The Late Bronze Age Collapse [END]

[LinearPoint]

I don't necessary think either of these are bad kills. Although I am confused as to why SVS is wolf reading Guillotine, but not voting them despite SVS being Guillotine's current counterwagon.

I would understand if it were town!SVS town reading Guillotine to be fine being potentially executed instead, but from town!SVS wolf reading Guillotine I don't get it.
I'm sort of getting the vibe that it might be that SVS is a Wolf Power Role and Guillotine is a Vanilla Goon. Though I still don't really see Guillotine as too suspect here since I feel as though I've been making many similar vibe posts as Guillotine and people aren't really questioning that at all.
Really the best I can come up with here is that SVS is Mafia and is trying to frame Guillotine as their partner or vice versa. I don't actually feel pretty good that there is a wolf between them though with their interactions between each other.

I'm also thinking maybe SVS and Cat for wolf partners. Cat to be honest is someone I do not ever want to see make it to final 3 with their approach to the game so far. Openly refusing to read the thread or comment on anything besides the top wagon is never a good thing to have around and it comes across as a way to just push heat off of SVS by saying we should focus on anyone but them. I really don't see why Wilgy and Guillotine are town reading this.

MR and Seanize are both sorta in the same boat, but I also know them to be pretty good gamesolvers so them in final 3 isn't likely to be harmful if they are Town (at least I am confident of Seanize there, MR I don't fully remember but I think they caught me as wolf once before).

[Michelle]

How many mafia we have in this game?

Well a post up there ^^ mentions that the “team” can start BTSC, so more than 1. Prolly 2. More than that would be unbalanced and Jay is all about balance.

Why would be 3 unbalanced?

With only 10 players? That’s almost a third of the players list?

His Solar System game had 11 players, 2 mafia. With fewer players more wolves seems unlikely?

This is rather a debatable point to get aggro about?

Here is mentioned the first time the aggro word.
But I was curious, not aggresive
That was the idea in my head.

Actually Michelle is wolfing

[VOTE: Michelle] aubergine

I dont believe you question how 3 wolves would be unbalanced in a game with 10 players

2 is a bit town sided.

Fight me, I am bored ^^

Here is, like I explained, a not serious fight challenge.

If anyone thinks I am/was aggresive, please tell me how.

[Master Radishes]

It seems people are quite confident in their solves so I'll happily assume town is crushing this and let myself be carried to a win.

What makes you say that?

Well some person is like 'X and Y are the mafia team' and someone else is like 'Y and Z are the mafia team' and someone else else is like 'Q and 7 are the mafia team' and it just feels like someone must be correct in there somewhere, you know?

[Master Radishes]

It seems people are quite confident in their solves so I'll happily assume town is crushing this and let myself be carried to a win.

Your opinion is needed MrR, sir!

And your vote, of course.

Eventually, I will get there. I don't intend to be unhelpful (sometimes I can be, being me) but I have now been awake for 28ish hours, mostly spent travelling, and my brain is simply not in a place where I can contribute in any meaningful way.

I've very lightly skimmed so I have impressions, but no firm opinions. I will need to pick up the slack in Day 2.

[Guillotine]

And just like that DrWilgy goes away from a real time convo with me.

Chicken lol

Some of us have better things to do than entertain you Guillo.

More than resolving your alleged pair of Guillo/SvS? Tsk tsk tsk

yeah, I'd say reading two pages of a 7 page game and actually parsing the data there is somewhat important. Then I get to go back to work.

If info within those pages changes the Guillo/SvS pairing fine, but otherwise we sleepy boi hours.

Ok, i think SvS is paired with you, you think SvS is paired with me, wouldnt make more sense to just kill the common factor here but instead you choose to counterwagon me?

I’m not paired with either one of you, but based on this discussion Guillo looks worse than Wilgy to me.

Wilgy is making sense from a Wilgy world perdoective, whereas Guillo just wants to yeet”not himself”.

At this point I’m mainly a distraction, and town may learn most from yeeting me.

From reading back to Michelle’s reaction to Epis case, I had the thought that a yeet of me might be used by Michelle and:or Epi to clear her.

Because his whole case feels made up to me, from my perspective as town. So I might reverse the town reads I had on Michelle and the thought that his case made him town, too, cause I didn’t see it as something bad Epi would do. But Michelle’s reaction to it, I dunno.

