Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]

[Zombarella]

I voted Clark St. because I vote for the top option in night polls.

[Golden]

Are you allowed to speak more about how your actions were limited? Or do you think this is not a good idea.

[birdwithteeth11]

Lots of linki

Is this because I suspected you at first or because of that comment I made? Why are you and Rabbit so sure I'm bad? Am I just an easy target at this point?

So easy MM was lynched.



[/quote]
Pretty much this. His lynch reveal sealed the deal for me. And put you on the top of my suspects list.

[Zombarella]

I was trying to find a picture of a zombie eating a rabbit but I got distracted and found rabbit zombies instead. Rabbit - these will be our babies:

[Zombarella]

Are you allowed to speak more about how your actions were limited? Or do you think this is not a good idea.

I was targeted by a role power. That's all I want to say. But I'm good now.

@ BWT - WHY? Why am I at the top of your list? What did I even do?

[Zombarella]

^^ Good meaning that I'm not limited any more.

[Zombarella]

Lots of linki

Is this because I suspected you at first or because of that comment I made? Why are you and Rabbit so sure I'm bad? Am I just an easy target at this point?

So easy MM was lynched.

Pretty much this. His lynch reveal sealed the deal for me. And put you on the top of my suspects list.[/quote]

I think you might have messed up the quote names when you were editing. But for real, why me?

[Zombarella]

Oh - oops. Now I messed up the quotes. Sorry. ^^

[Epignosis]

I don't know what the hell you two (or three?) are going on about. Preview your post before you submit. Would it kill you to do that?

[Zombarella]

I don't know what the hell you two (or three?) are going on about. Preview your post before you submit. Would it kill you to do that?

Maybe....

[Epignosis]

I have a new suspect. Is anyone interested, or should I stop talking in hope that for once civilians could win a full game here?

[rabbit8]

I have a new suspect. Is anyone interested, or should I stop talking in hope that for once civilians could win a full game here?

I am. Go.

[juliets]

Hi again.

Sorry I wasn't able to vote. I would have voted MM because he was for sure getting lynched and I didn't want to put my vote on the Millionaire if MM wasn't him. Which he wasn't. Sorry MM. RIP.

Juliets - I owe you a HUGE apology. I got your name mixed up with Canuklehead. You were not looking for a bandwagon. MM was suggesting that Canuck was looking for a bandwagon. I am going to look into this more.

Rabbit - I don't know what I've done that has made you so myopic about me being bad. I'm posting and reading and looking for baddies and taking notes. I don't know what more you want. I made one comment three days ago when I was upset.

Even if I was bad, which I'm not, there would be four other baddies out there that we would need to find. We know that you think I'm the devil. Is there anyone else that you suspect? Any other thoughts?

Ohhh i see Zomba. No harm done.

[Golden]

I'm always interested, Epi.

[Golden]

Also, I've LizKeen to discuss, but I'll get to that a little later.

[juliets]

I have a new suspect. Is anyone interested, or should I stop talking in hope that for once civilians could win a full game here?

I am. Go.

Yes Epi I'm interested too.

[Epignosis]

Also, I've LizKeen to discuss, but I'll get to that a little later.

It would seem I was beaten to the punch. I'll talk anyway. One moment.

[birdwithteeth11]

I'm interested as well, Epig.

And Zomba, pretty sure I've already mentioned why I found you suspicious. But if you can't find it, let me know and I'll either go find why or let you know.

[Golden]

Epi, BR said I'd get used to you eventually.

She just didn't realise how fast I'd learn

[Golden]

I did a full reread of LizKeen yesterday, so it will be interesting to see what we are seeing.

I wouldn't go so far as to say I suspect her. In some ways, I think she is coming across civ. But there have been a couple of things she has said that I think are very noteworthy, and I tihnk she merits healthy discussion.

[Golden]

I meant, it will be interesting to see if what we are seeing is the same.

[Epignosis]

I did a full reread of LizKeen yesterday, so it will be interesting to see what we are seeing.

