Death Note Mafia [END]

[thellama73]

For anyone considering joining me in my vote for TH, let the record show that he has said 1) he thinks Russ is likely a baddie; 2) he doesn't want Russ to be lynched "until there can be no doubt"; 3) Russ' behavior tomorrow will fail to remove all doubt.

Essentially, he want to leave someone he thinks is bad alive indefinitely.

[triceratopzeuhl]

1. gladly:

So given all that, why the hell would a baddie vote for L/Light lynches? That's a stupid move for them and the exact opposite of laying low. It makes much more sense to look at the people voting for normal lynches and/or the people tossing their votes away on options that clearly wont win.

2. I don't mean the flip to looking at me, I mean the flip from careful (if flawed) analysis of the options on day 0, to shifty eyes and wildly pointing fingers on day 1
3. I still see no real case. You've tried to add on "misrepresenting you" (which I'm not doing) in addition to posting too fast or whatever, but even if that were the case it hardly makes me bad

[Marmot]

For anyone considering joining me in my vote for TH, let the record show that he has said 1) he thinks Russ is likely a baddie; 2) he doesn't want Russ to be lynched "until there can be no doubt"; 3) Russ' behavior tomorrow will fail to remove all doubt.

Essentially, he want to leave someone he thinks is bad alive indefinitely.

You raise a good point sir. This will be hard to counter.

[Long Con]

Ok, more now.

The Spacedaisy thing, I don't think it's suspicious that she was in the thread but not posting. This has been a big catch-up game and I'm sure that she had to do some reading without posting - I know that has been most of my game so far.

TH - Llama... Llama claims that TH's indecisiveness in the Day 0 Poll makes him bad, but I think it makes him seem Civ. I could vote for Llama.

Thank you Zomberella and SVS. I have no idea if either of you are bad or not, but you boiled down your take on all the players in one post, and I appreciate it. I frankly don't have the time to comb through a couple hundred episodes of "Trice Yells at Everyone" every day. I'll offer my insight and contribute what I can, but I don't see the "discussion" coalescing around anyone in particular. All I see is argument ad nauseum around the D0 poll.

I'm happy to see so many involved, but how do you find so much to talk about when literally nothing has happened yet? The most earth-shattering event so far is the realization that Russ hasn't posted anything.

Waiting for a bandwagon to hop onto?

Hmmm...good point.

Alright. I can probably add TH and Snowman to my list, albeit I would still rank them below Trice and bass. So my list currently goes:

1) Trice
2) bass
3) TH/Snowman

I think this BWT is a bit suspicious, because it's mostly following other cases. And he just adds TH and Snow in one lump, like "here's the portion of my suspicion that is Llama's suspicion".

Isn't Epig anti-speculation? And now he has voted for Russ with a very speculative reason? Maybe Russ has posted sicne then and it's all moot, I don't know yet. Epig, I assume your speculation crumbles if he posts, and you will not believe in your vote any longer?

We must continue to observe his behavior until there can be no doubt.

That's a little weird.

I thought it was sensible.

We must continue to observe his behavior until there can be no doubt.

That's a little weird.

I know, right? Since when do we only lynch people when we have no doubt about them, especially on Day 1?

Ping! I think I'll vote for Llama today.

[DharmaHelper]

Does trice always change his avatar this frequently?

[Ricochet]

The more I think of it, the less I can understand why Epig would want Russ instalynched for his inactivity, and for what purpose, even on a basic "he's baddie for it" level. But since this isn't quite the basic-type of a mafia game, maybe the question "do you think he's baddie" should be elaborated. So Epi:

1. Do you think Russ is Kira? Or any Kira?
2. Do you think Russ is a Shinigami? If yes, why, given that llama and myself have pointed out that it would take three "undetected" players for this type of character to be fleshed out?
3. Do you think Russ is a baddie with no major investement (i.e. a Kira Sympathizer or a Yotsuba non-Kira member)? If yes, what info or further development do you hope to obtain from lynching someone who has not had any contact of any type with anyone else so far?

And just to be clear, no, I am not asking why lynch someone if we think he's a baddie. I'm asking what kind of intelligence do we hope to obtain from lynching an inactive, if he flips bad. Cause if he's a Kira, bullzeye. If he's less than that, no way to make further connections with anyone. If he flips civ, of course, we would simply have lynched a completely inactive player.

[triceratopzeuhl]

For anyone considering joining me in my vote for TH, let the record show that he has said 1) he thinks Russ is likely a baddie; 2) he doesn't want Russ to be lynched "until there can be no doubt"; 3) Russ' behavior tomorrow will fail to remove all doubt.

