Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]

[rabbit8]

Posting this here in case rabbit is playing the fun card to get people to forget about the business card.

I'm never easy to forget. Neither is anything I do.

[rabbit8]

Violence is never the answer.

I have a vote that says otherwise.

What a strange reply.

[rabbit8]

Archer Ave.

[Golden]

There is a reason I was encouraging civs to steal SVS's will... the civs need it to be somewhere where the baddies do not know it is.

It's like bea said. Now that bf died, the target has just shifted to SVS with the will. Should we just continue to lynch everyone who votes first for the person with the will? If MM, or rabbit, or whoever votes for SVS first, does that mean they are the baddie just trying to get the will?

I'm not sure how we got here:

I kind of feel like you're painting BF as even worse for what he did with this post. Like you pushed the lynch on BF and want him to look worse off for it. But I can't imagine what you had to gain from doing it after what Zomba has posted. And lets face it made it even worse as she dug he grave a little deeper back there basically confirming she is a baddie.

I do not think Zombs is a 'confirmed' baddie. I think her comment simply confirmed what I think even SVS acknowledged - that no matter the wording of the will, and how much bf read into it, zombs is probably one of only a handful of roles...

But her decision to work through it with llama and come out swinging and trying hard... while it could be a fabrication... feels true and civ to me.

I am not seeing the game the same way you are, thats for sure. I think the baddies in the bf vote were probably esconsed later. I don't think any of them would want to be on the hook as having voted a particular way to get an item this hotly debated this early. Like, if SVS is bad, don't you think she would know she would get this kind of heat today? Why take the risk?

[rabbit8]

Please. SVS takes risks. Keep thinking baddies never make any moves. Keep watching them dominate you.

[Turnip Head]

You gotta risk it to get the biscuit.

[Epignosis]

I know juliets is in bed right now. I was talking to her in IRC about bourbon. Long Con, however, has been evading a simple question.

[Marmot]

There is a reason I was encouraging civs to steal SVS's will... the civs need it to be somewhere where the baddies do not know it is.

It's like bea said. Now that bf died, the target has just shifted to SVS with the will. Should we just continue to lynch everyone who votes first for the person with the will? If MM, or rabbit, or whoever votes for SVS first, does that mean they are the baddie just trying to get the will?

I'm not sure how we got here:

I kind of feel like you're painting BF as even worse for what he did with this post. Like you pushed the lynch on BF and want him to look worse off for it. But I can't imagine what you had to gain from doing it after what Zomba has posted. And lets face it made it even worse as she dug he grave a little deeper back there basically confirming she is a baddie.

I do not think Zombs is a 'confirmed' baddie. I think her comment simply confirmed what I think even SVS acknowledged - that no matter the wording of the will, and how much bf read into it, zombs is probably one of only a handful of roles...

But her decision to work through it with llama and come out swinging and trying hard... while it could be a fabrication... feels true and civ to me.

I am not seeing the game the same way you are, thats for sure. I think the baddies in the bf vote were probably esconsed later. I don't think any of them would want to be on the hook as having voted a particular way to get an item this hotly debated this early. Like, if SVS is bad, don't you think she would know she would get this kind of heat today? Why take the risk?

I'll have to think some more about it.

Linki: I think we should lynch TH tomorrow.

[Golden]

Please. SVS takes risks. Keep thinking baddies never make any moves. Keep watching them dominate you.

Whats the point of the move though... everyone knows where the will is, it will surely just be stolen tonight??? By someone...

So, what, take a whole lot of heat to get the will, but have everyone know where it is anyway? Surely they would have been better off NOT lynching bf, trying to lynch someone else, and NKing bf.

I honestly don't think this theory checks out. It doesn't make sense to me.

[Marmot]

Please. SVS takes risks. Keep thinking baddies never make any moves. Keep watching them dominate you.

Whats the point of the move though... everyone knows where the will is, it will surely just be stolen tonight??? By someone...

So, what, take a whole lot of heat to get the will, but have everyone know where it is anyway? Surely they would have been better off NOT lynching bf, trying to lynch someone else, and NKing bf.

