The Syndicate

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:26 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:24 am And yes, I am testing you again Marmot.
What do you hope yo accomplish?

A more confident read on you one way or the other.

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:25 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:24 am
Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:23 am Whew, good thing I left for a bit
How do you read me now, while we’re at it?

Begrudgingly town. I thought I'd leave my vote on you for a little while for the aesthetics, but that didn't generate anything

Why am I town?
What are the aesthetics of voting for me and why did they matter?

And yes, I am testing you again Marmot.

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:23 am Whew, good thing I left for a bit

How do you read me now, while we’re at it?

DaughterOfOmega wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:15 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:06 am Someone in this thread right now is not town.
Slooney says this as he joins the thread

You never told me how you read me earlier.

KZA wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:07 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:06 am Someone in this thread right now is not town.
probably the rock squirrel

I keep coming back to him too.

Someone in this thread right now is not town.

[VOTE: chopchop] aubergine

Game is silly and I’m tired of thinking about it.

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:10 am What role-related stuff did Grogu do?

Said “I’m green” and then dipped for the rest of the game.

Am I perhaps speaking a foreign language this game?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:28 am Vice President Daniel Bird

You're one heartbeat away from the American Presidency, and frankly, that's not something that many Enclave citizens or troops find encouraging. P-O-T-A-T-O-E

You are a 1-shot long commuter. They don't let you out of your office much, but that makes it very difficult for others to reach you. Once during the game during any night phase, you may enact this ability to be unaffected by any night actions targeting you. If you do so, you may not perform the factional kill either that night phase or the next.

Separately, you are a 2-shot messenger. At least you can still communicate from your terminal. Twice during the game during any separate night phases, you may craft a personal message. You may then select a player to receive that message from the host the following day phase. The message can be anything you want.

If you've got this role, you are almost obligated to pretend to be one of the civilian roles with the messenger ability. So I struggle to award Chop any points for using it in a way that a civilian allegedly would. What other choice does he have?

As far as claiming he sent the message to Daisy, a Mafia ChopChop could have believed that Daisy had already or soon would identify him as the messenger. That is a difficult spot, and I could easily see a wolf in that position thinking it better to get out ahead of the claim if he thinks he is already incriminated.

ChopChop wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:32 pm Jack - Scum
Falcon - Town
Urist - Lean Town
Jack - Lean Scum
Daisy - Leany Town
EPig - Leany Null Town

what about jack?

ChopChop wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:10 pm WOW YEAH!
Why don’t I hide my fuckin role like a shady shit and then when asked for my role claim something that absolutely makes no sense so I can be Yeeted late game and lose the game for town.

YA!
What a great idea!

This is not a productive area of discussion.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:06 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:13 pm
ChopChop wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:11 pm If your gonna tell me you would ignore it and not claim at all.
We both know that’s BS.
That would probably be my response, tbh.

But more importantly, I am still unclear on why you chose the strategy that you did. Why did you want to target a null read to "get more info on them"? Why not targeting a town read to help clear yourself? Why did you fish for daisy's role? Why relay your reads to her so that she could act as your mouthpiece? And why Daisy out of all the "null reads" in the game?
@ChopChop i would appreciate an answer to this barrage of questions if you could. please and thanks

I care a thousand times more about this than a What If scenario.

ChopChop wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:08 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:07 pm
ChopChop wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:06 pm Anyway, @staypositivefriend
@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

I want to remind you that Alison suggested that if they were in my position they would have fake claimed flavourless VT which is the absolute dumbest thing a town can do.
Scum probably have fake claims and as scum I could have just switched to that instead of hard claiming.
I also said I'd do that and I'm literally and indisputably the best mafia player in the world.
That’s the stupidest thing to do.
As soon as you claim, you die.

Actually what I said was that i wouldn't claim at all.

ChopChop wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:06 pm Anyway, @staypositivefriend
@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

I want to remind you that Alison suggested that if they were in my position they would have fake claimed flavourless VT which is the absolute dumbest thing a town can do.
Scum probably have fake claims and as scum I could have just switched to that instead of hard claiming.

I also said I'd do that and I'm literally and indisputably the best mafia player in the world.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:13 pm
ChopChop wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:11 pm If your gonna tell me you would ignore it and not claim at all.
We both know that’s BS.
That would probably be my response, tbh.

But more importantly, I am still unclear on why you chose the strategy that you did. Why did you want to target a null read to "get more info on them"? Why not targeting a town read to help clear yourself? Why did you fish for daisy's role? Why relay your reads to her so that she could act as your mouthpiece? And why Daisy out of all the "null reads" in the game?