Of coursevi dont want to get myself yeeted, im town, it is pro town not to die. Plus you said you'd be ok with dying so what is the problem?

[Guillotine]

Game ends in 14 hours, if in 4 hours momentum has not changed, i will have no choice but to claim.

Dude, you just did.





I don't understand this at all if you're town, what's the point?

The point is not to die obviously, what else?

[Master Radishes]

Here are a couple very loose, half-formed impressions that probably wouldn't hold up to scrutiny if I actually looked back and read posts again - that is, this is all from my memory, not any backreading.


I've only played with Guillo a couple times, and not recently, but I remember feeling a bit of a difference in his town vs scum meta. I don't want to declare any expertise, as (as mentioned) this was some time ago, and I also think I've only played with him when he was scum, but have observed him when he was town, and that will affect my actual perception and so I may not actually have a good grasp of his meta, if that makes sense. Anyway, that long-winded caveat aside, this, in a vacuum, feels a *bit* more like his town meta on /vibes/. A little less performative, a little more straightfoward tunnelly. But that's a mild impression. And also, his progression on claiming PR is...bleh. Like he telegraphed it way too loudly without actually claiming. It feels a bit too blatant. So I'm not as convinced as others seem to be on his guilt, but I think it's a decent D1 vote.

I have to admit I've not really read SVS' posts very closely. I just finished a game with her and I felt I found her as town pretty clearly by the end of D1. If others aren't feeling that here, then I'm mildly concerned. There's obviously a dichotomy with Guillo at play, as (I think) it was he who made the first real case on SVS. I'd rather vote Guillo of these two, but if the town swung the other way I have no reason to fight it.

Michelle got some suss at an earlier point, and I hold her in high esteem and am wary of ever clearing her too quickly because I do think I'm someone she might easily pocket if she were a wolf. But there was at least one moment (don't ask me what, I can't remember) where I just said to myself 'ahh, Michelle is town' and so I'll stick to that impression for now.

Wilgy I think has gotten attention too, and truthfully I'm a bit thrown by him being so...feisty. I don't know that I've ever, personally, played a game with Wilgy where he tried hard (at least in the first few rounds), though I'm aware he does sometimes. So I feel I can't use any meta-based sense of Wilgy to inform a read, and will keep him null in my head for now. Someone I didn't know, I'd say probably town, but it's just different from the Wilgy I'm familiar with, so /shrug.

I don't know that I have any real sense of anyone else. I'm aware of a few who've had a presence, like Epi and Falcon and LP, but their posts haven't stood out to me and I don't think even a gun to my head will force an opinion out of me at this point.

[Guillotine]

Guillo's prolly town, he's swinging at anything he finds sus

Are we playing different games? Guillo's openly advised they are tunneling and they've been hyper fixated upon me/michelle while at the same time svs is scum but didn't say anything about that one?

Some of this just aligns w/ how I've come to expect T Guillo to play, he tunnels all the time, but his soft claim is sus AF IMO






What's your take on his claim?

Why is it sus, it is pro town to prevent the elimination of a town PR in a heist game, why do you disagree?

[Master Radishes]

tl;dr

I guess I'll vote Guillo? But because I'm skimming and my head isn't in the game yet (aforementioned travelling and related circumstances) I've naturally focused on the players/issues that have taken up the most thread oxygen, and will be naturally inclined to focus my own attention there. No one is allowed to take anything I say at this point more than 30% seriously.

[Master Radishes]

Guillo are you going to claim a specific PR?

[Guillotine]

Guillo's prolly town, he's swinging at anything he finds sus

Are we playing different games? Guillo's openly advised they are tunneling and they've been hyper fixated upon me/michelle while at the same time svs is scum but didn't say anything about that one?

Some of this just aligns w/ how I've come to expect T Guillo to play, he tunnels all the time, but his soft claim is sus AF IMO






What's your take on his claim?

a pr knowing that they can negate the one tool town has going for them is not town sided. NAI at best, W at worst.

This guy has agenda.

The day has been stuck with two wagons, where im at risk of getting eliminated if something dramatic does not happen, my claim is that something dramatic.