Essentially, he want to leave someone he thinks is bad alive indefinitely.

That and, if he's going to vote randomly with no justification every day, even if he's a civ he's a detriment to the civ cause. It sounds bad for me to point that out, but it's true.

I will note that the detective team does not say anything about being alive in the win conditions, so if TH is a baddie good but if he's a civ it barely makes a difference if he's not going to help us lynch baddies

[S~V~S]

That is helpful.

While DH and Epi tango, and trice and Aces rave, boo feels like the odd one out in this party.

I am not seeing bad boo so far, not at all.

And FZ, "wot" meaning I disagree that discussing the Yotsuba is a baddie waste of time. They have a Kira and they have secret win conditions. I would rather lynch direct baddies, yes, but the Yotsuba may have a kill at some point, some rather vague point, Lol, so

So if you knew someone was this Yotsuba, you'd lynch them now instead of looking for a sure baddie?

Noooo, and that is not even close to what I said. You said discussing the Yotsuba was a waste of time. I disagree.

I clearly said right up there ^^^ that I would rather lynch direct baddies.

[Tangrowth]

MM, thank you very much.


HOST ANNOUNCEMENT:
The players list on the first page of this thread has been reformatted and updated. Now you can click on each player's name to read through their posts in this thread.

I intend on formatting future players lists in games that I host exactly as I have in this one, since I much prefer this one, and I think you folks will as well.

[Turnip Head]

I mean, it truly would remove any doubt if Russ starts posting insanified posts for day 2

Not really.

Mata is right. If Russ starts posting insanified posts on Day 2, we cannot rule out that another player targeted him with this ability to make him appear more suspicious. If that happens, we would need to observe him on Day 3 as well.

Changing what he's supposed to do for posting in each day would also not make any sense if he's following a rigorous schedule. Either he's that role and just isn't allowed to post in order to follow a daily schedule, or he's not that role and he's just not posting. Making a baddie role that follows a schedule and making it so they are not allowed to post wouldn't make sense since it would out them, so I think he's just choosing not to post.

Sure it makes sense. Here's an example schedule:

• Day 1: Remain silent and wait for Kira's instructions. Biceps and triceps.
• Day 2: Quote every player in the game. Shoulder day.
• Day 3: post pictures of yourself eating spaghetti. Cardio.
• Day 4: Quote No Doubt lyrics in every post. Chest and abs.

[DharmaHelper]

Does trice always change his avatar this frequently?

[thellama73]

Sure it makes sense. Here's an example schedule:

• Day 1: Remain silent and wait for Kira's instructions. Biceps and triceps.
• Day 2: Quote every player in the game. Shoulder day.
• Day 3: post pictures of yourself eating spaghetti. Cardio.
• Day 4: Quote No Doubt lyrics in every post. Chest and abs.

Speculation based on nothing.

[boo]

I mean, it truly would remove any doubt if Russ starts posting insanified posts for day 2

Not really.

Mata is right. If Russ starts posting insanified posts on Day 2, we cannot rule out that another player targeted him with this ability to make him appear more suspicious. If that happens, we would need to observe him on Day 3 as well.

Changing what he's supposed to do for posting in each day would also not make any sense if he's following a rigorous schedule. Either he's that role and just isn't allowed to post in order to follow a daily schedule, or he's not that role and he's just not posting. Making a baddie role that follows a schedule and making it so they are not allowed to post wouldn't make sense since it would out them, so I think he's just choosing not to post.

Sure it makes sense. Here's an example schedule:

• Day 1: Remain silent and wait for Kira's instructions. Biceps and triceps.
• Day 2: Quote every player in the game. Shoulder day.
• Day 3: post pictures of yourself eating spaghetti. Cardio.
• Day 4: Quote No Doubt lyrics in every post. Chest and abs.

A daily schedule is not a weekly schedule.

[Turnip Head]

I left out leg day because everyone hates leg day.

[triceratopzeuhl]

[*]Day 3: post pictures of yourself eating spaghetti. Cardio.

TIL eating spaghetti is cardio

Does trice always change his avatar this frequently?

I can't answer this because aces will continue to claim that I only post jokes

[FZ.]

That is helpful.

While DH and Epi tango, and trice and Aces rave, boo feels like the odd one out in this party.

I am not seeing bad boo so far, not at all.

