Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]

#1901

And how did you get arrested? MM was the police chief.

#1902

Yeah, Liz, I completely overlooked the reference to Michigan Street until just now... I'm assuming, then, that the post is only present because we voted for Michigan St. Which changes my perspective a little. I mean, Michigan St still might have empowered the baddies to write a story in the paper, though. It's not ruling it out.

But, zombs isn't wrong... I've been heavily invested in this case, and even I can see it's built on a house of cards. They are good cards, though.

But, frankly, your continued focus on SVS bothers me. So let me tell you a story (in the next post)

#1903

LizKeen wrote:And how did you get arrested? MM was the police chief.

I was arrested on Night 1 and was in jail all of Day 2. MM was lynched Day 2.

#1904

LizKeen wrote:Are you going to respond to me?

Is this to me? I will answer any question you have.

#1905

My first ever game of mafia, I was a civ and I played with SVS. It was a tough game, like this one, where we went a few lynches without finding a baddie and paranoia was at a high. So I built a case. It was such a solid case. It expounded on the links between the three people I thought were mafia. It focussed on their attitudes and many other things. It really looked so good.

Not one of them was bad.

The reason I had felt that way was, in part, because SVS went aggressively after people who I thought were civ all along, and got them lynched. She also tended to come after me, even though I was civ. I thought this must be bad SVS. I made this mistake three consecutive times... the first three times I played with SVS.

Then, I came to realise, SVS just believes in what she believes in. She goes hard for it - something I could completely relate to. And sometimes she is wrong. I honestly don't think we are seeing baddie SVS... its the exact SVS I've seen so many times before, suspected so many times before, and been wrong about.

(by the way though, I found the case I made on SVS in my first ever game the other day, and it was what made me think I needed to come back and play more mafia, so it was good for something).

#1906

I genuinely believe that SVS's motivations on day one were 1) she thought BF was bad 2) she wanted to get the will into civ hands so that she could say what the will really did if he had been lying about it. And don't forget, when she voted for bf, he hadn't named you yet.

#1907

Golden wrote:My first ever game of mafia, I was a civ and I played with SVS. It was a tough game, like this one, where we went a few lynches without finding a baddie and paranoia was at a high. So I built a case. It was such a solid case. It expounded on the links between the three people I thought were mafia. It focussed on their attitudes and many other things. It really looked so good.

Not one of them was bad.

The reason I had felt that way was, in part, because SVS went aggressively after people who I thought were civ all along, and got them lynched. She also tended to come after me, even though I was civ. I thought this must be bad SVS. I made this mistake three consecutive times... the first three times I played with SVS.

Then, I came to realise, SVS just believes in what she believes in. She goes hard for it - something I could completely relate to. And sometimes she is wrong. I honestly don't think we are seeing baddie SVS... its the exact SVS I've seen so many times before, suspected so many times before, and been wrong about.

(by the way though, I found the case I made on SVS in my first ever game the other day, and it was what made me think I needed to come back and play more mafia, so it was good for something).

I can totally agree with this. I don't think SVS is a baddie. I think she might be a celestial, but as she pointed out, they are not bad. However, her case against me is not right. I am not bad either. We should team up rather than fight against each other.

linki - yes, I remember that she voted for BF before he named me. That's why I think she want's to get stuff so badly. Maybe she's lying and the will really does say that the holder gets tons of money when I die and it's some kind of win condition. That's just as likely as the baddies planting a last-ditch Zomba saving will reference in the paper. There has to be more than one will. Otherwise what would the lawyer be for?

#1908

I actually suspect noone can get anything from the will until the lawyer has had it and its been executed by the lawyer. Just a suspicion.

#1909

I don't want to vote for SVS. I want to vote for A Person.

@ Liz Keen - I've looked back through several days of your posts and I can't find where you asked me a question. I want to answer it for you though.