[Master Radishes]

^That's the thing I forgot to say: on principle I don't like voting PR claims, even if I find Guillo's progression towards his claim a bit iffy, and with that in mind I'm not sure where I'd plop a vote. I might just rent my vote out to Michelle or Wilgy or someone with an active presence who I have no particular reason to be suspicious of.

[Guillotine]

@Guillotine Are you currently scum reading Wilgy? I was mostly curious since Wilgy also had voted with Seanize at the same time Michelle was doing and I recall you mentioning that Wilgy was flip-floppy with their reading of you.

I'm thinking Wilgy looks a bit worse than Michelle in this situation. Mostly due to the fact Wilgy is more or less letting you just go at Michelle here when the same argument you are presenting also applies to Wilgy. There was also the point that Wilgy agreed with me on Town reading Michelle, whom I jotted down that Wilgy was scum reading early. And despite as of post #149 Wilgy moving over to Town reading Michelle, they have seemed content to allow you to just go after her freely, unquestioned.

What do you mean by this? Why would I interject for Michelle rather than try to solve between Guillo/Michelle as I observe their interactions. While I do think it's likely Michelle saw the same 'poopoo on the thread' that resulted in the vote that I did, I gave reasoning for it (at michelle's request) to which Michelle was in agreement with. I wouldn't be able to parse weather or not Michelle just took the reason I gave as their own in mimicry or not.

I feel as if you didn't read why I had Michelle in the read before posting this. I'd advise looking at that again. Michelle's equity, even early, was always in direct contrast to Guillo, the better I feel about Guillo the worse I feel about Michelle and the inverse. Both of them had reasons to be red in my first rainbow.

I asked Wilgy the question earlier about what they would read me and Falcon as if both SVS and you were Town. They were adamant that falcon would always be Town, even if it turns out they are currently leading a mischop, but were not willing to say I was Mafia or Town either way in that same scenario.


To me with what you were saying about Wilgy earlier and their answer to my question I think they might be scum hedging their bets a bit and trying not to get too in the way of anyone spearheading a vote.

Yes, because Falcon has extensive meta to reflect that their posting is town. It has nothing to do with any equity towards or against other players. I do not have that same read for you.

Outside of Michelle, do you have any other instances where I'm hedging as opposed to solving? I think 112 put it well in your recent game, 'is me hedging scum indicative? OR is it me parsing the data and moving reads around?'

Trying to deflect and say I did not read your posts is not going to do a whole lot to convince me. I've read through your posts and the game significantly more than you have if I were a betting man.

I know full well you do not think they are a scum pair, that was pretty obvious by your firsts reads list. The point was that you were, up to the point I made your quoted post, a fairly active person in the discussion. So you to suddenly drop a response to my town read of Michelle with an affirmation that you agreed, then proceeded to step aside and not comment further on Guillotine or Michelle when Guillotine was laying out their case for Michelle is very odd to me. I would expect for someone who had a strong wolf read on Guillotine and a (at least) a town lean on Michelle to comment on the ongoing case that their scum read was making on a town read of there's.

The fact that you said you were trying to avoid talking about it looks even worse for you in my eyes. For Wolf!Wilgy this is just a win/win/win. You get a free mislynch on Michelle and you can pawn it off on Guillotine because you were already scum reading them and all you had to do was put no effort into defending your town read while you main scum read pushes.

Advising how I feel on a subject is not deflecting. I did not say you did not read it, I said how it made me feel about it. The advisement comes regardless of if you did or not. It is not a competition of who read more you silly chameleon.

I had to get back to work and returned to the thread when I could. I'd glance at it on my phone, but without the ability to invest time into it I felt no need to comment. I could barely absorb the information from Guillo's and Michelle's big posts (something I'm just kinda bad at in general). I have also commented on it upon returning. Still very much feels in the realm of forced narrative from Guillo.

There's a big difference between 'I'm trying to avoid talking about it' and 'I'm not going to interject.' I've spoken about it. I think out of Michelle/Guillo at this point, there's likely a W guillo but not Michelle. Again, Guillo feels like they've been forcing a narrative that isn't accurate.

I also wasn't aware that you were referring to specifically when I had to step away. Seems kinda shifty to sr someone for that. Like I was just working.

Watch this guy, he is creating a dichotomy where if im town Michelle is scum.

Michelle is town

[Guillotine]

It seems people are quite confident in their solves so I'll happily assume town is crushing this and let myself be carried to a win.

