being D1 lynched for low posting.
Hopefully they posts and we can make a read because lynching a low poster at random is a coin flip.
I want to chop a baddie today, but if we have to mischop, then I'd rather we be wrong about a player whose interactions we can parse through for clues than someone who leaves us stranded in a field with a bag of sand to pound.

Another big post. This has more stuff in it.

First is a bit of an inconclusive acknowledgement of NAA's (now Vivax) meta. G-man talks about his abrasiveness, but does not commit to a stance one way or the other here.
Then he offers an unsolicited town read on DH. This seems to have been unprompted and came somewhat out of left field. DH was under no pressure. I'm inclined to read it favorably for DH/SVS. It looks less awkward for Mafia G-man to offer such unsolicited town read on town player than on a partner here.
He ends by responding to Michelle with a semi-relevant philosophy post. Michelle and Golden have a brief exchange about DH, then G-man weighs in with his bit about preferring to target high-volume posters. It hardly constitutes a substantial interaction, but it marks the first G-man/Michelle interaction in the game.

Spoiler: show

G-man responds to Golden's Eloh vote with some Eloh defense. If they are teammates, this is perhaps a bit more coordinated and subtle for Day 1 distancing than I'd usually expect. Not impossible, but I'm gonna call it unlikely.
For Eloh, this looks bad on the surface. But then, I must also ask if Mafia G-man sticks up for his teammate so directly in the thread here? That might also seem unlikely. I'll keep an eye on this.

Spoiler: show

I can easily see this as a mafia interaction. Bea responds to G-man's adverb chatter with some fluff. G responds to her fluff with more fluff. They are acknowledging each other and technically talking about the game, but they are doing so without actually engaging one another in a meaningful way. Bad look for Bea.

Spoiler: show

Hooray for groupings. G-man's "Vote for High-Volume Players" approach means he cannot vote for LoRab (RIP), DF, and Kate. Llama (RIP) gets a town read, and Eloh gets another "I don't see the case" read, but not quite a town read. Vivax1.0 (RIP) gets a pass for being new.
That leaves him with a pool featuring Scotty, myself, Golden, DH/SVS, Bea, Michelle, and NAA/Vivax2.0. That's an awfully wide net, and not a single real suspicion. All of these players are still alive. This list almost certainly includes a teammate or two. By process of elimination, it almost has to. I know it is not me, and I am confident it is not Golden.

Spoiler: show

Confident it's not Golden, you say? Look at G-man over here voting for Golden on Day 1 as if that was a sensible thing to do. I already talked about this post in my previous G-man ISO as one of the main points of suspicion against him. Looking at it now, this looks like an awkward vote where G-man is twisting himself up in knots trying to justify something that has no justification. I think it is a good look for Golden. I would need to look at his reaction to be comfortable saying that, though.

Spoiler: show

Empty Scotty interaction. Noted. Moving on.

Spoiler: show

Very interesting. NAA gets G-man to briefly forget his commitment to the letter V. Does this tell us anything about their relationship? It suggests that G-man is responding very naturally without giving it thought. That could suggest that his guard is completely down here, and he is not overly conscious of his interaction with NAA/Vivax. That would be a positive look for the slot. It could also be that he was trying to put on a laid back, nonchalant affect, and went too far. I'm inclined to say this is a very slightly positive look for NAA/Vivax. But I'm gonna toss it out in the thread right now to give it more attention.

Spoiler: show

More groupings. Scotty, Sloonei, Golden, and DH are in the top tier based purely on volume. G-man arbitrarily suggests that one of us is mafia. Note that this is a different stance than his Day 1 High-Volume-Preference. On Day 1, he preferred to vote for high volume players because their flips would provide us with more information. On Day 2, he has now adopted the opinion that the high volume players certainly contain a mafier. Maybe he's telling us the truth. Maybe he's not. As Day 3 developed, I got the impression that G-man was using this stance in an attempt to sow distrust against the most vocal players in the game.

The middle tier of Vivax, Eloh, Michelle, and Quin get aggressively neutral stances. G-man does little more than list their names here. Now that's a group that likely contains a bad guy.

Kate, Sig, Bea, and Wilgy are similarly glossed over. Sig seems to be the closest thing to a suspect in this quartet. That might be a good look for him.

DF is the only "low poster" left alive here. G-man simply states that he should be more active.

These group read posts made it quite easy for G-man to avoid directly implicating his partners. There are scant details, though. I think sig and wilgy look better than bea and kate, for instance.

Spoiler: show

When given the opportunity to vote between DH and LoRab, G-man chose LoRab. This was another major point in my case against G: everything he had said and done up to this point suggested that he should have voted for DH here. But he didn't. This is a very bad look for DH/SVS.

And now we're getting into G's big ISO posts on Day 3. It is nearly 2 AM and my eyes are too heavy to sift through those posts. I'll pick this back up tomorrow afternoon.

G-Man wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 6:57 pm
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 6:29 pm It's a fun mafia skills contest.
Zero skills here as well, but I have work I should be doing, so why not serve up a distraction. Whatcha got?

NAA unintentionally made G-man drop his V shtick. Do we think that tells us anything about whether or not they are teammates?

G-man’s insistence that one of the top posters must be bad felt odd every time he brought it up. It felt even more odd when he narrowed the pool down to just me and golden. I plan on doing my thang with associative reads later.

I do not object to Golden exploring his sig suspicion Day 3.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 9:32 pm We can Yeet Bea next right?

Bea tastes of cute kitten avatar which I find to be delicious with lemon.

I am open to it. That vote was awful at face value.

Wilgy cast the deciding vote to send G-man over. The Doctor can be town.

Vindication is sweet, but I am sad it comes at the expense of @G-Man. It is always a treat to be i. A game with you!

Neat.

So about those people who voted for little old me…

bea wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 8:50 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 7:41 pm @bea Why are you putting your faith in Revolution Mafia instead of the Moderator. One is a 1-shot ability that may have already been spent. The other is a designated tiebreaker.
Misremembered roles on the fly. Was catching up in my car because i was afraid id miss the vote stuck in rush hour driving across town. Basically, i fucked up.

You sure did. Never mafia and drive, bea!

S~V~S wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 8:04 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 7:56 pm
S~V~S wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 7:46 pm
bea wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 7:35 pm Dgoing with the tie. I hope rev knows better than i do.
Wow Bea, spicy!
I do not think these two are partnered based on this post.
I’m surprised you couldn’t tell that based on previous posts. Sorting Bea is important to me and I am not seeing civ Bea, but I’m also not 100% sure I’m not seeing distracted i

What do you think you’ve done so civvie that G Man is willing to die for you? I am perplexed by his fatalism.

Nothing. The point he’s making, as I understand it, is that Town Sloonei is hypothetically a more valuable asset than Town G-man. But that is based on an outdated model of Town Sloonei. I’ve been in semi-retirement for two years.

I don’t think he’s being honest anyway.

Bea might be mafia after all

S~V~S wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 7:46 pm
bea wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 7:35 pm Dgoing with the tie. I hope rev knows better than i do.
Wow Bea, spicy!

I do not think these two are partnered based on this post.

Here is my G-man ISO in case anyone wants a quick juxtaposition of the two of us.

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