I wouldn't go so far as to say I suspect her. In some ways, I think she is coming across civ. But there have been a couple of things she has said that I think are very noteworthy, and I tihnk she merits healthy discussion.

I hosted LizKeen last year. So I'll be a bit.

[juliets]

OK, i'll read it in the morning Epi, it's my bedtime.

[Long Con]

So Zomba was tormented by reptiles, enthralled, dosed with sketchy medicine, or maybe an item was used on her?

[A Person]

Michagain

[rabbit8]

Michagain

Who are you? Have you been playing all game?

[Zombarella]

I'm interested as well, Epig.

And Zomba, pretty sure I've already mentioned why I found you suspicious. But if you can't find it, let me know and I'll either go find why or let you know.

Don't trouble yourself. I'll find it.

[Zombarella]

I am interested in a possible Liz Keen case. Her comment to me about my vote pinged me. It was moot, but it pinged me just the same.

[Golden]

Michagain

Who are you? Have you been playing all game?

And why can't you spell Michigan?

[A Person]

Michagain

Who are you? Have you been playing all game?

I'm Matt, and I have voted in all but one poll so I think I have been playing most game.

And why can't you spell Michigan?

It was a joke referencing the fact that I had voted Michigan the first time. Michigan + again. Funny right.

[Turnip Head]

I'm going to vote Michagain as well.

[Epignosis]

No, I've decided I'm going to try to be brief:

In The Legend of Zelda, LizKeen was an important civilian role, and lasted most of the game. (Okay, she was evil, but this was a reverse game, where Ganon and his minions were civilians and Link, Zelda, and the Old Man were bad. Zola was independent, if you must know).

In 80 posts, LizKeen never once put together a case like she did against S~V~S. So it was strange for me to see this monster. I was already convinced MM was bad though, so I didn't publicize my reaction at the time.

LizKeen is going after the wrong person, knows it, and came up with some weak reasons.

[rabbit8]

Michagain

Who are you? Have you been playing all game?

I'm Matt, and I have voted in all but one poll so I think I have been playing most game.

Oh, that's nice, Matt.

Does voting in polls satisfy some odd urge you have?

[birdwithteeth11]

I voted Michigan Avenue because of Matt's pun.

Michagain

Who are you? Have you been playing all game?

I'm Matt, and I have voted in all but one poll so I think I have been playing most game.

Oh, that's nice, Matt.

Does voting in polls satisfy some odd urge you have?

I think it's more that Matt is so quiet and hardly ever posts (either on-topic or off-topic). Which always makes him nearly impossible to read for me.

It also slightly makes me want to lynch him every game.

[Epignosis]

I have to get my ass to bed. I'll elaborate further in the morning.

[Marmot]

Michagain

Who are you? Have you been playing all game?

I'm Matt, and I have voted in all but one poll so I think I have been playing most game.

And why can't you spell Michigan?

It was a joke referencing the fact that I had voted Michigan the first time. Michigan + again. Funny right.

I got the joke. I thought it was funny.

[Golden]

(I've decided to split this up into different, discrete thoughts)

So, here are just some things I've note I've seen from LizKeen. I honestly haven't decided whether or not the sum total is something that pings me. What I will say is, LizKeen is bringing original ideas to the thread, which as a concept reads civilian to me. But, on the other hand, some of the original ideas she has brought do ping me a little.

So are the celestial a separate team? Mafia? If so I'm not really keen on blindly following bf as he could be trying to gain more power for them if he is in fact not mafia. On the other hand if he's on to something about a mafia I'm not opposed to giving some thought to who he thinks may be. I'd feel a little more comfortable about voting a baddie who perhaps wouldn't give an unconfirmed civvie more power though.

LizKeen suggests bf could be a celestial trying to gain power for them. Interesting. As far as I can recall, LK is the only one to suggest the celestials have been anything other than complete civilian. She later followed this up by asking this question of Mr Fung:

Mr. Fung, do you know if the ivory, jade and amber would be dangerous if they were in the hands of the wrong team?