NO! Get your ass back here Radishman!

Potential pair here

[Seanzie]

Hello!

I am here, but only for a little bit. What is going on?

[Guillotine]

Michelle posts actually seems more like baiting discussion than actually slipping something, she came back from work, started talking to people and trying to rile them up, unlike Guillotina who did nothing to start and start flailing when they get called out... I don't know the attentiveness of th people here but i'm pretty sure directly talking to people is more likely to create actual discussion then ignoring them. I won't give pointers since im a reactionary player myself but if you want to get people to talk about you it's much better to do something else than make the entire thread suspect you by saying something bland or generic

What is your take away from this Cat? This feels like there should be a conclusion following this but there isn't.

Should be pretty self-explanatory. Michelle is a villager, Gullotine is a wolf, SVS is null. The rest i don't have much opinion on. Nor a lot of time to dissect either. I'll just see where the wind takes me.

What will your world be when you see my town flip?m

[Guillotine]

Hello!

I am here, but only for a little bit. What is going on?

Have you at least read the game?

[Seanzie]

Hello!

I am here, but only for a little bit. What is going on?

Have you at least read the game?

If I had read the game, I wouldn't need someone to tell me what's going on.

What's going on?

[Guillotine]

If I'm wrong at any point, there's another several hours to discuss it. Guillotine called me good (I don't know why) and S~V~S has said nothing about me (I don't know why).

One thing is for sure:

Unlike Ozymandias, I will be back later.

If you still dont know why, you have not been reading or lack of reading comprehension or dont understand language or you are myopic

Why don't you think Epi could be scum here, pushing an agenda?

Because i put myself on his shoes to see from his vantage point what he saw, and i can see that my reason to vote SvS at the time looked based on poor logic. It id a townie thought.

Talking about that poor logic, why do you think someone taking advantage of your mistake, if you are town, is town motivated?

Because that lines up to what ive seen from town!Epi, he is like me, trying to catch people with gotchas

[Guillotine]

Hello!

I am here, but only for a little bit. What is going on?

Have you at least read the game?

If I had read the game, I wouldn't need someone to tell me what's going on.

What's going on?

Nah bro. Inrather be voted out than become your assistant, work, like i did.

[Michelle]

From the OP

1.) Claim whatever you want if anything. This game has no roles.

Thoughts?

[Guillotine]

I don't necessary think either of these are bad kills. Although I am confused as to why SVS is wolf reading Guillotine, but not voting them despite SVS being Guillotine's current counterwagon.

Most likely to make me look aligned with them if they are scum

[Michelle]

Hello!

I am here, but only for a little bit. What is going on?

Have you at least read the game?

If I had read the game, I wouldn't need someone to tell me what's going on.

What's going on?

A mafia game, people suspecting/ accusing each other with various levels of confidence and agenda.
Do you want to take part?

[Guillotine]

From the OP

1.) Claim whatever you want if anything. This game has no roles.

Thoughts?

“All Heist requirements respected, so anticipate a vanilla-heavy non-mountainous experience”

[Guillotine]

Harclaim Parity Cop

[Seanzie]

Hello!

I am here, but only for a little bit. What is going on?

Have you at least read the game?

If I had read the game, I wouldn't need someone to tell me what's going on.

What's going on?

Nah bro. Inrather be voted out than become your assistant, work, like i did.

Yup, that's what I'm doing.

My semester started yesterday, and tbh I kinda forgot about this game in the start-of-semester rush. I'mma try to find some time to do some ISOs or something tonight before EoD, but honestly probably won't actually catch up until this weekend.

[Michelle]

If I'm wrong at any point, there's another several hours to discuss it. Guillotine called me good (I don't know why) and S~V~S has said nothing about me (I don't know why).

One thing is for sure:

Unlike Ozymandias, I will be back later.

If you still dont know why, you have not been reading or lack of reading comprehension or dont understand language or you are myopic

Why don't you think Epi could be scum here, pushing an agenda?

Because i put myself on his shoes to see from his vantage point what he saw, and i can see that my reason to vote SvS at the time looked based on poor logic. It id a townie thought.

Talking about that poor logic, why do you think someone taking advantage of your mistake, if you are town, is town motivated?

