The Syndicate

Well, I died way too early in that one, but good game! The way I handled that EoD was pretty terrible and I guess I'll have to learn for next time.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:52 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:52 pm LC is either town or pulling off the most counterintuitive gambit I've seen.

What's wrong with my progression?

I already explained why your progression regarding me is bad. It also seems like you're subjecting certain people to far more scrutiny than others, it almost feels like you're giving Dragomir and ted a pass. You're acting as a leader but the place you're leading to is so convuluted that I cannot believe it is natural.

LC is either town or pulling off the most counterintuitive gambit I've seen.

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:39 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:34 pm Way too much omgus in this game.

I'm more in OMGIS mode right now. [VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

I don't know what to think of this. I was going down anyway, if he's scum, he has no reason to intervene

Honestly I think Mikey may be on to something with the Sloonei suspicion. I do feel like people are giving him way too much of a pass for being super active. While many of the posts look towny in isolation, his overall progression has most certainly not. He justified it as not really believing in most of the stuff he has posted, but I find it super convenient nonetheless. Consider how rapidly his tune has switched from calling me his biggest townread to becoming his biggest suspect. Such a drastic switch is not natural, especially considering that many of the posts he is using to case me (the reads list for example) existed during the time he said he townread me. My wagon was dying off, but Sloonei going on it breathed new life into it and quickly made me the favored lynch over LC and TH. Overall, I retract my townread of this slot.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:07 pm I refuse to vote for anybody that I'm not confident in. Y'all just gotta deal with that right now.

You're sitting on fences.

Hope JJJ will show up to save the day, but if he's scum we're screwed. Oh well

I hope for your sake that you're all prepared to feel like a right bunch of nitwits.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:38 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:34 pm

Spoiler: show

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:31 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:29 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:28 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:26 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:24 pm

I started the TH wagon. There was either 1 or 0 votes when I got there.

Oh, guess I missed that, sorry.

Still don't like your 'analysis' of it, though.

Do you disagree with it?

Yes. I slot TH into a lightish green level. The posts of his you quoted could very much be read either way, and just saying 'this is bad' is not showing me why you think they came from a scum mindset more than a town one.

They are fluff posts disguised as content. There is little to no content to make up for them. That is the basis of my suspicion.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:49 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:39 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:15 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:13 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:11 pm

Really?

Yep.

Filler post. And you said REY was trying too hard? Bugger off with that.

The fuck is a filler post? Do you not want me to generate content? I don't believe you really suspect me for that post. You just thought it would be an easy thing to appear suspicious of.

Yes, I want you to generate content. That post said nothing, had no content.

I am accusing you of pretending to generate content. Was that unclear?

???

Did you just... have a year old post in your pocket?

What's your point?

Those two posts are incredibly similar. And at least one of them you posted as scum.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:31 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:29 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:28 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:26 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:24 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:19 am *What's up with Speedchuk piling on the TH wagon by selecting a few TH posts and saying 'This is bad' to each? It looked like work, but it wasn't much work, and it essentially just served to nudge the wagon along, like he wanted it to gain more momentum.

I started the TH wagon. There was either 1 or 0 votes when I got there.

Oh, guess I missed that, sorry.

Still don't like your 'analysis' of it, though.

Do you disagree with it?

Yes. I slot TH into a lightish green level. The posts of his you quoted could very much be read either way, and just saying 'this is bad' is not showing me why you think they came from a scum mindset more than a town one.

They are fluff posts disguised as content. There is little to no content to make up for them. That is the basis of my suspicion.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:49 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:39 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:15 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:13 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:11 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:10 pm Sloonei could be bad. Need more data. Cbob need more data too

Really?

Yep.

Filler post. And you said REY was trying too hard? Bugger off with that.

The fuck is a filler post? Do you not want me to generate content? I don't believe you really suspect me for that post. You just thought it would be an easy thing to appear suspicious of.

Yes, I want you to generate content. That post said nothing, had no content.

I am accusing you of pretending to generate content. Was that unclear?

???

Well, I'm not gonna have much time left to post in this phase because I have a calc test and meetings with two of my professors. I could join the LC or TH wagons to have a better shot at survival, but I'm not gonna vote for a wagon I don't believe in just to live to the next phase. Just keep in mind that my wagon is not pure and there have almost certainly been scum who have voted on it. Look very carefully at my detractors before making a decision to vote for me.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:13 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:09 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:07 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:03 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:57 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:55 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:47 pm

Why? There’s a huge list of things speedchuck hasn’t commented on.