@ChopChop i would appreciate an answer to this barrage of questions if you could. please and thanks

ChopChop wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:04 pm Thought Alison SR’ed Tony.
Guess it might have actually been signalling.

what does this mean?

[VOTE: urist] aubergine for emphasis

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:10 pm I'm borrowing my wife's phone to see if I like it before ordering a new one (I've used two iPhones for the last decade so I'm a bit set in my ways) and while it does seem pretty nice outside of the location of some stuff on the keyboard throwing me off the relevant information here is that now her phone will autocorrect to omgus which I think is super

Your wife has been playing mafia in secret all these years.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:05 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:03 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:59 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:54 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:35 pm Epi's slanking has me perturbed
I'd be more perturbed if he wasn't tbh
Slanking is his MO? Wasn't aware. I'll accept this for now, but c'mon...there's gotta be an end to it at some point, right?
No, but also yes. Epi's a grown ass adult with a grown ass adult life to live. He's busy running the Game of Champions right now on top of that. He hasn't been going all out in games lately. He almost definitely signed up for this game with the intention of taking it easy.
Are you trying to say that, since you've had the time to post over 500X, you are not a grown ass adult with a grown ass life?

Precisely that.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:00 pm Sloonei and Epignosis are just bullies imo

Yeah well I hear you drink piss, so

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:59 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:54 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:35 pm Epi's slanking has me perturbed
I'd be more perturbed if he wasn't tbh
Slanking is his MO? Wasn't aware. I'll accept this for now, but c'mon...there's gotta be an end to it at some point, right?

No, but also yes. Epi's a grown ass adult with a grown ass adult life to live. He's busy running the Game of Champions right now on top of that. He hasn't been going all out in games lately. He almost definitely signed up for this game with the intention of taking it easy.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:51 pm You know what this town needs?

A hero.

[VOTE: VOTE ALISON] aubergine

Urist wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:47 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:40 pm
Urist wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:35 pm for context, the reason i was pressuring chop to summarize his message is because i thought it was suspicious that spacedaisy was able to pick out the fact that esooa was missing from a reads list.
like if i get a list of 24 people, i'm not checking to make sure each and every one of them is there.
if chop had said something like "i said x, y, z, a, b, c were town and d, e, f, g were mafia and h, i, j, k, l, m, n, o, q were null" i would be really suspicious of the daisy/chop potential big brain play.
I thought it was at least partially clear from the context of the conversation around the claim that Daisy had received a limited list of players which should have included Esooa but did not. I do not remember specifics, but it seemed like the focus was on the BoKnows wagon.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:16 am Yo, to whoever sent me the message last night, I don't know why I should trust you. See you slipped up and skipped over Esooa in your recap. How did you Esooa was gonna die last night and not be relevant to the conversation? If you were Luke you wouldn't have known. I call bullshit on your message and your attempt to solicit a role claim from me.
she didn't mention anything like that no

There was quite a bit more discussion about this moment than just the initial post.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:45 pm littl a e of that.

i don't even know how this happened.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:37 pm i am still getting the sense that this particular pairing is ~too easy~ - but i've been scumleaning urist for a lot of this game so i'm still working out what to do with that feeling

This is my first time playing with Urist and I've had a tough time figuring him out. On the one hand he reminds me a bit of nutella in that he's been chucking out reads on a whim for much of the game, but he differs from her in that nutella usually will then put work in to show her thought process. Urist has done very littl a e of that. That's not inherently suspicious and it's perfectly valid for civilians to play a tight-lipped game... to an extent. That ceases to be productive after a while. I feel a bit like Urist's defense of Chop is his most substantial contribution to the game so far, but idk if that's fair. It might just be recency bias.

DaughterOfOmega wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:41 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:40 pm it's very weird that nobody has pressured me or scumread me today
I am a nobody sadge

Let's hear it then!

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:40 pm it's very weird that nobody has pressured me or scumread me today

Urist wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:35 pm for context, the reason i was pressuring chop to summarize his message is because i thought it was suspicious that spacedaisy was able to pick out the fact that esooa was missing from a reads list.
like if i get a list of 24 people, i'm not checking to make sure each and every one of them is there.
if chop had said something like "i said x, y, z, a, b, c were town and d, e, f, g were mafia and h, i, j, k, l, m, n, o, q were null" i would be really suspicious of the daisy/chop potential big brain play.

I thought it was at least partially clear from the context of the conversation around the claim that Daisy had received a limited list of players which should have included Esooa but did not. I do not remember specifics, but it seemed like the focus was on the BoKnows wagon.

DaughterOfOmega wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:37 pm sloony i dont really have a thing on Rej, feels like a ton of pressure on him tho

Are there any players you do have substantial thoughts on?