Because that lines up to what ive seen from town!Epi, he is like me, trying to catch people with gotchas

Personally I think scum Epi wouldn't let his mate without his presence so many hours after posting first in the game, and from this reason I never had Epi in scum reads.

The rest of his posts felt like he found something really suspicious, not like he has a scum agenda to push.
Also, i liked what he said.

[Seanzie]

Hello!

I am here, but only for a little bit. What is going on?

Have you at least read the game?

If I had read the game, I wouldn't need someone to tell me what's going on.

What's going on?

A mafia game, people suspecting/ accusing each other with various levels of confidence and agenda.
Do you want to take part?

Yes, who should I accuse and suspect, what level of confidence should I be at with respect to them, and what should my agenda be?

[Guillotine]

If I'm wrong at any point, there's another several hours to discuss it. Guillotine called me good (I don't know why) and S~V~S has said nothing about me (I don't know why).

One thing is for sure:

Unlike Ozymandias, I will be back later.

If you still dont know why, you have not been reading or lack of reading comprehension or dont understand language or you are myopic

Why don't you think Epi could be scum here, pushing an agenda?

Because i put myself on his shoes to see from his vantage point what he saw, and i can see that my reason to vote SvS at the time looked based on poor logic. It id a townie thought.

Talking about that poor logic, why do you think someone taking advantage of your mistake, if you are town, is town motivated?

Because that lines up to what ive seen from town!Epi, he is like me, trying to catch people with gotchas

Personally I think scum Epi wouldn't let his mate without his presence so many hours after posting first in the game, and from this reason I never had Epi in scum reads.

The rest of his posts felt like he found something really suspicious, not like he has a scum agenda to push.
Also, i liked what he said.

Yah the guy to me is town. Ive seen him powerwolf, he'd have no problem burying me with tne momentum i have

[Michelle]

Harclaim Parity Cop

Ok, you have my attention

[VOTE: unvote] aubergine

[Guillotine]

Harclaim Parity Cop

Ok, you have my attention

[VOTE: unvote] aubergine

Can we finally work together or not. Im gonna die soon, i dont think im gonna see the day where i can reveal a parity check now that i claimed! Thanks!

[Seanzie]

I was gonna vote SVS after ISOing them, but then Guillo claimed parity cop so I don't want to move off Guillo.

[Guillotine]

I was gonna vote SVS after ISOing them, but then Guillo claimed parity cop so I don't want to move off Guillo.

Do what you want, my flip will confirm it if i die.

[Guillotine]

Ive done everything that i could possibly do, gave a poe, gave you my townreads, gave you a condicional and my role, now it is up to town what happens next.

[Michelle]

Hello!

I am here, but only for a little bit. What is going on?

Have you at least read the game?

If I had read the game, I wouldn't need someone to tell me what's going on.

What's going on?

A mafia game, people suspecting/ accusing each other with various levels of confidence and agenda.
Do you want to take part?

Yes, who should I accuse and suspect, what level of confidence should I be at with respect to them, and what should my agenda be?

Well, I suspected Guillo and he suspected me, so both we had a heated argument.
SVS has low impact in the game, willing to die if she can't get out of Poe.
Wilgy is my TR but he keeps his cards close to the chest (my impression), and also Guillo's suspect. The fact Guillo wanted to turn attention to him gave me the heebie jeebies and I suspected Guillo even more.
Linear is questioning everyone and has an interesting playstyle, but I have no meta and despite his rich content I don't have any vibe read.
Radishes is towny at least.
Cat has little posts but I liked them, also no meta so take it as a vibe read.
Falcon is towny.

I forgot anyone?

[Michelle]

Harclaim Parity Cop

Ok, you have my attention

[VOTE: unvote] aubergine

Can we finally work together or not. Im gonna die soon, i dont think im gonna see the day where i can reveal a parity check now that i claimed! Thanks!

Maybe there'd be a doctor in the house as well?

[LinearPoint]

I mean Mafia would be silly to attack a Parity Cop Nigh 1.
Guillotine's claim just means that they will be safe from virtually all Wolf non-Roleblocker roles and draw in Town-aligned Protective Roles.
It's a very safe claim for a wolf, I'll say that. It wont be CCed today, maybe tomorrow another Cop might CC. And most townies wont want to chop a Cop claim Day 1.

[Michelle]

I am aware that the wolves may not kill Guillo even if he is town parity cop, because of wifom.