And FZ, "wot" meaning I disagree that discussing the Yotsuba is a baddie waste of time. They have a Kira and they have secret win conditions. I would rather lynch direct baddies, yes, but the Yotsuba may have a kill at some point, some rather vague point, Lol, so

So if you knew someone was this Yotsuba, you'd lynch them now instead of looking for a sure baddie?

Noooo, and that is not even close to what I said. You said discussing the Yotsuba was a waste of time. I disagree.

I clearly said right up there ^^^ that I would rather lynch direct baddies.

Ah, okay. I still think that at this point, it's better to focus on finding a baddie instead of lynching a Yotsuba. We can save them for later, and it's not like we know Epi is one.


Crazy enough, I'm actually contemplating voting for llama. I don't feel like he's his usual self. I feel like he knows TH's reason for voting him can't be true baddie TH, because he wouldn't do that, yet he's going after him and trying to find something to justify it with. I also don't think that TH's indecisiveness regarding the D0 vote was fishy in any way, and I don't think llama really thought it was either.
Something about how llama is playing strikes me as not genuine


linki: I have no idea how often Trice changes his avatar

[Marmot]

Does trice always change his avatar this frequently?

What does this have to do with the game? Do baddies change avatars frequently?

[DharmaHelper]

Does trice always change his avatar this frequently?

What does this have to do with the game? Do baddies change avatars frequently?

X Kira must adhere to a strict, daily schedule.

[AceofSpaces]

1. gladly:

So given all that, why the hell would a baddie vote for L/Light lynches? That's a stupid move for them and the exact opposite of laying low. It makes much more sense to look at the people voting for normal lynches and/or the people tossing their votes away on options that clearly wont win.

2. I don't mean the flip to looking at me, I mean the flip from careful (if flawed) analysis of the options on day 0, to shifty eyes and wildly pointing fingers on day 1
3. I still see no real case. You've tried to add on "misrepresenting you" (which I'm not doing) in addition to posting too fast or whatever, but even if that were the case it hardly makes me bad

So by "pushing so hard" you mean I made one post about it on Day 0 that isn't even about what you say it's about? How many times are you going to misquote that post?

At this point, arguing with you isn't necessary. I've cast my vote.

[Marmot]

Does trice always change his avatar this frequently?

What does this have to do with the game? Do baddies change avatars frequently?

X Kira must adhere to a strict, daily schedule.

Considering the recurring theme between the avatars, I don't agree with that connection. Considering how that's a sketch of trice's irl visage, I think he's just playing around.

[thellama73]

Crazy enough, I'm actually contemplating voting for llama. I don't feel like he's his usual self. I feel like he knows TH's reason for voting him can't be true baddie TH, because he wouldn't do that, yet he's going after him and trying to find something to justify it with. I also don't think that TH's indecisiveness regarding the D0 vote was fishy in any way, and I don't think llama really thought it was either.
Something about how llama is playing strikes me as not genuine

So you think it's totally cool that TH openly doesn't want to lynch baddies, and my pointing that out is not genuine. Good to know.

[DharmaHelper]

Well that's all I wanted to know.

[Marmot]

Well that's all I wanted to know.

Oh, and if Kira X does have a strict daily routine, spotting it on Day 1 is unlikely. That's how I feel.

[FZ.]

Crazy enough, I'm actually contemplating voting for llama. I don't feel like he's his usual self. I feel like he knows TH's reason for voting him can't be true baddie TH, because he wouldn't do that, yet he's going after him and trying to find something to justify it with. I also don't think that TH's indecisiveness regarding the D0 vote was fishy in any way, and I don't think llama really thought it was either.
Something about how llama is playing strikes me as not genuine

So you think it's totally cool that TH openly doesn't want to lynch baddies, and my pointing that out is not genuine. Good to know.

Yeah

[Black Rock]

I'm all about that bass ('bout that bass) because I don't believe that random vote was random, and while I don't doubt that him not being able to be around caused him to vote early, I do doubt that the vote was truly random when it managed to land on Trice, who by that point was taking flak and was (and continues to be) one of several people I think a mafia member not wanting to risk missing the vote but also not wanting to waste their vote would vote for.

Now alone, that wouldn't be enough to warrant attention (at least in this D1 mine field)... BUT which option did bass vote for? Normal. Ok good, right? No, because which voter was he? The 11th. How many votes did L/Light have? 9 (total and when bass voted, he was the 26th voter overall after SD was the 25th overall when she voted for L/Light).

How many posts does bass have? 4.

What do they say?

"Real happy this game started." Ok, sure.

"I voted normal lynch." I mean, it is the right option, but literally nothing else, no quote even using other peoples ideas. The very essence of low effort.