#1910

Zombarella wrote:I don't know where I'm going to put my vote and I need to decide. If I don't vote MM I will get all kinds of accusations about trying to save my supposed baddie friends, but if I do and MM flips civ, which I think he might, I'll be in trouble for that. I want to vote MP but no one else seems to want to do that right now. Maybe not voting at all will get me in the least amount of trouble. Maybe that's just what I have to do, not vote.

I actually thought you didn't vote because of my warning to be careful where you put your vote. I can't figure out why MM would have arrested you. You didn't vote him Day 1. I would have arrested someone who did to keep their vote off me.

Zombarella wrote:Oh by the way everyone, when I burned my worthless stock certificate the ashes spelled out the words "SVS makes up stuff". I don't know what it means but....something to think about.

I questioned you about this comment because it ticked me off tbqh, but I realize now it was in sarcasm orange.

#1911

Golden wrote:I actually suspect noone can get anything from the will until the lawyer has had it and its been executed by the lawyer. Just a suspicion.

That really would be a Llama-type caveat wouldn't it? Well, I didn't write the will. IF there's a second will, I didn't write that one either. I don't know anything about them and if I have money or anything else to give when I die it will be complete news to me.

The baddies aren't going to NK the quiet civs. They are going to NK the civs that are playing (by that token, an NK on SVS last night makes sense). If we lynch all the vocal civs and leave only the baddies and the civs that aren't playing, then we are for sure going to loose. Disagree with me if you like, but it's frustrating to have to play this way.

#1912

LizKeen wrote:
Zombarella wrote:I don't know where I'm going to put my vote and I need to decide. If I don't vote MM I will get all kinds of accusations about trying to save my supposed baddie friends, but if I do and MM flips civ, which I think he might, I'll be in trouble for that. I want to vote MP but no one else seems to want to do that right now. Maybe not voting at all will get me in the least amount of trouble. Maybe that's just what I have to do, not vote.

I actually thought you didn't vote because of my warning to be careful where you put your vote. I can't figure out why MM would have arrested you. You didn't vote him Day 1. I would have arrested someone who did to keep their vote off me.

Zombarella wrote:Oh by the way everyone, when I burned my worthless stock certificate the ashes spelled out the words "SVS makes up stuff". I don't know what it means but....something to think about.
I questioned you about this comment because it ticked me off tbqh, but I realize now it was in sarcasm orange.

Yeah....sarcastic orange...

I don't know why MM arrested me. He thought I was bad for awhile and maybe he wanted to keep me locked up. It was really crippling. I couldn't do my night PM that night either.

#1913

I think there is real merit to the possibility that the baddies might be laughing at us as all the louder people cut each other down. I would certainly be willing to consider a vote against:

A person, or
Vompatti, or
possibly canuck, or
maybe even Elo, who seems a lot quieter in content here than in RR.

If the criteria is who could be hiding.

#1914

I'm actually feeling fairly good about both you and lizkeen now.

#1915

Golden wrote:I'm actually feeling fairly good about both you and lizkeen now.

Thank you Golden. I think that you are civ because you were silenced.

#1916

I wouldn't presume I wouldn't do that if I was bad! But I am civ.

I actually think (although it's the kind of thing I know I shouldn't think too deeply about) that the baddies may have wanted me to come out swinging against someone the next day - possibly sophie who had said 'shut up golden' in jest the night before so that she could catch up, maybe dom who I'd had a good spat with. So I thought the best thing to do is ignore the why and just assume it's because I'm loud and because sometimes I am a threat.

#1917

That is why we killed you in RR. We knew that you were going to figure us out really soon and we needed to kill you before you did. I think that this is happening in this game too. I think that might be how the baddies play in a lot of games (even though I only have the one game to reference).

#1918

Thank you, but to be honest I have not cleared you yet, mafia could silence one of their own. And as there's no way to verify Zombarella's story I can't do that yet either. Frankly, I was ready to vote for her based on thinking she had info on SVS she didn't share when I was posting my suspicions on SVS until I realized it was sarcasm.

