Phenon Mafia: ENDGAME - Snuffed

[Quin]

I'll just plop myself on the fence until he gets back to you.

[Long Con]

I do, however, think the possible Dyslexicon-slip to be much more juicy. The INH vote is just a pressure-vote... if Slex can't explain this 5-knowledge, then the vote cast would be quite a bit more serious.

[Nachomamma8]

Changeable votes?
I like this game already!

Vote: Golden

[Quin]

Changeable votes?
I like this game already!

Vote: Golden

hey

[Golden]

Changeable votes?
I like this game already!

Vote: Golden

No u

Vote: Nachomamma8[/quote]

[Nachomamma8]

It's my first game, I deserve a map. It was rather difficult to sign up and meet new people.

I like Fredwood throwing his name already; probably not a significant tell unless he's super inexperienced but the way it happened seemed relaxed enough.

[Nachomamma8]

Changeable votes?
I like this game already!

Vote: Golden

hey

Hi!

[Nachomamma8]

I'm open to other map requests, but I want to know how y'all intend to forge a civilian victory in this game if you are entrusted with it.

How is responding to the question "how will you forge a civilian victory in this game?" ever indicative of alignment? It seems to me that the most important factor of these items are getting them into town hands, no?

I'm open to other map requests, but I want to know how y'all intend to forge a civilian victory in this game if you are entrusted with it.

I'll lead lynches on the unanimous civ-reads and make a fool of myself.

Town read.

If that's what it takes for you to give me the map.

That being said, I seem to be townreading Quin for an exchange sparked by the "Civilian Victory" comment so egg on my face.

Oh boy a fresh hot new game!

The map thing kinda reminds me of selecting prefects, in that it kinda feels almost like some kind of popularity/trust contest between the enthusiastic players who nominate themselves, and it feels dangerous to put that trust in someone who asks for it but... idk, anyone who played that game should remember that whole can of worms. But it would be best to eventually form some kind of consensus, we just have to hope we don't pick the wrong nominee.

As for the poll I don't know what the context or consequences may be but I think scientist is the coolest out of those

The more I think about it, the more I think people should just go with their gut and not declare it. It does potentially put a target on a person's back.

Also, I don't remember what game the prefect thing was now, and what actually happened with that?

I'm assuming in this game there will be more items (based on the way the PM was written) and so there will be opportunities to spread them out a bit, hopefully.

I can't foresee a situation where "this player has an item" is a reason for me to nightkill them as scum over "this person is a threat to my team" and if the scumteam has a different approach then I don't think there is a very good chance of us losing this game.

I like nutella and Strawhenge already.

I can see a case for Strawhenge (and probably agree now that I think about it), but why nutella?

It's my first game, I deserve a map. It was rather difficult to sign up and meet new people.

Fredwood's four posts are only marginally relevant, but I still react positively. This in particular, where he calls for the map, pleases me considering the personality he conveyed in the sign-up thread:

Thanks. Jack and Silver are the only two names I recognize been competing with them from anywhere from 5 to 10 years. I'm not a proper representation of the talent pool, I'm not very good (false humility), going to have to find a way to figure out how games are played here.

If there's any truth to the highlighted portion, I'd anticipate a civilian Fredwood would be a lot more comfortable doing that right off the bat than a mafioso Fredwood in this foreign environment. This read can be qualified with a little insight from those people who have played with Fredwood before -- please tell me what you think of this perspective.

Second post reinforces my townread there.

[Nachomamma8]

Hi everyone. Apologies for dumb questions ahead of time, I will be asking them all game and for games to come too.

DO NOT GIVE ME THE MAP, I REPEAT, DO NOT GIVE ME THE MAP.

Alright, now that I got the reverse psychology argument out of the way, should we try to coordinate the poll votes, or would that be against the spirit of the game? And would there be a benefit in doing so? I am guessing not much aside from pissing off the mod.

You guys call the mod the host here from what I gather, right?

What is BTSC?

What is Civ or Civilian? Is that like a regular townie?

I skimread Soneji voting this slot and now find myself wondering why.

Vote: Soneji

being able to change my vote continues to feel wonderful.

[Golden]

I can't foresee a situation where "this player has an item" is a reason for me to nightkill them as scum over "this person is a threat to my team" and if the scumteam has a different approach then I don't think there is a very good chance of us losing this game.

