Game of Champions 2022 mafia win lol

[Party Crasher]

yea to put it in a more concise way @Dyslexicon

if we are at 3v2, its an unnecessary risk to chop me first (what if im town? and its actually 4v1) (talking from your pov, assuming ur town, as if im you right now)

if we are at 4v1, and chop me today, we would be using both of our remaining chops to kill me, where instead we can use both of those chops to kill me AND another person beforehand

if im the sole mafia remaining, and we chop a town today, that only loses for town and wins for hypotethical mafia me if i pull a random kill out of my ass tonight

but ... mafia has had no unexplained KP the entire game except the urist and kate day kills. there have been 0 extra NKs. for many many nights now. so i think its somewhat safe to assume last mafia wont pull a random extra NK out of ass

-t

Part of me is concerned about how hard you are working to make this point.

is it really working hard when it's a direct response to someone speculating about our vest again

[Party Crasher]

anyway today's the day gamers

[Sloonei]

yea to put it in a more concise way @Dyslexicon

if we are at 3v2, its an unnecessary risk to chop me first (what if im town? and its actually 4v1) (talking from your pov, assuming ur town, as if im you right now)

if we are at 4v1, and chop me today, we would be using both of our remaining chops to kill me, where instead we can use both of those chops to kill me AND another person beforehand

if im the sole mafia remaining, and we chop a town today, that only loses for town and wins for hypotethical mafia me if i pull a random kill out of my ass tonight

but ... mafia has had no unexplained KP the entire game except the urist and kate day kills. there have been 0 extra NKs. for many many nights now. so i think its somewhat safe to assume last mafia wont pull a random extra NK out of ass

-t

Part of me is concerned about how hard you are working to make this point.

is it really working hard when it's a direct response to someone speculating about our vest again

Kind of. I think a better way to say it would be that you seem more focused on self-preservation than I would like.

If it is 4v1 today, then eliminating nobody means it's still 4v1. We can avoid the potential of extra kill shenanigans ending the game tonight. If we want to go that route, the most productive way to not eliminate anyone would be to test your vest (or Golden's vest, I suppose). You framing it as purely antithetical to town's win condition has me mildly concerned.

[Party Crasher]

yea to put it in a more concise way @Dyslexicon

if we are at 3v2, its an unnecessary risk to chop me first (what if im town? and its actually 4v1) (talking from your pov, assuming ur town, as if im you right now)

if we are at 4v1, and chop me today, we would be using both of our remaining chops to kill me, where instead we can use both of those chops to kill me AND another person beforehand

if im the sole mafia remaining, and we chop a town today, that only loses for town and wins for hypotethical mafia me if i pull a random kill out of my ass tonight

but ... mafia has had no unexplained KP the entire game except the urist and kate day kills. there have been 0 extra NKs. for many many nights now. so i think its somewhat safe to assume last mafia wont pull a random extra NK out of ass

-t

Part of me is concerned about how hard you are working to make this point.

is it really working hard when it's a direct response to someone speculating about our vest again

Kind of. I think a better way to say it would be that you seem more focused on self-preservation than I would like.

If it is 4v1 today, then eliminating nobody means it's still 4v1. We can avoid the potential of extra kill shenanigans ending the game tonight. If we want to go that route, the most productive way to not eliminate anyone would be to test your vest (or Golden's vest, I suppose). You framing it as purely antithetical to town's win condition has me mildly concerned.

Golden doesn't have a vest iirc since they only neighbourize dead people and they have no one to redirect onto

you can do as you please but framing our posts today as being more focused on self-preservation is boringly incorrect and proven wrong after a five-second glance at our ISO

[Sloonei]

framing our posts today as being more focused on self-preservation

Not all of them. Just these ones.

[Party Crasher]

framing our posts today as being more focused on self-preservation

Not all of them. Just these ones.

You seem more focused on arguing than I would like*.

* for legal reasons this is a joke and not actual shade

bye have fun kiss kiss

[Sloonei]

framing our posts today as being more focused on self-preservation

Not all of them. Just these ones.