So given all that, why the hell would a baddie vote for L/Light lynches? That's a stupid move for them and the exact opposite of laying low. It makes much more sense to look at the people voting for normal lynches and/or the people tossing their votes away on options that clearly wont win.

Because WIFOM.

Today's discussion has been enjoyable, but I think that behavior after the gameplay has been decided will prove more useful.

I agree.

Then this one. Ok, thank you for that very useful insight.

Then there's the vote post where he apologizes for having to vote now (I buy) and says he's voting randomly (I don't buy).


The first three posts are nothing. I think they were there because Bass is mafia, wants to fly low, but doesn't want to be at the bottom of the list when we look at total posts (and guess what, with 4 posts he's currently sitting with 7 people with the same or fewer posts, a nice buffer from being to far down in case people look at low posters, while still flying low).

No treble.

Ok, I said I would look at this post when I got back so I found it. BWT, I see what you are saying BUT I am seeing it from a different perspective. Everything Boo says seems more opportunistic then correct. He has taken 4 posts and made a case. Bass is often a low poster, not always, but often. It is day one and his day 0 vote wasn't an option any one considered baddie. I don't like this case at all, it smells baddie to me and now has put boo on my list.

[Marmot]

Ok, more now.

The Spacedaisy thing, I don't think it's suspicious that she was in the thread but not posting. This has been a big catch-up game and I'm sure that she had to do some reading without posting - I know that has been most of my game so far.

TH - Llama... Llama claims that TH's indecisiveness in the Day 0 Poll makes him bad, but I think it makes him seem Civ. I could vote for Llama.

Okay then, what do you think about llama's new development?

[triceratopzeuhl]

it's not misquoting. If baddies won't vote for L/Light, then by extension civs must have been the ones voting for it - according to your logic. A child could make that connection. Who the hell else would be voting it? Somebody voted for it.

I know that at this point you aren't going to argue, it's because you still have nothing of value to accuse me of.

Oh another funny thing aceofspades, you have posted several times about how baddies lay low, but you are exclusively targeting somebody who is not laying low at all - and you are also making a lot of effort this game to not lay low yourself (against your character, a couple people have pointed out). There are so many logical inconsistencies there I don't know where to begin... but I think the main takeaway is that once again, as with the day 0 vote, you are trying to claim that baddie behavior is whatever you don't do

DH - it has absolutely nothing to do with the game, I've got 12 of these moustache pictures and can't pick which one I like best. MM - it's not actually a sketch of my face

[triceratopzeuhl]

^ the above in response to aceofspades

[FZ.]

I'm all about that bass ('bout that bass) because I don't believe that random vote was random, and while I don't doubt that him not being able to be around caused him to vote early, I do doubt that the vote was truly random when it managed to land on Trice, who by that point was taking flak and was (and continues to be) one of several people I think a mafia member not wanting to risk missing the vote but also not wanting to waste their vote would vote for.

Now alone, that wouldn't be enough to warrant attention (at least in this D1 mine field)... BUT which option did bass vote for? Normal. Ok good, right? No, because which voter was he? The 11th. How many votes did L/Light have? 9 (total and when bass voted, he was the 26th voter overall after SD was the 25th overall when she voted for L/Light).

How many posts does bass have? 4.

What do they say?

"Real happy this game started." Ok, sure.

"I voted normal lynch." I mean, it is the right option, but literally nothing else, no quote even using other peoples ideas. The very essence of low effort.

So given all that, why the hell would a baddie vote for L/Light lynches? That's a stupid move for them and the exact opposite of laying low. It makes much more sense to look at the people voting for normal lynches and/or the people tossing their votes away on options that clearly wont win.

Because WIFOM.

Today's discussion has been enjoyable, but I think that behavior after the gameplay has been decided will prove more useful.

I agree.

Then this one. Ok, thank you for that very useful insight.

Then there's the vote post where he apologizes for having to vote now (I buy) and says he's voting randomly (I don't buy).


The first three posts are nothing. I think they were there because Bass is mafia, wants to fly low, but doesn't want to be at the bottom of the list when we look at total posts (and guess what, with 4 posts he's currently sitting with 7 people with the same or fewer posts, a nice buffer from being to far down in case people look at low posters, while still flying low).

No treble.

Ok, I said I would look at this post when I got back so I found it. BWT, I see what you are saying BUT I am seeing it from a different perspective. Everything Boo says seems more opportunistic then correct. He has taken 4 posts and made a case. Bass is often a low poster, not always, but often. It is day one and his day 0 vote wasn't an option any one considered baddie. I don't like this case at all, it smells baddie to me and now has put boo on my list.