Which was answered by llama in his host post to say no.

It does demonstrate, to me, that LK's concern and interest in whether or not the celestials were bad has been consistent. But who is it that might be most worried about whether or not the celestials are a threat?? And... the way these were phrased interests me. Would they be dangerous in the hands of 'the wrong team'... not the mafia. Not the celestials. Nothing that needs to raise an eyebrow, but something that gets her the answer she wants. I feel as though I could see this being a mafia fishing to see if the celestials were a threat to them.

[Dom]

Bass-- do you have any idea why MP made contradictory statements and didn't answer my questions? Any explanation would be nice.

Why would he have an explanation?

Actually, this reminds me of when TH replaced in for Roxy in Film Directors. Dom was suspicious of Roxy, so he essentially asked TH to reread Roxy and make a case on her (himself).

Btw, Dom was bad in that game.

*pls dom pls*

RIP tho. :/

[Golden]

I'm going back and re-reading (a task I dread) everyone bf was suspicious of so he won't have died in vain. The mafia would have most definitely wanted him so and I'd say there's at least one if not more of you in those 8 votes. Black Rock is off the hook obviously and I'm giving Zomb the benefit of the doubt now so that at least narrows it down to 6 for me.

LK thinks there are probably baddies hiding in the bf lynch. She narrows it down to 6. She says she will reread them. But then, after her reread:

I have been rereading since my last post and had several posts I had quoted and commented on up to page 15 and then screwed up and lost it all. I'll have to start again tomorrow. Based on what I had reread I would say my current suspicions are SVS, rabbit, LongCon and Vompatti. But I'll have to go into that further tomorrow because it's really late and I'm tired.

She picks four people. Here are the bf voters:

blindfaeth
8
S~V~S (7), Dom (8), rabbit8 (9), Epignosis (10), birdwithteeth11 (13), Zomberella12 (15), Elohcin (16), Black Rock (20)
40%

No LC or Vompatti. Somehow, based on her reread, she suspects two people from the bf lynch and two people who weren't there, who she hadn't said she was going to reread, without connecting that to anything at all. Admittedly, these posts were two hours apart - plenty of time for her brain to move on. But I certainly found it interesting and inconsistent.

[Golden]

You gotta risk it to get the biscuit.

You stole my line.

I don't know if baddies can transfer items around between teamies, but my guess is that the vault keeps papers safe from thieves.

I don't think so:

How Items Work

Some items can be used to confer benefits, some cannot. Some items will be consumed when used, some will not. Most items can be stolen. When someone is lynched, all of the items they possess go to the people who voted for them, in order. So the first vote gets the first item, etc. When someone is NKed, whoever performed the kill gets the item. Items may not be voluntarily traded between players.

Transfer and traded are two different things. So I would say it could be possible for a teammate to give an item to put in the safe.

I'm baffled as to why the stock certificate would start a fire. Why would anyone want to burn stock? Unless the stock market crashes.

I'm off to bed but I hope tomorrow doesn't find the whole city burned down.

And there is this, where LK is the only one who brings up the idea that transferring and trading are two different things. At the time I thought this was a really good point that went overlooked (actually, LK, if you are civilian, I think your posts as a whole are really good content that is being overlooked - and you are right that if I wasn't silenced I would have been talking about them). But who would be in the best place to have the idea an item might be able to be transferred between teammates? A mafia or a celestial, I would have thought, but see post one for why LK cannot be a celestial. No way anyone in the celestial team would be trying to make themselves out to be mafia and a potential threat.

[Golden]

I'm assuming that Golden has been silenced because I can't imagine him being this quiet for this long given his day one posts. I'm rather bummed if that's the case because I was interested to hear what he had to say. I feel he would have at least commented on my previous post because everyone else seems to be ignoring it. I would expect that from mafia but not everyone can be that. Granted it wasn't a super helpful post but no comments at all? Really? Except Zomberella heeding my warning.