I honestly don't think this theory checks out. It doesn't make sense to me.

There is a particular role on the millionaire's team that can store papers in vaults.

I don't know if baddies can transfer items around between teamies, but my guess is that the vault keeps papers safe from thieves.

[Turnip Head]

Linki: I think we should lynch TH tomorrow.

Wrong game

[Marmot]

Linki: I think we should lynch TH tomorrow.

Wrong game

Right back at you.

What do you think of SVS?

What do you think of Epig's questioning of LC?

What do you think of LC?

[rabbit8]

You gotta risk it to get the biscuit.

You know what's the great pay off on early risk? Getting cred........and heat. It works. When it backfires though.....

I don't even know if I think SVS is bad. I'm asking a few questions. She seems to really want to push this Oliver 50/50 crap. It pings me for her game I'm used too. How much has changed it yet to be seen.

Who honestly thinks Zombas a civvie? I know a lot of you want to sit around and sing and pretend we are not going to act on this "info" Because "nice stuff". Be real. Her responses have been exactly the same as "Aces is a huge asset"....There, Roger Rabbit. Don't let her get away with it twice.

Golden, getting the Will and saying whats on it to have it stolen and confirmed does what? Gets he believed shes telling the truth about the will. That sir, is a purpose in itself. Think. Or you got other agendas?

[Turnip Head]

Linki: I think we should lynch TH tomorrow.

Wrong game

Right back at you.

What do you think of SVS?

What do you think of Epig's questioning of LC?

What do you think of LC?

Those are all good questions that I'll hopefully be able to discuss tomorrow.

[Marmot]

Linki: I think we should lynch TH tomorrow.

Wrong game

Right back at you.

What do you think of SVS?

What do you think of Epig's questioning of LC?

What do you think of LC?

Those are all good questions that I'll hopefully be able to discuss tomorrow.

What makes you incapable of discussing them now?

[Turnip Head]

The fact that I don't control the NK.

[Golden]

Golden, getting the Will and saying whats on it to have it stolen and confirmed does what? Gets he believed shes telling the truth about the will. That sir, is a purpose in itself. Think. Or you got other agendas?

I don't understand this, could you rephrase?

As for 'who honestly believes zombs is a civvie'.

Well I honestly do. To me, I do not come to the same conclusion you do. I come to a different one, as the most likely answer. I don't rule out she could be bad, but I just genuinely think there is another explanation I find more compelling.

[Long Con]

He wants me to play Epig's mindgame first.

[Long Con]

He wants me to play Epig's mindgame first.

That was about TH.

[Dom]

Here is something that caught my eye today. First we have blindfaeth's original revelation that regarding the will.


Now this post doesn't match up with blindfaeth's statement. blindfaeth suggested he would inherit "a large sum of money". SVS stated that she would inherit "everything she has". SVS then confirmed that the "everything" meant items.

If SVS is on Zomba's team, this is a perfect result. SVS now has the will, and can manipulate its content to the rest of us if she wants.

If SVS is a civvie, I feel that events would have unfolded differently. Would she have voted for an "infodropper" early and before everyone else?

*cut for brevity*

would you advocate a zombi or an svs lynch first them?

[Golden]

He wants me to play Epig's mindgame first.

I want you to play epi's mindgame, please...

I shouldn't have to be the only one whose played.

Here is something for you, though, LC. I said, on day one, that we should be very wary of voting for self-voters, because they might be the millionaire and fishing for votes to make them more powerful. Why didn't you take that into account?

[Long Con]

I don't know if baddies can transfer items around between teamies, but my guess is that the vault keeps papers safe from thieves.

I don't think so:

How Items Work

Some items can be used to confer benefits, some cannot. Some items will be consumed when used, some will not. Most items can be stolen. When someone is lynched, all of the items they possess go to the people who voted for them, in order. So the first vote gets the first item, etc. When someone is NKed, whoever performed the kill gets the item. Items may not be voluntarily traded between players.