I think there are lots of reasons baddies kill people. Threat is one, but not the only. And who is to say how big a threat baddies perceive items to be.

[Silver Lantern]

You guys normally cannot change votes?

How uncivilized... heh.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You guys normally cannot change votes?

How uncivilized... heh.

In recent memory most of the time votes have been changeable.

[Nachomamma8]

So if day 1 starts tonight I believe that means we have to have map votes in by 10pm EST today (a little over 6 hours from now).

I liked the way LC nominated himself, and I want to trust him I think. Though the way he worded it also felt like a preemptive safeguard against future suspicion on him. But I think that's fine.
I also feel super good about JJJ now. Super civ leader mode, strong green aura And I always want to trust Golden but I'm a little more wary of him fooling me.

I think my map vote will be one of those... unless I decide to be more secretive about it, which may be a good decision seeing as the map disappears if the owner is killed (I'm assuming based on the description of items in the rules, and because the votes are private, that the recipient will not be publicly announced)

I agree that the way LC nominated himself (in particular saying that giving it to more obvious townies would be painting targets on their back) seemed town, but not townie enough compared to Strawhenge/Fred/Silver Lantern/JJJ reads, which are currently the townreads I'm willing to put a tiny ounce of confidence in.

I mistook poll votes for map votes. I apologise.

Great, now I just look like I got overly defensive for nothing. I bet that won't ping anyone.

Love this person.

I would prefer not to disclose all of the details of the map, because the mafia team might be able to find ways to turn it to their advantage. I will say though that Golden's guesses are at least reasonably close all things considered. Once I have had a few opportunities to utilize it myself and get acquainted with the effects it creates, I might be more inclined to talk about it. We'll see.

JJJ faking having the map is a decent towntell for me on top of fairly good engagement/content so far.

I don't understand the progression from ONE to TWO to THREE. I poked Sorsha about her girls-only map promotion to determine whether/how much she cared about the recipient of the map being a trustworthy civilian (instead of merely a female). She told me that she did care. So I then extracted, via the transitive property, the implied reads that she had not overtly stated:

1. Sorsha wants a female to get the map.
2. Sorsha wants a civilian to get the map.
Thus
Conclusion: Sorsha believes the females are civilians.

Beyond those specifics, squeezing reads out of people is what I do and I know you've seen that before many times. You look fake right now. I rescind my town read.

You're missing the possibility that Sorsha doesn't believe her "females should get maps!" joke will gain much traction, which seems like the likeliest possibility to me.

[Nachomamma8]

I didn't really expect Sorsha to consider the girls to be town. At this point, any argument for why one should be voted to have the map was inherently facetious.

I find Sorsha's response fair. She didn't say she read them as civilian, she said she had no reason to think they weren't. Useful pedantry. I disagree with Quin's assessment that she 'appeased' Jay.

By answering the questions the way she did, it looks like she's confirming her post to have been based on reads, which omits what I think the post was based on, the gimmick. That's the impression I get.

Disagree with that; just looked like she was being snarky.
Trying to appease Jay by taking the position that Eloh/Nutella were stronger townreads than everyone else would have been exceedingly silly.

[Silver Lantern]

You guys normally cannot change votes?

How uncivilized... heh.

In recent memory most of the time votes have been changeable.

Are there commas missing there which can alter the meaning?

Are you saying that "most of the time, votes have been changeable", or is a "time vote" a thing?

[Golden]

JJJ faking having the map is a decent towntell for me on top of fairly good engagement/content so far.

Is this fishing?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm open to other map requests, but I want to know how y'all intend to forge a civilian victory in this game if you are entrusted with it.

How is responding to the question "how will you forge a civilian victory in this game?" ever indicative of alignment? It seems to me that the most important factor of these items are getting them into town hands, no?

It's a question directly relevant to one's mindset and motivation. Its promise for alignment-indicative responses is limited as is essentially any spam-phase question, but yanno one has to ask something or another. When we're talking about this specific context, as in who is deserving of receiving an item which presumably can benefit the civilian cause, what kind of question would you ask instead?

I can see a case for Strawhenge (and probably agree now that I think about it), but why nutella?