And lastly, this. First person to note I was silenced, which took a while frankly considering how prolific I am. I'm not sure what point I'm making with that, other than I found it noteworthy, especially as LK and I have never played with each other before (as far as I'm aware).

[Golden]

SVS - maybe Golden can summarise the thread on my behalf

Epi - maybe Golden can build my case on LK on my behalf

Anyone else want to buy my legal services?

[rabbit8]

SVS - maybe Golden can summarise the thread on my behalf

Epi - maybe Golden can build my case on LK on my behalf

Anyone else want to buy my legal services?

Why? You work pro bono.

[Golden]

Dammit rabbit, don't tell everyone.

Ok rabbit, what do you think about those posts about LK.

[rabbit8]

I want to hear why she suspects me before I say anything bad about her. I don't want the No U argument thrown in my face. She suspected me, I want to know why.

[Golden]

Fair enough.

[Turnip Head]

I am interested to see how this plays out.

[LizKeen]

I'm so very sorry I missed today. My kids are on spring break and I was just epically busy today and I left without my cell phone so I missed the vote. TBH, I'm not sure how I would have voted as anything I said about SVS doesn't seem to hold water with anyone else but at the same time I warned about an easy lynch target so I wouldn't have voted MM either. I've spent the last 2+ hours just catching up on today and making notes.

Current thoughts highlighted:

And I believe Zomba could be bad, too. But the thread went this way I was hoping to get a thread consensus before people started voting. I would have been OK with a Zomba lynch, too.

Why didn't you say this before people started voting?

And while we're talking about it, I really doubt that that's what the bottle does. I think it's more likely that Epi was targeted not by an item, but by a power from the baddie camp. Probably something like this:

Macleish MacPherson - The Crooked Doctor - Can dispense medicine that does a variety of unsavory and often illegal things.

I wish I'd been here today to call this out immediately. I knew for a fact the doctor had nothing to do with it because of what I "heard" during the night. I didn't have any knowledge of what MM did or didn't do but I knew it wasn't the doctor. I don't know why you would think MM was just flat out lying. Seems risky. Especially as he didn't have a lot of people trying to help him all that much.

@ Liz Keen - Did you send a curse to my computer? I had a great big post all set up on MP and then my laptop just blinked off for no reason.

Sorry it happened to you too. But no, I save all my curses for people I dislike. Like exes and such. :P

10 bucks that Zomba really is the Millionaire.

I'm bummed that I only got a part of a convo before my ear tubes were stolen because my initial thought was the mafia was going to try and set her up for a Day 3 lynch. But after some thought it's also possible they were going to try and get enough suspicion on her to get some votes for power but try and steer the lynch towards someone else. I had a specific reason for telling her to watch who she put her vote on. The fact she didn't vote anyone is either for the reason she said or because I gave her that advice and mafia decided to switch tactics given what I heard. Either way I would think it prudent to not vote her yet.

Voting MM, because it's an easy enough choice.

Really? And noone questioned this?

OK, so now we need to pick another street.

I'm glad we didn't waste the Archer street opportunity (thanks LizKeen). No one was focussed on agreeing a question to ask the Chinese man, and I wasn't sure if we were going to get anything. Instead, I think we got something which sort of suggested that the celestials are as harmless as they look.

I'm gonna vote 22nd street again, since I think the police station might be a good place to get intel on the mafia.

I really don't understand why I was the only one who questioned Mr. Fung (Other than Epi, who insulted him). Talk about people not reading the thread.

I asked that question more to make sure the mafia wouldn't gain more power if they gained the items than anything else.

I also note LizKeens ear horns told her we should avoid an easy lynch.

I have to say, I interpreted that as being a reference to either a) SVS (based on beas point at the start of the night that the will created a target on her back) or b) Zombs (because she really did seem like an easy target). They were the people who looked like easy lynches to me.