I'm in a royal quandary as to what to do because I know there's very few people who are going to get votes and I feel like it's going to be me or you Zomb, but I don't feel good enough to put a vote on you either. And I'm most definitely not self-voting. I have no problem going after a low poster but I don't think that's going to get any traction today either.

#1919

You had that right, too, zombs... I already had every one of you in my sights lol, even though I may not have called out some of you yet.

Unfortunately, this game... genuinely no idea. I haven't been able to find an in yet, like I did with Aces. Which is why I actually think your theory that they could be sitting back makes a bit of sense.

@LK - I think we can get traction for someone other than you or zombs. I think it can be done.

#1920

I am going to vote for A Person right now. I don't want to lynch another active civ player, I'm going to go for someone who the baddies won't NK - either because he/she is one of them or because he/she is not playing and isn't a threat to them.

*votes A Person*

#1921

There's 5 mafia, always some people who miss the vote and people who just seem to go with the highest vote getter so the Millionaire doesn''t get more power. I don't see how it's going to go any other way.

I'm going to watch The Black List and gel on this. Maybe the other Liz Keen will give me some insight. :P

#1922

Well that's two votes that aren't for me. So Yeah!

#1923

LizKeen wrote:There's 5 mafia, always some people who miss the vote and people who just seem to go with the highest vote getter so the Millionaire doesn''t get more power. I don't see how it's going to go any other way.

I'm going to watch The Black List and gel on this. Maybe the other Liz Keen will give me some insight. :P

BTW - You are the only other person I've met who watches the Black List. It really is a great show. I covet Liz's hair.

#1924

I watch the blacklist

#1925

Zombarella wrote:I am going to vote for A Person right now. I don't want to lynch another active civ player, I'm going to go for someone who the baddies won't NK - either because he/she is one of them or because he/she is not playing and isn't a threat to them.

*votes A Person*

Low posters?

Do you have any actual suspicions? When you came in last night you tried pushing a suspicion of me, and it didn't take; do you suspect anyone?

I trust Golden's judgment; had I listened to him earlier, I would have backed off of BF. I am going to reread this AM and consider whether to listen to him now.

#1926

[quote="Zombarella"]BTW - You are the only other person I've met who watches the Black List. It really is a great show. I covet Liz's hair.[/quote]

[quote="Golden"]I watch the blacklist[/quote]

I covet Tom Keen. I used to think he was nerdy but now that he's a bad boy he's kinda hot. I don't know anyone who watches it but you two.

SVS, you must be getting up as I go to bed.

I'm really stuck between a rock and a hard place here. If I don't vote Zombarella and she gets lynched and flips bad then I'm going to be accused of being her teammate. If I vote her and she flips civvie then I'm helping lynch another civvie. This really sucks.

#1927

Whats your location, LK?

#1928

Golden wrote:Whats your location, LK?

Illinois, and yourself?

#1929

I guess I'll have to vote in the morning

I don't see myself voting Zombs at this point. I'm definitely not voting LK or SVS. I'm open to other directions if people go in another direction and can convince me.

In the mean time, Zombs has said something which I have always agree with and still do. Baddies are very good at hiding by being quiet. I remember hosting a game (west wing) where the baddie team were pretty quiet and just let the civs all pick each other off, and won without a single one of them ever being lynched. They deserved their win, but it was a reasonably easy way to achieve it. In the mean time, if people are civ, they are civs that are very unlikely to be nked.

I'm happy to give people who subbed in a pass, but I'm very comfortable lynching someone at this stage who has been very quiet and been here since the start, especially in the absence of anyone I can see as clearly bad.

New Zealand - this doesn't really seem like it should be bed time in Illinois. But it definitely should be mine!

#1930

LizKeen wrote:[quote="Zombarella"]BTW - You are the only other person I've met who watches the Black List. It really is a great show. I covet Liz's hair.