I think it's likely that not all of the scum have gone after me yet, so I'm looking for people who seem to be looking the other way when the suspicion on me is building. speed fits the description perfectly reads as someone who is fine with the status quo but doesn't want to get blood on his hands.

What prompted this specific theory?

So many people have voiced suspicions on me that not all of them can be town. But scum teams won't have each member be focused on suspecting the same person, usually there will be at least one person off the wagon so they can say "See, I told ya this was a bad idea!" So someone who is off my wagon but still seems comfortable with the state of the thread seems suspicious to me.

What makes him seem comfortable with the thread or “looking the other way”?

The fact that he's posting but not looking at any of the wagons or suggesting an alternate choice.

This is where you lose me. I think the problem with speedchuck here is that he’s just not posting as much as everyone else. If he was an active force in the thread I could pick things apart and argue that he’s avoiding certain topics. But he hasn’t had much to say, so he doesn’t really stand out as “looking the other way.”

That's the problem

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:07 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:03 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:57 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:55 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:47 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:44 pm I'd love to point out that speedchuck has never commented on me or my wagon, despite how big a topic it was. Almost as if he knows I'm town and is like "I want no part in this".

Why? There’s a huge list of things speedchuck hasn’t commented on.

I think it's likely that not all of the scum have gone after me yet, so I'm looking for people who seem to be looking the other way when the suspicion on me is building. speed fits the description perfectly reads as someone who is fine with the status quo but doesn't want to get blood on his hands.

What prompted this specific theory?

So many people have voiced suspicions on me that not all of them can be town. But scum teams won't have each member be focused on suspecting the same person, usually there will be at least one person off the wagon so they can say "See, I told ya this was a bad idea!" So someone who is off my wagon but still seems comfortable with the state of the thread seems suspicious to me.

What makes him seem comfortable with the thread or “looking the other way”?

The fact that he's posting but not looking at any of the wagons or suggesting an alternate choice.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:57 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:55 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:47 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:44 pm I'd love to point out that speedchuck has never commented on me or my wagon, despite how big a topic it was. Almost as if he knows I'm town and is like "I want no part in this".

Why? There’s a huge list of things speedchuck hasn’t commented on.

I think it's likely that not all of the scum have gone after me yet, so I'm looking for people who seem to be looking the other way when the suspicion on me is building. speed fits the description perfectly reads as someone who is fine with the status quo but doesn't want to get blood on his hands.

What prompted this specific theory?

So many people have voiced suspicions on me that not all of them can be town. But scum teams won't have each member be focused on suspecting the same person, usually there will be at least one person off the wagon so they can say "See, I told ya this was a bad idea!" So someone who is off my wagon but still seems comfortable with the state of the thread seems suspicious to me.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:54 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:50 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:33 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:21 pm

tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:11 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:09 pm

tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:08 pm

I think wolves have little to no thread control and villagers are having a horrible day one.

This is such a weird thing to say at this point.

I don’t care.

If you don't care, why did you respond

I don't like this tone, it reads as uncooperative and not really engaging in the thread

This post inspired me to vote for leetic. He looks like he has decided that tedxtr is the person he wants to lynch today and is not interested in any other opinions. It doesn't look like tunneling: it looks fabricated.

This post is bad. I mean, look at my wagon for context - two of these people have been on this since the beginning of the game. tedxtr has been completely committed to me for a while now and you see nothing wrong with that and yet me going after tedxtr looks bad. Yeah, sure.

You and ted have both gone after each other aggressively and for a long stretch of time. I think ted’s behavior looks more authentic than yours. I think this line of defense is unhelpful as well. It does not do anything to generalize and hand-wave and play the “what about?” game.

In no more than a few sentences, tell me what is wrong with the way ted has gone after you.

He took my quotes and made huge assumptions in order to paint me in the worst possible light and afterward has relied on other people's suspicions of me rather than coming up with his own. He also seems more focused on using irrelevant details to try to discredit me ("you're probably scum", "a page 2 wagon", etc.) rather than actually engage with my arguments.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:47 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:44 pm I'd love to point out that speedchuck has never commented on me or my wagon, despite how big a topic it was. Almost as if he knows I'm town and is like "I want no part in this".