[rabbit8]

Golden, getting the Will and saying whats on it to have it stolen and confirmed does what? Gets he believed shes telling the truth about the will. That sir, is a purpose in itself. Think. Or you got other agendas?

I don't understand this, could you rephrase?

As for 'who honestly believes zombs is a civvie'.

Well I honestly do. To me, I do not come to the same conclusion you do. I come to a different one, as the most likely answer. I don't rule out she could be bad, but I just genuinely think there is another explanation I find more compelling.

How you come to another one is beyond me. Agree to disagree then.

There are a few reasons to get the will. One being there is a civvie switcher and an indy thief. Getting cred with a civvie or Indy by telling the truth never hurts. She knew she would not keep it long.

[Marmot]

TH, that is the second time tonight you have subtly stated that you are a civilian.

Yes, I am keeping track.

Linki fuckef

[Turnip Head]

It was not very subtle of me at all, but that doesn't make it untrue. You seem very talkative at nighttime for someone who didn't show up until 48 hours after the game started though, and very insistent that I behave the same.

[rabbit8]

It was not very subtle of me at all, but that doesn't make it untrue. You seem very talkative at nighttime for someone who didn't show up until 48 hours after the game started though, and very insistent that I behave the same.

It's not very civvie like to keep ideas out of the thread.......

[Turnip Head]

It was not very subtle of me at all, but that doesn't make it untrue. You seem very talkative at nighttime for someone who didn't show up until 48 hours after the game started though, and very insistent that I behave the same.

It's not very civvie like to keep ideas out of the thread.......

[Long Con]

He wants me to play Epig's mindgame first.

I want you to play epi's mindgame, please...

I shouldn't have to be the only one whose played.

Here is something for you, though, LC. I said, on day one, that we should be very wary of voting for self-voters, because they might be the millionaire and fishing for votes to make them more powerful. Why didn't you take that into account?

Fine, because you said 'please', and in the interest of finding out where he's going: I have voted for metalmarsh before for repeatedly self-voting. Epig knows this already because it happened in the game he hosted. In that game, I posted my opinion about the repeated self-voting practice, quoting from the Film Director's game which was, I believe, my original statement on the subject on The Syndicate. The basis of this opinion was formed long ago on Lostpedia, when a player there self-voted every time on Day One.

Epig knows all this already, and lied about not recalling me doing it before. I don't know what his angle is, or why he'd lie about it, but the fact that he lied about it makes me wary of responding the way he obviously wants me to.

I didn't take that into account, Golden, when I voted. It's a fine theory, but it didn't cross my mind during the time I voted. Perhaps we should all pile on the votes to the lynch leader as a general rule in order to minimize the Millionaire's advantage.

[Marmot]

Here is something that caught my eye today. First we have blindfaeth's original revelation that regarding the will.


Now this post doesn't match up with blindfaeth's statement. blindfaeth suggested he would inherit "a large sum of money". SVS stated that she would inherit "everything she has". SVS then confirmed that the "everything" meant items.

If SVS is on Zomba's team, this is a perfect result. SVS now has the will, and can manipulate its content to the rest of us if she wants.

If SVS is a civvie, I feel that events would have unfolded differently. Would she have voted for an "infodropper" early and before everyone else?

*cut for brevity*

would you advocate a zombi or an svs lynch first them?

Zomba. If Zomba is civ, I doubt that SVS is a baddie. But the inverse is far more likely.

Linki @TH: I find your comments this evening to be less than useful, amid some bountiful discussion.

Linki @rabbit: Agreed. Better to get the thoughts out than to take them to your grave.

[Golden]

At RM, everyone shut up at night!

Except me. I never shut up. Is that why I always get nightkilled?

Lol, rabbit, I guess we are just seeing it a different way. You could be right, I could be right. It's just a gut feel for me.

And I see your point on SVS, although I still don't think she is bad. I'm just not seeing it, SVS is seeming very logical to me... I may not always agree with her (certainly I tried to convince her that bf wasn't bad), but nothing has struck me as not being genuine. If you are right about zombs and SVS, then :bowdowntorabbit:

[Long Con]

I understand where you're going with this Epi, and I would like to hear LC's answer to the question.