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:27 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:24 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:22 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:21 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:20 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:16 pm also, i am playing in a shorter and snippier way instead of writing long, well-thought analytical posts. it's just the type of playstyle i feel is gonna work best for me in this game

but at the same time, im an open book. feel free to ask me questions about anything if any of my reads are not clear
this could actually be an argument for urist not being teamed with chopchop, maybe? because i think urist was the one who prompted chopchop to post his message in the first place
meh. If ChopChop is outed then his teammates want to get out ahead of it. Pressuring him to post his message is an easy way to do that.
perhaps

but if urist wanted to get ahead of it, why defend chopchop in the first place?

maybe im just talking myself out of an easy level 0 partner read, but it does feel a little too obvious
Alison and I had this conversation already. Well, I posed discussion questions to the thread and she gave the obvious answers. Bussing Chop is the "Level 1" play. Defending him is "Level 2." In either case, we can't really say for sure what his teammates would do and it's basically a straight wifom decision: which choice would they make?
i agree, but the specific conversation we're having about urist right now implies that urist is being pulled in two different directions. does he want to get ahead of his partner being outed wolf by pressuring him to out his message, or does he want to defend chopchop and shield him?

because when you say that urist possibly wanted to "get ahead" of his partner being outed, then i take that to mean that he wanted to bus his partner early on - but that seems to conflict with the mindset in his most recent posts

I do not see these as conflicting mindsets. Hypothetically, a Mafia Urist can recognize that his partner has just slipped and so he decides to start interacting with him in whatever ways they can to appear not-aligned. Pressuring him to share his message is one way to do that. Defending him when the overwhelming trajectory of the thread is that he's going down is another way to do it.
And if he is using the outted message as justification for town-reading him, then I think it's difficult to say his mindset is even contradictory there. If anything, that's a consistent progression.

I am not committed to the idea that Urist is mafia. It's a possibility I'm considering. I'm assuming his alignment for the sake of discussion in this post, obviously.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:21 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:17 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:16 pm also, i am playing in a shorter and snippier way instead of writing long, well-thought analytical posts. it's just the type of playstyle i feel is gonna work best for me in this game

but at the same time, im an open book. feel free to ask me questions about anything if any of my reads are not clear
how's my rainbow?
it's fine. my rainbow would look different, but yours is in the ballpark of my mindset right now. i would have jack, epignois and kza lower. i would have myself, mac, and long con higher.

why would these names be lower?

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:22 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:21 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:20 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:16 pm also, i am playing in a shorter and snippier way instead of writing long, well-thought analytical posts. it's just the type of playstyle i feel is gonna work best for me in this game

but at the same time, im an open book. feel free to ask me questions about anything if any of my reads are not clear
this could actually be an argument for urist not being teamed with chopchop, maybe? because i think urist was the one who prompted chopchop to post his message in the first place
meh. If ChopChop is outed then his teammates want to get out ahead of it. Pressuring him to post his message is an easy way to do that.
perhaps

but if urist wanted to get ahead of it, why defend chopchop in the first place?

maybe im just talking myself out of an easy level 0 partner read, but it does feel a little too obvious

Alison and I had this conversation already. Well, I posed discussion questions to the thread and she gave the obvious answers. Bussing Chop is the "Level 1" play. Defending him is "Level 2." In either case, we can't really say for sure what his teammates would do and it's basically a straight wifom decision: which choice would they make?

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:20 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:16 pm also, i am playing in a shorter and snippier way instead of writing long, well-thought analytical posts. it's just the type of playstyle i feel is gonna work best for me in this game

but at the same time, im an open book. feel free to ask me questions about anything if any of my reads are not clear
this could actually be an argument for urist not being teamed with chopchop, maybe? because i think urist was the one who prompted chopchop to post his message in the first place

meh. If ChopChop is outed then his teammates want to get out ahead of it. Pressuring him to post his message is an easy way to do that.

DaughterOfOmega wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:17 pm ngl, I tried to start getting into this game, and people have non stopped talked about WIFOM about a claimed power

what an interesting day 2

Thoughts on Rej?

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:16 pm also, i am playing in a shorter and snippier way instead of writing long, well-thought analytical posts. it's just the type of playstyle i feel is gonna work best for me in this game

but at the same time, im an open book. feel free to ask me questions about anything if any of my reads are not clear

how's my rainbow?

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:15 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:11 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:04 pm sloonei, why is poison green?