I liked the way her brain went straight to the most recent example of a pre-game vote akin to the map in this one (her reference to "prefects" stems from a different game here) as she pondered aloud the matter of how to approach the map. It looked authentic.

[sprityo]

And one more before I go to sleep

VOTALS:

Dyslexicon (3): Quin, nutella, Scotty
Scotty (1): JJJ
Fredwood (1): DrWilgy
Strawhenge (1): MM
Silver Lantern (1): Soneji
JJJ (1): Dyslexicon
INH (1): Long Con
Long Con (1): Speedchuck
Soneji (1): Nachomamma
Nachomamma (1): Golden

With 21 Alive, it takes 11 to Lynch, and 6 to soft lynch. Day 1 will end on 14th February, 2017 at 10pm EST, or in approx. 49 hours.

[Nachomamma8]

A rather strong reaction to what was a rather tame observation. Wants evidence supporting the accusation but is already dismissing it as a fake argument, therefore backhandedly saying that Quin is scum.

[VOTE: ] aubergine[VOTE:


Don't understand how Quin is reading into Sorsha's posts so strongly. Her responses to JJJ pretty plainly state that she would like for her vote to have given the map to a civ and that she doesn't have reason to suspect at the moment that the other girls are mafia.] aubergine

[VOTE:
Can't say I think that overreacting there is a scumtell; seems to me to be a personality thing more than anything although I will grant that the fact they didn't followthrough with Quin suspicion is strange (and, since they're around @Silver Lantern: why didn't you vote Quin after you thought that he was making a fake argument?).] aubergine

[Nachomamma8]

JJJ faking having the map is a decent towntell for me on top of fairly good engagement/content so far.

Is this fishing?

A type of fishing, certainly, but not the type you're accusing me of.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Guys I think I'm feeling severe burnout. The act of compiling posts and dividing quotes and answering questions is feeling like a chore. I might need the occasional pick-me up motivation. Keep me engaged, I'm fading fast!

[Golden]

Hey, sprit, can we unvote without voting elsewhere?

[Nachomamma8]

I'm open to other map requests, but I want to know how y'all intend to forge a civilian victory in this game if you are entrusted with it.

How is responding to the question "how will you forge a civilian victory in this game?" ever indicative of alignment? It seems to me that the most important factor of these items are getting them into town hands, no?

It's a question directly relevant to one's mindset and motivation. Its promise for alignment-indicative responses is limited as is essentially any spam-phase question, but yanno one has to ask something or another. When we're talking about this specific context, as in who is deserving of receiving an item which presumably can benefit the civilian cause, what kind of question would you ask instead?

I can see a case for Strawhenge (and probably agree now that I think about it), but why nutella?

I liked the way her brain went straight to the most recent example of a pre-game vote akin to the map in this one (her reference to "prefects" stems from a different game here) as she pondered aloud the matter of how to approach the map. It looked authentic.

I wouldn't ask a spam phase question because the answer very likely wouldn't factor into my overall read. I'd just wait to develop a townread and send the map to them, as I did.

I don't think that having an authentic approach to item sending has anything to do with alignment (it's game theory based, and scum can approach those situations honestly regardless of alignment) but I think I saw a nutella post that I liked so this is quickly losing relevance.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You guys normally cannot change votes?

How uncivilized... heh.

In recent memory most of the time votes have been changeable.

Are there commas missing there which can alter the meaning?

Are you saying that "most of the time, votes have been changeable", or is a "time vote" a thing?

Were it only that this hoodie were a time hoodie.

I've highlighted the correct interpretation.

[Golden]

JJJ faking having the map is a decent towntell for me on top of fairly good engagement/content so far.

Is this fishing?

A type of fishing, certainly, but not the type you're accusing me of.

That's good. I don't think the type of fishing I was accusing you of is wise.

[sprityo]

Hey, sprit, can we unvote without voting elsewhere?

yea, just type "unvote" with bold and color like you would be doing a normal vote. Or vote for "no lynch" that is basically the same thing

[Golden]

Nacho, you were quieter in Unfortunate Events, and then turned out to be bad. This reminds me much more of your civ game on here (Monkey Island). Do you believe this is a meta tell I should read into, or just a matter of your circumstances at the time of each game?

