The Syndicate

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 12:18 pm Stop tap dancing around Rondo and vote them everyone keeps calling the guy suspicious but nobody wants to vote there

They were the one who made the TSP wagon stronger than the DizzyMade one at EoD2. It's a bit hard for me to believe a world where Rondo is a wolf and Made is town. But then again, the vote is probably not enough towncred at this point.

The game on FFR I mentioned was difficult to solve because everyone was wolfy. This game is hard to solve because everyone is towny; I have at least a decent reason to consider most people town here. It will probably take some reevaluating and questioning previous assumptions to get to the right answer.

It would be cool if someone from the other thread could clarify the Bereft situation (and the Delta situation, and the who Windward targetted N2 situation, etc.) But we're at the point in the game where we can't be reasonably sure that other people will still come to this thread.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:35 am ohhh you mean per total

yeah so you think the wolves in this game have 2 goons and a bus driver that doesn’t affect you at all?

cmon now

It does change my target, which can prevent me from investigating the killer. Bus driving the killer with someone unlikely to be roleblocked/tracked actually protects them from both of these roles, although I suppose the tracker getting a solid result anyway is compensation for this.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:34 am
leetic wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:33 am
tedxtr wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:31 am i guess the village had only 2 PRs this game

a roleblocker and a tracker

tbh it’s not that unbalanced, but the tracker is limited in shots and the PRs would still be lower than the number of wolves
If the wolves only have one PR, that'd be pretty balanced; your word is the only evidence that a fourth PR is in play. Although we don't know enough about the wolves' roles in general to make a firm conclusion either way.
have i miscounted? who tf is our forth pr?

We have one flipped town PR and one flipped wolf PR, and my PR claim is fairly accepted. You'd be the fourth.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:31 am i guess the village had only 2 PRs this game

a roleblocker and a tracker

tbh it’s not that unbalanced, but the tracker is limited in shots and the PRs would still be lower than the number of wolves

If the wolves only have one PR, that'd be pretty balanced; your word is the only evidence that a fourth PR is in play. Although we don't know enough about the wolves' roles in general to make a firm conclusion either way.

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:28 am
leetic wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:21 am
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:17 am
tedxtr wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:12 am
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:11 am
tedxtr wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:07 am
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 12:39 am I'm also busy, starting to settle down some now. Procrastinating on reading.

I don't want to sleepwalk into made here. Simultaneously I wish I had made's flip. Jack and I expected to die and the fact that we have not says... I have no idea what it says because that unflip is wild.

Leaving it entirely aside, at a macro level, Made yesterday didn't make me feel like a wolf talking BS, gira and ted did. So that's where my head is at.
weren’t you the one that was hard pushing him at EoD?
Yes. What's your point.
so he didn’t feel like making wolfy posts but you were begging us to vote him, because?
Because atp it was clear that it was made or pyxxy and I townread pyxxy more, and wanted to solve made/bereft.
Bereft flipped… not wolf presumably, so does that affect your read of Made/Bereft?
I don't know what bereft flipped. I don't see any world or team where wolves intentionally nk bereft though.

They thought they saw a PR soft, his reads were better than everyone else's, his reads were worse than everyone else's (to throw town off the scent), wolves know something about the setup we don't, someone has bad meta experience with Bereft, etc. There are plenty of reasons why it may have happened.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:26 am
leetic wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:24 am I mean, isn't it convenient that ted claimed to visit (or attempt to visit) the two nightkill targets? "Watcher but can't watch kills" seems like one of the easiest fakeclaims for wolves to pull off, and it's a little weird that Watcher would have that clause but Tracker doesn't (even if Watcher is quite a bit more powerful).
yep, and when i claimed knowing you couldn’t have possibly tracked me, i picked those very 2 targets because i was gonna look villagery

deeeeeerrrrrrppppp

That assumes a wolf blocker, we still don't know what Windward's N2 target was. Plus, there is a logic to claiming those targets: it's reasonable to assume a doctor hadn't visited them, nor were they likely to be targets of roleblocks or investigative roles. Plus, even if your claim is real it doesn't mean you're town.