Your turn.

[Golden]

It was not very subtle of me at all, but that doesn't make it untrue. You seem very talkative at nighttime for someone who didn't show up until 48 hours after the game started though, and very insistent that I behave the same.

It's not very civvie like to keep ideas out of the thread.......

Rabbit, how many times do I have to tell you there is no such thing as civvie behaviour?

[Turnip Head]

I understand where you're going with this Epi, and I would like to hear LC's answer to the question.

Your turn.

I said that so you would respond to him. It's Epi's turn again if we're going in order. I have my thoughts, but I still need to see where this discussion is going.

[Marmot]

I understand where you're going with this Epi, and I would like to hear LC's answer to the question.

Your turn.

I said that so you would respond to him. It's Epi's turn again if we're going in order. I have my thoughts, but I still need to see where this discussion is going.

Why is it necessary for you to see where the discussion is going before you will become capable of questions that are relevant now?

[Golden]

Epig knows all this already, and lied about not recalling me doing it before. I don't know what his angle is, or why he'd lie about it, but the fact that he lied about it makes me wary of responding the way he obviously wants me to.

I have to admit, although I fall well short of thinking that epi 'lied' about this... my recollection was that you did vote MM on day one in Roger Rabbit, so I am interested to know what epi meant when he said 'it was not exactly the same'.

I'm getting the hang of him now, and I'm assuming what he meant was something like 'it was very similar, but I have a difference in mind'... so... want to hear Epi's response now that you have given yours.

[rabbit8]

At RM, everyone shut up at night!

Except me. I never shut up. Is that why I always get nightkilled?

Lol, rabbit, I guess we are just seeing it a different way. You could be right, I could be right. It's just a gut feel for me.

And I see your point on SVS, although I still don't think she is bad. I'm just not seeing it, SVS is seeming very logical to me... I may not always agree with her (certainly I tried to convince her that bf wasn't bad), but nothing has struck me as not being genuine. If you are right about zombs and SVS, then :bowdowntorabbit:

I'm not condemning SVS. I like to at least get a few jabs in on her though. She will respond. I will then make a further more educated guess as to her alignment. That is all....

It was not very subtle of me at all, but that doesn't make it untrue. You seem very talkative at nighttime for someone who didn't show up until 48 hours after the game started though, and very insistent that I behave the same.

It's not very civvie like to keep ideas out of the thread.......

Rabbit, how many times do I have to tell you there is no such thing as civvie behaviour?

I'm trying to see the game as you and BF, Golden. How am I doing?
Trying out this empathy thing. I've been told I lack the proper brain functions to feel compassion though.

[Zombarella]

I know juliets is in bed right now. I was talking to her in IRC about bourbon. Long Con, however, has been evading a simple question.

Ummm...you were RL talking to Juliets while she was in bed?

[Turnip Head]

I understand where you're going with this Epi, and I would like to hear LC's answer to the question.

Your turn.

I said that so you would respond to him. It's Epi's turn again if we're going in order. I have my thoughts, but I still need to see where this discussion is going.

Why is it necessary for you to see where the discussion is going before you will become capable of questions that are relevant now?

Don't wanna talk in detail at night. I obviously have thoughts. I'll be happy to talk to you come sunup. Really not that hard to grasp.

[Golden]

I'm trying to see the game as you and BF, Golden. How am I doing?

Pretty good, actually. But, now you have to pick a best mafia bud...

[rabbit8]

I'm trying to see the game as you and BF, Golden. How am I doing?

Pretty good, actually. But, now you have to pick a best mafia bud...

LC.

[Golden]

[Long Con]

It was not very subtle of me at all, but that doesn't make it untrue. You seem very talkative at nighttime for someone who didn't show up until 48 hours after the game started though, and very insistent that I behave the same.

It's not very civvie like to keep ideas out of the thread.......

Rabbit, how many times do I have to tell you there is no such thing as civvie behaviour?

Is there such a thing as baddie behaviour?

