The Syndicate 2014 Game of Champions [ENDGAME]

#3051

MovingPictures07 wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:Mathmatically, given the number of mafia and the amount of trust I have for players, there has to be at least one mafia within the pool of inactives (Lizzy, LoRab, Rey, Sabie) So in order of the cases I would MOST like to see pursued:

1. Blooper
2. Boomslang
3. Spacedaisy
4. Inactives
You feel most strongly about Blooper OR you want to discuss cases against her the most (which may not imply that you feel most strongly about her; it could mean you don't feel she has had enough discussion)?

Wasn't sure which you meant.

Sorry. Yes, I meant these are the avenues of discussion I'd like to see explored, not that this is the order in which I suspect these guys necessarily. That would depend on the validity I find in the cases we talk about today.

#3052

So I was wondering if there are even any possible inactive Sorcerers and I think there may NOT be.

The fact that we have seen Crowley kill N8 and Voldy attempt to kill N6 means that the Sorcerers probably do not have an inactive player, right?

#3053

DharmaHelper wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:Mathmatically, given the number of mafia and the amount of trust I have for players, there has to be at least one mafia within the pool of inactives (Lizzy, LoRab, Rey, Sabie) So in order of the cases I would MOST like to see pursued:

1. Blooper
2. Boomslang
3. Spacedaisy
4. Inactives
You feel most strongly about Blooper OR you want to discuss cases against her the most (which may not imply that you feel most strongly about her; it could mean you don't feel she has had enough discussion)?

Wasn't sure which you meant.

Sorry. Yes, I meant these are the avenues of discussion I'd like to see explored, not that this is the order in which I suspect these guys necessarily. That would depend on the validity I find in the cases we talk about today.

Got it, thanks!

#3054

DH, how do you feel about juliets, timmer, and zeek? Those are three other players in addition to your list that I feel should be thrown out there, at least for some mild discussion.

#3055

MovingPictures07 wrote:DH, how do you feel about juliets, timmer, and zeek? Those are three other players in addition to your list that I feel should be thrown out there, at least for some mild discussion.

Timmer I feel fairly confident is a civ. Juliet and zeek I do not have a read on, and would agree that looking at them closer would be beneficial.

#3056

Gee MP, maybe ALL the low posters are baddies

And a dead civvie, active or not, is a dead civvie. One more warm body between me and the baddies. I think there are still active baddies, and i would rather pursue evidence of that than take shots in the dark at the non participators.

#3057

S~V~S wrote:Gee MP, maybe ALL the low posters are baddies

And a dead civvie, active or not, is a dead civvie. One more warm body between me and the baddies. I think there are still active baddies, and i would rather pursue evidence of that than take shots in the dark at the non participators.

Lol, what? I think I am misunderstanding your joke, but I am finding evidence that the Sorcerers do NOT have a low poster. Or was that a jab because I was all 'let's consider lynching low posters'?

I understand that POV entirely, trust me, and I agree with it. I just think we should be cautious about keeping many NP's around for two reasons:
1) They COULD be bad (though it looks not very likely at the moment, except for that lone Suit IMO)
2) They could cause trouble when the endgame arrives (as I said, if there are 7 players, 5 of which are civilian and 2 of which are bad, if 4 of the 5 civilians are inactive, then it's game over for the civilians)

#3058

MovingPictures07 wrote:So I was wondering if there are even any possible inactive Sorcerers and I think there may NOT be.

The fact that we have seen Crowley kill N8 and Voldy attempt to kill N6 means that the Sorcerers probably do not have an inactive player, right?

There are not a lot of safe assumptions to make in this game, but that seems like a safe one?

#3059

Mongoose wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:So I was wondering if there are even any possible inactive Sorcerers and I think there may NOT be.

The fact that we have seen Crowley kill N8 and Voldy attempt to kill N6 means that the Sorcerers probably do not have an inactive player, right?
There are not a lot of safe assumptions to make in this game, but that seems like a safe one?

Indeed. N7 no one was killed. D8 Made was lynched and was a Suit. So that means both Voldy and Crowley must be alive and they both must be active. I think.

What are your suspects, Mongoose?

#3060

@Epi, if this was already asked/answered, i am sorry.

Civilians (18)
Must defeat the Suits and the Sorcerers. The game ends if this happens.

Does defeat mean outnumber, or does defeat mean "eliminate"?