You seem more focused on arguing than I would like*.

* for legal reasons this is a joke and not actual shade

bye have fun kiss kiss

I mean, yeah. Kinda.

[Golden]

I won’t be able to save anyone, dizzy. Relied on me having actual neighbours.

There’s more houses here but no one wants to move in.

[Party Crasher]

Kind of. I think a better way to say it would be that you seem more focused on self-preservation than I would like.

If it is 4v1 today, then eliminating nobody means it's still 4v1. We can avoid the potential of extra kill shenanigans ending the game tonight. If we want to go that route, the most productive way to not eliminate anyone would be to test your vest (or Golden's vest, I suppose). You framing it as purely antithetical to town's win condition has me mildly concerned.

if you chop me today to break my vest - i dont flip - what happens tomorrow sloonei? its 3v1. do we just eliminate porscha as originally? if so - why break my vest, when we could have potentially killed someone? (me included)?

i know that im not mafia with no extra kp. i am arguing for a line of play that get town 2 chops rather than 1

i understand that it might be concerning for people who dont know my alignment

but i know it. so i am doing my thing where i share the line of play that gives town the best chances to win, armed with the info i have (my alignment)

originally i was talking to dizzy in the first place. he has had me as his prime suspect this whole day, so naturally - yes, i am offering elaborate arguments to persuade him otherwise

coz thats how ur supposed to play as town too, (yes, as mafia too, but as town too, lol)

-t

[Party Crasher]

also what does testing my vest even mean? why cant i be either alignment with a vest? i dont feel like if u chop me and i dont die u will suddenly think im town - why would u?

the only line of play where u chop me today is if u chop me tomorrow again - thats the best line if im the sole mafia remaining and i have extra surprise kp - from my pov

so, i think that if u go for the line of chopping me today, youre just utterly convinced im mafia, and youre paranoid about extra kp. which fair enough, we can talk about that - but - its just not the optimal strategy from the "just to be safe" pov. like its not lol. that's definitely not "the safest" / "most neutral" line. but i could be biased coz i know im not mafia so i dont have your paranoia. shrug emoji

-t

[Golden]

To be fair, I did also go through the thought process of 'chopping PCs vest would prove they are town, and give us an extra confirmed townie going into the following day' - I just got to the point of realising that it's pointless trading sloonei's confirmed townie status for yours.

And given I'm now very sure your vest won't work if you're wolf... I think the answer is we just chop who we think is bad, full stop.

@Sloonei what did you think of what I perceive as tutuu townderping.

[Dyslexicon]

Good evening

[Dyslexicon]

How sure is people it's Porscha? I'm catching up

[Party Crasher]

I just got to the point of realising that it's pointless trading sloonei's confirmed townie status for yours.

i didnt think of that - but yeah makes sense

basically, u guys get to make a choice

1) do you want an extra chop and risk losing the game if im mafia with a hidden KP ive been hiding for i dont know how many nights

2) or u dont want an extra chop, and u dont risk losing the game if im mafia with a hidden KP that ive been hiding for i know how many nights

i believe thats the tradeoff, right?

-t

[Dyslexicon]

I am rotating through ISOs, reading one page at a time.

I think Dizzy is town.

This is a combination of Dizzy just looking like a person who is taking the thread in organically, and all of the dead soup nazis having their own micro interactions with Dizzy that absolutely do not look like teammate interactions.

I also am struggling to form a view of this game where it mechanically makes sense for Party Crasher to be mafia. Maybe they could be a hydra lost wolf. But having that slot be mafia would be wacky in terms of both mechanics and their (tutuu's) activity in the game.

So is it Golden or is it Porscha?

Them being exactly hydra lost wolf is one of my theories. I don't think it's impossible for them to be regular mafia based on being many heads, however, I do recall some of the flipped mafia seeming unteamed with PC based on looking confused as to what is up with the slot. So if we're assuming no lost wolf, then I can more easily see them being town, and it's just Porscha. I think maybe I'm extra paranoid about the slot because it would just fit well with lost wolf. But there being something in the rules about "if there's lost wolf" does not guarantee it.