[Long Con]

I'm trying to see the game as you and BF, Golden. How am I doing?

Pretty good, actually. But, now you have to pick a best mafia bud...

LC.

Nice!

[Golden]

It was not very subtle of me at all, but that doesn't make it untrue. You seem very talkative at nighttime for someone who didn't show up until 48 hours after the game started though, and very insistent that I behave the same.

It's not very civvie like to keep ideas out of the thread.......

Rabbit, how many times do I have to tell you there is no such thing as civvie behaviour?

Is there such a thing as baddie behaviour?

Did you read day one, by chance?

[Long Con]

It was not very subtle of me at all, but that doesn't make it untrue. You seem very talkative at nighttime for someone who didn't show up until 48 hours after the game started though, and very insistent that I behave the same.

It's not very civvie like to keep ideas out of the thread.......

Rabbit, how many times do I have to tell you there is no such thing as civvie behaviour?

Is there such a thing as baddie behaviour?

Did you read day one, by chance?

Yes!

[Marmot]

I understand where you're going with this Epi, and I would like to hear LC's answer to the question.

Your turn.

I said that so you would respond to him. It's Epi's turn again if we're going in order. I have my thoughts, but I still need to see where this discussion is going.

Why is it necessary for you to see where the discussion is going before you will become capable of questions that are relevant now?

Don't wanna talk in detail at night. I obviously have thoughts. I'll be happy to talk to you come sunup. Really not that hard to grasp.

I'll have some coffee ready for you.

[Zombarella]

Zomba. If Zomba is civ, I doubt that SVS is a baddie. But the inverse is far more likely.

I'm confused about this inverse thing. Are you saying that if you lynch SVS and she is civ then you doubt that I am a baddie? This is exactly what I was talking about earlier re the buddying up to me. SVS has had BTSC with me before and she knows this is something that makes me crazy. In fact, I think it's what got me NKd (as a civ) in Death Note. SVS, LC, Bea, Golden, I hope that you guys are civs and that you will listen when I tell you to STOP DEFENDING ME!!!! I will be looking at all three of you during the day tomorrow and if any of you flip bad before I die - so help me - hell hath no fury!

As for MM and Rabbit - all this speculation is just speculation. What if....millionaire...BF lying....SVS lying....you are missing the main point of my posts (on purpose?? ) My whole problem with what BF said was how it was going to affect my role. Let's just say that I am the Millionaire, wouldn't I be wanting votes to make me stronger? How does what he said ruin that role at all? I'll tell you - it doesn't. Your logic is lazy and lazy logic leads to lynched civs.

In Roger Rabbit - the only game where I played a baddie - half our team laid low the whole game and didn't get killed until the very end. I'd bet real money that this is happening again in this game. Where is A Person or BWT, one little post here and there, just enough to get credit for posting without committing to anything?

@LC - I'm going to use my stock certificate to start a fire tonight. Your suggestion intrigued me, it's not doing me any good, and I don't want Rabbit or MM or SVS or to get anything more than a pile of ashes if they decide that I need to die.

[Long Con]

Zomba. If Zomba is civ, I doubt that SVS is a baddie. But the inverse is far more likely.

I'm confused about this inverse thing. Are you saying that if you lynch SVS and she is civ then you doubt that I am a baddie? This is exactly what I was talking about earlier re the buddying up to me. SVS has had BTSC with me before and she knows this is something that makes me crazy. In fact, I think it's what got me NKd (as a civ) in Death Note. SVS, LC, Bea, Golden, I hope that you guys are civs and that you will listen when I tell you to STOP DEFENDING ME!!!! I will be looking at all three of you during the day tomorrow and if any of you flip bad before I die - so help me - hell hath no fury!

As for MM and Rabbit - all this speculation is just speculation. What if....millionaire...BF lying....SVS lying....you are missing the main point of my posts (on purpose?? ) My whole problem with what BF said was how it was going to affect my role. Let's just say that I am the Millionaire, wouldn't I be wanting votes to make me stronger? How does what he said ruin that role at all? I'll tell you - it doesn't. Your logic is lazy and lazy logic leads to lynched civs.