Unvote

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Hey, guys. Little one deleted the email ap on my phone and I didn't notice. Catching up.

[Silver Lantern]

A rather strong reaction to what was a rather tame observation. Wants evidence supporting the accusation but is already dismissing it as a fake argument, therefore backhandedly saying that Quin is scum.

[VOTE: ] aubergine[VOTE:


Don't understand how Quin is reading into Sorsha's posts so strongly. Her responses to JJJ pretty plainly state that she would like for her vote to have given the map to a civ and that she doesn't have reason to suspect at the moment that the other girls are mafia.] aubergine

[VOTE:
Can't say I think that overreacting there is a scumtell; seems to me to be a personality thing more than anything although I will grant that the fact they didn't followthrough with Quin suspicion is strange (and, since they're around @Silver Lantern: why didn't you vote Quin after you thought that he was making a fake argument?).] aubergine

[VOTE:

I'm about to jump in the shower so quick answer: where I normally play voting for someone who just placed a vote on you is generally seen as overly defensive and possibly scummy. How's that for irony?

Also since I'm new I was not sure that Quin was tossing a serious accusation or testing my reaction, so I figured the passive aggressive response was in order.] aubergine

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Nacho challenging me on a frivolous town read for a reason that he doesn't feel is appropriate is a direct parallel of the hydra game when he was half of Imperium (he was town). Unless the other half did that. My brain morphed every hydra into a single person.

[Nachomamma8]

There are 159 posts in this thread, and 102 of them belong the last four players to make a post plus the host.

To be fair the next two are us new folks. 8 posts is actually pretty good for me this early. I'm not a quiet player by any means but I'm also not a 800 post per game player like yourself.

I will say generating day 1 reads is viewed as kind of pointless where I play. It's always a point of contention on whether or not day 1's should be as useless as it is and whether or not we should have more games start on Night 0. As a result I've gotten in the bad habit of just checking in once on Day 1 just to say hello.

Additionally it is interested in seeing the push on civ reads. Usually I'm trying to play the fine line between appearing town and scum. If you're too town you usually get killed early. I will see how this develops.

I don't have the time to make offtopic posts but I see this a lot in Newbie Games and want to offer an opinion that maybe changes your view here -

Day 1 is a very important day for town because it has huge potential to swing the game against scum and is very important as far as "developing initial impressions" go. If you have a weak Day 1 where people don't post because they don't think nothing is alignment indicative, you will have a weak Day 2 - investigative roles can provide information yes but they don't exist in all games and while nightkills offer a limited bit of information (a decent amount in some circles), but in general they're a bad way to find scum because it's something that is completely controlled by scum and the number for reasons why scum kill people are pretty large and so it's easy to fuck up NKA.

I'd get into more of it right now if I wasn't in a rush but in a nutshell making Day 1s useful is one of the first steps people take before they go from okay players to good ones.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Silver Lantern, a little tidbit to augment your understanding of this alien land:

When I played on HCR with y'all, one thing I immediately noticed was a significant focus upon night actions, a focus so sharp that it trumped behavioral assessment in the thread. In this case, even in this closed setup we have here, I think you can safely anticipate the exact opposite. You may even have a unique advantage compared to many Syndicate regulars in this regard -- this setup is probably more like what you're used to than what we're used to.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho, you were quieter in Unfortunate Events, and then turned out to be bad. This reminds me much more of your civ game on here (Monkey Island). Do you believe this is a meta tell I should read into, or just a matter of your circumstances at the time of each game?

Unvote

Circumstances.
Unfortunate events was unfortunately a very weak showing from me.

The people who are good at reading me tend to read me by tone/strength of my scumreads; my tone as town/mafia is quite different (although most people struggle with picking up on it) and I tend to overextend myself as scum with some of my mislynch pushes.

[Nachomamma8]

A rather strong reaction to what was a rather tame observation. Wants evidence supporting the accusation but is already dismissing it as a fake argument, therefore backhandedly saying that Quin is scum.