#3061

MovingPictures07 wrote:
Mongoose wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:So I was wondering if there are even any possible inactive Sorcerers and I think there may NOT be.

The fact that we have seen Crowley kill N8 and Voldy attempt to kill N6 means that the Sorcerers probably do not have an inactive player, right?
There are not a lot of safe assumptions to make in this game, but that seems like a safe one?
Indeed. N7 no one was killed. D8 Made was lynched and was a Suit. So that means both Voldy and Crowley must be alive and they both must be active. I think.

What are your suspects, Mongoose?

Well, Daisy still (thanks for pulling that quote SVS, I was going nuts looking for it), and not so much Blooper, but with you and DH both feeling so suspish of her, it makes me feel uneasy (for feeling good about her when a few of you definitively do not).

#3062

S~V~S wrote:@Epi, if this was already asked/answered, i am sorry.

Civilians (18)
Must defeat the Suits and the Sorcerers. The game ends if this happens.
Does defeat mean outnumber, or does defeat mean "eliminate"?

The Suits and the Sorcerers must be out of the game completely for the game to be over.

#3063

On the Sorcerer angle, lets take a look at the Bass voters and see if anything pops out:

Bass_the_Clever
9
Elohcin (3), Dom (4), Boomslang (10), zeek (11), bea (12), nijuukyugou (14), Russtifinko (16), juliets (17), Roxy (19)

Dom is obviously a Sorcerer

Boomslang I've expressed suspicion might be a Sorcerer given the distancing with Dom and the sketchy WIFOM comments

Russ and Roxy are both dead and not likely to have been Sorcerers

So the list is then:

Eloh
Boomslang
Zeek
Bea
Blooper

Can anyone think of anything that discounts anyone of these guys from being a Sorcerer? The narrower we can get our search the better.

#3064

But what about the fact that Snowy voted Dom in that lynch?

#3065

For example, Zeek was first to vote Snow Dog so that does not seem like a sorcerer thing to do. Especially given how zeek seemed to gun after Snowy if I remember correctly. So I don't believe he is a Sorcerer.

Linki @ MP - I've tossed around the idea that Snowy's vote was forced in that instance, though admittedly this is a remarkable coincidence if true (that Snow Dog's vote would be forced to his teammate, and one of only two lynch options.)

#3066

Could Zeek's vote have been forced? That would make sense why he voted Snowy first. And he could have sold it by being a gunner, but ...maybe not.

#3067

Mongoose wrote:Could Zeek's vote have been forced? That would make sense why he voted Snowy first. And he could have sold it by being a gunner, but ...maybe not.

He'd been expressing suspicion of Snowy for a long time though, is my thing.

#3068

Yeeaaah, nevermind

#3069

Rats. Go civs!

and rezz me please....

#3070

S~V~S wrote:The motivation would be to be able to come in here and say just what you are saying.

Plus she is implying she is an info role. I just don't believe that.

I gotta go eat my pizza, get thee behind me Mafia.

SVS, I do not have an info role. I have not tried to imply I have an info role. I know the effect my role has on others and that is what I extrapolate from. It is not an info role. Stop trying to lynch me based on something I never said, never intended and in fact explicitly told you I wasn't doing.

#3071

DharmaHelper wrote:Mathmatically, given the number of mafia and the amount of trust I have for players, there has to be at least one mafia within the pool of inactives (Lizzy, LoRab, Rey, Sabie) So in order of the cases I would MOST like to see pursued:

1. Blooper
2. Boomslang
3. Spacedaisy
4. Inactives

SVS THIS was my point. You are all basing your suspicion of me on numbers of people revolving around who you trust implicitly. But I know I am civ and I WILL flip civ. So if your numbers are showing I am bad, then your numbers are wrong probably because you are trusting someone you should t be.

Also, I did not just say you Bea and low posters. I let go of you and Bea because I finally put pieces together. Stop taking the stuff you want and leaving the truth behind. I have found Juliets most suspect lately, but the truth is all my freaking time is spent defending myself around here so I can't place who I most think is bad.

I have it down in my mind to Juliets, blooper, mongoose or any of the non participators.

Also, I didn't freak out over the missed kill, and I had ONE post where I said you all need to get over this stupid fear of voting non participators. One. I did not push a case for any of the low posters.

#3072

EBWOP, I forgot about Zeek. He would be in that list as well.