Why? There’s a huge list of things speedchuck hasn’t commented on.

I think it's likely that not all of the scum have gone after me yet, so I'm looking for people who seem to be looking the other way when the suspicion on me is building. speed fits the description perfectly reads as someone who is fine with the status quo but doesn't want to get blood on his hands.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:33 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:21 pm

tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:11 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:09 pm

tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:08 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:04 pm I think we are a bit of a mess right now and the mafia team would be content to maintain the status quo. Turnip Head is a player who stands out as not rocking the boat. I don't know if that's fair to say. I am making this assessment with only one foot in the game.

I think wolves have little to no thread control and villagers are having a horrible day one.

This is such a weird thing to say at this point.

I don’t care.

If you don't care, why did you respond

I don't like this tone, it reads as uncooperative and not really engaging in the thread

This post inspired me to vote for leetic. He looks like he has decided that tedxtr is the person he wants to lynch today and is not interested in any other opinions. It doesn't look like tunneling: it looks fabricated.

This post is bad. I mean, look at my wagon for context - two of these people have been on this since the beginning of the game. tedxtr has been completely committed to me for a while now and you see nothing wrong with that and yet me going after tedxtr looks bad. Yeah, sure.

I'd love to point out that speedchuck has never commented on me or my wagon, despite how big a topic it was. Almost as if he knows I'm town and is like "I want no part in this".

I wanted to give Drago a chance, but his recent posts have not been very impressive. For example:

Dragomir wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:37 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:13 am

ts account wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:57 am

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:06 am
Y'know, this post is a bit weird. Mikey is calling out Sloonei for setup speculation, yet when you look at the first paragraph, that's exactly what he's doing here

Care to explain?

I would like to know from you. Are you worried about me pocketing you?

Mikey's behavior is weird, last game when he was town he wasn't going after the people doing setup speculation despite the fact that there was a lot going on. And what's with this business about pocketing, like of course I'm not going to discount the possibility of someone being scum just because they townread me. Now I'm voting Mikey for this reason.

Do you always just give a scum read, explain why, vote and then proceed to not actively get that person lynched? I know it was early in the DP but it's a pattern that I've seen you do. It sounds like you are more dependent on ppl agreeing with your assessment and joining the wagon. You don't seem like you actually want to get that player lynched.

This is just disingenuous. I find it difficult to believe that this guy has never heard of the concept of pressuring, and it's weird that he hasn't called out Sloonei for doing basically the same thing. What, does he want me to try to drop everything a few hours into the thread and get someone lynched based on a minor suspicion?

tedxtr wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:16 am Let’s maj leetic

Since I cased you, could you at least have the decency to case me? Your current case stinks

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:41 am

leetic wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:40 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:35 am

leetic wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:30 am No, I have a tendency to post read lists of people early on (here, here, and here for example). I wanted to do the same here.

First, do you play everywhere?
Second, all the lists you linked to are comprehensive. Your list of reads in this thread was 6 specific players out of 13. Why did you choose to do that?

I had physics class in a few minutes so I didn't have time to go through everyone

Why those six?

...I've already answered this

They were the most active

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:35 am

leetic wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:30 am No, I have a tendency to post read lists of people early on (here, here, and here for example). I wanted to do the same here.

First, do you play everywhere?
Second, all the lists you linked to are comprehensive. Your list of reads in this thread was 6 specific players out of 13. Why did you choose to do that?

I had physics class in a few minutes so I didn't have time to go through everyone

Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:26 am

leetic wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:23 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:38 pm I want to return to this post as well:

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:51 am Reads on a few more active players:

Dragomir: I think a lot of his posts have been more CWAC. I mean, there's very little that he has posted that Sloonei hadn't already posted, and he's only interacting with the same people that Sloonei had been. GTH scum, because I do not see him making his own content.

Funnygurl: Likely town, seems similar to her town play in the hydra game.

Master Radishes: I do like their posts so far, does seem like they are trying to solve the game and approaching multiple players, so town read.