I survived until endgame as full cop in this site, go figure, and we lost because my red cheched claimed miller and played like a god, also town played bad. That's in the part of the head where I throw garbage I want to forget but these things don't let themselves flushed out, while useful infos like meta of SVS are vanishing as soon as the games end. Oh well..

[Michelle]

I mean Mafia would be silly to attack a Parity Cop Nigh 1.
Guillotine's claim just means that they will be safe from virtually all Wolf non-Roleblocker roles and draw in Town-aligned Protective Roles.
It's a very safe claim for a wolf, I'll say that. It wont be CCed today, maybe tomorrow another Cop might CC. And most townies wont want to chop a Cop claim Day 1.

This is correct.

[S~V~S]

Reading Epi's case I agreed with it regarding SVS but honestly the idea he thinks I am paired with her made me laugh.

So I use ^^ instead big green to not search for it and this is a habit I have since I talked daily with my honies about what the next Naruto chapter will be about, and also I know the words of many emojis because searching them is a pain on phone, and someone else abuse the ^^ sign and tadaaa! we are partners?

No sir, we are not partners, except she is town, wiich I doubt.

Which parts did you agree with?

I forgot because a whole work day passed since but I remember I nodded reading it

Can you humor me and look at it again? I want to know what specific baddie behaviors of mine which he pointed out that you agreed with.

[S~V~S]

I mean , your reaction to it at the time, you really seemed to like it.

[Master Radishes]

[VOTE: SVS] aubergine

This is fine I guess. I have no strong opinion but others seem to.

[Master Radishes]

Oh and SVS pops in. Awkward.

[Master Radishes]

I need to sleep soon. I'll follow Michelle if she goes a different direction, at least for this round.

[LinearPoint]

The only problem I'm having is that I'm not actually confident a Parity Cop played like Guillotine has been playing today.

It's odd for a role that wont get info unto day 3 to be super active, trying to get people to speculate on them, and all that. Seems very Vanilla play.

I obviously haven't seen they play Cop, but it is certainly not expected of an average player.

[S~V~S]

Oh and SVS pops in. Awkward.

Just promise me to seriously look into those who pushed sus at me, and who might have benefitted from me flipping civ.

It seems almost everyone has proposed me as a teammate for almost everyone. When I flip don’t clear anyone, ok?

[Michelle]

I mean , your reaction to it at the time, you really seemed to like it.

Yes but to do the effort to reread it at 11:30 pm only to explain you why I liked it seems like you want me to focus on that and I don't see the usefulness because it doesn't change my read on you.

[Michelle]

Harclaim Parity Cop

Ok, you have my attention

[VOTE: unvote] aubergine

Can we finally work together or not. Im gonna die soon, i dont think im gonna see the day where i can reveal a parity check now that i claimed! Thanks!

Do you mean what exactly when you say 'work together'?

[Michelle]

Spoiler: show

Day 1
Poll runs till Fri Aug 25, 2023 7:00 am
Please note that if you vote, your vote will be visible.

You may select 1 option


cat
0
No votes
Voters: None
DrWilgy
0
No votes
Voters: None
Epignosis
0
No votes
Voters: None
falcon45ca
0
No votes
Voters: None
Guillotine
4
36%
Voters: cat, Seanzie, DrWilgy, falcon45ca
LinearPoint
0
No votes
Voters: None
Master Radishes
0
No votes
Voters: None
Michelle
0
No votes
Voters: None
S~V~S
4
36%
Voters: LinearPoint, Master Radishes, Epignosis, Guillotine
Seanzie
0
No votes
Voters: None
No elimination
0
No votes
Voters: None
No vote
1
9%
Voters: Michelle
History class rules (spec)
2
18%
Voters: Scotty, JaggedJimmyJay
Total votes: 11

Vc

[LinearPoint]

So I think this is the conclusion I reached. I am not trusting this situation at all.

The world where Guillotine fake claims Parity Cop to get off the block and misschop someone else is a non 0 chance.

That being said in both the world where Guillotine is Town and the one where they are Mafia, I think that still leaves a pretty strong chance for 1 of SVS and Guillotine to be a wolf.

I think I want to leave the Parity Cop alone for today and just execute them tomorrow if SVS flips Town and we get a Cop CC.