#3073

I trust boom and LC. I know MP's role obviously. I don't trust him per se, but he seems mostly harmless, aside from the fact he seems to be TRYING to make me look like his freaking narrator. I just can't believe you all can't see through it. I trust Bea and SVS (despite the fact she is absolutely tunnel vision wrong about me). I believe DH is likely the hatter and I have no really desire to go down that trail if it is not needed. Pretty much anyone else is possibly bad to me. Oh, except Elo, if Bea vouches for her I buy it.

#3074

Daisy, I have a question for you. During the lynch where votes shifted to Russ briefly, and then to Snowy, you had said that you thought Russ had hinted about a certain role, and it made you hesitate to vote him. What role did you think he was hinting at, out of curiosity?

#3075

One that he obviously is not now that someone else seems to have hinted. Also, I didn't think he was hinting I thought his questions indicated a mind set that I believed made him look like he was face of Boe. Why do you ask me this?

#3076

Spacedaisy wrote:One that he obviously is not now that someone else seems to have hinted. Also, I didn't think he was hinting I thought his questions indicated a mind set that I believed made him look like he was face of Boe. Why do you ask me this?

I'm tying to match this to some of your own posts recently, tbh. While you haven't hinted towards any one role, you've sort of had a "you'll regret it" tone recently, which makes me think of certain civ roles, and so I was wondering if you were suggesting certain things. Just wanted to see how that matched to your thoughts on Russ.

I'm a bit torn today. I felt certain about Snowy. I was reasonably sure about Made. But I've got you and Nijuu on my list, and need to look back to Boomslang for today. I need to narrow three to one, but haven't found the answer just yet.

#3077

You're missing juliets off your list, based on voting.

I gunned for Snow Dog and Made before you all jumped on the bandwagon.

#3078

timmer wrote:
Spacedaisy wrote:One that he obviously is not now that someone else seems to have hinted. Also, I didn't think he was hinting I thought his questions indicated a mind set that I believed made him look like he was face of Boe. Why do you ask me this?
I'm tying to match this to some of your own posts recently, tbh. While you haven't hinted towards any one role, you've sort of had a "you'll regret it" tone recently, which makes me think of certain civ roles, and so I was wondering if you were suggesting certain things. Just wanted to see how that matched to your thoughts on Russ.

I'm a bit torn today. I felt certain about Snowy. I was reasonably sure about Made. But I've got you and Nijuu on my list, and need to look back to Boomslang for today. I need to narrow three to one, but haven't found the answer just yet.

I am very glad you said this. I was beginning to feel like a bully somewhat , like I was picking on Daisy. I am glad someone saw the same thing I did.

#3079

timmer - I'd like your thoughts on bea and Elo, who you trust, who you don't.

#3080

zeek wrote:timmer - I'd like your thoughts on bea and Elo, who you trust, who you don't.

Earlier in the game, Timmer had a few thoughts on Bea I was not really agreeing with. So i would be interested in hearing this, too.

#3081

When he said he thought he could see bea being bad?

#3082

Thoughts on Long Con... he doesn't have a hat. We learnt this because he presumably did not do as Boddy directed him. The only Mafia left without a hat is Voldemort and everytime we know a Sorcerer has been up for a lynch (except Snow Dog) he voted for them, even llama-Made. He has my trust.

Thoughts on Mongoose... she has 3 vowels in her name. Again, Boddy consequences probably. And again, the only Mafia remaining with 3 vowels is Voldemort. Lot less cut and clear with her voting however. She missed Bass-Dom and voted DH over Snow Dog. Does this make her bad? I don't know, but she is high on my Sorcerer list.

#3083

Correction - Ignore that Made-llama bit, I keep forgetting Made was a Suit! :P

#3084

DharmaHelper wrote:On the Sorcerer angle, lets take a look at the Bass voters and see if anything pops out:

Bass_the_Clever
9
Elohcin (3), Dom (4), Boomslang (10), zeek (11), bea (12), nijuukyugou (14), Russtifinko (16), juliets (17), Roxy (19)

Dom is obviously a Sorcerer

Boomslang I've expressed suspicion might be a Sorcerer given the distancing with Dom and the sketchy WIFOM comments

Russ and Roxy are both dead and not likely to have been Sorcerers

So the list is then:

Eloh
Boomslang
Zeek
Bea
Blooper

Can anyone think of anything that discounts anyone of these guys from being a Sorcerer? The narrower we can get our search the better.