Sloonei: I'd say town, as he is now trying to get discussion going.

tedxtr: I honestly am not a fan of this slot, I explained why their vote for me was kinda lame and I don't really like his "Was to shoot shit around, I wanted to bait a reaction or something", it seems like backtracking given that his initial vote for me was laden with the same amount of reasoning. Scum read for sure.

ts account: His play in this game is much different than what I'm used to, he's much more tunnelly than he usually is and is much less casual during D1. I haven't seen his scum play yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is it.

No one asked for this and it did not seem like it had any direction to it. leetic just plopped down six reads on six sporadically-selected names. I could see this being the product of a big bad wolf who wants to look proactive. The reads are all pretty superficial, and we can see the seeds of his ted vote which he is still clinging to at this very moment, and which I've just highlighted as the basis for my current vote. The dragomir suspicion also seems arbitrary, and the ts read is the kind of loosely-held suspicion that I could see as a mafioso putting a pin in a case in the event that it gains momentum later on.

They were the six most active people at that point. I couldn't go too deep into them as I had a physics class at 11 and I just wanted to contribute something before then

Wait, so are you admitting to forced contribution in order to get brownie points?

No, I have a tendency to post read lists of people early on (here, here, and here for example). I wanted to do the same here.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:25 am

leetic wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:24 am

Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:22 am

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:34 am Assassin's creed has people in the modern day going into a matrix-like thing and reliving the lives of assassins of the past to gain skillz.

Maybe nutella and JJJ are like a templar and an assassin from the future and they're in our heads right now, living our lives, making our posts.

It bothers me how Leetic never talked to Speed about his mechanical talk when he wanted Sloo's head when the latter did it.

Where did you get the idea that I wanted Sloon's head?

You voted him.

Haven't you ever heard of a pressure vote?

Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:22 am

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:34 am Assassin's creed has people in the modern day going into a matrix-like thing and reliving the lives of assassins of the past to gain skillz.

Maybe nutella and JJJ are like a templar and an assassin from the future and they're in our heads right now, living our lives, making our posts.

It bothers me how Leetic never talked to Speed about his mechanical talk when he wanted Sloo's head when the latter did it.

Where did you get the idea that I wanted Sloon's head?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:38 pm I want to return to this post as well:

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:51 am Reads on a few more active players:

Dragomir: I think a lot of his posts have been more CWAC. I mean, there's very little that he has posted that Sloonei hadn't already posted, and he's only interacting with the same people that Sloonei had been. GTH scum, because I do not see him making his own content.

Funnygurl: Likely town, seems similar to her town play in the hydra game.

Master Radishes: I do like their posts so far, does seem like they are trying to solve the game and approaching multiple players, so town read.

Sloonei: I'd say town, as he is now trying to get discussion going.

tedxtr: I honestly am not a fan of this slot, I explained why their vote for me was kinda lame and I don't really like his "Was to shoot shit around, I wanted to bait a reaction or something", it seems like backtracking given that his initial vote for me was laden with the same amount of reasoning. Scum read for sure.

ts account: His play in this game is much different than what I'm used to, he's much more tunnelly than he usually is and is much less casual during D1. I haven't seen his scum play yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is it.

No one asked for this and it did not seem like it had any direction to it. leetic just plopped down six reads on six sporadically-selected names. I could see this being the product of a big bad wolf who wants to look proactive. The reads are all pretty superficial, and we can see the seeds of his ted vote which he is still clinging to at this very moment, and which I've just highlighted as the basis for my current vote. The dragomir suspicion also seems arbitrary, and the ts read is the kind of loosely-held suspicion that I could see as a mafioso putting a pin in a case in the event that it gains momentum later on.

They were the six most active people at that point. I couldn't go too deep into them as I had a physics class at 11 and I just wanted to contribute something before then

tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:33 pm My case died 20 pages ago, please state what you are doing on my wagon

Contention 1: Your reads have not been impressive to me. I've already explained how you have gone backtracked with several of your reads and your other reads have been shallow.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:53 pm I feel like LC is playing scummy on purpose

How so? Does that make him town? This is your only post on him by the way

tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:03 am It's going from the premise Epignosis is town.

"is this a social distancing thing" is playful banter, it's not like he wants Epi to move his vote, it almost feels manipulative to the point of "I guess if I make a joke about his vote being insane, he'll double down on it"

Plus, the sorting question followed by the banter question kind of nullifies the interrogative question you know. It's not how a wolf treats his partner, I think I have some insight into Sloonei's antispew and he'd want to at least entertain the interrogatory process for a bit, follow through with more questions, whereas this is like...Defeating the purpose from the start. It's not done to actually figure out his reasoning or anything.