I'm not sure how the ear horns could warn against ANY easy lynch, since you never know what the town will do the next day and who might see a lynch train against them. So my assumption is that the person giving the message (be it player or host) had someone specific in mind they were looking to protect.

I overheard a mafia conversation, of that I'm quite sure. (It wasn't a direct message to me) I wasn't referencing anyone in particular because I didn't have a name, other than Zomba's and it wasn't in reference to voting her today. Just trying to make sure people would give careful thought to who they voted. As there's only two roles I see that could have stolen them from me I'm hoping they get more detailed info.

Yes, I have other thoughts.

I'm scared to know what rabbit thinks about.

No, I've decided I'm going to try to be brief:

In The Legend of Zelda, LizKeen was an important civilian role, and lasted most of the game. (Okay, she was evil, but this was a reverse game, where Ganon and his minions were civilians and Link, Zelda, and the Old Man were bad. Zola was independent, if you must know).

In 80 posts, LizKeen never once put together a case like she did against S~V~S. So it was strange for me to see this monster. I was already convinced MM was bad though, so I didn't publicize my reaction at the time.

LizKeen is going after the wrong person, knows it, and came up with some weak reasons.

I think I died like Day 4 and I was so completely lost as it was my first game in a very long time. (Hence my current signature) While not feeling superhero confident this game I am trying to be a bit more bold as I was of no use in Zelda. You were wrong about MM but find it odd I went after someone else? I don't know why everyone assumes I know I'm wrong so much. Have I played enough with any of you to really know that? At least I'm participating.

(I've decided to split this up into different, discrete thoughts)

So, here are just some things I've note I've seen from LizKeen. I honestly haven't decided whether or not the sum total is something that pings me. What I will say is, LizKeen is bringing original ideas to the thread, which as a concept reads civilian to me. But, on the other hand, some of the original ideas she has brought do ping me a little.

So are the celestial a separate team? Mafia? If so I'm not really keen on blindly following bf as he could be trying to gain more power for them if he is in fact not mafia. On the other hand if he's on to something about a mafia I'm not opposed to giving some thought to who he thinks may be. I'd feel a little more comfortable about voting a baddie who perhaps wouldn't give an unconfirmed civvie more power though.

LizKeen suggests bf could be a celestial trying to gain power for them. Interesting. As far as I can recall, LK is the only one to suggest the celestials have been anything other than complete civilian. She later followed this up by asking this question of Mr Fung:


I answered this above in this post. And as this is only my second game here I wasn't sure if there was two mafia or not. I asked llama after I posted that question about them and found out they weren't.

Mr. Fung, do you know if the ivory, jade and amber would be dangerous if they were in the hands of the wrong team?

Which was answered by llama in his host post to say no.

It does demonstrate, to me, that LK's concern and interest in whether or not the celestials were bad has been consistent. But who is it that might be most worried about whether or not the celestials are a threat?? And... the way these were phrased interests me. Would they be dangerous in the hands of 'the wrong team'... not the mafia. Not the celestials. Nothing that needs to raise an eyebrow, but something that gets her the answer she wants. I feel as though I could see this being a mafia fishing to see if the celestials were a threat to them.

I answered this above in this post. And as this is only my second game here I wasn't sure if there was two mafia or not. I asked llama after I posted that question about them and found out they weren't.

I'm going back and re-reading (a task I dread) everyone bf was suspicious of so he won't have died in vain. The mafia would have most definitely wanted him so and I'd say there's at least one if not more of you in those 8 votes. Black Rock is off the hook obviously and I'm giving Zomb the benefit of the doubt now so that at least narrows it down to 6 for me.

LK thinks there are probably baddies hiding in the bf lynch. She narrows it down to 6. She says she will reread them. But then, after her reread:

I have been rereading since my last post and had several posts I had quoted and commented on up to page 15 and then screwed up and lost it all. I'll have to start again tomorrow. Based on what I had reread I would say my current suspicions are SVS, rabbit, LongCon and Vompatti. But I'll have to go into that further tomorrow because it's really late and I'm tired.