[Dyslexicon]

Golden's early-game progression on Alison feels noteworthy.

It starts off with some blunt dismissal of her early suspcision. Then it turns into open skepticism. After a brief back-and-forth, he seeks more elaboration from people who know Alison. But then he eventually settles on a town read, specifically citing some similarities he sees between Alison and himself.

I think this progression looks authentic. More importantly, I don't think a mafia member goes through this much effort to arrive at a town read of their partner on Day 1 of a game.

Does this mean it's just Porscha?

Golden saying he baited Alison to kill him checks out. I also came to the conclusion that his interactions with Alison is clearing.

[Dyslexicon]

so from this pov, u might wanna consider not chopping us coz

if we're mafia:

1) if its 3v2 lylo, u could chop us, but u could also chop the other mafia

2) if its 4v1, the chop gets wasted, we dont get a flip, 3v1 mylo tomorrow

whereas if we chop town today, tomorrow if its 2v1 lylo, our shield will be worn off, so u can kill us with one chop if we're mafia

(thats if we're hypotehtically mafia)

and obviously if we're town (which we are) its pretty bad to waste the chop on us, not only coz we're town, but u know, coz it doesnt even get a flip

-t

How likely do you think it's 3v2 here? I really can't see it.

[Dyslexicon]

yeah sloonei in case u missed it

our "vest" extends to not just normal death, but to getting chopped once lol (we claimed it pretty early, day 2 i think, maybe day 3) (it falls off in lylo)

-t

Mine doesn't extend to getting chopped.

And I want you to double check. Is it lylo, or just if it ends the game?

lylo and ends the game is interchangable when it comes to getting chopped during the day

during the night, our vest should still work even if us getting shot would otherwise end the game. it doesnt make sense not to, thats how bp vests always work, and ours is standard in that regard. ours isnt a redirect like yours, ours is pretty simple. its just the first time we die, we dont (and it extends to chop) (but not lylo)

-t

This is a townderp.

If it’s 4v1, it’s not lylo but chopping the wolf still ends the game.

I think PC would be viscerally aware of this if wolf.

I don't get it tbh

[Dyslexicon]

yeah sloonei in case u missed it

our "vest" extends to not just normal death, but to getting chopped once lol (we claimed it pretty early, day 2 i think, maybe day 3) (it falls off in lylo)

-t

Mine doesn't extend to getting chopped.

And I want you to double check. Is it lylo, or just if it ends the game?

lylo and ends the game is interchangable when it comes to getting chopped during the day

during the night, our vest should still work even if us getting shot would otherwise end the game. it doesnt make sense not to, thats how bp vests always work, and ours is standard in that regard. ours isnt a redirect like yours, ours is pretty simple. its just the first time we die, we dont (and it extends to chop) (but not lylo)

-t

This is a townderp.

If it’s 4v1, it’s not lylo but chopping the wolf still ends the game.

I think PC would be viscerally aware of this if wolf.

I don't get it tbh

I mean, I do get it, but it's not impossible to write that as mafia imo

[Party Crasher]

so from this pov, u might wanna consider not chopping us coz

if we're mafia:

1) if its 3v2 lylo, u could chop us, but u could also chop the other mafia

2) if its 4v1, the chop gets wasted, we dont get a flip, 3v1 mylo tomorrow

whereas if we chop town today, tomorrow if its 2v1 lylo, our shield will be worn off, so u can kill us with one chop if we're mafia

(thats if we're hypotehtically mafia)

and obviously if we're town (which we are) its pretty bad to waste the chop on us, not only coz we're town, but u know, coz it doesnt even get a flip

-t

How likely do you think it's 3v2 here? I really can't see it.