I don't know that's all you get, my mind is a beautiful messy place.

So if Epi is town, this read holds, but if he isn't, it doesn't? Your surrounding posts don't really clarify this

tedxtr wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:41 am Word salad. Leetic's post about Sloonei's activity at SoD felt out of place, so did his "setup speculation" post. In Sloonei's position as town, it's perfectly reasonable to ask about the absence of 2 players when it could be an issue that may cause a re-rand. If Leetic were scum though, it wouldn't be an issue because he'd know that his scum buds aren't missing so who the fuck cares about two townies missing.

As I already explained, this post only works under the assumption that neither of the missing players are wolves

Contention 2: Your reaction to me

tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:42 am

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:41 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:20 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:20 pm Does anyone else think it's weird that we have ~40 hours left and I'm already at L-3?

No. What's weird about it?

I think it's likely that at least one of my voters is scum. Probably precisely one since it would be risky for mafia to gang up on someone this early

You have absolutely no scum reads on anyone on your wagon, what even triggered this comment.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:46 am

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:51 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:42 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:41 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:20 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:20 pm Does anyone else think it's weird that we have ~40 hours left and I'm already at L-3?

No. What's weird about it?

I think it's likely that at least one of my voters is scum. Probably precisely one since it would be risky for mafia to gang up on someone this early

Why? Which one?

It's still pretty early in the game when many users are throwing around suspicions. But a wagon of four people, rather close to the number needed to hammer, is not a thrown suspicion. It's a clear choice. Especially jarring when no other wagon has reached three yet.

One of the users on my wagon is ted, who I have found suspicious for other reasons. But I think the person whose vote on me looks the worst is Mac. First of all is how subtly he voted - he didn't even post that he voted for me until much later, despite being the third vote on me - the point where it becomes a viable wagon. Secondly, when he finally posted a reason for the vote, he just phrased it as following ted and not mentioning anything about me. Overall, a very sneaky vote that was barely noticed, and the results of which are clear.

So you think there are 2 scum and not one.

And you just described a town vote 9/10 times, I don't believe that you actually think Mac is wolf based on how bad his vote looks on you. That's mostly town.

You lumped me with mac because the higher the number of suspicions, the better it looks for you. What do you have on me, I barely remember you saying anything about me?

These posts were just very presumptive about me. Like the previously mentioned post on me, this post seems designed to paint me in the worst light. I start to get suspicious

tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:32 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:27 pm

tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:23 pm I actually don’t, why is that hard to believe?

I mean, it happened only yesterday, plus you actually responded to me. Seems convenient that you would forget it when it helps your agenda to do so.

Yes, because letting myself get picked on by you on purpose helps my agenda by a huge ton.

When if I were scum, I could just go back over and read it.

I’m literally laying out baits and you’re taking each one of them.

Make me look townier please :P

This is not how someone who is town responds. Even if he was correct about the fact that he was "laying out baits", consider that he had a vote on me this whole time and was posting weird suspicion about me. If it was "bait", then his entire suspicion of me would be based on false premises, yet he never backed down. His read on me just looks very fake.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 1:00 pm All you’ve done was to move your vote for level 1 surface reads.

I would like to point out the irony of this statement as none of his reads at that point were any deeper.

And it doesn't get better from here:

tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:06 pm @Long Con come vote leetic

tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:09 pm Master radishes you literally can’t read me, please switch to leetic.

I've called out Drago for the same thing and it honestly looks worse here. You seemed more concerned with lynching me than reading me. I mean, by this point your case on me is what, my page one vote, me being suspicious that my wagon is growing rapidly, and me suspecting you. Maybe there's something in there that doesn't look good, but it surely isn't enough to just drop everything and get me gone no questions asked.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:21 pm Let me live to Day2, that’s when I shine, more towards late game. I’ll give a huge post with everyone listed. Ted talk thing.

I need the night for myself, I can’t both defend myself against cases and solve, you can’t possibly expect me to do that

Feels like more an appeal to emotion than anything else.