I think this is a good thing to consider. However, you can take Bea and I out of he mix. We are both civ. Ever since I got my role PM, I've known we are both civ. So...that narrows it down to...

Boomslang
Zeek
Blooper

#3085

Having done some re-reads and revisited llama's lynch, I am satisfied DH is neither Mafia, and juliets and Blooper are not Suits.

One thing that stood out is that llama was lynched 10-8 over Made. DF voted his teammate Made, making it 9-7. Then reywas voted Made and Boom voted llama. I don't know what to make of this.

linki - Info dump.

You are all forgetting juliets and, if you've been paying attention in this game, cross me off that list.

#3086

zeek wrote:
linki - Info dump.

It's nothing that hasn't already been said.

#3087

Not so explicitly. I'm willing to accept this as genuine though.

#3088

Also, Mongoose is missing from that list.

So, sorcerers:

bea - likely not if hints took into account
Boomslang - voted neither Dom or Snowy (throwaway vote for S~V~S)
Elo - likely not if hints took into account
juliets - probably not, voted Snowy (making Snowy 5-4 DH)
Mongoose - missed Bass-Dom, voted DH (making 6-6 Snowy)
nijuukyugou - probably not, voted Snowy (making Snowy 7-6 DH)
Roxy - don't know why DH ruled this out
Russtifinko - likely not, voted Snowy (making Snowy 6-4 DH)
zeek - I know I'm not, suspected Snowy before anyone and gave him his first vote]

#3089

At the moment I trust SVS, bea and Elo at the highest level. Then LC, timmer, zeek and DH even though he may be the hatter as Daisy mentioned (I think it was Daisy). Daisy has some of the same thoughts i do (except about me) and I know I'm a civ. I don't believe she would have tried to quit if she were bad. I understand it may have been a trick but she seemed so sincere. So that leaves Mongoose, niju, boomslang, and the inactives. I will focus on them today and probably vote one of them unless something else comes to light during the day today.

#3090

On further review of the evidence, I've come around to the SVS as civ conclusion; I apologize for not getting there more quickly. In terms of the other candidates, I know I'm not a Sorcerer, and I'm getting good vibes on a reread of Blooper, especially in the baddie hunt for Made.

This post of Mongoose's caught my eye:

Mongoose wrote:
zeek wrote:Btw if he flips Sorceror, Mongoose is totally the other one.
I wish. But I was not blessed to be born with a wand.

Which could either be just poetic or a well-worded attempt to avoid making a statement checkable by Face of Boe.

#3091

Boomslang wrote:On further review of the evidence, I've come around to the SVS as civ conclusion; I apologize for not getting there more quickly. In terms of the other candidates, I know I'm not a Sorcerer, and I'm getting good vibes on a reread of Blooper, especially in the baddie hunt for Made.

Who else do you get good vibes from?

#3092

BTW, re Daisy's suspicion of me, won't you please give me something to defend? Any questions you have about my behavior would be welcome.

#3093

S~V~S wrote:
zeek wrote:timmer - I'd like your thoughts on bea and Elo, who you trust, who you don't.
Earlier in the game, Timmer had a few thoughts on Bea I was not really agreeing with. So i would be interested in hearing this, too.

Okay, so I've picked this apart to the nth fucking degree, and here is my thoughts about Bea and Elohcin.

They are flat out stating that they have known they are each civ since before Day 0. Since sign-ups, apparently. There are only two ways I can see that would match this. Obviously, if they were baddie teammates and were going some kind of gambit. And second, and this is the one they are clearly suggesting, if they were The Doctor and "his companion". The Doctor's role doesn't explicitly state that he gets to pick a civ to have BTSC with, but if that's not what they are suggesting, I don't know what else it could be. So, I'll flat out say it. they are basically hinting constantly that they are the Doctor and companion. As an aside, I'm not sure why they are being this blatant about it, or when it became cool to hint so obviously that it is essentially a self-outing which is against the rules, but that's more for post-game talk than anything.

So the question becomes... could this be a gambit? Could they be bad, and are playing some kind of ploy?

I attacked it based on the idea "what if they are lying?" and at first, I thought I found something, LOL. Bea and Elohcin have only voted together twice all game (in lynch polls). BOTH times it was during a lynch where a sorcerer was either getting lynched, or threatened to be lynched. They both voted Bass instead of Dom. And they both voted DH instead of Snowy. So, you think, OMG what if they are playing us for fools and came up with a clever way to tell the truth about being baddie teammates, sorcerers, to fool face of boe?!?!?