I dont find it likely either - i was just trying to think of every possibility

This response could be both @ u and @ sloonei: my brain has been in "theory" mode these last couple of posts and not "practical" mode, if that makes any sense

Also im utterly terrified of losing. 2020goc endgame was miserable. I have lost most if not all endgames i survive to as town. Its just a lot of bad memories. I feel stressed (im still town)

-t

[Party Crasher]

Most of all im afraid of toxic dvc chat

-t

[Dyslexicon]

@Dyslexicon When you're awake and here, what are your best reasons to town read everybody?

Golden - His claim checks out with what he has said in thread. Especially the part about baiting Alison is clearing to me. He seems extremely town on play. Him moving off of SVS and asking others to join doesn't seem like something Golden would do as wolf (based on my, admittedly limited experience). He's been defending me also before I could prove my role, which I don't think he would need to as mafia. If Golden is mafia, I've never been buddied more in my life.

PC - Seems town on play for the most part. Although I didn't like their D5 at all. But flipped mafia seemed confused about the slot and treated it as 3p. Seems like a strange line to take if you know the slot is mafia. This is probably the best reason I have. Does seem very solvy.

Porscha - Seems to be more active and solvy than what I remember her having been as mafia before. I don't think joining the death event is clearing though, because nobody knew how many was going to die. It's mostly just meta reading that has lead me to believe Porscha is town. But I'm coming around to thinking it's probably just her. Or I'm surrendering to it. It's probably not a good idea to solve on the assumption of a lost wolf.

[Dyslexicon]

I feel like Porscha is the lost wolf. Her claim is so bad. She's an inventor that forgot to submit an action on 2 nights, and when she did successfully submit, her target received nothing. The main pack wolves had good claims (see SVS). Porscha probably didn't have access to main chat

-t

You're assuming lost wolf?

[Dyslexicon]

You're just getting pocketed cuz you like seeing yourself in the dizzy mirror? Sigh

It's clearly not just that

[Party Crasher]

I feel like Porscha is the lost wolf. Her claim is so bad. She's an inventor that forgot to submit an action on 2 nights, and when she did successfully submit, her target received nothing. The main pack wolves had good claims (see SVS). Porscha probably didn't have access to main chat

-t

You're assuming lost wolf?

That was just a thought i had

Right now - I have no idea really

-t

[Dyslexicon]

Either I'm confbiasing, or Porscha's posts today are way worse

[Dyslexicon]

(I think the response of t!Porscha to the PC town clear is a dizzy vote not a golden tinfoil).

I am doing my due diligence here that's all this is

I'm obviously not using an agenda to push any specific player which at this point the wolf should be having to do a little more to cinch the ML and keep eyes off of them if they are subtle enough about it

So I'm sure you understand why I'm becoming a little more wary of you as you keep repeatedly posting about me and how I have to be the last wolf

I feel like you've been softly pushing towards me tbh. How would you rank your reads right now?

[Dyslexicon]

Every time I'm thinking about the game it goes from thinking everyone is town to everyone being possible mafia and back again. I really want to trust Golden. That's the read I'm banking on

Why not pc or sloonei?

Sloonei is confirmed town in my eyes, baring very unfortunate circumstances. Golden is my other town read that I feel sure on, as sure as I can be, is what I meant.

[Dyslexicon]

Not really here but

Is there anyway to game mechanics to lock the game or save time or is it too risky? If PC is telling the truth, they are chop proof, we would need two rounds to chop them. Going PC doesn't even lose if town, probably? And if they are mafia lying, then lol. Golden claims he can protect from NK, if I understood that correctly? Porscha claims to give out something, but nobody has gotten anything? Can this be confirmed. Sloonei is confirmed town anyway, unless Rondo has been lying, which I'm not even going to consider an option. This is really half baked

im chop proof only before LyLo

meaning if u chop me now and its 4v1, u get no flip, and u chop me tomorrow again - cool, but thats 1 actual kill in 2 chops

whereas

we can chop anyone else today

and if we miss, u can chop me tomorrow and instantly kill me if im mafia. that's 2 kills for 2 chops

i havent thought about it much how this looks from an outside pov that doesnt have confirmation im town (like i do), but,

if u just roughly crunch some numbers based on gut, i feel like u should come to the conclusion that chopping me today might me the -EV, right? or whatevers the term. like statistically the worst chop (as it accomplishes nothing, unless u think im lying)

and if we are at 3v2 lylo and u think im mafia u can always chop my partner in Golden/Porscha from your pov @Dyslexicon