Contention 3: Poisoning the well

When he went back after the breakdown, he had a constant insistence that his wagon was a "page two thing" ignoring posts by me and others. As I said, he is completely uncooperative.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:25 pm Like this is fucking ludicrous, everyone but me is getting pushed, Long Con is pushed, TSP is pushed, Speedchuck is pushed, and I’m still being top wagon, TH is pushed

Fucking read the game state correctly, MY WAGON IS A PAGE 2 THING AND IT HAS NO NEW EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT IT

Your posts on LC have been shallow and you haven't really discussed TSP, TH, or speed. It looks like you are depending on other people to make scumreads.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:26 pm And yet for 50 something hours I’ve managed to be the counterwagon to people like Leetic and Long Con and their wagons crumble and mine stays up although I’m the towniest motherfucker in this entire playerlist

And they’ve barely done anything

I think it is difficult to argue that I've barely done anything, and again, this reads like scum desperate to throw the wagon on anybody else rather than town trying to lynch who's scummy.

In short, ted has posted very shallow reads despite criticizing me for posting shallow reads, has a case on me that just seems to assume the worst about me, has tunneled on that case to the exclusion of other users, and has been trying to throw the spotlight on anyone but himself of late. I'm happy where my vote is for now.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:24 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:14 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:07 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:22 pm Usually much more has happened by now. This feels weird.

Right now, [VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine. He is usually one of the more active people who tries to get stuff going, but right now his only contributions have been setup speculation. I'm not really seeing him trying to get any meaningful discussion going so I have to be suspicious.

I have a question for you. Why didn't you consider talking about mechanics to be a "getting things going" action? It was the most pressing matter at the moment because their were 2 players that signed up and weren't added to the player list. It is of something to talk about you wouldn't say?

What in your mind constitutes as getting things going? There were less than 5 ppl online at that time, everybody was trying to get their first posts in. What did you expect of Sloonei to be capable of doing at that time? I believe that you were unreasonably coming after him for not contributing when his options were very limited.

Look at a game like this one. While there was some joking in the beginning, players were still putting reads on each other right off the bat. Five hours of absolutely nothing happening was unusual for here as far as I was concerned.

Mechanical talk isn't really a "getting things going" action because it tells you nothing about the alignment of the person doing it or other people.

I disagree with that statement.
1. In the next five pages, we had 2 players go after each other purely based on one of them doing mechanical talk. Sloonei doing mechanical talk was the driving force behind his and TS's interaction. Due to this, multiple ppl could get some reads on those two. So, you could say that mechanical can get things going in a game.

2. Mechanical talk can provide excellent reads and thoughts about the game in general. It allows you to find out who just talks about the mechanics as a way to contribute all phase long instead of anything else. You can end up clearing something confusing which could affect the read that you may have on a player. If a player can use mechanical talk to further their reads and ideas then they are contributing and mechanical talk has got things going.

Tell me what else that Sloonei could have done to get things going?

I mean, it was more Mikey scumreading Sloonei that got discussion going, but I digress. We really shouldn't be arguing about this considering it died ten pages ago.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:25 pm Like this is fucking ludicrous, everyone but me is getting pushed, Long Con is pushed, TSP is pushed, Speedchuck is pushed, and I’m still being top wagon, TH is pushed

Fucking read the game state correctly, MY WAGON IS A PAGE 2 THING AND IT HAS NO NEW EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT IT

Have you read any of my posts?

tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:11 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:09 pm

tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:08 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:04 pm I think we are a bit of a mess right now and the mafia team would be content to maintain the status quo. Turnip Head is a player who stands out as not rocking the boat. I don't know if that's fair to say. I am making this assessment with only one foot in the game.

I think wolves have little to no thread control and villagers are having a horrible day one.

This is such a weird thing to say at this point.

I don’t care.

If you don't care, why did you respond

I don't like this tone, it reads as uncooperative and not really engaging in the thread

Dragomir wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:07 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:22 pm Usually much more has happened by now. This feels weird.

Right now, [VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine. He is usually one of the more active people who tries to get stuff going, but right now his only contributions have been setup speculation. I'm not really seeing him trying to get any meaningful discussion going so I have to be suspicious.

I have a question for you. Why didn't you consider talking about mechanics to be a "getting things going" action? It was the most pressing matter at the moment because their were 2 players that signed up and weren't added to the player list. It is of something to talk about you wouldn't say?