In Roger Rabbit - the only game where I played a baddie - half our team laid low the whole game and didn't get killed until the very end. I'd bet real money that this is happening again in this game. Where is A Person or BWT, one little post here and there, just enough to get credit for posting without committing to anything?

@LC - I'm going to use my stock certificate to start a fire tonight. Your suggestion intrigued me, it's not doing me any good, and I don't want Rabbit or MM or SVS or to get anything more than a pile of ashes if they decide that I need to die.

Did I defend you? I don't recall doing so. I won't defend you in the future, no problemo.

It'll be cool if you can start a fire, but I wouldn't be surprised if Llama just said that as a way of saying you can't do anything with your item, at least right now.

[Marmot]

Zomba. If Zomba is civ, I doubt that SVS is a baddie. But the inverse is far more likely.

I'm confused about this inverse thing. Are you saying that if you lynch SVS and she is civ then you doubt that I am a baddie? This is exactly what I was talking about earlier re the buddying up to me. SVS has had BTSC with me before and she knows this is something that makes me crazy. In fact, I think it's what got me NKd (as a civ) in Death Note. SVS, LC, Bea, Golden, I hope that you guys are civs and that you will listen when I tell you to STOP DEFENDING ME!!!! I will be looking at all three of you during the day tomorrow and if any of you flip bad before I die - so help me - hell hath no fury!

Actually, I understand this perfectly, because I'm the one who reviewed all of SVS's interactions with players and vice versa, and determined you were a very strong candidate for her civvie BTSC partner.

By inverse, I mean that if you are baddie, SVS could be civ. Also you mentioned four players that are defending you, but summed it up to three.

As for MM and Rabbit - all this speculation is just speculation. What if....millionaire...BF lying....SVS lying....you are missing the main point of my posts (on purpose?? ) My whole problem with what BF said was how it was going to affect my role. Let's just say that I am the Millionaire, wouldn't I be wanting votes to make me stronger? How does what he said ruin that role at all? I'll tell you - it doesn't. Your logic is lazy and lazy logic leads to lynched civs.

In Roger Rabbit - the only game where I played a baddie - half our team laid low the whole game and didn't get killed until the very end. I'd bet real money that this is happening again in this game. Where is A Person or BWT, one little post here and there, just enough to get credit for posting without committing to anything?

@LC - I'm going to use my stock certificate to start a fire tonight. Your suggestion intrigued me, it's not doing me any good, and I don't want Rabbit or MM or SVS or to get anything more than a pile of ashes if they decide that I need to die.

A word to the wise; we should not be discussing ongoing games anywhere outside of the designated areas. Yes I realize I did this earlier.

[Zombarella]

I am now going to go with Spacedaisy to her wedding dress fitting and then I have a girl scout meeting at my house and then my son's 13th birthday party. So I won't be around today so that I can respond to every possible suspicion against me so that probably makes me bad too.

Here's what I think. I think that BF might be bad and is trying to get a civ lynched or he's a civ that came in playing this game all wrong (re. Golden), got some heat, and then decided to switch the heat to me by lying or telling the truth or both. Huge question, why didn't he vote for me so that he could get the money he claims he gets when I die???

Killing someone for their money is an inherently bad thing to do. I don't think most players would want to appear that cut-throat. Perhaps it could have been done if BF had not told us about the will situation... he could have come after you, even if he's a Civvie, with secret greed motivations.

Either way, I'm going to vote for him.

My game strategy going forward: I want to look at people who don't read the thread. As I baddie I knew who the civs were so I didn't have to read the thread to try to figure out who was who. On Day 2 I'm going to have an eye out for players who obviously don't know what has been said or claim to be too busy or drunk or whatever to catch up. I'm busy, and I've read all 18 pages of this damn thing! So there!

Zomba out.

+1 I like this, that sounds like a smart way to play.

This is my official "buddying up to Zomba" post, just to make it easier for later when someone accuses me of it.

Thanks. That was easy.