Made wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:21 am I dont think we have enough information to do game balance pr role analysis. for all we know the other thread is mountainous.

We can reasonably assume it isn't, as the signups thread says a "substantial" amount of players have PRs

tedxtr wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:24 am
Made wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:21 am I dont think we have enough information to do game balance pr role analysis. for all we know the other thread is mountainous.

we can weigh the risk of mischopping a claimed powerrole, but the ration of pr being a reason why someone is scum/town feels a step too far
incorrect, we know jack is a cop, which is better than both our investigative roles here combined

well maybe that’s a stretch but still

I thought Ranmilia said that was a fakeclaim?

I mean, isn't it convenient that ted claimed to visit (or attempt to visit) the two nightkill targets? "Watcher but can't watch kills" seems like one of the easiest fakeclaims for wolves to pull off, and it's a little weird that Watcher would have that clause but Tracker doesn't (even if Watcher is quite a bit more powerful).

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:17 am
tedxtr wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:12 am
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:11 am
tedxtr wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:07 am
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 12:39 am I'm also busy, starting to settle down some now. Procrastinating on reading.

I don't want to sleepwalk into made here. Simultaneously I wish I had made's flip. Jack and I expected to die and the fact that we have not says... I have no idea what it says because that unflip is wild.

Leaving it entirely aside, at a macro level, Made yesterday didn't make me feel like a wolf talking BS, gira and ted did. So that's where my head is at.
weren’t you the one that was hard pushing him at EoD?
Yes. What's your point.
so he didn’t feel like making wolfy posts but you were begging us to vote him, because?
Because atp it was clear that it was made or pyxxy and I townread pyxxy more, and wanted to solve made/bereft.

Bereft flipped… not wolf presumably, so does that affect your read of Made/Bereft?

tedxtr wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:17 am
leetic wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:16 am Like, he's a PR and that's cool and all, but he doesn't have to be a town PR. Plus, none of his claims could be verified, while I could at least have some corroboration from Bereft (RIP) and Abby. Also, the fact that he didn't mention being roleblocked D1 is perhaps another point against him.
yeah well you have wwa to thank for that /shrug

Why didn't you mention being roleblocked?

tedxtr wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:17 am how the fuck are you voting a Pr claim since d2

like ain’t no way any of these people are so villagery that it justifies it. i’ve been struggling to find villas all game

Wolf PRs are a thing, Einstein. And beyond your PR claim, your record in this game isn't exactly impressive.

Like, he's a PR and that's cool and all, but he doesn't have to be a town PR. Plus, none of his claims could be verified, while I could at least have some corroboration from Bereft (RIP) and Abby. Also, the fact that he didn't mention being roleblocked D1 is perhaps another point against him.

The thing is, if Made is town it does eliminate a lot of the seemingly viable pairings. Guess it's time to add tedxtr back to the POE

tedxtr wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:10 am what reaction would you have expected to get out of gira / made?

Have you ever seen a reaction test before? Whether or not they believe the claim, whether they fight back or shut down, etc. Although Gira made me end it early, I would have liked to try it on at least one more.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:08 am
leetic wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:05 am
tedxtr wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:03 am bereft is a likely villager, idc that he’s not flipped

wolves have a kill every night, guise!

my guess as to why him and why he’s not flipped is to keep cred alive in the deep people

im not killing leetic / made, leetic is a likely villa PR but i really don’t buy he tracked abi here
Wolves can kill ITPs just as well as they can kill town. I mean, Bereft was basically phoning it in yesterday, it's not hard to believe he's unaligned

And what reason would I have to lie about my Abby result?
idk. why would there be 2 roles that are 2 shot and the tracker is 3 shot?

for the same reason you lied about gira / made

I don't know, but we only have a sample size of two PR flips. And what reaction would I expect to get out of Abby here?

tedxtr wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:03 am bereft is a likely villager, idc that he’s not flipped

wolves have a kill every night, guise!

my guess as to why him and why he’s not flipped is to keep cred alive in the deep people

im not killing leetic / made, leetic is a likely villa PR but i really don’t buy he tracked abi here

Wolves can kill ITPs just as well as they can kill town. I mean, Bereft was basically phoning it in yesterday, it's not hard to believe he's unaligned

And what reason would I have to lie about my Abby result?