Golden wrote:I watch the blacklist

I covet Tom Keen. I used to think he was nerdy but now that he's a bad boy he's kinda hot. I don't know anyone who watches it but you two.

SVS, you must be getting up as I go to bed.

I'm really stuck between a rock and a hard place here. If I don't vote Zombarella and she gets lynched and flips bad then I'm going to be accused of being her teammate. If I vote her and she flips civvie then I'm helping lynch another civvie. This really sucks.[/quote]

I don't think I'm voting for her.

I just read her posts from last night again mainly for tone, and I don't think she has BTSC. One thing I know about Zomba from BTS with her her first 2 games is that she takes advice well. If you tell her she said something she should not have, she works her way back around it. Some people don't; you tell them in BTS that they are making a mistake, and they kinda blow you off. Not Zomba. And no where in her posts did I see that kind of influence. The only point where she backed off was influence from the thread.

She said a lot of things I think more experienced players would have told her not to say. The No U start, and the low poster finish are things a bad team would have told her was a mistake. I think this is her first non-BTS game.

I think parts of my theory are right, but the part where it points to Zomba being bad probably are not. I have to read back some more. I want to reread LC, and Bass.

#1931

Bass = MP, right?

#1932

Golden wrote:Bass = MP, right?

Yup. And the very few things he's said since subbing in don't totally sit right with me.

And I really am feeling that the silence/insanify thing re Liz were more likely to be a frame than otherwise.

#1933

Yeah Liz, I am. I leave for work at 7, and I like to have a few relaxing hours before work, it puts me in a better frame of mind during the day than if I jump out of bed and run out the door, dashing through the shower in between like I used to do when i was younger. Walk the dog, play some Mafia, whatever. So I get up about 4:30 on weekdays.

#1934

Golden wrote:
New Zealand - this doesn't really seem like it should be bed time in Illinois. But it definitely should be mine!

Did I forget to mention I'm a vampire?

S~V~S wrote:Yeah Liz, I am. I leave for work at 7, and I like to have a few relaxing hours before work, it puts me in a better frame of mind during the day than if I jump out of bed and run out the door, dashing through the shower in between like I used to do when i was younger. Walk the dog, play some Mafia, whatever. So I get up about 4:30 on weekdays.

I'm a horrible insomniac. Okay so I'm not a vampire..but it sounded sexy.

I do have to attempt to get some sleep though and I'm going to have to vote now or miss the vote again. I wish I could feel confident I'm not going to get lynched but I just don't and I won't be here before the vote to defend myself anymore. So I feel I don't have much choice but to vote Zomberella. If you're civvie I hope you understand, but I hope you're not so this isn't a total mistake.

#1935

Epi, rather than asking you questions, can you link me in a vowelfree fashion to your thoughts on LC and MovingBass?

I see TH has voted for LC. I agree with Golden about Zomba, I don't love what she's saying, but when I really thought about it, I don't think she has BTSC.

#1936

If votes are happening now, then I'm going to vote for Epig. No one gives a damn about my case against him so I may or may not try to convince you any more that he's a baddie. You all can go and look for low posters or whatever, when you want to catch a baddie, then read my posts and see what is pretty damn clear to me.

*votes Epig*

#1937

I can't stop. You people.

#1938

I was never on board with the LizKeen case, so I'm not voting there.
I had strongly considered voting Z, but I think SVS' assessment of her not likely having BTSC this game is pretty sound, so I won't vote there.
I thought Epi's case on LK was....not convincing, but I'm not sure why a bad Epi would push so hard against a player so early....considering a vote there.
LC is LC and I have no particular reason to think he's bad right now, but I don't know if I've ever read LC correctly. I'm not voting there unless something really compelling comes up.
TH seems like civ TH to me.
I think that MP/Bass is an interesting spot to look. I will reread there and maybe consider a vote.
I would consider a vote for Vomps.