Spoiler: show
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:15 am
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:11 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:10 am
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:05 am sloonei, do you have any thoughts about poison's posts on the last page or two?
I like the energy she is bringing, but I have not seen her do anything that would give me a strong indication of her alignment one way or the other. GTH town.
yeah, i liked them too, mostly because her tone feels unrestrained. was curious if you were thinking the same
Actually if there is something more than just “energy” that I would read in her favor: I like that she’s been unafraid to ask questions about things that have already been covered/comment on things she hasn’t read yet. Maybe that’s what you mean by “unrestrained”. It feels like she is here to follow her own leads at her own pace, and doesn’t care about optics or anything other than getting answers.

How confident are you in this read?

not very

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:04 pm sloonei, why is poison green?

Spoiler: show

Urist wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:06 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:02 pm
Urist wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:00 pm alison, i'll assume for the sake of argument that chopchop is enclave.
what is the benefit to executing him today?
...
is there some other benefit to eliminating him that i'm not thinking of?
You mean besides the part where eliminating the Enclave is literally our primary goal in the game?
tbh i'm not convinced that eliminating chopchop furthers that goal either but who cares what i think

We were supposed to be assuming he’s enclave in this thought exercise.

KZA wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:06 pm oh the bottom 5 names are in fact 2 different colours ignore me

Yeah sorry those weren’t supposed to look so similar

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:04 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:02 pm
Urist wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:00 pm alison, i'll assume for the sake of argument that chopchop is enclave.
what is the benefit to executing him today?
...
is there some other benefit to eliminating him that i'm not thinking of?
You mean besides the part where eliminating the Enclave is literally our primary goal in the game?
I think he's saying, if you think Chop is Enclave, why not catch the rest of the team first who have more scary roles/abilities, and eliminate him at your leisure.

Because if Chop is Enclave then we have a caught wolf right in front of us. You take that every time.

Urist wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:00 pm alison, i'll assume for the sake of argument that chopchop is enclave.
what is the benefit to executing him today?
...
is there some other benefit to eliminating him that i'm not thinking of?

You mean besides the part where eliminating the Enclave is literally our primary goal in the game?

Alison
Spacedaisy
Dom
Epignosis
falcon45ca
Jackofhearts2005
KZA
MartinGG99
Poison
staypositivefriend
TonyStarkPrime
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
DaughterOfOmega
Grogu
reywaS / Kylemii
Urist
MacDougall
Marmot
Long Con
Rej
ChopChop

This rainbow does not inspire confidence. Too many of those light greens could easily be moved down. All three oranges have a little bit of OMGUS in them from me. The middle copper tier has too many names in it.

At least I feel good about the top two and bottom two.

I think of the trio of Mac/Marmot/LC, the player I'd be most comfortable moving up to green is Marmot.

I just do not think ChopChop is a player whose strategic decisions in this game align with what I would reasonably consider for myself as any alignment. That is to say I don't know what to expect from him or how to confidently judge his actions one way or the other. None of the things he has done are moves that I would make in his position regardless of alignment.

So I can only take him at face value. And at face value, he has claimed a role and action that could very plausibly belong to a member of one of the mafia factions. It remains possible that this is not the case, that he's just fallen accidentally and by unfortunate coincidence into a tremendous mess. But unless there is something unforeseen out there that we can use to definitively clear him, I will not be able to keep myself from asking if it really is just that easy for as long as ChopChop remains in this game.

The inverse of this is how do the Enclave members react if Chop is town. I imagine they’d be on board with his wagon, but they might be a little slower/not at the forefront.

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:54 pm Every decision you make in a mafia game is to increase the probability of achieving your win condition. You save scum teammates because they can help you reach parity, or they have useful abilities, or they have good thread control/presence, or some combination of the three. ChopChop will never help a mafia team reach parity because he will never survive to the point where parity is being counted. We know that if he's scum he doesn't have exciting abilities. And he is so widely distrusted that he has no thread influence.

Therefore you hard bus.

But they might expect us to expect them to hard bus.

Let's assume ChopChop is mafia. How do his teammate's respond to this situation?

KZA wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:30 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:29 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:27 pm I think Mac has been reasonably clear about the depth of his reads, he's specified they're first post reads, he's read 2% of the game, etc.
Yes I know. After he tried to call you Enclave and people pointed out that that's basically a mechanical impossibility. Prior to then he'd given no direct indication that they were surface-level-at-best reads.
I'm tinfoiling you again because of ridiculous nitpicks like this

Awesome.

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:27 pm I think Mac has been reasonably clear about the depth of his reads, he's specified they're first post reads, he's read 2% of the game, etc.

Yes I know. After he tried to call you Enclave and people pointed out that that's basically a mechanical impossibility. Prior to then he'd given no direct indication that they were surface-level-at-best reads.

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