I remember thinking the same, but I'm not sure how much Boo has played with Bass. Most times I see Boo around is when he's hosting. So not sure he'd know that about Bass.

[Marmot]

it's not misquoting. If baddies won't vote for L/Light, then by extension civs must have been the ones voting for it - according to your logic. A child could make that connection. Who the hell else would be voting it? Somebody voted for it.

I know that at this point you aren't going to argue, it's because you still have nothing of value to accuse me of.

Oh another funny thing aceofspades, you have posted several times about how baddies lay low, but you are exclusively targeting somebody who is not laying low at all - and you are also making a lot of effort this game to not lay low yourself (against your character, a couple people have pointed out). There are so many logical inconsistencies there I don't know where to begin... but I think the main takeaway is that once again, as with the day 0 vote, you are trying to claim that baddie behavior is whatever you don't do

DH - it has absolutely nothing to do with the game, I've got 12 of these moustache pictures and can't pick which one I like best. MM - it's not actually a sketch of my face

It's close enough right? :P At least one of the mustache variations.

[FZ.]

Oh, and can I just say this whole back and forth between Trice and Aces has lost its charm We get it, you're both suspicious of one another. Raise your hand anyone who is still reading their posts to one another

[Black Rock]

For anyone considering joining me in my vote for TH, let the record show that he has said 1) he thinks Russ is likely a baddie; 2) he doesn't want Russ to be lynched "until there can be no doubt"; 3) Russ' behavior tomorrow will fail to remove all doubt.

Essentially, he want to leave someone he thinks is bad alive indefinitely.

I thought that was a little weird as well. I'm still convinced he's a baddie. Wouldn't that be an awful weird stance for a baddie to have?

[thellama73]

So TH is bad:

I noticed somebody has already voted for Llama. They must feel pretty confident about their vote.

When I said I was waiting to see something, it was regarding TH. all the last games I've played with him (at least to the extent I remember), when he was a civ, he voted almost last. He's a lot more indecisive. This very early vote gets you the and maybe even my vote

TH is acting out of character:

Two things are catching my eye at the moment:

1. Way too many people are behaving out of character.
Epi wants to vote for an absent player.
TH is voting early for llama without any reason whatsoever.
Ace is apparently posting a lot more than people are used from him.
I had more, but I forgot by the time I got here.

2. There seems to be some very strong 1 on 1 battles, which is something I'm not used to seeing in these games, especially not on day 1
DH and Epi
Ace and Trice
TH and llama

I'm assuming this is somehow related to the nature of the game, but I'm also thinking that maybe there are roles of winning terms that require taking out a specific player. Not sure what it says about the alignment of the players. I've played games where one of the mafia had to kill another in order to win, and I know the opposite can be done as well.

But these strong convictions are worrying on day 1 to say the least.

TH is suddenly good:

SVS, you said that you expect baddies not to be as aggressive because they don't know who they are lynching. But the thing is, they'll probably be voting anyway, and the chances of them getting a baddie are just as high when they play a less aggressive game. I would say this is their chance to go really strongly after players because if they take out one of their own, they'll just end up looking good without having to carry the guilt of throwing a team mate under the bus ("hey, I didn't know").

So maybe those going so strongly after others have an agenda after all

linki: llama, the thing that's making me hesitate with TH is the fact that he seems so casual and laid back, which I agree with SVS is more indicative of his civ game

TH continues to act out of character:

It's funny how TH is not even trying to come up with a reason to vote llama

TH CONTINUES to act out of character:

I can think of a few reasons for TH to not want to vote for somebody he thinks is bad

1) TH is bad and doesn't want to kill a teammate
2) TH is bad and knows that's not his teammate, but doesn't want to be involved with lynching a civ
3) TH threw out a random idea he doesn't even believe

anyone got other theories?

FWIW, I never made the connection before that the strict daily regimen thing would mean posting challenges, but it seems possible now that it's been pointed out

I have not ruled out voting for Russ in subsequent lynches, and hopefully by then we'll also hear his side of the story (if the silence only lasts today).

Did you get a challenge to vote for llama and get people talking about how ridiculous your vote is?

TH is good and anyone who says otherwise must die. This emerged slightly after TH openly said he doesn't want to lynch baddies.