-t

I was thinking more in terms of 1) I think you might be the last wolf (actually, I've changed my mind a bit about that, and I'd rather follow than lead anyway) and 2) even if you aren't we don't lose (unless 3v2 but I think that's extremely unlikely, and if it is gg), but I thought if Golden is able to protect, we don't lose Sloonei, and if we do, Golden is probably mafia. Also Porscha may have another chance to prove her role. Although it's very strange that nothing has happened already. Except all of this doesn't really work, cause there could still be mechanics or things that are unexpected. I was just on break and thinking about it.

Thing is, we only have your word for your vest being gone in lylo. Although, if I'm not mistaken @Golden is sort of confirming that his role has a similar mechanic? So my worry was, if it's you, we may not be able to chop you if we don't do it today. This still may be true for Porscha though.

[Dyslexicon]

Not really here but

Is there anyway to game mechanics to lock the game or save time or is it too risky? If PC is telling the truth, they are chop proof, we would need two rounds to chop them. Going PC doesn't even lose if town, probably? And if they are mafia lying, then lol. Golden claims he can protect from NK, if I understood that correctly? Porscha claims to give out something, but nobody has gotten anything? Can this be confirmed. Sloonei is confirmed town anyway, unless Rondo has been lying, which I'm not even going to consider an option. This is really half baked

In theory going PC doesnt lose us the game but if we happened to be in lylo then it would

Golden can only protect against nk on his own neighbors if he has 2 neighbors which he does not

Yes your question in me is accurate, please refer to my post asking ender if received my email to which he confirms he did not, I also dont know that mac happened to mention recieving anything day 2 or not

I think sloonei is only wolf not from rondo lying but from unknown mechanics screwing up rondos check

Why do you think nobody has received anything?

[Dyslexicon]

yea to put it in a more concise way @Dyslexicon

if we are at 3v2, its an unnecessary risk to chop me first (what if im town? and its actually 4v1) (talking from your pov, assuming ur town, as if im you right now)

if we are at 4v1, and chop me today, we would be using both of our remaining chops to kill me, where instead we can use both of those chops to kill me AND another person beforehand

if im the sole mafia remaining, and we chop a town today, that only loses for town and wins for hypotethical mafia me if i pull a random kill out of my ass tonight

but ... mafia has had no unexplained KP the entire game except the urist and kate day kills. there have been 0 extra NKs. for many many nights now. so i think its somewhat safe to assume last mafia wont pull a random extra NK out of ass

-t

The problem for me is that I have no confirmation for how your vest or thing actually works.

[Dyslexicon]

There may or may not be mechanics that alter and/or restrict abilities at Fx.
[/spoiler]

But this and what Golden said kind of confirms it

[Dyslexicon]

depression.

[Dyslexicon]

To be fair, I did also go through the thought process of 'chopping PCs vest would prove they are town, and give us an extra confirmed townie going into the following day' - I just got to the point of realising that it's pointless trading sloonei's confirmed townie status for yours.

And given I'm now very sure your vest won't work if you're wolf... I think the answer is we just chop who we think is bad, full stop.

@Sloonei what did you think of what I perceive as tutuu townderping.

Popping their vest wouldn't prove them as town though. I'm confused. If they lied and died, that would prove them lying mafia lol. But that's very unlikely that they lied, cause it only creates extra attention. It wasn't a fully formed thought form my side in the first place. If we had better night actions, it might've been worth something.

[Dyslexicon]

We lose to Sloonei being godfather or something weird happening with that investigation. Would suck hard, but I don't feel like there's anything to do about it if it's the case.