[VOTE: ] aubergine[VOTE:


Don't understand how Quin is reading into Sorsha's posts so strongly. Her responses to JJJ pretty plainly state that she would like for her vote to have given the map to a civ and that she doesn't have reason to suspect at the moment that the other girls are mafia.] aubergine

[VOTE:
Can't say I think that overreacting there is a scumtell; seems to me to be a personality thing more than anything although I will grant that the fact they didn't followthrough with Quin suspicion is strange (and, since they're around @Silver Lantern: why didn't you vote Quin after you thought that he was making a fake argument?).] aubergine

[VOTE:

I'm about to jump in the shower so quick answer: where I normally play voting for someone who just placed a vote on you is generally seen as overly defensive and possibly scummy. How's that for irony?

Also since I'm new I was not sure that Quin was tossing a serious accusation or testing my reaction, so I figured the passive aggressive response was in order.] aubergine

[VOTE:
Makes sense, thanks for the response.] aubergine

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'd get into more of it right now if I wasn't in a rush but in a nutshell making Day 1s useful is one of the first steps people take before they go from okay players to good ones.

I just got done yelling at an entire forum about this! Day 1 is crucial and I hate to see it treated like it's a joke.

This is hardly relevant to the current proceedings, just felt like saying it.

[nutella]

JJJ faking having the map is a decent towntell for me on top of fairly good engagement/content so far.

Is this fishing?

A type of fishing, certainly, but not the type you're accusing me of.

That's good. I don't think the type of fishing I was accusing you of is wise.

What's going on here? What are the two types of fishing you guys are referring to? the original quote seems pretty straightforward to me, so Golden what did you think he was fishing for and Nacho what do you mean by that answer? I feel really dumb right now but I feel like I'm missing something in subtext here and I don't like missing things.

I'm also confused about a couple other things I'll get to in another post

[Nachomamma8]

Additionally it is interesting* to see the push on appearing overly Civilian*

I guess that conditioning has made me not trust people who appear blatantly town (CIV). TBF I really only trust myself, and even the, just on special occasions.

Fredwood civ read continues to solidify.
Which, based on his reasoning here, means I should trust him less.
Hmmm...

North-east because I like a little of everything.

Lynch: Scotty

His support of me in the map business looked fake. Also I appreciate those who entrusted the map to me, I will do my best to live up the appropriate standard.

I'm sorry it looked fake.

It's because it was.

I voted for INH to receive the map

Cheers, although it was ultimately in vain as I am 100% mapless.

I will say that I dislike very much the fact that three different people all claimed to possess the map. I voted for MM, so his claim at least has some legitimacy in my eyes.

Going into Day 1, 3J and Golden both get the squinty-raised-eyebrow treatment from me. I'm not willing to vote for them yet (as we have 60 GODDAMN HOURS to do so), but I'm gonna be watching their posts.

No map for me

I've never been voted to get anything like that. Maybe one day.

I wouldn't have chosen to say this in a vacuum, but since I already said I didn't get the map...

I did get the map. I was just impatient and assumed the PM had gone elsewhere.

It doesn't feel massively helpful, but it does enable me to turn the compass directions on this poll (and others) into specific locations. If we go to a location that turns out to be favourable, I might be able to help us get back there. It looks like you can't get everywhere from everywhere, though. For now, it's meaningless to me.

Thanks to those who trusted me. It genuinely is the first time I've been elected to get one of these! I assumed it had gone to Jay.

This little flippity flop especially struck me the wrong way.

Bad post, don't like it at all.

There was some concern that claiming to have the map could paint a target on people's backs, so a civilian claiming map when they don't have it obscures who has it and thus protects the civilian with a map. I don't like your push on JJJ/Golden for a couple reasons: 1) it's likelier than both of them have the map than Marmot even though you talked about voting Marmot; multiple people talked about voting JJJ and Golden makes a good target by rep alone, 2) it's an extraordinarily shallow thing to hammer on that has nothing to do with alignment which is something I think you're aware of.

[Nachomamma8]

JJJ faking having the map is a decent towntell for me on top of fairly good engagement/content so far.

Is this fishing?

A type of fishing, certainly, but not the type you're accusing me of.

That's good. I don't think the type of fishing I was accusing you of is wise.

What's going on here? What are the two types of fishing you guys are referring to? the original quote seems pretty straightforward to me, so Golden what did you think he was fishing for and Nacho what do you mean by that answer? I feel really dumb right now but I feel like I'm missing something in subtext here and I don't like missing things.