What in your mind constitutes as getting things going? There were less than 5 ppl online at that time, everybody was trying to get their first posts in. What did you expect of Sloonei to be capable of doing at that time? I believe that you were unreasonably coming after him for not contributing when his options were very limited.

Look at a game like this one. While there was some joking in the beginning, players were still putting reads on each other right off the bat. Five hours of absolutely nothing happening was unusual for here as far as I was concerned.

Mechanical talk isn't really a "getting things going" action because it tells you nothing about the alignment of the person doing it or other people.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:39 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:37 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:33 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:31 pm I voted for funnygurl again

Why not TSP?

Why do people keep asking other people why they're not voting for other other people?

I can't answer for other people.

In my mind, funnygirl and TSP are linked. The difference is that funnygirl talks more. TSP doesn't. All things being equal, I'd rather lynch TSP.

If two players are equally suspicious, I'd rather go after the active one, since active scum are more dangerous

Dragomir wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:05 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:05 pm So I guess a better way to present that read is this: who is participating, but not moving the needle or enabling chaos to thrive?

Speedchuck.

This applies just as well to you ya know

Dragomir wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:59 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:57 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:53 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:38 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:26 pm

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:24 pm Something is wrong with Long Con. He doesn't usually play with this tight of a grip. Like a rattlesnake getting all coiled up. He often gets suspected early and I'm one of the first to rush to his defense because I recognize his town game but this is off-meta for him and I think he knows it

Would you consider voting for him?

I don't like Drago's tone here, reads like he's more focused on building wagons than anything else.

This point rings even more true now that Drago has rapidly jumped between the Turnip and LC wagons depending on which seemed the more likely lynch based on thread climate.

You still have yet to explain to me as to why a townie shouldn't try to build a wagon on the player that they scum read.

A townie should build a wagon by procuring evidence on a scummy user, not by constantly pestering people until they vote your way. What is with the switch between Turnip and LC, do you believe they may be paired?

Have I not done that? I made posts explaining why I think both of them are scum. The reasoning part is done, now I focus in the lynching part.

No. I just they're both scum.

As far as I can see you have made one post detailing your suspicion of LC, and one post detailing your suspicion of Turnip. Every other post has been about them in relation to other users. Your progression on them has felt very CWAC, in that by a cursory glance it looks like you have a lot of posts detailing your suspicions on them, but when you actually look at it very little is actually written about them and you're mostly relying on other people posting about them and telling/suggesting to people that they're scum rather than put in any real work in detailing reads or even suspicions about these people. Of all the reasons to scumread you, this is the strongest.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:57 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:53 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:38 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:26 pm

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:24 pm Something is wrong with Long Con. He doesn't usually play with this tight of a grip. Like a rattlesnake getting all coiled up. He often gets suspected early and I'm one of the first to rush to his defense because I recognize his town game but this is off-meta for him and I think he knows it

Would you consider voting for him?

I don't like Drago's tone here, reads like he's more focused on building wagons than anything else.

This point rings even more true now that Drago has rapidly jumped between the Turnip and LC wagons depending on which seemed the more likely lynch based on thread climate.

You still have yet to explain to me as to why a townie shouldn't try to build a wagon on the player that they scum read.

A townie should build a wagon by procuring evidence on a scummy user, not by constantly pestering people until they vote your way. What is with the switch between Turnip and LC, do you believe they may be paired?

ts account wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:52 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:49 pm Anyway, I'll at least list my reads from towniest to scummiest (that were up to date a couple pages ago):

1. MacDougall
2. ts account
3. Sloonei
4. Master Radishes
5. Epignosis
6. Funnygurl555
7. Long Con
8. TonyStarkPrime
9. Turnip Head
10. Dragomir
11. speedchuck
12. tedxtr

Interesting, with a capital Q. I thought you had a vague scum read on me last we checked in.

Well, that was near the beginning of the game when you were still posting weird stuff about mechanics speculation and pocketing. You seem like more your usual self as of late, we are mindmelding regarding Drago and your tone seems genuine.

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:38 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:26 pm

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:24 pm Something is wrong with Long Con. He doesn't usually play with this tight of a grip. Like a rattlesnake getting all coiled up. He often gets suspected early and I'm one of the first to rush to his defense because I recognize his town game but this is off-meta for him and I think he knows it

Would you consider voting for him?

I don't like Drago's tone here, reads like he's more focused on building wagons than anything else.