She picks four people. Here are the bf voters:

blindfaeth
8
S~V~S (7), Dom (8), rabbit8 (9), Epignosis (10), birdwithteeth11 (13), Zomberella12 (15), Elohcin (16), Black Rock (20)
40%

No LC or Vompatti. Somehow, based on her reread, she suspects two people from the bf lynch and two people who weren't there, who she hadn't said she was going to reread, without connecting that to anything at all. Admittedly, these posts were two hours apart - plenty of time for her brain to move on. But I certainly found it interesting and inconsistent.

After I reread I developed new thoughts. After I lost 2 long posts I said screw it and decided to focus on one person. I'm still not convinced 100% of that persons civviness but it's a new day, a lot has happened and there's a lot more to think about. I'm sure there's mafia in the bf lynch, as in the MM lynch obviously. I've gone back and forth on Long Con and I'm not feeling particularly good about Vompatti based on her posts.

It is interesting I've become a target after overhearing the mafia though. If I become an easy lynch target today it won't surprise me.

And there is this, where LK is the only one who brings up the idea that transferring and trading are two different things. At the time I thought this was a really good point that went overlooked (actually, LK, if you are civilian, I think your posts as a whole are really good content that is being overlooked - and you are right that if I wasn't silenced I would have been talking about them). But who would be in the best place to have the idea an item might be able to be transferred between teammates? A mafia or a celestial, I would have thought, but see post one for why LK cannot be a celestial. No way anyone in the celestial team would be trying to make themselves out to be mafia and a potential threat.

I was actually surprised noone else brought up the transferring/trading thing. It was one of several reasons I found it frustrating you were silenced because I thought you would have been one to bring it up as well the Mr. Fung questions. And no, I'm not a celestial, I wouldn't have needed to ask the question if I was.

I'm assuming that Golden has been silenced because I can't imagine him being this quiet for this long given his day one posts. I'm rather bummed if that's the case because I was interested to hear what he had to say. I feel he would have at least commented on my previous post because everyone else seems to be ignoring it. I would expect that from mafia but not everyone can be that. Granted it wasn't a super helpful post but no comments at all? Really? Except Zomberella heeding my warning.

And lastly, this. First person to note I was silenced, which took a while frankly considering how prolific I am. I'm not sure what point I'm making with that, other than I found it noteworthy, especially as LK and I have never played with each other before (as far as I'm aware).

I'm also surprised I'm the first one to notice as you had been very prolific before that. But as I said, based on your posts before Day 2, I thought it odd you hadn't said anything.

SVS - maybe Golden can summarise the thread on my behalf

Epi - maybe Golden can build my case on LK on my behalf

Anyone else want to buy my legal services?

Not me!

I want to hear why she suspects me before I say anything bad about her. I don't want the No U argument thrown in my face. She suspected me, I want to know why.

Rabbit, it's going to be tomorrow night before I start in with suspects again because I want to have all the info I can before I start working on it. This game is so epically time-consuming. (Speaking of which could discussion of sports and music be put in O/T green so we know it's not game related? Lest I start inundating the thread with youtube vidoes of my current favorite singer, Hozier.

[Golden]

LK - fair enough answers. Like I said, I'm by no means convinced you are bad, in fact you are playing something that looks a little like a quiet version of my civvie game, in many ways. But I hope you can see why, looking back, those things collectively give me pause.

I had no idea epi would have the same person in mind to talk about, although that was quite funny. I don't think SVS would be a good way to vote, but I have no insight on whether or not you building cases is a genuine part of your game. I'm not sure I buy 'I hosted her once' as a persuasive argument that epi does either, honestly.

And I would have been engaging you on what questions to ask Mr Fung and on the transferring/trading distinction and on other things besides. Your posts have consistently made me think and want to respond.

[Golden]

Also, with regards to the music thing, it's sometimes hard to make a distinction as to what is on topic and off topic, but a lot of that convo was on topic.