I'm also confused about a couple other things I'll get to in another post

Was cryptic for a reason, but I'll be happy to respond after a certain player responds/doesn't respond if it still tugs at you.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Returning to Sorsha:

I think some of the discussion of her content has become more specific than is necessary to qualify a meaningful read. That's not critical, as it's sometimes a natural result of deliberate, intensive digging in an environment of minimal content (as the thread was at the time). I would describe her post history as follows:

I see no immediate reason to judge her posts as being town-inclined. None of them have nudged me in that direction for any small reason. I do believe that there is space to describe her posts as mafia-inclined though, even if it isn't necessarily compelling. I would say that she has kept herself at a bit of a distance, even when she has been speaking directly to people (primarily to me). She has received questions and she has answered them, and she has made observations of game events -- but always with a tone of neutrality that does not readily promote further dialogue. This has her trending in the negative direction for me.

link for reference

[Nachomamma8]

There are 159 posts in this thread, and 102 of them belong the last four players to make a post plus the host.

Yeah, that's a thing.
For people like me, this is going to be a lot of catch up reading after the weekends.
I have half a mind to get my mafia buddies to kill all of you gabbers.

Also, I'm fairly sure that it's too late to say that I have the map. But we should definitely go east. We should get no closer to the Yanks.

I swear I'll learn your names and help lynch one of you during the week.

All my love.

Liked this post and just realize we have a little more time than I thought we did.

Tempted to go to sleep since I've already found scum, but will attempt plugging away so I have less to catchup on during my fun filled day tomorrow.

[Nachomamma8]

I have no problem with people lying in order to protect the person with the actual map.

The part I have a problem with is fake-claimers taking votes away from the person with the REAL map, causing us to go places we don't want to go.

None have claimed that Map information told them which way to go, which is why your push is as flawed as it is but suddenly I've lost confidence in a vote I haven't even made yet.

Bad Guys R In Here:

Quin
Long Con
JOH
DrWilgy
Sorsha
speedchuck
Scotty
Elohcin
DFaraday
Dyslexicon
Nachomamma

Yeah it's a huge list. Don't care.

Spoiler: show

Remove me and speedchuck and maaaaaybe Quin and you're three steps closer to solving the game!
Why is Marmot a townread?

Dyslexicon slip is fairly compelling. I reiterate the call for no majority yet, but think that people who are afraid of a hammer when we still need 7 votes to get there is probably overly cautious.

Vote: Dyslexicon

[Golden]

JJJ faking having the map is a decent towntell for me on top of fairly good engagement/content so far.

Is this fishing?

A type of fishing, certainly, but not the type you're accusing me of.

That's good. I don't think the type of fishing I was accusing you of is wise.

What's going on here? What are the two types of fishing you guys are referring to? the original quote seems pretty straightforward to me, so Golden what did you think he was fishing for and Nacho what do you mean by that answer? I feel really dumb right now but I feel like I'm missing something in subtext here and I don't like missing things.

I'm also confused about a couple other things I'll get to in another post

Nacho, I don't understand your fishing, but does it hurt at all for me to explain to nutella the kind I was thinking of?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I do, however, think the possible Dyslexicon-slip to be much more juicy. The INH vote is just a pressure-vote... if Slex can't explain this 5-knowledge, then the vote cast would be quite a bit more serious.

My eyeball is tweaking at this post. That highlighted bit looks inauthentic to me, in that Long Con is sort of sacrificing the proposed value of his vote (the pressure is inherently decreased when the vote is declared to be about pressure) just so he can heap on with the Dyslexicon slip. Whether Dizzy is scum or not, Long Con's support with this language he employed looks like a player who feels the need to step in rather than a player who has a personal investment in developing his understanding.

[Nachomamma8]

Other people that could die are Soneji for his perspective on Silver Lantern who is painfully and unmistakably obvtown, and Scotty for lame presence this game when he had awesome presence as town last game and underwhelming presence as scum.

I think Strawhenge joins Silver Lantern and Fred for my "bet the farm" townreads, feel pretty good about the big three in Quin/JJJ/Golden so far although incidentally those three is where I'm the most cautious in my townreading.