#1939

S~V~S wrote:
LizKeen wrote:[quote="Zombarella"]BTW - You are the only other person I've met who watches the Black List. It really is a great show. I covet Liz's hair.

Golden wrote:I watch the blacklist
I covet Tom Keen. I used to think he was nerdy but now that he's a bad boy he's kinda hot. I don't know anyone who watches it but you two.

SVS, you must be getting up as I go to bed.

I'm really stuck between a rock and a hard place here. If I don't vote Zombarella and she gets lynched and flips bad then I'm going to be accused of being her teammate. If I vote her and she flips civvie then I'm helping lynch another civvie. This really sucks.

I don't think I'm voting for her.

I just read her posts from last night again mainly for tone, and I don't think she has BTSC. One thing I know about Zomba from BTS with her her first 2 games is that she takes advice well. If you tell her she said something she should not have, she works her way back around it. Some people don't; you tell them in BTS that they are making a mistake, and they kinda blow you off. Not Zomba. And no where in her posts did I see that kind of influence. The only point where she backed off was influence from the thread.

She said a lot of things I think more experienced players would have told her not to say. The No U start, and the low poster finish are things a bad team would have told her was a mistake. I think this is her first non-BTS game.

I think parts of my theory are right, but the part where it points to Zomba being bad probably are not. I have to read back some more. I want to reread LC, and Bass.[/quote]

So no real experience player would tell her, fuck it you have so much heat be as obvious as you can?
If they did not I can't see how the mafia wins so much around here as people claim.
You know, because like now it gets gullible players to believe it.

I think we have a likely baddies with votes now and maybe a celestial two with the way the votes are splitting unlike any of the first lynches.

#1940

A lot of speculation going on, and a lot of assumptions. In an effort to bring some clarity let me say the following:

Not everything in the newspaper means something, but nothing in it doesn't mean anything.

#1941

Canucklehead wrote:I thought Epi's case on LK was....not convincing, but I'm not sure why a bad Epi would push so hard against a player so early....considering a vote there.
LC is LC and I have no particular reason to think he's bad right now, but I don't know if I've ever read LC correctly. I'm not voting there unless something really compelling comes up.

That's all you have to say about Epig? What about other cases that have been made against him?

#1942

LizKeen wrote:[quote="Zombarella"]BTW - You are the only other person I've met who watches the Black List. It really is a great show. I covet Liz's hair.

Golden wrote:I watch the blacklist

I covet Tom Keen. I used to think he was nerdy but now that he's a bad boy he's kinda hot. I don't know anyone who watches it but you two.

SVS, you must be getting up as I go to bed.

I'm really stuck between a rock and a hard place here. If I don't vote Zombarella and she gets lynched and flips bad then I'm going to be accused of being her teammate. If I vote her and she flips civvie then I'm helping lynch another civvie. This really sucks.[/quote]

As a civvie you dont have to think in "what looks good", you have to say what you think and claim whatever you think even if it goes against whatever the rest of the thread thinks.
If they wanna lynch you for it, its they loss, they would lynch a civvie. But maybe your thoughts would be revisited later and they could help the civvies.
At least thats how i play when im civ. Thats why im usually a suspicion every game, and thats why y always tend to survive till the late stages of the game, cause the baddies know they can bring me up for suspicion.

The ONLY times i care about "how things look" and try to really appear civvie, is when im bad. As a baddie i try to be consistent and not to say things "out of tune".

I think the best thing to do for civvies is speak their mind even if they get super suspected because of it

Btw, where is daniel faraday??

#1943

Canucklehead wrote:I was never on board with the LizKeen case, so I'm not voting there.
I had strongly considered voting Z, but I think SVS' assessment of her not likely having BTSC this game is pretty sound, so I won't vote there.
I thought Epi's case on LK was....not convincing, but I'm not sure why a bad Epi would push so hard against a player so early....considering a vote there.
LC is LC and I have no particular reason to think he's bad right now, but I don't know if I've ever read LC correctly. I'm not voting there unless something really compelling comes up.
TH seems like civ TH to me.
I think that MP/Bass is an interesting spot to look. I will reread there and maybe consider a vote.
I would consider a vote for Vomps.