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:02 am I at least think that Made's reaction confirms that he wasn't the person to make the Bereft kill; if he was he would have been taken aback at least slightly

Although of course, a big reason why I didn't track Made was because even if they're a wolf they're unlikely to submit the kill anyway

I at least think that Made's reaction confirms that he wasn't the person to make the Bereft kill; if he was he would have been taken aback at least slightly

Also, Abby seeming to believe/jump on my "result" on Made is… something I guess

But yeah, I really did have a third tracker shot and used in on Abby. Wanted to make the most of it I guess

Made's reaction looks decent. Gira was a no sell.

Okay, real target was Abby, who visited nobody. I wanted to wait a bit to see if she would claim anything that contradicted my tracker result. [VOTE: Unvote] aubergine

Gira wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:50 am
leetic wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:49 am [VOTE: Made] aubergine
m8 you're tunneled as fuck

And you're outed

Made wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:49 am
Gira wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:47 am
Made wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:46 am oh idk this feels as likely as a janitor kill in my head: Have we considered it was a block/bodyguard/redirect?
FROM WHO?
me aparently?? @leetic , to answer your question directly, I have no clue why I could be tracked to Bereft. Im pure vanilla town

That's good, because the person who I actually tracked visiting Bereft was @Gira. [VOTE: Gira] aubergine

[VOTE: Made] aubergine

Made wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:47 am
leetic wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:46 am Anyway, time to come clean. I actually had a third tracker shot, which I didn't claim for what should be obvious reasons. Now @Made, riddle me this: what did I catch you doing at Bereft's last night?
We do thanksgiving at each others houses. This year it was his turn to host

You do now I have mechanical evidence against you, right?

Made wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:46 am oh idk this feels as likely as a janitor kill in my head: Have we considered it was a block/bodyguard/redirect?

So why did you visit Bereft last night?

Anyway, time to come clean. I actually had a third tracker shot, which I didn't claim for what should be obvious reasons. Now @Made, riddle me this: what did I catch you doing at Bereft's last night?

The Bereft kill does make me a little wary of a deepwolf, as it leaves me as the "obvious" nightkill alive and thus allows someone else to more easily slip into LyLo. Then again, maybe my reads just sucked at EoD.

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:38 am
leetic wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:35 am
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:33 am neither is it why I've town read Ran or Rondo for most of the game.
So are you just gonna rescind the claim?
Nah that would be boring

I think I've made it pretty obvious the claim was fake when I said I'm no longer confident my town core is pure don't you think

I think it was pretty obvious before that.

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:33 am neither is it why I've town read Ran or Rondo for most of the game.

So are you just gonna rescind the claim?

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:24 am
leetic wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:18 am
Gira wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 12:42 am
leetic wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:25 pm
Gira wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:21 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:02 pm So if Bereft an ITP?

leetic wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:04 pm Or do we have a janitor?
dunno how you would ever come to the first conclusion
What do you suggest he is then?
it's a janitored kill, guessing 3rd party makes no sense, ran deciding it wasn't town for ??reasons?? is baffling

i don't know why mafia would janitor him when he had a no motion report on him and wasn't credibly a PR but he also was the only player who hadn't really claimed anything. realistically i have no idea why mafia wouldn't janitor abigail if she's town unless her checks are actually correct, but i don't really believe a team within leetic/made/ted is remotely plausible
If the mafia had janitor, why not use it on one of the claimed PRs? Using it on someone who was almost confirmed vanilla seems like a waste
That wasn't a janitor

And how do you know that?