This point rings even more true now that Drago has rapidly jumped between the Turnip and LC wagons depending on which seemed the more likely lynch based on thread climate.

Anyway, I'll at least list my reads from towniest to scummiest (that were up to date a couple pages ago):

1. MacDougall
2. ts account
3. Sloonei
4. Master Radishes
5. Epignosis
6. Funnygurl555
7. Long Con
8. TonyStarkPrime
9. Turnip Head
10. Dragomir
11. speedchuck
12. tedxtr

The Turnip Head wagon seemingly took of out of nowhere and considering that both Drago and speedchuck were on it, I'm not touching it with a ten foot pole

I am about halfway through my post, but so much has changed in the last two pages that it's now all outdated lol

Dragomir wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:26 pm

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:24 pm Something is wrong with Long Con. He doesn't usually play with this tight of a grip. Like a rattlesnake getting all coiled up. He often gets suspected early and I'm one of the first to rush to his defense because I recognize his town game but this is off-meta for him and I think he knows it

Would you consider voting for him?

I don't like Drago's tone here, reads like he's more focused on building wagons than anything else. And yes I am working on that post

tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:59 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:56 pm

tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:21 pm Let me live to Day2, that’s when I shine, more towards late game. I’ll give a huge post with everyone listed. Ted talk thing.

I need the night for myself, I can’t both defend myself against cases and solve, you can’t possibly expect me to do that

Your defense has not been impressive thus far, seems like you are more pleading than trying to understand where your suspicion has been coming from.

The only accusation I got was from you and you're a wolf, of course I'm not going to argue against you.

Poisoning the well much?

Anyway, I have a geology test right now, but once that is done I will make a post detailing my up to date reads on everyone, from towniest to scummiest, and my progression with them.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:21 pm Let me live to Day2, that’s when I shine, more towards late game. I’ll give a huge post with everyone listed. Ted talk thing.

I need the night for myself, I can’t both defend myself against cases and solve, you can’t possibly expect me to do that

Your defense has not been impressive thus far, seems like you are more pleading than trying to understand where your suspicion has been coming from.

ts account wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:37 pm Dragomir- scum
Epignosis- null
Funnygurl555- null
leetic- town
Long Con- null
MacDougall- town
Master Radishes- town lean
Sloonei- scum lean
speedchuck- null
tedxtr- town lean
ts account- town
TonyStarkPrime- null
Turnip Head- town lean

Who do you think would be the most likely third scum in a team with Dragomir and Sloonei?

tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:40 pm 1) Mac read is not back tracking, it was an actual reaction test

2) What bigger commitment out of “ts is town” can you even get?

Feels like you’re in my ISO looking for things that look bad without actually looking for context.

1. If it was a reaction test, why did you never comment on Mac's reaction? Was your vote on me, which also had no reasoning attached, a "reaction test" as well?
2. Maybe not saying he's town after saying something suspicious of him, or explain why you had a change in the read. Saying his play is unusual for him, then immediately flipping and just posting he's town with no real explanation is noncommittal.

Still not feeling you.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:32 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:27 pm

tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:23 pm I actually don’t, why is that hard to believe?

I mean, it happened only yesterday, plus you actually responded to me. Seems convenient that you would forget it when it helps your agenda to do so.

Yes, because letting myself get picked on by you on purpose helps my agenda by a huge ton.

When if I were scum, I could just go back over and read it.

I’m literally laying out baits and you’re taking each one of them.

Make me look townier please :P

This feels like backtracking. Not the first time you've done so either

tedxtr wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:06 am Was to shoot shit around, I wanted to bait a reaction or something

And then, there was your flip on Mikey:

tedxtr wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:59 am If ts account is [NSM] Mikey I don't remember him being this jumpy actually.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:08 am

Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:06 am

tedxtr wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:51 am I kind of want the Sloonei and ts shit to stop, there's already information to infer stuff from and quite frankly I think they're both town.

Why do you want it to stop? I don't see the point in stopping a meaningful discussion between the two.

Because I town read them both?

It doesn't feel like you're committed to anything that you're saying, making your reads look fake to me.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:23 pm I actually don’t, why is that hard to believe?

I mean, it happened only yesterday, plus you actually responded to me. Seems convenient that you would forget it when it helps your agenda to do so.