What about dom?

#1944

S~V~S wrote:
Golden wrote:Bass = MP, right?
Yup. And the very few things he's said since subbing in don't totally sit right with me.

And I really am feeling that the silence/insanify thing re Liz were more likely to be a frame than otherwise.

I would love to answer any questions you have. I just want to say I don't think I will be able to answer questions about what MP said.

#1945

Is Dom the one you are considering voting for, Sophie? What do you think of Epig's suspicious behaviour regarding the MM lynch?

#1946

Wow, that was a lot to take in. By the end of it all it seems like most don't know where they are voting. I think there are a lot of assumptions this game, I don't know what to make of all of it. If Zomba is not a baddie then I am at a loss. I still can't read her posts as if she were a civ. I might have to go on my gut today but I will do some rereading before I settle on my vote.

#1947

Did Vomps give a reason for his TH vote? I'm used to Vomps being kind of out there as a player, but I'm just a little surprised he would vote a silenced player without giving a reason. (Unless I missed the vote. There has been a lot going on)

#1948

@ fingersplints I checked Vomps posts and there is no vote post for TH.

@Liz I'm just going to give up on getting you to answer those cases. If Epi or Golden want to push it they can. Their posts are easy to find if you just look at their posts.

@Zomba thank you for your responses. They made a difference in how I'm feeling about you at the moment which is to say I can see you coming from a civ point of view.

#1949

Sophie wrote:
LizKeen wrote:[quote="Zombarella"]BTW - You are the only other person I've met who watches the Black List. It really is a great show. I covet Liz's hair.

Golden wrote:I watch the blacklist
I covet Tom Keen. I used to think he was nerdy but now that he's a bad boy he's kinda hot. I don't know anyone who watches it but you two.

SVS, you must be getting up as I go to bed.

I'm really stuck between a rock and a hard place here. If I don't vote Zombarella and she gets lynched and flips bad then I'm going to be accused of being her teammate. If I vote her and she flips civvie then I'm helping lynch another civvie. This really sucks.

As a civvie you dont have to think in "what looks good", you have to say what you think and claim whatever you think even if it goes against whatever the rest of the thread thinks.
If they wanna lynch you for it, its they loss, they would lynch a civvie. But maybe your thoughts would be revisited later and they could help the civvies.
At least thats how i play when im civ. Thats why im usually a suspicion every game, and thats why y always tend to survive till the late stages of the game, cause the baddies know they can bring me up for suspicion.

The ONLY times i care about "how things look" and try to really appear civvie, is when im bad. As a baddie i try to be consistent and not to say things "out of tune".

I think the best thing to do for civvies is speak their mind even if they get super suspected because of it

Btw, where is daniel faraday??[/quote]

I am here, it's been a busy week. And today is Early Release, which means I won't be back on here for the rest of the day.

It seems like everything right now is based on behind the scenes shenanigans, assumptions, and taking the word of people, so it's hard to pin anything down. I think Zomba is the most likely to illuminate us though, so I will *vote Zombarella* and if she comes back as a baddie, as I suspect, that will make things clearer.

#1950

Long Con wrote:
Canucklehead wrote:I thought Epi's case on LK was....not convincing, but I'm not sure why a bad Epi would push so hard against a player so early....considering a vote there.
LC is LC and I have no particular reason to think he's bad right now, but I don't know if I've ever read LC correctly. I'm not voting there unless something really compelling comes up.
That's all you have to say about Epig? What about other cases that have been made against him?

Yes, that is all I have to say about Epi right now. None of the cases brought against him have stuck in my mind enough for me to comment on them.

Who iced Dom?