Also townreading nutella and INH and probably other people to a degree less than the SUPATOWN group but more than the big three. Am sure that I'm missing things but too tired to figure out what, fading out now.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Remove me and speedchuck and maaaaaybe Quin and you're three steps closer to solving the game!

I could consider all of the above.

Why is Marmot a townread?

Because he pretended to have the map before anyone else did. I appreciate the cover.

This is to say that it is possible, under certain conditions, for me to not have a town read on Marmot.

[Nachomamma8]

Golden thought that I was role/item fishing, what I was doing is fishing for reactions.

I thought that it was possible someone could think that I had slipped knowledge of JJJ not having the map if I said that I knew he was faking it/thought it was possible there was someone who would push back strongly against me for item-fishing. I don't think that the initial comment was harmful because all I gave was an unsubstantiated opinion that may or may not be a false one; the person who I was interested in responding in particular was INH because I thought his map perspective was weird but have cooled on that after his follow up pushes. I'm shutting the test down because people have probably talked about it too much for it to be useful anymore.

[nutella]

OK, so the other thing I was confused about was the whole deal between Silver Lantern/Quin/Soneji/Nacho. I've reread enough to get the gist of it but I still feel like I'm missing a couple things, namely (a) why Nacho immediately placed a vote on Soneji just because he disagreed with his vote/didn't think SL was suspicious (? at least that's how I interpreted that?) and (b) in SL's original overreactive response to Quin, did he ever actually express suspicion of Quin for it? Because I didn't get that impression, but Soneji thought he was "backhandedly" accusing Quin of being scum and Nacho wondered why SL didn't go ahead and vote for Quin. And SL's response about that just now doesn't really elucidate for me whether or not he did find Quin suspicious in the first place and/or still does.

Sorry if the wording of this post is a mess/hard to follow, but that's how I've felt about much of this discussion anyway, so my stream of consciousness here may reflect that

linki: Again, nacho, why do you think Soneji is automatically bad for suspecting SL from that one post? That's still the only post Soneji has made in the game, and I admit I find it a little odd that he found it worthy of an immediate vote (but that could just be a style thing/excusable by it being a changeable vote game), but he could come back any time and clarify or revise his viewpoint. That you're so hellbent against him based on a single and his only post in the game is a little odd to me. I do have a good read on you so far, I'm just having trouble understanding a few of your perspectives.

One other thing that's been bothering me -- in that line about reasons for mafia to kill people, it sounded like you identify "posing a threat" and "possessing an item" as two separate things. Do you not think the latter could easily constitute the former? Later (re: LC) you seem to agree/go along with the notion that a trusted civ gaining an item gets a target painted on their back, so you must understand that a civ who possesses an item (that could contain valuable information that could threaten the mafia) is a threat to the mafia, and would be a likely target for a kill. So why did you say that original thing, where you seemed to be almost imposing a dichotomy or at least a hierarchy between the two, rather than acknowledging that one could be a reason for the other? Or did I misunderstand it?

[Golden]

Sorry. I did think you could be fishing for a reaction from me. It seems I'm in the habit of shutting down peoples tests these days.

[nutella]

Golden thought that I was role/item fishing, what I was doing is fishing for reactions.

I thought that it was possible someone could think that I had slipped knowledge of JJJ not having the map if I said that I knew he was faking it/thought it was possible there was someone who would push back strongly against me for item-fishing. I don't think that the initial comment was harmful because all I gave was an unsubstantiated opinion that may or may not be a false one; the person who I was interested in responding in particular was INH because I thought his map perspective was weird but have cooled on that after his follow up pushes. I'm shutting the test down because people have probably talked about it too much for it to be useful anymore.

Still don't really follow, but ok.

[Long Con]

Silver Lantern, a little tidbit to augment your understanding of this alien land:

When I played on HCR with y'all, one thing I immediately noticed was a significant focus upon night actions, a focus so sharp that it trumped behavioral assessment in the thread. In this case, even in this closed setup we have here, I think you can safely anticipate the exact opposite. You may even have a unique advantage compared to many Syndicate regulars in this regard -- this setup is probably more like what you're used to than what we're used to.

Can you explain how this focus works? I imagine the only public night actions revealed are the kills... are you saying people instantly come out saying, "I was blocked", "I got a message", etc?