We lose to PC being mafia who needs two chops to die. Given the OP, this doesn't seem likely either.

[Party Crasher]

much to the chagrin of sloonei, I am talking about our vest again

keep in mind that if it's 4v1 and you pop our vest, you run the (not insignificant) risk of turning our slot into a dead slot

we started with 6 heads, one of which left immediately

one head posted a couple times d1 and hasn't been seen since

another head stopped reading 100 pages ago or more and goes 5 IRL days between server messages

it's just tutuu, sheep, and me, and our vest getting popped means three of us are randomly removed from the hydra

and dizzy is right, popping our vest doesn't even guarantee we're town. it just means it's not lylo when you pop it.

[Dyslexicon]

Problem is that none of those arguments are good if you're mafia.

But I'm thinking it's probably Porscha. Worst case, unless shenanigans, we would have another shot at this tomorrow. But I hope to god it will be over tonight.

I'm probably just spinning my wheels a bit just in case just in case

[Party Crasher]

Problem is that none of those arguments are good if you're mafia.

Worst case, unless shenanigans, we would have another shot at this tomorrow.

i mean, if you're absolutely certain it's not 3v2 right now

[Party Crasher]

at any rate

are you staying up for EOD, dizzy?

[Dyslexicon]

Problem is that none of those arguments are good if you're mafia.

Worst case, unless shenanigans, we would have another shot at this tomorrow.

i mean, if you're absolutely certain it's not 3v2 right now

That would be you and Golden we lose to, or Sloonei shenanigans, and I will just lose to that.

[Dyslexicon]

at any rate

are you staying up for EOD, dizzy?

Yeah. I can't sleep before a flip

Which is why I'm constantly trying to quit mafia.

[Party Crasher]

i quit for a year, it was pretty nice

now i'm here again

[Party Crasher]

EoD is at 2 am for me just like for u Dizzy. Absolute torture to endgame as town

-t

[Dyslexicon]

i quit for a year, it was pretty nice

now i'm here again

I'm thinking of only playing special events, like GoC and stuff

[Dyslexicon]

EoD is at 2 am for me just like for u Dizzy. Absolute torture to endgame as town

-t

It's actually 1 am for me, but yeah. Also, I have like a normal life with a normal job now, so it's more inconvenient than when I was a hippie freelancer

[Golden]

To be fair, I did also go through the thought process of 'chopping PCs vest would prove they are town, and give us an extra confirmed townie going into the following day' - I just got to the point of realising that it's pointless trading sloonei's confirmed townie status for yours.

And given I'm now very sure your vest won't work if you're wolf... I think the answer is we just chop who we think is bad, full stop.

@Sloonei what did you think of what I perceive as tutuu townderping.

Popping their vest wouldn't prove them as town though. I'm confused. If they lied and died, that would prove them lying mafia lol. But that's very unlikely that they lied, cause it only creates extra attention. It wasn't a fully formed thought form my side in the first place. If we had better night actions, it might've been worth something.

Yes it would.

And the fact you don’t instinctively get this is exactly why the PC thing you think isn’t a townderp IS a townderp.

[Dyslexicon]

Yes it would.

And the fact you don’t instinctively get this is exactly why the PC thing you think isn’t a townderp IS a townderp.

Oh. Game ending constituting also game end for mafia.

[Golden]

PC was the one who, a long time ago, brought up that their vest wouldn’t work at lylo.

Only it’s not lylo. It’s ‘if it would end the game’. Their wording is the same as mine.

If they’re mafia (unless it’s 3v2, but I just don’t think it is), they will die.

Otherwise they invented something in their rolecard (that their vest doesn’t work at lylo) that I can independently prove exists within a town rolecard.

Which is a very odd thing to even think to invent if they are teammates with svs who has a vest without that condition.

[Golden]

Yes it would.

And the fact you don’t instinctively get this is exactly why the PC thing you think isn’t a townderp IS a townderp.

Oh. Game ending constituting also game end for mafia.

Yes.

[Golden]

I was uniquely positioned to have insight into that.