Crazy enough, I'm actually contemplating voting for llama. I don't feel like he's his usual self. I feel like he knows TH's reason for voting him can't be true baddie TH, because he wouldn't do that, yet he's going after him and trying to find something to justify it with. I also don't think that TH's indecisiveness regarding the D0 vote was fishy in any way, and I don't think llama really thought it was either.
Something about how llama is playing strikes me as not genuine

Also there's this. People defending Yotsuba are likely bad:

The person most likely to feel it's important to depict Yotsuba as good guys is the one who's a Kira

Discussing Yotsuba is a waste of time. Nothing to see here.

Why does it even matter at this point? If you think Epi is a Yotsuba, do you really think he's the one we should be focusing on now? Unless you think he's a baddie talking about the Yotsuba. If he's a baddie, making the Yotsuba seem baddies to us is much better strategy. Either way, it's a waste of time

Nobody's buying what you're selling, FZ.

[boo]

I'm all about that bass ('bout that bass) because I don't believe that random vote was random, and while I don't doubt that him not being able to be around caused him to vote early, I do doubt that the vote was truly random when it managed to land on Trice, who by that point was taking flak and was (and continues to be) one of several people I think a mafia member not wanting to risk missing the vote but also not wanting to waste their vote would vote for.

Now alone, that wouldn't be enough to warrant attention (at least in this D1 mine field)... BUT which option did bass vote for? Normal. Ok good, right? No, because which voter was he? The 11th. How many votes did L/Light have? 9 (total and when bass voted, he was the 26th voter overall after SD was the 25th overall when she voted for L/Light).

How many posts does bass have? 4.

What do they say?

"Real happy this game started." Ok, sure.

"I voted normal lynch." I mean, it is the right option, but literally nothing else, no quote even using other peoples ideas. The very essence of low effort.

So given all that, why the hell would a baddie vote for L/Light lynches? That's a stupid move for them and the exact opposite of laying low. It makes much more sense to look at the people voting for normal lynches and/or the people tossing their votes away on options that clearly wont win.

Because WIFOM.

Today's discussion has been enjoyable, but I think that behavior after the gameplay has been decided will prove more useful.

I agree.

Then this one. Ok, thank you for that very useful insight.

Then there's the vote post where he apologizes for having to vote now (I buy) and says he's voting randomly (I don't buy).


The first three posts are nothing. I think they were there because Bass is mafia, wants to fly low, but doesn't want to be at the bottom of the list when we look at total posts (and guess what, with 4 posts he's currently sitting with 7 people with the same or fewer posts, a nice buffer from being to far down in case people look at low posters, while still flying low).

No treble.

Ok, I said I would look at this post when I got back so I found it. BWT, I see what you are saying BUT I am seeing it from a different perspective. Everything Boo says seems more opportunistic then correct. He has taken 4 posts and made a case. Bass is often a low poster, not always, but often. It is day one and his day 0 vote wasn't an option any one considered baddie. I don't like this case at all, it smells baddie to me and now has put boo on my list.

I didn't trust SVS because I thought she was acting out of character and wanted to test it. She didn't give the response I wanted to call her out on it and vote for her though.

I don't trust bass (for the reasons in that post) but I don't actually plan on voting for him.

[S~V~S]

Boo you wound me

[Turnip Head]

To clarify, I only said that if Russ gets insanified tomorrow, it would be inconclusive. Enough observation and we will be able to see a pattern, but 1 or 2 Days is not enough time to establish a pattern. There could be an insanifier in the game was my point.

[Black Rock]

I'm all about that bass ('bout that bass) because I don't believe that random vote was random, and while I don't doubt that him not being able to be around caused him to vote early, I do doubt that the vote was truly random when it managed to land on Trice, who by that point was taking flak and was (and continues to be) one of several people I think a mafia member not wanting to risk missing the vote but also not wanting to waste their vote would vote for.

Now alone, that wouldn't be enough to warrant attention (at least in this D1 mine field)... BUT which option did bass vote for? Normal. Ok good, right? No, because which voter was he? The 11th. How many votes did L/Light have? 9 (total and when bass voted, he was the 26th voter overall after SD was the 25th overall when she voted for L/Light).

How many posts does bass have? 4.

What do they say?

"Real happy this game started." Ok, sure.

"I voted normal lynch." I mean, it is the right option, but literally nothing else, no quote even using other peoples ideas. The very essence of low effort.

So given all that, why the hell would a baddie vote for L/Light lynches? That's a stupid move for them and the exact opposite of laying low. It makes much more sense to look at the people voting for normal lynches and/or the people tossing their votes away on options that clearly wont win.

Because WIFOM.

Today's discussion has been enjoyable, but I think that behavior after the gameplay has been decided will prove more useful.