But it's not the truth.

Because Bea first made explicit "I trust Elohcin" comments on Night 2. Which was right BEFORE the sorcerers made their first kill in the game (INH). So the ONLY way I could see Bea and Elohcin being bad at ALL is if INH was actually the Doctor, they killed him, learned from their baddie role that knows the ID of those they kill that he WAS the doctor, and assumed that identity. But they couldn't, because they hadn't killed him yet.

In summary, while I don't feel good about how flippant they are being with the rules... I believe Bea and Elohcin to be who they are strongly hinting they are.

#3094

Spacedaisy wrote:I trust boom and LC.

Sorry if you've touched on this previously, I'll try to find it, but why do you trust Boom?

#3095

DharmaHelper wrote:On the Sorcerer angle, lets take a look at the Bass voters and see if anything pops out:

I like looking at them side-by-side for a timeline comparison, personally!

Bass_the_Clever
9
Elohcin (3), Dom (4), Boomslang (10), zeek (11), bea (12), nijuukyugou (14), Russtifinko (16), juliets (17), Roxy (19)
47%

Dom
7
Long Con (5), Spacedaisy (6), DharmaHelper (8), timmer (9), Turnip Head (13), S~V~S (15), Snow Dog (18)
37%

So, when Snowy voted for Dom (his teammate) it was 8-6 Bass. I've previously showed that Snowy voted with just under 5 minutes to go in the poll, so I believe they took a calculated gamble.

Who hadn't yet voted in the poll? Hedgeowl, Lizzy, Lorab, Mongoose, Made, MP, reywaS, sabie12, Roxy.

We know hedge was an indy. We know Made was a suit. We know MP is Tyler. So that leaves Lizzy, Lorab, reywaS, sabie12 (none of whom seem to be playing?) and Mongoose (who was on vacation). Only Roxy was left who was likely to vote, and she had expressed suspicion at Bass already and was pretty clearly going to vote there.

My point being that if the Sorcerers were paying attention to who was left to vote, they would have known VERY WELL why Snowy voting his own teammate was a safe thing to do.

So where are the missing Sorcerers, then? It's possible one is in the in actives. But I think at least one, if not two, are in the Bass voters.

Boomslang (10), nijuukyugou (14), juliets (17)

These are the three voters I do not get civvies vibes from who could be sorcerers based on this analysis. i will be focusing on them for today. But for now, breakfast!

#3096

And if anyone can make a case for one of those people who missed the vote being a sorcerer, please shout it out, as well!

#3097

You don't get civvie vibes from me? What does that mean? Something I said, something I did?

#3098

juliets wrote:You don't get civvie vibes from me? What does that mean? Something I said, something I did?

I don't, no. I also don't have a baddie vibe for you. You are a giant question mark for me right now! I will be reading through your posts later this day period.

#3099

timmer wrote:
Spacedaisy wrote:I trust boom and LC.
Sorry if you've touched on this previously, I'll try to find it, but why do you trust Boom?

Because he clearly said he knows I'm civ. I know he is telling the truth, there is no baddie way to know I am civ for certain. Only civ. And I therefore trust he is telling the truth about LC as well.

@juliets because of the way you came after me the other day. I've already explained that. And up to that time I had the same feeling about you as timmer, so yeah...

@all, what are others feeling about Juliets? Am I missing something about her I shouldn't be overlooking?

#3100

Spacedaisy wrote:
timmer wrote:
Spacedaisy wrote:I trust boom and LC.
Sorry if you've touched on this previously, I'll try to find it, but why do you trust Boom?
Because he clearly said he knows I'm civ. I know he is telling the truth, there is no baddie way to know I am civ for certain. Only civ. And I therefore trust he is telling the truth about LC as well.

@juliets because of the way you came after me the other day. I've already explained that. And up to that time I had the same feeling about you as timmer, so yeah...

@all, what are others feeling about Juliets? Am I missing something about her I shouldn't be overlooking?

Well that's just outright ridiculous. There are baddie/indie secrets, and he could just be lying. Saying he "knows" you are civ means nothing. Using that as the basis to trust him is completely ridiculous at this stage in the game.

Who killed spacedaisy...I mean, of course you know. Should he die?