Bereft wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 6:04 pm also bets on whose getting NK'ed today?
its leetic correct?

LOL in hindsight

Anyway, a cursory glance through his ISO shows that Abby was the only person he was really pushing at the end

Anyway, I am pretty dumbfounded by that kill when the wolves' other kills have been fairly predictable; I would have expected me to go down, or at least Ranmilia if they want to get rid of Jack. The fact that Abby wasn't a target suggests that they didn't believe her claim, or maybe the wolf blocker was still in play.

Gira wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 12:42 am
leetic wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:25 pm
Gira wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:21 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:02 pm So if Bereft an ITP?

leetic wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:04 pm Or do we have a janitor?
dunno how you would ever come to the first conclusion
What do you suggest he is then?
it's a janitored kill, guessing 3rd party makes no sense, ran deciding it wasn't town for ??reasons?? is baffling

i don't know why mafia would janitor him when he had a no motion report on him and wasn't credibly a PR but he also was the only player who hadn't really claimed anything. realistically i have no idea why mafia wouldn't janitor abigail if she's town unless her checks are actually correct, but i don't really believe a team within leetic/made/ted is remotely plausible

If the mafia had janitor, why not use it on one of the claimed PRs? Using it on someone who was almost confirmed vanilla seems like a waste

Porscha wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 12:03 am
leetic wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 11:49 pm
Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 11:24 pm
Gira wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:18 pm
Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:05 pm lol

"???"

haha

ok guys I still think abi is town so no go there unless mech red thx
she needs to rescind her obviously fake claim
what obviously fake claim? I didn't read yesterday's thread
She claimed Cop with greens on RDB and Ranmilia, but your incredulous reaction suggests it's fake.
what have I posted that sounds incredulous?

I feel like you'd know about Abby's claim if it was real

Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 11:24 pm
Gira wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:18 pm
Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:05 pm lol

"???"

haha

ok guys I still think abi is town so no go there unless mech red thx
she needs to rescind her obviously fake claim
what obviously fake claim? I didn't read yesterday's thread

She claimed Cop with greens on RDB and Ranmilia, but your incredulous reaction suggests it's fake.

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:35 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:33 pm
RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:32 pm
Gira wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:21 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:02 pm So if Bereft an ITP?

leetic wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:04 pm Or do we have a janitor?
dunno how you would ever come to the first conclusion

anyway don't really have time for the night, while bereft was generally townread him getting NKed suggests the game was pretty upside down
What is an ITP?

How?
Independent/Third Party
why not just say 3p?

ITP is better

Maybe the wolves knew something about Bereft's role that we don't?

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:32 pm
Gira wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:21 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:02 pm So if Bereft an ITP?

leetic wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:04 pm Or do we have a janitor?
dunno how you would ever come to the first conclusion

anyway don't really have time for the night, while bereft was generally townread him getting NKed suggests the game was pretty upside down
What is an ITP?

How?

Independent/Third Party

It would be awesome if Bereft was a wolf who somehow died, but for some reason I don't think that's very likely

Gira wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:21 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:02 pm So if Bereft an ITP?

leetic wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:04 pm Or do we have a janitor?
dunno how you would ever come to the first conclusion

What do you suggest he is then?

Although given that we are getting to the point that we would lose if we mislynch and hadn't killed TSP, I would be surprised if the thread merge or some other change to the status quo wasn't happening soon.

So it's likely 5-2 now, as LyLo wasn't announced, but the presence of a potential ITP may mean things are more complicated. At least I can now square Bereft's good looking TSP vote with the fact that he didn't really feel towny at all

Anyway, whatever they are Bereft has a partner as otherwise he'd be removed from the game, so maybe he'll come clean in the other thread.

Or do we have a janitor?

So if Bereft an ITP?

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