I agree.

Then this one. Ok, thank you for that very useful insight.

Then there's the vote post where he apologizes for having to vote now (I buy) and says he's voting randomly (I don't buy).


The first three posts are nothing. I think they were there because Bass is mafia, wants to fly low, but doesn't want to be at the bottom of the list when we look at total posts (and guess what, with 4 posts he's currently sitting with 7 people with the same or fewer posts, a nice buffer from being to far down in case people look at low posters, while still flying low).

No treble.

Ok, I said I would look at this post when I got back so I found it. BWT, I see what you are saying BUT I am seeing it from a different perspective. Everything Boo says seems more opportunistic then correct. He has taken 4 posts and made a case. Bass is often a low poster, not always, but often. It is day one and his day 0 vote wasn't an option any one considered baddie. I don't like this case at all, it smells baddie to me and now has put boo on my list.

I remember thinking the same, but I'm not sure how much Boo has played with Bass. Most times I see Boo around is when he's hosting. So not sure he'd know that about Bass.

I certainly can't remember which games they have played together or not but they have both been around long enough to have passed each other by. They both played on Rev as well before it died.

Linki Boo: I'm not sure I understand the SVS thing.

[boo]

Boo you wound me

You said you were considering voting a low poster. I don't think any SVS (civ, baddie, or indy) would do that in a normal game, which made me think you were a baddie since the baddies are not in their normal position. You didn't go for it, but if you had I'd have voted for you on the spot because that just would have been a whole other level of out of characterish-ness.

[triceratopzeuhl]

Oh, and can I just say this whole back and forth between Trice and Aces has lost its charm We get it, you're both suspicious of one another. Raise your hand anyone who is still reading their posts to one another

(raises hand)

[FZ.]

So TH is bad:

I noticed somebody has already voted for Llama. They must feel pretty confident about their vote.

When I said I was waiting to see something, it was regarding TH. all the last games I've played with him (at least to the extent I remember), when he was a civ, he voted almost last. He's a lot more indecisive. This very early vote gets you the and maybe even my vote

TH is acting out of character:

Two things are catching my eye at the moment:

1. Way too many people are behaving out of character.
Epi wants to vote for an absent player.
TH is voting early for llama without any reason whatsoever.
Ace is apparently posting a lot more than people are used from him.
I had more, but I forgot by the time I got here.

2. There seems to be some very strong 1 on 1 battles, which is something I'm not used to seeing in these games, especially not on day 1
DH and Epi
Ace and Trice
TH and llama

I'm assuming this is somehow related to the nature of the game, but I'm also thinking that maybe there are roles of winning terms that require taking out a specific player. Not sure what it says about the alignment of the players. I've played games where one of the mafia had to kill another in order to win, and I know the opposite can be done as well.

But these strong convictions are worrying on day 1 to say the least.

TH is suddenly good:

SVS, you said that you expect baddies not to be as aggressive because they don't know who they are lynching. But the thing is, they'll probably be voting anyway, and the chances of them getting a baddie are just as high when they play a less aggressive game. I would say this is their chance to go really strongly after players because if they take out one of their own, they'll just end up looking good without having to carry the guilt of throwing a team mate under the bus ("hey, I didn't know").

So maybe those going so strongly after others have an agenda after all

linki: llama, the thing that's making me hesitate with TH is the fact that he seems so casual and laid back, which I agree with SVS is more indicative of his civ game

TH continues to act out of character:

It's funny how TH is not even trying to come up with a reason to vote llama

TH CONTINUES to act out of character:

I can think of a few reasons for TH to not want to vote for somebody he thinks is bad

1) TH is bad and doesn't want to kill a teammate
2) TH is bad and knows that's not his teammate, but doesn't want to be involved with lynching a civ
3) TH threw out a random idea he doesn't even believe

anyone got other theories?

FWIW, I never made the connection before that the strict daily regimen thing would mean posting challenges, but it seems possible now that it's been pointed out

I have not ruled out voting for Russ in subsequent lynches, and hopefully by then we'll also hear his side of the story (if the silence only lasts today).

Did you get a challenge to vote for llama and get people talking about how ridiculous your vote is?

TH is good and anyone who says otherwise must die. This emerged slightly after TH openly said he doesn't want to lynch baddies.

Crazy enough, I'm actually contemplating voting for llama. I don't feel like he's his usual self. I feel like he knows TH's reason for voting him can't be true baddie TH, because he wouldn't do that, yet he's going after him and trying to find something to justify it with. I also don't think that TH's indecisiveness regarding the D0 vote was fishy in any way, and I don't think llama really thought it was either.
Something about how llama is playing strikes me as not genuine

Also there's this. People defending Yotsuba are likely bad:

The person most likely to feel it's important to depict Yotsuba as good guys is the one who's a Kira

Discussing Yotsuba is a waste of time. Nothing to see here.

Why does it even matter at this point? If you think Epi is a Yotsuba, do you really think he's the one we should be focusing on now? Unless you think he's a baddie talking about the Yotsuba. If he's a baddie, making the Yotsuba seem baddies to us is much better strategy. Either way, it's a waste of time

Nobody's buying what you're selling, FZ.

I thought that TH's early vote was a big hint to him being baddie, but when I saw that he basically has no reason to vote like he did, I changed my mind and started thinking that his behaviour is not related to his alignment but to something else I have no idea what. So yeah, at least for the moment, that big sign for me became null

[thellama73]

To clarify, I only said that if Russ gets insanified tomorrow, it would be inconclusive. Enough observation and we will be able to see a pattern, but 1 or 2 Days is not enough time to establish a pattern. There could be an insanifier in the game was my point.

My point is, why are you establishing such a high burden of proof on Russ specifically? Will you give the same benefit of the doubt to the rest of us? You certainly didn't to me. Yu refuse to even offer an explanation for your vote for me. Shouldn't I be allowed the same three day grace period as Russ? If not, why not?

[triceratopzeuhl]

I thought that TH's early vote was a big hint to him being baddie, but when I saw that he basically has no reason to vote like he did, I changed my mind and started thinking that his behaviour is not related to his alignment but to something else I have no idea what. So yeah, at least for the moment, that big sign for me became null

You think that voting without even the slightest attempt at justification is civvy behaviour?

[Black Rock]

Boo you wound me

You said you were considering voting a low poster. I don't think any SVS (civ, baddie, or indy) would do that in a normal game, which made me think you were a baddie since the baddies are not in their normal position. You didn't go for it, but if you had I'd have voted for you on the spot because that just would have been a whole other level of out of characterish-ness.

I haven't had time to read SVS yet so I missed that but you have a good point here.

[FZ.]

I thought that TH's early vote was a big hint to him being baddie, but when I saw that he basically has no reason to vote like he did, I changed my mind and started thinking that his behaviour is not related to his alignment but to something else I have no idea what. So yeah, at least for the moment, that big sign for me became null

You think that voting without even the slightest attempt at justification is civvy behaviour?

No, but a smart baddie, like I think TH is, wouldn't be caught dead without justifying his vote and trying to "build a case" because that's his civvie game, and he's not that stupid to change it so drastically

[bea]

Hey guys - I have 11ty billion pages to catch up on. Working on that now.

[FZ.]

I wonder if there are people whose secret roles say that when they are lynched, they don't die but rather change alignment or something happens to them, which is why people are behaving odd hoping to be lynched

[triceratopzeuhl]

FZ - You think his normal civvy games consists of, essentially, refusing to contributing in a meaningful fashion to the lynch efforts, but also that he's a smart player? (no offense TH ;o)

FZ - linki - I don't see anybody who I would describe as trying to get lynched in this game, TH maybe depending on your interpretation of his posts

[thellama73]

I wonder if there are people whose secret roles say that when they are lynched, they don't die but rather change alignment or something happens to them, which is why people are behaving odd hoping to be lynched

[thellama73]

The proper way to investigate is this:
1. Collect all available facts.
2. Construct a theory that explains all available facts.

What too many people in this game do is this:
1. Construct a theory.
2. Collect/invent facts that support that theory.

You guys are free to disagree with me, but you're wrong, and I'm going to continue saying you're wrong.

"Hi, my name is FZ. I have a theory that TH is good, so I will engage in random guessing about the role secrets to try to support my theory rather than draw reasonable conclusions from the available facts."

[FZ.]

FZ - You think his normal civvy games consists of, essentially, refusing to contributing in a meaningful fashion to the lynch efforts, but also that he's a smart player? (no offense TH ;o)

FZ - linki - I don't see anybody who I would describe as trying to get lynched in this game, TH maybe depending on your interpretation of his posts

No, I think there's a reason he's acting this way, and it's not necessarily because he's bad. It's like in Are you being served mafia when MP was acting so out of character and was a civ who had to act really weird and do things we didn't know about.

And yeah, I was referring to TH.

@linki: Hi, my name is llama and I ignore common sense and then call my behaviour "drawing conclusions from available facts"